$100,000 Fee on H-1Bs, America’s ‘Gold Card,’ TikTok’s Next Owners 9/22/25

0:00Bring in show music, please. Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod. Our politics marked by division, even violence. Senator Chris Coons joins us on learning to listen. Are we willing to tolerate, celebrate, allow folks who say things we disagree with, or are we encouraging or supporting violence against them? Potential backlash to Disney following late night host Jimmy Kimmel being taken off the air. James Stewart, who wrote the book on the House of Mouse, with what this means for the legacy of CEO Bob Iger. Knowing Iger, I've known him for decades. I don't think he would have suspended Kimmel.

0:42Plus, the White House's new approach to visas for highly skilled workers coming to the U.S. with the H-1B. Dirty little secret is that we lag badly in STEM. And our Robert Frank with reporting on the president's new platinum version for the overseas wealthy. This went from$5 million originally proposed in February to$1 million. That is very cheap in the investment visa landscape around the world. Singapore is$7 million. It's Monday, September 22nd. Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand Becky by in 3, 2, 1. Cue it, please. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We're live from the Nasdaq market site in Times Square.

1:25I'm Becky Quick, along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Happy Monday. Here we are. We're ready to go. The markets are coming off of all-time highs. Very strong week last week for the markets across the board. Technology had the best performance, the Nasdaq up by about 2.2 percent. For the S &P, it was the sixth positive week out of the last seven last week. Meantime, we're watching shares of big tech this morning. Here's what's going on. Major companies rushing now to respond after President Trump announced plans late last week to impose a$100 ,000 fee on H-1B visas. These are used by corporations to bring highly skilled workers into the U.S.

2:01Some tech companies and banks scrambling over the weekend as a result of it. They're warning employees not to leave the United States or quickly return from overseas. Nobody seems to know what would happen to them. A White House official clarifying over the weekend that a one-time fee would only now apply to new H-1B applicants. That didn't stop all of the emails. not renewals or current visa holders and won't apply to those granted visas back in 2025. Now, Amazon employs the most H-1B holders, more than 14 ,000. That's as of June. And it's creating a lot of consternation about whether this is the right policy.

2:39There are some folks coming out saying this is great. If you're a big tech company, this is not a bad outcome because you can afford to spend the$100 ,000. If you're a small startup or you're running a science lab and you don't have that kind of money, but you really want to be able to attract some of the smartest people from around the world, it's a whole lot more of a complicated scenario. Is this a situation where they're trying to add additional pressure on India for the trade negotiations? Or is this a situation where they're saying, look, you are keeping down market rates for what you would pay people because you're bringing people from overseas versus what you would pay wages here?

3:19The unintended consequences could be huge, but at face value, Trump wants companies to hire American workers. And I don't know what the number of, I don't know if, apparently there's, in his view or the administration's view, the system is being gamed. And it's not just highly skilled workers that are being hired. thinks that they're trying to get, you know, trying to pay much lower wages to foreign workers. And it's, you know, it's sort of more of that overall problem. Also, sometimes I wonder why certain people wouldn't like this because it is a revenue generator. It's going to cost companies money.

3:56It's$100 ,000. The companies pay it. The administration says it could be billions of dollars. It's another way of, I mean, very successful tech companies. A lot of people would certainly like to tax the profits of tech companies. This is a way of getting at some of it. And maybe... Increasing wages. In a simplistic way, having more Americans being hired. It's the equivalent of a tariff being put on the labor market. Exactly. And trying, once again, to do the... I don't know if it works. I don't know how much the system is gamed. I'd like to know that. I'd like to know how much tech companies use to try to hold down labor costs with not highly skilled workers.

4:34I just think there's two thoughts. We've all talked about wanting to, I think, staple a green card to a diploma. So folks who come to this country, who learn in this country, I would like to see them have the opportunity, if they could, to work here. Two is, the truth is, and you go back and look at Google, Google's the prime example, you know, there's a startup. It's a big company today, but it was a startup at one point. It's not clear you would have been able to have said startup in the United States. You can, by the way, go through the list of startups. By the way, not even clear that Elon Musk talked about startups could be here in the United States because you'd have to go find some company, some big company, to quote-unquote hire them.

