Mark Wood, Issy Wong and Chas Fireball

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30at Whole Foods Market. Save big on your landscaping project now at Menards. We make it easy for you to enhance your outdoor living space with the largest in-stock selection of concrete landscape block ready to take home today. Build a fire pit or retaining wall with our tumbled Belgian wall blocks. On sale now. Save big on your landscaping project at Menards. Plus, check out our weekly flyer on Menards.com for all the great deals happening now.

1:04Hello and welcome to Tailenders. We've got a massive show today. We've got Mark Wood, we've got Izzy Wong straight from the 100 auction. We've got matching with a quiz and of course we've got the greatest to ever do it, Jimmy Anderson. But before we start, But you will notice Greg's not here again. Greg has got a massive comic relief thing this week, but also his dad's not very well. So Greg's going in between both things and very understandably he can't be on the show today. So before we start, we're going to send a massive go well to Al. You'll have heard lots of stuff about Al over the last 10 years.

1:42Al was at the 2019 World Cup final, watching Mark Wood win that World Cup for the first time in England. he said about Jimmy and Jimmy said about you and Stuart Broad it all looked different in the summer when you were left out of that West Indies team so he's a part of Tailenders folklore and we're just all thinking of Al anything you want to add Jim? No you said it all mate yeah a horrible time but hopefully he can get well soon and also yeah the other thing I'll quickly say is that Al gave Greg his love of cricket and therefore gave the world Tailenders so we've got a lot to thank Al for we're hoping he gets well soon massive go well to Al.

2:19Send your thoughts to Greg and to Alan and let's crack on with the show. Mark, it's so good to see you, man. How are you? I'm all right. Been busy. A few bits and bobs going on, but I am all right. Just before we came on air, you were telling us you were doing the kitchen up. Are you filling your time between injuries? Is that what's going on? Yeah, yeah. So I've been, I mean, if anybody would like, I mean, I'll show you two. I've got my first aid kit in the room where I've got my slow cooker, where I've also got my kettle. So if anybody needs anything done in this room, I tell you, I've got all bases covered.

2:54You better believe it. Right. And I've stored a Wimbledon 95 mug that's going on here with LNX, the sponsor. So, yeah, I feel like I've got all my life shoved in this room. I don't personally have a first aid kit in my kitchen, but I feel like you are someone who'll prepare for, like, worst-case scenario. You'll have things dotted around. You'll have emergency buttons in different rooms and all sorts of stuff. Yeah, there's a plaster in every room. I believe that we've got a kelp all in every room and there's a cricket bat for a burglar in every room. So, yeah, I've got, again, all this is covered.

3:38Oh, my God, that's so good. Mate, how is it? Just talk cricket. How's the injury? How are you feeling? All right. It's real slow going. With the stage of my career, it's quite a fine balance where if I push this too hard, then that could be it. So I keep doing six-week blocks at the minute. It's improved. I'm on the third block now. So at the end of this one, there'll be another decision whether I can start cricket then. But I've just started sort of lightly running for the first time in an Alt-G machine. So I went to Newcastle football training ground and they've got this thing where it blows you up and say, I don't know if Jimmy's done it before, but what a bizarre experience that was.

4:16What? Sorry. Explain that. So it blows you. You're like zipping. It's like the wrong trousers. You're like sort of lowered into the – you put these like shorts on. Right. And then they're pumped up with air so they can then control how much pressure, how much of your body weight is on your legs. So if they want it just to be like 30 – so you can run, but they take away 70 % of your body weight. so you're not putting loads of force through your legs. It's such a weird contraption. It is a weird feeling. It took us a little while to get used to it, but I was very gassy on the night time. It's very airy in there.

4:52So I'm hoping that the more I get used to it, the less harmful it will be to me. Do you get use of the whole facilities of Newcastle Football Clubs when you go in there? I went to the academy training ground, so it's slightly separate. It's quite nice the way they do it. The academy base is here, and you've got to walk across the field with a long gate if you're called up to the first team pitches. So if you're a young kid, you've got to earn the right to go to the other place, which I thought was quite a good thing. I mean, when I first started at Durham, it was sort of similar. You never went in the first team dressing room, whereas now when I go to Durham, everyone just mingles together.

