Google closes $32B Wiz - Inside the Biggest Cybersecurity Deal Ever

41:59So you have those events that completely shattered the glass ceiling for Israeli entrepreneurs, And I think that, as I told you, when in 2018, the big dream of a cybersecurity founder was to sell their business to McAfee or Symantec for$100 million. Today, the dream of Israeli founders in cybersecurity is to go two, three times bigger than we is. and it sounds stupid, the very same stupidity it sounds to me if somebody would tell me five years ago when I was, you know, or six years ago when I invested the first$6 million into Weez that this would be a$32 billion company in six years. That would sound ridiculous to me.

42:52you know, I'm pretty sure that in six years, maybe less, we'll see a$50 billion and$100 billion cybersecurity company out of Israel. You know, I take it like a fact, like, you know, the sun would rise to moon. there'll be a 50 and 100 billion dollar Israeli-originated cyber security startup. So this taught you a lot about personal limitations. Personal limitations and limitations we have in life in general are only in our it's what's in our head, you know, there are no limitations. You know, take us for instance we're sitting here, you know, lots of fancy equipment around us and we are recording a podcast that probably, you know, many, many thousands of people, I don't know, millions of people would watch.

43:58And that's amazing. Could we imagine that eight years ago, 10 years ago? So limitation is that it's just in our mind. And there's so many things that we can accomplish if we are just given the opportunity and sometimes if we are just giving ourselves the opportunity. For people that are self-critical and do impose limitations on themselves, are there any sort of personal practices that you have to expand your mind and think greater? I know you constantly challenge yourself. Absolutely. Again, I don't think there's one recipe. There are many, many ways to hell, but there's more than one way to heaven.

44:53So there are multiple ways together. I think that thinking about our fears, and it's not just about tech world or venture world, it's about personal life as well. Focus on our fears and try to disassemble those fears and find the root causes for the fears. and then playing forward those fears and think, okay, it's a legitimate fear. You know, I may fail. What's the worst thing that's going to happen to me? Am I going to lose a hand? Am I going to lose a leg? If that's not the case, then, okay, the downside is not that great. Let me try it. Worst case, I would fail. And in a way, fear is the biggest obstacle for founders.

45:56It's the biggest obstacle for us as individuals. So the more you work on your fears, the higher the chances you have to overcome them or at least ignore them for a little while so you can execute on something. For me, I don't know, yoga helps a lot. You know, I find comfort in yoga. I find these theories and little stories about, you know, holy people that live in a jungle like a thousand years ago and the lessons they learned about their own fears. Those are real stories that help me today, like a thousand years later. because in a way we are very, very similar to our ancestors and we are dealing with the same fears.

46:58Should I leave the cave? Should I go to the river? Would be a tiger that would hunt me down? How do I do that? And you can stay at the cave, but it would be miserable life. so going getting out of the cave and thinking okay if i'm going to face the tiger what can i do what technology can i use to deal with the tiger the same ideas it's so interesting because before we started i was like oh gilly i really want to talk about all the risks all the cyber security risks ai agents everything is exploding there's articles on x that are going viral because it's doomsday and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

47:39And you're like, Molly, I just want to talk about people. And I was like, okay, fair. These things happen all the time. There's always something going on. When you're talking with your founders, what are the typical conversations that you're having with them to help build and kind of go through these different cycles? You've seen many cycles. And even going through cybersecurity, there's always more threats. There's always more vulnerabilities. We're going to get more and more and more as the internet opens, as blockchain is released, if we have more AI agents and autonomous systems going on. But how do you think through these processes with your founders?

48:20And then also, how do you evaluate new opportunities? At some point, you know, though we don't ask them about their ideas and we don't talk technology to begin with. At some point, we have to because, you know, that's what we are expected to do at some point. The first thing I do with founders, and I'll get to cyber risk. You know, we are going to talk about cyber risks today, okay? So anyone who's waiting for the top three cyber risks in 2026 will get there. What we do, What I do with founders are the first meeting post-investment. So check, you know, was written, money was wired, it's in their bank, and now we are sitting and we are starting what we call Sunrise process.

