In short
The episode covers two main stories: new U.S. tariffs on Canadian goods and the FDA’s handling of a cyclospora outbreak linked to lettuce. On tariffs, U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer explains that the Trump administration is imposing 50% duties on a subset of Canadian imports (e.g., wine, spirits, dairy-related access issues, and auto supply-chain items like “hockey sticks” and cement mentioned in the segment) under Section 338, taking effect 30 days after signing. Key claim: the tariffs are retaliation for Canada’s earlier trade measures (e.g., limiting U.S. alcohol sales, capping/limiting autos, and restricting U.S. dairy market access) and are meant to push reshoring and reduce the U.S. trade deficit.
Notable examples
Canada’s dairy access via co-ops; EU dairy access as a comparison; and the administration’s focus on auto supply chains. On cyclospora, former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb says the FDA’s “false positive” test is a red herring; epidemiology still points to a Great Lakes cluster tied to shredded iceberg lettuce from Mexico supplied by Taylor Farms. He notes cyclospora is hard to trace via whole-genome sequencing and recommends whole heads of lettuce over bagged.
Guests
Eamon Javers (CNBC reporter) and Jameson Greer (U.S. Trade Representative), plus Dr. Scott Gottlieb (former FDA head).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VONew Tariffs on Canadian Goods
0:00 to 0:24
Discussion on the newly imposed 50% tariffs on Canadian imports.
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New Tariffs on Canadian Goods
0:30 to 0:58
Discussion on the newly imposed 50% tariffs on Canadian imports.
“the award-winning trading platforms loaded with features that let you dive deeper into the market.”
New Tariffs on Canadian Goods
2:11 to 4:50
Discussion on the newly imposed 50% tariffs on Canadian imports.
“Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC.”
Retaliation and Trade Practices
4:50 to 6:04
Analyzing the reasons behind the tariffs and Canadian responses.
“Now, according to senior administration officials, the new Canadian tariffs apply to all designated goods, whether or not those goods are compliant with the existing trade framework known as USMCA.”
Air Force One Upgrades
6:04 to 8:30
Updates on President Trump's new Air Force One and its enhancements.
“Okay, so that's a slice of the exports from Canada, but what's it in retaliation for?”
Future of Stock Trading Hours
8:30 to 10:49
Discussion on extended trading hours and implications for markets.
“He can tell us exactly what caused all of this and set things up.”
Cyclospora and Taco Bell
10:49 to 14:00
Exploration of the Cyclospora outbreak linked to Taco Bell's lettuce.
“I mean, you know, this is like eight minute abs.”
Introduction to Trade Issues
14:00 to 14:59
Discussion of ongoing concerns about food safety and upcoming trade topics.
“They said it was a false positive, but they still think it's not only iceberg lettuce, but from this and this Taylor farm.”
Introduction to Trade Issues
15:04 to 15:17
Discussion of ongoing concerns about food safety and upcoming trade topics.
“Soccer teaches us lessons we can take with us long after we leave the field.”
Introduction to Trade Issues
15:48 to 16:14
Discussion of ongoing concerns about food safety and upcoming trade topics.
“fixing up the backyard, or getting the bedroom we actually want.”
Show all 18 chapters
Discussion with Jamison Greer on Tariffs
16:33 to 18:59
Jamison Greer discusses the tariffs imposed by President Trump on Canadian goods.
“A couple of questions, I guess, come to mind.”
Impacts of Trade Actions on the U.S. Economy
18:59 to 22:59
Exploring the implications of tariffs on U.S.-Canada relations and manufacturing.
“So for the dairy, for example, the United States, we're very competitive in dairy production and cheese.”
AI Competition and Trade Issues
22:59 to 26:18
Discussion on the rise of AI in China and its implications for trade.
“I think also if we can have an arrangement with Mexico, with Canada, that we are trying to emphasize Canadian, Mexican, U.S.”
State of U.S.-Canada Relations
26:18 to 28:00
Ambassador Greer clarifies current trade relations and future outlook between the U.S. and Canada.
“Ambassador, could you just clarify how you think our relationship with Canada stands right now, particularly with the USMCA, with that not being renewed for 16 years?”
The Impacts of Offshoring and Tariffs
28:00 to 30:54
Discussion on offshoring, tariffs, and the implications of forced labor laws.
“I think you have to understand that the American people, they don't want offshoring.”
Introduction to Cyclospora Outbreak
30:55 to 31:20
Highlighting the FDA's reversal on the cyclospora contamination in lettuce.
“Still to come on Squawk Pod, the FDA reversing its false positive on lettuce, potentially contaminated with cyclospora.”
Challenges in Tracing Cyclospora
31:21 to 38:15
Exploration of the difficulties in identifying sources of cyclospora infections.
“You can't really do that here with CycloSport.”
