1005: People Skills for Analytical Thinkers, with Bestselling Author Gilbert Eijkelenboom

29:05Or if you go to the bathroom, pull out your phone. I do it as well, but I try not to do it as often. And if I don't do that, it creates a space to let the thoughts come and also let them disappear. And it creates so much clarity and self-awareness.

29:20Jon Krohn:Really great tips there for the journaling. I feel like that's something, I don't know, Maybe you have some specific tips on how people could be journaling more effectively or how they could be getting started on that. But especially for the meditation part, is there a particular like program or technique or app or something that you recommend? Many people like Headspace. I love Headspace. This is very beginner friendly. Yeah. I have a Calm subscription. I mean, they're all very similar. There's also Insight Timer, which is kind of YouTube for meditation, which is free. So it's very easy to start with.

29:55And I would say the program doesn't matter as much. Just starting somewhere. Sam Harris, for many people who like more evidence-based or are more analytical, you can check out the app of Sam Harris. I think it's called Wake Up. Not sure. Yeah, Waking Up, I think. Waking Up, yeah.

30:18Jon Krohn:Which is also the name of a great book by him that I love. If people kind of want to, if you want a book to kind of accompany your self-awareness journey, then the waking up book is pretty cool that it has, it kind of, it uses neuroscience and just anecdotes that you can experience yourself to help you understand your mind better. And so for example, something that people find really trippy is there's something called the corpus callosum, which is this huge track of nerve fibers that connects the right hemisphere and the left hemisphere of your brain. And some people, due to really severe seizures, as a last resort, surgeons cut that corpus callosum connecting your two hemispheres.

31:08Jon Krohn:and what happens then is you end up having two separate conscious people living in one body and so if you if you do things like if you put like a piece of paper in between their eyes you can present information to uh you know these two different people and you can get different responses so only one will have access to the mouth and depending on whether you're right-handed or left-handed, um, it would typically be one, you know, one specific hemisphere, but so only one can speak, but you can have the, the other hemisphere can communicate, say by pointing to images or responses on a table. Um, and so you can show that there's these two completely separate people living in the same body.

31:56Jon Krohn:Um, and then it kind of begs the question, well, could, could you actually have even more than two, you know, you know, and yeah it's kind of an interesting yeah interesting thought experiment 100 and and learning about neuroscience is is fascinating to me and and especially for people who are more analytical who might see communication and behavior as i don't know soft skills or secondary i think behavioral science or neuroscience is a great way to also learn about behavior but a bit of more maybe a scientific approach or more learning about the brain and how we make decisions, because this is key, right?

32:40Because all the data work, what is a model or dashboard or analysis or many AI products, they help people make better decisions. So the more we learn about how people make decisions, how business stakeholders make decisions, the more effective we can be and the more impact we can have in our career. There's so many things to learn about the human brain, and it's fascinating.

33:06Jon Krohn:And so presumably, as technical people, like a lot of our listeners are, a lot of us are dealing with graphs and data. And you've previously mentioned that a graph is not just a story. You also need a narrative. And so something that's interesting there is that then having a persuasive narrative on top of data can, of course, you know, it can manipulate or it can be aligned to interest. In fact, there's the famous quote from Mark Twain, there are three kinds of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics. And so how do you, yeah, beyond choosing the right chart or the right data or the right metric, what's the deeper craft there of data storytelling that our listeners should take home with them?

33:58The main struggle or the main, the biggest mistake that many data professionals make is sharing too much complexity and sharing too many details. So the main thing, the narrative should do, the storytelling is taking away the complexity. So that's the start, right? So I would say that's the baseline and it would solve, I would say, 80, 90 % of the problems because many people also know it conceptually put less information on slides but then i walk into big corporations and look work with the data teams and i see slides and it doesn't matter which kind of company or how big they are a lot of information on slides and i know stakeholders will will check out they will lose it because they don't are not the data experts they have not done the analysis so they're very fresh and they check out and pull up pull out their phone and check some emails.

