#2290 He’s building an AI media empire

28:11Let's talk about where the difficulties are if someone wants to create something like this. And then let's riff for a little bit about how someone can create a different version of this, something that's a little more attainable. What's the difficulty that I don't see on the outside? Particularly most consumer products, right, or most products, you know, the problem that you really have to solve is distribution, right? is that we, particularly in a time where you have all these tools like, you know, Vibe Coding, Lovable, so on and so forth, where everyone can create the product, you can, you know, it's a great time in the sense that, you know, if you ever, you know, if you were ever the person at a party saying that have, you know, the idea for the next Uber, well, congrats, now you can do it, right?

28:49You can actually go out and build your next Uber. So I think the problem is actually not so much in, there's some things that are still difficult, but the problem is not so much execution as much as the distribution part. It's like getting people to actually use it, right? And that you can think in different ways, right? And no one can give you kind of a formula. But what I can tell is the way I go about it is essentially, you know, is to figure out the model in which you, a model in which essentially you retain, they retain customers. Again, sounds a bit vague as well in itself, But let's say, for instance, one thing I do quite a lot, which is paid acquisition, right?

29:32It's sort of a level playing field in the sense that everyone can do it, right? You can give your credit card to Facebook or Google and ask them to run your ads or TikTok or something like that. You know, so it's not difficult to get started, right? What's difficult is to actually get the economics to work for you, right? Particularly because it's an auction model, right? And so you're going to have people bidding against you. So how do you win them? you need to outbid them. To outbid them, essentially you need to have a better economic model than they do, right? And so essentially what I would say is that part is that figuring out, for me specifically, it depends on what you're doing, but figuring out economics is probably the hardest, most difficult part.

30:13Like what? What's missing about it? Here's what I heard you say on Nathan Latka's podcast. You said, first of all, you're an experienced ad buyer. This is one of the things that you brought to Spotify growth. Second thing you said is you like Facebook for your product. Dream Stories does well there. Third thing you said was that you try to get your cost per acquisition to be the same as your average order volume. Those are the basics. What else is there? Let's go deeper than that clip that I saw. But even that, by the way, I should say, if I could get my CAC to be lower than my OV, that's bad, right?

30:47You're essentially making more money. But what I also said is that there's this interesting thing in advertising that a lot of agencies tend to optimize for this row of one, meaning that you basically spend$60 to earn$60, right? But when I say earn, it's like literally revenue. But out of that revenue, you need to, if you're selling a physical product or you have cogs, you need to take them off. And so essentially, you're losing money on every sale, right? If you do that, right? So your only hope to recoup is to essentially turn that into a repeat purchase. but the cool thing about what we do in in our case and again this is different for every market right for instance spotify was different as well right we at spotify the model was we have a great free product right we're going to acquire people to the to the you know it's at the time there was not as much competition for attention either so both cpms were lower so it was cheaper to acquire to acquire people to the front door get them to listen to a few music and then out of them you know i i'll say a random number because i actually don't remember top of my mind but let's say 40 percent of them convert to premium right something like that and so then you just make the math and you see if the thing the if if the maths works particularly you know assuming that subscription you're going to have revenue over time um in in in our case you know i should say that the market is far more competitive now than it was when you know in in in online media than it was when i was doing that at spotify but the cool thing i think we have is that we're we we you know we we didn't try to come up with something that is very exotic that doesn't exist in the market right you know In fact, some people out of that podcast criticized that, oh, but haven't you seen this other product that also exists?

32:28Yeah, exactly. That was partial intention. The category exists. And because the category exists, that means the customer is educated about what they're about to buy, which is a personalized book. But what you then need to do is to convert that novelty purchase into a repeat customer that buys many things. And that's where I set the focus on bedtime, the focus on being episodic. You know, that's why we're not doing ABC books. You know, people ask me things. Well, can I get a book about ABC? I was like, no, I'm not interested in that. Right. There's no there's no repeatability to that. I see. You know what?

33:05You mentioned earlier your previous company, Kenco. What you did there was smoothies that don't need a blender. It was like little pouches that you add into water, mix it up. And that was also repeat business. So it seems like that's what you're in the headspace of. You're saying, what can I create that people need to buy multiple times? Something like coffee, but it's got to be new. It's got to be innovative. And that's what you're thinking about with books too. Exactly. Finding a repeatable pattern, right? You hit the nail on the head. You know, I've been doing subscription most of my life, right?