5:25So it sort of gives you that incentive. But yeah, it was good. There was nobody really in there when I went in at the time. And yeah, it was just a bizarre experience. I couldn't, like Jimmy said, it's a bit like you're on the moon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're running and it's like, you're sort of giving it everything you've got and it's like you're hardly touching the bottom. It's a weird feeling. It'd be great if you could use that to bowl. Just take all the pressure off your body. Is that a remark? Just floating in. It's floating in. Still bowling 90 plus. I don't think I'd come off. It might be landing a bit easier as well when I hit the deck all the time.

6:02Do you watch cricket? Have you watched the World Cup, for example, while you've been injured or do you find that a difficult thing to do, mate? a little bit of both like I have at times and then other times I haven't I've watched highlights sometimes I've watched the games I think I was particularly interested in you know when there's a big controversial so like Joss's for example people are saying oh Joss's not doing well I've been watching because I'd be desperate for him to do well and so watched his last few winnings in particular but yeah I've tried my hand at a few different things I've been going to my kids little foodie session where they cook meals so I'm sort of like branching out a little bit I've been doing a bit of cheffing on tried ginger ale for the first time which i thought was real bia but it turns out it's non-oncoholic i went to see jurassic park um the orchestra jurassic park so like wow i thought i would switch in career at that point when i heard the day with the violins and i was like that is i mean i could see myself being the symbol bloke the bat like i could definitely see me doing something like that i grew my sideburns for a little bit to play pirates with my son

7:04with both wife and son yeah so i've been busy what can i go back to can i go back to the food thing with your kids yeah little foodies yeah is that that's you cooking for them or them cooking for you they cook so like you just sit there and like i help the little one but the two of them cook and like so they've done like casadillas and like last time they did like cheese and some leek scones and stuff like that so like you help like mix it up and stuff like that so you leave and you're covered in flour and the kids have got leeks coming up their hair and stuff like that, but it's great fun. Because the reason I ask is because I've spent probably over 10 years on tour with you and you're quite fussy with food.

7:44I think that's the right way of putting it. So, Fee, if we're in India, Woody would cut into every single morsel of chicken or meat or whatever and just stick it on his fork and put it in my face and go, is that cooked? Is that cooked? yeah so i can't imagine him letting kids look for him and then eat it without going i know they're young but they seem to think that it's cooked as well so i'm happy with that so would you need a reassurance when you like make chicken or whatever you'd like basically burn it because you're just so freaked out about it being remotely pink in the middle yeah that's what i would do um mate i don't want to may turn it into a cricket interrogation because that's what you're here for but just quickly on the first test after that ashes test you drove to the second test and then found out you're injured is that right that's what i contemplated driving i wanted to drive the the security wouldn't let me yeah i didn't actually when i mapped it out i don't know if i really thought how far perth to brisbane the drive was i thought i'll just follow this sort of coast and it'll be and then the guy because i said my initial thought was well i'll just cut across the country in a straight line that looks like not too bad like a couple of days stop somewhere yeah he's like look if you get if something happens to your vehicle in the middle of nowhere in australia like you're in a world of hurt there like yeah it could be like really dicey so i said oh well i'll follow the course it was just like to get out of perth itself was like a day and a half i was like that's one state that's another five to gun after that like i'll be there by the time i get there i'll be like the next ashes series so the security called it off.

9:23Was that because your instinct was just to drive because you were so disappointed after that? Yeah, I didn't want to stay around the hotel and be around what had happened and I was down in the dumps about my legs so I was just like, look, I just want to get out, get on the road. That was me, Mark Saxby, as you both know and we were trying to get David Saker to drive and be our local knowledge but they were both keen but the security wasn't keen. Just for everyone's information, that is 2 ,250 miles Mark was attempting to drive there between first and second time, which would have been... That's how much you hate flying.

