Chapters Group: Europe's Mini Constellation Software With Compounding Quality's Pieter Slegers

0:00This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Welcome to Stock Club, the podcast where we find and discuss stocks that anyone can buy, many of which we believe will go on to grow your wealth.

0:41This week, I'm joined by an investing legend in the making, one of the most influential individuals from a new generation of investors who built a community and a service on Substack. But Peter Slagers did it differently. With compounding quality, he amassed well over half a million subscribers, which attracted the attention of many giants of the industry known to all, such as Jeff Bezos. I found Peter through my research of a specific company that we both like, and from there, a friendship was forged. Peter is joining me on stage again this year at Investicon, Thursday 27th of August, alongside Bill Mann, Eric Bleeker, Simon Zeebo, David Gardner of the Motty Fool, of course, and whiskey expert Robert Johnson, where we and all guests will all name our three favorite investments in our domain of expertise, of course, for any wallet size.

1:46There are elements to the day that I just can't promote. However, I think attendees will be very happy. So there you go. If you want to attend Investicon on August 27th in the Market Bar in Dublin City, an all-day event, which will include lunch and libation, and if you want first refusal on early bird tickets, if we do it next year, email brian at mywallstreet.com. That's Brian at M-Y-W-A-L-L-S-T dot com.

2:26Right, Peter Slakers, welcome back to Stock Club. How are you doing, brother? Thank you very much, Emmett. It's always an honor to be here. And as you mentioned, well, last year was my first year at Investicon. And I'm very much looking forward to being there again because last year the event was amazing. so hopefully we can make it even better for everyone who attends this year thanks it was my first year at investicon as well we called it year zero as you remember because we weren't sure if we could fill both sides of the marketplace the stage on the floor which is the trick i mean events are tricky but anyway thank you for returning to ireland i'm looking forward to seeing you first up peter where in the world are you now because i don't think i know of anyone who does more air miles to attend shareholder meetings than you that's but right now i just uh since yesterday i'm back home so home for me is belgium so that's where i'm based but it's true emmets usually we are traveling a lot and i think that's one of the best ways to get to know your companies even better and make a difference so um yeah that's how we try to make a difference with compounding quality and with tiny titans i was so close to antrop i'm kind of surprised you didn't decide to go the diamond route to wealth creation.

3:43That would be even better. That would be even better. What was the last shareholder meeting you attended, Peter? Well, last one, and I think it's also a company that you are familiar with, Amit, was Chapters Group in Germany. So that's also, I think, the best way. Chapters Group won't ring a bell for many people. It will ring a bell, I think, for people who attended Investicon last year. Yes, correct. You can see it a little bit as a mini Constellation software, a company in Germany that tries to replicate the entire business model of Constellation. And it's doing that in Europe. And the big advantage there is obviously they are still very, very small.

4:25And because of that, their upside potential is tremendous. And one thing that I learned during the Capital Markets Day now is there are actually, that's no surprise, I think, but there are actually a lot of people who used to work for Constellation Software that now work for Chapters Group. But what I didn't know, and that was new for me, well, it was an event based in Germany. And in the bar, we were talking with some employees there. well actually in Germany the culture the atmosphere of constellation software doesn't seem to be very good in the sense that it's a very demanding very well in some regard or according to some people toxic work atmosphere and that's why those people will decide to left to leave constellation software and go to chapters group so it's one of the companies that I'm truly enthusiastic about well what was for me the reason that i went to hamburg and for me that's more or less a seven hour drive by car well i was discussing the chapters group investment thesis with a friend and we both agreed okay this might be an interesting company but i don't know whether the ceo and the ceo's yeah more i don't know whether he's the real deal whether he's walking the talk well what do you do in that case if you're a true invest investment nerd like you and me emmett well you drive seven hours to meet the ceo and go to the capital markets day and see what's going on there and in short my conclusion from jan more as well is i think he is a real deal i think he is walking the talk and as long as he is is the ceo and he's still in his 30s so he's still very young as long as he is the ceo well i think things are great there and you can give a few examples which might sound really stupid but for me they mean a lot well we had the capital markets day day thereafter we had the annual general meeting well even at the annual general meeting which is a very formal a little bit stiff event everyone everyone in suits and so on well Jan Moore, the CEO, he just arrives with his helmet, his bicycle helmet in his hand, saying that he just dropped off his kids at school at 4.30 p.m.

