Jamie George

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1:11This is nice. Happy to do this. Yeah. All right, here we go. I've missed this. In a way. Okay. No, I haven't. I was just doing a partridge. I've watched a lot of partridge. Have you watched the new partridge? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's some of the best ever. It's amazing. Oh, isn't it? I didn't know it was out. Oh, come on. First episode. Let's just start with that, shall we? Hello and welcome to Tailenders. Oh. What? Is that the intro? Well, I just thought we could use the... It was real, wasn't it? Oh, go on then, let's do it. That was it. No, that was it. We're in. Okay. We're in. Hello and thank you for having us on Tailenders.

1:50I'd do it properly because I need to feel like... Hello! There we go, Lesper. Hello! Welcome to Tailenders. This is Chief Horse Craig James. Over there is Jimmy Anderson. Felix White. You've already heard from him. You heard from Sharknade in the movie. He was even on before he'd said, was he faded up or not? So that was nice, wasn't it? We can confirm that he is faded up and he has watched the new Partridge and everyone should watch the new Partridge because it's unbelievable. Jimmy, isn't it great? I've not seen it. Oh, come on! F*** sake! I'm waiting for a quiet couple of hours to watch it.

2:17Okay, do it after this. Do it after you've done a podcast. So welcome to Tailenders. We have loads to talk about. Thank you for having us on Tailenders. You're welcome. Sorry we weren't here last week, but we are here. this week now. You were there last week. I listened to your show last week without me involved in it. I think that was the week before. I actually don't really know where I am. Because I've been in America, I've got confused and you are too. Sharky, do you want to be faded up? I'm faded up? Yes, you're faded up. Yes. It was recorded the week before, but it did go out last week. Oh, right.

2:50It did go out last week because I listened to it and I do think that's the only 10 endings I've done, but I haven't been on it. Or maybe one of them. and it was so weird first you can just say but it was a very good show it wasn't as good as it should have been it was almost too good for me to be comfortable with it was very good and the second the second one is it was so weird because i was hearing your voices and i was like i was trying to interact with you because i'm so used to hearing the things you say and then i was talking and it was like what do you mean you haven't heard me it was like when my mic's down it was like a weird dream.

3:27Oh, that's hot. Well, we missed you greatly, obviously. I missed you guys. It was one of the best we've ever done that. Oh, come on. Well, no, we said that in the No Felixes group, but don't bring that into the... There's just a magic in the air. I don't know what it is. There was something missing and yet something felt like it added. It's just a nice... I don't know what it was. It's just a good energy. Anyway, we're all... We're back here today. No matching at the moment. Is matching going to come later, Sharky? Am I faded up? Yes, you're faded up. Yes, you're faded up. Matching's on holiday this week.

4:00Oh, isn't it? Back next week. Okay. Let's crack on with Tear Lenders. We are going to do some little yearns a bit later on. We want to do some correspondence of uncertainty. Great. We also are desperate to talk about Chris Wokes and his news of retiring from international cricket. But first, we have a really genuinely brilliant guest. A really good guest who has come to us because he is a tail ender. We've been wanting to make this happen for a while now, but he's very busy doing rugby things. But he does listen to tail enders. Well, he says, I've heard he does. We said he does before. We need to now welcome a rugby legend, a Saracen legend, an England legend, a Lions legend.

4:45It's Jamie George. Welcome to Tail Enders. Hello. Thanks for having me. Hello. Hello. Hello. hello hello now it's jamie judging by the hello and the thank you for having me it that does add up to you are a regular listener jamie how when did you start listening to it i reckon early doors you know like i have to admit i have to admit my wife is a bigger nose than i am really she listens every week yeah that's great what's what's her name we should give her a shout out aty katie go well Katie she's actually said that I've ruined it for her because she obviously can't listen to this one to this one yeah does she not like listening to you do interviews she just doesn't like listening to me full stop no but I do think I think it's important actually to not necessarily be in a relationship with a with a mega fan I think that would be you know you do need some grounding you know it's probably the opposite yeah I'm certainly grounded let's put it that way.

