Walmart CEO Doug McMillon & Scott Jennings 12/9/25

23:14Those parties, whether it's OpenAI or it's other hyperscalers, still have to get the order fulfilled. And it is more efficient to move a basket than it is in each. And there are complexities in how you do that. And having stores and clubs and distribution centers and now more fulfillment centers closer to people enable us to be able to deliver big baskets fast. Our delivery speed is going way up. So our strategy is build everything organically ourselves and partner with others to be at top of funnel. And we'll work out the economics. We'll work out the data exchange in a way where that experience can be better.

23:47In the old world, in the Google search world, we didn't quite get it done where it was magical. You couldn't get to one click through Google to buy a Walmart. But with the new situation, I think people are beginning to understand that's necessary. And we're one of the few parties that have a huge catalog and the ability to deliver it fast. That has been your hallmark, I would say, throughout your entire reign of CEO. I remember years ago talking to you, and you kind of pulled your phone out, and you said, I keep a list of the top 10 retailers decade by decade to remind me that if we don't change, if we don't evolve, we die.

24:17Do you still have that? You still follow it? Yeah, yeah. I was looking at it yesterday. Our team here in town, we have a fashion office here. We were talking about the fact that if you don't change, you die. And that's the reality of business in general, but it's certainly the case in retail. And I find that really motivating. I mean, one of the things I have loved about this experience that I've had is you've got a big team sport and a scoreboard and competitors. And that's made it a lot of fun. I can remember a conversation that we had, and it was after a gun incident with Dick's Sporting Goods.

24:44And I remember you said, we're going to satisfy our customers and what they need. And I don't think you fell for some of the cultural issues that some of your competitors fell for, the wokeness, for lack of a better term. I can think of Bud Light, I can think of Tuckett, whatever those things were at Target. That hurt those companies, I think. I think you've always managed from a Midwest or an Arkansas maybe point of view. Am I wrong there that you didn't embrace some of that stuff? We serve everybody, like literally everybody, every point of view politically and otherwise, and we want to serve everybody.

25:19So our approach has been to be really practical. And whether it's the firearm decision, which we've talked about a lot, or some of the other decisions, pausing to think about how everyone feels about it, and then explaining to everyone a really common sense, practical solution to whatever the issue is, has been what we've tried to do. I mean, you stepped up with the wage issue. And at the time, I didn't know if it was right, if it was pandering to the wrong. But there were times when I argued, look, Walmart shareholders for 30 years have been totally enriched. It's been great for the employees as well.

25:56But if you take a couple of basis points off margins to help with wage increases, couldn't that come back and actually end up coming back in spades? And that's exactly what you do. We always say our people make the difference. And not only did we increase wages and have continued to, but we've got a cash bonus and a 401k and an associate stock purchase plan. And over 400 ,000 of our associates participate in that stock purchase plan where the company pluses them up. So our associates have benefited from the equity appreciation. And managers can make over$400 ,000. Managers do really well, as they should.

26:29So do truck drivers. One of the truck drivers is going to ring the bell this morning. So here's a philosophical question for you. as we all have these debates, at least, I don't know if they're real or not, but questions about capitalism and socialism and this and that. Do you think that the Walmart employee looks and says this is working? I do, because there's opportunity. You know, I just as an American, I get frustrated with the debate that happens sometimes about which system is best. I still see people who come from all over the world in some cases, and they get a job at Walmart and they end up being a store manager.

27:03It changes their life. I mean, literally changes their life from a wealth point of view. And if you work hard to apply yourself, you can make it here and change the pattern. What Sam built in his lifetime. I mean, when did he die? 1992. So it's been a while, but I used to just marvel at this guy. I marveled at what he built, what one man could build in a lifetime. That's only the fifth CEO. Yeah, for the American green, that's why I think it's... We've got to keep that going. I think part of the trick is figuring out what you want to keep the same, what you want to strengthen, our purpose, which Sam gave us, our values and culture and then be willing to change anything else.

27:37Doug, we know you have to go. You're ringing the bell and you've got some things you have to do upstairs. But very quickly, can you just give us kind of a heads up of where the consumer is right now? What are you seeing? You all have talked about how you've seen people who make$100 ,000 or more coming into the stores. What do you see at the lower end? Yeah, as we said, when we released our third quarter results, it's been really consistent for us. Now, we're benefiting from some share gains. People with higher income levels are shopping with us more often and have been for a while. There's pressure at the bottom end.

