How Apollo, Citadel, Blackstone, & Bridgewater Built Their Brands

24:21Jen Prosek:So I think like, the education and relation of, of, of your business and industry and the relationships is definitely helps. This episode is brought to you by Brex, my favorite, you become what you spend on, and I refuse to spend my time on work that shouldn't exist. Expense reports, receipt chasing, and manual closes. The companies building what's next from Vercel, OpenAI, Anthropic, Granola, and Deepgram all made the same call. They all run on Brex. Brex is the intelligent finance platform that combines cards, expenses, and banking into a single stack with agentic finance built in. AI agents that handle expenses automatically, enforce policy before spend happens and close your books in minutes that's why sorcery runs on brex so i can spend time on building and not busy work it's time to get brex af learn more at brex.com slash sorcery that's b-r-e-x dot com slash s-o-u-r-c-e-r-y bye turing is training the next generation of AI with tasks that require real expertise and real world judgment.

25:35That's why companies like NVIDIA, Anthropic, Salesforce, and Gemini partner with Turing. Turing builds realistic reinforcement learning environments and data systems based on real operational traces, the kind of infrastructure frontier labs need to train superintelligence.

25:52Jen Prosek:Visit turing.com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. AI needs more than chips. It needs power, land, and infrastructure. Zone develops next-generation data center campuses, partnering with AI companies, site developers, and technology leaders to bring compute online faster and at scale. Zone is building the foundation of the AI frontier. Visit zonefrontier.com to learn more. That's zonefrontier.com to learn more. So when you started the firm, Finance was going through kind of like a hit piece era. Everyone was like down on finance. It's evil. Capitalism is evil. We're kind of swinging back into that with the whole rise of socialism.

26:35But I want to talk through that because the narrative right now that media has taken over is hate on data centers and AI, right? So how do you combat something like that and how do you build back the narrative? I mean they are pretty in deep right now because they started off so negative. but in in terms of that like what happened in the financial era that created it to kind of like wash over and now some of these firms like people really look up to them yes versus you know the

27:04Jen Prosek:shifts that are happening now yeah so i think um and we work with some data center builders um the reality that is i believe that i think silicon valley likes to speak to itself um and that's a very tight circle i always say there are very tight ecosystems right there's Silicon Valley, there's Wall Street, there's Hollywood, whatever you want to pick. And very seldom do the people in those ecosystems really mix and talk to the people and others, politics, another ecosystem, right? The problem, I think, began when AI was speaking to its ecosystem about truths that don't appeal to maybe the political ecosystem or the Main Street ecosystem, right?

27:50Jen Prosek:So I will tell you, I went to an amazing AI founder conference and the narrative was, you are a great CEO if you cut your teams and increase your profits. Duh, that's what you're supposed to be doing. But the reality is there are societal impacts of that, et cetera, et cetera. So I think that this narrative grew and then it started to leak outside of Silicon Valley and actually didn't leak. the CEOs of Silicon Valley started to say, everyone's going to lose their job, not everyone, but you know, it's like, well, they really made it seem like that. Yeah. So they created this narrative, right? So what happened all of a sudden is Main Street cares.

28:29Jen Prosek:Eric Schmidt gets booed at his convocation speech or whatever it was, graduation speech. My daughter just started college Sunday. The minute AI came in, all the students booed. So you got to look at that and say, ooh, we've kind of stubbed our toe with students, with regular Main Street people. So I think there's always been what we call NIMBY, not in my backyard. Like people don't want to necessarily have construction in their backyard. But I think the bigger deal is like this out of control narrative on the evils of AI. And I would say, you know, I've got to give Jensen Wong some props. He's been on a road show.

29:09Jen Prosek:He's broken out of Silicon Valley. And he's talking to Wall Street. He's talking to Washington. He's talking to Europe. He's talking to the UK. He's talking to Asia. He has become somewhat of an ambassador for like why AI actually could be good for you. And I think that's the most important thing right now is figuring out how does the narrative shift into, I think people get American competitiveness, good job creation, like, you know, things that are positive around AI. So I think that's just the shift that needs to happen. Yeah. I mean, that's a good example. Anybody in the Jensen sphere of leaders is super competitive.