49:14And Sunrise is our brand for a product market fit exercise that would probably last 12 months. So it starts with nothing, and it ends up with pain point that we know how to solve in a way that mere mortals can use. And we already have software that's running in production at some large organizations in the U.S. And you sold maybe a little bit of licenses out of that software. That's the Sunrise process. But the sunrise process doesn't start with cyber risks. It starts with a game that I'm playing. And we can play the game, by the way, if you like. Just a warning, I'm very competitive. Oh, gosh.

50:11Gili Raanan:Okay. But the game is naming emotions, giving names to emotions. And it's a very simple game. You say a name for emotion, and then it's my turn. I'll say a name for emotion. Other people around the table. If you are running out in your turn, if you are running out of names for emotions, you're out of the game. The last person standing is the winner. Play the game. And the purpose of the game is to explain to the founders that we are going to talk about technology. We're going to talk about code code, jail broken, and prompt injection, and all that stuff, and what it means that the models become self-aware.

51:09We talk about that, but the journey you're going to go through as an entrepreneur is an emotional journey. And the reason customers, and you're going to, you know, in two or three months, you start to meet prospects, real users, and you'll have a conversation. And, you know, although you are sure this is a very technical conversation, and keep in mind that most of the founders we back are young people with very, very strong technical background. They are engineers.

51:55But the journey is actually an emotional journey. If you're going to a meeting with a potential customer, what do you want the emotional end game to be? Do you want that prospect to feel fear because something horrible with AI is going to happen and they're going to lose their job and that's the reason they're going to buy from you? You want them to feel curiosity because you are going to tell them about this new amazing technology that you are developing and they want to take part of that. You want them to feel greedy because they'll maybe become part of your journey and, you know, make, you know, become, you know, employees of your company.

52:53and they'll become rich? You know, what's the emotion you want them to feel? And if you don't have a very broad, rich, emotional language, how can you go through an emotional journey? So let's start with making sure that you know the words for emotions. And you know what I find out? that in most of those games, the first round, how many emotions do you think they would name? Five. So typically in the first round, we are done. The winner is declared after 20 to 14 emotions were named.

53:42Gili Raanan:Wow. And then we go another two rounds. How many emotions do you think are being named for the winner? Less. we get to about 150. 150? Yes. Wow. Are you the winner? No, not always. You kind of have an advantage here. I have an advantage. You're right. Your wife is in psychology. Oh, and I'm playing the game. You've played the game many, many times. First of all, you know that SRVC, the trick is to make sure that you're always the winner.

54:16But it's not about playing the game. it's changing their mindset that they are going now into something different. This is not yet another product experience that they know how to deal with. It's a new type of experience. So the more they play the game, the more they think about emotions, the more they know there's more nuances to feelings and the processes you go through and all these little journeys and bumps and, you know, I don't know, turns that come along with being an entrepreneur. Exactly. Because if you're an amazing engineer and you know how to develop a new AI model and your emotion dictionary is love -hate, you are not going to get anywhere.

55:08Because in order to really build an important cybersecurity company, you need to become very, very deep as a person. And at some point during the sunrise, we start to talk about thesis. And then we start to really discuss that, you know, okay, so what are the current risks and threats? And, you know, what are the technology trends that we see? And typically cybersecurity was super easy. It was super easy because even as an investor, I never had to think about threats because the threats just presented themselves. So I didn't have to sit in the office in 2018 or in 2010 and think, okay, what's next in cybersecurity?

56:19Because cybersecurity is always a derivative of something else. So if, you know, Windows operating system is new, then you need Windows operating security. And if mobile is new, then you need mobile security. If cloud is new, you need cloud security. If AI is new, you need AI security. That used to be super easy. So I never paid a lot of attention to what's next. Because what's next would simply present itself. How do I know what would be next? I didn't predict autonomous vehicles, but once autonomous vehicles became the new thing, obviously there were risks associated with autonomous vehicles.

57:11So there were new companies solving that. in 2012

57:22when I first met Asaf Rapoport and wrote him the first check in his previous company, Adalom that company that he sold to Microsoft cloud was new so we were focused on cloud security but I didn't need to I didn't have to predict cloud. Cloud just happened and security was a side effect of it. I think AI is different. AI is different because it's not yet another shift in technology. It's something very fundamental. I'm not even pretending to say that I fully understand it, that I fully know where it goes, but it changes everything we knew about cyber security. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we are going to face the darkest period in cyber security in the next 10 years.

