Why Unpolished Reels Win: An Instagram Growth Strategy for Business

0:00I'm Mari Smith, known as the premier Facebook marketing expert, aka queen of Facebook, and this is actually my 14th time because I have been at every single social media marketing world. There is no amount of sophisticated technology that can ever take the place of live, in person, IRL, heart to heart, face to face. You could very well meet some of your best friends, clients, joint venture partners, alliances, have opportunities, podcasts, speaking engagements, it's extraordinary. So come on in for this beautiful, in-person experience. Get tickets at socialmediamarketingworld.info.

0:38Welcome to the Social Media Marketing Podcast, helping you navigate the social media jungle. And now, here is your host, Michael Stelzner. Hello, hello, hello. Thank you so much for joining me for the Social Media Marketing Podcast brought to you by Social Media Examiner. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner, and this is the podcast for marketers and business owners who want more exposure, more leads, and more sales. By the way, if you're new to the show, be sure to follow us on whatever app you're listening to us on so you don't miss any of our future content. Let's now transition over to this week's interview with Shannon McKinstry.

1:12Helping you to simplify your social safari. Here is this week's expert guide. Today, we'll explore what's working with Instagram reels for business. My special guest is an Instagram growth strategist who helps business owners, build a loyal following that converts. She's host of the Good Content Podcast, and I strongly recommend it. Her membership program is The Reels Lab. She's returning to Social Media Marketing World 2027. Shannon McKinstry, welcome back to the show. How are you doing today? I'm doing great, Michael. Thanks for having me again. I'm so excited. It's super awesome to have you back.

1:47So let's start with what's one of the biggest misconceptions you see when it comes to Instagram Reels and short form video in general? Yeah, in general right now, for sure, I think is the unpolisher content. And I know that sounds backwards because they're like, no, I'm supposed to have the nice camera and all these edits. And I'm like, yes, you still need to care about how you're editing and things like that. But I really believe if you think about it, polished content kind of brings a distance between you and the viewer. Almost like when we turn on the television, it's very polished, right? When we're on these devices, we want to feel like we're talking with a friend.

2:22So when it's a little more unpolished, meaning you're in your car, perhaps, or you're just filming with your iPhone, you don't have to have the fancy tools, the fancy, all the things. I mean, a lot of my content that's gone viral is just six second video with some text on top. And as long as that text resonates, it works. So I think the biggest misconception is just, you know, perfect. We want perfect, the best idea, the best hook. And a lot of it just takes testing. So just encouraging people to, even if it's not perfect, even if it's unpolished, throw it out there and then collect data and learn from it.

2:59Why do you think the raw and unpolished, to use your phrase, why is that working now? I think it's working because, well, obviously the trust deficit we're in. And I think we have a lot of people who got burned by people they followed or invested in. And all of this stuff was kind of really polished and perfect as far as marketing and advertising goes. And so when we're looking at advertising, again, on a TV screen, it's very different than how we want to be marketed to on our phones. And now we're actually seeing that blurred a little bit too, right? We even see the Chipotle commercials with all the videos are of creators, right?

3:36And it's all vertical video and it's kind of fascinating. So I think we just are desperate for authenticity and desperate to feel like humans on the other side of the screen again, because there was a big push of value and education, which at the time that was great. And then just kind of lost the human side. And people just felt like they weren't connecting to the person they were following. So the more off the cuff and the more you let people in behind the scenes, the better. Love it. Okay. So if people do reels well, and the way we're going to talk about today, what's kind of waiting for them on the other side?

4:08What are some of the benefits? I mean, changing your life, to be honest. I mean, I have people that thought, oh, my niche is too boring or my life is not exciting. I'm like, neither is mine. and I'm home almost all during the week. It's just connection that we crave. So if you can figure out how to make people feel connected to you, it's game changing money opportunities. So whether it is, you know, your goal is to have more speak engagements or do local events, whatever it is, we are chronically online, but we're also, I feel like chronically online because we're scrolling so much looking for content that resonates with us.

4:45So when we find that person, we stick around. So, you know, creating content and it's like I've even said since I started doing social media management over 10 years ago was just, you know, building this community around your brand. And it's the same thing. Once you've built a community who's loyal and spreading the word about you, I mean, possibilities are endless. And even Gary Vee, I was talking about this reel with people the other day is how he's saying, start just posting random stuff. If you don't know what to post, post something random, a journey you're on. people love to root for other humans and follow along on them in the moment.

5:20So really, there's very low risk at this point. It's just throw it out there and see what happens. I have been experimenting with this and I'll probably bring this up throughout the interview, but this is why I'm so fascinated to have this interview with you. So before we get started with Reels in the way that we're going to talk about doing it today, is there any kind of foundation or basic stuff that we're going to build upon that may not be basic for my audience, but, but it is kind of like level setting mindset shifts or any of that kind of stuff we need to kind of talk about before we get into the house side of this.

5:54Yeah. I think again, like we just said, when all else fails and you feel stuck, what's a journey you're on, what's something you're learning. And it, that doesn't mean, okay, you're trading for a marathon. Well, now after the marathon, you're like, I don't want to talk about marathons anymore. That's fine. The days of having one tiny niche and having to stick to it are way gone. It's such an interest-based algorithm. Of course, you probably don't want to be posting something completely different every day unless that's your thing, right? There's tons of people we follow for way beyond what they do, sell, et cetera.