28:04Inflation being low single digit right now helps a little bit, but it's on years of price inflation in some categories. Gas prices being low is helpful right now. So people are behaving pretty consistently, but there's pressure for those at lower income levels. Yeah, I think in the store, you've seen 1.3 % inflation versus closer to 3 % for the rest of the nation. But that grocery store inflation, 25 % over the last five years. Yeah, that's a sticky That's a tricky problem. Right now we've got over 7 ,000 rollbacks in Walmart U.S. and our team has done a fantastic job of figuring out what to change, whether it's in food or it's in general merchandise to try and keep prices down.

28:39In the apparel office yesterday, they were giving us examples of how we've been able to improve quality, change country of origin, move a factory and end up with a better outcome. Lots of flexibility on their part and they manage our inventory so well. When this year started and we were facing this tariff situation, the biggest concern I had is that we would get over inventoryed. But they've navigated that, our merchants have so well. I mean, with your margins, what are they now? It's tight, like 4 %-ish. $905 billion. I hadn't looked at it in a while. You're going to be a trillion-dollar retailer.

29:12It's just staggering that you can do that. The business model has changed. With income from membership and advertising and some of the other things we're building, the composition of the income statement looks different. Doug, you have been a phenomenal leader, not just for Walmart, but I think what you have done at the Business Roundtable and kind of speaking out for American values. And we want to thank you for that. I can't wait to see your next chapter. What are you going to do next? I don't know. I'm going to show you what I'm supposed to do. We think it's going to be big. You don't mean CNBC contributor.

29:45Well, I mean, you know, I know you're working on that kind of visibility. I don't have that much to say. I'll leave it to you. Seriously, I've learned a lot from you guys over the years. In the pandemic in particular, you were very helpful to keep us all educated, and I'm grateful for the role you guys play every day. But you're thinking about what to do next. You're not going to do anything for a little while. It'll be some combination of business and philanthropic stuff, but I'm going to take a few months. I've never had a blank calendar, and I've now seen what one looks like in a few months, and it's kind of exciting.

30:16And then we'll see. Well, we hope you enjoy your time off, you and Shelly both, and we can't wait to see what you do next. We hope you come back again. Thanks. Thank you, Doug. We appreciate it. Next on Squawk Pod, what the Supreme Court oral arguments about the president's attempt to fire a Democratic member of the Federal Trade Commission tell us about the whole Trump agenda and commentator and author Scott Jennings on the president's message. I asked him once, are you conservative or are you common sense? And he said, most of the time, conservative is common sense.

30:52You're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC. Here's Joe Kernan. Scott Jennings joins us. He's the author of A Revolution of Common Sense. How Donald Trump, it's not on me. No one's on me to do that. Stormed Washington and fought for Western civilization. Welcome. Took a book to get you on here. Yeah, I know. Nice to see you, sir. Good morning. We have an excuse to have you on. Yeah, it's a great book. It's a great book. Just in time for Christmas. I don't know how else we would have necessarily had you on, but when did you join CNN as a contributor? Oh, gosh. Yeah, I've been there for eight and a half years, but the last couple of years has really been a...

31:30That's what I'm talking about. A renaissance. It happens gradually, and then it happens all at once. You're like a... People would say it's like when a business succeeds. It's like an instant success, they say, and then people say, I've been doing this for 20 years, and it finally happened. But you're everywhere. Is it you or is it your ideas started to resonate in the current climate? I'll throw one more factor in. It was the fact that we had a campaign that we were able to cover. You know, the 2020 campaign, the coverage was unusual. We didn't have the same kind of commentary. But the 24 campaign, we were all in.

32:04Plus the advent of this debating show that we had at 10 o 'clock at night, the Abby Phillips show. And they gave a conservative a chance to showcase what it looks like when ideas are actually challenged. I think Americans are hungry for debate, and they love it. I saw something the other day, though, that does it take too long to explain to Abby Phillips the California loophole that allows Medicaid to cover illegal aliens? She kept saying to you, almost like a child, that no, you're wrong. No, you're wrong. No, you're wrong. Nani, nani, nani. And all you had to do was say, look, this is the way it works because money's fungible and Medicaid money flows to illegals in California and other states.