34:53So now to your question, how do you solve that? So the main, so the easiest framework I know is the and, but therefore framework. So many data professionals, they present their data or their model in and, and, and form. What I mean with that, it's like, here's some data, here's some more insights and here's our methodology and here's how we analyze it and here's the decisions we have made along the way. But people are not interested in that methodology. They want to know what's the insights what should we do next and what's the potential impact so instead of presenting and and and a bit like a toddler telling a story so how was your day yeah first this happened and then that happened and it's it's kind of draining right if you're on the other side so that's that's important to uh to realize so instead of and and and we need some tension we need a twist in the story.

35:46That's what every good movie has as well, but we don't need to keep it simple. So instead of saying, Hey, here's data, here's data, here's data. We can say over the last two years, revenue has been quite stable. And, um, and that's why sales seems to be performing well. But in the last quarter, we found that revenue went down and we analyzed it. then we found that we have a lot of new customers, but the returning customers are actually declining. Therefore, recommendation, we need to focus on getting our existing customers to make them return and maybe do a specific recommendation on that if you have it.

36:31And many data people have this misconception, like it's not my job to drive decisions, to do a recommendation or move people to the next action. but actually that's where you become really valuable. As we discussed, that feedback that I got, that's an important piece of the puzzle that you should not miss. So, and, but, therefore.

36:51Jon Krohn:I like that. I've never heard of that before, but it makes a huge amount of sense. Thank you for sharing that with us. You mentioned there how toddlers can have that and, and, and, and how that can become tedious. You already mentioned earlier in the episode and in your book, it might've been the same personal example, but you share how early family dynamics shaped your tendency to avoid confrontation. And that could have been the thing that you were talking about earlier in the episode with your parents. For data professionals or our listeners who come into the workplace with these algorithms that we learned as children, and then we come into the workplace and it can be detrimental to our performance in the workplace.

37:33Jon Krohn:You mentioned one already there where avoiding confrontation can be an issue in the workplace because there can be situations where it's essential. In fact, that's kind of, you're probably not going to be very valuable in your business if you're always just assuming things are correct and going forward with other people's assumptions and executing in that way, critical thought and pushing back, not to be annoying, but to check assumptions and fact check and make sure that people have examined a situation from more angles. Yeah, obviously, and I'm sure there's other kinds of early childhood dynamics that can lead to issues in the workplace as well.

38:15Jon Krohn:Yeah, do you have any guidance for us on how we can identify and interrupt a pattern, an algorithm that we learned as children that isn't helpful for us as adults in the workplace? And I suspect that that will be useful, not just in the workplace, but outside of it as adults as well. yeah 100 yeah so if we take a step back like how these algorithms are formed these personal algorithms right we're not talking about data algorithms here but the algorithm is in our brain because when we're young and we touch an oven it's hot and we burn ourselves and we learn okay next time if i see an oven then don't touch it and this is a simple example how we learn how we learn behavior and what we're supposed to do what we're not supposed to do so maybe one time you had a great idea as a child and you ran to your dad and said hey look at this uh i can do uh i can i can bike with my with one hand up whatever and at that point your dad was busy or didn't pay attention or said something critical then you might learn okay if i speak up or if i have a great idea i maybe i should be cautious maybe not speaking up and i see that with as many people who struggle in social situations they have a lot of these beliefs inside that they're not supposed to speak up or that they're um annoying to other people if they talk too much that's one that i had as well and i sometimes still have um so how we become our self-aware is the steps that we we talked about and getting a lot of feedback from others so not just say hey do you have any feedback because then people say yeah it was great um great presentation but actually may force them to also share something that we might not want to hear, but it's very valuable.

40:01One that I like is what should I keep doing? What should I stop doing? And what should I start doing? Because it's very specific and it will tease out very valuable information. So that's how you become more aware of your own personal algorithms. Maybe in situations you present too many details or you're too long-winded, or maybe you're a bit too focused on the data you might be better off in other people's eyes if you talk a bit show a bit more about yourself your personal life and it doesn't need to be mean doesn't need to be super vulnerable but saying something about your hobbies something i had to learn is like it's actually good even if people don't ask about it specifically tell something that you're passionate about.