29:49Yes. They're very competitive. And they all probably have the same components and characteristics of one another, but they are viewed differently externally. So take Jensen as an example. He's adored. People love him. Meanwhile, Elon, they just immediately say he's evil, even though he's creating all these sustainable companies. and has a huge pure mission and all that kind of stuff. So like, what would be the difference between a Jensen brand and an Elon brand?

30:16Jen Prosek:Well, I think Jensen's been a bit more gentle with his commentary and his messaging. I mean, Elon goes an X and just sort of says what's on his mind, which we all, I mean, I'm super entertained by. By the way, I admire Elon Musk so much. I think every entrepreneur does. I think he's the greatest engineer of all time, maybe. But I think his execution is rough sometimes. And I think that matters. That sticks in people's heads. So that's the biggest difference. OK, so I think like, oh, yeah, what I wanted to mention on that. Walking back on what you just mentioned is kind of your role in this. You told me this beforehand is you kind of play the role of chief EQ officer.

31:05Sometimes. How does that like what does that actually mean?

31:09Jen Prosek:I think it means being the truth teller at the table. It means sitting beside your very powerful client and pointing out like, if you say this, it may be translated like that. I would do this this way. I had to tell a client, a founder, I do these salon dinners for founders and I moderate the table. And he was so he's so smart, but he was so domineering at the table. It was terrible. I mean, he just wouldn't let anyone speak. So after I had to call him and I told him, I said, you are brilliant and I can make you a star, but you cannot dominate like you did at that table because I got all this feedback.

31:51Jen Prosek:So telling the truth sometimes is really hard, but it is true that, and I worry about this with myself, the higher you go up the food chain, the less people are telling you the truth. So you need somebody to not tell you, oh, you're amazing. You were so great. Your speech was awesome. I mean, you need the person that kind of tells you what you need to improve. And I think the chief EQ officer just means we all are living in our bubble and it's our job sometimes to look beyond the bubble and translate what's happening and how that client can actually like really function at their highest level in every ecosystem.

32:30What are some types of low EQ moves?

32:34Jen Prosek:Oh, well, one, and I should say this, you need to think about your employees a lot. Your employees are your ambassadors. And I would say more than 50%, probably more than 75 % of negative stories start by employees leaking information. So they can help you out in bad times or bury you. So, you know, that's not why you should be great to your employees, great to your employees, because they're so incredibly vital to your the life brought of your firm. But I think sometimes the internal communications and employee communications is not as highly ranked, right, as investor communications or whatever.

33:16Jen Prosek:So I think, you know, one low EQ move is just not being sort of present when you're speaking to employees and understanding that as the leader, every move you make is watched. Right. So that seems very obvious, but I see that a lot. Do you see people double down when they should probably be quiet? quiet. Sometimes. Yeah. I mean, I think emotions run high when risk goes up and there's, you know, attention. So I think, you know, making calm, smart. Do people sometimes not take your advice? I think that's kind of the question. Actually, not often. No, I mean, well, I choose my spots, you know, like everybody else.

34:03Jen Prosek:But But yeah, sure. I think especially in a crisis, there's often pressure to like act or react. Also, if you're not organized before a crisis happens, you have too many visors, too much of a mess going on and mistakes can happen. So yeah, it happens. Yeah. I want to talk through a couple examples of that. The meta we were talking about. Yeah. The meta. That is fascinating right now. What just happened with meta? Can you explain that out a little bit and how they, I mean, they've been going through stuff for a while now. So I've thought about this. I think meta is such a fascinating case study because there's kind of like three brand and reputation things happening at once.

34:47Jen Prosek:There's the product level. If you love Instagram, you love Instagram. I don't want to say you don't care about meta, but there's a product level reputation and brand. There's a corporate level reputation and brand. That's meta. and then there's a Zuckerberg reputation and brand. I think they're all at different levels. I think at the product level, again, it was like Uber. If you loved Uber and it really made your life better, you really didn't care what was going on with Travis Kalnick at the moment, right? You wanted to take Uber. Now, some people care about that, but a lot of people only care, do I like the product?

35:23Jen Prosek:So I think they're doing pretty well on the product side. On the corporate side, I think they made, And this settlement is smart. And could you explain the settlement? Yeah. So obviously they settled for billions of dollars, these lawsuits. And obviously it's all about, you know, whether social media harms children. Right. But they are making amends. And what they're doing with the amends, meaning like we're shutting down likes for this long and I don't know all the details. But the amends they're making, now they're asking the entire industry. Like if we've got to make amends, it's an industry problem.

