Big Tech’s Big Challenges & Transportation Sec. Sean Duffy 11/3/25

0:00Bring in show music, please. Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod. The government shutdown hits day 34 and air traffic control staffing is on the brink. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says it's Democrats that are playing politics. Well, what is leverage? Their leverage is to hurt the American people. And that critical workers are going without pay. I'm not going to, you know, fire air traffic controllers who are trying to put food on their family's table. I am asking all of them to come to work. I want them to come to work. They have a job to do. Big tech's bigness grows.

0:37Antitrust expert Tim Wu on the mega cap trillion dollar plus companies battling for speed and for business. The most important industrial policy for the United States at home is competition. In other words, what we want is we want a big fight at home so our companies are stronger when they face the Chinese companies. Plus, a big deal. Kimberly Clark is acquiring Tylenol maker Kenview, President Trump was on 60 Minutes, and Andrew Ross Sorkin is in London, but it was close. I was a victim, a victim of the government shutdown over the weekend. Oh, with the planes. It's Monday, November 3rd, 2025.

1:16Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand Andrew by in three, two, one, cue Andrew. Good morning and welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. I'm Andrew Ross Sorkin along with Joe Kernan. Mike Santoli is joining us. Becky's off today. I happen to be in London, folks. So we're all together across the pond. What do you call this? Joe, is this a transatlantic broadcast? Is that what this is? Didn't know where you were going with that. Yeah, I think so. I mean, inquiring minds want to know, Andrew, you know what I think you're doing? Are you casting like a British actor for 1929, the movie or something?

2:00Because they're the best actors. Because even when they don't use the accent, even when they use the... It's just they're more... I don't know. They have more credibility. They're better. Why are the British actors better even with the American accent that they put on? I'm not really... Okay, but that was leading into why are you there? Can you tell us? I am here in London because I'm speaking this evening about the aforementioned 1929 here in London. And there's a UK edition of the book. So I'm talking to a whole bunch of people. And I happen to be, you'll appreciate this, tomorrow morning, I'm going to be on the new Sky News breakfast program that is hosted by, do you know who?

2:45Wilford Frost. Yeah. Wilford Frost. They just launched the broadcast this morning here in London. It's a big, big deal. Oh, really? So I'm going to be on their second. It's a second broadcast. What a good, that is a symbiotic thing. Good for you, good for them, good for everyone. And Sky is now the provider, is going to be the international provider of our international news for the new Versant company. And so that every time that there's, you know, different international news that's going to come over MSNBC and possibly over CNBC, that will be in partnership with Sky. Excellent. So you're busy.

3:22A little bit of the explanation. You're not going on the eye. But I should tell you, it's a permissible absence. It is a permissible absence. But you're not going on the eye. You're not going to the torture museum. Are you going to the tower? Are you going to that old, what is that, right near the bridge? It's so cool. Well, it's from, like, the 11th century. I got no time. Building from the 11th century, the white, whatever the hell it is. Which one is that? I don't know what you're referencing. I was going to tell you, though, Joe, you'd appreciate this. I was a victim, a victim of the government shutdown over the weekend.

3:55I was supposed to fly here yesterday. Talk to your party. I was supposed to be here last night, and the plane got canceled because of the government shutdown. It's a minor miracle I'm even here right now. Talk to your friends. Every shutdown that's ever happened, the party that won't vote for the CR, the clean CR, is the party to blame, except this time. And I can explain it to you, these polls. You want me to explain the polls to you? 30 % ask people, 30 % hate Trump. I hate Trump. Okay, so you got 30 to start. That leaves 70. The other 70 you say, would you rather have you pay for most of your health care or would you rather have the government pay for most of your health care?

4:36So then you got, let's see, 70, 50, 50%. So you start at 70 % say it's Trump's fault. It's Republican. So these polls, but any other time it's ever been done, the party that doesn't vote for the clean CR gets blamed. So that's my analysis this morning. I hope I'm looking up. I'm not sure that's the phrasing of the polling question, but we'll see. That doesn't matter whether that's a phrasing, but you want free stuff. Check here if you want free stuff. Check here if you'd rather pay for it yourself. I am hopeful. I don't know about you. I am hopeful that actually maybe, given all the big elections that are taking place tomorrow, including in New York City, where I recommend everybody go out and vote if you can, that maybe the government gets to open after that.