32:43And that's a fact. You never did say that to her. Well, first of all, it's not just a fact in California. Blue states and the Democratic Party position has long been that it's a good thing to give Medicaid to illegal immigrants. So it's not really in question and it's not really a controversial position. You gave up. I was watching. You finally just said, okay, whatever. The left in the current environment, I think it's out of their mind. They're out of their mind sometimes. But then I look at some of the things you have to defend on the right. Do you ever feel like you're in a position where there are times where it's uncomfortable to be an ardent Trump supporter?

33:23You never have any problem? Look, I don't feel like I have to die on every hill. I mean, if something's going on that I think should be nudged in one way or the other. You can only die once, right? Yeah. Well, a good pundit knows that. And you don't have to die on every hill. And you can say, I would have done it this way, or my advice would be to do it that way. But I do think for what I'm doing at CNN, half the country, 60 % of the country, sometimes 90 % of the country needs a good, solid defense of what's happening and how they're absorbing the news. I'm also one of the only pundits that comes from middle America.

33:52I live in Kentucky, not D.C. or New York. There's times I dread coming in for having Elizabeth Warren on, or I've got to deal with you or something. How do you go into CNN? You might as well be going to The View and sitting next to them every day. How do you do it? Do you like it? Do you like to argue? I love it. I was put on this earth to debate. I'm sometimes a pilgrim in an unhospitable land, and that's okay because I believe that... Stranger in a strange land? Well, I believe... Look, we're in our silos. We're in our bubbles. If we talk to each other and we have a few more debates, our politics will be better for us.

34:26Can I ask you just, you're talking about stranger in a strange land. we talk about economics and business all the time and capitalism. And one of the unique things that's happening now, and we were talking about NVIDIA, for example, this morning and things like this. It feels like there's an element of might describe a state sponsored capitalism and everything is going through the prism of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to some degree. And how you think about that, we've been talking about the Paramount transaction and the fact that, you know, Jared Kushner's bidding on one side of that and the president is openly saying, I'm going to be involved in the decision.

35:00I mean, there are these things that are so sort of. It's a lot different than the Bush White House. At odds. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And sort of how you see that. Well, look, I think Trump would tell you he's not conservative orthodox on some economic issues. Tariffs is one. Some of the involvement that he's had with companies is the other. But he would also probably tell you that I'm trying to do the common sense thing. That was the theme of the book. I asked him once, are you conservative or are you common sense? And he said most of the time conservative is common sense. But in some cases he thinks he's got economic theories here that are digging us out of long-term structural problems that crush working class Americans.

35:38And in many cases, and this is throughout the book, he just believes he was put here to be responsive to a coalition of working class Americans that had really no politician fighting for them in Washington, D.C. So he's willing to exercise a little muscular executive authority if it means helping the coalition to put him in the White House. It could be a slippery slope that that allows the next administration in power to do even worse things. He would say they're going to he would say they're going to do it anyway. And you're right. And that's one way to argue. That's what he says about the filibuster.

36:08The Republicans might as well do it now and get some things done because they're coming anyway. And they may be coming in a year with you think they're coming in a year in the House. Oh, well, I think it's 50-50 right now. I think Republicans will hold the Senate. That's my projection. But I'm still, look, we don't know the maps yet. You still got maps changing, the Supreme Court on the Voting Rights Act. And I still think Democrats aren't all that popular. I mean, you know, they're still doing things that aren't terribly popular with the American people. And folks won't forget, they did dig a deep hole for Donald Trump to climb out of.

36:39Hey, Scott, what you've done, which is try and take dialogue, take debate, take ideas and talk about those things. I mean, I don't know that either party's leadership is really fomenting that. In Washington, it seems like neither side will talk to the other. 70 percent of Americans are probably in the middle, somewhere in the middle on this. And they want to hear this debate. They want to hear these ideas. They want to see people working across and looking for ideas. How do we get that back to a place in Washington? because it doesn't seem like anybody's talking across the aisle. Yeah, I agree with you.

37:12And I go around the country and I do a lot of talks. I hear two things. I love you and I love the debates. I don't care for you, but I love the debates. And the commonality is there's a hunger for debating content. And there's a demand for this in our politics. And people like it. And it's OK. We don't always have to agree. You're not bipartisan. You wouldn't be able to arrive at it. It's not about bipartisan, but sometimes the partisan debates get ridiculous. You can't arrive at any consensus with the current election. Common sense. Can you? Any consensus? Any consensus with the left? That's what I said.