5:17So there's lots of complications with this. It works if you are a big tech company that can afford this, sure. But after that, to the extent that you're actually trying to bring the best and the brightest to this country. Now, if you say you don't care about that and this is just about hiring American workers, sure. I don't even think it's about that. I think it's about is it trying to keep down technology wages artificially? You can bring them here and just pay them the same that you would be paying. Dirty little secret is that we lag badly in STEM and innovation could be hurt. That's where I'm going.

5:54That's where you have to just sort of go, crap. We need these. highly educated foreign workers because we are slacking here in terms of STEM. But I'm not saying it just in the... So we need to fix the education system here. We need to fix the education system. We need to do all sorts of things. But the point is, there are going to be super intelligent people all over the world. And I would hope that we would want those people to be able to come here and start businesses and grow their businesses and do great science and create great medicine and do all of these things. But from the labor union perspective, right, These aren't usually unionized workers, but from the labor union perspective, the argument has always been that you could pay somebody less money to bring them in from overseas and that you're artificially tamping down wages.

6:38I'm not sure that that argument is what is at play here completely. I'm not sure either, but that's what Joe just laid out. What if you found out that 20 % weren't the best and the brightest, they were just cheaper? That might be. That might be some of it. By the way, that might be the cost of some of it. Meaning, if you could, life is about trade-offs. It may be that if 80 % of the people are fabulous and you couldn't get them otherwise, and the cost of bringing those people in was that 20 % were being underpaid and people were taking advantage of them, that might be a worthy trade-off. Or it might not.

7:16And that's what political folks have to decide. Or is there a way to really classify it to say these people really are highly skilled and trained? These people aren't. Is there a way to correct it? When you go 40 years hollowing out the middle class by getting cheap labor everywhere else, someone like Trump comes in with the populist approach, I want everything American. I want American-made this, I want American-made that. I want workers here in America. I want companies here in America. I want to make sneak, you know, things. It's all about comparative advantage, which is a real thing. We don't want to make everything.

7:47But tell me what our comparative advantage will be. I'm not saying there is one. In 10 or 20 years from now, when the companies that used to be on this list aren't on this list that we're talking about every morning, I don't think that the rest of the world is going to catch up overnight. We have the best and most innovative companies in the world, in large part due to a lot of this talent from other places. But I see what the rationale is, and I see how you'd like to hire America if you could. But I think, and I don't want to say our workers or our high-tech workers are inferior, but I do worry about our STEM capabilities in this country.

8:22You just look at the test scores. So it could hurt the innovation and the competitiveness of Silicon Valley if they aren't able to hire the best from around the world. And then here's one more layer on this. How much does AI change the game on this? On coding, for example. Right. It used to be that. But the folks who developed and invented the coding, some of those folks, by the way, are not American born either. But if you developed and invented the coding, I don't think$100 ,000 would stop them from bringing you in. and they're offering$100 million pay packages to some of these people. Right, but if you invent it in India, and they are able to build the entire AI industry in India, it doesn't matter.

9:08But they're not saying you can't come in. They're just saying you have to pay. Right, and what I'm saying is if you're a genius startup kid who wants to build something as a startup, it is not so easy to go find$100 ,000 just to get yourself in the country. That's what I'm trying to suggest. I'm trying to suggest if you're going to start the business in the garage, if that's part of what's going on here, if that's the economy that we've tried to create, unless we believe that all venture capitalists at Andreessen Horowitz and Sequoia and all these firms are now going to not only invest in companies, but they're going to add, you know, millions of dollars to the fees because they're going to actually be trying to, you know, spend money on visas.