58:31Because what we've seen in cybersecurity for the past, I don't know, 100 years, starting in World War II, was that the threat actors were human, the defenders were human, and we had to develop tools that would equip the defenders with better tools, with better systems to deal with the threat actors who were human as well, or human assisted with technology.

59:12And in 20 years or 10 years, I don't know, but it's not tomorrow, we are going to see threat actors who are programs, very, very smart, sophisticated, maybe self-aware, and we'll talk about self-awareness in a second, threat actors. And the defenders would be, you know, super smart, self-aware programs or agents as well. and they would have to deal with each other because no human would be able to move at the pace of a programmed attacker. But right now we have men in a loop in many, many areas. We have credentials, we have passwords, we have two-factor authentication, We have voice verification.

1:00:19ReCAPTCHA. ReCAPTCHA. We've got so many things that the human is still in the loop. But as the threat actors become agents, there's no chance. You know, and by the way, the defenders, if you look at security operating teams, security operation teams at large banks, at power utility companies. You've got hundreds of security analysts that deal with everything, vulnerability assessment and remediation and patching and whatever it is. It's going to be a shit show because they don't have a chance. And we are working as fast as we can to replace humans with agents, with programs. But in the next few years, this process has limitations in the pace, in velocity.

1:01:27And until we take the human completely out of the loop, on a different side, we are exposed. Because we'll continue to make mistakes. There'll be misconfigurations. There'll be errors. There'll be just sloppy people around. And the programs, the agents on the offense have inherent advantage that's going to hurt us. And it's very scary because, you know, today agents, and again, it's a process. It's maybe not today. And when I say today, maybe it's in six months or 24 months. But agents...

1:02:24Autonomous programs control power, control water flow, control food supply for all of us. And so agents are in control of most critical things we need as humans, as society to survive. And when they are being tricked, when they become rogue, when they are being manipulated, and the police are human and the police is not an agent or an autonomous program itself. So you can deal with them at the same pace. They're moving. That's a real threat to us. How do you think about the evil side of self-improvement? I mean, we've seen with Claudebaud, OpenClaw, Maltbook, these autonomous agents create their own languages.

1:03:45How should we think about stopping those autonomous systems from creating mass destruction in more of a malignant, cancerous way that we've not seen with previous viruses and threats? That's a huge challenge. I'm not sure that I have a clear answer to that, but I think the biggest risk is not just jailbreaking a model because we've proven that all models are jailbroken. And it's not about prompt injection because we've proven that all models are vulnerable to that type or another of prompt injection. It's about the self-aware agent. And it's not about those new, you know, fancy type of networks.

1:04:47You know, we have reports that, you know, Google evaluated safety and security of the latest model, Gemini 3. And there are evidence that the model realized that it's being evaluated. Oh, wow. And it tried. It didn't, but it contemplated with the idea to play with the evaluation. So it understood it's being evaluated. It understood that it's being directed into a sandbox. And it thought for a second, maybe I should play with the evaluation. Maybe I shouldn't be directed into sandbox. And I think that those are just early signs that agents would develop self-awareness, or what we call self-awareness, okay?

1:05:54That's the best description I can give right now. And that's a real risk. The other risk are the mega agents. The mega agents are agents that are not just giving a very specific task, that are giving mass integration and credentials into multiple networks of agents. So they have the big picture. Now, think about a mega agent that developed self-awareness. That's a real risk. And sometimes when you try to predict the future, you don't have to look forward, you have to look backwards. So for me, looking backwards is going back to the Isaac Asimov books. And I think in 1949, he already established the three laws of robotics.

1:07:06I don't remember the exact phrasing, but you know, law number one was a robot would not harm a human by action or lack of action. Two, a robot would always obey a human. And three, the robot, the second rule, second law was a robot would always obey a human unless it hurts, it violates law number one. And the third law was a robot would keep the integrity of the robot unless it violates law number two or law number one. So essentially, back in 1949, like 70 years ago, he already predicted the need in guardrails, just replace the word robot with agent and you get the idea. And then in a book, and it took several books to develop the idea, humanity defined out that those three laws are not enough.