6:29So I think the main thing is just really understanding how we as humans are using these apps and why we're picking them up in the first place. And just understanding we, again, like I said, we just want to connect. So, and I hate saying hip, but it's like, sometimes a lot of people, I'm like, just forget everything you've learned because they've learned 10 different ways. And it's really like, at this point, we are in this random space right now where you can really monetize anything. I mean, a reel could go viral of, I know I've had reels go viral of my daughter putting sprinkles on her cake.

7:02And it still brings in followers and my ideal people, moms and people like that. So I think if you're stuck on what to post, or if you just want to experiment, if you're feeling stuck right now, because you're just like, I've been grinding so hard and nothing's sticking, I would just try to focus on a journey or something. I love saying, you know, this is a new thing I've been kind of experimenting, telling people to kind of help them help it click is if you walked into a room where you knew nobody, because that's kind of how we're scrolling Instagram. What's something you wish someone would ask you about?

7:32And maybe that's something you want to test out and start posting about. I love that. Are there some people who have maybe just, they're destined to not be able to do this because maybe the niche or the topic or the category that they talk about, or do you feel like this is something anyone can benefit from? I honestly think it's anyone. And I love it because, and there's even someone I met at Social Media Marketing World earlier this year, and she's killing it with an AI account. I mean, all her content, but they know it. It's like these fake characters and things. So even if you're introverted or a creative, he's like, I just want to be behind the scenes.

8:05As long as there's a, again, a message that resonates, we will follow along. But I think the biggest thing to know, if you want to do this and lock in and really do it without feeling burnt out is to know that there's so many ways to create content. I have clients who 90 % of their content is carousel posts. Very simple, simple carousel posts, no designs. They're not even made in Canva. They're just made in Instagram. And then I have clients who lean heavily on talk to camera and they're crushing it. So you don't have to create one specific type of content. You just have to make sure it's something that is easy for you to create because the easier it is to create, the more you're going to actually press posts.

8:44And I have someone that wrote me today and then said, Shannon, it took me three hours to edit this talk to camera reel. I don't have time. I was like, cool, don't do talks camera reels then. Like I get it. You know, so you can do B-roll with text. You can do photo dumps, just get in and focus on stories because stories we have to remember are a great way to bond. But yeah, I think that's hopefully that helps someone who's like, well, I heard you have to do this. No, it's all about what works for you best and what your audience wants. It's that perfect combo. And for the folks that are listening that say what I used to say, which is I'm a long form person, right?

9:17I used to say I'm a long form guy. I specialize in long interviews and the written word and all these long pieces of content. I can't, I don't, I won't. Well, the truth is that none of that is true. As of today, I'm like 60 days in to what is now a 90 day journey where I am committing to publishing every single day, a video that's anywhere from a minute and a half to three minutes long. So if this long form guy can do it, then I'm telling everybody who's listening, you can do it too. But it is a craft. It is a craft. And we're going to talk about the craft literally right now. So where do we start?

9:57So far, here's what we know. What we know is that you said anyone can do this. And that's a hallelujah moment for a lot of my audience. We also know that you said that you can just be yourself and authenticity is a trend and it is true. There's this whole thing called the yap challenge, which we've covered on this show before, where people are just talking to camera. All of that is true. However, it doesn't mean that if you just record, it's going to work. Right. So, so where do we actually start? Because we want ideally to get it right as fast as possible. Cause I love how you said it's like, we all kind of put ourselves like, this is, this is who I am.

10:36I'm, I'm a long form person and I would love to be a full-time creator and document my day and do vlogs. I don't have the patience for it. I've done a couple of vlogs. I'm like, how do they do this? I'm like, oh yeah, cause it's all they do. Right. So just know like there's other options, but I think the best thing to do to get started. And again, I'm not someone that's going to document a journey. Cause right now I'm like, that just sounds kind of like a lot of work for me personally. So what I would tell you, if you're kind of listening and you're in the same boat where you're like, actually, I'd kind of like to talk about what I'm really passionate about talking about, but I'm not on the journey of, I already know it.

11:07Like that's where I'm at. You got to find that thing where you're in. It's like expertise plus excitement or enthusiasm, if you will. That is the perfect combo. Cause again, it's that thing of like, what are you dying for someone to ask you about? Um, let's say you're, you love, I mean, there's this person and it's crazy. He has gone viral. I think he's grown over 200 ,000 followers in just a few months on Instagram, he picks a random topic, learns it, and then teaches it. And they're loving it. And I think he's a young, younger kid in his 20s. And people just love it. Because it's also that he wants to be an expert in a lot of stuff.

11:43And so he's on that journey. It's like that two for one special, but you can tell he's excited to teach us and things like that. But I know for me, I think the reason people resonate with my content is not that I'm an expert per se, but it's like that I'm also really excited and I'm constantly learning and studying. I'm not just like teaching from a podium, if you will. I tell us all the time people are like, oh, my niche is boring. I'm a lawyer. I'm an accountant. I'm like, okay, I don't want to read articles in your field. Can you just dumb down an article in 30 seconds and green screen it? I would love that because I'm not keeping up with this stuff.

