Capitalism’s New Low in America 9/8/25

0:00Bring in show music please. Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod. Support for capitalism has dropped to a new low among Americans. Florida Senator Rick Scott is still a believer, but he understands frustrations. What government has done is made it very difficult for the poor to get hit. The cost of everything has gone up, and a lot of it is government regulation. You can't get a permit. You can't start a business. Ohio gubernatorial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy sees the rising interest in socialism as an opportunity for his party. I want to see Republicans use this as a wake-up call to affirmatively make the case for capitalism itself.

0:43And inside the vaccine agenda of the nation's highest health care official, Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Scott Gottlieb, former commissioner of the FDA, joins us. I think Kennedy's at odds with both the president's ethos around these things and certainly members of the Senate. Plus, special guests at the U.S. Open men's final, including President Trump. The crowd, some of which was applauding loudly and others were booing. It's Monday, September 8th, 2025, a very special week for Squawk Box. This is a program where things are unscripted. We're looking for news to break. Very unscripted. Very unscripted.

1:21There is no script, folks. Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand Becky by in 3, 2, 1. Cue it, please. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We're live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Andrew Ross-Sorkin. Joe is out today. And yeah, Andrew, I did notice that the winner of the lottery came from either Texas or Missouri, so I knew it wasn't going to be you because you said you wouldn't tell us if you won. Yes, that's true. So the only way I knew was that. A boy can dream, though. A boy can still dream. Even now, I still. But I did look at that.

1:58I thought, oh, Andrew didn't win. Thanks. Sorry. I knew that was high on your news headlines of the morning. Well, you said you weren't going to tell us. That's true. And I was like, okay, process of elimination. Pretty sure that's not him. Meantime, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant rejecting the idea that the U.S. is in a jobs recession. He spoke with NBC's Meet the Press following Friday's employment report showing just 22 ,000 jobs were created in August. Here's what he had to say. We're not going to do economic policy off of one number. We believe that good policies are in place that are going to create good, high-paying jobs for the American people.

2:36On President Trump's tariffs, Secretary Besson is saying he's confident the Supreme Court will uphold the levies. If not, he said the refunds that the U.S. would have to offer would be, in his words, terrible for the Treasury. One of President Trump's potential picks to be the next Fed chair, making a call for central bank independence. National Economic Council director Kevin Hassett appearing on CBS's Face the Nation. He was asked about CBS polling showing a majority of Republicans want the Fed to be guided by what President Trump wants. Here's Hassett's response to that. If I were in that survey, then I would say 100 percent that monetary policy, federal reserve monetary policy, needs to be fully independent.

3:20of political influence, including from President Trump. Hassett noting countries in which leaders have taken over central banks have seen inflation and consumer hardship. And probably worth pointing out, the president said over the weekend that it's back to three people. You know, all of this sound and fury about who was going to be considered, all of these different interviews that were taking place. You know, Besant has taken himself out of the whole thing. But it's it's Kevin Warsh, Kevin Hassett and Waller who are the three in the running for this. I don't know if you saw in today's Wall Street Journal, Ken Griffin out with an op ed publicly criticizing Trump.

3:58I mean, you talk about we've actually the first time that I've seen a CEO criticize Trump as directly. I mean, we've always talked about, you know, in the context, by the way, of Fed independence, just to read you what he said. He said publicly criticizing the Fed, suggesting the dismissal of governors and pressuring the central bank to adopt a more permissive stance towards inflation, carry steep costs and goes on and on and on. But it's just interesting because we've talked about, you know, this is something that most, I think, CEOs in America think is a problem. And yet there's been sort of almost a stunning silence for the most part from them directly.

4:38And so to see Ken out there today is pretty interesting. Meanwhile, if you actually. He's generally supported Republicans, I believe. He's actually such an interesting Republican because he's supported Republicans. And yet even once President Trump won, he was one of the few CEOs who said, you know, there's there's things that he does that I don't like. So it's actually it's it's been interesting. Kevin, Kevin Hassett. I was also going to say Secretary Besson out with his own paper over the weekend or maybe on Friday talking about how he thinks the Fed actually needs to narrow its mandate and shift what it actually does, which is a whole other story.