Consumer Confidence and Food Safety
38:16 to 41:05
Discussion on consumer confidence in food safety and the implications of recent outbreaks.
“You know, maybe yes, maybe no, and maybe we'll never know.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Your data lives everywhere. On-prem, in the cloud, across apps. Bring it all together with EverPure, the platform that acts like a living system, delivering the latest in data performance, security, and innovation without ever slowing you down. Sophisticated enough to anticipate your ever-changing data needs, yet simple enough to feel like second nature. Tame your data chaos with EverPure and make storage and data management the simplest part of your business. Visit everpuredata.com to learn more. Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade unlocking the power of Thinkorswim the award-winning trading platforms loaded with features that let you dive deeper into the market.
0:36Visualize your trades in a new light on Thinkorswim Desktop with robust charting and analysis tools all while you uncover new opportunities with up-to-the-minute market news and insights Thinkorswim is available on desktop, web, and mobile to meet you where you are. It's built by the trading obsessed to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more at Schwab.com slash trading. Bring in show music, please. Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod. Lame Canada. New tariffs of 50 % on Canadian goods from wine to hockey sticks to cement are Eamon Javers with the breakdown. They feel that Canada has these trade practices that are unfair.
1:19The United States Trade Representative Jameson Greer joins us first to walk through the president's tariff policy now more than a year old. We've taken actions consistent with our national security. And the reasoning. Of all the countries who retaliated against the United States, one was the People's Republic of China and the other was Canada. And the potentially lettuce-borne parasite making diners nervous. This is a dog bites man story. Nobody probably went to Taco Bell over the weekend. What's safe? And will we figure out where's the source of the sickness? Former FDA head Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
1:56Look, I think you can start eating salads again. The false positive, I think, is a red herring. I'm trying to think of a fast food I don't like. I haven't come across one. Plus, the rest of today's news that got us squawking. It is Tuesday, July 21st. Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand Becky by in three, two, one. Cue, please. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We are live from the Nasdaq market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick, along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. And U.S. forces struck Iranian targets for a tenth straight day after President Trump vowed that Tehran will pay for killing three U.S.
2:39soldiers. The president posted on True Social, every time Iran kills an American soldier, they will pay for that killing many times over. This directive has been passed on to Secretary of War Pete Hegseth, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Daniel Cain, and every leader in the military. U.S. Central Command said the military completed the latest round of strikes at about 9 Eastern last night. And, you know, crude prices, we were 69, and then stuff happened. We go, oh, it's only 71. And then things happen. Well, we're still only 73. It's not that bad. And then, wow, why isn't it higher? It's only 75.
3:22And then it was, well, now it's 80, but it's not higher than 80. And now it's almost 85. So it's been a slow move back up. But now we're back at a point where it's going to affect gasoline. prices, midterms, affordability, and all those things. Well, and also the idea of the Red Sea, the strait there being closed for Saudi Arabia. That's another 7 % of global production being stopped. Still not 150, still not 95 again, but like I said, a couple, two, three dollars every day. Right. In the meantime, the Trump administration announcing a new 50 % tariff on some Canadian goods. Eamon Javers has the details.
4:06Eamon, good morning. Yep, good morning to you. President Trump is using this unusual tariff authority to impose significant new duties on Canadian imports. The president signed three proclamations yesterday pursuant to Section 338 of the Tariff Act of 1930 to impose additional 50 % tariffs on certain goods coming from Canada, ranging from wine to hockey sticks to cement. These new tariffs will take effect 30 days after the signing. Section 338 has been on the books for years and decades even, but it hasn't been used to enact tariffs, so we can expect this to be challenged in court as part of this ongoing debate about the scope of the President's tariff authority.
4:50Now, according to senior administration officials, the new Canadian tariffs apply to all designated goods, whether or not those goods are compliant with the existing trade framework known as USMCA. Now, that is a signal that the administration is willing to further undermine the USMCA agreement with Canada. But at the same time, U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer is heading to Mexico this week to negotiate terms for that country's agreement under USMCA, which all suggests that Washington is far more eager for a trade deal with Mexico than with Canada, upending the previous trilateral approach to trade relations between the three countries.
5:31Now, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney issued a statement saying the trade war has raised costs for families, particularly in the United States. And he said Canada stands ready to engage intensively to resolve issues. Meanwhile, Doug Ford, the Premier of Ontario, responded on social media last night with a more confrontational statement saying, I'll never stop fighting to protect Ontario. If these tariffs proceed, Canada should respond tariff for tariff, dollar for dollar. Back to you guys. Amen, it's$20 billion out of$383 billion. And something did... $20 billion in goods. In goods, out of$383 billion in goods.
