#2277 My Body Tutor: Remote Coaching as a Service

0:00Hey there, Freedom Fighters. You know me. My name is Andrew Warner. I'm the founder of Mixergy where I interview entrepreneurs about how they built their businesses. You know, a lot of my friends for a long time after take, in fact, I don't like saying a lot of my friends. Let me talk about one specifically, Noah Kagan. Frickin' guy, before he put a bite of food in his mouth at lunch one time, took a photo out. I go, dude, are you putting this on Instagram? He goes, no, no, I'm sending it over to Adam. I go, what Adam? He goes, you know, our friend, Adam Gilbert. I go, why does Adam need to see what you're eating?

0:26He goes, he needs to hold me accountable. I'm working out with him. I go, this is really an interesting thing to do. And Noah did it. And then other friends over the years had done it. And now my partner in Bootstrap Giants, Jesse Poogee, is working not with Adam, but with one of Adam's coaches, trainers remotely. I go, there's something really interesting here. Years ago, if I would have seen the interesting thing behind this business, human beings getting text messages from other human beings, holding each other accountable, I would have thought, nah, the audience only cares about software. Today, I'm noticing that entrepreneurs are really fascinated by these businesses that are human run, not software run.

1:06And I don't know of another person who I should be talking to about this beyond Adam Gilbert, because not only has he done it with My Body Tutor and has built it up over the years as a service where if you're trying to get fit, he'll have remote trainers work with you and get you there. But now he's created a new thing for people in business who are trying to be business fit, hold their calendars accountable and themselves accountable. It's called Done Daily. And so I want to see how it worked back then and now how he's building a similar business today. I invited him out here. Adam, good to see you.

1:36Likewise, man. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. So how many years have you been doing this? 18 years. 2007, I started. Did you feel a little bit of inadequacy in the period where SaaS was the only thing that mattered in the entrepreneurial world? You know, it's funny. This is a very mission-driven business for me, so I really never was bothered by it. So no, but people certainly wanted to only talk about that. That was fine. Okay. You know, I'm going to ask you what your revenue is. What can you tell me about what the revenue is? Well, I don't share that publicly. We have 75 coaches.

2:13It's a wonderful business. It's in the millions. But that is all I will share. Profitable? Yes. How many of the 18 years was it profitable? Since day one. Wow. And in the beginning, it was just you, right? It was just me. Then we hired another coach, another coach, another coach. And yeah, it's pretty amazing now we're up to 75 coaches. How do you go from being someone who has the job that every mom would be proud of, Ernst & Young auditor, on a career path, to then going off and, I don't know, doing personal training, which I think a lot of moms might worry that their kid's becoming a meathead.

2:55And it doesn't have, it's not as lucrative as being a consultant. How do you make the leap and why'd you make that leap? Yeah. So, you know, growing up, my father was very sick. I witnessed him having a heart attack. A few days later, he had triple bypass surgery. And then later that year, he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Tough year for my dad. But when you say you witnessed him having a heart attack, you're saying you were in the room with him when he had the heart attack? So my parents were divorced. He called my sister, who was actually learning how to drive at that time, and we drove him to the hospital.

3:26So I saw him having a heart attack, saw him in the room, hooked up to everything. Yeah, it was pretty, pretty scary. Wow. Okay. And what did you take away from that? That health is true wealth. And that without it, nothing means all that much. What was your health like? And what was his health like before all this? So he smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. He didn't exercise. He didn't eat nutritiously. He was, you know, a workaholic and he didn't take care of himself whatsoever. And, you know, later that year, he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and I watched him deteriorate mentally and physically throughout the years until he passed away.

4:06um so for me health has just always been i mean it's really starting with that heart attack a huge passion of mine just because it's just um it's so important it's everything right the old what's the first thing that you did after that how did you change your life at that point i started really watching i mean i was in seventh grade i started really watching when i was eating i started exercising i started becoming really passionate about it i would read everything i get my hands on. And it just became kind of this obsession. You know, there are two ways to go about something like this. I've been trying to be I think I've been healthy my whole life.