9:53Yeah, honestly, I don't know what I feel about it. I'm still trying to kick it all around. I'm not saying it's a bad idea in total. The question is, is there a way to do this in a nuanced way? Maybe it is that big companies like Facebook and the others should have to pay$100 ,000. Right. Maybe you get exemptions. There is a separate group where there is a lottery system for a startup community. I'm just saying the broad brush approach, there's probably lots of, it's never black and white. There's lots of ways to do this. And I'm just suggesting that by doing it across the board, when we talk about innovation, it may be more complicated.

10:31And you do worry all the time about what makes us special, what makes this an innovative hub, what makes this better. I think regulatory oversight and overreach is a big part of that. But this is probably part of the special sauce, too. you're conceding that maybe there's some merit to the idea. I think that's a major, that's good. That's interesting to look at. I don't know. I'm saying if you want to do it for a certain kind of plan on Twitter. For as great as these people in India are, we do have the greatest. They don't have the same level of innovative tech companies that we have here. One of the reasons is because you can be here.

11:13So you want to be here, yeah. Because you want to be here. No, no. But also because you can be here. Well, that's why he asked whether India is unhappy or happy with this. Maybe, you know, keep the people and domestically have some great companies. Maybe that's what they'd like to do. By the way, go back and look at what just happened down with the car companies. You know, they were bringing in folks from Korea. Why were they doing that? They were doing that because they didn't feel that they had enough of the right people in the United States, at least initially right now with some of these new vehicles that they're making, to actually be able to put them together.

11:47So this is a little bit like, you know, we don't tariff bananas the same way we tariff other items, because guess what? It's very hard to grow bananas in America. That's comparative advantage. Right. And so ultimately we'd like to, if we could one day grow bananas in America, that'd be a whole other thing. But, you know, at some point it would be great if we had all of the perfect people coming out of universities to go do these jobs. But until we do that, you need to find some kind of solution. The perfect people in all the perfect industries to have to emphasize. And that's an education story, but that's generational.

12:23President Trump says that Rupert Murdoch and his son, Lachlan Murdoch, the CEO of Fox, will probably be involved in a deal to keep Tidcock running in the United States. In an interview that aired yesterday on Fox News, President Trump also said Oracle Executive Chairman Larry Ellison and Dell CEO Michael Dell will likely be involved. A person familiar with the matter telling CNBC that Lachlan Murdoch probably won't take part in the deal individually, but Fox could play a role. There was a Friday call between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping. Then over the weekend, the White House gave details of a possible deal to save TikTok in the United States.

13:02It said six seats of the seven member board that control the app will be in the United States and will be Americans. White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt also said that the U.S. will control TikTok's algorithm and that data privacy efforts will be led by Oracle. And that's been the big question around it. Who controls the algorithm? Cheese will be next. Coming up next on Squawk Pod, Golden Visas, Congress on recess while another government shutdown deadline looms. And the United Nations General Assembly is set to begin as many Western nations push to officially recognize Palestine. Those issues and much more in a conversation with Delaware Democrat Senator Chris Coons.

13:46Israel's global standing is desperately at risk because of the suffering of Palestinian civilians.

13:58You're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC. They're very productive people, and they're going to pay a million dollars. The corporation's going to pay two million dollars, and it's going to raise billions of dollars, billions and billions of dollars, which is going to go to reduce taxes, pay off debt, and other good things. The company needs to decide, do they want, is the person valuable enough to have$100 ,000 a year payment to the government, or they should head home and they should go hire an American. Here's Andrew Ross Sorkin. Welcome back to Squawk Box. While the Trump administration are unveiling a new fee for H-1B visas, it also announced new programs designed to fast-track residency for foreign nationals with some tax breaks.

14:44CNBC's wealth editor Robert Frank joins us now with some of the details. Robert. Good morning, Andrew. Good to see you. Well, President Trump announcing two new luxury visa programs, a gold card and a platinum card. The gold card will cost$1 million for individuals and$2 million for companies. It will allow foreign nationals to get U.S. residency, quote, in record time. And the$2 million corporate card is transferable from one employee to another. Now, the platinum card is going to cost$5 million and will allow foreign nationals to spend 270 days in the U.S. without paying taxes on their overseas income.