5:20Because there's people at the Fed, of course, who think that it's important that they have these regulatory functions and other component parts. But he has spoken out about that, I think, even on this show. The Treasury Secretary, when he's been on in the past, the idea that he would like to narrow the mandate. He talked about it, I believe, in the last month or so on our show, maybe the last six weeks, where he doesn't want them to get involved in some of the things that he thinks are pretty far afield from the two mandates the Fed actually holds. It's kind of crystallizing what he'd hinted at a lot before.

5:53I should tell you, I went to tennis yesterday, but interestingly, Besant was in the box with Trump, who was in the box with Bondi, but sitting next to Besant, Yasser from Saudi. Okay. Sort of an interesting watch for everybody. President Donald Trump spent his Sunday, as we just mentioned, at the U.S. Open in New York. He was greeted with a mixed reaction. The crowd, some of which was, you know, applauding loudly and others were booing. The crowd, as he stepped out of the president's box before the match, many seats in the stadium were empty at the time due to enhanced security checks. This happened.

6:33There was two times he sort of that there was sort of cheers and other other things going on. There were a lot of security checks. It delayed the game by half an hour. I was I was in the line as well. There was a lot of security. Trump joined by a few other notable people at Arthur Ashe, including, as we mentioned earlier, well, we'll go through this list here, Attorney General Pam Bayondi, and then his press secretary, Jared Kushner, of course, there, his daughter sharing the president's game box, and special envoy Steve Witkoff seen sitting next to the president. Notably, the president was in the box of Swiss giant Rolex.

7:12The Trump administration hit Switzerland with some of the biggest of the worldwide tariffs So we imagine there might have been some pleas around tariffs in that box going on. But they did bring out the trophy. We didn't really I don't think we said that Besson was there. But as I said, if you if we panned a little farther over, Yasser sat next to Scott the whole time. And there were a whole bunch of Wall Street folks who I think were clocking that. But by the way, putting aside this piece of it, it was a hell of a match. It really was. And by the way, the president stayed to the bitter end. and watched the ceremony at the end and everything else and stood the entire time.

7:48That's good. Somebody caused a real interruption at the left mid. And, you know, there had been these reports that the Tennis Association had told ABC that if there's booing of the president, you're not to air it. That was on George Report. I don't know about any of that. There was a bunch of times, the first time he came out, and maybe there were less people in the stadium, you did hear apparently there was some booing, but there was another period of time where he seemed to step out and it was very loud. So I think there were some people who were cheering him. There were some people right below him that seemed to be very excited.

8:21Which, by the way, it's generally a pretty quiet place, too. You can hear just about anything that happens there, even when somebody makes a comment because of the way the stadium's set up. Oh, yes. No, but this would be like when the whole place erupted one way or the other. And I don't think you could get a full... I'm just saying, if somebody wanted to heckle, you could in a place like that. Yes. It was quiet at some point. Yes, there wasn't. Actually, that's true. So throughout the whole match, there was nobody like stopping, screaming, Trump, Trump, this or that. You'd get kicked out immediately.

8:48But you could have your moment if you wanted to. And that didn't happen. Yeah. Relatives of the Trump administration official who has accused Fed Governor Lisa Cook of mortgage fraud have reportedly themselves listed two properties in separate states as their primary residence. Reuters says that Mark and Julie Pulte, who are the father and stepmother of Federal Housing Finance Agency Director Bill Pulte, have claimed housing exemptions for homes in Michigan and Florida since 2020. That could save them thousands of dollars a year. Last week, ProPublica reported that at least three of the president's cabinet members call multiple homes their primary residences on mortgages.