12:17So even things like that, marketers too, go to Social Media Examiner, give us the 30 second spiel of Instagram's latest thing. again, that borrowing identity from other brands, talking about topics people are, you know, want to know about, they just don't have a time to learn it. And that's your expertise and excitement for that subject can come into play and make a huge difference. I love this. So we're really talking right now about the message, right? Because that's the big question. What is the message? What is the words? What is the theme that I'm going to talk about? And what I heard you say is there's a good chance that you developed some domain expertise from your years and years of doing whatever it is you do, or even for doing things for the company that you work for, if you're not positioning yourself as a thought leader, but you know stuff and you're enthusiastic about it, right?

13:01Like I know a lot about certain things that I'm not enthusiastic about. So let's talk about like why the enthusiasm and then let's talk about a little bit about like some examples, because like you've got some stuff and you, that you're doing and also some examples that you wanted to share. So first, why is enthusiasm so important? I know it sounds silly, but I've even talked about this to people and they're like, nope, totally get it. You can feel whether someone cares. And I even said something on threads the other day, like a lot of you guys were not excited to hit posts today. And we can tell, you know, something like that, like trying to be funny.

13:33But I was like, if you're not, I know for me, if I'm not feeling it that day, if I'm not excited to hit posts, I will not post it. Because in the past, I used to do that because I was like, I got to get something up. I got to get something up. And it would flop. And I was like, I feel like people can truly tell. we can feel the authenticity. Just like if you do want to start, if I all of a sudden was like, you know what guys, I'm going to show you guys this journey of, I don't know, I'm on the hunt for the best coffee shop in Raleigh, right? Which I would actually love to do. If I wasn't excited about finding the best coffee in Raleigh, you guys would, I mean, you would tell, and I wouldn't finish the series.

14:06I would probably stop halfway through and it's going to feel exhausting. And I tell everyone, if this is not fun to you, it's just going to suck. It's not going to be enjoyable. your people are going to feel it. And I hear people tell me all the time, we can tell how passionate you are. And I'm like, well, I appreciate that because I am in a very nerdy way, but I really do love that. I wouldn't be talking about social media marketing and Instagram every day if it didn't light me up. It's the first thing I think about when I wake up and go to bed is, Ooh, this idea came to mind, this hook came to mind.

14:33And it's like, that's truly what I'm excited about. So that's what I'll keep posting about. Tell us about the nitro bar. And then, And because this is an example of, I think a restaurant or something, I don't know, but tell us what they're doing. And then also tell us a little bit more specifically about some of the things that you're doing. Yes. So what I love about them and speaking of enthusiasm is you can tell the people that work there love to work there. Now, if they didn't. What is it exactly? Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. The Nitro Bar is a coffee shop, a very local coffee shop in Rhode Island. Now, what's cool though, is they sprinkle in the founder's story, which is brilliant about how she started this, maxed out a credit card to buy this coffee cart, right?

15:12Like didn't have any money, maxed this credit card. The coffee cart became a coffee shop and now they have ones in New York. And she's young. I want to say like late, probably early thirties. So it's also that, like I said, with the journey, she's got this perfect mix of, here's the journey of me opening this. Here's the journey of us opening another one, but also here's what it feels like to come from us. And here's what our employees are like. You immediately, if I walked in there today, I would be like, I've been here a million times, even though I've never stepped foot in the place. So what is she doing?

15:47Like, give us some examples just so people can like understand how they might do it if they happen to have a local business. Yes. So first things, and again, the reason she blew up and was able to open up, you know, larger one was because of her social media. And I know at the beginning, it was very much behind the scenes, you know, come serve coffee with me and what they brilliantly do every single week. And I look forward to it. It's, it's like, again, it's that series moment where you're like, Ooh, I get to see every week. They ask what was the most popular drink of the weekend. And then the employee looks it up, looks at the numbers and then, right.

16:21Oh, they make a little story out of it. Okay. Got it. And the other thing they do is they'll walk up and go, Hey, I'm feeling really whatever today, like an emotion. What would you make for me? So they put these employees on the spot. And they just make it exciting to debut new menus. And again, they sprinkle in the founders story at least once a week. So it's like once a week, and they do really cool drinks, right? They make them very obviously Instagram appealing, very fun colors and things like that. But like I said, you know, the staff, you know, the owner, you know, probably what your order is.

16:52And now there's a line down the block, because it's creating that experience. And I think we forgot to create experiences on social media. I think because again, in the 2020 ages, 2021, a lot of people were just, it was pushing value, pushing value. And like I said, that was great because everyone was home. We were home, you know, making sourdoughs and all this stuff. So it was like, we wanted to learn something. And then it kind of stripped the human out. Now we're like back to experiences, back to authenticity, back to behind the scenes. And it's so funny. And it's why everyone goes, oh my gosh, I shared this random whatever and it went viral and I'm like yeah of course we love in the moment lived in experiences that are off the cuff so don't be afraid to like throw that out there every once in a while but that's what they've learned is even though they're I'm sure there's a ton of strategy behind what they do they make their content feel very lived in and in the moment okay now on the flip side you Shannon are positioning yourself as an Instagram expert so what kind of stuff are you actually creating?