4:43If I worry about being out of shape or fat or whatever, it doesn't motivate me enough. There's something about working out where I have to feel like I am a Superman for doing it, for it to be exciting for me. You know, like with business, I do for some reason drive myself with fear of what happens if like I can't make it work. I used to, I don't know that I do anymore. But I wonder when you were trying to work out, it's not a very motivating thing to do. You better not to tell yourself, work out harder or else you're going to get sick like your dad, work out harder or else you're not going to survive.

5:16Is it? You know, for me, my motivation, I have two kids is my kids. I mean, I grew up, there was definitely times where it was a little bitter where my dad was on the sidelines. I have very few memories of playing with my dad. So I always want to be available for my kids. I always want to play with them. I always want to be participating. But before you had kids, was it motivating for you to think about the pain of not doing it right, of not getting it? I mean, I guess fear was, you know, I was for some reason terrified of hospitals. I mean, it's just very, seeing all those things hooked up. So for me, it was more just, I was fearful of getting sick, but it was also, I do feel better when I'm taking care of myself.

5:59I have the most energy. I'm the best version of myself when I'm eating nutritiously and I'm exercising. Okay. I get it. So then you say, I'm going to be healthy. I guess that what you did was after graduating from school, you took a job in New York at Ernst & Young, right? Yeah. What's the leap that allowed you to then go and be a personal trainer? Yeah, so I always knew I wanted to get involved in health fitness, but I kind of, you know, my parents really pushed me to focus on accounting as well, even though I studied nutrition in college as well. So I always knew I would do something in it. But when I was at Ernst & Young, I was the go-to guy for fitness.

6:35I was the go-to guy for nutrition. And it was always the same story. I would give my friends and colleagues advice or plan, and it was the same story. I love the plan you made for me, but. and the but was I got caught up with work, client engagements, travel, life, happy hour, kids, you name it, right? And these people had a plan. We agreed on the plan together. They loved it, but they weren't following through. Tell me about one guy, like you were telling me about Mark before. Yeah, so Mark, one of my friends there, he was about 30 pounds overweight. I'd given him a plan and it was the same story.

7:11It was, I love this but, and I realized the missing link there was daily accountability. There needed to be a way for me to communicate with him every day. And that was the big idea for my body shooter was, sure, we're going to tell you exactly what you need to eat, exactly what you need to do for exercise. We're going to help you get through anything and everything that gets in the way, but we're going to make sure you're following through day in and day out. That was the big idea. You know what? I get that. I hate when personal trainers, business coaches, anybody at all, if they tell you what you need to do and you're not getting it done and they blame you as the customer, they blame you as the end user, you must not want it enough.

7:51That's not really an answer. I get that there's some limit to how much outsiders can support a person, but if someone's signing up and they're saying, I can't do it, I think it's on the service provider to say, I will find a way to help you out. 100%. It drives me crazy. I'm a big basketball fan. And, you know, there are coaches who they need players to fit their system, whereas I think the best coaches will mold their team and mold the way they play to their personnel. And I totally agree with you. If the plan is not working for the client, it's not the client's fault. It's our fault because we need to adjust and make sure it's realistic and practical based on the realities of their life.

8:34Okay. So then what's the first version that you took that became this business? What kind of accountability? So it was very simple at first. It was email and text-based. We have a phone call. We learn about what your goals are, what your challenges are, whether it's emotional eating, stress eating, mindless eating, self-sabotage, fear of success. There's all sorts of things that get in the way. And surprisingly, a lot of them are between our ears. But we would talk about all that. We would come up with a plan. And then every day they would email us what they ate, what they did for exercise if it was an exercise day.

9:04And then every single day after, I would write back to them with personalized feedback, suggestions, and encouragement. All right. And then at what point did you decide to charge for this? I'm laughing because this seems so simple. And I am 100 % behind this. Let me just talk about my personal point of view on this stuff that I remember I thought of myself as a very hungry entrepreneurial kid. I finally got to start my own business. And I have journal entries of me beating myself up for not getting stuff done. I can't believe I spent the whole day. There were no calls and no obligations, and I still didn't get it done.