9:27Bill Pulte has been leading a campaign against Fed Governor Lisa Cook for weeks over alleged mortgage fraud. President Trump fired Cook last month. She is currently fighting her termination and that case is now in court. Probably worth pointing out that this is not a case. The Reuters story is not a case of mortgage fraud with the banks. This is a case where they were claiming homestead exemption claims, which are state based claims. You can face fines and back pay and penalties that come up for something like this. It is not something that Bill Pulte at the FHAFA would have any authority over because these are state violations.

10:05It's different than what he is accusing Lisa Cook of doing, which is, you know, you could spend some time, I think, in prison with some of these mortgage fraud claims. Still, a lot of people looking and claiming second homes as their primary residence. It happens a lot, particularly in Washington, and there's definitely a spotlight on any activity like this at this point. Lots more to think about. Up next on Squawk Pod, different solutions to the same affordability crisis. Capitalism versus socialism with two staunch capitalists, Florida Senator Rick Scott and Ohio gubernatorial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy.

10:45They're looking for national clues in 2025's local elections, like in New York City. Let me go compete. Let me in the game. But you don't even let me in the game if you don't start out rich. Think about housing as an example of this, too. I mean, he's running Mamdani here in New York, and many people across the country would be smart to run on bringing down the cost of housing. We'll be right back.

11:11Welcome back. This is Squawk Pod celebrating 30 years of Squawk Box. Here's Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. All this week, we are celebrating the 30th anniversary of Squawk Box. And we're going to start this morning with a look back at the very first show. It was a mission statement from the late, great Mark Haynes. And it's a mission that we try and uphold here every morning. I'm Mark Haynes. This is Squawk Box, a program like none you've ever seen before. Our goal is to give you an edge as Wall Street begins the market day. We'll take you behind the scenes on Wall Street as major traders stake out their positions.

11:48We'll take you live to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Again, that is the late, great Mark Haynes. That was the very first Squawk Box. We are celebrating our 30th anniversary this week, although I think they actually launched in August, so we're just past 30 years at this point. Mark laid it out from the very get-go. We try and do things differently here. This is a program where things are unscripted. We're looking for news to break. Very unscripted. Very unscripted. There is no script, folks. People think that there's a script. Sometimes. There's a rough script. We rarely follow it, but there is a rough script there.

12:23But again, this is 30 years in the making now. And that first show, that was Joe Kernan, who's been here through the entire thing. He's not here today, but he's been here through the entire part for this. David Faber on the show back then. The brain. The people who have gone through the program from Maria Bartiromo to Carl Quintanilla. And here we are today. Here we are. But we're going to be celebrating all of this week. bringing back a lot of big guests and just trying to stay true to that mission that's always been here, that we follow the news, we ask the questions, and we're on the fly, kind of running with things.

13:03And I thought our music was bad now. Well, that's what, yeah, I don't know if people heard you. You said, I thought the opening, I thought our opening now was cheesy. This is a little bit different, but we've come a long way. It's all good. It's an amazing thing, and it's a privilege to be part of something that has now been around for 30 years. There it is. Dance to it. You can dance to it. There you go.

13:31New Gallup poll released this morning finding that Americans' positive image of capitalism has fallen to a new low. Just 54 % of U.S. adults surveyed view capitalism positively. That's down from 60 % in 2021. It's the lowest level since Gallup began asking that question in 2010. Our next guests are here in New York City today to talk about New Yorkers, about what they say are the dangers of socialism, and to share their ideas on how to manage their future if Mondani becomes the next mayor of New York City. We just had, of course, Governor Cuomo, who's running for mayor. Florida Senator Rick Scott is here, and Ohio gubernatorial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy.

14:08Good morning to both of you. Good morning. Morning. What do you think is good? Socialism is bad. If you like capitalism, move to Florida. When the vec is the governor, he's going to make it a place where you want to move to Ohio. Okay, so the big question, though, is you look at these polls and you look at, you know, even just the Democratic race here in New York City and the way the numbers seem to. And there's clearly a major gap in terms of the favorability and view of capitalism. And what do you think that actually is about, to the degree that you believe it's a misunderstanding or a miseducation or a miss something, how you go about fixing that beyond us having this conversation?

