The Definitive Ashes Preview

0:00Jimmy Anderson:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30Jimmy Anderson:earn miles. Amex rewards your inner explorer. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com Terms apply. Hello and welcome to Tailenders. Hello and thank you for having us on Tailenders. This is Greg James, aka GeForce for regular listeners. We have Jimmy Anderson. Hello. We have Felix White. Go on, cheers. Later on we'll have Match in Tendorka. If you're new to Tailenders where have you been? We've been going for seven years. Seven years? Seven years. So, count them. And we've finally got our break on BBC iPlayer. And it's lovely to be here. And I've been told by the Paymasters, BBC Sport, that usually we are a loosely cricket-based podcast.

1:10Jimmy Anderson:Today, we are a cricket-based podcast. Oh, right. I was going to say less loosely, but it's very cricket-specific, is it? It's less loosely or it's sort of not loosely. Yeah. I'm confused with that with Jimmy, because Jimmy, would you prefer tailenders to be even less loosely cricket-based or as we are gearing up for the ashes, would you rather we talk about cricket today? Well, I like the looser parts of it, but my job is in cricket, so I feel like I'm a spare part if we're not talking about it. No, that's not true at all. But you have a love of music and you like silly stuff as well as cricket.

1:50Jimmy Anderson:You come into your own non-cricket stuff. Absolutely. But today, don't worry, this is cricket and it's serious. And we'll take it seriously because BBC Sport are paying for this. They're very hot on that. And this is an Ashes preview show. That is exciting. Look, we're only loosely cricket-based when there's not really any good cricket going on. Agree. And so there is good cricket going on now. It's about to happen. Ashes preview show. Jimmy, where should we begin? You've been doing a lot of press, doing a lot of social media stuff. I know you hate this question because you just told me outside.

2:22Jimmy Anderson:You hate it when people say, are you excited for the ashes? James, are you excited for the ashes? Yeah, I mean, I find it hard to get excited for something that I'm not involved in. It's the first one that I've, like, first away ashes that I've not been involved in for, like, 20 years. So I'm sure when they start, I'll get excited for it. But there's a lot to be excited about, but I'm just not there yet. It's a very honest answer. Yeah, well, we should maybe dig into that a little bit because as cricket fans, we're also sad that you're not there. How do you... Do you think you're going to get up and watch it?

3:01Jimmy Anderson:Or are you going to wait for... Are you going to do the early morning doom scroll and go, please, please don't be 40 for six. Please don't be 40 for six. Don't be 40 for six. 50 for six. I think I will watch certain... But I'd like to think I'd be able to watch some of the first tests. I think that's really important to get yourself into the series. But there'll definitely be moments where I'm watching the Boxing Day test, where you can stay up on Christmas Day, you go through, you've eaten your body weight in Turkey, and now I'm going to stay awake for the start of the Boxing Day test. I think that's my favourite day of the year, when it rolls around.

3:38Jimmy Anderson:In the ashes, yeah, Boxing Day, so good. Because we'll all be up. The Tear Lenders community will be up, and if you're watching this for the first time, you're now part of that community, whether you like it or not. Go, cheers. You're part of it. And we will be up, you know, just sharing our thoughts, probably on social media. But that's an exciting thing. We all love doing that. But why, I guess, we'll tackle why it's so difficult to win in Australia. Yes. I guess that's the thing because I just joked about it being 46 or whatever when you wake up, but that is a reality and it has been a reality for a long time.

4:14Jimmy Anderson:England haven't won a test match in Australia since the 2010-2011 series which is a long time ago. Is that true? Give us a few reasons as to why it's so difficult. I think it's a bunch of different stuff. I think that the media coverage over there is so much bigger than a test series in England for example. It is such a big part of their sporting calendar and cricket over there is huge. So I think it's one of those things where when you land and you've got your trolley going through the airport and there's a guy with a camera from Channel 9 or Fox Sports or whatever, and you're like, I've literally just flown for 24 hours, the last thing I want to be doing is talking to you.

4:59But that's how much they want a piece of you all the time. So I think getting used to dealing with that, that's a big thing. The wickets are different to England. the ball's different, Cucrebro balls are for bowlers it's harder to get movement and the heat as well the heat in Perth, in Adelaide it's going to be, it does take a while to get used to it so Brisbane can be hot as well there's all sorts of different factors that I think just make it going into being really hard, plus Australia are amazing in their own country, they have notoriously been fantastic at playing at home The results at the Gabba, their form there is just insane against every team, not just England.