6:44during the reception. He also said, OK, I'm going to pick up my kids, drop them off at home and I'll be back. So it's someone who is very, very down to earth. Wow. Very normal. And that's the thing that I like. and we traveled with three people from Belgium and the reception at the AGM was over. It was something like 6.30 p.m., 7 p.m. And then the entire management group of Chapters Group is still standing there and three weird guys from Belgium. So they asked us, okay, where do you need to go? We said, okay, we still have a seven-hour drive. We have a hotel. We'll go back tomorrow. And they said to us, well, okay, in that case, do you want to, there is an internal dinner for a management team of Chapters Group.

7:30want to join obviously you want to join in that case and those are really the the meetings the the dinners where you can really get a true grasp about the company so so i would say there well that was my last shareholder meeting and i only became more enthusiastic about the company especially because it's and then i'll stop talking about it because it's backed by a lot of quality shareholders like the founders of Demaha are invested. Will Thorndike from the book The Outsiders is invested. Daniel Eck, the founder of Spotify is invested in the company. So you have a lot of quality shareholders involved there as well.

8:09This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales. Using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows, to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. And I've literally just looked at it and its market cap as of this minute is a billion euros, so it's still a minnow.

8:45So let me just ask a question about it because really you've hooked my interest and I'm sure a listener's interest from the outset. when you spoke about Constellation in Europe, are you referring to Topicus? I'm actually, so in detail, you have Constellation Software and then you have the spin-off Topicus who focus on the European activities. But Constellation Software also has some employees in Europe. So I'm actually talking about Constellation Software itself. And that's a completely other story, Emmett. I actually think at this point in time that Topicus might be a bit more interesting than Constellation Software, just because of the valuation, which is a little bit cheaper.

9:25And certainly if you combine it with the future growth prospect. So it's a little bit similar. Topicus is smaller than Constellation Software. The European market is very fragmented. So yeah, I see a lot of potential or upside opportunities there. So are Topicus and Chapters vying for the same acquirees? Are they looking at the same targets or are their verticals different? More or less, you could say they are looking for the same targets. I think that's a fair statement. On the other hand, the market is so fragmented, especially in Europe, that there's not a real issue at this point in time. It's not that they are truly competing, that they are pushing the prices higher at this point in time.

10:10And that's the interesting thing about that business model, I think. Because that market is so fragmented, well, they are doing quite well. I think one slight advantage that Chapters Group has, and also I didn't attend it, but I watched all the videos afterwards. You have the serial acquires there, Fredi in Stockholm. Well, Chapters Group is really on top of the game if you are looking at artificial intelligence, which obviously is a very hot topic and is very important. Well, they seem to be in front there. And that's also something I noticed. Well, I also went to the Berkshire AGM earlier this year.

10:50Chapters Group management team was there as well. Well, how they implement AI and how they are encouraging everyone to use AI within their business. Well, it's very strong there. So that's very interesting. Already, this is a great conversation. Okay, look, rather than going deep on Chapters, because you did speak about it at Investicon last year. And indeed, you've just given us a really good pitch there. and I'm sure a lot of our listeners are going to be getting on it to do a little bit of research of their own. I'm going to change direction a little bit. So since we last spoke on this very podcast, you've launched a small cap investing service called Tiny Titans, which I think is a great name.

11:32But can you tell me a little bit about Tiny Titans before I kind of riddle you with questions about the service? Yeah, sure, Emmett. Thank you. Well, Tiny Titans, what's in a name? So Tiny Titans is all about companies that are tiny right now, that are still small right now, but where we believe that they have the potential to become titans. So it's a little bit like trying to find Monster Beverage, trying to find Apple, trying to find Amazon 20, 30 years ago. That's the entire goal. Why did we decide to launch Tiny Titans? Well, it's very simple. if you want to and that's what Warren Buffett said if you want to be successful on the stock market you should go where competition is weak where is the competition weak well it's with the smaller companies with the smaller caps the micro caps companies that aren't followed by many analysts because I think it's very naive that you can have an analytical advantage today in today's markets by analyzing Apple because everyone is analyzing Apple but if you do your homework with the small companies well that's where you can make a difference and one extra example i'm quickly returning back to chapters for one sec last year was the first year i went to the chapters group agm i wrote my report my summary things i learned and i sent it to jan moore the ceo asking him well can we can we publish this for tiny titans and his answer was well if If you don't mind, I would prefer not to because in hindsight, we were a little bit too open during our capital markets days.