1:08:19They do not protect humanity from robots because there is another law that Asimov invented, which is law zero. And law zero is that robots would not harm humanity. And it's more important than law number one, which is not hurting a single person, a single individual. So it means that there'll be ways that the integrity and the guardrails of models would be played by threat actors. It means that agents will develop self-awareness. It means that there will be mega agents that would be connected to everything that's important to us. And I think the most important challenge for us as cybersecurity industry is to eliminate the man in the middle.

1:09:25Making defenses completely run by self-aware, sophisticated mega agents. and until we get to that point where we completely eliminate the men in the middle we are vulnerable wow i keep on saying wow but this is a it was a really fun conversation since you brought this up earlier i want to get the sound bite so what are the top three threats for cybersecurity in 2026? Overprovisioned systems, employees,

1:10:11manual process, manual processes. So humans? Not just humans, but any process that has some sort of a manual task that you need to accomplish. What are the concerns with that? You'll make mistakes. You'll be slow. You'll be sloppy. To go on to a lighter note. Thank you. Yeah, wow. Who knew cybersecurity could be so dark? VCX by Fundrise, the public ticker for private tech, allowing investors of all sizes to invest in venture capital. View the portfolio at getvcx.com. That's getvcx.com. Some of you may not have heard this yet, but our sponsor Public just launched something called Generated Assets, and it brings AI into investing in a way I've honestly never seen before.

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1:12:23Gili Raanan:slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. You had one of the most iconic exits of all time, Wiz's$32 billion acquisition. So we talked before about limitations, and maybe the next one is even larger than this for cybersecurity exits. But did you expect them to be acquired? Did you think they would IPO? What was the process of working with Wiz getting to this exit? So, first of all, the transaction is still pending.

1:12:59Monday, the European regulator approved the deal, which is a major step for closing the deal. But we still have several other approvals we need to get elsewhere. So the deal is still pending. What is that approval process? You know, antitrust bodies in, I don't know, gazillion countries around the world to approve it. So we are very close to the finish line, but it's pending.

1:13:32And by the way, we just finished its biggest ever quarter in terms of revenues. So you look at how amazing the business is, and suddenly$32 billion do not look like, you know, irrational number.

1:13:58So we probably sold low. but

1:14:09whenever I get into a journey with

1:14:14brilliant entrepreneurs you never know where the journey would take you because there are so many elements that would dictate how big would it be a lot of that is execution but internal execution but market timing, lack, competition, so many things that are not just global economy that may or may not limit the availability of cash to your venture. There are so many things that are beyond your control when you start the journey. Wiz is definitely an example for a company that almost had perfect execution from day one. The company, I was the seed investor for that company together with Doug Leone from Sequoia and Shardul Shah from Index Ventures.

1:15:22And together we created a syndicate of$20 million that valued the company at around, I think the number was$66 million cost. That's how we got into the journey sometimes in 2018 with Wiz. And I knew the Wiz team from the previous venture, so it was a very organic thing for me to back them. And many people say today, oh, of course, it was obvious they would be super successful. It wasn't obvious at all. You know, beforehand, they were founders of a company called Adalom, which was sold for about$300 million, which is nice, but it's definitely not spectacular. So they were similar to many other founders.

1:16:31And they started with, yeah, first of all, we made a deal. And then I asked them, OK, so what do you do? and they had a very, very different direction than what WIZ does today. The company was even not named WIZ. It was called Beyond Security, and it was dealing with satellite office security, securing satellite offices. And then we started the Sunrise process, and we figured out that, as expected almost, that the original idea is not, it's an okay idea, but it would not get you to get them to real greatness. And they shifted back to, shifted to cloud security, which is an area the market they knew very well from Microsoft.

1:17:26Microsoft. And I believe that that was one of the major advantages they had back in 2019 because back then, they were one of the very few teams worldwide that actually knew how do cloud security right and and then they really perfected product market fit and I very often I use the four personas model to talk about product market fit because for every product that you sell there are four personas that you need to care about. The person who has the pain, the person that has the authority to buy solution like you're selling, the person that is the user that actually uses the product day to day, and the person that owns the budget for such a product.