15:19Now, currently, of course, we all know that U.S. citizens and residents have to pay taxes on their U.S. and their foreign income. Foreigners who are here for more than 183 days during a three-year period that uses a special IRS formula. They, too, are currently subject to tax on overseas income. The platinum card, however, will extend that time period to about nine months. Commerce Secretary Howard Ludnick saying that the new$100 ,000 H-1B fee, gold card, platinum cards, all expected to generate$100 billion in revenue that's going to be used to lower taxes and pay down debt. Now, the gold card will replace the EB-1 and EB-2 programs.

15:57We have yet to hear, you know, initially they said this would replace the EB-5 program, which is very popular and costs a million dollars and requires you to create at least 10 jobs. But if people can pay the same amount and not have a job requirement, which is what the gold card is, that will be a lot more attractive. How many of these things do you think really are going to get sold? This is huge. Like, this is now one of the, this went from$5 million originally proposed in February to$1 million. That is very cheap in the investment visa landscape around the world. Singapore is$7 million. Samoa is$1.4 million.

16:35Hong Kong, El Salvador. all these countries have programs that are more expensive now than the U.S. So this will be very popular. Okay, and what kind, sort of a terrible question to ask, who are the people that are going to choose to do this? And what kind of sort of regulations do you think we're going to have around the kind of people that are going to involve and engage themselves in this kind of stuff? Well, we don't know anything about what the screening will involve. All they said was that they will get it in record time. So we have to assume that that will be lighter screen now in the press conference on Friday Lutnik and President Trump said these will be extraordinary people But again, there's no investment requirement.

17:15There's no job requirement a million dollars could be borrowed There's no requirement about really so that seems Why not it's as long as somebody pays the million dollars to Treasury. It doesn't matter where they get it So we'll have to see I think China will be very popular I think the Middle East and Latin America, those will be the big countries that buy this. The H-1B visas. I mean, I've just been trying to look up how much these people make. I think the medium was about$108 ,000 in 2021. The average is$167 ,000, but you've got 30 % that earn$100 ,000 or less. How does this play out? How is this going to change things?

17:55Do you worry about what it does to innovation here? I think the H-1B visa got abused. A lot of tech companies were using it to pay much lower salaries to people. I think that seeks to correct that. But it's going to be very expensive. And I think there's a lot of questions still around, you know, is it transferable? Is it renewed? Is it every year? I mean, the White House clarified a lot of that. I think the tech companies are still wondering. But this is a 1 ,000 % increase in that fee. It used to be$1 ,000. Now it's$100. So that changes. But the hope is that it will force companies to hire U.S.

18:33graduates. And that would be great. Great. Robert Frank, thank you. Appreciate it.

18:40The U.K., Canada and Australia have announced that they will recognize a Palestinian state, a decision that's at odds with President Trump and Israeli President Netanyahu. Joining us now, Senator Chris Coons. It says here you're a Democrat. Now, how how do they I would have never. He's from Delaware, friend of the show, member of the Foreign Relations Committee. And the first thing you said was you will willingly get up this early because it's, what, did you say the best show on the show? I love coming on this early because I get the best comments from my friends after doing an interview with you guys.

19:12You do. Sort of, I guess, both side-isms because you will get it. They decided, the producers, that we would start with that. We could have started with the U.N. We could have started with the economy, the economy. Well, probably president's speech, president's speech. Could have started with all of us. Cancel culture comes to late night. Cancel culture comes to the other party, to the other side. Amazing. What what do we do with Gaza? What do we do with the Palestinian problem? Are we on the wrong side of that? First, it's important to always remember that Hamas on October 7th assaulted, invaded, attacked Israel and murdered thousands of innocent civilians.

19:57And the tragic war that's now gone on, in my view, too long is a direct result of that. Israel, I think, should declare victory, having struck decisive blows against Hamas, against Hezbollah, against Iran, and find a way to hand over, with our partnership and support, the security and stabilization of Gaza to Arab regional soldiers and governments and flood humanitarian aid into Gaza. I recognize that Hamas is willing to fight to the last Palestinian civilian and that not all of this is of Israel's making, but Israel's global standing is desperately at risk because of the suffering of Palestinian civilians.