13:09And it contains information that might be beneficial for some competitors, maybe for Topicus, for example. And those are the things that you will never, ever be able to do via an Apple or via an Amazon, for example. Entirely. When I still worked in the industry, I worked for an asset management company involved in managing a daily equity fund or long-only equity fund, the climate fund. Well, our fund was relatively small. We had$250 million in assets under management. And even we, with$250 million, that's a lot of money. But from a Wall Street perspective, that's absolutely peanuts. Even we, we didn't look at companies with a market cap below$10 billion.

13:54So that means that if you look at Wall Street, for example, everyone is looking at companies with a market cap below over 100 billion, even 200 billion. In other words, everyone is looking at companies at 100, 150, maybe 200 companies at max. And if you do your own homework and if you are right with companies with a market cap of, let's say, 1 billion, well, that's where you can make a real difference. And that's where your performance is generated. and that's maybe my last point if you look at the best investors in the world if you look at Warren Buffett if you look at Chuck Aker, Francois Shaw I'm looking at the quality investors right now you see the same thing every single time being they start their funds the outperformance is massive and then gradually the outperformance starts to decrease and decrease and decrease what's the reason for that well their track record is good they become more successful They have more money to manage, so more assets on their management.

14:54And as a result, they can't buy the small companies anymore. And that's what's hurting their performance. So the main advantage that we have, that you and I have, that people hopefully listening to this have, is that you can still invest in the small companies. And that's where your performance can be generated. No question died about it. I mean, I think I invested when when I invested in my greatest investment, which was Netflix, its market cap is 250 million. I mean, the thing was a minnow. And I know that you and I have a shared interest in a very, very small company. In fact, it's the company that connected us, which is Kelly Partners in Australia.

15:31But but one thing is that small companies often look wonderful precisely because they haven't really faced some serious competition. I think of med tech as a good example where a great business with great founders and a great product have developed something that the world needs. But as soon as they come into the laser beams of intuitive surgical, for example, they're going to face some very serious competition. So how do you distinguish or if you can between a genuine moat from a business that has simply enjoyed, let's say, an easy adolescence, you might say? That's a very good question, Emmett.

16:13And I think what you see, at least my investment philosophy, is more you try to replicate Warren Buffett a little bit. You want to invest in profitable companies with a moat that have a high return on invested capital and so on and so on. and what you see then if you apply this to small companies to small caps to potential tiny titans well in that case you will see that you will often find companies in a certain niche markets so maybe a small market where they are entirely dominating the market and yeah sometimes it can be something simple or stupid like games workshop being a market leader clear market leader in miniature games those are the companies you often find in that case because it's right otc markets the stock exchange is another example they do well they are the new york stock exchange or the nasdaq for otc companies for over-the-counter companies so you often find those companies that are active in the niche markets because that's well what is the worst thing that can happen to you as a quality investor if you invest in a quality stock that is for example losing its moat and then well it can get tricky because then usually quality companies are trading at rich valuation levels so the valuation goes down and also the earnings growth goes down as well and you have chris mayer for example which you i'm no doubt that you know him really well amit well what creates multi-baggers, what creates 100 baggers or potential 100 baggers, it's always two forces will play out at the same time.

17:51And that's one, a clear or very attractive growth of the intrinsic value, EPS growth, free cash flow per share growth. And a second point is multiple expansion. And if you can combine both at the same time, that's very, very powerful. If you have a company, for example, that can double its earnings growth, or double its earnings, double its EPS, and at the same time can also double its valuation, its multiple, well, then you have a 4x return. So that's how your flywheel starts to accelerate. And I think it's very important, if you look at Tiny Titus, that we are not really looking at the next big thing.

