Emergency Podcast: Semi-final thriller

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0:59Issy Wong:Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. Hello and welcome to Tailenders. Thank you for having us on Tailenders. Thank you for doing that, Jimmy and Matching. This is Phoenix White. Greg's not actually with us this week. So I'm going to be playing Greg James. Jimmy Anderson will be... What's that, Matching? Got the substitute teacher. Exactly. So behave yourselves and stop talking at the back. Jimmy Anderson will be playing Jimmy Anderson on this week's episode of Tailenders. Matching Tendorka will actually be playing the part of Andy Zaltzman, because I think you've got stats on the final match-in. And what are you going to do, be peppering the episode with stats this week?

1:37Yeah, just whenever I feel in the mood, I'll drop something in which I think is relevant to the final, which we've just literally, minutes ago, finished watching. Exactly. And Izzy Wong's with us. Izzy, how are you doing? I'm good, how are you? Lovely to see you, Izzy. Oh, sorry. I'm at the back of the class. it's actually quite hard isn't it substitute teaching would you just see me at the end please jimmy and as matching says it we've just finished watching the semi-final literally this second in india where england nearly pulled off a miraculous run chase they were set two five four and they got two four seven jacob bethel hitting 100 i think he was run out of 102 odd sharky by the end something like that you watched it Jim you've been training or watched it uh yeah I watched it yeah yeah it was I thought it was a really good game actually I thought obviously a really good wicket and maybe just I'd say India's bowlers just edged it for them I think it was the 17th over that Bumra bowled it went for six yeah that probably just swayed it left England a lot to do 40 off two overs is a big ask I know they got within seven but the game had gone pretty much in that last over Samson played brilliantly but I just thought England's bowlers didn't quite nail it you know I think that's probably been like I've heard a lot of people say that's probably England's area where you have to worry a little bit if they're going to win this tournament that the bowling's got to be spot on Jack's had another good game with the ball but you know just taking wrong options at wrong times, I thought, a little bit, or not executing.

3:18Samson in particular gave him quite a bit of width, which he loves. So, yeah, I thought India's bowlers probably just edged it and deserved to win that game. Jim, you made your feelings very clear on the last episode about how you weren't enjoying the aesthetic spectacle of the T20 in the subcontinent. The spinners, the rotating, the strike. Just interested to know what your thoughts are on this one, because it was effectively a tee off on a very slow pitch where it seemed like the only options really with the ball is bowl slower or bowl beautiful in swinging Yorkers really where you weren't getting hit for six or four did you enjoy it today because it was fun wasn't it it was a good game to watch I did enjoy it I think what I enjoyed the most was Pandia and Arshdeep's opening spell they bowled definitely three maybe four overs at the start swinging it both ways both of them swinging it both ways yeah and that is you know it's really difficult so I think that is what I like to see and if the spin comes into play in the middle then fair enough and you know great but you know we've seen I just feel like this tournament we've seen too many spinners opening the bowling and when the ball swings like we saw tonight you know I think that's what well that's personally for me that's what I love watching.

4:33That's a very good time to bring Izzy Wong on because Izzy the last time you were on the show you were moaning about spinners opening the bowling and taking the shine off of the ball would you uh firstly agree with jimmy's sentiments there with will jacks opening the bowling for england i think he did i actually

4:47Issy Wong:have to admit i was training so i didn't see the first innings that's just as well i did hear all about on tms very on brand the opening spell of pandir and archdeep and how much of a difference it made having the ball moving in the power play i think especially on flat pitches like in mumbai and when obviously it's a very good batting track, getting some sort of lateral movement, especially at the start of the innings and that power play is like crucial and actually if you can do a bit of damage there, it's so hard for teams to come back from that as we saw today. So Izzy, you trained and then ran back to watch?

5:22Issy Wong:Yeah, I ran all the way back from Loughborough. No, I drove back and listened to it on TMS and then I watched the last five overs on the telly. I had a weird feeling, Izzy, like for England to sort of, that was almost the best performance, I think England have a World Cup and it was sort of heartbreaking in some ways because I felt like they just peaked. They felt like a fully functioning unit, didn't they? Just at the moment when they were knocked out. Well, I think anytime you score 240 in a knockout World Cup match, you know, you'd like to think you're going to have a pretty good go at winning it.