37:41With the leadership, I don't know how you're going to do anything with Hakeem Jeffries, but there are people in the Democratic Party who I think would come about. Don Fetterman. I would say Scott Gottlieb. John Fetterman. I have a slightly different view, which is that... I mean, Josh got on you. I'm sorry. I just saw Scott yesterday. That's why. Not only does the Democratic base not want to debate right now, they're demanding that their politicians grind government to a halt. They shut down the government because they want to stop Trump from serving. But I fundamentally am in agreement with you.

38:10The people would love debates. The country was founded on debates. And they know that's how we solve our problems. And so I think debates are a good thing. Let me ask you a question. I interviewed Eric Kirk last week, the widow of Charlie Kirk. And we talked about debates and being in a debate. But not just being in a debate, also being a missionary. So there's one element is debating an issue. The other is whether whether debaters ultimately change their mind, meaning that you can win the debate and actually win over and persuade the other side. How often do you feel that you actually change your mind at the table?

38:47Oh, my mind. Yeah. Oh, you know, I look, I tend to absorb news every day. And so, you know, the things we're covering tonight may change tomorrow based on absorbing news is different than changing your mind. New information. I'm saying that you don't change your mind. I don't change my values, but when I take in new information. He's a gladiator behind enemy lines. That's what you are. That's what you are, and that's why your visibility has gotten to the point where it isn't. Because it was necessary because it was 99 to 1 until now. But it is possible to take in new details and new information and say, okay, this has altered my arguing or debating back here.

39:25Can you remember? Give me an example. When's the last time that happened? Oh, well, things change every day. hey, Trump changes everything. When I wrote this book, I had to write it five times because things are changing with him week to week. And so I think the best debaters are the ones who stay current. Well, with the president, is it you don't want to sacrifice the perfect or the good for the perfect at times? Aren't there times where you, what do you say? You agree with 70 % of the stuff? Oh, with the president? Oh, no, far more. Look, I'm a Republican. I've been a Republican my entire life.

39:54But you just said he's not a Republican. He is a Republican, but sometimes he's not conservative orthodox on certain policy vectors and that's okay. I mean, I'm able to absorb what he's doing and give you the best argument for it. I'm also able to tell you why a Republican or a conservative might be uncomfortable with it. And I'm also here to tell you why a Democrat alternative would be a disaster. And so you gotta understand all angles of it. When you just say those words about Trump, do you know that there's 40 % of the country that thinks you're absolutely out of your mind? And this guy has, just go down the list, rapists, 42 felons.

40:30I hear it every day. The TDS is like, it's a cultural, I think we'll look, I think it'll be in history books what has happened. I agree with you. Yeah. I mean, the reaction to him, it goes back to 2016. It's a question of legitimacy. A lot of people just have never believed he was a legitimately elected president, and that justifies a lot of political action. Scott, I see my own Twitter comment. You don't read your Twitter comments, do you? Not often. Never read the comments they tell you. I don't recommend, and I don't recommend I read mine, but I do anyway and I answer, which I really shouldn't do.

41:07How much do you enjoy? I did his radio show, by the way. We all talk about him being on CNN. This is like Mr. Radio. How much do you enjoy that? I love radio. Versus the TV piece of it? I love the radio show. You were importing your CNN-style guests onto your radio? Yes. Interesting. Thank you. He did great. He had a book that came out. You imported a foil for you. Yeah. But we had a good conversation. Look, when I was a teenager, my first job was in radio, and I was putting on two things on the air, Paul Harvey and Rush Limbaugh. And so everything I know about radio, I learned from those two guys, listening to them for years.

41:38And that's what I'm trying to do. Good day. I don't think everybody knows Paul Harvey. Paul Harvey was a legend, but the man knew how to use words to paint a picture and tell a story about the news. And it was called Paul Harvey News and Comment, which I think is what people want to hear. Are we headed for a civil war, or is there going to be some type of resolution of the fighting factions on both sides of the political divide today? Because I'm not optimistic the way things are. We're going to be okay? I think we're going to be fine. We've been doing this for 250 years, and this is a great time for Americans to realize that things get a little heated, but we solve our problems through debate and voting, not violence.