18:31We are not looking at a loss-making company that is trying to replicate SpaceX. I'm just making things up right now. But more the companies that are already structurally profitable have already been structural, profitable for years and years and years. And where we think and believe that they can keep doing really well going forward. Totally. So Compounding Quality is your baby. It's your original business. And it's now a pretty huge brand when it comes to someone sits down and Googles, what stocks should I buy? Compounding Quality will present itself on page one. How has your actual definition of a quality business evolved since you started versus what you believed, say, five years ago?

19:15So if at all. So when you think quality, what springs to mind? Yeah, sure. I don't think my definition really changed being what is quality investing? What's all about investing in the best companies in the world? And I try to do that via three steps. being one, by wonderful companies, two, led by amazing managers, and three, trading at the fair valuation level. So the essence stay the same. But it's also indeed very important as an investor, we always need to keep evolving, keep learning, keep making progress. And if I look in hindsight at my main mistakes since I started compounding quality, for example, well, my main mistakes have always been when I said, okay, this company is maybe not the highest quality company in the world, but I think it's so cheap.

20:06I think the margin of safety is so high that I still want to take it into my portfolio. Those have always been my mistakes. I think a great example of that is, for example, Novo Nordisk. And going forward and evolving more, I think it's very important to focus even more and more on quality. It's like Chris Hohn, for example, with his Stalbridge businesses. Those are the companies that probably will stick around, still be around in 20 years from now. And that's so important. So that's great. Certainly, even an evolution you see in my portfolio, in my thinking to evolve even more to quality and then hopefully try to buy them at the fair valuation level, of course.

20:54But I think that's the most important thing in general. So the longer you own a stock, the less valuation probably matters and the more that the quality matters. So come here to me, as we say in Ireland. Has managing an audience ever made it harder to change your mind publicly or indeed to exit a company that you previously praised? You go out, you say something, you write something, you go on the record as having had an opinion. and by presenting that opinion it comes with a conviction and strength and you know you've you've done that has that interfered with your thinking yeah it's a fair one i think first and foremost no matter who you're talking with if you are talking about their investments there are always two questions that you need to ask everyone is one how is the track record of what you are recommending to me the fund the stock whatever it is and second point is are Are you invested with your own money in what you are recommending to me?

21:53And when you go to local bank around the corner, you will notice that almost nobody can answer positively on both aspects. And I think that's first and foremost very important. That's, for example, for me, I'm investing with all my own money in the stocks of compounding quality and tiny tights. I think that's very important. It doesn't mean that every decision will be a good one. It definitely won't be. I will make mistakes and I've made mistakes in the past. And I think actually running the newsletter is more an advantage than a disadvantage sometimes. Why? Because the community and the wisdom of crowds is also very strong.

22:34Sometimes there are even people saying like, okay, we're investing in company X. Oh, I drive by the local plant every single day. And I noticed that the parking lot is filled very well recently or the other way around. And those little nuggets sometimes can help you as well. And I think it's very important. You know that everyone knows that. Well, don't fall in love with your stocks. Keep doing your thing and keep being rational about it. And that's so important. And that's why relentlessly also every month I track the free cash flow that the portfolio is generating for us. and to me personally that helps me tremendously to stick the course and be rational and you really really need to be convinced about the stocks that you buy yeah we briefly talked about chapters group already if you now blindly go by chapters group but you don't know what the company is doing you don't have any conviction well shocker you can buy someone's or you can copy someone's stock idea but you can't borrow their conviction if you don't have a conviction you will not be able to pursue when things get tough and things will get tough one day eventually and that's so important to always make your own homework as a result that's a great quote you can borrow someone's ideas but you can't borrow their conviction or you can you you can copy an idea but i love that and it is so true because when i put my hard-earned cash down into any stock it always comes with conviction and that's what i try to impute when i'm talking about the businesses i'm buying so i have a question for you um and it's kind of a philosophy one which mistake is do you think is more damaging over an investing lifetime paying too much for a wonderful company or repeatedly refusing to buy a wonderful company that never looked cheap because i know you're very good at stack ranking quality companies based on what looks like value but sometimes i've wondered have we missed great businesses that don't look like value if you get me yeah true i would say the latter so the biggest mistakes are always mistakes of omission so so stocks that you knew were good ones but you didn't buy why if you buy a quality stock a high quality stock at the a valuation level that is too high.