20:41I think they should be allowing humanitarian aid to flood into Gaza. yet I understand the legitimacy of Israelis being profoundly concerned about their security. During the president's state visit to the UK, and I'm sure you were glued to the TV set watching that, swelling with pride that only the second one, okay. But someone asked Keir Starmer, are you going to recognize the Palestinian state? And he, as many politicians do, not you ever, but as many politicians do, he said, I will guarantee you that Hamas will be no part of the government, of the future government. And President Trump kind of patted him on the hill like he had said, I guess he was trying to say cover both sides.

21:29He did not say that they weren't going to. That was in the works, that they were going to recognize the state. So it's not a surprise that they did it. I just, that gets to the next question we can lead into, whether Benjamin Netanyahu should be arrested if he shows his face in New York City, according to the mayoral candidate Mamdani. You've seen that, right? I have not seen that. What are you referencing? You've not seen that? You've said it twice. You've seen what? Mamdani has said if he wins and becomes the mayor of New York City. Now I had missed that. He's going to instruct the NYPD if Bibi Netanyahu were to come to New York to have him arrested under the idea that he is a war criminal by a justice system, by the way, that the United States, I don't believe, supports or even recognizes.

22:23Yeah, the Rome Treaty. Look, the treaty that set up the U.N. does not allow that. and frankly, I wasn't aware of the foreign policy of Mamdani. I do support the fact that the governor... Just to be clear, he said it before, he said it once, at least once publicly, prior to becoming, prior to the nomination, effectively, winning the primary, and then doubled down on it about a week and a half ago. Well, Mamdani has said quite a few things. I'm not a New Yorker. I'm not a specialist in New York politics. I will say that his focus on costs, on the cost of living, the cost of housing, is what attracted a lot of support here in New York across a wide range of neighborhoods.

23:07But I don't endorse a wide range of the things that he has previously supported. So therefore, do you endorse him? I have not endorsed him. I also have never been asked to endorse him. I'm asking, would you endorse him? I'm not endorsing in the New York mayoral race, no. What do you think, though, more broadly, to the degree that he is representative, if you think he is, of a broader move amidst the Democratic Party, more towards a, he's part of this socialist, national socialist party? National socialist party? That's exactly not the direction we're talking about. You don't mean Nazis. Excuse me?

23:46He talks himself. You mean democratic socialist. Democratic socialist party. Sorry. Sorry, I apologize. Significant difference, but it's OK. Well, that's the next step after you get to Democratic. You got to end up there. Look, the larger point is we have two really compelling candidates running for governor in Virginia and in New Jersey. I think represent the direction the Democratic Party should be taking. A primary in New York City is not representative of the broad run of the United States. But President Trump ran on reducing prices. Mom Donnie is running on reducing prices. And what I think most Americans responded to in the last election and in this upcoming election is the rent is too damn high.

24:23And Trump is not delivering on that promise to the American people with his chaotic tariff agenda that is raising prices for working people. But let me ask you a question. Look, people are focused on affordability, which is the issue. I agree with that. The question is, how do you solve the affordability issue? We can set price controls on everything. His view, meaning potentially the next mayor of New York, is to freeze housing prices, rent in New York, at the same time that he says he wants to create affordable housing. Right. When I was county executive responsible. That's a very hard thing to do.

25:00If you freeze rent, the developers say to themselves, well, I can't invest here. I'm going somewhere else. This makes no sense. Right. So the question is, I believe more in building housing rather than freezing the benefits of the rent that you can earn from building and developing housing. When I was county executive for half the population of Delaware, I put a lot of time and effort into affordability in housing, help pass one of the first inclusionary zoning codes, help pass codes that gave builders incentives in terms of density if they would commit to long term affordability. I think market forces partnering with government investment and changes in zoning can produce more affordable housing.