Bonus: The Path with Becky Quick: Dan and Nick Gilbert’s Rare Legacy 5/20/

6:07Dan Gilbert:Yeah, no more yo-yos, no more selling yo-yos.

6:10Nick Gilbert:People were complaining, cleaning them out.

6:12Dan Gilbert:Yeah, you know that yo-yo is an up and down business.

6:16Nick Gilbert:Ba-bum-bum. That's why. so the entrepreneurial spirit is something that I've always associated so closely with you I don't think you've ever shaped that right it's just part of who you are

6:28Dan Gilbert:no I know people describe like going zero to 30 30 to 60 60 to 90 in a business I always enjoy the zero to 30 launch the most and I think as you grow a business and get bigger and bigger you miss that so at that point you either got to recreate your business to become more entrepreneurial or you got to go find another idea and do it again if you want

6:49Nick Gilbert:to get that same juice let's talk a little bit about your family life sure you and Jennifer have five kids together correct and your oldest son Nick was born in the late 90s tell me about Nick as a baby a happy baby from day one he was happy his whole life actually but 15 months old the pediatrician discovered something called cafe au lait spots which means cafe au lait means coffee with cream and so

7:20Dan Gilbert:there's these spots on your skin and that's that's a sign of something called neurofibromatosis which is a genetic disorder most of the cases are genetic mutations in vitro one out of 2 ,500 births in the world and so like most parents who get that diagnosis we go neuro what no one's ever heard of it and anyone you ask no one's ever heard it's one of those rare diseases no one's ever heard of which I think is the problem with most rare diseases the parents get the diagnosis and nobody's heard of it you don't even know where to go really so you got it at that time the internet was brand new dove into that so it's a scary time for any parent yeah what what did it

8:01Nick Gilbert:mean in Nick's life early on besides the cafe la spots what what did you know at that time they

8:06Dan Gilbert:want you to do first of all let me tell you neurofibromatosis means literally means tumors on the nerve so this this genetic disease that it expresses itself with tumors on the nerves anywhere on the body at any time some people become very disfigured from it in their face you probably have seen people that have big tumor gross on their face some just get it on their spine his were in his brain and the first one was on his optic nerve between his eye and his brain and the concern then was his eyesight. So he had to do MRIs every like three or four months to make sure it wasn't growing. And it wasn't growing for the first five years until he was close to six years old.

8:47Dan Gilbert:And then it started growing. So at that point he had his first bow to chemotherapy at five and a half, six years old. But he took it like a champ like he did the whole time.

9:01Dan Gilbert:And after that point you're just still doing MRIs and you're watching for stuff. And he got brain tumors in his brain starting at 10 years old. He had his first major surgery at 10 years old, which we did in Washington, D.C. And then after that period of time, he was on and off various chemo agents, radiation from time to time. There's no cure. There's definitely no cure. Still is no cure. And so you manage it.

9:31Nick Gilbert:His surgery when he was 10, And I think you told him that he was going to have to have that surgery on his 10th birthday. Yes, he did.

9:39Dan Gilbert:He just wanted to know if there was macaroni in the hospital.

9:43Nick Gilbert:And that was a big tumor that they had to take out. How did the surgery go? How did he handle it?

9:50Dan Gilbert:Surgery went well. He handled it well. He was always a funny kid. He would question the nurses, did you go to school? He would do things like, he was just a funny, funny kid. I mean, he dealt with a lot of his condition, disease with humor. He was an optimist, and he was a hard worker. I mean, he always believed that he was going to get through all this, and so did we. And so on and off, we were fighting this, and he was doing fine for the most part until 2018 when there were some tumors. We just kind of got away from us. So we had two major surgeries that year. And from that point on until 2023 when we lost him, there were just surgeries, chemo, and finally in 2023, just two and a half years ago, we lost them.

10:43I mean, we tried everything, and the tumor grew too big.