36:05Jen Prosek:You've got to make amends, Snapchat or whoever. So I think they're running full-page ads basically saying it's an industry problem, not a meta problem. So everyone should get on board. So some of the heat is now going on the competition because it's like we care about children and we're doing these things. Are you doing these things? So I think that has been masterfully done, honestly. They're taking the hit for everyone else. That's right. And I think as a corporate and institutional brand, they are creating their sort of right to survive by doing this, right? But then there's the Zuckerberg brand, which I think we could all agree started in the social network.

36:47Jen Prosek:Then was Cambridge Analytica. Then there's the trials. Then there's like just hit after hit after hit. But the question is, and this is a question I always ask myself, can Metta survive like Zuckerberg going away? I would say, yeah. You think so? I think so. But this is me. This is a debate. This is always a debate. You know, can the firm survive the big founder? I think they've turned into an institutional corporate, in my mind, that can probably survive. And they're making the right institutional corporate moves. Do you think his brand through all of that has, he's the one who's been punished for it more than the brand is what you're saying?

37:28Jen Prosek:Yeah, I think he has had a difficult personal brand since the beginning and that has not changed. And the only way that that would change is, you know, consistent different actions over a long period of time. I will say from the consumer standpoint and as someone who loves technology, there's nothing better than when Zuck is just being a bro. Like people just love to see it. And I'm not just saying the MMA stuff, but like him, I think he was wakeboarding with an American flag on the 4th of July. Like people just want to see that more. Like, you want to talk about rebuilding your aura? Yeah. Be cool.

38:09Yeah. I don't know. Do some of that. Get on more podcasts. Like, you know, maybe don't bite your tongue so much because some of them will get you in trouble. Because with someone who operates at such a high level, who's so tech focused and like engineering and in the weeds.

38:25Jen Prosek:That's right. He should be loved in your community. You should be loved, but you also do miss some of the social cues and what you probably should say and shouldn't say. But like, you know, he is a quirky guy who's built an incredible, large company and is, you know, impacted many people in many different ways. But it's hard to knock his entrepreneurship. That's for sure. Yeah. But I just wonder, like, how to build his brand up so he can, like, you know, at that certain point. And I'm curious if you have clients like this getting burned so much. You don't want to do media. There is no positive benefit for you.

39:04So you want to stay hidden. How do you reconcile that tension of being such a big part of the brand, but not wanting to do any of it because you've been burned so much?

39:16Jen Prosek:I think there are alternatives to traditional media now to make impressions on your audience. This podcast, for instance, I'm not saying you're not going to ask hard-hitting questions, but you're more interested in an interesting conversation for your audience than you are gotcha-ing Mark Zuckerberg. So Mark Zuckerberg should come on your podcast. I agree. But there are places and spaces. Most podcasts are run by business people, actually. So there's more empathy there. So I would not put yourself in harm's way. I agree. There are certain journalists and publications you're never going to get a fair opportunity, right?

39:55Jen Prosek:But again, you could speak directly to your audience. X, like you said, like American flag on my, you know, whatever surfboard or whatever, like that's a direct image and message to your people. Right. So I think social channels, owned media, podcasts, being on stage, why not go on stage at the most impactful gravitas-y business conference there is? I mean, you know, when Trump did his, you know, trade stuff and everybody, the whole country with the stock market tanked and the whole country was worried about it. Scott Besson showed up at the Milken conference and got on stage and told everybody why it was going to be OK.

40:37Jen Prosek:Masterful. Yeah. Because that conference tends to have a lot of power. CEOs, billionaire investors, tech giants, like everyone talked about it. I really think he just calmed the entire financial ecosystem by doing it. It was so good. So you can really you can change the tide on something if you perform really well in a situation like that. And I'm sure Mike Milken was probably the moderator. You know, the moderator is not out to get you. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes you choose the wrong one. Sometimes you go to deal book. A journalist moderator is, but a Molly moderator isn't. You know, so I think you have to just pick your shots really carefully.