6:15Okay, so that's a slice of the exports from Canada, but what's it in retaliation for? Because there is something that raised President Trump's ire. Energy, potash, fish, critical minerals are all exempt, but there's something with, if you're buying auto parts from Canada, you have to actually manufacture some of it in Canada. There are some some trade practices that are, I guess, legal under the USMCA, but that we don't like. What caused this? What's a retaliation against? I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you first what it's not retaliation against. You heard the president last week say he's going to impose tariffs on Canada in response to the wildfires and the smoke that engulfed a large part of the east coast of the US last week.
7:12This, officials say, is not the response to that. They say this is the result of an ongoing process. They say for months and months they've been doing this research. They feel that Canada has these trade practices that are unfair, and therefore it's a reaction to that. And so, you know, not the wildfire stuff that a lot of people, I think, jumped the gun yesterday and said, OK, well, last week we saw wildfire complaints from the president threatening tariffs. That's what this is. Officials say, no, it's not. So we know what it's not, but not necessarily what it is. Yeah, that was strange. I don't know.
7:48We want better force management or something up in Canada. But I saw some editorials basically say that it's, in effect, Trump calling for a carbon tax on some of the stuff that happens in Canada. which is, I guess if you, you know, you could look at it maybe that way, but hopefully that's not where we're headed. I don't know about you guys. We had a lot of smoke down here in D.C. Yeah, we had a lot here, too. We did. Although they've gotten upset because they've said in the past when we've had wildfires, they've come to help. Canada has. Right. So, interesting things. Eamon, thank you. We are going to be speaking with U.S.
8:28Trade Representative Jameson Greer. He can tell us exactly what caused all of this and set things up. President Trump's new Air Force One, the Boeing jet gifted by Qatar, will now be taken out of service for about a month for additional upgrades and enhancements. The White House Press Secretary, Caroline Levitt, saying the new Air Force One is perfectly safe for the president's travels, will receive additional upgrades and enhancements in the fall. She said that the president would fly on the old Air Force One during those upgrades. President Trump flew on the new plane earlier this month to that NATO summit in Turkey, but then changed planes while flying back.
9:07That change reportedly came at the request of the Secret Service. The New York Times at the time reported that the new jet lacked some defensive countermeasures, including anti-missile capabilities. So we will see whether it gets maxed. The president said it was getting maxed out, the plane. And then, of course, the question then becomes, can the plane have the same defense capabilities? And can you actually install those, implement those in the next, you know, literally in a month or two? Is that a process? Some people have suggested it could take much longer. How does that actually work? And then there's the other big question, which is that the president has said that he may plan or want to take that plane with him after his presidency.
9:53for his museum. So then you have to think about, yes, it was gifted to the country, the plane, but clearly the taxpayers are going to be on the hook for several hundred million dollars to fix the plane and put in all the countermeasures and all of those things. And then does the next president not get the benefit, not just the president, but does the taxpayers and the government get the benefit of that plane in the future? The London Stock Exchange is moving closer. or 24-hour trading during the work week. It's planning a new offering called LSE24 that will operate from 5 p.m. until 7.50 a.m. in London.
10:32It's expected to be ready for client testing by the end of this year. That follows plans by the New York Stock Exchange to adopt a 22-hour weekday trading schedule and the NASDAQ to offer 23-hour per day trading during the work week. I don't know how you can get trading at 22 hours. I mean, or 20. I mean, you know, this is like eight minute abs. This is another eight minute abs. The only thing that gives me any pause on on any of this is. Remember the financial crisis, the great financial crisis and the times that there were news that had to come out when the markets were closed to give the markets time to digest it, to give people time to figure it out.
11:15There'll be none of that. No respites. I mean, I guess on the weekends, this is only five days. and a lot of that stuff was happening on the weekends. You had to have a deal announced by Sunday before the market's open. 22, okay. I see that and I raise you one. LSA, well, we're thinking 24. Now, the person that gets it, 25. I want to do 25. Well, that's on the days that you like in June. The longest day to year. When the days are longer. When you always think the days are longer. The daytime, the light is longer. You never really explained that. Bring me to the sun. I was part of this next story, I guess.
11:48visits to Taco Bell, locations plunged. This is a dog bites man story. Yeah. Are you surprised by this? Were you here for my explosive diarrhea conversation? No? Friday. Oh, you were? Okay. Just that you need to distinguish between what you normally would get and how bad it would get from the normal. And the other thing about this story is cyclosporiasis, if you transpose the P and the S, it looks like psoriasis. It looks just like it. So you got every time you see it, you got to say. But anyway, you can imagine that. And there was a lot of advertising during the World Cup and other other sporting events for Taco Bell.
12:29Nobody probably went to Taco Bell over the weekend. What surprised me, I think it was a drop of 19 percent in foot traffic. What surprised me is 81 percent still. Yeah, right. Exactly. And nothing against Taco Bell. Love them. It's just I might take a break. if I was worried about making sure that that lettuce was really cleared out. At the supermarket, do you ever buy salad in a bag? Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't done that in a while either. Right. But it was yesterday's story where the FDA walked back whether it was one of the company's lettuce suppliers from Mexico. Data from Placer.ai found, as Becky just said, that foot traffic was 19 % below the chain's average.
