#294: Our Boldest Stock Buys for 2026

0:00Emmet:And I am a shareholder. It is hyper risky, but I think it has a 10x potential.

0:11Emmet:Hey Emmet, how are we getting on? Howdy Mike, how are you doing in South of France? I'm good. No, I should be in a better mood, but I've been having some technical difficulties. Unfortunately, you're too aware of right before recording this. So if I sound like, you know, Rob Brydon's small man in a box on audio today, I apologize. It'll be a very temporary issue. I hope it isn't, but we'll see. Well, the work from home generation, which we're all part of now in some way or another, has learned that it's an IT project. Everybody is their own chief information officer. In the old days in big corporate world, if you went into a meeting room and the overhead projector didn't work, there was a person you could ring.

0:51Emmet:now it's like there's nobody you're alone you're every woman and man is an island you got to figure it out yourself so uh you're your own cto sorry to hear about that mike yeah i think i might sack myself to be honest i don't have i don't have the abilities for this role but we've got a good episode today so you actually teased it on twitter so i let you say i did i did i did we've decided it on four questions that we're going to answer um will we do a spoiler right now or just plow plow through them as we find them what's the right yeah yeah so i sent this over to you at the start of the week i thought it'd be a good exercise so we're going like for we'll go a game of tennis essentially so it's four stocks in that fit into certain categories um so for the well no we'll give you all four we'll give you all four so the first was a stock worth less than a billion dollars market cap and the second was just a european stock we talked about european stocks enough but again you know so much of wall street obviously but stock market coverage in general is so focused on the us there are these great european businesses that probably don't get covered enough um and then the third one was a stock down more than 30 from all-time highs uh it's fairly obvious it's a great place it's a place where i usually go uh fishing the first stock ideas and then the last one was just probably the most boring out of the lot of them but a stock from the magnificent seven so can i make a proposal that the end of each pitch because we're grown-ups and we've a mature mind we have to pick which of the two pitches we prefer we have to vote for which one so it's almost like we're judging ourselves from a helicopter uh so i'm going to pitch a stock worth less than a bill you are let's both pick from i don't know what you're going to say by the away so are which stocks you're going to pitch uh so let's see how that goes yeah no it's a good exercise um okay let's see who's better at finding them out i suppose finding the other quality stocks oh squeaky bum time okay i'm nervous so what's the story we kick off with a stock worth less than a billion in market cap at the moment yeah yeah so i'll start with the micro cap which is a company called Relais Group.

3:00That's spelled R-E-L-A-I-S, ticker is R-E-L-A-I-S. It's a Swedish auto aftermarket specialist. So it's based in the Nordics and the Balkans and a small bit in the rest of Europe as well. But the vast majority of revenue comes from the Nordics. So it sells spare parts, components, accessories to vehicle repair shops, retailers, fleet owners, and even like your at-home DIY builders as well. And then it also offers repair and maintenance services. So it's got 62 heavy commercial vehicle workshops. That actually makes it the biggest operator of independent commercial vehicle workshops in the Nordics.

3:43Based on all that, market cap is only around 320 million euros at the time of recording, which is about 370 million uh 370 million dollars maybe a bit more after the mess that started this week out um but given the size of the company you know less than a half million comfortably less than half a billion comfortably um relay estimates the size of the aftermarket industry in the nordics alone at 20 billion dollars you know that's a lot of room to run into obviously that makes an incredibly fragmented market which is in a sense you know the kind of secret sauce to this stock and because it's a company that is like amassing amassing new bolt-on acquisitions whether it be a new production like kind of manufacturing plant or whether it be a new workshop it's using scale advantages and this is like a strategy i love to see just because we've seen it work so well on so many different occasions so this stock really reminds me of one of the best performing stocks of all time in o'reilly auto parts which you'll probably know but even less so like it doesn't obviously we go to straight to o'reilly auto parts because it's an aftermarket aftermarket part specialist as well but it doesn't really have to be in the auto world at all so like core of maine it reminds me of as well or watsko where you just have a big conglomerate but a big cereal aquire going around to local markets and being the biggest fish in every pond if that makes sense so if i am michael o'mahony and i and you are in fairness let's call this and i have and i have i have my own independent workshop and i am repairing trucks outside of helsinki if my main competitor is bought by Relay Group.

