Convicted U.S. spy runs for office in Israel; an anti-smoking fight in China

0:00NPR Correspondent:Dr. Eric Topol says health influencers make big claims about longevity, but he's offering us a reality check.

0:07Jonathan Pollard:We can accept that we're going to age, but we don't have to accept heart disease and cancer or neurodegenerative diseases.

0:15NPR Correspondent:Straight talk about how to grow old and stay healthy. That's on the TED Radio Hour podcast. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Today on State of the World, a convicted U.S. spy runs for office in Israel. and fighting smoking in China. You're listening to State of the World from NPR. We bring you the day's most vital international stories, up close where they're happening. I'm Greg Dixon. In a few minutes, women in China trying to stop men from smoking. First, Jonathan Pollard worked as an analyst for the U.S. Navy in the 1980s. He spent 30 years behind bars in the U.S., convicted of spying for Israel.

0:59NPR Correspondent:He lives in Israel now, and he's announced a run for parliament there. NPR correspondent Daniel Estrin spoke to Pollard. The Jonathan Pollard affair was an historic blow to U.S.-Israel relations. Pollard, a Jewish American, used his position as a naval intelligence analyst to spy for Israel. This is a clip from 60 Minutes in the late 1980s. Pollard sold suitcases filled with top-secret documents to Israel, including reconnaissance photos of Israel's enemies. He said he had felt a strong connection to Israel because his mother lost relatives in the Holocaust. And he thought the U.S. was withholding intelligence that was crucial for Israel's security.

1:41NPR Correspondent:After 30 years behind bars, Pollard received parole in 2015. He was required to stay in the U.S. for five more years. He had been granted Israeli citizenship and moved to Israel as soon as he could in 2020. He spoke with NPR from his home in Jerusalem. His feelings about Israel are complex. Back in the 80s, when he was exposed as a spy, he sought refuge in the Israeli embassy, but was denied asylum and was arrested by the FBI. I also had assumed that my abandonment and betrayal by the Israeli government was the exception to the rule. When October 7th happened, I suddenly realized that the entire country had been betrayed and abandoned.

2:29NPR Correspondent:In Jerusalem, he helped dig graves for fallen Israeli soldiers after the Hamas attack in 2023. He points a finger at Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He's never taken any share of the blame for the disaster that fell upon us on that day. And he's made a series of horrific blunders following October 7th, where we have not decisively defeated any of our enemies. Pollard is planning a run for the Israeli parliament as a member of a small new right-wing party. He wants to unify the Israeli right in this year's elections. He calls for the, quote, involuntary transfer of Palestinians out of Gaza, repopulating it with Israelis.

3:17NPR Correspondent:The decision of Jonathan Pollard to join Israeli politics is an amusing anecdote. Yossi Melman co-authored Spies Against Armageddon, a history of Israeli intelligence services. It won't have any impact on Israeli elections, on Israeli politics. If he decides to run to be the next pop, his chances are similar. When Pollard moved to Israel in 2020, he defended his espionage, saying he had no choice. Now he tells NPR he is remorseful and wishes he'd found a, quote, legal way to act on his concerns for Israel's security. I made a mistake. I didn't think about the consequence. And 30 years later, here I am trying to leave a better legacy.

4:08NPR Correspondent:Attitudes have changed in 30 years. When Pollard was sentenced for espionage in the late 80s, the U.S. Defense Secretary said he had substantially harmed the U.S. But last year, Pollard was given an audience at the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem with President Trump's ambassador, Mike Huckabee. Daniel Estrin, NPR News, Tel Aviv.

4:38NPR Correspondent:Cigarette smoking is ingrained in Chinese culture, mostly among men. NPR's Stevens Keep is in China, and he talked to some women in the city of Shenzhen

4:48Jonathan Pollard:who are trying to change the smoking culture. This is a hard-smoking nation. You see men with cigarettes everywhere. This spring, a woman confronted a man smoking at a bus stop in the city of Shenzhen. Police intervened, and the incident spread on social media. The woman in that incident did not talk with us, but we learned that other women in Shenzhen regularly confront smokers in crowded areas. And we asked two of them to meet us at Starbucks.

5:15NPR Correspondent:Hi, nice to meet you.

5:18Jonathan Pollard:You saw my picture. That's great. Okay, that's good.

5:20NPR Correspondent:Yeah, to ensure that you are real and here, of course.

5:24Jonathan Pollard:Lula Wong describes herself as an extrovert and her friend Hilda Wong as an introvert. You're more of a silent person, but it seems to me you were not silent. Oh, wow, that's great. On social media. Hilda has been scolding smokers and posting video of the encounters. People in China smoke far more than in the U.S. One study finds close to half of Chinese men are smokers. Very few women are, and it may not be coincidence that the people complaining are women. I have some video on my account I can show you. Hilda played a widely shared clip of herself lecturing a man who has a cigarette in hand.

6:04Jonathan Pollard:He says she has no right to put him on video. She tells the man he's an embarrassment and he walks away. Hilda, the introvert, says she gets so upset about smoking, her personality has changed. Her friend Lulo says she has asked this question of men.

6:21NPR Correspondent:Is your cigarette a good thing for you to suck?

6:26Jonathan Pollard:The recent smoking incident that involved Shenzhen police was even more dramatic. A woman confronted a smoker at a bus stop. He didn't put it out. She poured juice on his cigarette. He threw the empty cup at her. Police took both into custody. In social media posts later taken down, the woman claimed the police strip-searched her. The state-owned China Daily said a female officer gave her, quote, a safety check in accordance with regulations. China Daily adds the man was breaking Shenzhen's rules for bus stops. He was fined, and the issue was resolved. The two Shenzhen women we met say the larger issue is not resolved.

7:03NPR Correspondent:I hate bros. Sorry.

7:06Jonathan Pollard:What is a bro to you?

7:08NPR Correspondent:Lower IQ and less civilized. Don't respect others.

7:14Jonathan Pollard:Is that all men or just some of them?

7:17NPR Correspondent:Yes, I'm sorry, but yes.

7:19Jonathan Pollard:It's all. Lulo suggested she didn't mean this literally, saying humor is the art of being offensive. But it was clear we needed a response from men, so we approached every smoker we found up and down the block. Sit down, sit down. Sit down, said Tan Tia Shen, who was sitting on a bench, where he kept offering me a cigarette. Thanks for offering, but no, I don't smoke. He works in a kitchen when he's not smoking. I love smoking. He's been doing it since his time as an army pilot 40 years ago. Have you ever had any health effects?

7:54NPR Correspondent:It's refreshing.

7:56Jonathan Pollard:He adds that he has a cough, but he's fine. He says men traditionally had the pleasure of smoking because men were in charge. But when I told him about the women confronting men on social media, he surprised me.

8:11NPR Correspondent:It's good. Not smoking is good for your health.

8:14Jonathan Pollard:Of the five male smokers on that block who agreed to talk with us, not one seemed upset by the activists. Though some men have seemed upset when scolded on video, men on this block said they wouldn't mind a lecture if it helped them get over their addiction. That's NPR's Steve Inskeep.

8:36NPR Correspondent:That's the State of the World from NPR. Thanks for listening.