14:48We're going to go talk about opportunity. I'm a kid that grew up under capitalism. I grew up in public housing, never known my natural father. And I had the opportunity in this country to go build companies and eventually run for governor and run for the Senate. That's what we ought to be talking about, the fact that you can come from anywhere in this country and do something. Under socialism, that's clearly not true. I do think it's a fact of the matter. My parents came to this country as legal immigrants four-plus decades ago. They never imagined I'd go on to found multibillion-dollar companies now running to be the governor of the very state where I was born and raised.

15:20And the extraordinary thing about our country is that Rick Scott's story, my story, are actually not that extraordinary in the United States, that this is the country on God's green earth where that's possible. Now, beyond just talking about it, I think we have to put some more meat on the bone as well. when it comes to participating in equity ownership. And I think this is the big difference between the wealthy and everybody else, is do you participate in the uncapped upside that capitalism creates? And I think the left with baby bonds and universal basic income, they have a shred of an intuition that they channel in totally the wrong way.

15:53What I want to focus on and what we're going to do in Ohio is incorporate financial literacy starting at a young age. Engage in what Albert Einstein called the most powerful force in the universe, compound interest, starting young, where I want to build a state where every kid who's born, raised, living, and working in Ohio grows up to be a millionaire in our state, the best way to combat the popularity of socialism, Andrew, is actually to make everyone a capitalist by making them an owner in those uncapped upside equity-accreting assets. Here's the question, though. So here in New York, one of the things that Mondami seems to have been able to capture is this idea of affordability being a problem.

16:27Because it is a problem. Because it is a problem. It's a genuine, real problem. And I think it's not just a problem here in New York. I think it's a problem across the whole country. And there are so many families that literally are just scraping to get by every week, every month, every day. You know, you and I went to the U.S. Open yesterday. It was it's it's a fabulous event. And the truth is, most people in America cannot afford to go to something like that. They can't afford to actually go to an NFL game necessarily. They can watch it on TV. And as a result, I think there is this view of this sort of haves and have-nots thing that's happened in this country and how you can create a sort of better system.

17:02I don't know if it's a better system, but a way, a better system, ultimately, for this to work. What government has done is made it very difficult for the poor to get ahead. The cost of everything has gone up, and a lot of it is government regulation. You can't get a permit. You can't start a business. You can't even get ahead. So if you think my first business was a donut shop, I just got out of the Navy. You know how many permits I had to have? None. I didn't have to have one permit. Today, it would take you months. And in New York City, it's probably worse than almost any place in the country.

17:36So if you think about what we've done and how we've hurt the poor, you made it very difficult because of regulations and permits and fees. And you have to have this standard. You have to have this test. You have to have this degree. You have to have this. let me go compete. Let me in the game. But you don't even let me in the game if you don't start out rich. Think about housing as an example of this, too. I mean, he's running Mamdani here in New York, and many people across the country would be smart to run on bringing down the cost of housing. You want to bring down the cost of housing? Rent controls aren't the way to do it.

18:05The way to do it is increase the supply of what actually matters. Increase the supply of new home construction. What gets in the way? Rent restrictions, land use restrictions, red tape in the way. Think about energy. Electricity costs in my part of the country are 50 percent higher this summer than they were last summer. How do you solve the problem? Increase the supply of energy production. And yet a lot of those far left policies, while well intended for the best of them, are actually resulting in hurting the very people they intended to help by creating higher housing and energy costs. That's why there's a lot of people who say, Mom, Domi would be the perfect solution.

18:38Let him get elected. Let people see what happens when you have some of these far-left solutions. Do you agree with that? So I think electorally, I mean, out of taking my self-interest out of it, I'm running in the 26th cycle, I think Republicans will undoubtedly do better if Mamdani is elected, which appears to be on track to happen. I'm not rooting for that because I think that New York City is a great American city and we want to see New York City thrive and set a positive example rather than a negative one. That being said, some lessons do end up having to be learned the hard way. And you want to combat the popularity of socialism?