40:51You know, I traveled a lot and I like that. So sometimes I bring it up kind of proactively when the situation is there, even when people don't ask me the precise question, hey, do you like to travel? Because I had this belief, like you should answer people's questions and stay within the boundaries. But I've learned that people are there to have fun or to have an interaction, right? It's not just about Q &A in the precise technical way.

41:23Jon Krohn:100%. Yeah. I think, yeah, I try to as much as possible, you know, when things are going well in business, to try to have the meetings be relaxed and have fun and learn a little bit about, you know, what people have been doing in their personal lives. I think especially since the pandemic, I haven't been regularly, you know, I used to pre-pandemic, Like I was always daily in an office and it kind of makes it easy to know what's going on with people's personal lives. Cause you, you know, you chat with, as you have coffee or as people come into the room or whatever, there's lots more opportunities, you know, grab a beer after work, whatever.

41:58Jon Krohn:But, uh, you know, once, when the pandemic happened, I would try to make a point of like, okay, just like a little bit of understanding what's going on with people making jokes where possible. because I think that, you know, you really, obviously it's essential that the critical work gets done, but I think if you can make people feel at ease, then they're more likely to have great insights. They're more likely to push back on you. And I used to be really pleased with myself about how, you know, post-pandemic, I felt like I got a lot of laughs in my data science standup every morning. And the girlfriend that I had at the time, she didn't find me very funny.

42:44Jon Krohn:And she said, the only reason why people are laughing is because you're their boss.

42:52So how was it for you to hear that?

42:57Jon Krohn:Yeah, I mean, we're not together anymore. Not because she said that, but yeah, we just didn't. yeah, we didn't have the same sense of humor for whatever reason. And I think a lot of kind of data science-y people, we do have maybe the same kind of humor. A lot of us are the same kind of people that like the TV show Rick and Morty, which is a show that she did not like. There you go. Then it's hard to make it work out. Exactly. But you're right. Everyone is different, right? And data people have a lot of a lot of things in common and i think one of the things that that they have in common is that they don't like small talk but also on small talk i kind of changed my mind because i was always like it needs to be kind of meaningful if we have a conversation why have small talk but it's not about forcing questions that you're not interested in it's it's about finding something that you're interested in and and then talk about that or and and it doesn't need to be the precise same thing So if you're interested in rock climbing, I don't know anything about rock climbing, but I like sports in general.

44:09So I can ask you questions about the rock climbing, but I can relate to that because it's outside. I love outside. I love outdoor. I love sports. So there's different ways how I can relate to that and still have a meaningful conversation, even though your hobby might be something completely different. And I think that's something people forget. that curiosity is not just important to connect with other people, but also in the data field. Like curiosity is super important. And that's also what many data people have, but it would be valuable if data people would be equally curious about the data as well as the people.

44:51Jon Krohn:Yeah. That's a really good tip. And something that's going to be a little bit risky. because you mentioned really liking sports. So we're about to, at the time of recording, next week, the World Cup is about to start. But by the time your episode comes out, it's going to be June 30th. So a lot of the group stage will have played out. So do you support the Dutch national football team? I do. They're not very good at the moment, but I'm a big football fan. I'm very curious about the upcoming World Cup. I don't have big, big hopes for the Netherlands. I saw this very analytical guy big big hot shot in the financial world who predicted the last two world cups correctly who's going to be the winner so uh and now he published it again a prediction and he predicted the netherlands um but i'm i'm not very convinced really wow yeah well so you have um so you've got japan sweden and tunisia in your group come on you're gonna get out of that group aren't you you're gonna yeah no i think so i think so but the final is um is far what do you think well yeah i don't know it's so tough it's always i think always surprising things happen but i think if i i think i'm correct in saying that the world cup this year has far more teams than ever before yeah and so i think that means the group stage is easier than ever before because if you're if you're a team like the netherlands i mean even you can say they're not that strong but they're still you know the Netherlands I think is like always one of the top 20 teams and usually one of the top 10 so when there's so many groups up to group L what is that 12 groups or something yeah it's huge then yeah I mean yeah the group stage shouldn't be too tough at least and that's why Italy was extra disappointing right that's wild for the third time that Scotland is in and Italy isn't for example yeah well anyway uh i didn't mean to digress so far on sport but some exciting weeks ahead uh we got canada in the world cup where i'm from for the first time in a long time we're definitely not going to win but because we have a few we have a few good players maybe we can get out of the group anyway uh back to the subject at hand um so we've been talking about kind of reprogramming childhood algorithms, something that you talk about in your book is how behavior change often precedes changes in attitude and feelings.

