Jake Paul Is Coming for VC

0:00It's everyday bro with the Disney Channel flow five million YouTube.

0:11What's the strategy for marketing a fund? You. Okay, done. I was flying in from LA going into JSX and I saw this gorgeous gray plane parked on the runway and it had this really interesting logo on it. I was like, that looks so familiar. Do you know what plane I'm talking about? Yes, I do indeed. You know, coming out to Silicon Valley since I was 17. I feel like it was one of my first loves was being here and seeing these companies. What's the biggest lesson you learned from Sam Altman? Efficiency. The way he like walks in the room, sits down, let's get right into the conversation. No waste of time.

0:4715 minutes, he was hella productive and then we'll go to the next meeting. Took over the sport of boxing. I wasn't the best boxer right away, but I branded myself, controlled the market and taste made and knew how to do that with AI. Like I think that sports and real stories will become more valuable and more cared for because actually like tugs the human heart. If I could post that and get 10 million views, that's like, then I'm just.

1:25Jake Paul, Jeff Wu, welcome to Sorcery. Thank you for having us. Good to be here. How are you going to 5X this fund? We're doing it right now. This is inception. We're marketing the fund. What's the strategy for marketing the fund? You. No. Good. Okay. All right, done. Cut, interview is over. I was flying in from LA going into JSX and I saw this gorgeous gray plane parked on the runway and it had this really interesting logo on it. I was like, that looks so familiar. Do you know what plane I'm talking about? Yes, I do indeed. Yeah, no, every time I look at it, I'm like, wow that's that's beautiful playing um but had to throw the w logo on it and do some branding for sure when did you get it i think it's been like over almost a year now maybe a little bit less um but yeah dude it's the best it's really such a blessing and it just like changes the game with the amount of things that you can actually do so you can actually like grow business do more events go to more meetings that you maybe wouldn't if there's like a charter and it's you know has to fly from here to there to come get you and they don't can't fly past a certain time or the pilots can only fly for eight hours so there's all these like weird things that go into it but it's darling i'm getting it yeah i just have to put the plane down for like three to four weeks i'm trying to find a window where i'm not flying for like three weeks three to four weeks yeah and there's like yeah there's a lot of like ffaa compliance and stuff like that i was gonna say jake is working harder now because he has like free reign to roam the world so i think in some sense like i i feel like i've been traveling a lot jake's been traveling a lot so in terms of just like the blessing and a curse because now it's like we can do more yeah well i want to talk about that you have built quite a large empire do you just lay out all the different businesses you're involved in now that's a that's a good it's in my instagram bio this will make it easier um w which is like men's body care better um which is like sports gaming picks fantasy like launching more verticals um i own a ranch but that i'm turning into a business eventually with different fun ideas uh most valuable promotions which is the boxing company anti-fun um and then my charity boxing bullies i'm involved with celsius the uh you know caffeine drink and then uh doghouse I'm a franchisee owner of doghouse locations and I think that's pretty much it which is your favorite I love meeting with really smart people who are changing the shape of the world and having like good conversations and learning about you know the frontier of American capitalism and everything cool like I mean we just were at open AI and just saw some really crazy mind-blowing things and um yeah just cool to be a part of these conversations and I've been you know coming out to Silicon Valley since I was 17 so I feel like it was one of my first loves was was being here and seeing these companies what was it like then versus now Silicon Valley um I feel like it's pretty similar i think i was very different now or then i mean so i don't think i could like really comprehend everything that was going on and i was like so young and new and i didn't know as much about business and stuff um so i think i've changed probably more than than silicon valley's changed but i mean i think it's crazy now like there's just um so much alpha and i feel like are we in a bubble of all these new companies popping up or are we not but um but yeah i feel like to me i think jake is just a really good personification of the american dream and one and i think two i think with this current generation of tech there's power law to startups power law to venture capital firms but i think there's also fundamentally power laws to people so i think the people who and i think there's like that trope that is like the people who are the busiest are also the people that do the most and the fastest to respond i think jake really personifies that where it's like you get into a very high flow and you get things done and then you earn the right to get more things done so i think in some sense it's like a lot and i think we've built a number of positions but i i wouldn't have it any other way i think the reason jake and i get along is that you know jake has this term life maxing i think i've taken to extreme i want to be like insanity maxing like like can you just like do the most craziest things with the short life that we have so i think to me that i i think that's just naturally i think who we are as people and i think the next generation of entrepreneurs are also cutting our cloth right like the sam altman's and the elon musks are also just pushing what is possible um and i think to me that's why I think we all relate and have like these really cool conversations we're investing in helping each other it's because I think we just understand the scarcity of life and scarcity of time so we want to just maximize the most out of it so that's probably the underlying nature of why we're even doing this and I think to Jake's point if you have limited things to work on and think about why not think about like the most sci-fi interesting stuff I have to ask like what is both of yours day-to-day Like, like what time do you wake up?

