283. How This Fintech VC at a $1Bn+ AUM Firm With a 30+ Angel Portfolio Invests w/ Deepali Nangia | Speedinvest

21:09Amardeep Parmar:And obviously you mentioned AI there as well, right? So how is that changing the way that you're looking at investments? Because things are moving so much faster. How do you know this is something which has legs and it can keep going? Yeah, of course, the European team has done a lot of AI deals, right? And verticalized AI, whether it's compliance, whether it's healthcare, whether it's construction, logistics, all of these different sectors and how AI fits in there. We were talking about this in the fintech team yesterday, where it comes to agentic payments. And we were talking about, you know, would somebody be okay with delegated authority on the payment side?

21:43Because there are many companies building for agentic payments, right? But then who takes on the liability if something goes wrong? Is it the bank? Is it the software provider? and maybe it comes easier earlier on the B2B side than on the B2C side. But we think about these themes and we think about, of course, there's AI in operations. That's the easiest form, right? Customer service, et cetera. But AI, next-gen wealth management company 2.0 because AI suddenly enables you to service a lot many more customers at a cheaper cost. And therefore, you can take lower account values, you know, from your current customers, opens up a whole new base.

22:21You can service customers that you were not servicing before, right? So there will be, we are obviously trying to find companies that might be doing this, looking at, like I said, agentic payments, looking at all different places and seeing where we can find stuff. On the emerging market side, we are seeing companies that are using our own portfolio companies, using AI for, you know, credit decisioning, right? Using some of the unstructured data, making it structured. If you convert structure to daily, then an L &M can sit upon it and make better credit decisioning. Or you can have personalized payment plans.

22:55Somebody cannot pay at a certain time. Can AI give me based on their overpayment history and their income, et cetera? What should this payment plan look like? On the debt collection side, can AI spend 80 % or the easier cases, the AI can call and collect money? So we're seeing all different use cases. Yeah, that's on the FinTech side. But overall, the European team has done many airbets.

23:20Amardeep Parmar:How do you think about with 2026 as well? And the trends and where you think the market's going to head? Within what, sorry? Within 2026. Oh, within 2026. Interesting. I mean, in Europe, you're obviously going to see robotics and defense, which are big themes, crypto. We just did a crypto neobank, which is very interesting, called block. So you're going to continue to see some of those themes, sovereignty, European sovereignty, just like American sovereignty, right? Whether it's space, et cetera. So you will see those themes. And on the emerging market side, I'm also seeing a lot of stable coins, you know, like Nala.

23:57I think the business is interesting. What Benji is building. I've seen a lot in stable coins. I've seen credit against stable coins because it's not instant settlement, et cetera. So yeah, and in Africa, Middle East, we continue to see embedded finance, focus on SME, which AI, to be honest, will help some of this. So those are some of the themes I'm looking out for.

24:18Amardeep Parmar:Is there any gaps as well you're saying? So you're meant about SME funding and things like that. Where are gaps? You're kind of looking for companies that are in your sectors. I mean, obviously, SMEs are the long tail in Africa, for example, or India, right? It's always the long tail that's interesting, but the long tail is the hardest to onboard, the hardest to service because it's low value. So if you look at health insurance in Africa, the average order, you know, the payments are so low because people cannot afford health insurance. It's not top of the pyramid. So then you look to find other ways to service them better, to be able to pick them up.

24:53Or sometimes it's cultural, right? So there are SMEs and long tail is always the more interesting bit in emerging markets, but very hard to service. Of course, I'm looking there. Or farmers, you know, Africa's 70 % is farmers and how can you get more money to the smallholder farmers are there is there credit options uh for seeds for can you you know give them credit against what they're going to produce their produce or uh can you do supply chain credit so lots of but i do think the long tail is quite interesting in emerging markets

25:20Amardeep Parmar:and like let's say people are building the emerging markets now and like they happen to come across this podcast and listen to this what are you looking for in that so what do they need to show you to try and get you excited yeah i mean obviously on the early stage side it's uh in just emerging markets so europe the team is uh it's team team team right it's really founder market fate why are they the best team to build this um you know how can they make this a really big business those are the answers and if the later stage businesses we will obviously go through like we look at team and traction right so um i can't say that's one thing i'm looking for But again, it's like it's a combination of it all.

26:00But happy to talk to anyone who's building in fintech or fintech enabled in the emerging markets. That's what we invest in. One thing with the team as well, I think, because we help a lot of founders, right?

26:09Amardeep Parmar:But I think a lot of people misunderstand what a strong team is. And someone might, for example, put like ex-Google. There's like about a million people work at Google over the last decade, right? It doesn't necessarily mean much. So like when people are thinking about how to explain their team, it's more than just logos right how can they frame it a way that really like stands out to you what what do you see in some of your investments for example which really made that team stand out i mean of course we love like people who built right so ex-entrepreneurs but also product people tech people you know these are skills that are hard to find a good product person who's spending time with the customers to really understand what to build, what are the features that people want.