47:27Jon Krohn:And I think the typical way that we think about that is the other way around. I think we would typically think, okay, if I want to change my behavior, first I have to change my attitude. But in your book, you take the opposite track. And so that you suggest changing your behavior in order to rewire how you think and how you feel. And in your book, you talk about one particular practice that you recommend people do for 30 days to rewire their brain for higher emotional intelligence. And so do you know what example I'm talking about? No, I'm not sure. Neither do I exactly, but it's about putting people in uncomfortable situations.

48:12Jon Krohn:So it's an uncomfortable communication habit that a data expert can practice for 30 days to rewire their brain for higher emotional intelligence. Right. Yeah. So how this works is, for example, we talked about speaking up in the train or, or also it applies to raising your hand when someone asks like, Hey, who would, who would like to present this? I was, I was never the person who would wanted to raise their hand, but I yeah I made it the rule I would look like okay let's go let's take as many opportunities as possible I felt uncomfortable but I got feedback and then improved and over time when I did that when I showed that behavior enough times then also my beliefs started to change it's changed from I'm anxious I don't want to do this to actually I'm learning it's it's a bit more enjoyable i would not say it's like give me give me all the stage um and i'll feel comfortable walking on it but i i enjoyed it more and i learned so much so i rewired my brain saying okay maybe this is good this is valuable and it's a bit enjoyable so that's also how i felt speaking up in the train like in the beginning i was like no i cannot do this this is impossible people will hate me and then the beliefs will were like hey people are kind of relaxed about it right um yeah I had two conversations where they said, no, I'm listening to music.

49:36Well, mind your own business. I mean, it's not a fun conversation, but after two minutes, you can almost forget about it. So it takes away some of the tension of the social anxiety and the friction that I really didn't want. I didn't want that friction to happen. It's so much safer to stay in your comfort zone. But if you do more things that scare you, then your beliefs rewire as well. You see yourself in a different way.

50:05Jon Krohn:Nice, yeah. So it's good that we had actually already talked about that specific quiet zone example, but I don't think we had made the link to how its actions change your mind downstream. And so I'm glad that we did get that point out anyway. 100%. You have a background in behavioral economics and obviously you have your history as a professional poker player. And so in quite a few different ways, the data analytics, behavioral economics, the poker, All of these are kind of at an intersection of psychology and data. And now with MindSpeaking, you leverage behavioral frameworks to help leaders navigate biases and build a culture of clear, confident decision making.

50:47Jon Krohn:um so you you discuss things like the illusion of asymmetric insight false consensus effect as barriers to empathy and genuine influence you've also suggested visualizing difficult colleagues as innocent children to inspire empathy so yeah maybe tell us a bit more about these phenomena and if there's like a common thread between them maybe but i'd also just love to hear if you have more practical everyday techniques for analytical thinkers to detect when biases are happening and how they can improve their communication abilities. Yeah. A very common dynamic between data people and business people is that the business people want something fast.