25:00Well, if you are right, and it's actually a great company, a great business that keeps creating shareholder value, it can be very painful in the short term because, for example, let's say you invested in Intuitive Surgical or you invested in Constellation Software. Okay, Constellation Software is recovering really strong right now. But anyway, it can make a jump or it can decline by 50 % just because the valuation was too expensive. obviously that is very very painful but on the other hand well more painful mistakes Emmett is when you wouldn't have bought Netflix at the 250 million market cap when you wouldn't have bought McDonald's 30 years ago and that's one of the things that I also always ask investors when I interview them Chuck Aker I did Brian Lawrence I did Lawrence Cunningham and so on and so on the answer is always the same what's your biggest mistake well it's selling my winners to oh entirely entirely the whole just never ever ever sell sorry to interrupt you it's remarkably effective because you overthink at the worst times do you know yeah exactly exactly and it's very it's simple math and everyone knows that but sometimes it's it's interesting to stand still and pause a little bit well a stock can only go down 100 everyone knows that but you can go up thousands of percentage and you only need one monster beverage or one amazon or one apple which you bought 20 years ago and all of your other companies probably could have gone bankrupt and you would still have outperformed the market so letting your winners run is so important and one thing as well well let's just imagine emma that you bought the s &p 500 in 1929 so that's after the big depression The S &P had its cheapest valuation level ever back then, trading at six times PE, six times earnings.

26:56And let's just imagine you bought it at the perfect time and you sold it at the perfect time. Well, what was the perfect time? The perfect time to sell the highest valuation level ever was just before the dot-com crash in 2000. Back then, the S &P 500 was trading at 30 times earnings. So in other words, you bought it at six times earnings. You sold at 30 times earnings, meaning that you already 5x your money just because of multiple expansion. And even then, right? Okay, it's over long periods. It's over 60 years, 70 years even. Even then, 90 % of all your returns would have come from the creation of shareholder growth, of EPS growth, of the intrinsic value rather than multiple expansions.

27:41So even if you bought the best possible time and sold the best possible time, which is virtually impossible, still the majority would have come from the earnings growth and the free cash flow per share growth. So the longer you hold the company, well, the better it goes and the more the EPS growth matters.

28:11Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Peter, let me click pause. I'd like to take 10 seconds to remind our audience that you are going to join me at Investicon this year, Thursday, 27th of August, Dublin City, all-day event. Starts at 10 in the morning, which is very early for some people and rather late for others.

28:49And it's going to run through till about 5 or 6 p.m. And during the day, attendees will not only get their lunch and some refreshments, but they will get access to the best concentration of investing minds in the world. And if you want to be there, folks, please email brian at mywallstreet.com and he'll hit you up with one of three discount codes. Okay, Peter, I have a question for you, which troubles, I think, most people, and we try to pretend it doesn't. What one company did you sell because you believed the thesis was broken, only for you to later discover that you had mistaken temporary trouble for permanent deterioration?

29:33It's a good question. And I would say compounding quality right now exists for three years. I've sold four companies so far and so far, but it's still short term. I'm very lucky that it didn't happen yet. So no company that really surged. I think one of the big disadvantages I have as an investor, one thing I should work on as an investor is I'm often too slow. So when I decide to sell a company, maybe I should have sold it already way earlier. So that's more the way I'm framed as an investor. The best example I could maybe give is I think seven years ago when I was still a student. I won a stock pitch competition.

30:14like you everyone starts with ten thousand dollar in fake money and whoever had the most profit after 10 years won a cash prize and i won the student competition back then and i won two thousand five hundred euro and i would say real money not fake money it was real money look you need to take a fake holiday you actually got a real holiday okay i was for me that was a lot of money back then and maybe it still is it's a lot of money for most people with that day especially students Yeah, exactly. So there's one big quality stock in Belgium. And it was that case seven years ago. It still was the case today.

30:49And it's Lotus Bakery. So Biscoff, like the cookie company. And with 2 ,500 euro, I was able to buy one stock of Lotus Bakeries. It was an expensive stock. So I decided, okay, I'm going to buy the stock of Lotus. Okay, I know it's an expensive company. Back then, it was trading at 30 times earnings. but it's so good that I want to own the company. Well, and then it took a while before I received the price money. It took two weeks, three weeks and I started thinking, discussing with friends. I was like, maybe Lotus is a little bit too expensive. So I'm going to buy another company. And once that evaluation of Lotus Bakeries declines, I will switch my position basically.