41:20Jen Prosek:And in those moments, I do think you have to have a lot of good advice of like, if you're going to do one thing a year, you're going to do one big impact thing to turn the tide. What's it going to be? I mean, I remember when we did 60 Minutes with Ray Dalio on saving the oceans. And, you know, you've got to be worried about that because at the time he ran the biggest hedge fund in the world. Everybody wants to poke the biggest hedge fund in the world. guess what the entire thing was just about his philanthropy saving the oceans going down in his submarine off of his crazy ocean x yacht it was positive and everybody thought like what an amazing human being saving the oceans like how incredibly serious he was about that philanthropy so you know you can go into high stakes situations i mean in the back in the day 60 minutes was it maybe it still is.

42:10Jen Prosek:And you can have a win. That's good. Yeah. So I want to dive back into traditional finance. Trad fi. We're going to go into trad fi. We are at the New York Stock Exchange. I know. Because we talked about some like really good scenarios beforehand. Why don't we just start with the meatiest one? Let's talk about Apollo. Okay. And the resurrection of Apollo after the Leon Black era. How did they do that? So I think Apollo always had this sort of like black boxy, I don't want to say negative, but like mysterious kind of reputation, which might've served it well back in the day, by the way. But then, you know, as you know, they wanted to become a diversified asset manager and go public, right?

43:01Jen Prosek:So those two things don't really go together. But clearly, you know, it is tough to survive a founder moment like that. Leon Black obviously went down and he went down for some pretty negative stuff. And I think Mark Rowan came in and decided, I'm going to change the culture and the reputation and the brand of Apollo. So, of course, they needed the world to understand we're not just, you know, in credit or whatever they started their business. And we do all these other things. That's from a business standpoint. But more importantly, I think they had to convince the best people in the world to work there.

43:42Jen Prosek:And they had to convince investors to stay with them. I mean, LPs are extremely sensitive to negative news. Can you imagine, Leanne Black, what they had to go through? Yeah. Like keeping their LPs. And they are just a rocket ship. He has done an amazing job. I think he's accessible. He shows up places. He's easy to talk to. They have really softened their brand, educated the market. I think it's an A-plus case study in surviving what could have been an existential moment. Today's episode is sponsored by VCX by Fundrise, the public ticker for private tech, allowing investors of all sizes to invest in venture capital.

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45:32Get visas handled fast. And get back to building. Visit deal.com slash sorcery. That's D-E-E-L dot com slash sorcery. What about Mark Rowan? Like his characteristics. Do you think that it was great he stepped in? Yeah.

45:51Jen Prosek:So I don't know him super well, but people who work under him respect him and like him again. Back to the employees. People are always going to ask your employees, what is she really like to work with? Right. The vibe is pretty good. But, you know, I see him showing up in the circles I show up in. He is out there as the ambassador of Apollo. And again, he comes across as whip smart, but approachable. And I think that's a nice mix. What about Ken Griffin of Citadel?

46:49Jen Prosek:wheel and deciding I'm going to get out there. I'm going to showcase not just what Citadel does, but my smarts in policy and politics and economics. I mean, the guy is so amazing to listen to. So he creates this sort of like impression that like, you know, the impression that it might be a tough, intense place, but that's going to be good for me. And I'm going to get to work for people like him. And I think he's done it. If you look at their social channels, oh my God, I would have never thought Citadel would have the Instagram they have. It's all happy, smiley people going to work. But I mean, I'm not making fun of it.

47:27Jen Prosek:I actually think it's extremely well done. So I think this whole like use of social channels, being more transparent, being out speaking in the places and spaces that matter, I really think they've shifted their reputation. I mean, everyone will still say it's one of the toughest places to work on, on, you know, in quote unquote Wall Street. But I think it has this sort of different twist, positive twist now that it didn't have before. Yeah. They come off completely badass, but like somewhere you are inspired by and you want to go. Yeah. But I think that was the trick back in the day for Bridgewater too.

48:03Jen Prosek:They had a very tough, you know, they had this reputation. They're very tough. Radical truth and transparency. Everything you do is taped and monitored. And that was all true. But the thing was, they built a reputation for that radical truth and transparency. There's a reason for it. It leads to the best returns and the best people are down with it because they want to learn. They want to be critiqued. They want to be. So I think that was the twist there. They went from fully, you know, culty, negative reputation to admired and respected. And then, of course, you know, Ray had the principles and all that.