7:53What time do you go to bed? How do you manage all the different projects? Yeah, I would say it's very different depending on traveling, but my most like consistent schedule would be when I'm in, you know, training boxing. And, you know, I'll wake up 10 a.m., be in the gym at 1230. But in the morning, I meditate, get in the ice bath. um i sit outside my backyard the my chef brings me over breakfast i start jamming on the phone getting like any early morning texts out of the way um getting things coordinated for the day and then drive over to the gym usually that's that could be 20 rounds of sparring whatever whatever um maybe some strength and conditioning after that come home lunch recovery hyperbaric red light all the different things more um another ice bath then i will jump on calls for like one to two hours depending on the day in between the trainings take a nap as fast as possible um one hour nap wake up and it's my second practice um at 7 30 p.m and then yeah probably like going to the track running five miles whatever it might be it could be another boxing session um and then yeah come home keep jamming that's probably when i work with my content team at night because they all live right near me.

9:35And so just focus on the content side of things and then probably watch a movie and go to sleep. I wish I could sleep in until 10. I think I just naturally wake up. I thought that was crazy. I wake up at like 4 a.m. Yeah, but what time do you go to sleep? I have to optimize to be awake at night because the fights are at night. That's true. So if I'm, it's fight night and I haven't been having my schedule to where I'm awake at night. And then all of a sudden it's fight day and I'm like very tired right before the fight. But if I go to sleep at 2 a.m., then it's like still eight hours of sleep. Yeah, I'm pretty, I think Jake knows that I travel a lot.

10:22So I think it's quite travel dependent. I split time a lot in San Francisco and Miami. um i'm like up like six seven a.m i wish i could sleep in a little bit more to be honest um and i think one of the things that i think we're just improving our schedule is like how do you like block out days because i think the biggest thing you're probably asking is like how do you context switch so much yeah exactly um so i like to block up days of various themes and then just It's like having calls or meetings that are blocked up by themes. So like Wednesdays, we'll do anti-fund investment committee calls on a weekly basis, right?

11:02And then for different various operating companies, it might be a Tuesday or Mondays, and you have themes. And then specifically, if there's more product-oriented stuff, I try to block them up. If there's more pitch meetings, I try to block them up. So I try to reduce context switching. um but when you're traveling it's like like you have to just like leave room for serendipity and chaos um but i think that's like one thing that i've just come to appreciate about jake is that like his range of context switching is a very very high because like you're sitting down with mark chen the chief research officer of open ai talking about like the roadmap and the future models that they're working on and then he gets to be a celebrity with like a tmz interview and then invited to like a dinner or an event then you then you work on being a professional athlete so i think for so for me it's like as an entrepreneur as a vc you you naturally context switch a lot and i and i think one thing that i think people misunderstand is that Jake's context range is super wide.

12:10And I've seen him flip. Being an influencer bro to an athlete homie hanging out with other celebrities to like, okay, we're going to be like, you flip a switch. And he's sitting down serious in a business meeting. And then you put a camera on him and he's like, he's like dancing. But I think that's what the greatest operators are like. You just get dropped in situations and you're like a state machine. You switch really quickly. Um, but all is to say is that it's like controlled chaos is maybe the way I think about like, um, our schedules and our lives. But then it's like, okay, how do you structure as much of that chaos into blocks and themes where it can be durable and sustainable?

12:52Yeah. I mean, well, I think about all that. I'm like, do you ever think maybe I have multiple personalities? I think everyone does. I think people are afraid to just like express them. but that's why people like think they know me a lot is because they see the personality at the press conferences where i'm talking shit and saying absurd things and wearing diamond chains and streetwear and then like i'm at my ranch just talking about cows and have a gun on me and jeans and boots and um a car hard jacket like and then i'm doing business and then i'm doing a youtube video where I'm blowing up a car like so I have a bunch of different sides of me I think people maybe are just afraid to express those sides sometimes but tangent yeah like I'm so curious because I mentioned this before like I was trying to think of similarities or maybe like corollaries of like who you built your personal brand off of and like the the business empire you're building off of that and as it extends to ventures as it extends to athletics and creators and like all that kind of stuff there's people like Arnold Schwarzenegger the rock uh Joe Montana Ashton Kutcher all these people that have dipped their toes in many different things um so when he can say like dating back in time would be like Howard Hughes like what do you think it means to be like a true entrepreneur and how do you encompass that?