13:18for Fridays for the year, but that means 81 % of people are still in there. Give me that 12-pack. Shares of people don't even know you can get a 12-pack. I didn't know. Yeah, you can get a 12-pack of just normal crunchy tacos. Parent company Yum! Brands down more than 7 % in the month of July. On Sunday, the FDA said that that one test of iceberg lettuce from Taylor Farms resulted in a false positive. The agency, though, clarified yesterday that it has not changed its prior conclusion that the outbreak is linked to shredded iceberg lettuce from Mexico, supplied by Taylor Farms. I don't know what all this means.
13:55I don't either. Still advising Americans not to eat recalled iceberg lettuce. We'll talk more about the outbreak with Dr. Scott Gottlieb. I mean, that's my question. Do we know that it's that? Do we not know? They said it was a false positive, but they still think it's not only iceberg lettuce, but from this and this Taylor farm. So I don't know what we know. Hopefully Scott can walk us through a lot of this. Because I got to the point where I'm ready to start eating raspberries and other stuff again because I thought it was this. Coming up, raspberries, blueberries and other things. Cheese will be next.
14:29Coming up, fresh tariffs from President Trump to Canada, an AI race with China, all things trade and the global economy with the U.S. trade representative, Jamison Greer. The president embarked on a new trade policy really designed at reshoring manufacturing production to the United States and getting the trade deficit down after exploding for decades. The White House's key voice on trade. He'll join us from the busy and sometimes noisy White House North Lawn. Yep, there are lawnmowers. You'll hear. Squawk Pod will be right back.
15:04Soccer teaches us lessons we can take with us long after we leave the field. That's why Bank of America and U.S. Soccer are committed to helping bring soccer to every school. Raise your hand to help at bfa.com slash soccer at schools. Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, unlocking the power of Thinkorswim, the award-winning trading platforms loaded with features that let you dive deeper into the market. Visualize your trades in a new light on Thinkorswim Desktop with robust charting and analysis tools, all while you uncover new opportunities with up-to-the-minute market news and insights.
15:36Thinkorswim is available on desktop, web, and mobile to meet you where you are. It's built by the trading obsessed to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more at schwab.com slash trading. Most of us are one good deal away from finally replacing that worn-out rug, fixing up the backyard, or getting the bedroom we actually want. Good news, that deal's almost here. Wayfair's Black Friday in July sale. Get up to 80 % off area rugs and up to 60 % off outdoor and bedroom furniture. Shop Wayfair's huge selection of styles and find the piece to fit your style, budget, and space. Plus, free shipping. Black Friday in July ends July 27th.
16:14Shop today at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.
16:20This is Squawk Pod. Up in Andrew, Q. You're watching Squawk Box right here on CNBC. I'm Andrew Osorkin, along with Joe Kernan, Taco Bell's best customer, and Becky Quick. President Trump signing three proclamations yesterday to impose 50 percent tariffs on some Canadian goods, and those would take effect in 30 days. Joining us now, Jamison Greer, U.S. trade representative. It's good to see you. Good morning. How are you? We'll call you Mr. Ambassador. We'll call you. How about Jameson? Is Jameson all right? You've been on many times. Yeah, good to see you, Joe. Appreciate you having me on. A couple of questions, I guess, come to mind.
17:04What was the tipping point to do this in terms of it's reciprocal? Something got the president's ire about something. Can you describe exactly what it was and why these very targeted tariffs affecting hockey sticks and some things that maybe we wouldn't think of immediately? Well, let me give you just a little bit of history, Joe, on this issue. In April of 2025, as you know, the president embarked on a new trade policy really designed at reshoring manufacturing production to the United States and getting the trade deficit down after exploding for decades. Of all the country, and we impose tariffs on all the world at varying levels, of all the countries who retaliated against the United States, one was the People's Republic of China and the other was Canada.
17:55Some of the things they did is they banned the sale of U.S. liquor and other booze on Canadian shelves. They capped and limited the amount of autos that could be shipped to the United States from companies who were reshoring to the U.S. And they also continue to maintain limited space for market access for U.S. dairy. But importantly, they give other countries better deals on each of these three issues. And so it was a natural consequence after a year of these measures being a place. and longer in the case of dairy, for the president to take action. These are responses to this retaliation. We've been asking for a year for the Canadians to remove these, to modify them, to adjust them.
18:36They haven't done that. And so we have a tailored action that covers a subset of Canadian goods. We aren't banning the goods like the Canadians have banned American alcohol. We're not putting a cap on them. We're limiting them like they've done to cars and dairy. But we have a tariff, which is, again, is a natural consequence of the Canadian retaliation, which has endured for a long time. Did either the things that the actions that Canada has been taking or these tariffs here, are either of them not allowable under the current reading of the USMCA? So for the dairy, for example, the United States, we're very competitive in dairy production and cheese.