48:39Well, that's a fair point because, I mean, we even see this in the tech world with andrel the campaign don't work at andrel like if you can't handle it like yeah just don't work here yes but um for finance super hyper competitive as well maybe one of the most competitive places ever people admire that they want to go work for a competitive firm obviously you're going to be slaving away a little bit who wouldn't go work

49:02Jen Prosek:for elon yeah as an engineer you know what you're in for yeah but who wouldn't want that yeah the CEO is historic floor. Yeah, exactly. So I think intensity, I mean, I always say, I had a photographer ask me once, like, how do you want to come across in this picture? And I was like, wow, I never, no one ever asked me that. And I said, I want to be fierce, but approachable. Do those two things go together? Not really. But like, so two things that don't go together can go together, meaning like rough, intense experience, but best experience of my life can go together. Yeah. I was really surprised last year.

49:43I moderated a panel at the Citadel Securities Conference with Calci's co-founders. One, the room, it's beautiful. They had a whole whole, like the lineup of people that came to speak.

49:56Jen Prosek:I was so nervous to go moderate there. This was like the first big moderating thing that I've done. But I'd worked with Calci for a bunch. So I was very comfortable with that. But I remember because I'm putting myself in in the shoes. OK, like what if I interviewed Ken Griffin? Yeah, I'm looking at I'm watching the moderator on stage. I watched that a couple of times afterwards and I'm watching this. I'm like, you know, like Ken's just going to say whatever he wants. You just have to assist him. But that's another great shout out. like he has something to say. Yeah. And he's pretty direct about it.

50:35Jen Prosek:And people love that. What people hate is corporate speak and an empty conversation. And I think that's the balance, right, for a Ken or anyone on stage is like, how do I, I don't want to get myself in trouble. I'm so edgy, but how do I give the gift of insight and straight talk and entertainment, you know, to the audience. So as the moderator, because I do a ton of moderating, that's kind of what I'm trying to draw out of somebody, right? Is like, what's the gift to the audience? What's the insight? What's the takeaway? Right. And, you know, I always tell my clients, don't even bother taking the stage if you're going to be empty.

51:14Jen Prosek:Yeah. Because that's a backfire. People remember, they actually remember who's the worst speaker you saw. They really remember. And they remember a terrible moderator too. Completely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. No, this is a good point too, with the whole podcast movement. If you don't have something to say, I've heard you say this before. Don't do it. I agree the same way. I've had podcasts before. I'm obviously not going to name names or anything, but I'll run through all the questions in 10 minutes. I'm like, why aren't you speaking? You asked to come on a podcast. Yes, it's terrible. This is to help you.

51:47I'm not a getcha person. I'm just genuinely curious. I want to learn. And like, if you're not going to come and speak, like, why are you doing this? Yeah.

51:55Jen Prosek:You come and like have something to say. That's something people who don't moderate a lot don't understand. Like you could get through, I think like 30 questions is a lot. It's like, no, that could be 15 minutes. I got 30 more to go. Yeah. And guess what? I'm going to off road. Yes. I'm like always, I warn people. I'm like, you know, like, I know your comms team gave me this stuff, but I know the most interesting things. I'm not going to embarrass you, but like, let's be interesting on stage. You know, we're going to off road. There was one time I was talking to this very big AI company on stage at their, their, again, not going to name names at their, their office to a room of VCs, GPs, some founders.

52:39And it was just corporate answer after corporate answer. There was no answer and they were all very short. I'm like, you know what? Like, again, we kind of ran out of questions.

52:48Jen Prosek:Yes. You all signed NDAs. I'm going to start asking some questions. Oh, my God. And they all signed NDAs. That's crazy. It was wild. But to go through some more examples, we have short a bit. I think we have a couple minutes left. Let's talk. We talked about Bridgewater. We talked about Citadel. We talked about Apollo. I want to talk about Blackstone. I knew you were going to get there. OK. Blackstone is, I don't know what it is, but they create kind of a fun finance brand because they do some quirky stuff. So what's going on there? So first of all, they are the brand fascination of everyone. They've done a great job.

53:23Jen Prosek:First of all, they were early. I just want to say, I always make the point because people are like, why is Blackstone this? These were early marketers. They had a marketing mentality early. But, you know, first big move was like when they went public, they had to speak to more audiences, right? You have to like worry about, you know, your investors, retail, institutional, the whole thing. But then the next move was like, let's get into retail early. So people often roll their eyes on the John Gray running videos or whatever. Brilliant. Cheapest marketing ever on LinkedIn gets to every financial advisor in the country.