14:20Yeah, I would say naturally being a leader and having that drive and work ethic and not being afraid to fail and having courage to take risks and to walk down paths that others are afraid to. And even when you walk down that path and fall down the mountain you get back up and you try it again because like I had to fail to learn and I think that's every entrepreneur's story um and so really resilient and uh being persevered you know having a lot of perseverance as well so that's what I would say it means to be an entrepreneur and having vision. I think a lot of people don't have a vision of like what's possible and can't intuitively feel like what needs to be built in the future.

15:17So you said you meditate. Do you do any other kind of like vision boarding or? Yeah. Meditation, breath work, manifestation, visualizing what I want to happen. Like, you know, that's, that's more in fighting, like visualizing how i see the fight going but um i i say you know my goals out loud in the morning um and try to connect with god as to like opening myself up to his voice and and what he wants for me and so i think that's very powerful as well um and helps you become the best version of yourself, which will resonate throughout your whole life, you know, personal or business. Sorcery is brought to you by Brex, the financial stack trusted by more than 30 ,000 companies, including one in three venture-backed startups in the US.

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16:59Start today at brex.com slash sorcery. That's B-R-E-X.com slash sorcery. I think one thing I think is interesting about what Jake is building, what we're building is that a lot of these celebrity multi hyphenate type people started of their investment in business careers post-prime, right? Like Arnold or Joe Montana, they were starting to do business in their 40s and 50s and arguably past their social cultural prime. I think what's interesting that's, I think, unique to our generation is that, I mean, we started anti-fund when you were, what, like 24, 25? i think yeah 23 yeah so like so what i'm like personally excited about is that the time duration of learning and compounding i mean i wish i was like doing as much as jake when i was like 24 25 but like jake's got like 50 years of compounding for like i think a joe and these are all great role models for us.

18:14They're able to compound when they're in. They have 20 years less of compounding to do. And I think it's not just because they were less ambitious. I think it was just the timing and the culture of how you could distribute and engage with people. It didn't exist. You couldn't do it 20 years ago. You couldn't be 20 and have millions of people follow you. I think with social media, with internet first, with people gravitating towards creators and individuals versus platforms, right? Like you would have to be platformed by the NFL or CNBC to have a voice. I think this generation, our generation, you could just be really cool yourself and then have a direct voice to the people.

18:57So I think that's like the academic lens I think about it, right? Like sometimes it's like interesting to just if you're writing the Harvard or Stanford Business School case study of what we're doing, it's like, what are the attributes that makes what anti-fun is doing great, unique and game changing? um i think a lot of it just like towards like the historical moment in time where someone like jake in his mid-20s can have access to like the top three tech billionaires and founders who are changing the world and have simultaneously have distribution ability for millions of people and then have a unique tie to the next generation of people that are just coming to prime right like i think millennials and gen z will very soon take over all buying decisions cultural decisions from uh gen x and boomers so they're all gonna die and we're gonna take over and um just like people die what did you just say well i mean boomers are gonna they're all dying it's time for folks in our generation to step up and lead okay and i think going back like boldness like i think i think that's part of our brand i think jake personifies that and i think i think we relate really well because i am not afraid to take bold stances but i think that is what was required for a venture firm as well as being an entrepreneur you have to have a vision that's contrarian otherwise like you're not doing anything interesting the really interesting part about anti-fund is you are such a strong representation of culture and technology I want to know when you decided to take it so seriously and not just do the angel investing route, but like actually dedicate yourself to the fund and have a portfolio of names like physical intelligence, open AI, cognition, etc.

20:51I could go on, but you have formally built out a really beautiful fund and you're here very frequently. You know, I would say always like took it very seriously, like this whole world. But I think it took experience to get better at it. But the, you know, the intensity and like wanting to do bigger, you know, funds and grow and make money for people and make money for myself. That was always there. And I think you just get reps and reps and reps and you start small and, you know, sometimes you fail, but then you just keep growing and growing and getting that experience under your belt. And then you look back all of a sudden and it was like, everyone's talking about us all the time.