51:32They're pushy. They're usually a bit more extroverted, often also more senior, and they push hard on getting a dashboard or getting a model and saying, hey, just do your magic just just send it in an hour not knowing that it takes weeks to do such a thing and it's very easy to get frustrated with them um but we get frustrated we start thinking we start blaming them we start thinking ah what a jerk or he is totally inconsiderate he doesn't know anything he should take a course about data all those things but it's not helpful right so if we become aware of those thoughts then we can step out of that at least a little bit and start thinking yeah okay it's it's not fun what this person is doing but this person also has a different background he doesn't know about data he he just tries to reach his goals by increasing revenue or decreasing cost and if i am not so triggered by that then it's everything is easier i can do my job better and my day is more enjoyable and the funny thing is that many data people say like i'm i'm very rational i make my choices in a very rational way but learning about behavioral science or learning about neuroscience the opposite is true right we make emotional decisions all the time so knowing that knowing that we get triggered in that situation stepping outside of that makes everything easier because of course you can say like hey this is not how it works it takes days looks like you're underestimating the amount of work it's okay to push back a little bit but at the same time if you're not so triggered if you don't take it so personally it's lighter and you're not worked up for an hour like oh this John is so annoying everything is so much easier so it's good to see those biases in ourself and those algorithms that were triggered and it's but this is life work right it's if I'm more relaxed.

53:35I get triggered less. I see the triggers more of myself, but there's still things I'm triggered about. And I'm not very a person who gets annoyed all the time, but I do make myself difficult sometimes. So two months ago, I felt a lot of stress in my body. And then I get too analytical. I try to problem solve my way out of it. So I'm thinking, okay, maybe I can do some sports. I can go to the sauna. or I see some friends, but I try to go have the most efficient way to get myself out of the stress. But as a result, I stayed in that for days. So analyzing things is very useful, but not always the solution to everything, especially when it comes to communication.

54:22Jon Krohn:Yeah. In your book, you describe the emotional brain as being like the elephant and the rational brain as the rider on top of that elephant. In professional environments where logic is often rewarded over emotion, how can we, you know, respect both of those things? You know, the emotional brain that's kind of the undercurrent driving a lot of what we're doing and that rational brain that's kind of rationalizing what the elephant is doing riding on top. So the first step is always like become aware of it because we've always, everyone had this saying, okay, after work, I'm going to do a workout i'm going to do some sports i'm going to eat healthily and then one hour later you sit on the couch watching netflix uh relaxing it's not a bad way but if you want to commit exactly it's so tempting it's so tempting for that emotional elephant the emotional part of our brain to to just relax even though the rider on top of the elephant might say no no we go that way take on your running shoes so by becoming more aware of that and and getting feedback you yeah you can change that behavior um yeah and that's like behavior is because we we talk a lot about data of course because data is the the the essence of the work but if the data doesn't help people make better decisions, then the value is zero.

55:50So the more we understand about the people and how they make decisions, the more valuable your work will become. So that's also why our training focuses so much on that, how people can understand the business better, how people can get buy-in from stakeholders and how they can present their work in a story, taking out the technical details, because it will land so much better. Um, and as you said, it helps in personal life as well, because if you're in a relationship or with friends, we cannot analyze everything, even though I'm tempted sometimes.

56:26Jon Krohn:For sure. People are hard to understand. I think, yeah. Yeah. And then you also, I think when you, if you're a quite a logical thinker, your analysis kind of might want to make a lot of assumptions about how so-and-so this person at work or at home should behave rationally and this is how it should go. But yeah, the emotional elephant can be taking them somewhere else anyway. So tell us a bit about now, you know, we've talked about your book. You've given us lots of tips for how analytical thinkers can speak their minds more effectively, be more effective in the workplace. Let's talk now a little bit about your actual professional journey.

57:07Jon Krohn:Now, just since the pandemic, having scaled this business to, I think, uh, what did you say? 15 people or 10 people, 10 people. I'm getting the numbers mixed up because it's okay. 10 people and 15 ,000 professionals who have been trained by the 10 of you together. How did you scale, uh, in a way that, you know, you give this impression, maybe it's all the meditation or the journaling but i get this vibe this impression from you that you know you're quite relaxed quite happy so how do you how have you scaled the business to this you know 10 people 15 000 professionals being trained 200 000 people reading uh content that your organization puts out regularly how do you how have you done that and how have you done it in a way where you still seem so zen?

