The Saudi Visit, the Epstein Vote & Oz Pearlman the Mentalist 11/18/25

0:00Bring in show music, please. Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, a return to Washington by Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. We talk about it all the time, Khashoggi. Yes, this is where we are now, full circle. Retired four-star General David Petraeus on the diplomatic stakes. It's a very significant visit. There are a lot of deliverables, and I think it will be, again, something that they will definitely celebrate this evening properly. The complicated web of connections to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein puts political pressure on the president. There's no allegations of any wrongdoing yet.

0:40Maybe there's something in these files that haven't come out. And causes a former Treasury Secretary to step back from public life. There's not an allegation, there's emails that are more than unattractive. Our Emily Wilkins on Congressional Republicans' new pitch to lower health care costs. If you are someone who has a high medical cost, you know, a health savings account, it's great for the initial chunk, but eventually there is a giant bill that is coming. Plus, Wall Street's favorite mentalist Oz Perlman reads our minds. When I go one, two, and three, say the letter you picked. One, two, three.

1:15G. No. That was weird. And the results are stunning. I can't. I can't do it anymore. more. It's Tuesday, November 18th, 2025. Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand Andrews high in three, two, one, Q Andrews. Good morning. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We're live at the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Andrew Ross Sorkin along with Joe Kernan. Becky is off today. The U.S. Department of Labor's website appears to have been updated overnight, revealing jobless claims data that has been delayed by the government shutdown. It says initial jobless claims totaled 232 ,000 in the week ended October 18th.

1:55Continuing claims came in at 1.96 million, up slightly from 1.95 million in the prior week, Joe. It's been a while. We talk about it all the time, Khashoggi. This is where we are now, full circle. President Trump's going to meet with Saudi Arabia's crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman to date in Washington, D.C. Leaders are expected to talk about strengthening defense, trade and technology ties, as well as A.I. and nuclear energy. Ahead of the meeting, the president said he planned to approve the sale of Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia, and that could potentially alter the military balance in the Middle East.

2:38The U.S.-Saudi Investment Forum is scheduled for tomorrow. Punchbowl's Jake Sherman says a dinner that President Trump is holding for the crown prince is expected to include Tiger Woods and Elon Musk, among other guests. A couple of, I don't know what the relationship is there. One's a gazillionaire and a genius. The other one is the greatest, one of the greatest golfers of all time. But who I believe is dating one of President Trump's sons, ex-wives. So it's all very strange. And they're all friends and they have dinner. And I don't know. This is I don't know if I don't know if I'm current on that.

3:21But that was happening. This has been Solomon's first visit to the U.S. since 2018 when Saudi agents killed Jamal Khashoggi, the journalist in a Saudi consulate in Turkey. and, you know, you see stuff, people get up in arms on Twitter, obviously. There's still some hangover from all the way back to September 11th. So many of the hijackers were, I mean, we have a long, complex history with Saudi Arabia. We've long talked about sort of, so since 2018, what is the penalty? Do you think about it in the context of a penalty box? Kind of, don't you? Well, and is there a duration to that penalty box?

4:06Are you, we're going to talk about Larry Summers in just a moment. Are you canceled forever? Are you, what is the appropriate thing? And are there different measures for different people, for different offenses? Because there are economic concerns. We deal, we've actually, in the past when we've talked about this, I've said things are gray. You are more black and white about a lot of things. And there are countries that do things that there's no way we understand or would ever tolerate things like that. And a lot, you know, not just in the Middle East, China, Russia. By the way, I don't think.

4:46But if you're the king of a country, there was a time when kings could do whatever the hell they want. I think when they killed this guy, they didn't even think that they were, you know. Look at what Putin does in terms of his enemies. I mean, there are things that happen. We can't be naive. Right. And we don't do business with them. Not for a while. Apparently we do, because here they are. I'm saying we don't do business with Russia. No, but, well, we would. We would if economic things, and if Ukraine... This is the great complication. It is, but you're right about the penalty box. You know, if you misgender someone, I think you can be in a penalty box forever.