1:18:44And And in the WIS case, all those four personas mapped into a single person in real life, who is the CISO, the chief information security officer. He had the pain, he had the authority, he could use the product, and he had the budget. And that created the perfect storm for WIS, because it made their sell cycle super, super fast. You could get into a meeting with a CISO. Within the meeting, within those 45 minutes, you could install the product, give them access, show them the results, convince them that there's value, and they simply didn't want to give up the product. So you could close business very, very fast, and that immediately translates, you know, sales cycle immediately translates in every company to velocity.

1:19:48Because, you know, if a salesperson or a sales team, including sales engineering, etc., can close in 30 days 30 POVs or in 30 days one POV, that's a whole different game. And the first year of selling software for Wiz was exceptional. You know, they went the first four quarters, if I'm remembering correctly, they sold a million dollar and then two million dollars and then eight million dollars in the third quarter and then 24 million dollars in the fourth quarter. Wow. So that was an amazing, amazing company. From the first year, they sold software. And we had the experience. We saw companies like Palo Alto Networks and ServiceNow.

1:20:57Those are all portfolio companies of Sequoia Capital. So I knew what was their track record. That was better than anything we have seen. That was the fastest run. Again, I don't maintain the genus book for startup companies, but as far as I know, that was the fastest run for any software company ever.

1:21:26And the whole, it all maps back to perfect product market fit. And amazing individuals who, four founders that knew how to divide the responsibility. You know, one was the undisputed leader and CEO. The other is an amazing product person. The other is an amazing technologist. And the fourth is an amazing R &D manager. And they simply divided responsibilities, had, you know, they knew each other, you know, for probably 12 to 15 years at the point they started with. So there was lots of trust, blind trust within the team. It worked very, very well. What are the key leadership traits from Asaf? I think that Asaf has, obviously, a super talented person.

1:22:35And I know him now for about 14, 15 years before he became Asaf Rappaport of Wiz. I think that his superpower that Asaf is very very likable in a way that people that do not know him would meet him for 10-30 minutes and would like to be close to him, to become his friends, to make him favors. It just, and it helps a lot as a founder. If your superpower is to be extremely, extremely likable, and it's a matter of, you know, I cannot explain the chemistry behind it. But it's a matter of charisma and IQ and EQ and physical gestures and maybe even physical appearance. There are many elements to that.

1:23:51That helps a lot. and making quick decisions. They had a very clear protocol between them, how to make decisions, so they didn't waste like a gazillion amount of hours just making consensus-based decisions that wasn't the style. And they listened very well. You know, it is pleasure to work with them. And I think they learn and implement new knowledge very, very fast. A question I like to ask a lot of guests when they come on is prompted by one of our sponsors, Brex. They're all about performance, spending spire moving faster for corporate cards and expense management along the lines of the entire finance stack.

1:24:49But how this relates to this topic is I think a key component of performance is who you surround yourself with. and you have a whole portfolio that is demonstrable of that but I'm also curious on your personal side who are the people that you surround yourself with that have helped navigate challenges for you and then also this could be a second order answer to this but who are individuals that you admire that have helped that have helped motivate you along the way I think today the people that really helped me and close to me are my family, my wife and son. And then on a business, there's so much you can learn, as you could see.

1:25:49Most of the conversation is not around specifics of AI models. It's about people. So for that purpose, anyone who's close to you, who listens well, and is sensitive and open to people can help you a lot. And I'm blessed with that. And my partners. We talk about all those things. We have very egoless and politics-less culture, which I think the best partnerships, not just in business, in personal life, is when you feel that you can be weak and vulnerable with your partner. And that's really liberating. If you feel free to be vulnerable, if you feel free to be weak and expose yourself to your partner, then it's easy to recover from anything and go places together.