5:38I kind of don't really have it's that much of a chance in terms of pricing power, in terms of, you know, inventory, in terms of just pure scale advantages. This is kind of what Relay Group's Relay Group does over and over again. So for that, I really like the business model, and I love those scale advantages. So that's why I'm picking it. It's split up into the kind of two main divisions. So it's It has technical wholesale and products, which it sells to retail shops, to the DIY maker. And then it's got the maintenance shops, which, yeah, 62 maintenance shops across the Nordics. High insider ownership, time-proven capital allocation strategy.

6:19We've seen it work for a relay group, but we've also seen it work on major scales in the US, in Europe, everywhere else. Service fragmented market, very important. Scale advantage is obviously the main kind of ingredient in all of this. and then combine that all. And you have the early signs of a stock like O 'Reilly or Watsco or even Coromain. Reasonably valued, there's a dividend yield of about 3%, I think, which is not to be sniffed at. The only downside jumping out at me is that longtime CEO Arne Ekholm is leaving the company in March, which is not ideal because he's seen it. He's brought the company to a lot of success so far.

6:55So that's Relay Group.

6:58Emmet:Okay, Mike, I will not comment because I'm about to try and pitch you down with my stock that's worth less than a billion dollars in market cap. And just for everybody, for level setting, just for our listeners interest, market cap is calculated by multiplying the current share price by all the current issued shares. So every share in existence multiplied by the share price gives a quick price tag for what the entire business is worth. Very quick because there are flaws in it, but it is the way, is the conversation of stock market investing. So my business worth less than a billion in market cap is so opposite to yours.

7:37Emmet:So it's just a stratospheric difference. I'm going to pitch a stock that was a wild card pitch in Horizon and is so, so risky. So wildly risky, I considered reading out a statement from our legal office. So please listeners, caveat emptor, buyer beware. Just because we identify something as a risk does not mean that that risk will not come to bear there's a human bias that relates to a feeling that a risk is lessened once it's discussed there is this human like if you get onto a boat and they discuss the risk of it sinking you feel it risk is minimized because you've discussed it well that's not the case from a retail investing perspective that's an awful lot of caveats so the listeners are like what what's he going to recommend flying rabbits or something no nearly.

8:26Emmet:I'm going to recommend a company called Vertical Aerospace and this is one of those companies where the opportunity is enormous but so too are the risks which makes it genuinely interesting. Vertical the business builds EVTOLS or E-V-T-O-L-S, electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft, E-V-T-O-L. And if you've never heard of these things before you absolutely will in the future because a huge part of urban mobility going forward is going to be is predicated on successful deployments of eftels so vertical my head sorry to stop in my head that's like small helicopters am i am i wrong well you see that's the thing it seems to be a more contemporary exciting way of of describing a helicopter and they don't look a million miles uh they don't look unlike a helicopter rather i should say um i usually have more propeller points now the vertical verticals manifestation of them looks a little bit like a smaller plane but the blades can tilt upwards uh causing of uh whatever it is a vacuum under the blades which allows it to go straight up like a helicopter but probably and it's the current version that i can see looks a bit more like an airplane so yes you're right i mean uh electric vertical sorry vertical takeoff and landing has been the mainstay of helicopters since they're invented this is the electric bit It is what I guess brings them to a new era.

9:53Do you want to know a fun fact about the word helicopter?

9:57Emmet:I do, of course, but I bet you're going to say some better Leonardo da Vinci. No, no, no, no. Okay. It's actually about the word helicopter. So everyone thinks that like the, what's the word? It's not taxonomy of a word, is it? I don't know. I don't even know. The origins of the word. Oh, I see. Okay. It's not taxonomy. Every day is a school day. but everyone would think automatically that like you know it's heli and then copter yes but copter is actually from the word helicopter which is where people associate it with it's actually helico and then pter so like you know like uh the origin like pterodactyl is uh it's latin for wing or something and then helico stand back monks town when i'm walking through my local village i'm going to be telling people that that is a good fact um okay well great well with that now i don't know where to go just buy buy buy vertical aerospace apparently yeah well the company well guess what the company is also developing hybrid electric versions but like in my view the long-term price is fully electric and um airspace is the development of something new that flies is brutally front-loaded from an R &D perspective, various different forms of the vehicle have to be iterated upon, and most of all, regulatory.