5:48Yeah, I'm with you sometimes with Bella. It does go too far the other way, I think. Sounds like you hate me.

5:57So you've just been training today. How was it? What's been going on? Yeah, all good. This is my first week back playing, so it's round three of the pressure this week. But the lights guys have got to have like a certain amount of time off. So we're playing Harlequins this weekend. All good. We've won last two games, so so far, so good. My dad, Big Al, is an enormous rugby fan. I think he's probably rugby just above cricket. And I told him that you were on today and he said, he's one of the best hookers of all time. He's one of the all-time greats. You've got, isn't it, record caps you've got, isn't it, over 100 for England?

6:35Yeah. Are you the most capped? No. No? Most capped hooker, maybe? Most capped hooker? Yeah, we'll go with that. but he's really really excited can you tell us about your first of all your rugby early days but and how you chose this over cricket and was there a moment where you thought oh could do a little bit of cricket what was it always going to be rugby oh i'm not going to say i'm not going to be one of those blokes that says he could have done it all you know i just loved it i just like yeah obviously and i just loved it i like cricket was always a big part of my life growing up playing a lot of cricket still do actually like um the warm-up today at surrey's every day we play cricket one arm one bounce so it's uh we've got a hell of a buy-in um with the incredibles and a quick cricket that um jamie i've got a quick question for you before you carry on jamie i've just because we're we're sort of like um cricketing mystics on tail enders and what we can do is just by looking at you we can tell you what you do at cricket yeah go on then it's one of two things you you either bat free and bowl off spin or you bat six and wicket keep probably neither oh for f***s sake go on then what was it no I like I used to open the batting like I was like I was an average cricketer like average cricketer I loved it at school I went to school with Sam Billings so me and Sam me and Sam shared a room at school so yeah me and him are close I just used to watch him from the other end and like take singles and not be very good hmm okay was there was there ever a time when you two were similarly matched like no 12 okay no no like we were under like I know you're desperate for me to be a really good cricketer like I'm I've just you know I really like you I enjoy the game I played a lot when I was younger and still follow it massively but I'd like you know I'm not gonna claim to be that guy you know which I think that guy is actually Sam Billings yeah exactly he had trials he's good at everything he's good at everything was he good at rugby no no so soft was he so soft but like fair play he's a good footballer in fairness.

8:42He's good at it. He's good at paddle. He's like, he's one of those annoyed blokes. You mentioned the sort of recovery from the Lions. Congratulations. What a thing. I mean, so you went as a, you went as a injury, injury replacement, but you, you, you did play and you obviously part of the, part of that amazing victory. What was, what was it like out there? Talk us through it and, and talk us through about Maru Itoji being the captain and everything. It was so many great stories knocking around, weren't there? Yeah, it was great. And like Maru's, Maru's had a hell of a couple of years, obviously taking on the England captaincy, and the Lions and like he's just like he deserves it all but those Lions tours are unbelievable but you like everything you hear is the absolute truth everyone gets on so well everyone is I guess like you go into a tour like that you know you four countries coming together people you play against all the time actually everyone sort of buys into the fact that we need to spend a lot of time with each other so like Ellis Genge for example is like the most miserable person in England camp ever he just takes himself off to his room you never see him he never socializes that he like really bought into spending a lot of time being in the team room getting to know people and that balance of like i've obviously i was a part of the test team so we really enjoyed australia actually we had a good time i bet um a quick question is ellis genge the sort of jimmy anderson of i knew i knew you were gonna say that of the lions i don't know what you mean well Okay, I'll put it in a different way.