21:40Like it kind of felt like this overnight thing where we came out of nowhere, but it was actually just grinding, grinding, grinding, grinding. Yeah, I think in some sense, I think we've all been investing slash building companies since we're very young. I mean, just my story, I had an opportunity when I was graduating computer science at Stanford to do my PhD at Princeton, joined Facebook as a software engineer, or I got into Y Combinator, and that got me down the entrepreneurial route. So I think we've always been building companies. I mean I give a lot of credit to us starting AntiFund to take it to the next level because I think just as an angel investor it's like you're investing in friends supporting each other I think what flipped the switch for me personally was realizing that with Jake we have a really unique platform we could actually make up a splash and compete at the very high levels of Sand Hill Road and Wall Street with a product of our current time and generation that other people cannot compete with.

22:47And then when you see that market opportunity, I think the entrepreneur in me is like, hey, we got to seize that moment, that window. So I think, to Jake's point, I think it's always been serious, but I think the window of just like really capturing that opportunity, I feel like a very sense of urgency an opportunity to compete and win. Okay. So let's go into the details of the fund. I'd love to know, like talk as if you're talking to an LP or that kind of thing, right? Like how many investments do you structure per fund? What is the size of the AUM per fund? Like how many companies have you invested in?

23:26All that kind of stuff. How do you structure it? What's the formal structure of the fund? Yeah. So we have about 65 mil plus AUM total. We're currently investing in a$30 million vehicle. I think the strategy has very quickly evolved where we're realizing that we have really strong value add in relationships with some of the best iconic companies of our generation. We've built a really good friendship with Sam Altman, Mark Jens. We're big investors in OpenAI. And I think if you saw the viral Sora launch, it was just like a bunch of Jake Paul memes. That was something that I think Jake should tell that story about how that was engineered and it's not something that was just like hey jake paul is now gay it's like it's like you know that's something that jake was thoughtful in terms of why we were uh part of that launch um so i think on one on one side we're almost evolving to and exploring a growth strategy or a crossover ipo strategy and then on the early early side um another thing that we've realized is that some of the most technical, smartest young people that are building all grew up watching Jake as kids.

24:39And we have an unfair affinity or access to being a part of their entrepreneurial story when they're just coming out of MIT or just coming into Harvard, just coming into Stanford. Hey, in some sense, Jake's walked that parallel path of being someone who is a teenager making his first brand deal for a few hundred dollars to now building multi-million dollar deals and keep climbing that ladder. I think there's a cultural affinity there that we have an unfair advantage. So that is to say that typically we'll do like a 250K entry check to build a relationship and then we'll size up multi-million dollar checks to companies that are working, that we like the product, we like the team, and then we double and triple down.

25:28That's like the general construction. How do you structure the fund between early and growth stage? You have a portion committed to early stage, growth stage, follow on? How do you? Currently, we have a couple of different sleeves and we're formalizing specific vehicles to concentrate on the strategies and having multiple products. There's like an interesting point in time with everything going on in AI that companies are figuring things out and pivoting really fast and reaching inflection points at stages you would have never predicted. And so I feel like when people are like, oh, what's your strategy?

26:00And it's like, oh, I just do this one thing and it's filtered out to one thing. You put yourself at a complete disadvantage. And I feel like the fluidity and being dynamic in this environment is how you capture that upside. And that's where the name comes from. Like, we're here at the end of the day to make money. So it's like, I never understood it, even when I first was coming to Silicon Valley. They're like, we're seed investors. And I was like, okay, but if you could invest into a growth round that's, you know, looks really good on paper, etc. Like, why would you not leverage that as well?

26:37and have less risk. So that's how we've always looked at it from the start. I mean, I think it's something that I think about a lot from just the timing perspective. I think even now it's like the valuations, the stage. I think people like, I think LPs like a very icy memo writable little essay. but I think the best founders don't follow a book report. The best investors don't follow a book report. And I think that's where there's a disconnect with the book report type investor and I think the next generation of these solo GPs who are quite creative. I think the best investors are not necessarily the name brands, although they have a lot of AUM.