11:23Emmet:So there's years of engineering and testing and tons and tons of cash. And that's just before any revenue will appear into the coffer. So time is a very big factor when you consider vertical aerospace, as in the amount of time it requires from concept through to commercial deployment and the first thing that caught my eye with this business which horizon subscribers will know was that the person who's sitting at the head of the table at the board is an irish man called donald slattery who is one of ireland's most successful and entrepreneur and influential entrepreneurs ever but specifically in global aviation finance which is quite a big irish industry and he founded a company called avalon which is one of the darlings of the uh irish uh aviation industry and he also built uh and because it's i think it's their world's largest aircraft leasing business and we've discussed it now air cap is the largest because it's bosh oh i see company i should know the name of big long uh was it general general electric air whatever it was it used to be avalon and air cop bought say number three or four and air cap but avalon is absolutely huge you're right and in the irish context it's a duopoly and maybe globally but it certainly isn't a perfect duopoly but they are the two big names yeah there there are other ones but definitely yeah there's definitely other ones but i got to leave would be for sure three or four for sure so air cap and yeah there are two big ones and but but so seeing donald slattery the founder of avalon involved really mattered to me from an interest perspective and i'll explain why because the ambition for vertical is absolutely ginormous and management is talking about projections where it could be generating close to 11 billion in annual revenue in about a decade from now which is essentially starting from zero zero dollars revenue at the moment and that's not something i'd plug into a spreadsheet that that's for sure because of all the risks that lie between now and then and anything between now and 10 years from now is riddled with risk but it does tell us about the size of the prize if certification and scaling is done right and it's also helpful to look then at vertical's peers and the two that they honed in on in the recent investor day presentation was joby aviation and archer aviation who have grown like mad in the last year one is 10 times bigger than a vertical and the other is 20 times bigger than vertical and it has not yet vertical has not yet budged its share price has probably drifted down a bit over the last 12 months and that's despite the fact that it's targeting certification in some of the most demanding regulatory jurisdictions in the world read as Europe.

14:19Emmet:So its current market cap is about 650 million bucks. Joby is 10x, Archer is 20 times the size. And it brings me down, this brings me to what I think the market is missing, because I think the market is missing something at the moment. And that's a significant portion of vertical's strategic positioning flows through avalon donald slattery's business per se and it's a public business but you know what i mean so avalon is a big buyer or has filled the order book of vertical with order for um for its vehicles when they are fully deployed it brings financing expertise fleet placement global distribution all the things that earlier stage aerospace companies would struggle with i mean if you and i and our 10 most ambitious and intelligent listeners said we're going to start a competitor to vertical as much as our brilliance would bring us to a place nothing beats having a strategic partner quite like um avalon is to to vertical so as i mentioned vertical is pursuing certification in the uk and europe first it's widely which is widely regarded as the gold standard regulators and if they are successful there here.

15:33Emmet:It would more than likely accelerate acceptance in the US of A and in Asia. And the decision to pursue both fully electric and hybrid electric aircraft also broadens the addressable market beyond urban air taxis because they can now bring aircraft into logistics and defense and emergency services where range is far more important than having an electrical capability so um before i i shut up and we both vote i'll just say the bear the bear argument the argument that's that's made to say it's going to go down is that this is still a business burning cash like crazy lots more cash is going to be required before that certification arrives which i think will be this year um the 1500 aircraft order book uh is non-binding so while they've one and a half thousand aircrafts quote unquote sold they're not sold and they're promised and they're promised to the to the business that donald slattery founded and he is the chair so that is a relationship that matters um and delays aren't just possible they're more or less certain which is the way it goes a bit like when you're going for new drug development or new med tech this is very very very important we want to make sure the vehicles are right as opposed to got out the door fast um and i i very recently voted in favor of increasing the authorized share capital as a shareholder and that really means in plain english that they are going to go through dilution ahoy because they have to raise a whole ton of new money so there was 200 million shares in issuance and they've raised the cap up to a billion so you can just that in itself tells those who are well used to listening to those things that there's an awful lot of dilution to So it has enormous long-term opportunity and a very real near-term risk.