5:52Issy Wong:But yeah, one of those days, I guess, where a lot of things went wrong, but enough things went right as well to kind of giving it a good good crack um sharky actually messaged me uh during the game and i can always rely on sharky to uh send me cricketing cliches during a game of cricket and he sent me simply catches win matches and i think what sharky was referring to there is that harry brooke dropped samson when samson was only on 10 or 12 so he went on to get i think 80 odd one of the best 80 odds i think i've ever seen fantastic knock but obviously he's dropped by brooke and And then really interestingly, Brook then has an absolute steeple from Axel Patel taken off him.

6:35And I think that sort of swings at those little moments, Jim, in the field. That sort of swings it, doesn't it? Because Brook's dropped Samson. So he has a deficit almost personally without a 70 for dropping that catch. Starting a minus 70.

6:47Issy Wong:Yeah, exactly. And he gets whatever he's got, five or six. Yes, I think T20s in particular, fielding's huge. and you know Harry Brook's one of the best catchers it does happen it's one of those things when it's not your day it just happens like that it was a pretty simple catch you'll catch that 99 times out of 100 today he dropped it unfortunately it was in a World Cup semi unfortunately the batter went on to get 80 odd I think he might have even hit the next ball for 6 as well he did it's the worst feeling in cricket that is so yeah I felt for Joffre Archer as well at that point because I know walking back to his mark after that 6 goes into the third tier of the stands he's like you know it's just one of those one of those days and then yeah India's fielding was I don't think India's fielding has actually been that great throughout the World Cup sort of been okay but today I thought they were absolutely bang on that catch was unbelievable by Aksar and it took a few well-measured catches throughout the one to get rid of current towards the death was a you know it's always tricky when you're on the the boundary rope but took that quite quite nicely and it also the ground fielding was good and a couple of runouts in there as well so I think India's all round just generally better today i think just just enough better than england and as you said it's probably england's best game of the tournament but unfortunately not good enough match and give me a perspective on it where were you watching from what are your thoughts and feelings i watched it the whole game because i'm committed and like is he uh yeah i watched it with uh with handsome chris who say come stay for a couple days go cheers go cheers that's chris and yeah we i I thought it was all over because we were looking at the stats before.

8:26I was going to come up with some stats later on based on the final. And Sharky texted me saying England will not win this after about the first hour. That goes to show the win vis was not looking good. But England did great, I thought. Do you know what? Do you think people will keep that? Do you think Brendan McCullum will? There was a lot of chat on social media whether if we go out here, whether Brendan McCullum will keep his job. I'll put that to Izzy in a second. but I think really interesting about that game is we kind of needed a heartbreaking loss in which we got on their side and I do think something in the heart has just switched from that performance like I feel like they can be very proud of the way they chase that down in Indian conditions and I did have a sense when they were chasing 2-5-4 that suits that team where they just there'll be no sense of anything else but the freedom just to go after basically trying everything you just got to hit everything for 6 or 4 for 6 and they so nearly did it and the image at the end of Jacob Bethel being run out and he just stays for a moment on the ground.

9:26There was something like gently iconic about it. He felt a bit like, oh, I'm on a journey here that starts here with Jacob Bethel. Izzy, I'll put that question matching just raised there, that brutal press question. Do you think this will be good for Brendan's tenure in terms of how we see it now?

9:42Issy Wong:It's the one you don't want in the press conference, that is, isn't it? I'm not asking it to you. Just take it game by game. I think there's no shame to losing in a World Cup semi to India in Indian conditions in front of a packed out crowd in Mumbai I think when you drill it back to that could have held on to catches and brought 250 down to 220 yes, could have maybe bowled a bit better and again got them down to 220 yes but they've given it a bloody good go and I don't think there can be any sort of complaints yeah they'll give it a bloody good go that's on the official reviewer give it a bloody good go so I think if I was in that dressing room I think obviously you're disappointed because you've been knocked out of a World Cup but if you look at how they went about that game and how they went about that chase particularly you can't have any complaints you really can't apart from Jim the one thing you might be able to complain about is the openers have had a really difficult time Joss and Phil Salt it's only Iman that have had a lower average in this tournament than those two.

10:50There was a feeling like, oh, this might, he hit his first ball through cover, which Atherton actually said, that's the best shot I've seen him play all tournament. He felt like, oh, maybe Joss is going to click right at this moment. What's the future there, do you think, Jim, for Joss and that partnership in general? I don't know, really. Some difficult questions flying around, aren't there? Big questions just circling. We're axing everyone. And what about the kit, man? Do you think his job's safe? Yeah, f*** him off. Yeah. I didn't like the design of it. He needs to go. Just as it's scored many runs.