10:03If you had a day off and you all booked in to go and visit the Dalai Lama, do you think Ellis Benshaw would go and meet him? There would be no chance of him going to meet the Dalai Lama, but I'd be crawly probably. I'd be there. Yeah, you'd be there. Crawly. I thought he said you'd be crawling. I wouldn't be crawling. I don't love him that much. I'd be crawling. I'd crawl up the f***ing mountain to get there. To see a Dalai Lama. not only will I go I'll f***ing crawl there okay

10:38all right then so let's let's let's pivot to cricket and what was the first bit of cricket you watched and you thought this is a bit of me what's your era who's your who's your nails opening batter who is the bowler that you would have loved to have faced what was the era like the year is like the golf era I suppose but like I guess like I was 15 2005 Ashes Wow So like That was That was mega Obviously like That was probably Like the peak Of my playing career If you could call it that So like I loved him I loved You know I followed I followed England I followed Obviously Kent Through Sam But probably When I was younger I spent a bit more I grew up in Hertfordshire So obviously No proper team there But went to Essex And off Sort of Napiers Of the Wound And Alistair Kirk And all that Like it was It was good fun And like You know Obviously rugby Rugby stops When cricket starts It's like perfect transition into and enjoying it, you know?

11:34Yeah, the Darren Goff era. That's a great, I know Jimmy's eyes lit up when you said Darren Goff. He was just, oh, it's so fun. I'm just, I idolise him. As like, as a rugby player as well, like obviously like, I just love it when cricket sort of revs up a bit. Do you know what I mean? When it gets a bit confrontational and like bowling, like fast bowlers, give it a bit more like, you know, that's, that's a bit of me. You like it when it gets more like rugby? Basically, yeah. Jim, do you, Jim, do you play rugby, Jimmy you did you play rugby ever no well as oh I know we chat actually well yeah because you're my book mate I played one ever one ever game of rugby at school yeah I wasn't very big at school but I was quite quick so my mate who was in the rugby team and the cricket team was like you should come and play and just come on for the last 10-15 minutes and play on the wing you won't get bothered like it'll be fine so I came on for the last 10 minutes this game within seconds of being on the field, this giant is running at me.

12:30And I've never played the game. I've not had any training or anything. I don't know how to tackle him. So I just stick an arm out and he just goes through it like a turnstile, literally just embarrassing. And then my moment came like with minutes to go. I'm on the wing, get the ball, like an open run to the try line. And the field had a little bit of a dip on it. And I think my legs were still a bit jelly-like from that nervous encounter I'd just had. and I'm sprinting towards the try line, like 40 metres short, 30 metres short, about 20 metres short, my legs just buckle underneath me, like on this little dip in the field.

13:08And I just curl up in a ball on the floor waiting for everyone just to pile on. And then after that, I was like, I'm never playing this game again. Yeah. It was a field fall. It was. Who put that dip there? I do think that rugby is the worst game if you don't want to play it and you're forced to. I think it's the app because you just, the one thing you have to do in rugby is be confident and committed to it. It's so, I think it's my dad's greatest shame that I just, similarly, I played one game and went, I'm not doing that. You get cold and hurt. Yeah, yeah. I was captain of the D team once. Right.

13:49Congrats, congrats. Thank you so much. And obviously I love rugby and I still do because dad sort of forced me to. But I found myself captain of the D team and one of the games we went to this really posh school. So it might even have been Haleybury, you know. It might even have been there. And it was a really horrible, wet, cold, rainy day. And the only thing I remember about it is that I had to tell this kid called Adam, Adam Ruse, he's running the wrong way to score a try. And I had to chase him. I had to chase him to be like, no, we're going the other way. and I just and I just thought I just I hate this so much you were captain because you knew the rules is that yeah I knew the rules and I was keen and I played cricket so they thought oh well he'll one of the worst things ever I actually don't know I don't know how I love watching it but I just it's the one sport I'm like I just would hate to do that I've got a question for Jamie I'm like what amazes me is when more towards the back end of a game when you're obviously feeling it you've been through a lot when you've got to like your body's sore potentially how do you get yourself into that place just to to make those last ditch tackles or you know when you're just constantly getting met like is it is it just you know used to it's part of the job or do you have to do something mentally to try and get yourself there you definitely have to dig in it'd be the same with you guys like you have to train your mindset for the hardest moments i suppose and like in a test match like the big thing for us sort of heavier forwards is it's like legs get so heavy and the pace of international rugby now is is fast and like some of these wingers are rapid and the pace plays is quick so like we obviously train for it and like the brutal thing about training like to be honest like the games are genuinely easy compared to how we train like at least one session a week now is sort of they'd say they talk about it being like above test match intensity oh my god the running and the physicality and the amount of collisions that you have per minute is 120 of what a test match would look like and that's like and then you get through that on the Wednesday and you're like anything that comes on Saturday is an easy game because at least like on Saturday it's a twickenham it's in front of 80 ,000 people like you know the adrenaline gets going even though your legs are going a bit but the worst is the Wednesday if I'm completely honest You mentioned adrenaline sorry Greg just quickly do you feel pain when you get hit hard?