5:23I've always thought that that's a key date, that maybe that's one of the holdouts that Democrats are using in all of this. Yeah, I think also that's where the kind of the betting markets have settled around that as well, Andrew. You know, sometime in the days after the elections tomorrow, we will see if that's the case. Yeah, it's a white tower, and it's right near the bridge, and it was built in 1100. And I actually searched AI for White Castle, and something completely different came up. It had sliders and... Yeah, they'll door dash it here if you want. Do you want me to go do the visit right now, Joe?

5:57I can go. There's jewels there. I can take off right now and go. You could do a heist. I can go check out the jewels if you'd like. There are unbelievable crown jewels there. Just put a couple in your pocket. It always works out, as we've now seen. I could FaceTime the entire. Why don't I why don't I leave the set now? I can take I can FaceTime for the rest of the show from wherever I am. And we could just go on like a walking tour of London. White Tower. Yeah. President Trump says NVIDIA's most advanced semiconductors will be reserved for U.S. customers. In an interview taped on Friday that aired last night on 60 Minutes, the president said that U.S.

6:29companies should be the only ones who have access to NVIDIA's Blackwell AI chips. and that could mean a permanent ban on Blackwell chip sales to China, though the president kept the door open to China working with NVIDIA on less advanced chips. This was President Trump's first appearance on 60 Minutes since he settled a lawsuit with CBS News this past summer over an interview that was edited with former Vice President Kamala Harris. Andrew. Meantime, as I mentioned, I was a victim of this government shutdown, But let's explain where everything stands on the government shutdown, because the president was asked about that on the 60 Minutes interview.

7:08Subsidies for Affordable Care Act are at the center of the dispute, at least between Republicans and Democrats. President Trump blasting Obamacare, but said he would work with Democrats on the program if they vote with GOP senators to reopen the government. Here's what we have to say. We can fix it with the Democrats. All they have to do is let the country open and we'll fix it. They have to let the country open, and I'll sit down with the Democrats and we'll fix it. But they have to let the country. And you know what they have to do? All they have to do is raise five hands. We don't need all of them.

7:43Today is now the 34th day of the government shutdown. It is now tied for the longest ever in American history. Now, the Trump administration must tell two federal judges today whether we'll follow court orders that it continue to fund the SNAP program with contingency funds. We're going to talk a lot more about this later in the show. with Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy talking about some of those air traffic delays at U.S. airports that hit myself and others. Yeah. Mike. Yeah, they told me, your mic's open. I go, I hope my mic's open. It should always be open because I was doing my Nora O'Donnell imitation.

8:18But, but, but, but, but, but, but. You know, you're trying to... Oh, come on. I thought, I actually thought she did a terrific job last night. I didn't watch it. I thought the president did a good job. I actually thought it was a good interview. It was like 73 minutes or something and the whole, I haven't watched it, the whole interview. You know, there's other things that, actually it was on after the game ended. It was. So theoretically, I guess I could have watched. They're on probation with me. We're going to see. 60 minutes. I've told you that, Andrew. I mean, it went so far one way. So they're on probation with you, but they're not on probation with the president?

8:52Although they had Rick Scott. They had Rick Scott on. They had, oh, my God, they had Jared Kushner and Steve Witkopf on. Oh, my God. That would have never happened. And who else did they have on, Joe? Andrew Ross-Orkin. Joe Ross did they have on? Andrew Ross-Orkin. They did. Thank you very little. Thank you very little. But that's the old 60 Minutes. Okay. I'm kidding. I'm sure they're... Did they edit anything? Oh, I didn't like the way they edited you. I didn't. I thought it should have been much more about... Oh, come on. No, the historical... They made you look good, but they didn't talk enough about the book.

9:27They talked about the crash that's coming, that they want to come, right? I got no comment. I got no comment. You're tired. You had flight problems. What's your aura ring today, Andrew? Give us an idea. Oh, boy. You really want to know? I do. They should sponsor us, and we should have like a little graphic in the bottom of the screen. It is not good. It is, oof, oof. What is it here? Oh, 61, Joe. 61. Oh, man. Be warned. OK, that's no good. Yeah. All right. All right. Rest of the show, Andrew. Anything, whatever you say, I'm agreeing with. Is this the most interesting off year for elections, Sorkin?