17:27Emmet:And it could grow massively to just partial size of its competitors today or could indeed get crushed. But for now, the market is, I think, underestimating the strategic importance of Avalon's involvement. And I am a shareholder. It is hyper risky, but I think it has a 10x potential. 10x potential so we have on the table in front of us at opposite opposite ends of the scale a traditional business being built built out from did you say sweden finland finland sorry of course and mine being built out ostensibly from uk and ireland so um you have a you've a you've 10 grand of your your granddad's money mike and he says right michael do your best how are you going to split that between those two stocks actually your grandfather's a bad one because he hasn't found the elixir so he's you know it's a his risk profile should match somebody in their 80s well i don't know if there's any risk profile i've been dead for about 30 years but uh No longer.

18:35Both of them.

18:37Emmet:Mike, sorry about that. That was an insensitive. That was a very insensitive thing for me to say. It was not. Not at all. I, with my 10 grand, would probably go nine grand into Relay and then one grand into Vertigo because it's, judging from that alone, you know, it's probably maybe a coin flip to go from 10x or to go to zero. Would that be a fair statement? Yeah, I think the probability of the two outcomes, I think, are probably evenly matched. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's the old statement of, you know, if it works out, it'll work out big. And so I only need to own a little piece. Yeah. But I certainly wouldn't be going in with a big position.

19:31but maybe a little fun, not, I wouldn't say inconsequential, but fun money on it. Are you only saying that to make me feel good?

19:43Emmet:In reality, would you actually put€1 ,000 into vertical? No, I wouldn't put€1 ,000, but if you're giving me this€10 ,000 and it has to go between those two businesses in this very strict confines of this hypothetical, that's what would happen. I'm not going out and buying it tomorrow. with uh it's funny you know there you have it i i'm i'm a like avert i would flip it i'd go 9k into vertical and 1k into snorco up in finland and the reason is because stock investing the way i do it is there to change outcomes life outcomes i want to know that the bigger tickets that have a bias on them the lotto tickets that might come in were done through the stock market for conservative investments i wouldn't be looking up to finland i'd be thinking of something else so i'd probably go 9k into into vertical okay very good i think that's a good juxtaposition of it is actually it's good so we in coincidentally both of those businesses are european stocks and our next pitch is easier in fairness easier to find quality businesses is under a billion in Europe than you.

20:56I think so too.

20:57Emmet:Oh, for sure. But I tell you what, so our listeners don't have a two-hour podcast to listen to. Let's do this one even faster. I'm going to go with a business that's up very significantly since it was recommended in Nexus One about two years ago. And it was one that was mentioned by you in passing on last week's podcast. Can you guess what it is, Mike? I hope I can remember a week ago. Yeah, it has to be cameras. On the nose. so yes yeah it's a magnificent business it really is and it's investor relations presentation uh is one that everyone should look at just type in cameras space ir investor relation look at the last powerpoint just to see what growth really looks like so at the heart of the business is this proprietary fluid crystal technology which is a long acting drug delivery system that turns of injectable medications into weekly, monthly, or even monthly, or even longer duration treatments, which may sound trivial, but in chronic and serious diseases, dosing frequency is really the difference between a drug that works on paper and one that works in the real world.