16:07Have you got so much adrenaline running for you but you don't feel it till after games or do you feel pain on impact when you're in a game? Like not like it sort of depends like obviously if you're actually injured then yeah you'll feel pain but you don't ever feel it as bad as honestly the day after a game is the worst like you've just been hit by a bus it's horrendous and like and then you just get in the cycle so like i'm really looking forward to starting this season to get in the cycle so you play on a saturday you come into training on a monday your training's not too intense but you're still still picking yourself up you get yourself back to feeling relatively normal and then the tuesday session is the high intensity one and then you sort of feel rubbish again on a wednesday train again Thursday and the cycle repeats.

16:45So I'm really looking forward to going back to it. Obviously you like wake up and you're like, it must be Wednesday. It feels like a Wednesday. It's such a brutal sport. The dedication is mind blowing. Jim, I was going to ask, does that chime with you? Does that happen at sort of international level where you would ever train harder than you would play, than you would sort of get to in a match situation? I'd say international level. Yeah. Yeah. county cricket you can't do it because the games are just like so thick and fast you're literally trying to recover in those three days or two days between games but international cricket yeah i remember that the training like above test match intensity rang a bell with the 2010-11 ashes which we went away i remember particularly the batters would so graham gooch was batting coach and he would do these sessions where he literally rinsed the batters he'd make them run do sprints do agility work like all this stuff and then go right get your kit on and go have a bat so they've like run around for 40 minutes 50 minutes he's knacker them out and then they've got to try and then make those split second decisions of what shot to play and you know how to build innings when you're under fatigue so i think that you know it's it probably doesn't happen much anymore just Certainly in the basketball era, I don't feel like that's going to happen.

18:06But I do think that took that group definitely to a different level. Do you think they play golf to sort of the level that Jamie's talking about on a Wednesday? Maybe that's what that is. And then on test match day, they're sort of just put your feet up a little bit. I've got visions. I've just got visions of Sharky drilling us like that for tail enders. Like little yearns, but twice as many. Go, go, go, go. Correspondence of uncertainty now. Wear this weighted jacket. Yeah. I read an article, Jamie, that you talked about thinking about cricket while you're practicing line outs. What intrusive cricket thought do you have?

18:48That's what we could call them, intrusive cricket thoughts in your real life. So what is your one? so like loyal throwing is probably like the closest thing to a closed skill in rugby you're gonna get and i just don't like a trigger word that is cricket basically like if i don't if i'm not feeling in a rhythm or you know i need to emphasize something like generally with rugby like if you're passing a ball or throwing a ball it's like where your hands finish up and for cricket to me when i say that i think about like a cover drive i'm like you know like you know the best like ian bell will hit a cover drive and you just hold the pose for like and you could you could stay there for an exam off and stay there for a day um but like that for me is just like emphasizing that i probably need to emphasize like finishing a throw for a little bit longer oh man so that that's like the cricket gnaws in me sort of being able to give me a little trivial word in the middle of the test match that's really nice so you're you're you're doing the thing where they say hold it for the cameras basically exactly yeah yeah that's lovely and is that your favourite shot to play or do you have another one that you would like?