10:12I think it is. We'll talk about it more later. But I'm riveted with New Jersey because I live there and it's so tight right now. I don't know what happens in Virginia. I guess it's a it's a long shot at this point for when some serious. And then, you know, is Mamdani got it? Are things really tightening up, Zorkin? I don't know. I honestly, I wish I knew. I'm looking at the betting markets like everybody else and thinking maybe that's the answer. That's what the answer has been relatively accurate over the years. But George Soros might be buying every contract. George Soros might be buying every contract on across the board.

10:53Cal State, Poly Market. What? What? So now you think these things are being manipulated? Yeah, now I do. Now I do. Okay. Oh, George Will says every once in a while we should do another experiment in socialism. So that's kind of sacrifice the city of New York just so we can, yeah, sacrifice the city of New York. And who knows how many people are affected by it just so that once again we can relearn the lesson. Yeah, so we can relearn it. Meantime, we've got some merger news. What's going on, Mike? Yeah, Kimberly-Clark is buying Kenview in a cash and stock deal valued at about$49 billion. Wow. Kenview shareholders will receive$350 in cash and a fraction of a Kimberly-Clark share for each Kenview share they own.

11:41The company say the deal will create a$32 billion global health and wellness leader and deliver about$2.1 billion in annual cost synergies. Kimberly-Clark expects the transaction to boost adjusted earnings by the second year. The current CEO of Kimberly-Clark, Mike Tsu, will lead the combined company. Now, just in terms of the calculus, Kimberly-Clark is indicated lower by 12%. So if you do the fraction, it brings the per share value for Kenview, I think, a bit under$20 a share. The stock was$21-ish when a lot of the Tylenol controversy happened, and the administration started to kind of blame acetaminophen for a lot of issues.

12:21So it kind of gets Kenview back toward that level. But interesting nonetheless. Yeah. But. Andrew, is that bad enough for them to think this wasn't so great? Or you think there there's implied liability from from acetaminophen or what? I mean, that's not a great market check for for the day you announce something, is it? It isn't. It isn't a great market check. I'm trying to make sense of this, though. Look at Kendrew's stock up now 19 percent. Right. But below. I want to dig into some of this a little bit more before I comment. I think there's got to be something going on underneath the covers here, but maybe I'm wrong.

12:59And whether they're covered on any future, you can't find where there's any. No, it doesn't seem to explicitly say that. But, I mean, I'll just say, you know, in terms of how stocks react, Kimberly-Clark, you know, is owned by people who are kind of dividend farmers, and you think it's a steady story, and so you have a big strategic move like this with some risks attached to it, and you'll probably get that reflex reaction. So we'll see. They're going to have a conference call, I think, jointly at 8 a.m. Yeah. Right. But don't you think it's got to be the risks? Look at those. I mean, that's what 12 and a half.

13:3213 percent is not is not. No, it's not. It's not just routine arbitrage. No. Right. Yeah. Sell one by the other. Yeah. That looks worse. All right. Before we go. Yeah. Mark Carney. That's fascinating to me that he sort of threw Doug Ford under the bus. I was just wondering, are those ads still running? Oh, wait, the World Series is over. You lost, Doug. I'm sorry. You lost. I mean, greatest seventh game in history? Pretty close. Probably best seventh game I've seen. Greatest MVP. It was pretty great. Greatest MVP. If you haven't learned that this can make a difference on whether you win the World Series or not, That was – and the collision out – the collision out – I thought it was over.

14:23Multiple times. That was the greatest game. Yeah, now I think, unfortunately or fortunately, a lot of teams are going to have their pitchers just train with javelins and stuff. That's what Yamamoto does. He doesn't use traditional training and everything else. He came out on zero days rest and pitched almost three innings. I like – I saw two Dodgers ran together and were celebrating, and Freddie Freeman and one of the other guys, one said to the other, We didn't do SACC. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't do SACC. We didn't do SACC. Fair enough. Tees will be next. Coming up next on SACC Pod, staffing shortages due to the government shutdown snarling plane traffic this weekend.