31:36Well, fast forward to today, I never had the chance to buy a share or shares of Lotus Bakeries. And since then, the stock price increased from$2 ,500 to$12 ,000 today. So that's also the perfect example, like the previous question or a question a few minutes earlier. Well, even if it's expensive, if it's a good business, it can still keep going on for a long time. And those are the mistakes, mistakes of omission that you need to try to avoid. because once 6x in 6, 7 years, well, that will drive your returns of your entire portfolio tremendously, obviously. It's a perfect example, but I have even more perfect examples than that.

32:17I sold Berkshire, I'd say 12 or 15 years ago because I was worried the two men up at the front of the room were going to go off to the great big exchange floor in the sky. I thought, nah, these lads are in their 70s. This can't go on. I'm selling. I'm out of here. So I totally can relate to that Biscoff, our lotus example so here's a question from the bottom of my heart you consume and publish an extraordinary amount of information i believe i do too how do you prevent productivity becoming a substitute for deep thought so you are creating this absolute tidal wave of content but you you know thinking requires silence it requires it requires you to be alone but there's this kind of tension between the constant need to produce content and absorb the information it's a good question it's a very tough question and i think in general the first and for most it's very important to just know yourself yeah so for me for example and everyone has to answer that question for himself i'm a morning person i'm an early bird i'm the most productive in productive in the morning yeah and during the day my productivity goes down and down yeah so knowing that i try to structure my way my day in a very structured way meaning usually at 5 a.m i wake up brush my teeth grab myself a cup of coffee don't check my phone for the first three hours and just reads for the first two hours of the day usually so from 5 until 7 a.m and until from 7 a.m until noon it's usually just analyzing stocks and doing research and because you start with reading the book because you start nobody's awake yet because you start by spending time on your own and learning well that's the most important thing um i think always keep learning is a motto I try to live by.

34:22And that's already done. If you do that the first thing in the morning, nobody can take that away from you. And doing it that way helps me tremendously because during the day, and everyone knows that a lot of things come up along the way. Someone calls you, you get an email, you need to respond, another message, and so on. Everybody else gets up. Yeah, I know that. It's kind of... Getting the most important thing done first thing in the morning, well, I think that's the most important thing for me. and it's probably same for you but i know it's my personality i'm very very stubborn in general so so if you do your homework and it's very it's a little bit linked to some people asking okay with tiny titans for example you talk with management a lot isn't that a bad thing because you can get influenced by management you can fall in love with the company or with management and those kind of things i think it truly depends on what kind of person you are are you a rather or do you think you are a rather rational person or do you someone with a little bit more emotional and forms an emotional connection with people really easily well if you are the latter i think guy spears says that for example i never talk with management because i get a form of bond from a connection and that's well it harms me to make rational investment decisions well that's a very valid point i think or i hope to believe at least for myself that i'm i don't get easily emotionally influenced and you just try to look at the facts and if that's the case i think talk management can be tremendously beneficial especially with the small companies because you obtain information that might be not available somewhere else but it's a question that everyone has to answer for for themselves obviously great a great response um i saw a movie years ago with will smith uh i am legend where he basically is in a zombie apocalypse just him and his dog and you let me think yeah the zombies can come into the daylight and i thought jeez i'd love that now.

36:31Just me and the dog. Just for a few. I could do all my reading, do all my research, have a chat with the dog. You intended Investicon last year, as we said, and you highlighted three magnificent companies, one of which seems to be even more magnificent, which you've unveiled here today. And this year, I'm going to ask you for your three favorite small caps and your three favorite mid to large caps, if that's okay with you, Peter. Okay. There's so many questions I could ask you, but what I'm going to hit you with is a quick fire round. A handful of questions. No answer can be longer than a sentence.

37:08Okay. Okay. Ideally, just a couple of words. Who's your favorite investor? Oh, I don't want to give a boring answer, but I'll say Warren Buffett. Most underrated investing book?

37:24The Art of Execution. most overrated investing metric