33:38And the usually thing I tell people is that, you know, subscription is not this. I tend to be very against this. I have done it as well, I should confess. But every time you go to this website and you see this subscribe and save 30 % or something like that, I tend to be quite against that in principle. I've advised other founders on this and so far I've been correct that it improved their funnels in which that when you do that, you're actually confusing your customer because what you're telling them is that, listen, I can either buy this one time or I can subscribe. And so people are not dumb, right?

34:12They'll be like, there must be a catch, right? They're going to get my credit card. They're going to bill me. I'm not going to be able to cancel this, you know, so on and so forth, right? So you're kind of dangling this 30 % discount or whatever if you subscribe. And that's not what you want to do. What you want to do is you want to build like a service, something that actually is a service in which subscription is just a feature of that service. And the example I can tell is that if I came to your, you know, if I basically, if let's say AT &T or something, cut your internet every month, right?

34:40And this sucks, man. And it's like, can you please keep this on? You don't want to go to the AT &T store to buy internet again. So it's a service that you've now grown accustomed to and that you're willing to pay because you're just using it. So you're happy to have a subscription billing. And so I think the challenge is creating that. And so with Kenco, we were trying to solve breakfast, which is highly episodic every day. Most people, it's the meal of the day that seems to be more boring in a way in the sense that there's less change. Boring and mindless. You do the same thing every day. Exactly.

35:13You know, if I tell you, you know, you're going to eat Thai curry every night, you're going to call me crazy, right? But it's kind of easy to say, well, you're going to have this propracus every single day. Use yourself, right? And so essentially, that's been my goal, right, to turn. I actually remember at Spotify, we always quoted this David Bowie quote, which was, you know, music is going to become like running water or electricity. So it's the same thing, right? It's a service, right? You want to have that tap where you open music, close music, right? But Ricardo, what I'm trying to understand is if you're not immediately getting people to subscribe, instead you're selling one-offs.

35:49In fact, actually, I think what I see is the user can buy one book or there's a discount if they buy two. But you're not doing it as a subscription and that's intentional. You're saying to the user, look, just buy one or two. And then if you want, you come back, right? Or am I missing the subscription option? No, that's correct. That's correct. There's a few reasons for that. I think we will probably add the subscription in the future. There's a few things I want to get in place before we get that. But there was essentially, I can maybe go into detail in a minute about it. But the way you described it is correct.

36:26That's exactly what it is, right? So what's the difference between that and the subscribe and save, which you tell people not to create? No, I mean, but right now it's not subscribe and save, right? You pay the exact same thing, like if you buy another book. So we don't have a subscribe and save plan. What I'm trying to say is that you mix when you have the option, buy one time or subscribe and save, then that's when you're confusing the user, right? Because you're saying... I see, you're saying pick for them. Let them pick one to buy or a subscription. Tell them how you work and don't try to confuse them and make them think that you're tricking them into a lifetime purchase.

36:58Yeah, exactly. I mean, by the way, it's fine for you to have a subscription and tell people you can cancel any time, all these other things, right? But when you mix the two things, you're just adding confusion. And I told you that I've advised people on this, that there's someone I know that's actually a very prominent influencer that has a supplement product where she had these two options. And what I told her is that, listen, you're telling people that they should consume this every day, but then you give them the option to buy one time. You're actually confusing them. And I said, and if you don't trust me, just test it.

37:29Do an A-B test. Have a funnel with subscription only and a funnel where you give both choices and then see what the conversion does. And lo and behold, the one with subscription actually increased conversion because it reduced that. Because again, you're introducing this point of where there are people wondering, wait, what's the catch here? Why is it cheaper to do it? There must be a catch. People are not dumb. They will think there's a catch, right? And so I think that that's what I'm against, right? In my case, so I think your question is sharp, right? But I think that in this case would apply if I would have both options, right?

38:05And so objectively, I don't have subscriptions just yet. But I can tell you why. The reason I don't have it is because for one of the things that we're working on is, and I should probably say this earlier, but right now, you know, the books that you can read, like I said, were essentially my stories, right? The stories I created for my child and that you can go and put your family in it. And over time, we added, you know, the ability to customize it and people heavily customize it. but it still follows roughly the plot I set you know myself you know because that was my aspiration for my child you know you're going to have a different one and like you said you're going to have other people have a religious one a moral one different things right and I think that the the essentially we you will only I think we can only earn the right to become a service once we give you essentially full agency in a way.