5:24There's no coming back from that. But these other things, you know, murdering someone is much less. Well, let me ask you about this then. So former Treasury Secretary and Harvard President Larry Summers saying he's going to, quote, step back from public commitments as follows the release of emails that showed that he kept up a friendly relationship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein after Epstein pleaded guilty to soliciting prostitution from an underage girl in 2008. It also follows President Trump's ordering the Justice Department to investigate Summers and other prominent Democrats' ties to Epstein.

5:58In a statement obtained by CNBC, Summers said, I am deeply ashamed of my actions and recognize the pain they have caused. I take full responsibility for my misguided decision to continue communicating with Mr. Epstein. Summers says he will continue to teach. He's also, we should mention, a board member at OpenAI. We don't know whether that designation is going to change or not. and here we are we talk about you know moral lapses uh moral maybe worse than that depending on how you think about it we haven't really talked about president trump in regard to the files or by the way it's interesting to me though that here we have larry summers voluntarily stepping back from public life effectively on his own well his stuff was way after 2005 when trump threw him out of Mar-a-Lago and alerted the FBI, apparently, to things that were happening.

6:52I understand that. I mean, there were a lot of, and people, you know. I'm not here to defend Larry Summers. No, but some of the names that we're talking about, this was like after 2008, even. There were parties with Stefanov. I mean, the names that were at parties well after people should have known what was going on. That's why, you know, it's easy to cherry pick and select things. I don't know, you know, with Trump, you want to go there. But I don't know. I think he's saying that. I don't know. You know what? Neither one of us. No, but here's the look. The question is, in this environment, I would say prior to President Trump, really, I mean, thinking about the Carroll lawsuit and everything else.

7:37Right. There was a lawsuit against against this current president that involved allegations of rape. That's what that case was. And he is now the president of the United States. He wasn't found guilty of rape, obviously. I said those were the allegations. Right. And you heard what the court effectively said about all of that, ultimately. Well, that was the judge. The judge. A judge. Yes. You know what my feelings are. I know you have different feelings than what the judge's feelings are. What I'm saying is the it feels like the the window around what people think about morality, either care about morality, don't care about morality.

8:20Is it selective to certain people? We're willing to. The left is making it selective to certain people, making it almost solely to Trump. When you're probably hearing more from people, Virginia. I don't think it's. But there's no allegations of any wrongdoing yet. Maybe there's something in these files that haven't come out, but there's no allegations. And you're making that leap to it long before you're really able to. And my only point is, and we have no idea what Larry Summers' full engagement is with Jeffrey Epstein, but there's not an allegation. There's emails that are more than unattractive, it seems.

8:56I don't know enough about it. I don't either. What year are we talking about? We're talking about much, way after 2000. All I'm suggesting is that sort of. OK, let's say you're back. Let's say you're back. And you got pictures of Trump back in the 90s with Epstein. That problematic for you? I think it's not great. Well, it's not great for anyone. It's not great for anyone. But then, as I say, you got your other friends like Clinton. How many jet rides well after the 90s down to the island? Well, we'll see. And that's that's what we don't know. And then the question is, don't look at it. The left looks at it selectively.

9:36and you don't think that the right looks at... Well, we'll see what's in there, now that it, if it does come out. We are in no position to know anything about any of that. But I will say this, I remember, no, but I mean, there was the grab-and-bother, you-know-what line, there was obviously this allegation of rape case. Now you're getting this too. No, no, you can't... So this is going to be, so going back to it, this is what you're going to be to go after Trump at this point? No, I'm just... This is your cudgel? It's not a cudgel. What I'm suggesting to you is that there is a, for whatever reason, and I'm trying to understand it, you talk about selective sort of context around different individuals.

10:15And what I'm saying is there is clearly a shift around selective thinking around questions about morality, about certain people for certain reasons. I mean, no one's saying any of our leaders are morally perfect. And once again, you can go back, you know, take your pick of who you're talking about there. But I mean, how long did we did we pander in the Russia hoax? I mean, anything to try and get this guy from the left, it's almost. So now this is the latest little. The Russia hoax thing, by the way, Marco Rubio ran an investigation himself, who's now the Treasury. That was now the state. Marco Rubio into into the right.

