244. Pitch to PO: How to Win a Retail Buyer Meeting Without a Broker

0:01Tia Ellis:Welcome to Startup to Scale, a podcast by FoodBevvy. I'm your host, Jordan Buckner. Join me as I talk to aspiring entrepreneurs, seasoned industry experts, and everyone in between as we unlock the keys to growing from startup to scale.

0:18Tia Ellis:When I first started T-Squares, I thought that pitching to retailers was all about just telling my story and how great the product was. But after my first couple of buyer meetings, I realized it's not really just about like your founder story or why you create the company. It's about the retailer, their shells, their customers, and how your product is going to benefit them to create a win-win relationship. So today's guest, Tia Ellis, knows exactly how to bridge that gap and really to help founders craft powerful retail pitches that resonate with buyers and open doors. So in this episode, I really want to break down kind of how to go about pitching your way into your first purchase order with or, you know, particularly without a broker and doing it yourself.

1:03Tia Ellis:Tia, welcome to the podcast today. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, we're gonna have a fun conversation. I love this topic. You know, personally, I pitched a dozen retailers and gotten on shelves to have experienced that full journey. But first off, I would love to start a little bit with your background and what inspired you to start Wildflower Insight and why focus on helping brands win at retail? Yeah. So my company, Wildflower Insight, we actually started as a, believe it or not, brokerage firm. So I was helping quite literally be the middleman and bridge that gap for founders so that they could get their products on retail shelves and realized very quickly that not all founders necessarily needed that middleman or that person in the middle, what they really just needed was the confidence and a lot of the education and the template and really what goes on in those buyer meetings.

1:54And so over the last few years, we've really kind of pivoted and transitioned to teaching buyer or founders how to win in buyer meetings themselves without having to hire somebody and have somebody else run their business for them.

2:07Tia Ellis:I think that's so key. I mean, I'd love to think, right for founders listening to this. When do you need a broker for your company? And when don't you? I typically like to say that unless you are running or rolling out a humongous, like a national account, 2000 plus stores, I am of the personal opinion that you don't really need a broker. There are a lot of amazing retail partners that will allow you to go direct with them. So you can not only have the communication with the buyer and own that retail relationship, but you can also deliver direct to those retail warehouses. So a lot of the times you also and this is highly controversial, a lot of the times you don't even need a distributor as well.

2:47So just being able to understand what it looks like for success for specific brands and what that path is, is a huge piece.

2:57Tia Ellis:No, I think that's so cute. Because you know, even when I was selling to Whole Foods, you know, UNFI is their national distributor, but we were just selling in the Midwest region, and we're able to go through a regional distributor to sell with them and avoid, at least for that account, a lot of the chargebacks and other fees that are usually associated. And usually, you might ask like, hey, who should we work with a distributor? Maybe tell you, Unify or Kehi or someone. But there is some room, especially if you can prove that you will deliver, make things easy and get it to them on time, that they can actually, you can work outside of those systems.

3:31Yeah, I totally agree. I think that there's a lot of ways that you can work outside of the systems. And it's actually advantageous financially for a lot of founders to explore those options, especially early on. Now, it's totally different if you are a very established brand, and you've got the funding to have humongous teams and go for all of the distribution. But a lot of the times, small startup businesses don't have excess money to waste. So it's really important to be intentional with the funds and the way that you're spending your money.

3:59Tia Ellis:You talk a lot about the golden retail rule. What is it and how can founders apply it when pitching the buyers? I love the golden retail rule. And this is something that I learned about maybe four years ago. And it was actually from a retail buyer. So we were in a conversation, I was pitching them a product and she said, Oh, that's great. Like, that's really lovely. You're following the golden retail rule. And it stopped me in my tracks because I thought, wait a second, What is that? Well, the golden retail rule is really this kind of non-spoken strategy and growth plan that buyers somehow expect brands to follow, but it's really not written anywhere or explained or communicated.

4:38So what the golden retail rule is, is the first thing, build out your brand and make sure that it's good. So building it out, doing the test, doing the trial, making sure it sells, the product packaging is right, all of the basics. Then you build your direct to consumer. So that would be your website sales. That's, you know, Amazon. That would be TikTok shop, like all of the things where somebody could order it online and have one case or product delivered to their house. Then you go after the independents. So those would be like the very small retailers, the mom and pop shops, trying to get your product on those shelves.