38:59I see. Because then that becomes sort of the infinite content machine, right? As in that you essentially can sell, you can say, listen, you pay this much and you get like three, four stories or maybe your bill based on how much usage. But essentially create the service as opposed to a fixed set of products you can buy, right? I see. Actually, that seems counterintuitive. I would have thought that it would be the opposite, that you would have to find a way to write the stories for them if it's an infinite number of stories that are coming at them because if they have to every month log in and figure out what next month's story is, you're giving them a lot of work.

39:31But if you're picking it for them and they discover it with their kids, that's more interesting. Yeah, but they don't have to, right? I mean, actually, I'm glad you asked that question, right? That you went there. Essentially, at the beginning, when you come in, the product is what I'll describe a pull product, right? You come in and you pull the story out of the system, right? and and by the way a lot of people would say well but will reference people have the agency to do so they don't have to i mean when you come in and if you if you tell me you have a three-year-old right and or let's say that i ask i as in the agent ask you like you know what uh you know what do you want to do um how old is your well as your kid you know do you have a sibling so on so forth you know you can probably make an assumption of what you know is it a boy is it a girl you can make an assumption that if it's a boy, it probably likes fire trucks.

40:20If it's a girl, it probably likes these things. And then they just have to ask you like yes or no questions. Right. And then very quickly, you kind of build sort of a memory of who this family is and what their values are and so on and so forth that then you can basically build on. Right. And you can, so it's very quickly becomes a push thing as opposed to a pull thing. So you're right, you know, I don't expect people to come in to alter every single thing. What I expect them is to do that the first time and then it essentially becomes a push thing. You know, as in the episode two and three, I don't need you to necessarily come in, right?

40:54And particularly with, sorry, just to say this, you know, it's the same thing as, you know, how people have this thing that, you know, Facebook's listening to them because, you know, they thought about the kitchen knife and now there's a kitchen knife, an ad for a kitchen knife or something like that. Yeah. So with kids, that's even more predictable, right? I mean, the kids go through sort of, you know, sort of stages of growth. You know, for instance, my child just got a sibling, right? His first weeks were, you know, were very emotional. He dealt very well with his new sibling, but he also had these moments of tantrums, you know, for lack of attention and so on and so forth.

41:28I mean, if you ask ShadGPT this, ShadGPT will tell, well, it's very normal. It happens to every single kid. Well, no shit, right? So your family will have some sort of different flavors, different from mine, but they're not that different. They're a bit predictable in that manner. So you can essentially combine the predictability with the data that you provide. Okay. I get now where you're going. Let's take it away from you and go a little broader. What are some ideas that you might have for creating this customized using AI product to sell people? right you're an investor you give advice to a lot of other entrepreneurs you've created companies yourself if you wanted to come up with a simpler version of what you're doing now customized ai products service book something what would it be it's a very it's actually i really like the question you know i usually tell tell friends that if i would have a a fund would literally be that personalized bc or something like that you know like yeah essentially uh chase you know chase personalization opportunities i you know i can think of there's broad categories right you know for instance i i think vibe coding in a way is that a vibe coding is literally you know your own personal software developer building something personalized for you you know for internal tools or you know if you have a cafe you can have software for your own your own uh your own stuff for uh let me think for consumers so it's actually a hard question in the sense that, you know, in part, I'm exploring the best idea I have in this space, right?

43:03So what would be the second best idea, I guess, that we can think? You know, the thing that comes to mind for me is, you're thinking consumer. I wonder if there's any kind of guidance that could happen in the business space. For example, we talked about Zapier being the sponsor, Wade, the founder, likes the, what is it, the five dysfunctions of an organization, of a team, I forget the name of the book. Anyway, he likes it so much that that, at the end of each internal meeting, everyone's individual contribution to the meeting gets analyzed based on that book using a zap and then DM to them as a coach.

43:37He's doing that manually for people using Zapier. I know that a lot of leaders have their own philosophies and books that they study that I think that they would want to somehow impart to their team. This is our approach. I want to, I want to guide you this way. I want to support you that way. And that kind of customization is not a hard thing to create, right? And so right now it might be something like a zap that you sell individual team members that says, look, I'm going to spend some time with the CEO. I'm going to spend some time, right? Assembling all this. And everyone in the company is going to be, we're going to find a way to give you coaching based on your meeting transcripts, which are shared within an organization and can be zapped in, based on maybe your email, based on also the founder's vision or the leader's vision, right?