57:56First of all, I'm not always this zen, but I've learned a lot about this. And many entrepreneurs, they say like, oh, it's so hard to build a product or to get the customers or to do the sales. For me, the biggest hurdle is, the biggest challenge is actually my energy management and keeping and stress management. It's not that I'm stressed all the time, but I'm making things complex and I'm, I have this enormous drive and also talking about algorithms. I have, I, I've had this belief for a long time that if I'm not productive, then I'm worthless. Like if, and it was not always very extreme, but it was driving my behavior.

58:42So if I decided, okay, it's kind of the end of the day, it was always this voice in me. Like you can probably do one more hour. you can probably do a few more emails or Chris write down this idea I can be very hard on myself and that's um that's something that is rewarding or that gets done a lot but it's also counterproductive you know what I said two months ago feeling a bit stressed um what I needed is rest and not feeling guilty about it but I was still thinking about okay maybe tomorrow I can have a productive day so back to your question how do we skill the best decision that i've made from the beginning is writing on linkedin because that's how all the customers come i don't like proactive sales and outreach so much it doesn't energize me i like putting out ideas in the world and then see where it resonates and then that's how clients come so data leaders they contact me saying hey hey, I followed your work for six months, 12 months.

59:49Looks like you can help our teams. And then we have a conversation. And then more and more work comes from word of mouth. So we mainly work with big organizations, Adidas, ING, all the big corporations, because they have so many data people. They have the tools, the smart talent, but still they're not making the impact that they want. It's not always leading to all the great work. is not always leading to action or decisions. And that's when they bring us in. So in the beginning, I didn't want to scale. I thought just I'll be a trainer and I'll be the only person. But over time, I also learned that I want to do a bit more.

1:00:29I like the new challenge. And also giving training every day doesn't energize me as much as I thought it would be because I'm also quite introverted. So working with a group, I love it. But at the end of the day, I'm pretty tired. So if I do that every day, it doesn't work for me. So I need more time to recharge, to get ideas, walk on the beach, meet with people one-on-one. And that's the rhythm I like.

1:00:57Jon Krohn:Nice. Well, it certainly seems to be working for you in terms of the stats. I have your LinkedIn profile in front of me right now. It's 75 ,000 followers. Really impressive. Obviously the content that you're creating, the thoughts that you're having when you're walking on the beach are turning into content that's resonating with people. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I totally understand your approach there for my software consulting business. Why carrot this podcast is one of the primary lead generators for that. And, you know, people seeing social media posts, I'm sure about the podcast or things we're doing at the consulting firm or whatever.

1:01:35Jon Krohn:Yeah, it's key. Um, so that definitely makes a lot of sense for people, uh, who want to follow your work after this episode beyond your LinkedIn profile, where, what are, where are places that people should follow you? Yeah. So beyond LinkedIn, you can subscribe to the YouTube channel. It's still very, fairly new, but if you're able to type my name, then you'll find me. So it's, it's, it's Gilbert, Gilbert Eichlenbaum, Gilbert EI, and then you'll probably find me or find mine speaking name of the company. So that's the main thing. I also have a newsletter. and some other free materials on mindspeaking.com, our website.

1:02:18And yeah, we'd love to hear from people. Connect on LinkedIn, send me an email or reach out for their website. There's a lot of valuable stuff there for free.

1:02:28Jon Krohn:Yeah, we'll have all of those links for you in the show notes, of course. So whether you can spell Gilbert's last name, Eich Kullenbaum, there's my attempt. Whether you can spell that or not, you'll be able to find him. Also, mind speaking, one word is very easy to spell. So that's nice. Yeah, true. That's outwild us. Nice. And so usually I ask that kind of social media following question last, but I just kind of felt like I had the flow right into it there from the preceding question. So my final question for you today, Gilbert, is do you have a book recommendation for us other than your own book?