54:02Jen Prosek:and it worked. And so they're spending very little money to reach everybody. They did it early. They were the pioneer. They were unafraid to do their holiday video. And they're this, that. I think the holiday video is more of a culture play. It's kind of a meme. Yeah, but they are really smart. They don't do anything without strategy, right? So like people who don't understand what Blackstone is today don't get the running videos. But people who do get – this is a retail juggernaut that started early and has probably been most successful. And they are doing iNetWorth and FA marketing. That's what they're doing.

54:43Yeah. I mean it's fascinating to see. I think they're a good example of how audiences shifted over time as they expand out their categories of what they're offering.

54:53Jen Prosek:And I would also say John Gray kind of represents the leadership people want today. like killer serious and smart but kind of again approachable funny not afraid to make fun of himself like these are attributes that are attractive to people we have to like we have to talk about this though because sometimes people will take the authentic route and like oh we're cool like we can do a chill video we can do something a little funny and it goes the wrong and it's just so cringe well you know what this is when it comes back to advisors like okay you have to have people who tell you the truth because God forbid you think something's cool and it's not and it can be embarrassing for a long time and these things live on forever and obviously they catch fire if it's straight I mean if it's cringe it's one thing if it's inappropriate it can really bury you right yeah so one of the most I'd say uh you're probably experiencing this most interested asset classes to come to build their brands to do this marketing to be external is vc yeah i get a lot of inbounds about it i'm sure you're doing that you're opening an sf office yes like there is so much going on there and they kind of do the same thing um but there's like many different types of brands right like you have a16z yeah they're literally a media company.

56:21They will say that. You have Thrive, who's kind of the quiet luxury of VC. They're a little bit mysterious. Josh completely crushes it. He's the idol. They probably have the biggest aura. Everyone wants to get funding from them. People want to work there. They've built this really interesting brand with very little content. And then there's some other types out there that kind of do the same playbook, that have a podcast, that do conferences, that do these like hackathon type of thing. So what are you seeing in the VC market?

56:52Jen Prosek:Overall, I'm seeing, I would say about four years ago, you know, we've always had private equity has been pretty early to all of this marketing because they have portfolio companies that are in consumer and tech and healthcare, and those are sophisticated brand firms. So they understand the value. They also obviously want to build value into what they're buying and increase the value so they could sell it. So they get that brand as part of the equation. VC was doing stuff, but kind of like not as sophisticated as I think they are now. So like we have a lot more VC clients than we ever had. And they all kind of popped in in the last four years.

57:36Jen Prosek:I think it comes down to like, what do you want to be in the market? and what are you trying to accomplish and which avenues fit your culture, your comfort level and what you're good at, right? Like John Gray's running videos is a great example. I mean, I think if he actually likes to run in cities all over the world, it's real. You can't copycat that now, but it was like a simple execution, right? So I agree. I think Andreessen is a media company and that's the route that they've taken. And I am sure that they are getting business impact from what they're doing there, where the other firms have different styles.

58:14Jen Prosek:So I think it's really about how do you want to be thought of? What do you want your brand to stand for? And if great content and being a media company is part of that, that's great. But if it's not, you need to choose something else. What can they learn from TradFi? Here's a great example. The Allen & Company conference. I don't think Allen & Company is in the news, they do one thing really well and they got known for it. That's amazing. They're a convening brand, right? I mean, so I don't, I actually almost do no media myself, partially because the media doesn't like to write about PR firms, but partially because I discovered that convening founders is my superpower and giving the gift of a network to people who need more network is the most valuable thing I could do in the world.

59:04Jen Prosek:and I always say selling is giving to receive, I gift, gift, gift, and then surprise, I get something back because I've done something for someone, right? So convening and moderating have been my chosen, you know, ways I'm gonna build my brand and market. So I think it's all choices, but the choices have to be comfortable and they have to be on brand for who you are. Allen & Company is a good example. Yeah. They've built out like a very mysterious early kind of everybody would everyone wants to copy it but they can't yeah exactly exactly yeah and what do you think is the point at which these vc firms are doing too much because they will kind of just be like give me the whole buffet yeah yeah yeah i think overexposure is generally bad right the moment your audiences or anyone is eye-rolling you for being everywhere and overexposed I think you've done something wrong.