11:03If you go back and read the quote-unquote Russia hoax that you're talking about, and Marco Rubio was the person who led that effort. Okay, fine. I don't know what that has to do with it. I'm just saying that when you suggested somehow a political argument, it was at the time, it was being led by the guy who's now the Secretary of State. The hate for... It doesn't matter. Why does it matter who he was? There was nothing there, Andrew. And the left, you would have thought there was. Pulitzer Prizes were handed out for that. there was nothing he was not a russian agent from putt that was all conjured up by the prior administration and by hillary clinton and i'm saying that a lot of those stories were written based on information i mean now we're relitigating the past uh based on you've gone over now you've gone on that involved you've gone on the pink hats you've got you've you have thrown an eugene carroll you've here we're having conversation about you know it's all been litigated and 77 million people voted for him.

11:59Not you, but 77 million people did. No, and that's the, but that's the point. That we got a horrible country that has no morality. No, that the question is, so here we are now debating the morality effectively of Khashoggi this morning, right? Who's visiting at the White House. Khashoggi's dead. You mean, I'm sorry, MBS. And we're having a debate or a conversation about whether somebody like Larry Summers should be stepping back from public life or not? That is the question. And I'm saying, given this sort of context, what do you think about that now? You think Trump should step back from public life because Larry Summers is setting some type of example?

12:38I'm just suggesting to you that there is a wide aperture here that people are using in terms of how they want to think about different people for different reasons. Each of those individuals know exactly what went on. And I don't. I don't either. So I wouldn't deign to know if Summers feels like he's in a position where he would step back. He ought to step back. He's deeply ashamed. So I don't know what's in there. I don't know what happened either. I don't know if he's at the island. I don't know. I don't know anything.

13:16Republican senators are floating a health care plan that has the backing of President Trump. Emily Wilkins joins us now with more. Good morning. Good morning, Joe. Yeah, senators, you know, right now they're racing to find a solution to keep health care costs low, giving that coming expiration of those premium tax credits at the end of the year. Republicans are warning that just a simple extension of those credits is not going to be able to pass both chambers. So now we've got Senator Bill Cassidy. He chairs the Senate Committee overseeing health care, and he's pitching a new plan basically to let these premium tax credits go ahead and expire at the end of the year and then use the savings to provide prepaid health care savings account to those who sign up for the lowest tier of plans on the Affordable Care Act marketplace.

14:00Now, as you mentioned, Trump himself endorsed spending the funds directly, not rather on the tax credits, but giving that funding to Americans. But the idea has raised concerns among some health policy experts. The Kaiser Family Foundation's health care expert Larry Levitt tweeted that without the enhanced ACA premium tax credits, people would have a harder time buying plans with affordable deductibles. But he then went on to add that he does not believe that this plan from, and he tagged Senator Bill Cassidy, would cause a premium death spiral in the same way as other health account proposals that have been floated.

14:36Now, you remember Senate Majority Leader John Thune, he promised Democrats a vote on the bill of their choosing in mid-December, meaning that lawmakers are under the gun to find something that can pass both chambers. Otherwise, you're going to see those premium credits expire and have no alternative there. guys the health savings accounts hearing that from a lot of different sectors at this point Emily we had we had the other day a long discussion about that with on the set here a lot of people have talked about that being something that that might that might make sense it's been been years I don't know why we haven't tried it up to this point Bertinelli was on Mark is his name Bertolini Bertolini was on talking about that as as an answer of Oscar Health.

15:25I don't know if you saw any of that interview that day, Emily. Well, I know at least from the discussions that I've heard up on Capitol Hill. Yes, there's definitely an openness to the idea of these health savings accounts. I think at the same point, some of the other concerns that I've also heard is that if you are someone who has a high medical cost, If you're dealing with a really devastating illness and you are racking up those hospital bills, you know, a health savings account, it's great for the initial chunk. But eventually there is a giant bill that is coming. And I think for certain folks who want to see a higher premium than the bronze plan, you want to get something that maybe has more coverage.