19:21And the Canadians made a commitment to us under the USMCA to allow us access under certain types of quotas. However, in implementing that access, they have said you can only sell essentially to co-ops, which are owned by Canadian dairy farmers, who obviously have less of an incentive to get American dairy. But when you look at the EU, they allow EU dairy not only to go to those destinations, but they can also sell them to retail, to wholesale, to food service. That's the kind of access we expected out of USMCA and that we're not getting. The prohibition on wine and spirits, again, that's not permitted under our trade agreements.
19:59People will come and they'll say, well, the United States has taken trade actions on Canada, etc. We've taken actions consistent with our national security to make sure that we can reshore and support our auto supply chains, which are under attack by China and excess capacity worldwide. We're protecting our steel and aluminum. Other countries are taking similar actions to protect their steel products. So the types of things we're doing are overdue. No one has retaliated against us except China and Canada. So we're taking a targeted measure to counter that retaliation. So, you know, Mark Carney said, the prime minister said that the new tariffs are the latest in a series of unilateral U.S.
20:40trade actions that do violate the USMCA. And Canada has been making a lot of detailed proposals to try to resolve some of these issues and they stand ready to engage. Is that do you think that that's not true? Is he distorting or not being totally truthful? Well, the Canadians have always been willing to engage if engagement means talking and meeting. We've done that. I've done that. I have a good relationship with my counterparts there. When he talks about these proposals, I won't go into detail because I want to respect the confidentiality. But what I will say is the proposals are generally for promises to discuss these issues, which we're already doing, not to not to actually change these things.
21:26They talk about collaboration on energy. We've never had tariffs on Canadian energy. We've always been open to that and that kind of exploration. So the types of things that have been in these proposals have always been, let's talk, let's keep trading in energy, things we already do, things that do not fundamentally commit to resolve these issues, maybe just talk about them some more. And for us, we want them fixed. What do you think the president feels we should do with USMCA? what will be the end result? Do you know? Well what I would say first of all as you know the president elected not to renew USMCA and in some ways he has already overwhelmed elements of that agreement with actions he's taken again on auto steel and aluminum which are global in nature but obviously affect our relationship with Canada and Mexico.
22:16One of the things he wants to see with Canada and Mexico is he wants our deficit to go down with these countries. With Canada it has gone down over the past year. With Mexico, it's gone up. Our global trade deficit overall, if you're measuring the 12 months before the tariff program started in April 2025 and the 12 months afterwards, the trade deficit globally has gone down, which is good. But the composition of that deficit has changed. So that's his number one goal. We want the outcomes to make sense. We want to have more auto manufacturing here. And we're seeing it, Joe. One of the reasons why the Canadians imposed their measures is because we've seen lines, production lines come from Canada back to the U.S.
22:52We're seeing Toyota and others move from Mexico to the U.S. That's what we want. So that's the outcome that he wants. I think also if we can have an arrangement with Mexico, with Canada, that we are trying to emphasize Canadian, Mexican, U.S. content in goods traded in North America, that's a good outcome because that helps get supply chains back here in North America. Sometimes it almost does seem like the whole world we could talk about. How about, Let's just talk about the EU and this loan to Airbus. So it's not just that President Trump feels like we've been harmed. In this case, Boeing is asking the U.S.
23:32to intervene. What can you tell us about that? So we have had for a few years an understanding with the European Union that neither side would have unfair subsidies. There was a World Trade Organization dispute about this where the United States won in a big way. The EU themselves had a case against us with Boeing. which was a much smaller case. But the reality is we've had a settlement with the EU for many years. However, this is coming on the heels of that settlement. The EU has announced this loan. We're looking at it very closely. I've made representations to my counterpart in the European Commission.
24:08We're speaking with Boeing about this. We don't mind fair competition. We welcome fair competition. That being said, we can't accept a situation where companies don't have to operate under market-based systems, where Boeing has to operate and compete against an Airbus that gets unfair loans or loans that are unfair with respect to everything that we're trying to do in America. We want to make sure that our companies can compete on a level playing field. And if the European Union is giving unfair loans, then we need to take care of it and address it. The latest and once again, switching gears, the latest is that there are A.I.
24:46advances being made in China. Maybe that they're surprising that either bring us bring that country up to up to par with the United States or even maybe ahead in certain areas. Do we need to do things in terms of of new trade actions there? Where does it stay? We haven't we haven't heard much lately about proposed remedies for things like this. So this is an emergent issue where China is going with artificial intelligence. They're clearly our key competitor in the world on this issue. This is something that a number of U.S. government agencies are looking at and collaborating on, whether it's Mike Kratzios in the Office of Science and Technology Policy in the White House, Commerce Department, Treasury Department, War Department.