26:55So I think some of it is really more, we of course would do our diligence, right? But you put a logo on there and we will dig beneath the logo and we will call people and we'll discuss. But people who essentially build things in large companies are very interesting. We also look at deep domain knowledge why is this person if you're looking at for example a health company right or why is this person what bio knowledge are they bringing to make them best at you know building what they want to build of course we also look at coachability and leadership and motivational and sales capability because ceo's job a lot of the times just like ours is really selling that they're selling to the founders they're in this case selling to lps they're selling to their employees they're selling to customers so really how and to investors so how well can they sell so we try and gauge all of that and i can't say that it's just like falling in love it really is it's like we really want to invest in at the end of the day it's like a connection that you have with someone it's human right it's not ai one thing you see now as well as obviously people from the

28:06Amardeep Parmar:uk or from the us who are now trying to build in emerging markets as well how are you like judging them you're seeing some quite good people say maybe uk-based but have kenyan heritage who are now going to build out in kenya how are you finding that is that are those people seem to do well they have an advantage over locals or is it kind of neck and neck yeah very interesting question because you know india saw this right when i left india when i was 18 it was like a brain drain from india to the u.s uh i was probably one of the few women who left but there were many guys who left and they went to study there or work there and then they stayed on.

28:42And to be honest, then we saw reverse brain drain and we saw many of the Indian diaspora that had worked at big corporate or had made some money and said, I want to go back to my own country and build. And they saw like, you know, that really helped India. And I think we, of course, have invested in many founders like this, just so you know, in Africa, we have many founders who are of African heritage, lived in the US, studied in the US, lived in the UK and have built. And I see this very often, especially with the UK, there's a very strong link between Africa and the UK. So see this very often and they want to go back and change the lives of their own people, right?

29:18And it's this very mission-driven approach and I really like that and I love that and we love backing diaspora founders because they bring the best of both worlds. They understand the Western mindset and they come from a local, they understand the local region.

29:34Amardeep Parmar:It's one of the interesting things we found in this podcast, right? So we interview people of Asian heritage but so many people weren't necessarily born here so a lot of the entrepreneurs like people obviously have a certain standards come on the podcast right so many of these people weren't born here whereas many people may be born here because they're used to the system they're familiar with it that's an interesting trend we've kind of picked up about actually there's a lot fewer uk born and raised people building here from a generation heritage whereas a lot of people come from maybe university first job yeah because it's the risk-taking right yeah it's the risk-taking It is the hustle, right?

30:06You know that you want to do really well because you've left home and everything that comes with it because it's not just a, it's not a financial choice. It's like a emotional choice that you make, right? You leave your parents, you leave your family and you come somewhere and there's a lot more to prove and there's a survival, right? Unless you come from a privileged background, most people come here and they're like, I want to build and I want to build something big. And so I'm not surprised by that at all. And I don't think it's just in the UK. I'm sure it's the same in the US.

30:36Amardeep Parmar:And you say you live in the US as well, as well as the UK. How has that moved for you? Because obviously, you said you're having to come out and adapt to a new environment. And obviously, you built the career you have afterwards. Yeah, it's funny because you say that because I have this conversation at home all the time. And I always tell my husband grew up in Africa and he moved to the US. And I always tell my children that you have no idea how easy you have it, right? because I was graduated from university and went to University of Rochester where local companies came to recruit but it wasn't like a lot of like you know I wanted to work at investment bank and I literally went to the alumni office the career office and I said give me the alumni database and I had this at that point it was not even like digital right and they said here and I've probably emailed every single person from that database that worked in investment banking in New York and not just once.

31:34I probably emailed them 10 times, called them, emailed them, spoke to their assistants, managed to get two interviews and then out of those two interviews, I got two jobs and then I could decide, you know, this is the one I want to take. And I think from that point on, and not just that, the journey probably started when I was 18 because I could work in the US and I was studying, but I was working 20 hours a week when I was not studying, right? Because I wanted to be able to pay for my expenses. And I think that hustle starts really young. And I don't think that hustle ever goes away, right? And I'm so happy to see so many Indians.

32:13And I'm saying this in the best way possible that I'm seeing, you know, every successful startup in Silicon Valley probably has an Indian involved in some way or the other, right? And it's really wonderful to see that because I grew up in India where there was no electricity. There was no like very few phone lines. So it was in there was one TV channel, which was Doodarshan when I was growing up. Right. So having seen the India story play out and having seen so many Indians in Silicon Valley. And to be honest, in the last 10 years, so many Indians in London, because I've been in London for a long time.