1:00:02Jen Prosek:I actually think I always tell smaller clients, do one quality thing a quarter and build the muscle for doing that on a repetitious basis. Watch how LLMs start to describe you. Is it making an impact? Like you don't have to do, I mean, the most embarrassing thing is like these posts with like three likes. I mean, think about yourself like a teenager. Would you be happy with three likes? I don't understand why you keep putting out this content with three likes. So I'll be the person in the room to be like, could we stop with this? You know, because it's just, it's not a good look. Yeah. I mean, it's been interesting to see how some of them pop up, pop out, the different strategies changing.

1:00:46Jen Prosek:I do think for VCs though, like private equity, deal sourcing is everything, right? Like why does a founder want to work with you? Why do I want your check versus somebody else's? And that's really the question. How are you appealing to those founders? Because if you, you know, whether I think it's raising money is one lifeblood, but the other lifeblood is like, do those entrepreneurs want to work with you and why? And like, I would want to unpack all of that, you know, that's really important. It's a really good point because I mean, I, I talked to all these different firms, They ask for help.

1:01:22They ask for advice. Yeah. Some of them have the world's best performance. Yes. But no one knows who they are. Yes. I went and I went to Excel. I'm like, I don't know who your partners are. Like I know of Excel, but like it seems like, you know, something I knew about five years ago, not today. It's not really relevant today. It's okay. I said that. But, you know, I went and I talked to them. I met with them. Their team is awesome. They're so cool. They won the cursor deal because they just had a really good internal reputation. Yeah. And so at that point, it's like, how much does internal reputation matter more than external reputation?

1:01:56So like, I think one of the most powerful things you can do, whether you're a VC, a PE firm or me, get on stage with your portfolio company and tell the story, how you came together, why you came together, what you've been able to do.

1:02:11Jen Prosek:Like, let the audience see the chemistry. Let the audience see the excitement by the portfolio company of like. you get, it's like, you don't have to say a word. You can tell the body language, like these people have transformed this company. Right. So I think there are all kinds of ways to showcase things subtly. Yeah. And that's one of those subtle ones, you know, people just rock up because they want to see the conversation, but you're really sending a lot of messages there. You're sending a message about what a great partner you are. What's interesting is because I came from the investor side, I've been investing a whole career, uh now I've been interviewing and I'm much more a founder now and I like kind of see myself more in the founder realm than on the investor side I see the complete bifurcation of how each one of each other like carries the weight and so the more I see VC content of celebrating themselves the more I cringe because it's like you didn't do anything I mean you gave him a check but like oh my god I can't believe how much the founder went through yeah and so like it's just interesting to see that some VCs still will take credit for the success of the founder and the company.

1:03:25Delicate balance. Yes.

1:03:28Jen Prosek:Do you see that often? Sure. Yeah, sure. And I think you have to be very careful about, always you have to be very careful about amplifying, giving yourself too much credit for something you've done. You're better off being a little humble. Yeah. This is where the chief EQ officer comes in. So as we close out, I have to ask you, maybe you have an answer for this. Maybe you don't. What is your hottest take right now? My hottest take meaning something I'm obsessed with? It could be anything. It could be a strong opinion on how people are communicating who should do it better. I would call it watch your digital blink.

1:04:07Jen Prosek:If you're my generation, you read a book by Malcolm Gladwell called Blink. It basically says people will size you up in 15 seconds or less. Now it's a digital blink. Like if I don't know Molly O'Shea, I'm going to ask my LLM, what's she all about? That's my digital blink. That's what I think about you. That impression now is lodged, going to be very hard to change it. Like you just said about the company that you were talking about. Like if you're out of date, if that impression online is out of date or negative or doesn't represent you, oh my gosh, get it done. So I would just say the digital blink is everything right now.

1:04:49Jen Prosek:It's a great place to end. Yeah. Well, Jen, this was so much fun. I could probably talk to you for hours. I know we're on a time constraint, but we'll probably do this again. So thank you so much. Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, sorcery.vc where we deliver a once a week top deals and tech headlines email and also go deeper on our podcast interviews subscribe to sorcery today and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on youtube spotify apple or wherever you listen link in description to sign up