25:30We look at it. We are concerned when we see allegations that China is distilling our models to use theirs. We know that this is something that's going on. We see that as a form of forced technology transfer or IP theft in a sense. We also know that they subsidize energy production that's going into their AI. We know that they are getting an unfair advantage in a lot of these ways. They're promoting certain types of open AI standards that make it actually really cheap for others to use them. And I think because we're in this emergent situation, I don't think we're necessarily against one type of standard or another.
26:08But I think we're taking a very close look at how China is propagating its AI development to make sure that our companies compete again on a level playing field. Ambassador, could you just clarify how you think our relationship with Canada stands right now, particularly with the USMCA, with that not being renewed for 16 years? Where would you say the state of things are between the two nations right now? Well, first of all, one thing to remember is we have always had trade issues with Canada. It's always been the most contentious part of our relationship across decades, whether it's with softwood lumber or, you know, 20, 30 years ago with trade in grains and pork across the borders.
Read the full transcript
26:49So it's not new to have trade tensions with Canada. I would say going forward, I'm going to keep talking to my counterparts in Canada. The prime minister put out a letter yesterday responding to the president's action. His letter was, you know, firm but moderate in tone. So they haven't cut off talks. So we're going to keep discussing with them. The reality is we want outcomes that are good for American workers and American businesses. And we're going to pursue those. Sometimes you have to take trade action to incentivize those actions. And sometimes you take an action that leads to a better negotiation in the end.
27:20We will see where it leads. We'll see where it leads. But do you think that if we've always had these troubles, this isn't anything to get worried about? Obviously, a company like GM, which manufactures a lot of its trucks in Canada and brings them back, has a lot riding on this. There are countless other companies that are kind of watching and waiting and thinking the same thing. Should they rest easy on that front? I think, well, let's just go back to what the president regularly says. If you're building in America, that's where you're going to have certainty. You're going to have access to the robust American consumer.
27:54Again, that's a big certainty there. I think if you're planning on building a new factory in Canada and exporting back to the United States, I think you have to understand that the American people, they don't want offshoring. This is a bipartisan view. We don't want a situation where those jobs are going north. Remember, Canada, they did not used to make automobiles. It was in the 60s. Canada essentially limited the import of U.S. vehicles unless our auto companies agreed to produce there in the U.S.-Canada AutoPact. So they did a very Trumpian thing in saying, if you're going to sell here, you need to make here.
28:24So we have a long history, again, of these tensions. I don't think that there's ever going to be a situation where if a company's offshoring to another country, they're always going to have 100 percent guarantee that they'll be able to get it into the United States. OK, but that's different from when we had NAFTA. Starting with NAFTA, we thought it was OK to move not just fully completed vehicles, but parts back and forth across the border for the automakers, the U.S. automakers in particular. they set up a lot of things that was kind of based on that certainty. The new world is you shouldn't feel that comfortable if it's not actually being completely manufactured here in the United States.
29:00We fundamentally disagree on NAFTA. The president disagreed with it. I disagreed with it. We had the UAW who didn't love NAFTA. We had people on the right and left who didn't agree with NAFTA. We had people run for president in the 90s against NAFTA. So so that that's part of the whole problem is that we don't like that certainty of saying you're going to go overseas, build a factory and re-export it here. Now, listen, we're always going to trade. Are there more is going to trade? Are there more tariffs coming in the FT report that provides more detail this week? 301. So with forced labor, the Section 301 investigation of forced labor, again, the U.S.
29:40has laws to prohibit trade and goods with forced labor. Other countries, most don't have a law. Those that do don't really enforce it. We expect to see some action soon. I don't I don't really I can't really specify a timeline right now. I have a responsibility to brief Congress and other stakeholders before I really reveal that kind of thing. But we do expect action soon. Ambassador, though, the FT reports that this would be be much broader than just just a small number of countries that this would be a significant expansion. Is that not right? Well, it covers 60 countries, 6-0, and about 99 percent of our trade.
30:16And that actually illustrates the scale of the problem we're facing. For years, again, the United States has had on the books this law where we prohibit the import of goods made in whole or in part with forced labor. And we enforce it rigorously. Other countries, most don't have it. Those that do, don't enforce it. The EU will say we have a law on forced labor. And while that's true, it doesn't come into effect for another year and a half. So like by the tone, the terms of their own law, it's not in effect. It does cover 60 countries because it's such a prominent problem in the world. Great. Mr.
30:47Ambassador, thanks for taking all those questions. We appreciate it. Hope to see you again soon. Have a great day. Thanks all. Okay. Thanks. Still to come on Squawk Pod, the FDA reversing its false positive on lettuce, potentially contaminated with cyclospora. The former head of that organization, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, on the difficulty of finding this pathogen. So if this was salmonella or E. coli, you can actually sequence the particular strains and get a molecular fingerprint to be able to trace it back to the particular source. You can match the strain you found in patients to the strain you found on the farm.