27:26I think there's the solo capitalists that we can name on that list of people that just do very, very creative dealmaking. And I think it's because of the nature of the industry now, because things move really quickly, you need to be adaptive. Do you think creatives are at an advantage now versus previous generations? Because I've been noticing this theme, at least in my recent interviews. I did an interview with Alex Karp. He's all about artistry and he's dyslexic. He uses that to his advantage. He comes with ideas and he takes action on them. He also believes in meritocracy, like going after the best idea at any point.

28:04And I've been seeing that theme throughout many conversations, especially now. It's like we have all the tools for creation and like whoever is the best creator will win. But we're also seeing a really interesting point in time where, again, it's unpredictable. It's completely abstract and like the most creative kind of mind wins. Turing is training the next generation of AI with tasks that require real expertise and real world judgment. That's why companies like NVIDIA, Anthropic, Salesforce, and Gemini partner with Turing. Turing builds realistic reinforcement learning environments and data systems based on real operational traces.

28:43The kind of infrastructure Frontier Labs need to train superintelligence. Visit Turing.com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. Yeah, I think it's an interesting world where if execution is commoditized to compute, then it goes back to, okay, like literally the most creative person, but also the person who can control culture and dictate taste is the one who wins. And so I think creativity is very important. But I would argue that whoever can control culture and taste that decides which creative thing is better, right? Because it's quite subjective. That's then therefore the highest order of value. Can you drive people to say, hey, this is important?

29:28I think that's actually one of the core. And that goes back to why I took over the sport of boxing. I wasn't the best boxer right away, but I branded myself, controlled the market and taste made and knew how to do that and control the culture of it. So that's, you know, I think what you're saying is in like a live metaphor of it happening. Yeah. So yeah, a hundred percent. I think that's like a perfect case study, right? There are a lot of boxers that have boxed longer with more credentials, but literally who made the most money and has one of the fastest growing promotions in boxing, this man here.

30:12So it's just like, if you're in the venture capital business, then you're in the capital formation, capital accumulation game. And it's like, if we, I think the way I think about it, if we can do it in our personal brands and our personal businesses, we should, the next scale of that is can we do that at an asset class level and an industry level? What are the categories you're most excited about right now? I know you've backed some really big names, but what are you most excited about? I think a lot of the themes are AI infrastructure applied AI and robotics, which might sound very counterintuitive because like we have pretty unfair access to consumer companies, which we will do on occasion.

30:55But I think what we've realized that you have to be very focused and targeted on what you say yes and no to. And I think it's very, very clear that over a 10, 20, 30-year time horizon, AI and robotics are the largest markets. It is already changing how we interact with each other, with how we navigate the environment. We want to be a part of that and help taste make that. Jake, what do you like? i mean i like defense tech because i like guns and explosions so yeah i always like say how much i uh love andrel but um yeah whatever like is the most exciting to me always has to do with like what's the shocking story and like you're sitting there like i can't believe what i'm witnessing which i mean yeah again like we every time we go to open ai and like see the you know year long or six month long roadmap i'm just like oh my god like this is exciting so it's cliche to say ai but like it is exciting when did you first get in touch or started working with open ai what was that like i think it well you've known mark for a while yeah But the connection happened at the inauguration with me and Sam Altman.

32:30And we just were sitting next to each other. Was this when your chair broke? That was Theo Vaughn. Oh. My jaw broke. Yeah.

32:45No, and I think I knew that Sam likes fast cars and so do I. And so we just started talking about cars and then we kind of just got along and that was really it. And so you've been involved with the Sora launch. You were a pregnant lady. You were many different things. Yeah. Makeup artist. I was a robber. I was a bunch of things. But yeah, so that eventually led to us helping them develop Sora and like what it was going to even be. and look like and all of that stuff and consulting them you know me and my brother have however many years combined of social media experience like since the beginning of you know what social media has become and we were there when the term influencer was even made up so just giving them our best insight into what we love and hate about certain social media platforms and what we know fans look for and ease of use and comments and like just just super detailed consulting um and yeah just doing like regular calls with them and then i basically um um you know gave my name image and likeness to the app because you have to you know approve of that and i think nobody you know really wanted to do that i think and um i saw what it could do and become and like the videos were entertaining and then it just blew up and obviously the app exploded overnight number one in the app store and everyone just started turning me into you know all of these different things um and the videos were funny to people and so it just went viral six or one billion views in uh six days and um yeah really just a great partnership that worked across the board really well between us too.