15:03Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy on air traffic controllers still on the job. I was frustrated at the start of the shutdown. The controllers hadn't missed any pay periods. But as we sit here today, we're, what, 34 days into a shutdown, and there's real consequences for the family members of these air traffic controllers.

15:26Welcome back. This is Squawk Pod. Stand by Joe. His mic. Q. You're watching Squawk Box on CNBC. I'm Joe Kernan, along with Andrew Ross Sorkin over in London. Classy place. It's noon here. It's noon. Yes, it is noon. We're back into line because we brought the clocks back an hour. Right. But that's how it happened. That's right. Mike Santoli. Yes. Obviously, you see, Becky is off today. It is day 34 of the government shutdown. Still no relief in sight for air traffic controllers. Joining us now, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. Mr. Secretary, it's good to see you this morning. We are we're near, I think, a real, I don't know, watershed moment.

16:14Newark could be totally closed down at some point, a full ground stop. Is that imminent? Well, listen, we're seeing like a rolling thunder throughout the system. It changes day by day of what facilities are low staff, which means we have significant delays or cancellations. You saw Newark yesterday was was incredibly rough, significant delays. But I think what as we look forward, Joe, this week, at the end of this week, air traffic controllers are going to get a pay stub email that's going to tell them how much they're going to be paid next week. And that's going to be zero. And the clear point from the controllers that I've spoke with said, listen, a lot of them can deal with missing one paycheck.

16:54But I can't. But many of them can. None of them can miss two paychecks. they all start their their their home finances fall apart and they're all going to have to look at taking second jobs or quitting and getting into another line of work and the consequence of that is very real for our air system we are two to three thousand air traffic controllers short i'm trying to put more air traffic controllers into the system and what this is doing is making it more challenging and actually taking controllers out of the system so i think this has long-term impacts beyond when democrats decide when you know their little temper tantrum is over and they decide open up the government.

17:30I'm just, this is leverage. I'm just wondering how it works. And, you know, the polls, Mr. Secretary, I, I, they're, I mean, I can explain them, but not favorable in certain ways to, to Republicans. But if you look at what the minority whip said in the Senate, she basically said, look, we know this is what's going to happen. There will be families and others that are going to suffer, but we need to leverage and we're willing to, apparently willing to use it during these negotiations. And this is one of the tipping points, I think, that's going to happen this week. Well, what is leverage? Their leverage is to hurt the American people, right?

18:08They're willing to hurt air travelers, whether they're going to a funeral, they're going to see family members, pretty soon we're going to have kids coming home from college for Thanksgiving break. They're willing to endanger poor people who can't get food stamps. They're willing to risk subsidies in regard to health insurance. They don't care who they hurt. They care about power. By the way, we had an election a little less than a year ago, and Donald Trump crushed it. He won the popular vote. He won the seven swing states. Democrats lost. And so if you want to pass legislation, you can introduce it.

18:39You can debate it. But government shutdowns trying to garner leverage is not the way that you do it. Debate it. Vote on it. And then come back and try to win elections. But they lost. Donald Trump won. And to now say that you are going to hurt the American people so Donald Trump has to talk to you, that's not the way you do business. The Trump administration and Republicans are not going to be held hostage by these kind of asinine tactics by Democrats. What could the government do? What would you suggest? If we can pay the military, how could we figure something out for the air traffic controllers?

19:17So there's strict rules around what we can pay and what we can't pay. in government shutdown. So we've kept our academy operational in the sense that we're paying our students in the academy a stipend that allows them to continue to get trained and pay their daily needs. We've paid for a central air service, air service that goes to smaller communities. We're pulling whatever money we legally can to keep the systems running. That's been the directive from the president. Don't try to inflict pain. Try to make this easier on the American people. Even President Trump kept SNAP running for an additional month from October to the 1st of November.