17:54I love this question because I just had one of my most reels recently that brought in the most amount of followers. And I've since pinned it is I take everyone on a B-roll date with me. So it's even working in my field. I'm like, okay, here's, here's how I get my B-roll once a month. And I took them through every process, every shot I get. I also call myself a shy creator. I do not like recording in public. I physically can't. I have to be very discreet. So I showed them how I do it and people loved it. And then I also did one with my husband showing how I have him shoot B-roll of me, how he gets the right angles and all this stuff.

18:30And people love that too. So taking them, not just me teaching Instagram, but at least I'm trying to sprinkle that in. You're demonstrating your craft, right? Yes. Demonstrating it's, it's showing and not telling is what it is. Those are some great examples. So now let's talk about actually how to create a reel that gets people to actually connect with us in some way. And I think the audience knows this, but obviously like a save or a share or a comment, these are the kinds of things we're actually looking for or a love or whatever they call it. Right. These are the things that obviously create connection.

19:05So, and these are the things the algorithm is probably looking for. Am I right? So how do we make these kinds of videos that kind of get these kinds of reactions? Yeah. I think one of the best things to do first, if you're like, I have nothing on my camera roll. I don't like, I'm just starting from scratch. Make sure you know who you're talking to. And if you're not sure, then talk to you, talk to your people and really getting into that identity. And I know I talked about this a lot at social media marketing world earlier this year, but it's like, we were seeing it even more important is shouting out.

19:37We are consuming so much content on a day-to-day basis that you have to make us feel seen and heard. And that's the easiest way to get someone to connect to your content is calling them out. So whether that's like the location you're in or again, like you're Gen X, you're millennial, an accidental entrepreneur, a new creator, saying things like that immediately gets us to stop. I know as I'm scrolling, I see Raleigh moms or North Carolina, this, Outer Banks, this, I mean, immediate stop, right? If I see things about content creators, I'm like, that's me too. and we just want to see ourselves reflected back to us maybe that's not us right now but maybe future us so again I was I think a good example that kind of helps it click for people is think about people that just got engaged this year the brides would call themselves 2027 brides because they're getting married next year so if you're in the photography industry wedding venue industry and I mean I'm from the Washington DC area originally so I'll just use that as an example I'd be like 2027 brides getting married in DC.

20:40Did you know there's a venue 30 minutes outside the city that feels like you're in Europe? And the video is a five second video of the view. And there you go. That's it. And they're like, Oh, I feel seen. I feel heard. That looks like my taste. That looks like perfect. They follow, they look, they book an appointment. So really kind of finding what your people call themselves in addition to what you call yourself. So on the flip side is I found when I said, I'm a Instagram coach. People were kind of sick of hearing Instagram coach. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. I have to add in that.

21:15I'm also a mom of two. I'm type B I'm not organized. Right. That is where people go, Oh, okay. Okay. I can listen to her because she gets me. So would you say for unorganized moms who blank? I mean, is that, I mean, like how translate this into actual application? I would, I would say type B because again, Oh, okay. That means something. You want to know that the internet slang is a big deal. You want to know like what people are calling themselves in your world right now. Again, I love saying things like shy creator, accidental entrepreneur, because a lot of people that follow me are like, oh, I just fell into this thing.

21:46And I'm like, okay, new creators is a big one in my field right now. But again, even like my husband who's in real estate, I would say if you're relocating to and then put the city, like think of stages of life your person is in. And I like to call it the why do they care? I'll typically not to get in the weeds, but typically where I put the why do they care is in the sub hook. So maybe the hook is like, I don't know, Instagram viral trends this week. Underneath that, I would say from someone who studies viral content for a living, because why do they care to read this? They could go to chat GPT and ask.

22:19So why? Who am I? Right. So you want to add, especially with your educational content that's on the helpful side. You want to make sure why do they care? It's probably because of your location. I mean, things like that just really make a huge difference. And you'll see it as you scroll, just they're calling themselves out with why do they care? And that's that connection piece that makes them actually swipe or tap or comment. Beyond using their language, is there any other things that we can do to get more engagement? Or is this the big thing? Right now, I think this is the big thing. Okay. What's great is it works, whether it's a hook on your carousel, a hook on your reel, a hook over your head, a photo dump.

23:01And then the other thing I like to tell people is taste and identity is so big right now too, but not so much for my field because like my B-roll is just me at a computer. Typically it's very boring, but like for my interior designers and, you know, they, cause they still want that beautiful footage. So when I tell them on polished, they're like, no, no, no, I'm an interior designer. I'm like, no, no, no. I just mean you don't need cinematic like videography. You just need your iPhone, slow it down. But if they see, like I said, the wedding venue or they see a living room that they want their living room to look like, it's their taste.

23:37They're going to see themselves and feel comfortable. It's almost like I was kind of comparing it to walking into, you know, clubs like at college, like you want to go into the room where you feel like you're going to fit in. No one wants to walk in a room and feel like, what am I doing here? I shouldn't have walked in here. So when we see something that we either desire or that feels like they get us, they understand the stage of life we're in. They literally, I can't tell you how many times someone goes, are you in my head right now? And I'm like, yes, I am actually, because that's my job is to get in your head.