32:52I've never seen this, seen so many Indian building also in venture funds, you know, senior people starting their own funds, starting their solo GP, starting big funds. I mean, it's really heartwarming for me. I just love it.

33:06Amardeep Parmar:It's interesting about young people as well, because I think it's such a big challenge now, right? People at universities or schools, because we work with a lot of them. And often they ask, what advice would you give us? And because the markets are shifting so much, I don't know. it's hard for me to say what you should do but let's say like when your children are at kind of university age and things like that would you kind of encourage them to almost do the what you did of like work hard at the same time and well I've been there and I tell my daughter this she's in university and I'm like did you get a job like I don't want it's great because I think getting grades is getting good grades should be a part of the job in my view if you're a student you should be working hard enough right and and getting there but I think what are you doing beyond just working because I think the world is very competitive no matter what right and I tell her all the time I tell my son who's now 16 he's doing his mocks right now and he's built a trading model that he's very interested in and he looks at these charts all day long and I'm like I know you're sitting inside this box and doing stuff but you need to be out there talking to people you know who are the best traders read books on these people listen to podcasts talk to people because I think that's where you really learn I don't think I think the human connection is very important or pick up the phone and say I want to work for you you know he wrote his first cover letter and his like email or whatever and it was very cute it was almost like he said I want to work for you guys because I on your website it says you are good at risk management and I myself as a young trader want to understand how to manage my risks without cutting gains and you know it came from the heart and I was like this might sound naive to someone reading it but I think this is what people need to do really need to think about who can and do it like send I still send cold emails and I still do that all the time just so you know and I think there is no there is no shame and there is no shame and also asking again and again.

35:10Amardeep Parmar:So I guess we both have the same thing of people asking us lots of questions, right? So we might regret saying that now. But it comes back at us and be like, no. They're like, but you say on the podcast, I keep asking. That's why I always say, I never tell anybody to email me. So I'm like, it's going to bite back. And with that as well, I think one of the things I think a lot of people underestimate is that value of side projects. And it's like, it doesn't have to be the next big thing. But just the fact that you tried to build something and even like everybody knows that the first company often isn't the one that's successful, right?

35:42Amardeep Parmar:So just get your first reps out of the way. Build something, even if it fails. Don't like put your entire life savings into it. But if you build something and it fails, the process of trying to make it work, you learn so much. And I think for so many people, especially they've come from good grades, they've come from that. It's the fear of failing. Yeah. It's the fear of failing. And to be honest, the fear of failing, the fear of not knowing what's going to happen, and all of these things hold us back, right? But this is what makes us who we are. You know, with every rejection, you learn something from that story and I think you take away something and hopefully it's more resilience and wanting to do it again.

36:20Amardeep Parmar:Yeah, I think it's so interesting now where, and it's also the COVID generation of kids where they didn't have that same, like, access to people and things too. And it's, as everything gets with AI and stuff like this, like you said with your sons, like if people can actually build relationships that's what's going to be protecting because you said when you meet founders and you like them it's like can you have that magnetism right can people chat to you feel the passion feel the fire in you and if you can't do that it's going to be hard for you right 100 and really your network is your net worth even more and more now uh with ai like i feel like and what i mean is real relationships not like transactional relationships right uh real relationships because i really think they can be very helpful how did you build your network when you moved to the uk because obviously yeah i mean obviously i also spent i think my father i learned it from my dad who was very non-transactional in his approach to relationship building and he always said to me you know see have the approach about how how you can help someone rather than uh they you know what you can get from them that's the approach that you should have right so um I think that's the approach that I used to take uh when building a relationship and I think I also don't really add people on LinkedIn unless I don't know that I mean I might do outbound and reach out to them and say I'd love to talk to you but if somebody sends me something without like a request there's zero likelihood that I will add that many times if they write me a message then I'll reply and then do a call with them and then add them right And I think it just takes a longer process, but at least I know that my network is then people I actually know, right?

38:00Then people, just random people that I might never be able to work with, et cetera. So that's the approach I took. And that's it. I'm also trying to help as much as possible. We're all really busy people, right? But I think that every good deed comes back in some form or the other.

38:15Amardeep Parmar:And this way I can probably take advice from you here. So with how much we've explained in the last two years, I have this problem now. How do I manage, maintain the relationship, right? because I get to sit across here from like so many people who've done interesting things. They've got great stories. They're all really interesting. But I can't be best friends with all of them. And it's how do you try and maintain that? And like, I think the most important thing I've realized is too, is that the people who are the right people, they understand that you're busy. It's not a personal thing. But you also got a much bigger network over different years.