9:59Yeah, I really don't like this. Yeah, because I heard you say, actually, off at the first test, but I might have misremembered this, but saying that Travis Head innings felt like it was happening too quickly. and I found it such an interesting analogy because we talk about that with T20 cricket and people often talk about it like in Anfield in cup games and stuff like when things are going against you it suddenly feels like it's all just happening too fast like you can't control events like that can you still remember it that way? Yeah I definitely remember a conversation with Gus Atkinson where I was saying look what are you actually thinking here because we were just at one point it felt like we were just bowling and he was just smacking it and it was like can we just have a minute here of just a recess of of what we're doing obviously that was myself Stokes, Joffre, Brydon Koss and Gus yeah and Brydon and Gus tend not to say a lot as in they're not big chatters on the field Joffre's fairly laid back in the best of times so it was like it was Stokes he's captain so I felt a responsibility of like look we need to get a hold of this here and and talk to each other we're not actually communicating about what we're doing we seem to just be we've gone to a plan and yes to the captain you have to stick to that plan of right we're going to go to the short ball now and see if we can get him out that way we felt he had a weakness but then when he got away and he was in with it we just kept bowling back and he just kept smacking it and I was thinking look we've got a how are we thinking are we trying to get him off strike now are we trying to get him out have we tried a slower ball I said because have you tried like something different where he's not just saying the same thing all the time and then I I just remember looking up at the scoreboard and I was thinking, the game's finished.

11:38Like, we're not clawing this back. Even if we get them out now, this game is finished. And it was like, and it's this night. We aren't coming back tomorrow or day four or whatever. And it just felt, it was that, like, sort of disheartening or sort of sinking feeling where you're like, we're going to lose this. There's nothing you can do about it. When it's that fast paced, the game just flies by you and you almost feel lost in a way. Yeah, just to say the obvious question there, if Jimmy had been involved, would you and Jimmy have had more dialogue, do you think, in that moment? I can 1 ,000%, yeah.

12:13I would have said yes, just from playing with Jimmy. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that you're going to solve the situation. It just helps. No, no, of course not. In most situations, it'll help, doesn't it? yeah I just know from Jimmy being a leader in that group that he that we would have maybe it's not that we would have gone against what Stokes he wanted in that moment I just think we would have discussed and slowed the game down and maybe tried something where look are we thinking clearly here because there's been times I've certainly done it in my career where I'll rush back me and Martin I just want to bowl the next ball and Jimmy will have come over from it off and said look what what are you trying to do here just nail this next ball top of off and then because your mind almost goes into overdrive where you're three or four balls ahead or you're big picture like, oh my God, we're going to lose this or I've got to get him out this exact ball.

13:01And it's like, no, take stock. What are we trying to do? Just execute that. And Jimmy was grateful. I think we could have done that a little bit better in that moment. But again, it's easy to say now when you're in the moment and everything's flying everywhere, there's men all scattered around the boundary. It's not like everyone's tied in together. Sometimes it can feel like it just gets away from you a bit fast. Yeah, it does sometimes remind me because people always say that about Anfield. Like I've heard Arteta and Gary Neville say that, but Anfield is a specific place. It can just feel like it's happening too quick.

13:32And sometimes it makes you feel like Australia is that for England. Like Australia specifically, cricket speeds up. Jimmy's doing a face where he doesn't quite agree with that. No, I don't know. I've always found that a weird sort of analogy and I've heard people use it, you know. And I guess there's similarities because when you're an away team going to Anfield or an away team going to Old Trafford or wherever. It is different and difficult when the atmosphere is so much against you. And Australia is probably the closest we'd get to that as cricketers or headingly for a Lancashire player. It does feel a little bit more hostile than normal, but I just think it's the situation of the game that dictates how fast it feels.

14:15So if things aren't going your way, then you end up sometimes just turning round at the end of your mark and bowling and then bowling another ball, hit another four, bowl another ball. And no one's really thinking about it, especially if you've not got that communication. As soon as you get the communication, that's when you slow things down naturally because you're talking, so there's gaps in between your balls and you're getting that clarity on what you're going to bowl and what the plan is. So I think it's the same in any sport. The best players and the best teams will slow things down in certain moments just to gather their thoughts and make sure that they're doing the right thing, talk to each other and try and come out with the best plan.

14:55What I will say is at one point I don't think it really mattered because I remember me and Stokes discussed Stokes pitching it up and having a different field straightening my field up and he hit it wide of extra cover, so I moved wide of extra cover. Then he hit it down the ground. It was just one of them days where he was almost taking the mick where we were trying different things and he just hit it in the gap all the time. So, yes, I think, like Jimmy says, even if we probably had communicated or we could have maybe communicated better in that moment, he was on fire then, so it probably wouldn't have made a huge difference.