11:29Yeah. Yeah, I think the frustrating thing about T20 cricket is that this can happen. Yeah. But generally, it's a strange thing when it happens to both your openers. it's quite understandable for one player to be slightly out of form and not have a great tournament but usually someone's there to pick up the pieces and in previous games it's been the middle order that's picked the pieces up Bethel, Brook, Jax has had a great tournament they've been there doing that Curran's chipped in with runs as well so yeah, it's just unusual they're both class players I love both of them I love watching them when they're in full flow and I can see exactly what's going to happen they're both going to go on for a week or two, and then they're going to have unbelievable IPLs.

12:18Back to India, and they're going to churn runs out, which will be frustrating, but that's the nature of the game. It's difficult in World Cups if you don't start well. The games come fairly thick and fast, and then all of a sudden you're in a semi-final and you've not got much to show for it. You've not got double figures, and you're expected to go out there and win England a game, and it's really difficult, even for an experienced player like Joss, even for someone like Phil Salt, who's won multiple IPLs and a brilliant T20 player. It's just one of those things, it can happen. And then I think also doubts creep in.

12:54You're watching them play shots that maybe they wouldn't play if they're in form. You're trying to battle your way out of bad form and it can be a really difficult place to do that on the big stage in a World Cup. Do you know what, with T20, Craig, as well, if you're out of form and you're batting in the top there, even if it looks like you're scratching around for like three balls, that feels like a very long time. So it must be such a brutal place to be out of form. And I always feel with Joss that... Sorry, this f***ing computer behind me is doing all sorts. Leave that in. I always feel like with Joss that...

13:28I'm just going to unplug it. Sorry. I always feel with Joss that he has the look in his eyes. Do you get this match in where when he's out of form, you wouldn't need to know. you can just see he looks a little bit yeah lost in his eyes he has this sort of obviously he's probably the greatest one-day cricket we've ever like England have ever had but he just has this he suddenly switches to feeling like a sort of like a lost sheep sort of thing and do you know what I mean he gets that sense yeah he's also his personality he's got he seems like quite a kind gentle yeah soul doesn't he yeah and he when he locks in then I don't think that's done him any injustices.

14:03Izzy let's quickly talk about Brumma you and Brumma because obviously you have the same job when you watch him bowl at the death dare do you ever think like what you would be bowling because there was a moment in that when we look like we're chasing that down we need 45 or three overs but Brumma's bowling from the third from last over and he bowls about four unplayable in swinging Yorkers in the over they can do nothing with just quickly it gets said all the time would you wholeheartedly agree that he is the best bowler in the world and secondly do you learn stuff when you're watching him do that across all formats yeah I don't think there's any

14:37Issy Wong:players across T20 ODI and Test cricket that have been as successful for as long a period of time as he has and then obviously you add his franchise record with Mumbai Indians on top of that and it's a it's a pretty good resume so I think what he did towards the end was he just kept it so simple and he just ran in and bowled, like you said, unplayable in-swinging Yorkers. But so many times, you know, we saw Arshdeep Singh running in and trying to ball wide line, bowling slower balls, bowling all sorts and the ball started going to everywhere whereas there just felt like this sense of calm when Boomer had the ball in his hands that everyone knew what he was going to run up in bottle.

15:16Issy Wong:But the beauty of a Yorker is that when you get it right, like you say, it's unplayable. And I think, you know, Yorkers get bad reps sometimes because when you get it wrong, they go f***ing miles. Yeah, Joffre did that a bit, didn't he? But the clarity he had of just running in, and that's not just he's decided to run in and bowl Yorkers, that's because he's played 15 years of IPL, and every year he just runs in at the death and bowls Yorkers, and that's what he does. And then World Cup semi comes along, and he's absolutely mastered it. So I think just learning that clarity of, actually, what am I really good at here?