5:43So I think, yeah, put them all together and it's pretty tough.

5:46Jimmy Anderson:Are this Australia team amazing? I guess that's the big question, isn't it? Because we've talked about on the podcast before that this is a really big opportunity for England to maybe get them this time round because they might not be as strong as they have been the last few tours away. Are they actually amazing? or do they always slightly underplay and slightly give us a little something and go, oh, maybe Bo Webster might not? I think there's definitely a few cracks that England could exploit. There's some unproven players in that squad, but you do still have the experience and the reliability of Steve Smith, Hazelwood, Alex Carey, Khawaja, Stark.

6:32there's a really good core group of players Lion you put in there I know it's been talked about recently about the age of there's one player in the squad under 30 but for me that's not an issue it shows they've got experience, they're all fit enough they're not creaking old men that are trying to run around the field, they're actually experienced and I feel like maybe there are a couple of cracks there like who opens the batting, what's the top three is it going to be Labashane opening and who's going to come in for Cummins who's not going to play the first test so there's a few cracks there that England could exploit.

7:08Jimmy Anderson:What are you feeling because those things that you reeled off there Jim it being difficult when people put you under attention the pitches the heat what are your feelings about how England will cope with it because the interesting thing is that we don't really know because obviously it feels like about 40 years ago but the last Ashes Overseas when Rory Burns got bowled first ball that feels like a very like it's a totally different makeup of personnel especially with the ball actually what are your instincts about because obviously your 10 11 team they weren't necessarily like brutal quicks but you all bowled long spells disciplined spells and got us straight out that way and it seems like a lot of the hype is that we're going to try and blow them away with archer and wood like what's your feeling about how this especially with the ball we're in the coat with all that.

7:54Yeah, well, I think that could be one telling part of the whole series. If England are going to win this series or have a chance, then the bowling attack has got to be, like, relentlessly good, because I think the pitchers will have a little bit of movement in them. They have done in the last two tours we've been there. So you do need accuracy as well as pace, and I know it's great to watch. There'll be some spells, I'm sure, where we're watching thinking this is amazing with Joffre Archer, Mark Wood, especially Perth, the first test, where it's notoriously bouncy and quick. So there could be some amazing spells in the games, but I think you do still need that element of accuracy.

8:30And I think one of the question marks for England will potentially be Ben Stokes, because I think he is out of that group of bowlers. He's probably the one bowler who could churn out those spells of accuracy and skill. But he's also got that injury record hanging over him, so that could be a massive part of the series as well.

8:50Jimmy Anderson:Well, let's talk more about the bowlers then. So we talked about Wood and Archer. Hopefully they play sometimes together. They play as many as they can, but they've got to do the workload. Matthew Potts, Josh Tong, Brydon Kass, Sherr Bashir as the spinner. Where are those overs coming from? Where are those, as Felix says, those disciplined, long spells in the heat coming from? I can't see Archer and Wood playing too many games together I think if you're going to play them together potentially the first test at Perth where it's fast and bouncy you want to get off to a good start in the series so hit them straight away with proper pace but then after that I imagine they'll try and play one of them and rest and recover the other so then I think that leaves space for if they play together then obviously there's one more and Stokes so it potentially would be a Bryden Kars or a Gus Atkinson I wouldn't mention Gus yeah of course yeah sorry Gus they're two that they're still quick enough they're like 85 plus Bryden Kars probably the slightly quicker of the two getting towards 90 miles an hour but they've got skill as well and probably a bit more control than the others so I feel like they could play a big no they're going to have to play a big part especially if they rotate in Wood and Archer wanting.

10:12Jimmy Anderson:I just had a vision when he said that of the first test, winning a toss, bowling first, arching winning the team and that like dubious top three of Australia. We've had it in the past where the first ball has defined an Ashes series so we talked about Burns getting bowled and we're feeling like oh we know how the next two months is going to go just from this one delivery. Obviously the Harmson stray delivery that you were there for in 2006-7 and you were mid on for that weren't you? Where you probably felt like cast like okay i know we're getting beat 5-0 now is that crawley this four exactly zach crawley first ball so it's like almost that first ball everyone waited up so how is it going to be defined and it'd be so good if it was wood or archer bowling at kawaja with his failing eyes do you know what i mean can we get that breakthrough early that that's what that's the box office thing we want the ashes to start with because that's going to be the battle really isn't that australian top order i guess that's probably works well maybe not no i i've i honestly think that Australia's middle order will be the massive hurdle for England with Smith probably at four.