10:49Dan Gilbert:These aren't cancerous malignant tumors. They're benign, but they can grow and cause all kinds of damage. The one that was a problem was in his brainstem, which is in a very bad place. It affects breathing. He started losing his hearing towards the end of his life, which was really frustrating. His eyesight was really, he was blinded, probably half-blinded most of his life from the tumors. But when he lost his hearing and his eyesight, he would tell me, Dad, I'm Helen Keller 2.0. But that was the worst part because, I mean, he couldn't hear, he couldn't see, he couldn't communicate. And he was all about communicating with people.

11:27Nick Gilbert:Yeah, he was well-loved.

11:30Dan Gilbert:Yeah, he was loved by everybody. Everybody that met him loved him, and he loved everybody.

11:35Nick Gilbert:We'll be right back.

11:39Becky Quick:At Venture Global, we think about what can be done, not what's usually done. Through innovation, Venture Global is not only building some of the largest energy facilities in the world right here in the United States, but delivering American energy at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time. So while others are busy talking, we're busy building. That's Venture Global. That's unstoppable energy. This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information-packed daily market preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading.

12:28Becky Quick:Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts. To realize the future America needs, we understand what's needed from us. To face each threat head on, we've earned our place in the fight for our nation's future. We are Marines. We were made for this.

12:56Nick Gilbert:Welcome back to The Path. I'm Becky Quick.

12:59Becky Quick:Joining us now is Dan Gilbert. He is founder of Quicken Loans, and the man has just bought the Cleveland Cavaliers.

13:05Dan Gilbert:Yeah, we're getting in the basketball business pending NBA approval here, and we're real excited about it.

13:11Nick Gilbert:Dan Gilbert purchased the NBA Cleveland Cavaliers for$375 million in 2005. At that time, the team's future looked brighter than its present did. LeBron James was coming off his Rookie of the Year season, but the team was struggling to rack up enough wins and be playoff contenders.

13:30Becky Quick:And joining us once again to announce the order of the top three picks.

13:33Nick Gilbert:In the 2011 NBA Draft Lottery, when the teams who missed the NBA playoffs got together to draw for pick order in the player draft, there were a few NBA executives, some front office types, and a 14-year-old boy.

13:47Becky Quick:The number one pick in the 2011 NBA draft belongs to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

13:55Nick Gilbert:Nick Gilbert in a suit and bow tie, just doing his job.

13:59Becky Quick:Nick, you're the ambassador for the National Children's Tumor Foundation, and you've been dealing with a nerve disorder since you were born. Your dad called you his own personal hero. How's that make you feel? Well, I mean, what's not to like?

14:15Nick Gilbert:What's not to like became a catchphrase for Nick and for the Cavs.

14:19Becky Quick:I'm going through this disease, but I'm going through it well. I'm getting better. Research is, with all the money people are donating, and yeah, everything's going good, I guess.

14:31Nick Gilbert:When he was just 14 years old, you let him pick up the mic.

14:35Dan Gilbert:Yeah, we rolled him out. He was representing us in the lottery. He had a bow tie on and big round glasses. And we still wear, I don't know if I have...

14:44Nick Gilbert:The bow tie's on your collar right now.

14:45Dan Gilbert:We still wear a bow tie collar to memorialize him. First of all, I want to thank Nick, the luck of the Nick. What's there not to like, Cleveland? And I'd just like to thank all the folks.

14:58Nick Gilbert:How did he take to that? I mean, it's kind of, it's a big deal to give your son the microphone and roll him out for the draft and have him do that. What's not to like? Congratulations. Enjoy this moment, guys. Well done. How did Nick think about that?