9:34What's wrong with me? And then at some point, I inched my way towards enough success that I could hire someone. I hired my friend Crystal from high school. She started working with me and what I realized was I instantly became productive. And it was partially because there's someone watching me and so I couldn't get into this mental loop of not being productive or not getting things done. But also if I was stuck, there was someone who'd say, hey, I think I could take that off your hands or what if you try a different way? All that was incredibly eye-opening. I, when it was time for me to write my book on interviewing, stop asking questions.

10:04I couldn't get it done until I hired two people. One was an editor who happened to be our friend Noah Kagan's editor too. I just hired her personally. I said, every week I want you to guide me. And then I would go on, what is it called? Focusmate. And I would have someone watch me as I typed and otherwise I couldn't get it done. And this type of thing feels like such a, I don't know, mental crutch, but sign me up. If a mental crutch is what I need in order to keep walking, I'm going to keep doing it. But the reason I'm laughing is If I had that idea like you did, I would have thought, this is not a big enough idea.

10:35This seems a little too simple. It could be reproduced. This is for people who are weak. How did you get past that to recognize that there was enough of a business in here that you can actually build 18 years on it and a family on it and so much else? Yeah, I mean, that's a great point. So two things. Number one, my thesis from day one was that people know what to do. We know what's good for us. We know a salad is better for us than cookies. We know we should exercise. We know all this. So especially when I first started, like it was interesting on the online space because My Body Tutor has always been online.

11:07You know, people were selling courses. They were selling knowledge. We always felt the follow through was the missing link. The accountability was the missing link. And every person I would talk to, you ask them, everyone feels like they know exactly what to do in order to lose weight. They just can't do it consistently. And consistency, to me, is the biggest problem in health and fitness. And that's what we solve. So for us, we felt like, no, we have the missing link. It's not about knowledge. It's about making sure you're following through. And we boiled it down to three reasons. And that's what My Body To Resolve about is those three reasons.

11:40And then in terms of just your point of, you know, it wasn't big enough. So for many years, I've always wanted to do my own thing and be an entrepreneur and help people. I always thought I had to start the next Google or Facebook or whatever it was. And I did nothing because I just kept being like, oh, it's not big enough. It wasn't until I focused on going smaller and I thought small is the new big. That's when I started to get action going. That's when I started to get momentum going. And I was like, you know what? You love helping people lose weight, get fit. Start with one person instead of trying to create the next Google.

12:13Okay. And so you said, look, I'm not going to try to make this into this big product that I know will survive for what, 18 years or so. I just am going to think about one person. Who's the first person you sold it to? Yeah. So the first, I mean, so I had my friends at Orange Zone, but the first person I sold it to was this client named Simi. I'll never forget. I mean, when I launched My Body Tutor. So back then, I don't know if you remember AOL Instant Messenger, I actually had my AIM screen name on the website and people would IM me and I would talk with them. And Simu was my first client. And I was like, listen, just give me a chance.

12:45If we don't help you, we'll give you your money back in 30 days. We still offer a money back guarantee because I believe in what we do that much. And she was our first client and she realized her biggest challenge as many people is consistency. And, you know, thankfully she referred us to some people and just slowly but surely it started to grow. And so you were, at what point did you make enough money that this could be the full-time thing. How long did it take to get to that? So my only goal, so I quit Ernst & Young. I started Ernst & Young in 2005. I quit there in January of 2007. Started my body tutor in February of 2007.

13:24My only goal was to be able to make my rent that first month in New York City. I did not want to move home. That was not an option. And I was able to make my rent that first month. And it was just slowly but surely. I mean, back Wait, within one month of getting people to pay you for doing this? Yeah. From February of 2007 to April of 2007, we really... I actually... So back then I was advertising on Facebook. And back then it was Facebook flyers before we even had the whole advertising system. I remember. Yep. And we actually had so many clients we had to shut down the advertising. I say we, I did.