19:51Yeah, like if I can pull it off, it's my favourite shot to play. At the minute, yeah, with a quick cricket bat in hand, very handy through the covers, but not with a proper board. Have you adapted your game to keep up with current sort of T20 slash 100 standards and can you do a ramp? Are you able to do a sand building sort of thing? Can you do that? Can you do a ramp and can you do a I'll attempt anything yeah like I mean the thing is with one hand one bounce you're not going to get many balls face so it's worth giving it a go you know so at the minute yeah I'm giving ramps a go you know but Sam is actually quite good at rugby though like especially at Saris like a lot of the boys a lot of the rugby boys grew up playing a lot of cricket you know so it's good but you like to play attacking shots in one hour yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we give him a crack but like you know everyone takes it so seriously now and like but Henry O 'Farrell brings his own ball in.

20:45And there's also... That's good. I think it should be taken seriously, one hand, one bounce, because it's a very intense form of the game, but it's very enjoyable, but it needs to be played hard. Yeah, exactly. Talking about other sports crossing over, I was listening to Guardian Football Weekly yesterday, and they were talking about how in football now, it's becoming culture for the long throws that are like actually resembling line outs a little bit at the moment. And that technically a football team, you could lift someone up like a rugby player to head of a ball and it be legal and whether that whether teams would actually think about that like you you literally could bomb the ball into the area and someone pick up Erling Haaland to head of the ball I don't really know where I'm going with that I could have a career in coaching maybe if I give it if I give it a chance to cross over to football maybe yeah it would just be it would just be a feather in rugby's cap really if you just suddenly saw that.

21:40And the Prem basically is what I was saying. Yeah, yeah. There's no question at the end of that. No, I like it. It's good. What we had so far then, two from two with Saracens, isn't it? And it's same with, so me and my dad are big Bath fans. Yeah, nice. They're onto a good thing in the minute. Onto a great thing. They're obviously the ones to beat. Do you feel like you, I mean, you're currently, you're slightly top, aren't you, on points, but only just. Two games in. But yeah, like Bath, Bath are definitely the team to beat. They are really onto something good. Their squad depth is, like, because obviously we're restricted by salary cap.

22:12So they've managed to squeeze everyone in, which is, yeah, they've done well. So, yeah, I think they'll be there or thereabouts. They're certainly favourites again. So it might be another good year for you, mate. I think we need another tail enders trip. And I think a trip to the rec is a good, it's an amazing place to watch rugby. It's amazing place to watch sport. Do you like playing there, Jamie? Oh, yeah. Like, it's just because it's such a cool city. We always go down and stay the night before. So usually it's a Friday night at Bath, which is good fun under the lights. But like a coffee lover, you just sort of get out into Bath a little bit and explore.

22:46But yeah, it's cool. And they've actually, I think they've just got planning permission to redevelop it. So it's going to be metal. Major. Yeah, it's really, really cool down there. Actually, do you know what? While we're talking about Bath, I'm pleased that you're on this episode of Tailenders because I've known Lewis Moody for many, many years as an absolutely incredible, incredible man. not only one of the all-time great rugby players, but there was that very sad news this week that he's been diagnosed with MND. How well do you know Lewis? Have you come across him much, Jamie? Yeah, I met him lots of times.

23:17It's horrible news. He's one of the greatest people I've ever met. And I just wanted to say on Tail Industry that we send all our love to him and Annie and the boys. And yeah, we'll do whatever fundraising we can do because he spent most of his post-playing career, he made a brain tumour charity. Yeah. He spent his life just sort of helping other people and it's just so incredibly cruel this has happened to him. But it was amazing. Yeah, I've got a call after this to sort of work out how the England team can raise some money for the MND community because it's scary. Like, you know, there's been some high-profile cases now, a few high-profile cases in rugby.