31:23You can't really do that here with CycloSport.
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32:29You're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC. Here's Becky Quick. Welcome back, everybody. The FDA says that Taylor Farms continues to be the subject of its investigation into the cyclospora outbreak, despite the false positive test result that we are now hearing about. Joining us right now is former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He is also a Pfizer and Illumina board member and a CNBC contributor. And Scott, thanks for being here this morning. Thanks a lot. So I was feeling pretty good and confident about things when I thought this was definitely a case of Taylor Farms and, you know, the lettuce that was going to Taco Bell.
33:08I thought maybe I can start eating salads again. Now we hear that this was a false positive. What does that tell us? Look, I think you can start eating salads again. I think this the false positive, I think, is a red herring. The strength of the decision that the FDA made in isolating this particular form is based on the epidemiological evidence. And it was very strong. I think it was aided by the work that Michigan did to trace back these cases and also the strong supply chain management that Taco Bell had. But the FDA was primarily relying on that epidemiological evidence, tracing the cases back to this particular source.
33:38You can question why they included that test result anyway in the statement that they put out. I don't think it was important to the strength of the evidence that they had. The fact that it was a false positive, I think, doesn't change the balance of the equation. This is really hard to test for. You basically have to have human feces to go back and figure it out. Yeah, it's not just hard to test for. So the only human sample is stool. It's also hard to test for in the field. There's not a lot of good, reliable tests. And I'm not surprised that they had a false positive hit. Also, the tests that doctors use to screen patients typically won't pick it up.
34:09You have to especially order a test to look for cyclosporas. So it's a difficult pathogen. They don't have what we call whole genome sequencing. So if this was salmonella or E. coli, you can actually sequence the particular strains and get a molecular fingerprint to be able to trace it back to the particular source. You can match the strain you found in patients to the strain you found on the farm. You can't really do that here with cyclosporas. So it's harder to use testing alone as a way to isolate this. I think they're really relying on the epi. Yeah, the number, the statistic that got me is that only 4 % of the public eats at Taco Bell, but 60 % of the people who got this explosive diarrhea reported having eaten there.
34:45Right. And the Michigan public health officials found that 90 percent of people who had this infection, this parasite, reported having lettuce in the prior two weeks. So that's very strong epidemiological evidence. This is hard to look for because people don't remember if they had lettuce on a hamburger. It's also confounded by the fact that you find cyclosporine, things like cilantro and basil. And there's background infection going on here. I think the cluster of infections that we saw in Michigan, the Great Lakes region, that seems to be related to this particular farm. FDA is now testing on that farm.
35:14They're testing product coming into the market. So I would have confidence about what's coming into the market right now. The offending supply probably was in the supply chain three, four weeks ago. That doesn't mean that there isn't some ongoing contamination. They need to go onto that farm and figure out how this got into the water supply there, which is likely the conduit. But I think FDA has been working on that based on what I've been told from the agency. Remember, this is spread. The only known reservoir for this is humans. And so this is from human fecal matter that got into probably the water supply, maybe from flooding, maybe from contaminated irrigation, and was used to irrigate those crops.
35:52I guess when you look at it from the consumer perspective, it feels like you're better off staying inside to avoid any of the smoke that's been coming from the wildfires and eat chocolate instead of salad for all these things. You're saying it's all clear at this point? Well, I wouldn't say it's all clear, and you're going to see cyclospora infections in the summer anyway. How often do we usually see this? It's got more headlines than ever. This is probably the biggest cluster that I've ever seen sort of in modern times. So there definitely is a single source for a lot of these infections in the Great Lakes region.
36:23But you see this in the summertime. Look, if consumers want to mitigate risk, there's things you can do. You can buy a whole head of lettuce rather than bagged lettuce, because with bagged lettuce, if you have one contaminated head of lettuce, it might get in dozens of different bags of lettuce. And so you can also buy locally. There's been no documented cases of cyclospora from locally sourced lettuce inside the United States. So people can go to a local grower and buy it. Right now, for the mass-produced lettuce, the only regions that are harvesting typically are Mexico. There's a little bit in Arizona.
36:51California isn't harvesting right now. So any bagged lettuce that you buy is probably coming from Mexico right now. The Taylor Farms supplies Taco Bell. Does it supply lots of other places, too? Yeah, that bagged lettuce got into a lot of retail establishments. This was more than just Taco Bell. The reason why Taco Bell isolates is because they have very good supply chain management. We saw this with McDonald's. We also saw with Cracker Barrel, where when they had an outbreak associated with those restaurants, they were able to isolate very quickly. When I was at FDA, Cracker Barrel had an outbreak of salmonella related to eggs that was served in locations in the south.