15:10Dan Gilbert:Well, he had so much unfairness most of his life because this disease also hurt his coordination and his fine motor skills. So he really couldn't play sports like everyone else. Because of his eyesight, he couldn't get his driver's license. So this was a big moment for him. And he really loved the opportunity. It became like almost his brand. Cleveland had logos in him with a basketball with glasses on and a bow tie. and his signature bow tie yes and Cleveland loved him so we rolled him out to the lottery the next three or four years unfortunately that we were in it

15:49Nick Gilbert:he was kind of a good luck charm yeah he got three first-round picks or first

15:53Dan Gilbert:picks out of four years so not bad he went to Michigan State love Michigan State and the Spartans he got through it took him five years or so to five and a half years to get through it but he had a lot of help there and he got through it he was working on a sports bar to be in downtown Detroit before he passed away for the two years before I mean he had a whole management team and everything picked out and after he passed away we still we built it anyway we called it Gillies which was what his friends called him it's great sports bar

16:25Nick Gilbert:in downtown so that's up and running he talked about you a lot and told people you were his best friend. Yeah. You've told people he was your hero.

16:40Dan Gilbert:Yes. Well, he was. You're not going to make me cry, are you?

16:46Nick Gilbert:I'm not trying to. No, but I think it's probably, I mean, he handled it like a champ. It was probably a lot harder for you to watch it.

16:55Dan Gilbert:It was very difficult. I wouldn't wish it on any parent.

17:00Nick Gilbert:That's part of the reason that you and your family foundation is doing so much.

17:04Dan Gilbert:Yes.

17:04Nick Gilbert:to try and find a cure. What have you done with that?

17:07Dan Gilbert:In his legacy, in his honor, we're trying to, still to this day, trying to wipe this disease off the planet. I mean, it's only one in 2 ,500 births, but when you're at a world of 8 billion people, that's still 2 million people that have this. And every year we have an honoree who has it at a benefit that we do in Detroit. This year we raised$12 million in one night. We keep breaking records. we're contributing about 50 million a year to research but it's it's difficult road because it's you know every drug as you know takes 17 years and probably two billion dollars to get through the finish line so if you have a rare disease like this it's it's hard to get the capital and the interest behind finding cures for this disease because not that the market size even if you are successful so small i think that's the problem with a lot of if not all of the rare diseases.

18:04Nick Gilbert:I guess there have been so many people who have tried to come at this. How do you create a bigger addressable market? We've spent time thinking about that too. And I guess one way is to try and find common ground between different diseases and common ways of going after that. Where are you guys just in terms of what you think is the most likely or best scientific approach at this point.

18:30Dan Gilbert:Every even rare disease has its advocates. If you put them together and hopefully find common things that you can work on together, or maybe even common cures that would cure across diseases, then you can convince others to come in because the market size would be so much bigger.

18:46Nick Gilbert:Right. And knocking down some of the roadblocks that get in the way. What amazes me is the incredible science that's out there. We can do a lot of things, not just in theory, but actually in the lab, it's just really hard to get it from there to the patients.

19:02Dan Gilbert:Exactly. Years and years and years. I think we have to find a better way. I know the FDA does a good job on first making sure a drug is safe and then for efficacy, the trials, but maybe they take too long. I'm not the one that's the expert of all the steps you go through, but I'm sure there's a lot of bureaucracy in there we could take out. and take time out.

19:26Nick Gilbert:Yeah, take time out and get it into human trials more quickly, maybe with better guidance for what you're looking for because most of the time the cures for these rare diseases don't have a whole lot of money behind them. So if you go down one pathway and it doesn't work, you don't have enough money to go start over.

19:46Dan Gilbert:A lot of times you don't have the time either. Right.

19:51Nick Gilbert:How did the rest of your kids, you and your wife, deal with all of this as you got this diagnosis and you went through it? The kids have, I mean, they were all close to the same age.