22:06Emmet:So, what Cameras is, is a commercial stage drug company with a flagship product called Buvidal in europe and brixadi in the u.s and these are long acting treatments for opioid dependence which as you explained to me last week affects something like 11 percent of adults was that the stat you gave me there was one study another said it was nine million in the u.s but still for sure it's number one well either way this is it it's a global health crisis yeah we won't fall out over it but it is a global health crisis with an enormous unmet need so instead of daily dosing people who are suffering from this addiction take this treatment weekly or monthly which has a couple of uh benefits apart from a reduced hassle that reduces stigma it improves compliance because you only have to remember once a week and it lowers the risk of uh diversion or misuse you could say so but but what really elevates the story of cameras is it's it's pipeline it's it's advancing a long acting octreotide across multiple serious indications for various types of neuroendocrine tumors and polycystic liver disease but drugs that do something very very important for very damaging illnesses and it has already delivered phase three results and is being commercialized in europe with approvals pending what i would say is that across indications management has estimated that peak sales are potentially north of two billion dollars from a single molecule molecule delivered through the same platform um so really what we're looking at here is a swedish um pharmaceutical business doing something that is needed every well all over the world at the moment with opioid addiction and also has a a new drug coming up to to embrace the obesity the once a month Smell the Tide, whatever you call that drug, Smell the Tide, Me Too product.

24:12Emmet:Thanks for that, Mike. And it has a licensing partnership with Eli Lilly. It's a lovely business. Look at its IR deck. You will just see that if the trend is indeed your friend, the revenue that our growth of this business is unlike anything. It really is. And when I look at it, I see a company that's already printing money, a platform that could work much harder over time it's profitable catch rich catch it's cash rich it's founder led and it's tackling diseases for better delivery genuinely changes outcomes um so something that i it's a business that i i'm very very keen on okay that's great i'll be off against a tough one here anyways all right uh the european stock i am picking comes from a very personal uh very personal space which is a very weird reason to uh recommend this stock but i actually genuinely think it's going to be one of my next uh new purchases for the portfolio uh the stock is called vinci it's a massive french industrial conglomerate that builds and operates key infrastructure such as motorways airports solar wind farms rail lines and now the reason why i'm so strongly considering buying it is because my heart is absolutely broken by paying all these tolls on the motorways over here in France.

25:32Every 40 minutes anywhere you go, you're paying between two and four euro. And I looked it up. Vinci operates roughly 50 % of toll roads in France and about 35 % of the country's entire motorway network.

25:45Emmet:Buy the toll bridge. I've always heard that, you know, own the toll bridge. Including the flipping A63 out front about 10 minutes away from my house. So it is a lot more than that. but that would be the reason my thinking is essentially that the dividends i would get from my vinci stock would pay my tolls for a year was the thinking but beyond the toll roads uh it's the world's largest operator of private airports uh it's gosh it's got an airport network across 14 countries so it owns if anyone's flown to portugal it owns ana aeroportos to portugal it owns omar Mexico. It owns Amazonia airports in Brazil.

26:26It owns Gatwick. It owns Edinburgh. Vinci Constructions, France's leading construction company, does everything, basically commercial, residential, civil works, rail networks, road works. It actually owns four stadiums in France as well. It has an industrial engineering firm called Cobra IES. It's this big, massive, boring business that kind of has its finger in so many pies, not only in France, but completely across the globe. It's one of the world's largest construction firms. I think it's worth about 80 billion euros in market cap. So up past, that's nearly a hundred billion market cap. And I think the real, like the kind of the secret sauce, if you go back to the term secret sauce.

27:11But secret sauce for this business is the high recurring cash flows, high margin business from say, the toll roads and the airports, then being reinvested into the kind of capital intensive, high barrier to entry stuff like building out new roads or building out rail networks or, you know, these heavy construction projects like billion dollar construction projects. So that's a good revenue mix. And I think it works really well. And then you've got about a 4 % dividend yield it's not going anywhere anytime soon so that's why it's a nice diversification for your portfolio especially if you know you have already owned nine grand in vertical area