15:24Was it painful for you, Woody, watching the rest of the series unfold? I mean, that's a stupid question. Obviously, it was. I really struggled more than normal, actually, because when you're injured, you can distance this a little bit because you think, well, there's actually nothing I can do. But I felt so responsible in this series that this was the one I could have had a big impact in. the pace and bounce of the wickets. I did okay last time I was in Australia. I really felt that we had a chance and I still think if Head doesn't play that in, then the whole series might look different. But yeah, as soon as we lose that game, it just has a totally different feel.

15:59From now, Woody, have you got something in your head where a comeback date? I know it's difficult to say, especially with a long rehab, but are there little bits where you go, right the rehab steps up now and then if that all goes well then we can look to bowl here or are you just taking it day by day no um neither actually i it's the first time my career this this one's been a little bit different it's six week blocks so it's not day by day it's specialists and rescan every six weeks and it's been improving since what i got told is a bit of an explosion of my knee in australia so every six weeks has been an improvement on my knee so i'm hoping that by the next one it's in a position where like I say I've started running now that means maybe then I can start lightly bowling and then I just see where the next step I get to which is quite hard for someone like me who wants to have goals and things mapped out and know where I'm going like I have to sit in that unknown space which is quite difficult yeah I can totally feel that what I can can say on behalf of probably everyone in England actually I know for a fact everything and cricket international cricket without you mate is a far less interesting enjoyable and entertaining spectacle so everyone wants you to chat their man if you can get there think county cricket iron up some county cricket or yeah i mean i that's probably when we talk about prep i mean i should have tried to play some games for Durham i mean i tried to get back at certain points but my knee just wasn't quite ready again it's easy in hindsight you think i should have even if i was at 80 it's just bold at 80 and then at least a game would have given as an indicator i'm happy of where i was i haven't been for durham for so long so i'd love to even now start off at say like 2020 for durham and it's less over as less impact and then just say take it from there yeah um but again i don't know the time scale so i'm not in the hundred i've even started thinking about other things doing podcasts trying my hand at some company i'm doing my coaching badges so I've now started to try and think for the first time like what am I going to try and do if this doesn't go well yeah yeah that's the hard thing isn't it Jim because I can imagine like it demands to keep playing that level it demands all of your attention but then part of you's thinking oh the other side of it I've got to be ready for life the other side as well you've got that two things happening you've just come out the other side like yourself yeah I've been thinking about what to do after cricket for 15 years and I've thought that hard about it that I'm still playing cricket.

18:30No, I think it's good. I think it's really good. The PCA are great with that. They encourage guys, even if they're 20-year-olds just coming on to staff, or 18 to whatever age, they just encourage them to just keep an eye on the future. There is downtime in the winter where if you don't go away and play cricket, if you don't get any franchise gigs, then maybe do some qualifications, whether it's coaching or something outside of cricket just to give you sort of something to fall back on if and when cricket finishes for you. So I think, yeah, it's just a strange thing because when you've only known cricket for such a long period of time, you don't really want to do anything else.

19:11Yeah, yeah. That's a mean cheese scone, though. I was going to say, the hardest thing about test cricket and four - and five-day cricket, I know Woody very well, it's really hard to go into a game doing what he does and bowl 80 % because people, you know, you're like, when that competitive juices start flowing and people are watching you like, is he trying? So if you look at football, for example, when people are coming back from injury, they go, oh, just give him, we'll give him 20 minutes at the end of this game and then we'll give him maybe 30 minutes in the next game and then maybe play him for the first half in the next game.

19:48You can't do that in four-day cricket. You can't just dip into a game and bowl, I'm just going to bowl 10 overs today it's how you're drilled isn't it so i've got that feeling you don't want to let other people down either like i wouldn't want to be giving in my best so exactly yeah i always feel it from being like if i'm losing my voice but i need to scream like people say don't scream because you need to keep your voice for two weeks but when you're in the moment you feel like you're fobbing people off if you don't scream no matter how many people it is yeah you want to deliver that thing like the future doesn't matter in that moment so i can totally get that anyway sorry i was just i was It was like, it's hard to prepare for series when, you know, come back from injury.