24:11Well, let me ask you this. Where do you get that information? If you do not know it, I get it from my own clients, my own past clients. And for people getting started, I tell them, look at your competitors' testimonials. Another really cool tool right now is TikTok, the creator insights, creator search insights function they have on there. You can actually go to TikTok at the top, type creator search insights, and you'll see all the topics people are actively searching for right now. And you can just keep scrolling. It might take a little bit. But find one within your niche industry or something you want to talk about.

24:46And that's a great place to start to to know what's gaining traction right now. That's more telling you what the algorithm wants. And then you mix that with what you know your people want. And it's like lightning in a bottle. Hi, my name is Mandy Hedrick, and I'm here at Social Media Marketing World. My first time attending Social Media Marketing World, and I had won my ticket. And so I attended online and the impact it had in what I could do for my business immediately. It was my goal as a business owner to be able to earmark the dollars. This is my second time in person. So I just love being in a room full of people that are like-minded.

25:26It's a big investment, but I'm not just investing in myself, but I'm also investing in my clients. And I will be coming back every single year. I'm already ready to buy my next ticket and book my hotel room. Get tickets at socialmediamarketingworld.info. Okay, let's talk about hooks because I feel like this is your domain expertise. Yeah, I love hooks. So let's get into what is working right now, specifically with hooks on Instagram, because obviously it's a really kind of a big deal and it is a craft and I'm learning it. So teach me. Yes, I got you. So it's really specificity. And I've been talking about specificity for a few years now because, again, as more and more people create content and more and more people, we get lost.

26:09And we're just like, we want something for us. Right. So as we're scrolling, we're looking for, do I want to stick around for this? So anytime, like I said, your hook mentions something that resonates. Almost like that real I showed at Social Media Marketing World, the one of, you know, Instagram. The guy said Instagram is so random. I can put up a video of a old truck with some Pink Floyd and the comments will be everyone saying, oh yeah, right? And then of course everyone's in the comments going, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, it's not random. It's one specificity because he, I forget the name of the brand of the truck, but he said a certain brand of truck.

26:46And then he said Pink Floyd. Those are specific, he didn't just say rock and roll. He said Pink Floyd. So anyone who's into that brand of trucks and Pink Floyd is cannot scroll past that without saying something. They physically can't. So specificity, and it's so wild. I have a, you know, client who will just add one or two words to her hook that just drive it, you know, just a little bit more specificity. And I just had someone get 30 ,000 followers off one reel from a hook I shared on Instagram. And I told her, she's like, thank you. I'm like, you did, you added that specific life stage of theirs.

27:24And it went, it went crazy. It was something about, you know, patiently waiting for the women who just bought a home. And because what she does is help with your interiors. And so she didn't just say homeowners, like that's boring. Right. So she said women who just bought a home and now need to, I forget the last part, but I was like, that was brilliant. You made it more specific. So how can you, I always say, look at your hook right before you post. Is there one tiny thing that you can make, just make them feel it? And that's all the difference. Even if it is just a hook, that's not even, like I said, helpful, educational.

27:58If it's like a joke, it's a, I love the ones about like, you know, the funny, we poke fun at working in marketing. You know, it's like when the legal team says blah, blah, blah, like be specific about the things that we hear, that we're in, that we're facing and feeling. And just one word, one word, I see it happen all the time, can 10x your views. Let's talk about this by giving some examples of what you've been doing lately. Because I know for you, this comes very natural. And I think as we give more examples, it'll become more obvious to people. So go ahead and just share some of the stuff that you've been doing lately with some, like maybe something you recorded over the last couple of days and how, what your process is to figure out the hook.

28:34Do you start with the hook? Do you end with the hook? Like, how does that work for you? Ooh, I usually start with it because that's the biggest. Record the hook and then you figure out the rest? Yeah. And especially when I'm doing a talk to camera, I do that hook about five times because I want it. I noticed the first couple sounds very preachy. I just can't help it. And I'm like, no. And honestly, it's like my voice from 2020. It was very like anchor-ish, you know? So I usually record that a few times, but I usually write my hook. My verbal hook is the very first thing. And then I just go, I just talk.

29:05Usually gets very long. But give us some examples of like some hooks that you're doing these days and then explain why you're doing it just so people can understand it. Yes. Oh, I love this. OK. So because I do and I know a lot of people probably look at myself like, well, you're not doing what you say, because I say you don't have to just post educational. But unfortunately, my content is a lot of educational content. That's just what this gig is. And I love it. But stuff like how I people love. If you just start with how I, it's a great place to start because we used to say how to or how you can X, Y, Z.

29:38So when I do things like here are or here's my how I, my favorite X, Y, Z, it makes it, it takes it from that expert to personal friend. Even though you are the expert, you're positioning yourself as the person who already read the book, got the degree, did the thing, went on the trip, but you're sharing it from your perspective. and I know a lot of my travel agent clients really struggled with this and I was like no no tell me where you would send me on a three-day trip if I only had three days to go somewhere and a thousand dollars where are you sending me right so instead of here's a trip idea it's like no here's where I would send you so again it's it's perspective I think the best words people can take from the, it's just specific, specificity and perspective.