11:17If he bats three, that's a bonus for England because I think if him at four, it's like Joe Root being at four for England, it just solidifies that middle order. Then you've got Head at five, Travis Head and then probably Cam Green maybe at six or Webster at six. I think that's, and Lord are experiencing there. So I think that's going to be where England are going to be targeting.

11:45Jimmy Anderson:And Lavashane back in form at three as well. Again, we don't know if he's going to open or back three, but he's in the runs at the minute in shield cricket. Steve Smith got 100 the other day so they're coming in to form these players. Steve Smith captain. Yes. We mentioned this on the last podcast but it's... Everyone moves on. The world moves on. Keeps turning. Everyone's forgotten about it. He was disgraced. never to be captain again. Oh, right. I see what you're saying. Yeah. You know, a few years ago when Tim Payne came in and relieved him of the duties and now he's all back. Is that a good...

12:17He's been captain since then. No, I know,

12:20Jimmy Anderson:but it's just in terms of an Ashes story. Focus. Yeah. He hasn't been an Ashes captain for a while, well, since it all kicked off. Well, he's been vice captain though, so I think he's sort of... His influence has been there. They've forgiven and forgotten, haven't they, definitely. But who else could they have given it to? So I thought that was quite interesting. They could have given it to another vice-captain so that do you have to? pretty much it'd be weird to have a vice-captain and give the captaincy to someone else if the actual captain's injured yeah I guess so a lot of Australians seem happy about actually they think Smith's a more astute captain than Cummins so obviously you're going to miss Cummins with the ball very much but I've seen Australians in media say actually is that going to suit us Smith's captain but he's a slightly more innovative thinking captain.

13:08Jimmy Anderson:Thoughts please, Jimmy? I'm not sure about that because I think Cummins' record as captain is really good. I think he's actually openly spoken about the difficulty for him as captain and being a main bowler. Right, yes. Managing his spells and his game management. But generally, I think he's got a good record and has been really good. But Smith is an excellent captain. He had a good stint before the controversy and stuff. So I think it doesn't really, it's not going to sort of be the difference between winning and not winning. What do you think about Cummins with the injury in your experience of being a fast bowler?

13:46Jimmy Anderson:Oh, 161 registered injuries. Right. 71. I forgot 10 of them then. Where they say first test. You never know, do you? What's your inkling with that? Your medical opinion. Yeah, Dr. Anderson, what do you think? Well, the issue is, with a back injury like that, if you play and it's not fully healed or fully fit, then the likelihood of it going again is quite high. So he won't want to go into a test and not be able to bowl 25, 30 overs in innings. He'll want to be fully fit to be able to contribute properly. So I think they're just being, I don't think they're being careful, but I think they're just making sure that he's fit enough.

14:32because if he comes back for the second test, for example, and then does it again, then they are screwed in that last few times.

14:38Jimmy Anderson:Quickly, while we're talking about key bowlers and injuries, just quickly, Jim, it's a good time to retell everyone about Bavaria 10-11 because obviously Jimmy is one of very few alive English cricketers to know what it's like to win in Australia. And one thing we'll be sure of is that this Basel team will not be preparing the same way that Jimmy's team did, where it was brutal and you got taken to the forest of Bavaria. but I don't know if we've actually said this on television, this story before, but just quickly run, or have we? I think it's a good one because this is like classic Ashes story.

15:11Jimmy Anderson:New viewers, new listeners. Do you want to hear about Bavaria? Yes, yes they do. Oh right, you do. So it's about that retreat because they take you away to like the forest in the wilderness to try and prepare for Australia, right? Yeah, we went, so about a month before that Ashes in 10-11, and we got told we're going to, we've got a training camp in, I don't even know if we got told it was Germany, but we just got told in Europe somewhere, bring your passport to the airport. Nothing more than that. So obviously there's like whispers going around the team. Swanee thinks we're going to Munich Beer Festival.