35:07I was saying that now that we've built that rep together and that trust and the relationship, I think we're exploring. We were just at OpenAI for three hours looking at other ways to collaborate. Things might be cooking. What? Okay. Well, interesting. What's cooking? I'll let them lead. No comment. Okay. what's the biggest lesson you learned from sam altman i would the first thing that comes to mind is um efficiency he the way he like directs his team and like walks in the room sits down let's get right into the conversation boom boom boom you need that do it get it done like this is here yeah i like that idea let's do it boom no waste of time 15 minutes he was hella productive and then we'll go to the next meeting and i think a lot of people just sit around and we'll do hour-long meetings or calls and just waste time so i think that was inspiring because time is the most valuable thing and it's the only reason that you can't accomplish more essentially so his time management uh was the first thing that came to mind with that Yeah, I think that's a good one.

36:28I feel like his breadth of vision and ambition is inspiring. I think there's a few entrepreneurs, I would say like Elon Musk or Palmer Luckey, are in that same caliber of tier, like a Zuckerberg. I mean, just the scale and breadth of projects that they're pushing at all different fronts is really cool. and I think it personally inspires me around okay like Sam is a human being as far as we can tell right like he's a human and he's his time to leverage is very high and then I think Jake puts a very nice way to explain like okay he's very very efficient but it's like okay how can we all be more efficient and I think to me it's like the ambition part and the vision part is very like just motivating to say okay like these are the types of people that push society forward push culture forward and how do we support them slash can we earn a spot to be one of them what's your hottest take on media right now on media like traditional or social or social media like what do you think what do you think people are doing wrong right now what they could do better do you think that there's going to be a generation of failed influencers business models are changing definitely yes to the failed influencers because it's it's difficult it's difficult um and i think that everyone has more access to making videos and so i think the best videos that people capture um and the most viral ones are like the authentic moments and things and so I think it's very difficult to break through when there's when I was you know first starting the regular average person like wasn't uploading videos and stories there was one you know six second video feed on vine and so let's just I don't know the exact numbers but let's say a thousand videos were uploaded on vine back in the day in the first days now we're at you know millions and millions of videos every day across multiple platforms so it's way more difficult and I think people like to copy each other as well as like influencers and just do the same thing um so people fall into that trap a lot and yeah i would say i don't know if you have any hot takes but i'm gonna think of another one i might have a hot take that is interesting um i think there's a difference between someone like a mr beast type content creator who to me is spectacle and blighting money on fire to get views type of a content creator to someone like jake or logan who can just talk and people naturally gravitate towards the human um especially with ai and uh generating spectacles through a prompt i think and i i my understanding is that you know mr beast is trying to be much more of a person now because if you think about what his content is it's like literally lighting money on fire to get views yeah um the marker to me about cultural power is that if you can just sit in front of a camera and talk right like we can think of like people like andrew tate and some of these like very controversial or candace owens they're just like literally talking and it's and they might be car like literally car crashes of takes but there's some art to their content production to view is just them talking to them like hey i need to like give away lamborghinis and like blow up 10 million dollars to get views so my hot take is that i am long people that have true cultural affinity to their viewers versus reliance on stunts and spectacle i feel like last year was really marked by the viral moment especially in technology like everyone was going after the viral videos viral launch videos spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on less than two minutes like really crazy kind of to think about that in the hindsight but now a lot of people um i guess the trend that i'm noticing is a shift towards quality content once they actually have product market fit they have use cases doing more collaborations with large brands people that have a premium to them to kind of like move past just that attention seeking behavior but more of like no this is like this is legit and this is a really good story um did you have another hot take yeah I think um with with AI like making a ton of content and like studios there's going to be like ai studios making all these things and stuff um i think that sports and like real stories will become more valuable and more cared for because actually like tugs the human heart you know like robot boxing would be sick but you know you're not you don't like actually the human it doesn't have a heart and you don't like love the robot and like hear its story and what it went through um so yeah i think sports will and the the athlete's stories and them actually having to work hard versus getting a computer chip put into them that makes them punch a thousand you know like i think the actual time that a human has to put into things will become more valuable would you box a robot

42:40um i mean how strong is it like how tall is it like i'm i think i'm done boxing six foot six people so if it's a six foot six robot probably not um but it i mean i don't think people would care right like about me versus a robot i think they would care but like if it was evenly matched or like the robot was way more powerful then it's just like a that like me signing up to die okay not good um so jeff last time i saw you you were on one of these tours where you're go you you were actually here with logan and this was when logan just made his announcement of joining the fund so one i want to talk through that and then two like let's get through like this tour thing like this has become a real thing and then you're also showing people what it's like when you go to meetings you're sitting in the in the boardroom of sequoia founders fund uh you were at applied intuition you were at all these different kinds of companies so one like let's talk about Logan and his entrance into the fund and then how you guys went about these tours.