14:02You. What was the flyer? What was the offer that was so compelling? It was just summer is coming. Will you be ready? Let my body sure help you. And we had a very interesting, funny image of a guy with just a big beer belly. And it works. You know, Adam, I'm laughing because it doesn't even say anything special about or unique about what you're offering. It's just another weight loss thing. But because I guess you were early in Facebook ads, it worked. What were you charging per month for this? Back then it was$75 for six weeks. 75 for six weeks and then count of daily coaching it wasn't even subscription no it wasn't subscription so it wasn't until april 2007 where a friend's like a friend suggested but even more so all my all the clients who had started were like i want to keep going so it was like what can you do that's when the it was like all right turn this into a subscription and then we moved it to four weeks a monthly membership okay all right how hard was it to explain what this is It was tricky, but I think people really got it pretty quickly because it was, listen, we're going to tell you what to do, but most importantly, we're going to make sure you're actually doing it.

15:11And I think that value prop was really compelling for people because they all felt like they had a plan. They would read articles, they'd read books, whatever it was, but they weren't following through. Our whole promise was we're going to make sure you're following through day in and day out. And so you would have a list of all your customers, I'm assuming in like an Excel spreadsheet, if not a Google sheet. and you were just keeping track of, did you message each one of them? What did they say? You don't even have to keep track of what they said in the last message. Aim or text or whatever keeps track of it.

15:37And that was it. That was it. What else was it? Am I missing something? I'm assuming you also kept their goals on each person's record. But it was also, I mean, we're certainly accountability experts, but there's also more to it in terms of what we were offering, right? So it wasn't simply just good job, bad job. Why do you do it? But I think we do three things really well. Number one, we come up with a plan that is catered and customized to the client. Number two, we focus on what we call their MPH, their mindset, psychology, and habits, their relationship with food, things like emotional, mindless, stress, eating, and then, of course, the accountability.

16:13But I think we're also experts in terms of like, for so many people, they can't get out of their own way. And that's where the MPH component, the mindset, psychology, habits component really comes into play. Okay. So then this was you. Facebook ads, shut it down. what was the next step, buying more ads or bringing in another coach? Bringing in another coach and starting to look at solutions where I could manage other coaches and see what they were writing. So we worked with a firm in Colorado that built a system for us that is still the basic system. And we've redone it many times since, but that idea of just each day you're uploading photos of what you ate or writing descriptions of what you ate, you're submitting that at the end of the day.

16:54And then your coach goes in the following day and writes back in this system. And this was a text-based system that you had built for yourself. And how much did it cost you to get this first version? The first version, I mean, when we hired a firm, it was$18 ,000. I remember thinking, wow, this is insane. I cannot believe I'm spending this amount of money to build this software, but it was a whole backend system. And the key thing was I was able to have other users and I could be the admin and I could check in how they were writing because I've always been obsessed with quality. And that was a big limiting, that was a big bottleneck until I figured out systems and people.

17:35How did you figure it out? What was the issue that you had with it? And then how'd you figure that out? Well, very quickly, I'll share it. My definition of self-sabotage is when you fear the very thing you say you want to accomplish, right? So you want to grow, you want to serve more people, but on some level you fear that. And I think if you look at any small business owner or any business owner, they feel like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders. They feel like they have no time. And if they get busier, they're only going to be more busy and have less free time. It wasn't until I realized that I had to have the right person.

18:07So we hired a head coach. I had the right system where I can manage coaches. That is where the big breakthrough happened. Whereas I realized if we serve more people, if we get more clients, life will actually be better off, not worse off. And so often a lot of entrepreneurs, they say they want to grow, but on some level, they're kind of putting their foot on the gas and break at the same time because they know that if they get busier, they're going to have even less free time. I kind of assume that you were running as a coach for a long time. I know that you still are. You still coach people. What point did you stop doing day-to-day coaches?