44:22There's some kind of coaching that's possible that way. So we spoke about the Zapper tool, right? Another tool that I hadn't contemplated but I do use is that are you familiar with Notebook LM from Google? Yes. So I kind of do a similar thing to what you're describing in that, you know, like I said, I have a large collection of books and one thing I do with every book is I take highlights manually. I like to read physical books but then I actually copy the highlights. It's my way of like of, you know, memorizing them to kind of copy the notes to my computer. So I have a big repository of them.

44:56And I do dump them into notebook LM to do exactly what you described, which is like, you know, I have this problem, you know, base notebook LM is great in that, you know, the base of truth is literally what the stuff you put inside, right, the documents. And thus you can, the query essentially can talk to your books in a way, right? It's a way of thinking about it. So I think you're right. I mean, another thing that people are doing is, you know, they create sort of boards of people they know, let's say you admire Charlie Munger, you know, you can have a bot emulate Charlie Munger and give you advice or GPTs and so forth.

45:27So for sure, I think that could be a thing one could productize for sure, right? I think any one of these things that you can kind of hack together, you know, with high intent is probably something that you could make as a product for a broader audience and essentially take it to 11, right? So essentially make it far better than what you do as a hack. So yes, I will probably be a user of that and an investor as well. Yeah, and you could do it as a service at first right now. The tools are all available to connect together and customize it for companies. And then eventually the APIs are available.

46:05The cost of doing it is not that much and businesses would pay for coaching that helps bring people, so to speak, into the cult of the company, right? That's correct. And there's a few tools that are trying to do this publicly, namely, I forget, Delphi, I think was one, right, where it's trying to... Create a chatbot, basically, based on your approach. Yeah, and you know what's, I think, interesting about that, particularly if we think about what you described, which is like data that's maybe not publicly available, is that these models are becoming commodities, right? I actually just did this because I changed from using GPT to Gemini, and I was actually asked an exercise to see how much I would miss it.

46:45And, you know, not much, frankly, like it's kind of felt like a commodity, right? I used to put gas in one station, I'd do another one. But what's actually valuable is the sort of the ground data, right, that you actually have, right? So, again, the things I put into Notebook LM, for instance, are more valuable, right? And so managing context is actually a very valuable thing in this context, right? So in my case, you know, the context is the family graph, right? That's what I'm curating. and those models will come and go. And as they come, actually, our product tends to get better. But the context is actually figuring out the context management.

47:22So in that way, you can think that all these companies are sort of memory companies in a way, like a waste-organized memory that then gets... There was actually a time where people said that every company is a database company. And I think it's not so different right now in that sense. What's the thing? I heard that from Jim on your team that you talk to customers every single day. Do you talk to one today? I do, yeah. I do talk to them every day, yes. Why? What are you trying to understand by talking with them? Yeah, it's something that, you know, I can't say it's always advisable to do, but it's something I've always liked to do to kind of feel, you know, essentially get a feel for the product.

48:07It's a good way to think about how they are approaching it and so on and so forth. It's also like it's also helps me be a better leader for for the customer support team, you know, in that function. So at Kenko was the same was the exact same thing. And I had a fairly larger team than I than I do now. And I would do the same thing, you know, for at least like an hour of the day or something like that. What did you learn today or what did you learn recently that you didn't know? It feels like this business is pretty straightforward at this point. I primarily I built this product for myself. Right.

48:38So I think it's straightforward. Right. but and you know i'm also somewhat experienced so i trust my judgment that i'm not disillusioned about it but you know when you're doing a product for for families and you know there's always going to be people that that encounter issues that are not as as easy as as as things are to you right and so i i constantly get ideas from you know from i can i can tell i for sure i had ideas that Literally, I would say that customers gave it to me. And I don't mean it in the way that they intentionally suggested, made the suggestion objective that we implemented the suggestion.

49:15It's more than once than that, right? They just noticed a behavior that they were doing. But listen, everyone's doing this and sometimes it even feels like a hack, right? They're trying to hack something together. It's like, oh, wait a minute, is this like something we should actually productize, right? And there's been a bunch of them, you know, that I've noticed people, you know, from doing that. And I think that ideally you would find yourself, like, have the customer support or something that has that sensibility, but it can be difficult, right? And this is why, you know, even it's known that, you know, even Jeff Bezos is the same thing, right?

