How is Cuba feeling about the United States?

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0:33You're listening to State of the World from NPR. We bring you the day's most vital international stories, up close where they're happening. It's Tuesday, April 28th. I'm Greg Dixon. The relationship between the United States and Cuba hasn't been this tense for decades. Even as the U.S. is engaged in high-level negotiations in Havana, it is threatening Cuba with military action. And that threat's backed up by the recent action the U.S. took in nearby Venezuela, removing the country's dictator. NPR's Eder Peralta covers Cuba from Mexico City. He recently spoke to a top Cuban diplomat. And Eder joins me now.

1:09Hey, Eder. Hey, Greg. So you spoke to Johanna Tablada de la Torre. She's the deputy chief of mission in Mexico. She has decades of experience negotiating with the U.S. And before we hear some of your interview, please just set the scene for us. What's Cuba like now? And what is the state of negotiations with the US? I mean, it's as you said, right? It's probably the most complex time for these relations since the missile crisis in the 60s. I was there a few months ago, and it was already critical. Cubans were living through days-long blackouts, food, medicine, fuel, everything you can think of.

1:45I mean, eggs. It's scarce, right? And what I saw was people just trying to get by. And we're seeing numbers that tell us U.S. sanctions are taking a toll. A new study that was just put out this week found that Cuba's infant mortality rate, which used to be among the best on this continent, has seen a nearly 150 % increase. And now, since the beginning of the year, the U.S. has put in place a de facto oil blockade. So we're at this standoff. The U.S. is demanding sweeping changes from the Cuban government. And the Cuban government is saying, we're going to resist. We're going to resist this siege as we've done for seven decades.

2:23OK, let's listen to your interview with Ambassador Tablada de la Torre. And she's addressing the things that you just said, the sweeping demands that the U.S. has for the Cuban government. When the United States says that what they want is Cuba to open their economy, they are not telling the truth. When the United States says that they care about human rights in Cuba, they are lying blatantly, blatantly, because the United States is the only responsible for the deterioration of the situation, for the sad situation that we're living in hospitals. I've seen videos, and probably you too, we built one of the best systems of care of the world.

3:02So when we have to see the neonatologists using their hands to keep a baby alive because there's no electricity, nobody will say because socialism doesn't work. I was in Cuba at the end of last year, and I think no Cuban wants the United States to meddle. But they also do blame your government for mismanagement, for corruption. they're angry and they want to change. And I feel like every time that I hear a Cuban official talk and they blame the United States for everything, I never hear any self-reflection that it's been 70 years. You are not hearing enough of our discussions in Cuba, domestic discussion.

3:50Every time I see discussions of the Council of Minister of Cuba, I see a president talking about our old insufficiency, which is not fair, is in a moment of maximum pressure to blame the victim. If we are a family and a big guy is outdoor closing our oxygen, cutting off the water pumpers, cutting off the electricity, I don't think this is the moment to say, could you do it better? But Cuba has now entered negotiations with the United States. Can you tell us what the status of those negotiations are? I wish I could tell you because I've participated in other talks to U.S., not this time. But every time the U.S.

4:33and Cuba sit with good faith professionally to talk about any issue, good things have come out of those conversations. When the president of Cuba over and over again, like it had happened in the last weeks, he said, we don't want war. We are a country of peace. We consider there is viable to reach agreements with the United States and work in issues of common concerns. At the same time, we also draw a line. We are not ready to sell out 200 years of commitment to Cuban independence and sovereignty. We are not ready to put on a table of negotiation who is the president of Cuba, which economic system Cuba will have, which is the political system, which institution in Cuba should exist and which are not.

5:25Those kind of things are decisions that rightfully belong to the Cuban people to take. I do not see a diplomatic solution to this because the United States, for example, has said they want an economic opening and they want a multi-party system in Cuba. And you just said that's off the table, especially after Iran, after what happened in Venezuela. A military intervention, an American military intervention seems very much on the table. It doesn't seem far-fetched. Is Cuba ready? If they take the responsible, inhuman, unjustified decision to attack on a small nation that has not a single decision that make any harm to any Americans or Cuban Americans, we are ready.

6:13We are ready for them. In Venezuela, 32 of Cuba's security forces were killed. And they didn't manage to stop the Americans from taking Nicolás Maduro. They were not troops. They were bodyguards. They were security agents. Well, yes, but they were bodyguards. It's not the same troops that bodyguards. That's someone that is doing personal security to a person. They die with honor. And I think that they pay a service not just to the tax that they have at that moment, but also to the whole Latin America, because they prove what the Cubans are ready to do when our country is invaded. So if they did that for Venezuela, imagine what we will be ready to do for our beloved Cuba.

6:59That was NPR's Eder Peralta speaking with Cuba's deputy chief of mission in Mexico. So, Eder, I'm hearing a lot of anger there at the state of Cuba now, which she blames on the U.S. I'm also hearing a lot of defiance from her. Yeah, you know, I've spoken to Ambassador Tablada de la Torre before, and she's always fiery. But I was surprised by the defiance. Since Trump came into office, Cuban officials, they've been very measured, always saying we're going to talk, we want peace. But Tablada de la Torre wasn't just saying we're going to resist. She was also saying that any U.S. military attack will be costly for the U.S.

7:36And it kind of left me wondering that if now that the U.S. is stuck in this war with Iran, if the Cubans are feeling more empowered. And maybe that's why we're getting this more muscular messaging from them. So you're in Mexico. You were talking to a top Cuban diplomat in Mexico. Now that Venezuela is in a leadership transition caused by the U.S., the relationship with Mexico is more important to Cuba than ever. But Mexico is also getting pressure from the United States when it comes to Cuba. So how's Mexico managing this? How are they walking that line? You know, they had been also super cautious.

8:17And after the Venezuelan oil was taken off the table by the leadership changes in Venezuela, Mexico became Cuba's most important provider of oil. But then the U.S. came after Mexico, told it to stop sending oil, and they stopped sending oil. But then last week, President Claudia Sheinbaum went to a meeting of progressive Latin American governments in Spain, and something changed. She asked the United States publicly not to take any military action against Cuba. And, you know, is this going to stop any kind of eventuality? Who knows? But this is significant because Mexico is not only important to Cuba, but it's also important to the United States.

9:01Mexico is the U.S.'s largest trading partner. And it is now asking the Trump administration to put the brakes on any military action in Cuba. Ader, thanks for your reporting. Thank you, Greg. It's NPR's Ader Peralta.

9:25And that's The State of the World from NPR. Thanks for listening.