18:43I still work with a small handful of people. But I would say, you know, we're year 18. I would say starting year two, year three, I really started spending a lot of my time helping coaches, managing them, helping them be the best version they can. And, um, but you know, I really, that was, that was a big part of it. But the real big change for me was when my first son was born. Cause I was coaching most of our clients back then. And it was like, this is not sustainable. This is crazy. I can't do this anymore. I do find that that happens to a lot of people. They get a kid or they're about to have a kid and they say, okay, now it's time for me to really systemize.

19:24Cause I can't handle it. I know that happened for me. I think Jesse had written about that too before his first son was born he decided I can't continue like this working non-stop and then it makes you a better entrepreneur for working less which is like a mind fuck totally, totally that was huge for me because I think right before my first son was born I mean I was probably working with 80 clients I was just, it was all day long it was crazy and I was just like this is no way and I realized I was the bottleneck in the business like that's not good All right. So first was Facebook Flyers. What came up after that?

20:00We actually did not advertise for many, many, many years after that. Thankfully, word of mouth just really spread. How? What's the deal with word of mouth? What is it? People just actually like it enough that they're going to go tell their friends? There's no virality built in it. Well, I think when someone loses weight, they become a natural walking billboard, right? And people say, hey, what did you do? And I think when people really love a service and when something has helped them and they've tried seemingly everything under the sun and nothing's worked, they can't help but talk about you.

20:34So for us, we got really, I mean, we still have amazing clients who support us and they spread the word because they're doing something that's working when nothing else has worked for them. You know what? That is true. Like when someone loses weight or puts on muscles, they can't stop talking about the personal trainer they got, the system they have. It really is. It's an opportunity to brag without bragging exactly, you know, like you get to brag about what you did by talking about someone else and make it more acceptable. So there was no like affiliate program, commission program, discount program, none of that.

21:09Just they tell their friends. They tell their friends and thanks. I mean, I can literally trace, you know, our business to like three or four people. Just they've told, I mean, it's amazing. Interesting. Okay. So I, I hear now where you are with this. At what point did you start to grow beyond, um, beyond that? What, and once you did beyond, um, word of mouth, what's the next step? So then it was just about finding, you know, our goal. We don't have revenue goals. Our only goal is to hire world-class coaches. And I think things really started to change. Once, you know, my first son was born, Zachary, and it was like, hey, like, let's systematize this.

21:48Let's we have a process. We have core tactics. We have core philosophies that we teach. Let's find incredible coaches. And once we did that, it's always every year, it's just about how do we add a few more of these world class coaches? Why? I would have thought that to be honest with you, until I until I really looked in your site in preparation for this interview, I just assumed that what you had was a few people overseas who were able to just send out text messages, use a lot of scripts, and that's it. No. Why can't it be that? Why does it need to be a real trainer? Yeah, that's a good point.

22:24I mean, so all of our coaches are certified health coaches. They come to us with extensive experience. You know, if someone is just saying, good job, bad job, did you do this, did you not do that, that's not really all that helpful. I mean, it's helpful, but we're also experts, right? We're experts in behavior and habit change. We're experts in emotional and chest eating. So we're way more than just accountability. So, yeah, I mean, I guess you could do that, but there's no way clients would stick with it if they felt like it was just some person mailing it and checking on them, you know, randomly.

22:58Like you really want someone who can answer your health questions without having to Google it. Your customers can tell. Yeah. And it's also like you have to be an expert to help someone change the way they think in reactive food, the way they use food. Right. You can't you can't just tell someone, oh, like try harder or do better. Like that's not helpful. There's a reason every behavior has a motivation. Right. There's a reason people emotionally. There's a reason people stress eat. And that's a big part of what our coaches help our clients do is like because, again, these people will know what to do.

23:29Why can't we do it? That's the big question. That's what I thought it would be nothing like nothing but having another human being check in on you that matters. No, it's not just accountability. No, it's not just accountability. And that's your point. Like if someone was just, you know, checking in from you, you know, some overseas, like, and just like, Hey, how did today go? Like, would you really care? There's no relationship there, right? Our coaches and clients have a real relationship. They check in every single day. How do you know? Like I, I'm not making this stuff up. I remember talking to Tim Ferriss and telling him that I was trying to eat better.