5:11And the reason that you do that is so that you can collect data on how your product is doing, how sell through is going, how, you know, how interested other customers are to purchase your product, because you want to use that to then build out your deck for some of the larger retail partners that you're going to go pitch to. So then following you work with the independence, then you work with regional retailers, and then you move on to the national accounts. I actually am of the opinion that even wholesale. So those are like the Costco, the Sam's clubs, the BJ's, like those are so far into the capstone accounts.

5:43Those are not like, I never suggest for brands to go after them first, because they just require significant volume, they require significant, you know, PO financing, I mean, so many different additional things that you have to consider when you are trying to get your product on shelf. But when you follow the golden retail rule, you're really building it in a way where you are sustainable and able to continue to grow in a way that is not going to break your system or your model.

6:08Tia Ellis:On the flip side, Tia, what happens when brands don't follow them? There are always the unicorns and always the outliers. However, just Just generally, if brands go after, you know, some of those capstone accounts, so like the Costco, the Sam's Club, the Walmart, you know, whatever it is, I've seen brands go bankrupt. And it's a really scary thing because everybody says, I want to be, when I make it in Walmart or I want to make it in, you know, whatever retail it is, and I get this national role, I want to be a household name. They do everything in their power to do it. But if they really can't sustain it from manufacturing, from financing, from operations, like even trucking, like if they can't do it, they end up getting themselves in trouble with the buyer, with the retailer, with, you know, chargeback.

6:49I mean, there's so many different levels of complexity to making sure that you get on shelf, but stay on shelf. I've literally seen brands go bankrupt because they jump ahead and they try to bite off more than they can chew.

7:01Tia Ellis:Yeah, I think that's so key because the main issue with any business, particularly with CPE brands, is that you need money for your business. Especially if you're selling them retail, there's two ways to get it. Through velocity, selling more product at a single location, or through door growth. And I see a lot of brands who are new, have a unique, innovative product, might have some education. Honestly, they struggle with velocity early on. and as a cure for that short term, they pitch their story and try and sell into more doors because I think if I just have a little bit more time, if I get those early POs, it gives me time to figure out the velocity piece.

7:38Tia Ellis:Otherwise, I would just run out of money now versus kind of delaying that into the future. And I see that getting a lot of companies in trouble. Have you kind of seen a similar thing with brands you've seen in the market? Yeah, totally. And even just to add one layer to that, it's not just struggling with the velocity, it's also struggling with the cash flow and the payment terms. So a lot of brands will go back to their co-packer, their manufacturing facility and say, Hey, you know, I want to negotiate with you. If you give me, and if I give you increased volume, I need a reduction on the cost of my goods.

8:09Like that's totally economics one-on-one, but then they have to commit to a certain amount. And if the retail partner that they're, they're working with doesn't end up putting in that extra PO, then they're stuck floating the cash. And that's how a lot of founders get themselves in hot water, especially when it comes to the cash management and inventory flow.

8:30Tia Ellis:Oh my goodness. That happens all the time. I think that's one of the trickiest things with this business, especially having so much inventory that expires in most cases. You know, I mean, it kind of makes me think that as branders or brands are thinking about getting their story out, there's different types of pitches and ways to tell their story. And you talk about kind of three pitches they need to master, customer, investor, and retailer. Can you walk us through each one and why they're so different? Yeah, yeah. So I, like you said, there are three main pitches that a typical product founder needs to master.

9:01So the first one is, of course, the customer. What does it taste like? Is this going to be healthy for me? What are the benefits? The customer wants to know those things and they will buy it and try it. Then there's the pitch to the investor. So let's say you get an opportunity and you end up needing cash for something, going and pitching to somebody that potentially wants to give you money in exchange for equity in your company. They, a lot of times, depending on their thesis, might potentially not even care about what the product is, the flavor profile, what the health benefits are. They just want to know if they're going to get their money back in, you know, whatever their terms are, five to seven years.

9:33And so you have to be able to pitch to them directly. When you pitch to a retail buyer, you have to remember that buyers are corporate employees. And so they, a lot of the times, don't even get to choose the category that they buy for. I actually knew, I knew a buyer that was over wine and spirits and she was nine years sober.

9:53Tia Ellis:I mean, it's true. Like it sounds so crazy, but it's true. And so we had a, we had a brand go in and pitch this meeting and the buyer refused to try their product. And so, you know, that's obviously worst case scenario and a, in a wild curve ball, but how do you pitch to somebody that might not like your product doesn't maybe even want to be there is tired has listened to, you know, 300 pitches in the last month, how do you communicate where they are going to listen? And so one of the things that we really try to teach our founders is to frame their pitch in a way that is going to be really well received to the buyer.