20:26You know, I don't think anyone's solved that problem of the perfect comeback, you know, especially when like fixtures now just don't fit. There's so much franchise cricket and, you know, there aren't many four-day games where you could just pop in and have a game. So it's difficult. And I do, I feel for you there, Woody, for the, you know, lead up to that. We want you back, Woody, but you're always welcome on Tailenders anytime if you're not cooking or playing cricket.

20:53we've got matching waiting in the wings who's got a quiz for you would you be happy to say but before we do that we do have to cover the biggest game in world cricket which just happened on sunday the t20 final the world cup went almost entirely to script south africa looked unstoppable before getting very stopped in the semi-final new zealand somehow getting to the final again but then being too conscientious guests to show up for that and india the runaway winners the The only anomaly really was Australia didn't turn up. What have we learned, Jim, from the World Cup? Are India going to be dominant for a long time?

21:25Yeah. Yeah, it feels like that, doesn't it? I mean, it's frightening the talent they've got, the depth they've got in their squad. You know, Samson didn't even start the tournament and then ends up being one of their pivotal players at the back end. Yeah. You know, I think you've got to say that the IPO helps. the fact that a lot of them are exposed to pressure at such a young age. Lots of them have played IPL for a number of years and it just makes that transition to international cricket much easier, I think. And then they come in in big pressure moments and absolutely deliver. And I think to get, I think, did they get two scores over 250 and one just shy of 250 in the tournament?

22:04I mean, that's just... In the final two games, yeah. Yeah, just crazy. And their bowling, obviously, we talked about Bumrah on the last episode, phenomenal again. they've just got depth, they've got spin, they've got pace, they've got left arm quicks, they've got the batting is just a joke. So I think it was inevitable. I think there were sort of some promising outsiders, but I couldn't see anyone. If India played the way they did on that day, I can't see any other team in world cricket beating them. Let's just stay quickly with Bumrah because Jimmy was saying in the last episode Woody that he actually doesn't think Bumrah's that good that you almost as a fast bowler can't learn anything from him because it's not like you can watch it and be like oh that's what i'll do because he's just on another planet would you share similar feelings for that do you think he is the greatest in all formats in i think he's unique isn't he that his action dictates that he's just so unique i've never seen anybody else like him you know navin ul haq maybe has a slightly similar action but he's not like bummer or a bummer his skill level with that action having faced him as well and jimmy will tell you this i mean the moment of times I'm nervous to face anybody but him I just can't I mean I've tried triggering quickly, I've tried triggering late, I've tried and he just keeps hitting it in the leg all the stumps it just kind of gets me back on it yeah he's honestly a nightmare to face and I think if we were having this conversation with him I think we'd all say to his face as well that he's class he's mint I think India in general I think to back up Jimmy's point I mean the IPL from my experience of being in the IPL you've got like sort of Australian coaches English and the Indian culture of their cricket is so good but now that they're really fit they've got programmes that sort of match ours and Australia's they've got financial back in the stadiums that you play in their cricket is you know it's built up for them to succeed and they've got role models now where it's like maybe like the era of like Tendulkar and things like that I think now So Bumrah, Coley, Sharma, Hardick, like you've got all these guys.

24:13If you're a young player coming through the IPL, you look up at these guys and you think, that's your blueprint of how you do it. And the next generation should also be, from their point of view, you'd hope that they'd be successful as well. So you could see it for a long time, unless the others catch up, really. Yeah. It's so interesting because we were thinking last year, like, oh, this is the new guard of Indian cricket. Gil, Pant, you know, Rahul was a senior member. They haven't even been involved in this World Cup. It's a total different collection of cricketers. Yeah, but that one-day team coming to England next year, I don't know.

24:44So can they do it on a cold, windy day in Durham? That's the big boundaries. Can they do it on a big boundary, cold, windy day at Durham? That would be the real test for them. We'll be the judge of that. Jimmy was quickly saying as well about as a spectacle from a fast bowler's perspective over there, Woody, that he wasn't enjoying watching all the spin, the slow balls, that kind of thing, like the rotating of the strike. Do you find it frustrating when you're watching cricket out there? And for example, even with Boomer as an example, he's bowled four overs for 30 odd and that's been the game changing thing.