16:03You wouldn't necessarily get the HSA. And I should note that Cassidy has asterisked this with this is something he's still discussing with folks. You know, they have only a couple of weeks to come up with a proposal. So he's still kind of trying to workshop it as he's putting it out. But it is just notable, of course, given that they are going to have to figure this out before a vote in just a few weeks. Yeah. All right, Emily. Appreciate that. Thank you. Just looking at this, Andrew. Yeah. Summers' emails with Epstein were 2018 and 2019. Yep. Asking for advice on pursuing a romantic relationship.

16:35And that was 10 years after Epstein had pleaded guilty to all those charges in 2008. So I don't know if it's an apples to apples or not when the relationship ended in 2005. You're talking about Trump. Talking about Trump, you know, comparing morality. I think Larry has a lot to answer for. I'm not saying he doesn't have a lot to answer for. And by the way, it's not coming from the Democrats. It's the Republicans who have gone. Steve Bannon is not. Don't use Steve Bannon or Marjorie Taylor. Tucker Carlson. I can't believe that these people are on Democrats' lips now. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Steve Bannon.

17:09Those are the people. And Tucker Carlson. The people who have supported this president. They've been the most vocal supporters of the president. Okay. Right? That's where it's coming from. It's not... I just would have never believed that MTG would be mentioned so frequently by the left. It's just... It's like come full circle. I'm just suggesting that's where it's coming from. That's, it's the party that supported this president who's making, who's calling for all of this. Okay. That's where it started. Cheese will be next. Coming up on Squawk Pod, a high stakes meeting at the White House today with President Trump and Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman, retired general and former CIA director David Petraeus on the changing politics in the Middle East.

17:56Unfortunately, Hamas is still the guys with the most guns in Gaza. They're still essentially the government.

18:07This is Squawk Pod. Up and Andrew, cue. You're watching Squawk Box on CNBC. I'm Andrew Osorkin along with Joe Kernan. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is scheduled to visit the White House today. His first since the 2018 killing of journalist and Saudi critic Jamal Khashoggi for a look at what's at stake. I want to bring in retired four-star Army General David Petraeus, chairman of the KKR Global Institute and the KKR Middle East Global Institute. He was, of course, the CIA director during the Obama administration. Good morning to you. Good to see you. When this whole meeting is over, General, what do you think we're going to ultimately hear?

18:43What kind of deals do you think can ultimately be struck? Well, first of all, President Trump is really approaching this as a state visit of a head of state, even though the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is the prime minister, head of government. But that's a significant distinction. There will be an elaborate military arrival ceremony, Oval Office meeting, and then a black-tie dinner for 125 or so people this evening. And this evening, I think they'll be celebrating an announcement of a U.S. sale of up to 48 F-35 stealth fighter bombers, which proved to be so effective, of course, in the hands of the Israelis and U.S.

19:20forces. in the 12-day war against Iran. There will likely be the signing of a mutual defense pact, something like what President Trump did for Qatar after the Israeli strike on the Hamas leaders there. Discussion of the Saudis joining the Abraham Accords, although I think that's still premature because the Crown Prince will explain that there will have to be an ironclad path to Palestinian two-state solution. There will also be undoubtedly reaffirmation, if you will, or details on the$600 billion that the crown prince announced would be spent in the U.S. by the Saudis in a variety of different endeavors, and likely a civil nuclear agreement of some type to help the Saudis.

20:07So it's a very significant visit. There are a lot of deliverables. And I think it will be, again, something that they will definitely celebrate this evening properly. What is your take on the F-35 sales? You know, there's some concern, more than some concern, a report inside the Pentagon suggesting it could be a problem that these planes could ultimately either wind up in the hands of the Chinese or given the partnership between the Chinese and Saudi that it presents a problem and something that we should be concerned about? Well, I think there's reason to be concerned about that. And I think there are also mitigating steps that can be taken to assure that that doesn't happen.

20:43This will, though, be the first sale of F-35s outside of Israel when it comes to the Middle East. You can then expect probably the Emiratis and others may seek similar sales in the future. And the key is, again, just making sure that there are safeguards, that there's no way that they can reverse engineer if gets in their hands or something like that, which I don't expect to happen. I suspect we'll have a lot of advisors around this. There will probably be discussion as well of other modernization of the Saudi military, including maintenance and training agreements also. I doubt it's going to come up in conversation, but here we are talking about MBS coming to the U.S.