15:45Jimmy Anderson:That's Swanee's natural state is he wakes up thinking he's going to Munich Beer Festival. Is it the beer festival today? Morning. No, Graham, not today. Take the kids to school. to be in a beer festival what's the score so we well we got on this flight to Munich and then we got taken in these vans into the forest kidnapped somewhere and tagged and yeah we got everything took off us like watchers phones all confiscated as we got there Stephen got his Haribo taken off him yeah everything that was yeah confiscated basically took everything off us and we hadn't so we had a I think we had a change of clothes a tent like we had eight or ten man tents and then throughout the couple of days without three three or four days we're there we're doing challenges and you know we had to build a stretcher and then carry a take it in turns to carry someone around an obstacle course on the stretcher who was on yours well kp had a bit of a bad achilles so we had to carry him around for like three kilometers but um no so then we got to this box we had a boxing thing where we got in a circle like all the players would form a circle then two by two by two get called out into the middle and it was like they tried to match up people size for size so it was bresnan and cut swan and strauss like players are finn panasar not a great fight people of like similar statues and then I got pulled out in the middle with Chris Tremlett yeah and who is a giant well for those watching he's about the width of that bookshelf yeah behind us so then yeah and basically we sparred for like 30 seconds ended up breaking a rib but thankfully just healed in time for wow and then they won well it's interesting we're laughing about Bavaria and the Haribo yeah and Monty Panesar but I love Monty versus Steve Finn but what's the what's the preparation what's the Brendan McCullum equivalent of that what I'm saying what would they have been doing is the truth is the right answer somewhere in between the two what's where what is the Brendan McCullum way or is it shtick that they're just going to be playing golf I'm not thinking about it is that like a perception no they'll be playing golf for sure are they carrying each other around the stretchers while playing golf no the difference is they've just had a one day tour to New Zealand so there's been a few players on there Harry Brook captain in that team McCullum and the coaches will be there as well so there's not much time to then get from New Zealand to Bavaria Australia

18:30I imagine doing it with jet lag as well anyway but yeah I think they'll just they'll obviously be training really hard physically and in the nets and then there will be time to relax and play gold what's your honest opinion about

18:44Jimmy Anderson:the lack of preparation for because it obviously that's something that throughout your career became less and less able to have like long form preparation there's that often we always hear that like they're not they haven't got enough first class games like they used to do you feel like that is a thing acclimatizing wise i feel like it depends on the team i think players are different now like when we won in 10-11 we played three first class games before that series we We played Western Australia, South Australia and the Australia A in Hobart. Yeah. So we almost played that as a three-match series.

19:20And then you're into the Ashes. So you're sort of really in, like, your intensity is right at a good level. Players were in form. Like, confidence was high. So I think it's good in that respect. But now there's just no time to do that. You can't play first-class games. We had a four or five week build up to that Asher series in Australia.

19:43Jimmy Anderson:If you were out there in this squad, would you have preferred a few more games before the first test? I don't think it really mattered to me as a bowler. I like the idea of being able to manage your overs in the nets. You can get time on feet. So basically, they call it time on feet when they want you to get miles in your legs when you sort of replicate fielding for a day or whatever. So there's ways of doing that without playing a game. But I think it's the intensity for me of... Because in nets, you go from... Your intensity is always going to... As much as you want to try and push it, you then get out at the Perth Stadium with 60 ,000 people there, you're naturally going to go to there.

20:29So it's such a big jump that I do feel like there's some sort of... There needs to be a middle ground. So especially batting, though,

20:36Jimmy Anderson:because if someone's batting for three, for example, if Pope doesn't play, it looks like Pope might do, but someone's batting for the first time with no preparation at three, it's a bit like, good luck, mate. Off you go. It's not like there's no preparation. Yeah, obviously. But match situation and the climate. Again, it's like personal preference that if the captain and coach try and do what's best for the team, what they think is best for the team. I mean, like I said, the team we had in 2010, they loved it. They love that, like, Strauss, Cook, Trot, they just want to bat for days. Well, that's it, isn't it?

21:11You want to know that you can hit a boundary in Australia.