1:03:06the book i really like is a book by matthew dicks story wordy it's not about data it's not about technical skills but it's about storytelling and not just about business but also how you tell stories in daily life and why it matters and how you make them more concise i've learned that storytelling is super powerful it's really fun to learn about it and it makes your work so much

1:03:30Jon Krohn:more impactful what was the name of the book again story writing story worthy oh story worthy worthy i got you i found it yeah yeah uh i was i was typing in story worthy with a d like nothing was coming up yeah story worthy wow yeah it's got a lot of reviews it's a really popular book yeah it's a really good book and and the other one i will shout out is the is the book by daniel kahneman it's very famous but thinking fast and slow thinking fast and slow It will exactly. It will teach you a lot about how we think, why we behave like we behave. And yeah, I cannot emphasize those skills enough for data people.

1:04:10If you want to make an impact.

1:04:11Jon Krohn:Yeah. Listeners, you can check out superdatascience.com slash books for any of the books that have ever been recommended on the thousand plus episodes of this podcast. And Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow is one of the most recommended books ever on the podcast. Cool. Yeah. All right. Thanks for those recommendations, Gilbert. and so generous of you to take time out of your busy schedule and talk to me and talk to our listeners here. Really appreciate you doing it. And hopefully we can get you on again at some point in the future. And actually you may not even know this, but, uh, it was Kate Strashny that, uh, recommended you as a guest and that's what immediately precipitated me reaching out to you.

1:04:53Jon Krohn:I'd been aware of you for a while, but that's cool. Yeah. First saying that led me to, to ask you to be on the show oh great thanks kate for the recommendation leading to this this conversation i really enjoyed it john so thanks thanks a lot for having me for this conversation super episode today in it hilbert heichlinbaum if i am even getting somewhere close to pronouncing his name correctly detailed why no matter how good your model or analysis is it only creates value once people actually use it which makes communication a core data skill rather than an optional extra. He provided us with the and but therefore framework, where instead of stacking detail on detail, you set up a situation, introduce a twist, and land on a clear recommendation, just like every good movie.

1:05:38Jon Krohn:He talked about how research suggests only about 15 % of people are quote unquote self-aware, meaning their view of themselves genuinely matches how others see them and why things like journaling, meditation, and exercise, being aware of your body, help close that gap. He talked about how experiences in childhood install personal algorithms in our adult behavior, like avoiding conflict or staying silent, and how asking people what you should keep, stop, and start doing helps surface these algorithms for us and helps us be more aware of them. If there is something you want to change about yourself, he talked about how behavior change comes before attitude change.

1:06:17Jon Krohn:So doing small, uncomfortable things for a time period like 30 days can actually rewire your beliefs about yourself. All right. As always, you can get all the show notes, including the transcript for this episode, the video recording, any materials mentioned on the show, the URLs for Hilbert's social media profiles, as well as my own at superdatascience.com slash one zero zero five. Thanks to everyone on the super data science podcast team, our podcast manager, Sonia Brejevich, media editor, Mario Pombo, partnerships manager, Natalie Zajski, researcher Serge Masise, and our founder Kirill Aromenko.

1:06:52Jon Krohn:Thanks to all of them for producing another sensational episode for us today, for enabling that great team to create this free podcast for you. We are deeply grateful to our sponsors. We couldn't do this without them. And we couldn't do this without you either. So yeah, feel free to go ahead and support our show by checking out our sponsors links, which are in the show notes. And if you ever want to sponsor an episode yourself, you can get the details on how to do that at johnkrone.com slash podcast. Otherwise, please do help us out by sharing this episode with people who would also like to improve their people skills, review this show on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube, subscribe, but most importantly, just keep on tuning in.

1:07:36Jon Krohn:I'm so grateful to have you listening and I hope I can continue to make episodes you love for years and years to come. Until next time, keep on rocking it out there. And I'm looking forward to enjoying another round of the Super Data Science Podcast with you very soon.