23:58So we'll do whatever we can to support him. Did you, you must have obviously, you would have grown up watching him win a world cup and everything for for those for you slightly younger tailenders listeners what was he so amazing at when he was playing what was his what was his nickname was mad dog yeah like he's just he he had like no care for his body whatsoever like you get people like that and like you know it's weird because he's such an intelligent and emotionally intelligent bloke but like he gets on a rugby field and just becomes like psychotic with no He was terrified of what he wants to do to his body.

24:32So like, I'm certainly not like that, but he was just so hard hitting, incredibly hardworking. Like you'd come off the field every game with stitches somewhere. Just like incredible player, incredible bloke. What's it like to also now be in your position, a hundred caps in to your international career to be part of that history? Because it's similar to Jimmy really. You're one of those big names that has, you've done it. You've done the big thing. How do you reflect on that? And how does it feel to be part of that amazing lineage, really? No, it's just like, it's so surreal. I grew up a diehard Saracens fan, a diehard England fan.

25:12Never in a million years did I think I played for Saris, let alone do all the rest of the cool stuff that I've managed to do. I think there's eight men's players. I've got a hundred games. I've played in a lot of my friends' hundreds games that I thought it'd be pretty cool to do one day, but I never thought I'd still be playing at 10.35 in a couple of weeks. There's nothing on you, Jimmy, but I'm still trucking up. And I've still got really big ambitions in the game. You know, I'd love to go to another World Cup against three. The last two, we've come second and third. So it'd be nice to sort of go on.

25:44Love it. I've got a quick question with Jamie. You know the thing we do in Tailenders, little yearns, in which us or Tailenders come up with not the heroic things you've just described at World Cups, but just tiny little things about cricket that you, if you could play cricket, you would do. For example, what example, evades me now, Greg. Oh, well, things like wanting to do a review and then getting the review right or something like that. What is the ultimate one in rugby is what I'm asking. What is the thing? Rugby little, yeah. If someone dreamt of playing rugby, but didn't, but isn't necessarily like dreaming of the competitive things like scoring a try or kicking conversion, what would the thing a rugby player do?

26:27I get asked a lot, like, what scrummaging's like. Like, I don't think people actually want to do it because, and I wouldn't advise people doing it either because it is rank. But, like, the feeling and the pressure in, like, a scrum against a cast or someone like that is, like, obviously not. I'm in the middle of the front, which is, again, don't do that. Stupid. You're also, for my experience, and maybe I was doing it wrong, but I was just so close to people's bollocks. You are. There's all sorts going on in there, mate. Yeah, you don't want to be in there. Honestly, and that's sort of my answer to what's squimmaging like.

27:05It's just like, it's not worth thinking about, really. Yeah, and it's like, because I can imagine the sounds that you're hearing are like unlike anywhere else sort of thing. Like the impact of bodies and grunting or whatever it is. Yeah, the best is when like someone's in a bit of trouble and they like squeal. That's always quite a good one. Oh my God, someone squeals. Horrible. Horrible. It's not very nice. It's the worst. I've got a little year. Rugby, the one. Go on. Having been a Johnny Wilkinson fan when I was growing up, well, I say growing up when I was in the mid-20s, I like the thought of just standing there looking at the rugby ball and then the eyes going to and from the post as you like a kick.

27:51I don't want to kick it I'm not interested in kicking it I just want to do the absolutely the cool thing the cool thing about kickers as well like rugby stadiums get loud and then obviously everyone goes dead silent for kicking I think that's always that's always quite cool yes that's a great little year and silencing the crowd that's that please respect the kicker but yeah you're right you're basically Owen Farrell doing his weird little eye thing that's what that's what the tracking of the head sort of like like Ronaldo as he's about to take a free kick that pose as you like sort of yeah exactly like I'm getting this and then doing the sort of going through your routine but then you're like I'm not actually going to kick it I just want you to do that yeah you might not have a kick though Jim someone else kick it now yeah can someone else come out I can't reach the pose I've lined it up for you yeah and I'll throw the cone after but can someone else kick it throwing the cone's a great one yeah that's a good one throwing the cone very casually throwing the cone as the referee's whistle's going as it's going over the post that's really good there was a really another one similar to this um but the bath game the other day bath sail cameron redpath scored a really good try but did he was he had loads of space so he could actually get elevation and he sprung up he went up and across like a like a leaping salmon some might say and he really held the pose in midair and then and then and then did the try that was nice to get a bit of air on a try is lovely i've just got a great one the new zealand and doing the hacker at me and I'm standing my ground.