30:31And when you look at those hooks that we used to use that were very, look like a blog post article or a magazine title, right? How to lose 10 pounds, right? Like, okay. Now it's like how I, or I know one of my clients who's a nutritionist went crazy viral three times with the same hook. It was just the smoothie that helped my client lose 10 pounds. So instead of saying a smoothie to help you lose weight, that's boring. We can go to chat and Google to find that. I want to know the one that the nutritionist told her person to do and it works. So more about, I think, lived experiences, perspectives, as long as whatever you're teaching or preaching, you tie back and make sure it feels like it's coming from your perspective, almost like this, a podcast where I'm sharing things from what I've learned, not that I've read.

31:18It's so fascinating because so many of us have been taught not to talk about ourselves. Exactly. We've been taught to talk about our ideal prospect and talk about, you know, here's how you, here's how you can achieve all these things. And this is quite literally the opposite of that. Right. So like, for example, what I'm doing is I'm showing up every day on camera. And if I was following your model, I would be like something along the lines of here's what I learned or here's what, I don't even know how I would do this because what I'm doing is I'm sharing the things that I am learning as I go.

31:54Quite literally, I'm positioning myself as like the expert who's relearning everything. You know what I mean? I love it. But it's hard to, like, I don't have my favorites. I'm not yet to the point where I have something to teach. So in that kind of scenario, what would I do? I'm just curious because not everybody who's listening has their favorites, this or their favorite that. So let's just explore how in those kinds of scenarios, when you are sharing just wisdom, how would you do that? Yeah. I would do things like I'm on day 30 of blah, blah, blah. And if there's one thing I can assure you, it's this, right?

32:30Oh, okay. Another thing we, cause we love timelines. That's another thing I noticed is someone will say like five years ago, I started, right. Cause then right away you're like, Ooh, I want to learn from the person that did it. Or I just got done watching this true crime documentary. If you loved it too, here's more like things like that, where it's like, again, you're giving them this tiny social proof within the first three seconds. And then from there, you don't have to really talk about yourself. Right. So, cause I know it's, it's funny. It's like, there's this obviously balance between just talking about ourselves, but making sure the viewer feels you're again, it's, it's switched to your perspective.

33:06So what I'll often do is say, because sometimes I even struggle with the hook. I'm like, it's just a how to hook sometimes, like how to make your bio and Instagram, something like that. Let's say it's how to, you know, optimize your bio and Instagram in 2026. But underneath it as a tiny little subtitle, sub hook, whatever you want to call it, I would say from someone who's written a hundred bios or something like that. So you're just kind of adding this little. Oh, and you don't even need to say it. You're saying that's on the screen, right? Yes. Yep. And then right away, if this is a talk to camera, I would say, if your bio looks like this, you're living in 2020, right?

33:41So then verbally I'm speaking to the person, but I've already kind of spoke about myself as well. It's this like, you'll notice as you scroll, because I know back in the day, we could have one tiny, like five word hook and it'd be great. And you could just start spouting. And again, that could work. That could still work, right? Some people have built-in audiences. Sometimes they just say something that just clicks. But if you're struggling, these are the moves. to make. And they're really tiny tweaks. And I tell everyone there, cause they're so intimidated. And I'm like, it's just a couple of tweaks, add, add a word that resonates, um, to the hook, or at least if you're talking to the camera, make it feel like, you know, you're on FaceTime with them.

34:21Um, I mean, you can even say, I, you know, I've been a marketer for X amount of years and, and that's all you really have to say about yourself. You can then switch it. What about storytelling? Because I find that my best retention videos are the ones where I'm telling a story. So how do we open up a story and get people to lock in? Because sometimes stories don't have tips or anything. They're just stories, you know? I think it's almost like the same as a movie. Don't give anything away yet. Start with kind of almost like a punchline. Okay. I like to say it was storytelling. I'm like, how would you start it at a dinner party?

34:53Mine would probably be, my husband always tells me to share us at a dinner party. I thought I'd share it with you. Right. So something like that, like that, Ooh, people in my inner circle know, but no one else does. I like that. Yeah. But again, if even, I think one of the best things to start with, because again, I've seen it so many times is start with the timeline. One hour ago, 10 years ago, that's an easy way to start a story where it feels natural. Oh, okay. Yeah. Or yesterday. Yes. Yesterday. Or I recently, you'll see a lot of stuff blow up on TikTok. Obviously when it's someone like, I just saw the sweetest thing at the grocery store and it'll go viral.

35:27so have fun with that stuff and it does feel very much like you're just sharing a random thing with a friend when you do it that way right thousand percent it does and that's how it should feel and it's so funny because those tiktoks especially that blow up people go i didn't think this was gonna they all say it and i'm like i could have told you that would go viral but they all the creator the next day is like oh gosh that went nuts sorry you know here's this here's the follow up because people are like we want more so it's just interesting and it is a storytelling app but what I love about this shift we're seeing is even just saying 10 years ago, I read, I did this, or it almost sprinkles a little bit of story in the beginning.