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44:40And beyond generated assets, Public lets you invest in stocks, bonds, options, crypto, all in one place. They'll even give you an uncapped 1 % match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio that actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com slash sorcery. Paid for by public investing. Full disclosures in the description. Yeah, I think Logan is a great addition to the partnership. One, I think as an entrepreneur, like he's a phenomenal entrepreneur. Prime, fastest growing beverage in history. multiple businesses that he's created in over the years so i think in terms of one to me it's like aside from like the fame and the influence just like he sold a billion dollars of beverages in a couple years like okay like how many companies in silicon valley have done a billion in revenue in a couple years like literally the best companies in the world so i think in terms of like the ability to mentor and guide and have that like we've been there done that i think he meets that bar of being a anti-fund partner to be able to have that credibility and reputation to mentor young founders um and then two i think it just doubles down and recapitulates the thesis that if anti-fund is iconoclastic as like as like one way to like think about us if you just term us in one term.

46:10I think we also want to just own the idea that tech and culture is what will control the future. And we want to be the ones in pole position around that. And I think with both Jake and Logan, probably two of the top five figures in our generation, it feels like an unfair advantage for us to expand the partnership to have logan join the team um and i think in terms of just like the meetings i think that's like one thing that i found to be just super fun to to to build anti-fun with jake it's just like the density and velocity of literally the best of the industry that we get to talk and share ideas with is really high and one we learn really quickly and then two we can also then take that learning implement it to our own investments our own companies and also just feed it back into the ecosystem so if we can be that um node that's one personally fulfilling and then two if we just like show the behind the scenes on that stuff which again i think jake kind of invented the daily vlog right like we should be taking some of these things that have worked in terms of education showing behind the scenes um yeah i think we want to be doing that more because it is super rare to be in some of these rooms and i think it's like the reception on that has been very very positive and i think we we're going to take that positive feedback loop and do more of that jake when did you first meet logan i think um i think i was zero i think i was 30 seconds old um in the in my mom's uh hospital bed probably There's a picture of it.

47:56There's a picture. Or actually a video. I'm on video like being born. Someone VHSed it. So since the first moment of my life I've been on camera. It's weird to watch. Are you excited to work with your brother on this? 100%. Like Jeff was saying, he's such a hard worker. And he's really good at what he does. And he brings a lot to the table. and interestingly enough we've always said this about our careers is we are doing the same things but taking very different routes and because of that um we have very different networks and as you know like you know venture capital is all about network and so he's brought like a completely different you know group of people um you know to the table than jeff and i were in touch with and constantly speaking with etc um so that's been really powerful already and he's doing a great job who takes riskier or maybe more aggressive investment bets definitely logan really no we've had to stop him you had to stop him like we've had to we've had to tell him that like here's why an idea is bad and like he's he's um not been doing it as long so he's like still learning and i think there's that first initial excitement when you first start investing that like every i mean you're getting pitched and they're going to show you all the you know gold and the fruits of the company but they're not going to show you the dirt um and you have to be very savvy and been doing it for a while to just kind of see the and feel those things and really pick apart the numbers and this is what's going on and what's the valuation was this a good entry point it's like those things but um yeah i think well said i think what i think for i think most vcs or most angel investors, you gotta, it's really a business of saying no in a nice way.

50:07How do you say no to people all the time in a very quiet way? I don't know if it needs to be a nice way. It's definitely an objective way. Like, 99 % of the companies you're not gonna invest in. It's just the model. Yeah, but I think I have empathy towards that. Like, these people, these founders really believe and really wanna work with us and maybe they're right and we're wrong. So I think, so the nice part, I think, is out of respect to the fellow entrepreneur. not like we're not here to be exploited so i don't think that's like that's that's not the right term of nice but i think it's like a respect to the fellow entrepreneur and realizing that like there's a humbleness that will be wrong um but yeah i think you have to also just be ruthless around just saying no because it's not we don't think that this will make money for ourselves or for our capital partners um i was gonna take a different route to it i think jake is definitely much more risk on as a human being.