21:23for a visit like this, the first since, and we keep saying since 2018, when he's alleged to have ordered the killing of Khashoggi. How should we think about that in this context? Well, it's obviously something that has no half-life, if you will. It's always going to be there. But at the end of the day, the previous president and now this president decided that we need to move on. You face the reality, the world the way it is, not necessarily the way you'd like it to be. That is a half life, General. And it does have a half life. Well, it obviously gets a bit more dim and dim in the rearview mirror as time goes.

22:05Right. I think you're arguing for it. I see what you're saying, but you're kind of making the case for both. In the black and white world of what's right and what's wrong, it has no half life. In the gray world of what we deal with, it obviously has a half-life. Sure. Yep. Right. I think I understand. General, when you think about the relationship between Saudi and the U.S., and actually now let's play this out into what you think is going on in Israel right now. Do you think that there's going to be a broader deal that's going to come out of this? There will probably be discussions about the way forward in Gaza.

22:44And, of course, it's worth noting that the U.N. Security Council yesterday approved President Trump's plan for the way forward in Gaza. The challenge is the reality that there still has not been a mechanism described, designed, and so forth, to disarm Hamas. That's the second phase of this agreement. President Trump deserves credit for the first phase, which got the exchange of the hostages from Hamas, live hostages all to Israel. Gradually, the bodies of those who died in captivity are also making their way. And it's an exchange for thousands of Palestinian detainees in return. The question is, how do you move forward now?

23:27Unfortunately, Hamas is still the guys with the most guns in Gaza. They're still essentially the government. And there really is not a separation of the people from the extremists in this case, which is what you would have wanted to see in this campaign. Look, Israel was brilliant against Hezbollah, brilliant against Iran, set the conditions that enabled Ahmed al-Shar to topple the murderous Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria. But the situation in Gaza is still at a bit of an impasse, because there has been a clear and leave approach rather than a clear hold build. And whether there can be a force found somewhere in the world that's willing to go in there and fight Hamas and its hundreds of miles of underground infrastructure and take them on and clear them out, disarm them forcefully if they will not disarm voluntarily.

24:19That is a big question right now. I'm sure they'll talk about reconstruction. But again, it's very hard to do reconstruction if you haven't actually separated again the people from the extremists in this case. In general, while we have you here, Putin, we've got sanctions. We've toughened up sanctions. Are there any is there anything economically that will actually force him to make concessions or stand down? Or do you just think he's just dead set on, I don't know, reconstituting Mother Russia or the Soviet Union or something? Is anything ever going to work? Does he care if the economy goes to zero?

25:02Does he care what happens to Russia in that case? I think there is a way forward. I think that if the EU in its mid-December meeting can finally agree on how to essentially launder, how to take these frozen Russian reserves that are anywhere from $150 billion to$250 billion, that is equivalent, depending on who you talk to and which country they're in, if you can launder that through Euroclear bonds that you give to Ukraine, it would be an extraordinary shot in the arm for Ukraine. That's first to help Ukraine, and we should take other actions to help them defend better in the air against missiles and drones and so forth also.

25:41But then if you put further sanctions on the Russian economy, and now you're starting to see this. The 19th EU round was approved a few weeks ago. The US has been sanctioning Rosneft and Luke Oil, two of the big oil companies, and then a number of other companies in recent days. And then you go after those who enable the Russian economy. You go after those who are buying the gas and oil, do it in a thoughtful manner so you don't spike the oil market. That's doable. We did it back during the sanctions on Iran that led to the ultimate nuclear deal. And you go after, frankly, China, which is providing the vast quantity of chips and other components for the Russian military industrial complex, noting that they are going to run out of the National Welfare Fund, the Russians are, next year, according to the Ukraine intelligence.

26:31So I think there is an opportunity to enable Ukraine to do better on the ground, against the Russians in the air, and then above all, to crush the Russian war economy and those who enable it, those who buy and those who sell to Russia. And I think that could lead to a situation where Putin says, you know, I actually can't continue this war. He's now taken somewhere around 1.15 million killed and wounded. And I think there could be a moment if you do all this together. And I think the opportunity is there at this point in time. General, I want to thank you for joining us this morning, helping us through this.