49:47He would, I'm not saying you would sit and answer emails every day, but notoriously, you would respond to customer emails and that would prompt, like, changes within Amazon when you saw fit, right? So - You can't think of something specific that you had learned recently that changed the way you think about the business, can you? No, so I can tell you that the idea of, I started noticing more. So when I started this, a lot of people told me that a lot of people wouldn't want to create their own content, right? And actually, I got this pull from customers quite a lot, right? I have a lot of emails to show you that the opposite.

50:24People giving me, from all sorts of agency, people that write the entire thing, from people to have just small ideas, right? And so that's a very obvious one, right? You know, people that literally send me an entire script and even drawings of things they want to do. But, you know, but other things are more minutiae within the product, right? I've noticed that, you know, people doing one thing. For instance, if people really like one picture in one image, sometimes they would basically upload that picture as a source image. Instead of uploading a picture of the child, they would upload the AI-generated picture of the child, right?

50:58And initially I thought this is a bit dumb, you know, why are they doing this? But then I realized that, you know what, the problem I told you about the potato photos, like people putting pictures. And I realized that, okay, it turns out that the AI generated photos are actually high resolution and sort of clean of the things around. So I realized this is what people in AI would call synthetic data, right? So essentially they want to use synthetic data to train the models, right? And then we decided to try this and it turns out it actually works really well to increase the quality. So essentially use the AI generated image to generate other images, right?

51:31You know what? To my taste, I understand it. Why? Your co-founder has a photo of him, Phil does, on some article somewhere that I saw. And I go, this looks really good. I could see how he would want this to be his avatar, you know? And I get that that's how people feel. Like you just made the best version of them, the person that they are when they're on the moon. The hair looks right. I don't know what you've done, but you add some kind of light to them, you know, like to make them radiate a little bit. And so I could see that they say, this is the best picture of my kid. I want you to just use that.

52:03That's what I'm seeing. You're saying it's also helping you train your model better? How? When I say synthetic data, it's actually more used in the concept of LLMs, right? But it's like there's this idea that LLMs get better by essentially by having more data. And so, of course, we have the internet data. But at some point, if you believe that that's a constraint to make a model better, you need more data. How do you find more data? And so it sounds kind of bizarre, but there is this idea of synthetic data, which is what if we get AI to generate data that then models use to study? Exactly. So that's what we call synthetic data.

52:37So data that was already created by an AI that is being fed to a training and AI model. So in this case, you know, what I'm saying is that, you know, the way DreamStars works is that you upload a picture. Or back in the day, we'd let you upload multiple pictures. Now we only require one. And then basically we actually, in fact, this was why we stopped. We only we started being able to only upload one was because we we noticed people uploaded multiple pictures. And then we generated like a preview of what this could be like. Right. And then sometimes people like the results, sometimes they don't.

53:09But oftentimes we saw people not liking the, not oftentimes, but when they didn't like the result, we asked them, can you upload a new picture? And that's when you notice that a lot of the times people, the picture they uploaded was an AI-generated photo that we did, that we generated, right? And then we're like, okay, that's a bit strange, but why would they like to? And then we realized that what they were trying to do is that in their mind, they thought that that meant this picture is going to be the picture used. because you have to understand that customers probably think, you know, they don't understand what AI is.

53:38So they probably think that you have someone sitting there cutting the photos, right, and pasting the photo on the book, right? And so, you know, that's how they communicate. Can you use this photo on this page, right? So they think you're literally cutting. They don't think that you're recreating. So that's why they do it, right? They upload the AI-generated photo and say, I want you to use this one. So that's not how we implemented it in the end, but we noticed that, holy shit, people do this and actually the resulting pictures tend to be very good. And that's what I mean, right? That's one phenomenon that I only noticed by virtue of watching customers behave with the product, which ultimately meant that we were able to reduce the number of pictures required to literally just one.

54:23Because then we're like, holy shit, we can essentially just ask for one picture, generate the synthetic version of it, and then say, do you like this? Great. So we generate a few more synthetic versions based on the same thing. So essentially you create four photos that are essentially very, very similar. We just like the different lighting and that tends to be enough to train the model to get consistent results. Okay. All right. And then the other thing that I heard that you do is you've got some kind of agent for customer service. Can you tell me what that is then? I mean, it's quite public, right?

54:50We use, we use Finn. There's a few Finn from intercom. There's a few out there. Yeah. Finn, I think interesting that intercom kind of pivoted the company into, into, into AI agents, as opposed to a tool for customer support. Talk to people about that. Apparently, Intercom had a problem where people didn't see them as an AI company. They saw them as like a human chat company and they needed a way to say, we are this new thing. Don't think of us as an old company, like live person. And so they came up with Fin and that did change the way that people perceive them, right? Yeah, I think they did right.