19:07Well, if you see the result of those socialist policies, people are going to be open to a different alternative. What I want to see, Becky, though, is I want to see Republicans use this as a wake-up call to affirmatively make the case for capitalism itself, the original version. And if we do that, we're going to be successful. I have a maybe complicated, I think a complicated question for both of you. We are now in a very unique moment in the Republican Party, at least in what Trump's Republican Party, around the idea of what capitalism and free markets are. You look at the transaction that took place with Intel, what's happening potentially with AMD and NVIDIA.

19:43We can go down the line when it comes to industrial policy, tariffs and the like. These are not considered free market principles at all. In fact, some people would describe these as socialist principles. What say you? Let's take Intel as an example. They got, I think,$4 billion out of the CHIPs Act. I completely oppose the CHIPs Act. So here what we said is, oh, here, you know, Intel, you get$4 billion. You don't have to actually operate a plant. You can still. And the CEO of Intel said, oh, I'm going to. I asked him in a hearing. Are you going to keep doing business in China? Yeah. I said, if they invade Taiwan, you're going to keep doing business in China.

20:21Absolutely. So if you look at look at what it look at, what's happened is, you know, whether any of us would believe that you should get, you know, interest in a company. If that's the way we're going to get a return on the$4 billion we put up, if that's the only way we're going to get a return, then we ought to get a return. But look, I did economic development when I did it as governor, okay? And I did it by, I said, I will help you, but it's tied to how much do you pay? How many jobs do you create? Do you keep those jobs? That's what we should be doing. And that's not what happened with the CHIPS Act.

20:53Where do you land on that? Just because it is an interesting phenomenon. We are in an industrial policy world. By the way, this could be busting the myth that there are free markets at all. I mean, some people would argue under Democrats there wasn't a free market either insofar as there were either giveaways or grants or other things for different industries. I mean, you could go down that line, but it is a different approach. Well, here's what I'll say, Andrew. The modern Republican Party is a big tent coalition. I have my views within that coalition. I believe that capitalism is the best system known to the history of man to lift people up from poverty.

21:24And I give President Trump for unifying what is a big tent coalition. Now, to pick up where Senator Scott left off on the Chips Act, I'll give you my perspective. I think the Chips Act was a mistake. It was based on this false premise that we're trying to imitate China, where China showered a bunch of semiconductor companies with money. Didn't go very well. They're being investigated for corruption, which is the sign that it failed. In the U.S., we shouldn't copy that method by having showered them, as we did under the Biden administration. But let's get to the root cause. Why is TSMC slowing down a little bit in Arizona or not as fast as they would have wanted to be?

21:54it's in part because we don't exactly have yet the skilled workers to build those sub 10 nanometer leading edge semiconductors, which goes back to deeper root causes that I'm looking to address in our educational system. I mean, the average student right now in the United States is four full academic years behind the average student in China. A seventh grader here is performing at the same academic standard as a third grade student in China. That's unacceptable. And do we need leaders, frankly, if not in the Democratic Party, at least in the Republican Party, focusing on those root causes? Absolutely.

22:27And I think we're going to be unified around that. But certainly in Ohio, looking at state leadership, that's where my focus remains. Unfortunately, we're out of time. This is a longer conversation. We could do a whole episode, if not longer. We could do a whole day. Three days on this. I want to thank Senator Rick Scott for being with us. Vivek Ramoswamy, thank you for being with us as well. As we head to a break, another Squawk 30 moment. Do you remember where you were when the Dow hit 10 ,000? I believe we've just broken 10 ,000. Let's go. 10 ,000 has been touched, and it was certainly a bit of celebrating.

23:01Now everybody's pretty much back to business. Mark, back to you. Okay, for a minute there, I thought we weren't going to make it on our show, but tradition has once again been upheld, and the 1 ,000 mark, the millennium mark falls while Squawk Box is on the air.