15:48Issy Wong:And what have I got the best chance of executing? And he absolutely nailed it. Do you have a sense sometimes where, because when you're watching it, sometimes it feels like you're watching it on two speed when people are hitting the ball everywhere. Like even on the field, does it feel like you're kind of in quicksand to think about your plans and what's going on? Because I can imagine it feels like it's moving so fast when you're in the middle of it. The closest thing I can relate it to was the 100 Eliminator last year. We bowled first and Davina Perrin got 100 off like 40 balls. And I just remember, because in the 100 you obviously only change ends every other set but it felt like we were changing ends as fast as we do in a normal t20 but the ball was still going everywhere it's so easy as a bowler to get caught up and to rush it and to rush your skill and to actually not just take that second to speak to your mate who's just bowled right like what isn't working because we're getting whacked here what isn't working and then trying to problem solve on the spot a little bit it can be like you say it feels like when the ball is flying everywhere it's on times to speed but actually you've got more time than you think to just take a breath and I think India they ran out of time didn't they they had to have four in for the last over yeah yeah and it shows that actually is that a price you're happy to pay I mean in the men's game five out we only get four out in the women's game which means that having that extra one in is a bit more restrictive but actually if that's the price to pay for being really clear on your skills then maybe that's sort of a payoff that we need to think about more as opposed to just rushing through so we're on time yeah I think the thing about bummer is I'm not sure like i look at him and think what could i i don't think you can learn anything like he's he's an absolute freak his skills are unbelievable yeah like there's not one bowler in the world in any format men or women who can bowl six yorkers out of six and absolutely yeah yeah but you know even one of the yorkers he bowled in that his last over was a slow ball So he's nailed five fast Yorkers and one slow ball Yorker.

17:46You can't hit them anywhere. And England did really well to get six off that over, I thought. Like they're squeezing the ball out. And they actually played it pretty well because they thought, we know that we can't get boundaries off. It's going to be really hard to get boundaries off him. So we'll just take our chances against the other two at the other end. And they saw at the end that, you know, Adube bowling the last over went for 22 with Joffre smacking him. I know the game was gone then, but he was trying to bowl Yorkers and missing by a decent amount. So it's just a ridiculous skill. So in wide ball cricket, there's no one, or certainly T20 cricket, there's no one better than him.

18:17He's an absolute freak. Do you think there's ever been anyone better than him, Jim? Malinga? Yeah, Malinga's probably the only one off the top of my head who could actually nail those skills. Malinga also had a similar, because it was a strange action, the slow ball comes out really differently and really strangely. It's hard to pick up and can defeat you in the air. Yeah, Bunra bowling a slow ball to Harry Brook first ball was genius as well. He threw the shot before the ball had got to him and he then just skies it. It was an amazing catch, but he beat him in the air. You saw him take a hand off the bat, Harry Brook.

18:53He'd just been deceived by it. So it's incredible what he can do. If you could bowl someone 10 overs in a T20, you would, because he could swing the ball even more than Arshtiep and Pandia were at the start of the game. So he could bowl three in the power play, and then he could bowl two in the middle and at the death as well. He's just a freak. But I thought, again, the captaincy was great. They used him really well. In years gone by, you might save someone like him for the last over and that's gone well out the window. They knew the game needed to be won at that point, the 17th over, or 18th over, I think it was, sorry.

19:27Issy Wong:Those last two overs, they went for eight and six, didn't they? And when you win a game, that high scoring by just seven runs, that is literally the difference right there. if those those overs are bowled by anyone else you know they've gone for 12 and 14 and then it's you know then but then we're going to a super over we're going to a super over do you know what um your analogy there jim just reminded me of that i never listen to you know you don't can't learn anything boomer i would never listen to jimmy hendrix because it's just too good yeah what am i going to take from it yeah i'm not going to be like oh i'll do that because you literally can't even think to do it so i was thinking about relationship with bobber a little bit yeah if if i so saying from this or say when i was 30 or younger when i was younger if i bowled 10 000 yorkers in practice i still wouldn't be able to do it as well as he does right like he's that good yeah it's that natural for him and it's he's that good how do you how do you do that out of 10 000 Out of 10 ,000?

20:30Yeah. Next one's going to Emirates Old Trafford,

20:35Issy Wong:where you can bowl 10 ,000 Yorkers. Is it your answer and matches? Our newest Comet Relief challenge is me bowling 10 ,000 Yorkers. I think you've nailed 9 ,200. Nah. I'd be happy with 50%. That's 5 ,000? Yeah. That's 5 ,000 Yorkers you've just nailed for Comet Relief. So you're saying if you watch Jimi Hendrix and play guitar for 10 ,000 hours or like? No, I'm saying there's no. There's just no way you could get to that. I often have that. I have that relationship often with music. It's like I find I'm subconsciously attracted to music where I feel like I'm learning something that I can take from it.

21:17So quite often if there's something that is absolutely extraordinary, like an unbelievable singer or guitar player, I might not actually listen to it that often because I don't feel like I'm absorbing that much stuff that I can actually use. Does that make it that way? Yeah, yeah. It makes me like I'm crazy. But you know what I'm saying? Like, I can't really take anything. Exactly. That's what I've done through my career is I'll watch bowlers and go, right, what can I take from what he does, his action, and try and adapt that to me. And then I'll go in the nets and go, no, I can't do that. Just rack it.