55:23I mean, changing the name. Yeah, I think you can see the product that they're remnants. I've actually used Intercom before the full AI pivot. You can see remnants of the old product in it, right? But I think they did a good job. It's hard to do this as a company, right? Notoriously or famously, Netflix did this two times, moving their business model entirely to a complete new reality. I think Intercom is navigating the same. I think they've done a good job. Now, it's not amazing, but it's good, but it requires a lot of customization, right? And I would say that I would still recommend it but I think the value, you know, if you go out and try Finn, I think what you're going to be very disappointed is that it takes a lot of tailoring to get it to where you want it to be.

56:09And that's actually one of the reasons why I like to do some level of customer support literally because it gives me a sense also of what, you know, of essentially where Finn is also not doing such a great job and how I can, you know, where is it hallucinating or why is it giving wrong answers or why is it not able to perform something that it should be able to perform, so on and so forth, right? So my point being that when I spend time doing customer support is also a bit with that lens, right? Is with the lens of like, what can I automate, right? Rather than essentially hiring a lot more people to just cover the, you know, increasing sales, how can we just essentially automate this problem away?

56:49Right. Okay. And you've got something that you're using, you were telling me you have an artifact, some document that you use to guide FIN to guide your customer support agent? Yeah. I mean, I think most people have that, right? But it's like, it's a combination of escalation guides. It's a, it's a, it's sort of documentation. We it's yeah, you know, of course, it's quite elaborate, right? That we spend, but I think that beyond the documentation, I think what's most valuable to me is the sort of the, the, yeah, the guides, you know, which inform how you know oftentimes i will you know even when i'm doing myself you know customer support i ask chat gpt or something or gemini to help me answer things and oftentimes i don't like the answers that it gives me as in that you know i found you know i i think throughout all the companies i i worked in basically i usually you know customer support reported to me and so i always crafted like a specific persona in that i want my agents to to impersonate you know agents or human agents, whether humans or AI, I want them to have this persona.

57:50You know, that is not me. It's not me at all. So I'm not responding to customer support, right? I'm enacting like a customer support agent, right? Yeah. And so I spent quite a lot of time. And, you know, again, initially I tried to tell that to my team and I have documents and saying how it is, but they kind of learned a bit more by osmosis, right? And now I'm basically more trying to, how can I get AI to believe like this character, you know? Can I see the doc that you give AI to guide it for how to answer your questions? Unfortunately, I don't have it at hand to show you because it's actually, particularly in the context of Fin, it's kind of broken down in many different things.

58:24Into lots of different things, okay. Yeah, I can probably send it to you. I would have to spend time. So not polishing the document itself, but compiling it for you. Okay. All right. I'd love to be able to show that if that's available. And then the Zap, I'm assuming you don't have that anymore because that was an old Zap that you did for Help a Reporter Out, or is it? Yeah, it was. But actually, when we mentioned this thing, I actually thought I should do it. Actually, there's no reason why that. So it should give me shit for not doing it. Because I think it's particularly with AI, because what I did was exactly how we described it, right?

58:55But the thing you can do with AI now, for sure, is that you can actually get it to pitch out, essentially, right? So it's not just based on keywords, right? You can analyze the content and then essentially can compose even the... So I can basically be in Bali or taking a nap and you could essentially... It'll pitch on your behalf. Yeah, that's usually my running joke in the team is like, can we finally book the trip to Bali, right? The point being that once it's fully... That day never comes, right? But once it's fully automated, we can finally chill because everything is well-oiled. The cool thing about Zapier now is that you can just describe what you said to me.

59:31like you can talk to it you say i'm going to get you uh when when an email comes in from this service i want you to look for this type of company and if it's right i want you to take this action and just just talk to it give it a few minutes it will create the whole automation for you and then just run with it all right i'd love to see it so you're saying i could give you shit if you don't do it yeah you should so you should we should talk again in a week and if i didn't do it you know then uh then i then i i'm out of excuses right all right hell yeah thank you for doing this interview with me.

59:59I'm looking forward to that. And we'll publish it and we'll have other people use the same Zap. Share it, share it, right? The nice thing about Zapier is that you can share your thing. Other people obviously are looking for different types of businesses, but it'll be nice for them to see it. All right, thank you. Thanks, everyone.