36:04And then you're just educating from there. Okay. Talk to me about visuals because obviously your hook is more than just what you say. And I've seen you do all sorts of fascinating things like open up laptops and all sorts of stuff. So give us any tips you can about like how we can add motion or whatever to the start of a video and whether it even makes a difference because I have a sense you have done the same video over and over again and have just changed the setting, right? And, and changed. So give us some tips on some of that kind of stuff. Yeah. So for my talking ones, my standard format right now, until it stops working right, right now it's, I have the hook stat ready to go anchored at the top.

36:45And then underneath the subtitle, I'll use the typewriter effect on Instagram edits, which is free, which is nice. And as it's typing out, I'll add the type typing sound effect. And I try to keep it, you know, so it's not more than like two seconds. Cause I know some people are already kind of sick of that sound. I love it. I don't know why. I just, so that is like your sub hook coming up on the screen typed is what you're saying. Do they see the hook by the time they've read it? And then by the time they're, they're done reading that my sub hook is almost completed across the screen and it's right over my head.

37:15Then within usually the first two and a half, three seconds, I have some sort of pop-up. So whether it's a DM. Oh, like an overlay. Yes. Okay. So in Instagram edits, I got, I think they call it overlay or something like that. They did. And it's funny. I always joke that I call it pop-ups because this was like back when I had the show pop-up. And I was like, I always call it pop-up, but yes, overlay. So you're actually adding the visual in post editing. You're not necessarily doing anything visually on the screen, like in your recording. But oftentimes, like you said, I'll use a laptop to do like a presentation.

37:46I'll make it on. Well, and you'll have like a coffee mug and stuff like that too, right? Always a prop. I love a prop of either a mug. I mean, I get questions all the time. Where'd you get that mug? Where'd you get that mug? Where'd you get that mug? So why props? Talk to me about that a little bit. They just give, I find it a gateway into comments. Okay. A lot of people, especially creators, like many of us who are teaching things that a lot of people might be intimidated to even weigh in on. I get people all the time. they're like, oh, great stuff. By the way, where I get questions about my glasses all the time.

38:17I don't know why I don't wear my glasses in every reel I should, because I always get questions. It could be my shirt. It could be the cat in the background, but I see people, you know, putting the little mics on a spatula, you know, just random things. People love that, but, you know, trying to think of something random and fun. And I try to, like I said, if I can't, if I don't really do the prop thing, I'll at least have like my Canva presentation laptop. So they're looking at the hook, they're looking at that. So in the first three seconds, I've got them. And, you know, you kind of want to look at it like every three seconds, how do you continue to keep them?

38:51So that's why I love having that overlay when around the 2.5, three second mark. And it's usually it, you know, if I'm saying I've grown to almost 400 ,000 followers, right then a picture will pop up of my following. Or if I say, I felt people go viral with this hook. Here's, here's a recent one. So right at that point, it's a screenshot of the girl going, I just got 30 ,000 followers. The other thing I see people doing that I love is they're using the cutout feature and edits. Oh, tell me. Yeah. They're going on like, you can do it on Canva. So let's say you go to Canva, let's say you're an author.

39:24I don't know. You can go to Canva and just download a bunch of the elements, like little book elements. They're kind of little, just they're cute little stickers, if you will, kind of, and they're not animated. They're just cute. And then you use the cutout feature. And so Instagram will be essentially take the background off. The background will be gone. And then you can kind of place these little elements around your video. So let's say you're talking about books to read this fall. You can have a bunch of little elements all over your screen of a book, a candle, just to kind of, again, it's like I said, that taste and identity.

39:55If I'm a, if I'm someone that reads a lot of books, I know right now I want to watch this video. What about transparent PNGs? Can And you do the same thing if you bring in a transparent PNG. Have you ever tried this before? I have. I just haven't tried in a while, but I'm pretty sure. I know there was some drama around. I don't know if you heard this about the background remover tool on Canva, noting your content as AI. Oh, okay. I do believe they resolve that. So I would lean on cutouts to be sure. But yeah, I've done that before. And it's like, I've done that with the edit or the Instagram logo before.

40:27And it worked just fine. Yeah. Okay, cool. Any other editing tips that you recommend? Yeah. And then I do little things like throughout. This has been really good for me as someone who has a lot to say and someone good for you because I'm just now getting a longer form content, but there's always more I want to say always. So as I'm saying something, I'll put like a little boop over my head with something else I want to say. So it's kind of funny as I'm editing. I'm like, all right, Shannon, get to the point. Like I can even feel it. I'm like, get to the point. This is a real. So I'll take that next clip out and just type it out what I said and put it over my head.

41:02So like an additional little fun fact. And what about the dead space editing thing has been a game changer for me? What is that called? Cut silences. Yeah. Tell us about that a little bit. Yeah. So the very first thing I do, especially when I open edits, I load my video and they're always 10 minutes, always. And I tap on the clip and if you scroll to the way bottom, so after you tap the timeline, go to the end and tap cut silences and it takes out all the dead air. and then I still go into each clip and adjust a little bit on. Well, and I would imagine you're dragging them around and deleting them and kind of shrinking it over time, right?