42:14They just voted in New York City. Yeah. They're going to learn, aren't they? Sometimes you learn. It would be nice if we didn't have to learn that way, wouldn't it? Well, it's not just New York. Socialism and an affinity for it is on the rise on the left right now. And so it'll be a good thing for us to debate in 26 and 28. I don't think most of America is going to go for it. We're just actually having a conversation. Who, for lack of a better term, who takes the MAGA mantle in the next election? Well, I mean, I asked Trump once who's best equipped to hold your coalition, and he answered me for about five minutes and never gave me a single name.

42:53But it's obvious J.D. Vance is, if he wants the nomination, he's going to get it. And Trump obviously likes him and Rubio as a team. And he's aiming in that direction. I think they'd be pretty formidable. But it's hard to replace him. Who do the Democrats run? They're a mess. I don't know. I mean, they're so wide open. I'll tell you, though, they're a little about where the Republicans were after 2012, kind of demoralized. And what did the Republicans do? They looked outside. They went away from the normal party. They were forced to look outside. Well, they had 17 other choices they picked outside.

43:25It was coming down an escalator and people were rolling their eyes. I know. I guess what? You're suggesting that it's going to be somebody coming off on a different type of escalator. I'm suggesting that when people are upset with party or party leadership, they tend to start looking around for other ideas. That's what the Republicans did, and they wound up with Trump. I don't know what the Democrats will do. I also think the energy in their party is with the radicals. And they held them off in 16 and 20, but I'm not sure they're going to hold them off in 20. We're going to let you go. Do you feel like you've been in Paris now and you don't want to go back to the farm?

43:58Is that did that cross your mind? Now I've been to the mountaintop. I got my passport stamped over here. I'm going to go back. Come back. Country. Come back. I like I can relax for a second when you're here. I like I like you here, Scott. Thank you. Thank you. Again, his book is called A Revolution of Common Sense. And, yep, it's got a picture of President Trump. Go get it for Christmas.

44:21Conservative Supreme Court justices signaling they're going to back President Trump's removal of a member of the Federal Trade Commission. The court heard more than two hours of arguments in that case. It was sparked when the president tried to fire a Democratic FTC member back in March before her term was over. the court's conservative wing appearing to be sympathetic to the administration's argument that congressional protections given to the head of independent agencies infringe on presidential power. So we're going to watch this. It's a fascinating case. In watching, I didn't realize that supposedly the executive branch power has been increasing for a century, supposedly.

45:02And that this is not... Because you know when, if they do come down and vote for him, you know what the rhetoric is going to be, that the Supreme Court's stacked and there's conservatives on there. But look what it did under FDR. But they're going to say that they rubber-stamped because they're Trump appointing some of them, and that's what this... But it's really been a movement that's been going on for years and years and years. Oh, I see. The question is, do you want... How important is it to you that these agencies have... But they're in the executive branch, aren't they? I understand that, but there's a distinction.

45:34The argument is, even if you are outnumbered, that having a Democrat or two or a Republican when the Democrats are in control on these agency boards, commissions, if you will. But it's been by convention, not by law. That it creates, hopefully. Some stability. Some stability and better answers. There's an argument for it, but it's been done through convention and not through law. That's what the elections have consequences. And the president gets to put the people that he wants in charge of these agencies. Then in the next election, if you don't like it, vote for the other guy. He'll put all the other people in there.

46:09But it's the executive branch. I think that's what they're going to decide. That may be what they decide. The question that I would ask is a separate one, which is what is the better outcome? What is the better outcome? Honestly. Depends on who's in the White House. But that's the point. To the extent that we just had a great conversation with Scott about debating, about the value of debating. Having even a gadfly inside the system. I'm not arguing. We won't get anywhere, though. But I don't know that you can back up. Should we have stacked the deck for net neutrality the way that was done? Should we have stacked the deck for these ridiculous environmental guidelines that we got in a different administration?

46:45We're back to the original argument of who's right about all these political things. The point is we're talking about not stacking the deck. The point is we're talking about there will always be a majority, but you do want to have a minority on these commissions. Commissions. This sounds like an argument for the filibuster, which you want to get rid of. Who says I use that one? Oh, I didn't mean you. I meant you. You, you. I don't want to get rid of it. And that is the pod for today. Thank you, as always, for listening. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern.

47:24To get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Please follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. Have a great day. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow. We are clear. Thanks, guys.