29:27What else are you going to do, right? No, I'm standing my ground and I know the bit when it gets intense and they're like, they go up a gear. I'm walking towards them. They go up a gear. I don't want to actually play them at rugby, but I'm doing that in the middle of the game. I've got an image of you walking towards them with your leather jacket on and you get the R over your shoulder. Yeah, go roll, cheers. Jamie, what is the level of chat on a rugby field? Because there's a lot more time in the day with cricket and there's a lot more, there are breaks in play and it's not quite as intense all the way through.

30:06What is the, is there a sledging, sort of sledging sort of? Yeah, good question. Yeah, I'd say that, yeah, there is a bet, but it probably would be pre-scrum, I'd say. like there's a fair bit that goes on in the front row like a lot of chat around that that probably can't really be repeated but like you know there's little bits little digs here and there but nowadays rugby's getting so hard that you just sort of want to take your recovery while you can just breathe it's so hard I'm going to breathe to waste it's knackered everyone's just too knackered to slag each other off prick that's quiet yeah yeah i can totally imagine yeah no time for it do you know i quite i'd quite like to quite like to go right you know and they you get a bit gets a bit heated normally after a scrum or like a little little scuffle and then they just break away and just grab grab grab the shirt quickly it's like a quick grab of the collar of the shirt quickly and then they realize that they shouldn't do that and they let it drop i'd like yeah nice that'd be nice yeah a little bit quick a quick bit of rage quick rage and then done so i don't know that much about rugby but we used to always say when watching world cups that like because there's obviously a huge amount of respect in rugby and the amateur thing me and my mates used to say is that because you're getting all of your aggression out within the laws of the game there's no need for that extra I'm gonna use a word needle that like football has or whatever because you'll have there's a natural aggression that's inside the game does that make sense at all so that there's a different level of respect when the game stopped.

31:41Yeah, no, it does make sense. I guess it still does boil over though because it's like such a physical game, an aggressive game, and if stuff sort of, I don't know, anything were to happen or you're up against it a little bit sometimes. But no, you can't do anything anymore. Like back in the 80s, you used to be able to throw punches and kick people and do all that stuff. But like, thankfully that is no more. Oh, you used to be able to? Yeah, you used to be allowed to, yeah. Oh, like an ice hockey fight kind of thing. like a fair fight yeah yeah I think so well I think just like there wasn't really any cameras whereas like nowadays oh right all the TMOs and all that stuff so like you wouldn't be able to get away with it oh okay yeah yeah yeah got it is that a shame Jamie no game's gone no game's gone game's gone I just wanted to check I just wanted to check I'd rather not be punched in the face you can't punch anyone these days can you there's great zooms on those cameras sadly

32:38so So it's an Ashes winter. Okay. And I know you'll be busy playing rugby and getting cold and hurt and all the rest of it. But there's something very, very comforting about an Ashes over Christmas. It's one of my favourite things in the entire world where you don't have much to do. All you do is just sit around eating cheese, watching and getting beaten in Australia. So, Jamie, what are your thoughts on the Ashes? Are you excited about it? What's your take on the squad? Yeah, I'm buzzing. Yeah, it's brilliant. and like obviously all the build up towards this one you know the sort of level of excitement that's around it is is huge squad wise i really like it like i think you know this is me sounding like a nose again but like i like sort of we've got a confrontational bowling attack i like i'm a big jag leach fan so i'd love to see him in there um but other than that i think i think we've got everything everything it takes to go over there and and ruffle them up a bit so again like i'm really excited about it.