10:28And so if you can frame yourself as a brand that is going to perform well is going to sell through in their stores and is going to make them look good, right? Because as a, or when you're, when you're pitching, you've really got two things to sell on. Like you need to make sure that You are convincing them that you are a strong brand, but also that you are going to help them look good. And so when you can convince them and explain through data, through trends, through information that you are going to perform well, that's how founders win. And always making sure that you are offering them something instead of just going into the meeting and being kind of like a transactional supplier because that's how you separate yourself.

11:07They get those kind of pitches all day, every day, when you can really come in as somebody that wants to be a long term partner and make them look good so that they can, you know, potentially get that holiday bonus or, you know, that promotion. That's how you that's how you build real relationships. And people remember that.

11:23Tia Ellis:Let's go into that a little bit more, because I'd love to learn how buyer psychology really shapes what you say and what you don't say in those meetings in the pitch. Yeah, well, you know, that's really truly the curveball because you never know what kind of buyer you're going to walk into. You could get somebody that is a very seasoned professional that's been doing this for 30 years and doesn't want any of the fluff and just the facts. You could also get a personality buyer that wants to invest in and take risks on brands and more specifically the people that they believe are going to be gritty and hardworking founders.

11:56So it's important to be able to speak to both. And I actually train our founders that go through our program, Pitch to PO, on how to communicate to multiple buyers depending on how they show up. We actually, in one of our group exercises, we do a mock buyer call. And I have everybody put their name in a, it's like a cup, and I'll draw them. And whichever one they draw, I put hat on and, like, become this different persona. And so it's, like, it's the wildest thing. It's, like, a Zoom call. And then all of a sudden, like, you come in with like a sombrero and a, you know, it's fun for me, for sure.

12:34I'm serious. But it teaches the founders like you can't go in with any type of expectation. And it really requires them to think on their toes. Because truly, if you can get through that distracting of a Zoom call, then you can pitch and present to anybody.

12:49Tia Ellis:I think that's so key. I think a lot of founders really don't understand just how to think about those meetings. Like I went into a meeting with Mariano's before and then went in part of the Albertson stores and we were part of like our investor group. I think there were six other companies and we each had like a minute essentially to pitch our brand. I had this whole pitch deck created. We didn't have a screen. So I had it printed out. It's going to walk through and show the buyer and we get there and the buyer's just kind of talking. It's like, okay, what's your product? What's your product?

13:19Tia Ellis:Great. We'll take yours and yours and yours. Like I didn't touch the pitch deck, right? Like some people at one and they're trying to like, oh, wait, wait, I made this whole presentation. He's basically like, I don't want to hear it. And it's so hard to like, I know a couple of people after like, that was really weird. Like they didn't even ask to learn more about my product. It's because the buyer looked at the product beforehand. They made a decision and the meeting was more like a formality and some got in and some didn't. But like none of us were expecting that. Yeah. And I've heard, I've seen a lot of founders do that, but I've also seen the flip side of it where a buyer will take you, take the full meeting and have you sit down and not say one single word.

13:54Like you're presenting to basically a, like, it's like a brick wall. And that's the energy that you're receiving and you're feeding off of, but you still have to figure out a way to lighten the conversation and allow your passion to kind of show through. Because at the end of the day, you drop everything else. Buyers are humans and people buy from people that they like. And so when they believe in you and your brand and your mission and why you started it and the people that you're impacting the lives you're changing because of this thing that you've created, this product you've created. That's how you become memorable.

14:28And that's how you get the callback.

14:29Tia Ellis:So Tia, that actually brings up a good point. If there's a buyer who's just like not responsive, there's not asking questions, how do you change the direction of that conversation? That is such a loaded question. And it's a difficult one because it truly, it comes down to the founder and it comes down to the buyer. But one of the things that you can do in those meetings is pause and ask if they have any questions and really kind of open it up. And I say that your pitch should be kind of like in the background, the deck should be in the background and your conversation should be the most important part of the entire meeting.

15:06And so if all they're doing is staring at the slides and you're trying to interact with them and you're getting, I mean, nothing. Like it's, it's, it's hard. Pause and ask them questions. Like, what have you seen from brands that have done well in your category? Or what has been something that you recommend, or you've seen, or what's a brand that you're looking forward to? Like, what's something that's been changing in the industry? And it's like, just kind of opening up the conversation to get them to say something. And from there, you can kind of, you know, re-navigate back into wherever your pitch was.