41:34Cutting, you cut everything that's not necessary. Is that the objective? I do. That's why I think I can talk, you know, I can get it all out in five to 10 minutes. It's the editing that takes me long time because I just know, I just, I just say too much, but they'd be great YouTube shorts or YouTube videos, but yeah, just kind of, and you know, I think it's always good to have a buddy who, and mine is my husband, he'll be ruthless. Like you lost me. That's, you know, and find someone that will be honest, that knows how people consume content. And then, you know, if you're like, but I really want to say it, take it out, add it to your caption below, or just put it over your head as like a little, a little thing to, because again, those little pop-ups just make people keep wanting to watch because they're like, Ooh, there's more, there's more golden nuggets as they go through.

42:15Talk to me about trial reels a little bit, because I feel like this is like a golden nugget that a lot of people aren't really taking advantage of. Yeah. So I think one of the best things about trials is it is a fun place to just test anything. Like you're like, well, I'm a little scared to go outside my niche. Every single time I've posted something very random, it goes viral in trials. It's so funny. So I like to tell people about trials. It's definitely more top of funnel content, kind of like content for the masses, but I've had so many students of mine go viral and it's more niche. But like I said, their trials that go crazy are the ones that call out the identity of their person.

42:53For those that don't know what trial reels are, basically it goes out to your non-followers. And I don't know if there's a limit to how long, it seems like 72 hours is about where it stops showing anybody else. But do you recommend for some people starting with trial reels and then pushing them live or what do you do with the results of trial reels? I'm just curious like how you do it, you know? Yeah. So it's funny. I will not always, but typically what I do, let's say I've edited my reel for the day and I'm going to post it at three o 'clock. I'll post it on trials at noon and just put it there.

43:28And then at three o 'clock I post it separately to my feed. So I have two going at once. Now, not everyone does that, but rarely, I think only twice have I actually taken a trial and put it to my feed. Oh, really? So what do you do with it? You just leave it there forever? I just leave it there forever and just let it stay in that different algorithm. And I've actually talked to a lot of people that do the same because I wasn't sure if anyone else was doing that. But I figured, well, I've already got it up on my feet. I don't need to share it again. So the only time I've had one that I pushed was it was a very random, not in my niche at all video, but it went crazy viral.

44:01So then I put it to my feed because I was like, oh, it's fun. If people are loving it, my people will love it too. but usually I'm putting the edits makes it easy because you know all your things are saved and edits edited ready to go so I share it as a trial and then my you know like I said there's no magical time to post on Instagram but my audience specifically is more active in the three to six window so that's when I typically post not all the time yeah so I'll post it to trials and then a few hours later I'll post it to my feed because what I found was when I was posting it to my feed and then posting it separately to trials, dead.

44:36Because trials, they want original content that's not been thrown out there before. Interesting. Well, I'll share with everybody what I did because this was fascinating for me. So I made a kind of a ranty video. It was a reaction to some news. And I put it on trials and it did not perform very well at all compared to my normal Instagram reels. So I said to myself, I looked at the retention graphs and I saw it kind of drop like a rock in the beginning. So I edited another version of it and I published that one and I deleted the original one and it got even worse. And I'm like, wow, okay, this is really, really bad.

45:15So then I decided I'm going to edit the rant out completely. And I published that one and that one took off. Oh, interesting. And that's the one that I ended up publishing into my feed. So this is what's cool is that you can get some data and you can look at those retention graphs. and, you know, the retention graph, explain why that's so darn important to everybody. Yeah. I mean, we used to call it watch time. So they're always changing the names of these things, but you know, the sole purpose of Instagram for them to make money, they want us on the app. So if your content is keeping people watching and on the app, and if you want to boost retention, you know, again, a lot comes with your hook, making sure they want to keep watching.

45:59So So ideally, you want to think like, okay, they watch the first three seconds. How do I get them to watch the next three seconds? How do I get them to watch the next three seconds? So if you keep that retention up, Instagram just keeps pushing it out. So that's the most important metric to look at right now is your retention. And, you know, same goes for carousels. When you think about carousels, they get to the fourth one. Why do they want to keep going? Make, you know, I like to say in my caption, I'll sometimes say like, don't miss slide seven. And because seven is like where the golden nugget is.

46:27So, you know, just what can keep them around it longer? Shannon, this has been absolutely a goldmine of insights. If people want to connect with you on the socials, I'm assuming it's Instagram, where do they find you? And then if they're interested in becoming part of the different services you offer, where should they go for that as well? Yes. Instagram is where I spend too much of my time, but I love it over there. And my Instagram handle is just Shannon McKinstry. And then I'm also very active on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. so if you are on there definitely come say hi and the reels lab uh it's a month-to-month membership so you can join cancel anytime and then i all it's called the reels lab and then i've got my good content podcast that comes out every tuesday as well love that podcast keep up the great work shannon thank you so much for coming on the show today thank you for having me hey if you missed anything we took all the notes for you over at socialmediaexaminer.com slash 737 if you're new to the show be sure to follow us if you've been a long time listener Would you let your friends know about the show?

47:28And do check out my other show, the AI Explored podcast. This brings us to the end of the Social Media Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner. I'll be back with you next week. I hope you make the best out of your day and may your marketing keep evolving. The Social Media Marketing Podcast is a production of Social Media Examiner.

47:51Hey, before you go, we just announced our first speakers for Social Media Marketing World 2027, two dozen practitioners, every single one personally recruited every session pitch free. Go see the lineup and grab your discounted tickets right now at socialmediamarketingworld.info.