19:55We're trying to minimize the consequence. But when a government shutdown happens, you don't have resources. The Democrats haven't funded the government. And the consequence of that is there's only limited tools that we have. And so I can't just pull money from nowhere without violating the law and paying air traffic controllers. So I'm a bit in a box. and there's nothing I can do until Democrats again decide to put down their swords and sit at the table, pass a bill and then negotiate for their priorities. Is anyone who doesn't show at this point, are they going to be welcomed back or will they become a point where you just find somebody else?

20:35Because we already have a shortage, right? You need trained people. That's a great question. I was frustrated at the start of the shutdown. The controllers hadn't missed any pay periods. But as we sit here today, we're, what, 34 days into a shutdown, and there's real consequences for the family members of these air traffic controllers. Again, as you know, every day, new expenses come in. There's food expenses, there's gas in the car expenses, bills come in, whether it's your heating or electric bill, your rent or your mortgage was just due, your car payment was due. So there's real economic pain being inflicted.

21:12And I'm not going to, I'm not going to, you know, fire air traffic controllers who are trying to put food on their family's table. I am asking all of them to come to work. I want them to come to work. They have a job to do. I'm pleading with them to get into the towers and the facilities across the country and keep our airspace operational. But I also understand the real consequences of Democrat shutdown on the family lives of these controllers. And by the way, Joe, it's not just air traffic controllers. I have inspectors that are up looking at trains in different facilities across the country.

21:42I have people who are certifying airplanes that are all these people are working and they're working without pay. You know, we have really old technology in our in our air traffic control system. I have technicians that come in every day without pay to make sure that the equipment that the controllers are using is operational. So I have a whole slew of people who are coming in, not getting paid, but fighting for the American people to keep our transit system system working. And I think it's I think Democrats should respect them, you know, pay them. And again, you can sit down and you can introduce bills.

22:16You can you can debate those bills. You can vote on those bills. But this is not the way the process works. Joe, you and I are old enough to know. Remember Schoolhouse Rock? I'm just a bill on Capitol Hill. There's a way you pass legislation. This is not it by way of a shutdown. Holding the other side leverage. You lost the election. Republicans won. And now you hurt the American people to gain leverage. That's not the way the country works. And by the way, if Donald Trump, by the way, he's not going to do this, but he was to to cower to this pressure. You would just have shutdown after shutdown after shutdown from Democrats to try to leverage their position after they lost the last election.

22:55And that's not going to work. We're not going to do it. So we need to match what we what we can do with with safety. And that's that's you know, I don't even like talking about it, whether the air is safe. And I'm sure you're doing it that way. You've got to cut the number of flights that were actually allowed or allowed to operate based on the safety you can provide. At this point, you'd say the air is just as safe as it was when the government was open because there's a third or a half as many flights. So that's the consistent question I get. Is the system safe? And you see more delays. You see more cancellations of flights.

23:36And that's because we slow traffic down because we don't have enough controllers in the towers and TRACONs to make sure we can navigate the flights. So that's a tool that we have to keep the system safe. I'm going to tell you this, though. Does it introduce another element of risk? If I have a controller doing two jobs, and by the way, they're certified. They're able to do both of those jobs. But is there more risk in the system when you have a shutdown? Absolutely, there's more risk. But if we thought that it was unsafe, again, we'll shut the whole airspace down. We won't let people travel. We're not there at this point.

24:10It's just significant delays. But again, if you're canceled or if you're delayed for three hours or four hours on your flight, there's one side to blame. Republicans have voted to open up the government. By the way, Joe, the funding in October was the very same as it was per the Republicans' proposal in October. And these are Joe Biden-era funding levels. So Democrats keep voting to shut the government down. Republicans are voting to open it. So if your flight's delayed, call your Democrat senator. Tell him to open it up. tell them to have common sense and get our country moving and then sit down and go through the legislative process.

24:49And Mr. Secretary, I'm coming to you actually from London this morning and happened to have a flight that was canceled on my way here. As it happens, I went through sort of a real rigmarole to make it over here. My question is, I was talking to a pilot last night, actually, at Newark Airport on my way over here. We were discussing actually the safety issue, and he was saying exactly what you were saying, that it should be just as safe given that there's less, you know, planes that are coming in at any one time. But that invariably the planes oftentimes have to stay in the sky longer, meaning that they're doing lots of, you know, turns around the airport because of the delays to come in.