15:39Tia Ellis:Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Other times I've even done things where I'm just asking like, hey, I'm curious what you saw about our product or my pitch that made you interested, right? To understand where they're coming from, why they even are in this meeting, or if they're like, yeah, I've already written this product off. We actually don't want it be nice and let you finish, but maybe it's already a no for this reason. And then maybe it's valid and there's nothing you can do, maybe you can change the trajectory of that conversation if you bring up a piece of data that like, actually, we're seeing this incredible velocity, but I hadn't talked about that yet while a lot is in this category.

16:11Tia Ellis:Like, oh, okay, that's actually interesting to me versus the other stuff for like, why you start the company, like there's less might be less so for a certain buyer type. Well, and I love what you kind of just said there, like one of the things that we if you feel like the meeting's not going well, or you end the meeting, and it just you really have no idea what to make of it. I love to encourage people to ask the buyer for feedback. And this seems like one of those, you know, basic things that just is kind of like uncomfortable to do. But when somebody comes in and, you know, pitching is hard, like it takes a lot of courage and it's, it's very nerve wracking.

16:46It's like, you know, being interviewed essentially with, you know, a presentation. And so when you can ask somebody, Hey, um, do you have any feedback for me? Or, you know, I, I totally appreciate your time. Thank you for allowing us to be here and the opportunity to have the conversation. I'm curious if you have any bits of feedback or things that I could be working on so that next time when we talk, I am more and more in line with your expectations.

17:11Tia Ellis:Yeah, I think that's so key in asking those things. I mean, like around that, how do you even recommend structuring both the content for that pitch and the timing for the meetings? So the content is we have a template that we really like to use. I suggest to founders to keep it under 10 slides. Typically buyer meetings are about 20 minutes or so. And so let's just say you've got three to four minutes of small talk, conversation, setup, technical difficulties, whatever. Then you have 10 minutes of the pitch and then anywhere between five and whatever else is left over of question, answer, follow up, next steps, encouraging feedback, all of those kinds of things and building the relationships.

17:53The goal is that founders can pitch in less than 10 minutes, which essentially, if you've got about 10 slides, and that includes the title and the end slide, you should be able to get through a slide in less than 60 seconds. You also kind of have to be prepared. And the reason that we want to leave a little extra time at the beginning and at the end is if you get a talkative buyer and they decide to cut you off during maybe the pricing slide, because everybody likes to talk during that slide, how do you build in a little extra time and then make sure that you're wrapping it back around to make sure that you're closing it off and continue to talk about your operations and your logistical capacity and your, you know, efficiency.

18:31Tia Ellis:Yeah, I think that's huge. One thing I've also found is, right, like when you're running short of time asking the buyer, like, what do you care most about? And then talking about the slides, right, that they actually care most about or want to hear. Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's a really good point. As you're rounding out the conversations, then what are the best questions to ask during the buyer meeting while you have them to show both the you're interested in them and that you want to actually move the relationship forward? I love and this is this is a simple question, because a lot of times, I would say 90 % of the time you pitch to somebody you, you get ghosted at some point or another.

19:07And whether that's, you know, within the first week or three months down the road, or you know, it doesn't work out the next year. One of the questions that I really love to make sure that people ask in a buyer meeting is what does your timeline look like to make a decision? When are you going to review this category before the review? So like sometimes buyers will visit it, revisit it at the three month period, six month period. But then also sometimes their review cycles are on a rolling basis. So I'd love to ask the question of when is the next time you're gonna be looking at this? Because based off that information, you actually get the perfect timeline on when you should be following up.

19:44if you do get ghosted. And of course we hope that you don't, but if that does happen, what is the contingency plan to make sure that you're not somebody that never hears back from them and you're able to provide additional information to them? Like, this is another thing I love to recommend is always, always provide something of value when you're communicating with them. So you never wanna be that brand or that potential supplier that is constantly asking for something like, hey, can I get a meeting with you? Hey, can I get on your review? Hey, can you look at me? yada yada hey i just wanted to share we just got featured in blank magazine or hey we've just you know we've onboarded with a new warehouse and we've got additional distribution and capability now or we're rolling out with two new flavors and in different skews and we're so excited about this i'd love to send you some samples like you're not asking for anything but you're just sharing very positive uplifting highlights to them so that when again you're following if you're in that weird space of like there's no communication again you are working on that professional relationship and not being, you know, a bother.