21:15Jimmy Anderson:Or not in their case. I look at the England squad now and think, a lot of them are like, best when fresh. I want to be just mentally fresh and ready. That's a very interesting point, because we've talked a lot. I think we, I can't remember who we talked to, Liam Livingston. I think we talked to Liam Livingston about it. he as franchise players tend to just be able to get off the plane and go right let's go where are we today it's a bit like sort of Beyonce on a world tour someone whispers to it they thought you're in Vancouver hello Vancouver and then just bangs out the hits maybe that's a little bit more as to what it's like being a modern cricketer I think it is I think the the amount of cricket there is even for guys who don't play franchise cricket the amount of international cricket there is it's just it does feel non-stop so I think when you do get a break it's good to sort of refresh mentally sometimes but also you know it's just a balancing act like how much do you rest and how much do you then need to play to get your intensity right so we shouldn't be fuddy duddies about it should we well exactly I was thinking maybe it's an old form of thinking play the President's Eleven and then you can play the Ashes thank you have you played the President's Eleven though and have a rest day as well during that game yeah maybe yeah how did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos.

22:34Jimmy Anderson:On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100 ,000 on camera. And even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man$10 ,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Can I just quickly ask Jimmy what his feeling is? Because you've been on very successful Ashes trips and very unsuccessful Ashes trips with different sides.

23:13Jimmy Anderson:Did you have a sense before those tours how they were going to go and what is your feeling this time, genuinely? Because obviously you always would say the same thing. Yeah, I think we've got a chance. But you must have an inkling before you go on those tours. Well, I've been on one successful Ashes trip. Yeah, but the successful... Five or six. More than most. But that's one more than pretty much every other cricketer that's ever favouring this. The problem is that in a place like Australia, if you lose one of the first two games, you are quicksand. Yeah, it's just like the media then jump on you, you walk you down the street for a coffee and people just abusing you.

23:50Oh, God. So it's just full on. And that's why quite often when teams go behind there, they do end up losing 3-4-5-0, which we did. But I think it's just, in 2010, we did have a real confidence within the group that we were in a good place to be able to, like, each player in that squad had played 30, 40, 50 tests and were on top form to be able to go and perform out there. It wasn't like we were best mates off the field. It was like we had a nice group, but it was more on the pitch. Everyone knew each other's strengths and weaknesses, and we just honed in on helping each other out and performing the way we did.

24:31And it helped that Australia, they didn't have a spin at the time, so the media were going at them a little bit more. A little bit like it is now, which is why I think England have got a good chance. The Australian media are a little bit going for that top three. Who's going to bat there? Do they play two all-rounders, Webster and Cam Green? When's Cummings going to play? There's question marks around their group, which I think is great for England.

24:54Jimmy Anderson:Good little stories already. see the whole point of this show was to get us excited to get the viewers and the listeners excited I'm excited do you feel more excited when you were when we started the show I was excited anyway just because I've got a very high base level of excitement for any cricket as we all have agreed but in the last 20 minutes it has gone up and I hope that that's the same for you watching at home Jimmy was saying it's the same like preparing for Christmas it's like you don't want to get ready too early you don't want to have Christmas burnout it's the same with the ashes I'm not quite ready for it yet because 21st feels early 21st is Perth it does feel early it feels like when the decorations go in the shops in September just give me a minute not yet to recover from the summer totally got Halloween first totally yeah first test Perth 4th of December second test Brisbane third test on the 17th which is Adelaide Christmas Day Melbourne and then the New Year test in Sydney on the 3rd of January that's a nice long time as well for us to kick back and let's just still be in it if we can be in it Melbourne Sydney then it's on isn't it do you know what I mean like that's if England are in the mix by the fourth test I'm sort of I'm completely exhausted by you know dream 11s combined 11s I'm just like so what yeah that's never gonna happen but like best cricketers beginning with S it doesn't matter worry about it yeah but Steve Smith why would Scott Boland but why would like to do is not necessarily go through the whole team but player for player which is the strongest squad on paper well if you put both teams side by side in the batting order, let's do a combined 11 no no let's not do a I'd say out of the Australian team 3 maybe 4 get into the strongest England team oh what really I think so yeah wow I think Kawaja gets in at the top of the order failing eyes I think Smith gets in you squeeze him in somewhere maybe three route four combined eleven yeah Brook and Head is a toss up I love Travis Head I think he's a great player really exciting but Harry Brook's also this incredible talent it's Harry Brook so that's like a at five I wouldn't know who to pick there the other position is a wicket keeper Jamie Smith Alex Carey bit of a toss up between them two.