21:47But I still watch them, though. Yeah, yeah. I still watch these people. Felix, you won't watch them. out of jealousy and resentment I won't even I've got visions of you going to watch

22:00Issy Wong:the cricket our bum was on and I'm just not, I'm going to close my eyes get the paper out can't watch it Izzy, what bowler in the world do you think you've taken most from? it's a good question, it's a good question thank you so much there's so many that you look at and you watch when you grow up and you take different things from them whether that's tactically, whether that's technically, whether that's death skills, whether it's swinging the new ball and stuff. Obviously, Jimmy's just a touch older than me. I grew up watching him playing Red Bull cricket, swinging it around corners. When I was a kid, I was like, I'd love to be able to swing it.

22:39Issy Wong:So then you go into your next session and you try and swing it. And it's not the same and it's nowhere near as good. But when you're 10 and you're watching it on the telly, it's like, I want to be like that, I want to do that. and then you get a bit older and you understand the thinking behind the skills as well and being able to play alongside Catherine Siverbrunt and how she managed the games. I found that really interesting, her perspective of managing, particularly the ODIs I was alongside for. She ran a drink round to me once and said, what on earth are you doing? Just stop doing this. It was in her head so clear, but in my head it was like, oh, I'm seeing it differently.

23:16Issy Wong:You're trying to learn that mindset as well. You see people like Shabnamishmail running in and bowling quick and it's like trying to take that passion for bowling fast and trying to nick that from her. And if you can nick like 10 % of other people's super strengths and try and use it yourself, then hopefully you can try and get better. But that's what I love about franchise cricket now. And I'm not sure if Jim's found this since kind of coming out the England side, you're suddenly in different environments and you're meeting different people and you're playing against different people. there's so much you can learn off like just different people and how they go about the game yeah i love to i find it fascinating because there's always someone no matter how many people you talk to there's always someone where you go i've never really thought about it like that and it's sort of something then can click with you but i was yeah i was the same growing up i was i remember playing for burnley like under 17s or something and i bowled the whole game as darren goff like in my head i was bowling exactly like darren goff obviously i wouldn't have looked anything like him.

24:13But yeah, I always think that you're trying to look for little bits to take on board. I did have a point about the Jimi Hendrix thing but it's gone. He can come back to you. He'll come back. Do you remember when we went to watch Felix play with Maccabees in the summer? Yeah, I didn't actually listen

24:30Issy Wong:because there wasn't anything I could learn from it. So I'm just something else in my head. There's nothing here for me. Nah. This is a little bit of opportunity. I'll just turn it off because someone turns us down.

24:44what I was going to say is we were chatting about you mentioned then I would I had a few drinks but I remember you saying I've always wondered whether I can like text Jimmy being like get a little bit of advice here and there I was like do it definitely take Jimmy I would love that yeah well

24:57Issy Wong:have you not done that yet is he no I haven't I haven't really probably reached out yeah well let's do that now Jimmy if Izzy does need to text you for advice anytime very good there you go how many texts a week is she allowed 10 ,000 just until I get it right here at the top of your mark every Yorker I've bowled another ball it didn't quite go I just remember what I was going to say actually I think I watch people so even greater detail than just their bowling he's wearing a sweatband halfway up his arm or something might try that or the waist oh his shirt's untucked or these boots that he's wearing do you fee ever or when you when you first start playing guitar yeah or you first went on stage did you know how to hold a guitar did you say did you think i'm gonna hold it like jimmy hendrix obviously not but you've made a great that's a great analogy you made because i think you do make a mistake when you first start being in bands but you think the clothes are gonna make you do the thing so you're like if I dress or look like this yeah and then you realize quite quickly like oh that doesn't actually make like if you haven't practiced it's not gonna like magic them up into you but I think more probably more with music and performance it is about visual presentation or maybe bowling's like that as well with the paint you know like I guess like because you're sort of Because the way you hold yourself, the way you present is part of the thing, isn't it?

26:36So like Alan Donald with the war paint on his nose and cheeks. I thought if I do that, I'm going to look so angry. I'm going to scare everyone out. They don't even need to bowl the ball. They just keep the stumps over. Walk off. Have you ever done that? I've never seen you do that. I used to. You're probably too young to remember when I used to wear it on my face. Did you? Oh, yeah, you did. In hot countries, I have. Yeah. Not done in England. This is summer at its peak. Whole Foods Market Summer Fruit Fest is your invitation to eat the season. Fresh, organic, and bursting with flavor. Start your day with peaches and organic blueberries and yogurt.

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