27:50Emmet:space this could be a good balance for that so tell me is it vinci like davinci or is it how do we spell it vinci the ticker is dg i think it trades on your nice pass um it would be like you know i'm trying to think of an irish comparison what's it like being like uh crh yeah it sounds like crh it's one of those not not obviously as a big construction company but more as just that whole stalwart infrastructure business that i imagine a lot of french pensions will own in fistfills okay so 10k mike um we have in one corner vinci and in the other corner cameras what would you do that's a good that's a good balance between those two stocks isn't it i think it's a very good i think i would go six four cameras i think yeah that's a fair mix maybe it's toe in the middle line too much but i like both businesses for very different reasons so i think cameras obviously has way more upside potential but lynchie is there as that kind of solid solid stalwart of the portfolio well never to twain mike because i'm with you i think they are beautifully balanced i would go 50 50 very boring but i'd put five grand into davinci five grand into cameras and understanding that they're delivering entirely different things yeah yeah that's a good nice exercise here the difference in businesses we're getting is very interesting yeah it is very interesting um okay so next next next is a stock that's down more than 30 percent from all time highs which as you said at the top of the pod is the area in which you like to fish so how's about you start with this one yeah so there was there was a few areas you could go here i know very nearly put down constellation software i believe the ai thrash is somewhat overblown considering and the nature of its clients, I think it could end up being the facilitator for a lot of them.

29:59So I do think the sell-off is unwarranted, even though it was overpriced to begin with. So maybe it just needs to come back down to reality somewhat valuation-wise. I was also looking through this. You'd be surprised who qualifies for this, even though the stock is up like 500 % in the last two years. But Garden Health is still down over 30 % from its post-pandemic highs, which goes to show you just how nuts things got there around late 2020 2021 you know it cuts the i think it puts the current market into perspective i don't think we're any close to that kind of exuberance do you know what i mean and people are talking about bubbles and i think this is specifically centered around this ai trade but in terms of like how crazy things got but we're nowhere near what 2020, 2021 was like.

30:45But the stock I went for was Novo Nordisk. And I know I am barking up this tree again, and it could very well be good money after bad, but I just have to believe that new management can't mess up as badly as their predecessors. And it was funny, I was reading through this, and do you know Terry Smith, Fundsmith over in the UK?

31:04Emmet:Oh, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. So one of the UK's kind of biggest hedge funds, and he's a really, really impressive investor. so his annual letter came out there it started January and it's just ringing way too true for me or anyone who's been following the stock over the last couple of years so I'm going to read it out here it says, Novo Nordis managed to reaffirm my belief that you should never say things can't get any worse the company has parlayed a market leading position and was probably the most exciting drug development for about three decades into a secondary position and has failed to prevent illegal generic competition in its core US market.

31:38One of our mentors has been that we should always invest in businesses which could be run by an idiot so that performance is not heavily reliant upon management. We have been made painfully aware that the range of businesses which can be run by an idiot is much more limited than we thought and thereafter will aim to be more aware of the impact that poor management can have. Our experience also suggests that when we encounter poor management, engagement to change it is less effective than selling the shares meanwhile novo nordis is appointed new ceo and made a wholesale board changes and the present rating of 13 appears to us to be expecting very little if we did not already own it i suspect i suspect we would contemplate buying it as a good business which has been depressed by a glitch albeit a rather big glitch um this kind of sums up my thinking a little bit i was in too early on this one with last year's stock of the month i think you got it around may june thinking you You know, things can't get, they can't mess it up more.

32:37They have too much of a golden goose in front of them, but they did, obviously. But yeah, just throw into on top of that, just in general, like the kind of, it has to get better from here. On top of that, they were first to market with the GFP1 pill. So things are on the rise for the stock. It's had a nice boost from the recent lows. and then just the huge valuation gap it has between it and Eli Lilly is ridiculous, considering they almost posted similar net profits for 2025. For this year alone, at least I think we could see a bounce back. Long term, I'm not 100 % convinced. I think they're behind in the kind of next generation GLP-1 drugs when it comes to retrotride.

33:21I'm butchering that pronunciation, but it seems to be really outperforming anything and over and over and over and over again, I think it's a good thing. But I do believe that there should be a short-term bounce back for a business that is still making money hand over fist, just did everything wrong possible for the last whatever, two, two and a half years.