25:16Do you find it frustrating? Do you feel like God built cricket for a different reason sometimes? Well, I would take Boomer out of the equation because he seems to go, I mean, his career is what, like six and over or something daft like that. So if I take him aside and I look at all the other fast bowlers, I don't think the TV, and Jimmy will back us up on this, I don't think the TV does it justice in India because the boundaries at times can feel really short and the pitches are that good for batting. But sometimes as a bowler, you feel like, I've actually got nowhere to go here. I've tried a slow ball and it kisses on and it smacked it.

25:50I'll bowl it wide and they seem to get it over extra because you think, well, it's not that much of a hit. I'll bounce them. I've got a bit of pace. Maybe they'll top edge it, but then the top edge flies for six. So actually you feel like then your options are so limited. This is Bunmara's side, who obviously is ridiculous. But yeah, there's certainly been times that I've bowled there where you come off having gone at eight or nine and over and you think, I've bowled well, I do. That's the way it feels. Exactly. There were a couple of times when Seamus got on top and it was without Bunmara. So it was, who would it have been?

26:25It was Pandia was swinging it both ways the first couple of overs in one game, which I enjoyed watching. and Matt Henry, I thought, throughout the tournament looked a threat with a new ball. And he's not express pace. He's like 83 to 85 mile an hour, can swing it, but generally just nips it off the seam. And he was bowling sort of traditional lengths and stuff. And there were times when he got whacked, but generally I thought he was pretty good to watch. Right, that's so true, but as we've only got eight minutes left to fill this time in, matching our own Jasper Brummer is waiting in the wings to bowl the death overs of the episode.

27:00Matching you there. Hello! hello hey woody how you doing mate i mean i get mixed feelings every time i see you the the mood thing still affects me

27:13i've tried to bury it mate i've tried to i haven't i haven't mentioned it for years how you doing right yeah good are you yeah good good apparently we've got we're pushed for time yeah i'm so sorry matching we did we've only got eight minutes for you to get this quiz in what you got for us basically we're going back I think we played this in 2023 is a game of would Mark Wood basically I'm going to present a tricky moral dilemma to Mark Wood and you two have to discuss Jimmy and Felix what would Mark Wood do yeah what would Mark Wood do okay go on you've got to kind of look into your soul yes I would keep a first-haired kid in every room that's good to say okay right go on yeah a week before the ashes series starts right woody is rested in his hotel room due to a clerical error he accidentally gets added into the aussie whatsapp team group okay because there's also an aussie kit man called mark wood on the group so if you already asked mark wood what mark wood would do no no no not yet he's gonna tell us that okay yeah go on they are discussing juicy detailed game plans top secret strategies that would give England a huge advantage in the next test okay Woody he could leave the group but equally no one knows he's there if he took this information to Baz it could be a game changer would Mark Wood stay in the group and use the information to his the team they're the country's advantage right well I need to say I don't think that's a difficult one I think Woody would be straight in the dress room not even up to Baz, he'd be going, lads, look at this!

28:52Look!

28:56Yeah, I agree. So I think he's staying and get all the juicy goss. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I might even put a message in, see you at 10 to 11pm in the gym, lads. You know what I mean? Get them knackered. Get them beasted before the game. Yeah, 100 % I'd stay in. Oh, nice. Okay, pitch to the scene. Okay, a new player has joined the England ranks for the next test against India. His name is Chaz Fireball. Chaz Fireball? Yeah. He's also from Durham. He's handsome, chiseled, cocky, 6 '5", 18-year-old, right? Yeah. He's bowling 96 miles per hour. On his debut, he takes five wickets, and overnight he's become the darling of English cricket, okay?

29:36Chaz, he's unlikable. Because you're both Geordies, Woody is rooming with him. And whilst Chaz is out of the room, Woody discovers undeniable proof that shows Chaz Fireball has developed a new undetectable ball tempering method. Right? That is godfather David Blaine showed him. It's impossible to spot. Yeah. But it's this sleight of hand that is helping him get all the wicket. Right? If he carries on playing, Chaz Fireball will win the test. But should he expose him? Would Mark Wood be a whistleblower in that situation? There's so much information there. What?