37:26I think the southeast, if I remember correctly, they were literally able to isolate back to a particular hen house where those eggs came from. So that's how good the supply chain management is with these big these big food chains. So Taco Bell did a good job here, and I think they acted very proactively. There have been some people who have said the FDA, the CDC has had funding cuts, and that's why this got so bad. Do you think that's the case? Yeah, look, I think FDA acted with speed here in terms of their traceback. So I don't think there was any lapse in what FDA did. CDC appears to act slowly here.
37:56Michigan really did a lot of the initial epidemiological work that traced this to a common food source. and then FDA picked up from there and found the particular farm where this was coming from. Whether or not there have been cuts, there have been people in some of these groups who've been let go from Doge. There was also a group on food safety that was let go at USDA. Whether or not that translated into any of this, I think it's really premature to draw that conclusion very hard. You know, maybe yes, maybe no, and maybe we'll never know. So I think it'd be irresponsible to say the budget cuts flowed into some of this.
38:29CDC has always been challenged in these things. And the group that does these parasitic infections is different than the foodborne illness group. And I always found that the people who worked on foodborne illness were stronger than this parasitic group at CDC, just, you know, just by normal course, irrespective of any any budget cuts. You've pointed out that Taco Bell has a really great supply chain control to have figured this stuff out and gotten it. But we were just saying that Taco Bell's traffic was down 19 percent on Friday from what it typically would be in a summer Friday. Sweet green, their shares were down like 25 percent as people were avoiding some of those places.
39:10Would you eat at a Taco Bell? Would you eat at a sweet green at this point? Yeah, look, I would have no concerns about eating lettuce inside a restaurant chain. FDA is on that farm right now. They're inspecting the farm. They're also inspecting the supplies coming into the U.S. Taylor, I don't think, is shipping a lot right now. I think it's being sourced elsewhere. The big change will be on the ball here. That's the best place for it, you think, at this point. Right now, it's a lot safer to eat lettuce right now than it was four weeks ago, because now they're sourcing from different suppliers.
39:38They're looking at local suppliers where they can get it. So I think they're on top of it. So I think that people have sort of responded appropriately. Certainly FDA has in this instance. And lettuce doesn't have a very long shelf life. Doesn't have a long shelf life. So whatever was, unless there's an ongoing contamination in that farm, which there may be, whatever was contaminated. It could have been a transient contamination from flooding onto the fields. Whatever happened, happened three or four weeks ago. And the new product coming into the market right now is being tested. Again, if you're a consumer who's worried about it, you can do things in your own life, buy a whole head of lettuce, cut it up, things like that.
40:12I wouldn't be too concerned on a prospective basis going forward. But if you want to be vigilant, if you're someone who's immunocompromised at more risk, there's things you can do. Dr. Gottlieb, thank you. Thanks a lot. Four percent. Did you check that math? It says only four percent of the public eats at Taco Bell, but 60 percent of the patients. I got that from FDA. I think they mean eat at the restaurant. How many people take it out and then eat somewhere? Well, 40 percent. Speak for yourself. He is. I know. I know. Four percent's a lot. I told you. I told you that the Kernan family is responsible for the earnings, Mr.
40:48Whatever Happened. On Taco Bell. Or Domino's. Yeah. McDonald's. I'm trying to think of a fast food I don't like and I don't I haven't come across one Thank you Doctor, thank you And that is the podcast for today Thank you for listening to Squawk Pod today and any day that you do Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin Please tune in weekday mornings on CNBC starting at 6 Eastern or get the best of our TV show right into your ears when you follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow. We are clear. Thanks, guys. Thank you so much.
41:51tools, all while you uncover new opportunities with up-to-the-minute market news and insights. Thinkorswim is available on desktop, web, and mobile to meet you where you are. It's built by the trading obsessed to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more at schwab.com slash trading.
From the publisher
U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer signaled another round of President Trump’s tariffs is on the way, on the heels of a new 50% levy on Canadian goods as varied as wine and hockey sticks. Greer says he expects action soon. The cyclospora pathogen is sparking fears – and false positives - as regulators struggle to determine the source of the recent explosive diarrhea outbreak. Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb describes why this parasite is harder to track down than others. Plus, the U.S. has carried out its 10th consecutive evening of attacks on Iran, as the Middle East conflict approaches the five-month mark.
Eamon Javers - 04:01
Jamieson Greer - 16:50
Dr. Scott Gottlieb - 33:24
In this episode:
Jamieson Greer, @jamiesongreer
Scott Gottlieb, @scottgottliebMD
Eamon Javers, @eamonjavers
Joe Kernen, @JoeSquawk
Becky Quick, @BeckyQuick
Andrew Ross Sorkin, @andrewrsorkin
Katie Kramer, @Kramer_Katie
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