20:03Dan Gilbert:We had four kids in five years, and then we had a fifth kid, I don't know how, five years later. So they were very close, and they've actually joined together and created something called the Gilly Project, which is kind of bringing the fight to their generation. They do different events throughout the year, which is very nice to see, but definitely not easy for them. And my wife, our marriage did not survive this, as mostly happens to parents who lose a kid. So we actually got divorced just about officially a couple months ago. I didn't understand why. I read about that in the past. like why do marriages fail after losing a child and I didn't understand it now I understand it

20:49Nick Gilbert:yeah and it's losing a child it's dealing with the hardship along the way a lot of people grieve

20:55Dan Gilbert:much differently yeah and there's the reminders of the child in each other it's not easy I've

21:02Nick Gilbert:struggled with how much to talk about my daughter it's hard making that decision of whether to go public and win can be difficult. Did you and Jennifer struggle with that about whether to go public with?

21:14Dan Gilbert:I mean, I think so. Maybe she did a little bit more than me because I'm more sort of out there. Yeah. But, I mean, I'm fine with it. I'd rather that I talk about it and people are able to learn from it and it could positively impact the situation. Right. Nothing to hide.

21:31Nick Gilbert:Well, maybe other people who have a family member with it too. So I think it's a lonely path. And when you find out that there are other people walking it, I think that helps a lot too.

21:42Dan Gilbert:It definitely helps.

21:44Nick Gilbert:Did you think about that before or was it just kind of a natural thing when you first started talking about NF?

21:51Dan Gilbert:That was one of the reasons why we decided to do this annual benefit in Detroit every year. Because we do invite NF families, if you will, from all over the country. We honor one. We had a kid this year. She's eight years old from North Carolina, I believe. Was she from North Carolina? Do you remember?

22:08Becky Quick:No, she's from St. Louis.

22:10Dan Gilbert:St. Louis. Okay. Close. Just kidding.

22:13Nick Gilbert:It's not Detroit.

22:15Dan Gilbert:She was eight years old. Her name was Harper Grace. In front of 1 ,800 people, we gave her this award, and she grabbed the microphone and sang a song. I mean, everybody's crying. And then at that moment, that's when we asked for the donations. Perfect.

22:33Nick Gilbert:The kid's a natural leader. The deeper I get into this, the more I realize other people need to hear so that they see they're not alone.

22:44Dan Gilbert:Yeah, just being around parents who have these kinds of situations, just talking to other parents has got to be helpful. Yeah. It certainly doesn't hurt.

22:56Becky Quick:You never forget your first fan.

22:57Dan Gilbert:So how was practice, kiddo?

22:59Becky Quick:My mom inspired me to dream big and ask myself, what would you like the power to do? My answers helped me become the soccer player I am today, trusting my instincts and stepping onto the pitch without fear. Bank of America champions U.S. men's national team member Tyler Adams. And everyone who dares to ask, what would you like the power to do?

23:17Nick Gilbert:Bank of America, proud to be the official bank of U.S. soccer and FIFA World Cup 2026. Bank of America N.A. member FDSP.

23:25Becky Quick:This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information-packed daily market preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts. To realize the future America needs, we understand what's needed from us. to face each threat head on. We've earned our place in the fight for our nation's future.

24:05Becky Quick:We are Marines. We were made for this.

24:13Nick Gilbert:This is The Path. I'm Becky Quick. All of this was happening not only while you were building this incredible company, rocket companies, and adding a bunch of other companies along the way, but what you were doing here in Detroit. Right. I mean, we're 12 years out from the bankruptcy of Detroit. And this is a different place.

24:31Dan Gilbert:Yeah, it is. I mean, we definitely had a big part of leading that, but there's been a lot of people involved in this rebirth here. And it's very exciting to see and it's very exciting to feel the energy of the place. I mean, we made sure early on that we aligned ourselves with all the important groups and leadership of the city, the community. I mean, the police force, you name it. so we had a very kind of like intentional strategy in making sure that we were all in one boat growing together, others in the business community. And we did have a big bang approach to be able to do it at one time because I think it's really hard to do separate categories of needs.

25:14Dan Gilbert:I mean, you can't just build three blocks of retail and say now it's time to build some apartments. I mean, because they all feed off each other. Right, you can't build it piecemeal.