38:45It's very high. It's very hard. I also don't try and keep up with everybody, right? Of course, there's your inner circle. whether it's in your circle of VCs who you talk to in a circle of friends that you talk to of course helping somebody you don't need to you know they don't need to be part of your inner circle for you to help them right but even if I can't vouch for somebody I'll always pass something on I'll always say okay this is from somebody who I know I don't know them very well but I just want to pass this on because you're recruiting I think that is a small thing I can do without too much sweat or too much work right but I don't think I also have five really good friends I don't have many you know what I mean and I see the same people I'm one of those like very boring routine people I like seeing the same people I like going to the same places I like doing the same things so I think but I'm also of that age now where it's really hard to keep up with everybody right so So I wish I had better advice for you.

39:45But I think it's really a random story. But two days ago, I saw a meeting show up in my diary from a lady called Sarah. And I don't remember when I met her last. But she clearly had my calendar link and she put a diary meeting in. So I got on the call and she said, hey, I met you two years ago in Paris at WVCE. And I was like, thank you, Sarah. Great to reconnect. I did not remember her. And she goes, I'm raising a new fund. And I saw the Speed Invest Fund Fund announcement. And I said, yeah, that was an old one. We obviously haven't launched the new Fund Fund. And, you know, we do fund sizes.

40:23And her fund size was too large. And she said, I completely understand. So silly of me not to realize that, you know, you guys obviously invest also earlier stage. So our fund would not. I said, no problem. You know, lovely to reconnect. And she said something about Davos. And I said, oh, yeah, I'm invited to speak. But I just started checking if I can get a room. I obviously cannot probably get a room. And she said, I'll give you, I'll carry an air mattress for you from Munich. And she's bringing an air mattress for me from Munich in a flat that she's staying at with seven other women. And I said, are you sure?

40:56I mean, I've only met her once before in my life. And she was like, absolutely. And not just that, she's introduced me to the whole Davos ecosystem. She sent me events. She sent me these are the other panels you can be on. So I'm just saying that it's a small thing, but you can never underestimate the power of your network and I never really expected this. So here I am going on a plane where most people can't find a spot to stay the week before I have a bed.

41:20Amardeep Parmar:So just before there's a quick fire question because I'm worried about the time. So with the report we did, right, we got 0.2 % of funding last year meant all female founder teams or all Asian heritage female founder teams. And obviously it's something which you're really passionate about. And I know, I think we're both invested in White Hangry, for example. and how you've seen the market change do you think there is positive move being made or do you think what needs to be done or how can people listening get involved more I mean obviously businesses need to be of a not every business is venture fundable right or should be venture funded right many of them are angel and to be honest pension be the one you know the one that went public only ever raised angel funding they never raised from venture fund I think she raised 30 million from angels over time and then went public right so I don't think every I don't think venture is the answer to everything the businesses that get grants the businesses it's a whole spectrum of of who should be the right investor here and I think things are changing I mean I overall I think from when I started investing first it was very hard for women to raise and I think change always comes slowly and I think with the right businesses people do get funded.

42:32Amardeep Parmar:So quick fire questions now so we can make sure that you're all. So who are three Asians in Britain you think are doing incredible work right now and you'd love to shout them out? I mean, one I would definitely say is Benji and Nala. I love what he's building. I love that he's a founder, that he, you know, spends time on products, spends time with people and he also does a lot of like community stuff, right? So I think he brings people together and his plan and there are things about that that are very humane that I really like. So I would definitely say Benji I would say Amira she helps us a lot at Alma and it's not she is one of those non-transactional people who thinks about you and says how can I help you and I love that about her and she has this spark you know it's that young spark energy I really like Nikita had included you know I think no matter what you need more inclusivity in the VC ecosystem I love that Kanishka who's our new AI minister, you know, he used to be a clock tower.

43:32I think what he's trying to do for AI and tech, these are some of the people I think, of course, my list is quite long.

43:38Amardeep Parmar:And then is there any way that people listening today could help you? I mean, when I first started investing, when I first started investment banking, there was very, very few women, very, very few Indians, very, very few minority, ethnic minorities. So I think what is I think we really need to think beyond I think we need to build inclusive ecosystems right so because talent again is equally and more distributed but opportunities not and I think when we're looking for candidates for our companies for our boards for our investments I think we need to think beyond just you know what you see representative because what is representative has also now changed.

44:20The populations have changed.

44:23Amardeep Parmar:And if people want to follow you or learn more about what you're up to, where's it going? LinkedIn. I don't think I'm adding much on Twitter or anything about LinkedIn. And Speedinvest, of course, we have a website. We have a blog. We have a tight form that you can apply directly. Founders can apply. And so Alma as well. We have a website and form. So thanks so much for coming on. Any final words? for having me. You know, just really excited to be here and love what you're doing. So thank you for having me.