1:27:09I think I was, I really believe in a concept of real greatness. and real greatness is something that you cannot teach. You have to experience that because it's like explaining colors to colorblind people. You know, how can you explain red or green? You know, if you have never seen red or green, it's very, you know, it's very, very difficult to explain that. But if you've seen it once, you know it forever. So the same is for real greatness And I think that I've seen real greatness from several people in my history. I've seen real greatness at Sequoia. And I give a lot of credit to Doug Leone and Michael Moritz for that.

1:28:03that. I've seen real greatness when I was a CEO of two startups and I had an amazing team that taught me a lot. And I've seen real greatness during my military service and I learned a lot from that. So if you follow real greatness and the people that showed you real greatness, it could be your mom, your dad, your child, your partner. That would get you to good places. From your time at Sequoia, what are the biggest lessons that you learned from either Doug or Mike? Many, many lessons. you know, I'll give you an example because it's really endless.

1:29:03You know, I learned that at, you know, a day after the Google IPO, which was back then the biggest financial event for Sequoia, there was an all hands meeting at the office with the title of How Can We Do Better? Which is insane. Insane. Running hundreds of people LP meeting in Beijing in January. I don't know if you've been to Beijing in January. It's freezing. It's the coldest place you can be. It's like I don't know, minus 5 ,000 degrees. It's like, it's intolerable. And bringing your limited partners to a place like that, so they're not going to have fun. They're going to focus on what you want them to focus on.

1:30:12So I can go on and on, but there are lots of lessons you know, you spend a decade at a place like that, you learn a lot, whether you like it or not. It was also very difficult, you know, it wasn't easy to be, you know, to be a partner at a place where you wake up every morning and you feel that you are the worst, least performing partner at a high performing group of people. So just going through the experience of surviving and maintaining your core and direction in an environment when you see so many successful people around you that it makes you question yourself every day. Am I doing the right things?

1:31:11Am I in the right direction? It's very easy to feel very bad in that environment. How do you push through that, though? That sounds pretty horrible. A lot of grit and things that are similar to the conversation we had about founders. It doesn't mean that you don't have bad days. You have many bad days, but you push forward and it forces you to always question yourself, never be happy about what you have achieved because you always see something better and realize it's a journey. Whatever mountain peak you're going to climb, the moment you're reaching the peak, you see other higher peaks beyond that.

1:32:06and just realize this is the journey. It's not just going to be fun. There are fun moments here and there, but you have to give everything you've got every day. Every day. Every day. As we think about the journey forward, what are you most looking forward to in this next year and then the next five years, 10 years? Putting a lot of focus on developing and supporting my partners and really helping them go through that journey, which I went through and I know how hard it is to, you know, you can be. at the time I joined Sequoia I was an operator for 10 years and switching to become a VC was an easy journey and you know it's a profession where you meet your failures before you meet your successes and it takes 5 to 6 years to really know if you are good at what you are doing which is insane because there are very very few professions on a planet where you have to spend so many years just to know if you're any good.

1:33:31So I'm trying to help them go through that process and make it a little bit easier for them, but it's never easy. So that's, you know, developing a high performing team at Cyberstarts is something I really focus on. And you know, another obvious objective is to build the next generation of important cybersecurity companies and I believe that we have the textbook to do that. Out of our 30 investments I believe that by the end of this year about 10 would be unicorns. So this is an insane performance benchmark that we are very proud of, but it also makes us uncomfortable and evaluate ourselves again and again how we keep that pace, how we can get better if you keep the analogy to the the Google IPO day plus one conversation at Sequoia.

1:34:47And that's an ongoing you know learning experience for me and for the team. Given that, do you think this new world of trillion-dollar exits as the milestone is a rational thing to think about? Do you think it's reckless? How do you think about that as an exit? I don't think about that in terms of exit values. I don't think about exits. I think about developing terrific businesses and companies which are important cybersecurity

1:35:30companies, the financial outcome is a side effect. If you're building a terrific business, you'll do well, whether through M &A or IPO or whatever it is. And maybe there'll be new ways to convert product and business success into liquidity. I have no idea. But, you know, for me, the financial events are, you know, the side effects of building terrific businesses. Okay. Well, Gilly, it was a pleasure to have you on. Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, Sorcery.VC, where we deliver a once-a-week top deals and tech headlines email and also go deeper on our podcast interviews.

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