25:24Nick Gilbert:Right. But it's really hard to think of the big bang happening in a town, in a city.

25:32Dan Gilbert:It is. I mean, we were fortunate enough to have a high employee count. I mean, when you have up to 15 ,000 team members like us, it is like having an army. And they'll do so much. Our people are so committed to it. And the concept of us having this mission attracts better and better people. Because great people want to be part of a mission above and beyond their paycheck. so that all works nicely together

25:56Nick Gilbert:did you know that getting into it or have you learned that along the way

25:59Dan Gilbert:I think we learned it along the way

26:01Nick Gilbert:what other isms do you have

26:03Dan Gilbert:I can get you the book for$19.95 plus shipping and handling okay numbers and money follow they do not lead so we never lead with money we're in things for long term

26:21Dan Gilbert:we're always trying to raise our people's level awareness as we say want all of our team members eyeballs on everything not just two of the chairman or two of the CEO because from a ground-up approach you get so much information and so much I did so many ideas from people are doing the real work and all that adds up if you ask me about the isn't I'll talk about him for 20 hours and that was that'll take up the next two days of program I do want one of the books you're a good salesman though Dan you've

26:49Nick Gilbert:had your own health setbacks too yes you dealt with a stroke in May of 2019 yes six and a half years ago and I'm I've recovered somewhat from it but it's

27:00Dan Gilbert:still got a long ways to go still trying new rehab options and different treatments but I'm walking with a cane and I'm confident I'll walk again soon but it's just been taking a long time yeah but you've been hard working and

27:16Nick Gilbert:You've been working hard at it. I think about you all the time with all of the things that you're doing. First, handling your own health issues, grieving for your son and pushing for him for so many years. But you did that while you were also building this huge company and while you've been rebuilding the city of Detroit. How in the world do you separate all that? Does it meld together? How do you figure that out?

27:41Dan Gilbert:It kind of melds together. I mean, basically when you have these situations, I think you've just got to, it's just what's going to happen next. You can't focus on the past. There's nothing you can do. I mean, when you're dealt a card like I was dealt with the stroke or myself, you just have to get the next card and try to play it. I mean, things you can't control. So you've got to work on the things you try to control. and we dove into the foundation and finding cures for this disease so other kids and other families don't have to continue to suffer from it.

28:13Nick Gilbert:Did you deal with it the same way that you deal with business?

28:17Dan Gilbert:I'd say we tried to approach it in that way.

28:19Nick Gilbert:Which means what?

28:20Dan Gilbert:Hire the best possible people to run it, the great leadership, give them the best culture, give them the capital that they need, try to find relationships that they'll benefit by. I mean, when you do have a large business, you do have the luxury of having a lot of assets and relationships and political power, if you will, to make things happen. So, I mean, that's been fortunate we're in that position. I often wonder how the average Joe gets through all this. It's not easy.

28:55Nick Gilbert:I do, too. So is it ever frustrating to think, you know, you've got billions of dollars and yet you can't fix everything?

29:04Dan Gilbert:You can't. No, that's a sobering thing. Sometimes you feel like maybe that's the message I'm getting.

29:14Dan Gilbert:You can't fix everything, so you just try to take one step in front of the next and do the best you can.

29:24Nick Gilbert:What do you think you've learned most from Nick? Well, I've learned that you can't, because, I mean, he didn't fully recover,

29:33Dan Gilbert:but he did have times where he surprised us all. He graduated college. He kept a great friend group his whole life. He was just a funny, incredible person. I know everybody says that about their kid, but he really was. So you learn a lot from that, that he can be in pain and going through all this stuff. and not have what everybody else has, but he somehow made progress. So in his name, that's what we have to do.

30:00Nick Gilbert:And I think he has a jersey at the Cleveland Cavs Arena, too.

30:05Dan Gilbert:Yes, we did. We retired his jersey with a bow tie on it.