33:40Emmet:That's a very interesting one because I have looked at Eli over and over and that by a business that any idiot could run, quote, I think started with Peter Lynch and one up on Wall Street, by a business that any idiot can run because someday an idiot will run it. And I can't, that is not a personal comment on the outgoing CEO of Eli, but I meant to say Novo, sorry. But what worries me is just how they're all at it. Even cameras, Teru, I pitched a minute ago, are running into the market. Everybody has suddenly got the panacea for weight, if you like. yeah yeah i'm a little worried about it but you know they're also a multi-trick pony i don't even know what else they have but i was talking to somebody who speaks for one who who's senior in sales one of the giant uh farmers recently and and if they don't have a drug that's already in phase two phase three and something big is coming they just go and buy it and um exactly yeah anyway great okay i'm going to i'm going to well i move on to my one mike are we done absolutely yeah Thank you for that.

34:54Emmet:Right, a stock that's down more than 30 % from all-time highs. Mine is down way more than 30%. I don't have the chart in front of me. It's a company we all know. So we've discussed a few business. Sorry, I'm going to say it's a business that most of our listeners know, unlike perhaps the majority of companies that we've discussed at this moment. And I'm going with Rivian. Oh, yeah. I think it's one of the most misunderstood large cap growth stories in the market right now. it those who are know it know it but basically they make ev trucks so jeez i pitched an ev flying car company now i'm pitching an ev driving truck company well i went through european so yeah more creative yeah well so um it looks like an early stage tesla to me it's a full stack ev electric vehicle platform it has its own proprietary software it has a credible path for premium vehicles to mass market you might have seen their vehicles on uh shows like um the morning show on apple that one of the protagonists on that drives a rivian and if you watched um long way up with ewan mcgregor and charlie burman uh the support vehicle that's driven beside them is a rivian truck okay you know the one i'm talking about folks got funny eyes on it the headlamps are kind of like long ovals um but on the numbers rivian's most recent quarter which was q3 2025 so that's the latest numbers we have had 1.55 billion of revenue which was 78 percent up year on year 24 million of gross profit which is a really meaningful minds milestone uh for a company that has spent most of its life incinerating cash um i ended up in prep for this little piece looking at their website and watching a video on the front of the website of their production plant which is so interesting i love that stuff robotic arms flinging bits of metal along the place and stamping them it's great rivian is the one that has the amazon partnership is that correct yep correctamundo yep that is a fact and in fact they they have quite some significant part partnerships um like for example their software and services uh as a just kind of this other business unit is is is contributing some very real revenue it it reached about over 400 million dollars in that last quarter um about half of which was tied to a link a joint venture with volkswagen so yes they have amazon but they also have volkswagen or volkswagen as a um as a as a as a customer and the early evidence is that rivian's tech stack can be monetized beyond its own vehicles uh it has about seven or at least finished that quarter i mentioned but about seven over seven billion in cash and cash equivalents it gives it the runway to keep pushing down costs ramping up production funding the platform uh cycle but the real catalyst for this particular stock is um is is this new vehicle the r2 the unimaginatively named r2 which is on track to begin deliveries soon in the first half of 2026 which will open up a bigger market, larger addressable market, and lower price point.

38:14Emmet:And if their execution that we've seen in the recent quarter holds up, this is a really classic playbook. You prove the brand. You get, you know, you prove the brand with the higher end tech. Like Tesla brought out the Model S. It was the kind of, for most people, an inaccessible vehicle that you could admire if it drove past. Built the brand awareness with really sleek looking vehicles. Rivian has done the same. and then they they as tesla did move into the volume segment and that uh and then with the added bonus of rivian software and architecture uh with a second customer on volkswagen um when i like i i think we're looking at a future dined that's just in the doldrums um it's something that looks to me increasingly like an early stage tesla um full stack as i said ev platform own hardware software and a factory that you just gotta see by going to rivian.com so i'm a fan And I'm a fan that it's down now, as I said, in the gutter at the moment.

39:14Yeah, I would be skeptical about the EV picture in general, just with pressure from China. And then the U.S. kind of general public turning its back on it somewhat. But Rivian's main story is more B2B. Am I wrong?