30:08Becky Quick:Everybody, one time for Nick. Get a rally tally in your hand, and let's go crazy for him right now. Three, two, one.

30:21Becky Quick:Make some noise for our very own Nick Gilbert! We'll never forget you, buddy.

30:34Nick Gilbert:You think you can tackle this disease? You think there is a cure in the future?

30:38Dan Gilbert:I do believe there is. We're working on something. Our biggest hope is this process called organoids, which we have these scientists that we're funding who grow organs in a dish, literally. And then they grow tumors that are similar to the tumors the patients have and can try multiple drug combinations on the tumor in the organoid to see if it helps it and doesn't hurt the organ. It's really a miracle.

31:08Nick Gilbert:I mean, it's a faster process and probably one that is much more reflective of how those drugs would act in the body than doing humanoid mouse models or even primates.

31:19Dan Gilbert:And they can be individualized. Although that's expensive, it really does matter because at this level, one drug does not fit all. Everybody's so different genetically and everything else.

31:31Nick Gilbert:If there was anything you'd want other people to know about Nick, what would it be? Well, I mean, I have a whole file of funny moments that he lived through.

31:43Dan Gilbert:I mean, I can give you a few if you want. Yeah. Well, he sat next to Kid Rock at a basketball game, and I'm watching him. This isn't at the Cavs game. This is at a Pistons game. And I'm watching from the other side of the court. I had different seats. All of a sudden, I see Kid Rock going up the stairs to the concessions. After the game, I asked Kid Rock, what were you doing? He said, well, your son needed chips and cheese, so I had to go get him. So he convinced Kid Rock to go get him some chips and cheese. That's pretty persuasive. He was a salesman. When the surgeon looked at him and asked him right before one of his surgeries when he was, I think, 10, do you have any questions after he went through the whole process?

32:28Dan Gilbert:Nick looks at him and says, just one. Can I leave now? And do you have macaroni downstairs? I mean, he was like that with everything, just funny on the spot. he had the softest hands of any human in the world.

32:43Nick Gilbert:I love that. Thank you for sharing your stories about Nick. And I know so many people miss him too. Yeah, so I appreciate that. And thank you for your time. Thank you.

32:58Nick Gilbert:As we finished our conversation, Dan and I spent a few quiet moments just catching up. I honestly don't know how you do all of this. I really don't. When I thanked him for his time, he said something that keeps coming back to me. No one gets out of this life unscathed. The humility and the acceptance in that and the commitment that it took to continue to look for treatments as a possible cure for other children, that is something that has really stuck with me. It may not be quite one of Dan's isms, but it is a reminder that we are all walking this path together. Thank you for being here and thank you for walking it with us.

33:37Nick Gilbert:You can subscribe to the CNBC Cures newsletter for our latest stories, video clips, and more resources. Just send us an email if you'd like to, cnbc.cures at cnbc.com. I'll tell you, I am finding a lot of hope in many of your stories, and we really appreciate it. Episodes of The Path are on YouTube, cnbc.com, and podcast platforms. In our next episode, the unforgettable story of value investor Guy Spear. He's been diagnosed with the rare brain cancer glioblastoma. Guy closed his nearly$500 million fund and he returned the money to investors. In his time remaining, he wants to focus on what really matters.

34:17The median survival rate is like 14 or 15 months for this.

34:22Becky Quick:And somehow I'm going strong. So every day it's basically a gift. So I might as well celebrate. The batting average of the Grim Reaper is 100%. You know, he gets us all in the end. But I don't like this idea of a battle of cancer or a battle with any disease, because at the end of the day, we all die. And I like this idea of you're playing a game against the Green Reaper. And for every day that you're around, our job is to win as many points against the Green Reaper as we possibly can.

34:56Nick Gilbert:Thank you to our producers and the team at CNBC for their work and their support on this. We will see you next time.

35:26Becky Quick:that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.