The Greatest Fielder of All Time: Jonty Rhodes

15:18Tommy Stewart:point of view as an opponent you kind of think well last season he played with freedom because there was no real expectation and now suddenly there's expectation and how does he handle that pressure and and to be fair I never thought he would be this effective in the second season because you kind of work plans out you know you you see a player first time around you You've been taken by surprise. And then you work your plans. And like Jimmy said, I mean, there's kind of the in-swinging leg stump Yorker executed perfectly has been the only ball that's kept him quiet. But, you know, throughout the tournament, he's just kept going.

15:53Tommy Stewart:And this is year two. So really incredible.

15:56Jonty Rhodes:I love the in-swinging leg stump Yorker at 90 miles an hour. We think that's the best.

16:02Tommy Stewart:That'll work.

16:06Tommy Stewart:that's just to keep him quiet that's just to that's hopefully yeah just to get him off strike

16:13Jonty Rhodes:yeah get jai's world back on strike yeah oh my god what a phenomenon what's a phenomenon has anyone heard him speak has he done any interviews i haven't even heard him speak no i haven't i

16:25James Anderson:mean what's but what's he gonna say i'm 15 and amazing yeah yeah what do you yeah what do you want me to be. Can you leave me alone? I've got to do my f***ing homework. Yeah, yeah.

16:38Jonty Rhodes:Interest blew in.

16:42James Anderson:So can I try and get my head around this European T20 Premier League? So what are we saying then? So there's six teams and you're co-owning one of the Dutch ones, the Rotterdam Dockers, right? Rotterdam. Okay. So how did this all come about and how does one, asking for a friend, do you mean how does one become a franchise co-owner well that's that's a very good question wasn't something

17:09Tommy Stewart:that i was i was looking i was looking for various opportunities through different sports ips i mean and and that's that's the amazing thing that sport has become business and and obviously i'm i'm a cricket guy i've also been involved with tennis in the past and a friend of mine who was the commercial manager for the Punjab franchise when I was there for three seasons. He's done a whole lot of different IPs, raised funds from sponsorship perspective. And he just kept saying, hey, Jonty, we got to do something together where we're not just the salaried consultant. You know, let's keep looking for something where we can get in at the development of the league.

17:49Tommy Stewart:And not necessarily just cricket. Because that's, you know, the amazing thing is sport in India is picking up in a big way. And, you know, obviously cricket's most of the eyeballs, most of the sponsorship and the money goes there. But there's 1.4 billion people. Not everybody can play for the Indian team. So from that perspective, for the last two, three years, we've been kind of looking at different opportunities. And he came back to me and just said, hey, here's one that we must go. And it's like tomorrow, we've got to put in an expression of interest. And what do you think? And I was all over it.

18:19Tommy Stewart:I mean, I've retired twice as a player, three times as a coach. And, you know, And I'm running out of avatars with regards to what can I come back as in cricket? And it's weird because it just never leaves you. I've stopped coaching at the IPL. This is my second season of not coaching cricket. But I'm actually a corporate coach. So I took cricket lessons, high performance in business. And it's all cricketing analogies from 92 to my playing career until 2003. and then 15 years of management where the IPL is quite an interesting scenario. You've got great players, young players from all over the world and all over India.

19:03Tommy Stewart:And all over India are so different because I live in South Goa and three hours drive to North Goa is like a different state. So this diversity across India is immense. And then you bring in this sort of group of international players from all over who look at the game differently, play the game differently. So that's, you know, it's been something that cricket from my perspective, I'm really excited about getting in as an owner because I don't have to do anything. That's, I've had to kind of remind myself that John T, you actually had to make sure that you don't go close to the field, don't even be tempted to hit a few balls, just stay the heck away and let the players get, you know, it's where you've got guys like Fuff and Classy who from the outset, you know, choosing players, selecting even coaches who they would like to have around.

19:49Tommy Stewart:I've just gone, okay, cool. I'm in I've got a small equity stake in this and I'm sitting quietly in the tent and hopefully there's a beer or two that's got my name on it while I'm watching the game

20:01James Anderson:It's like when me and Felix became the co-chairs of Over Invincibles for two years and then removed ourselves before we were sacked by the Ambani family We did have a nice time but we didn't have an equity stake didn't have anything didn't even have a stake didn't even have free stake because they gave our They gave our box away to the Ambani family when we were promised it once or twice a year. We can talk about that another time. But what's interesting, what's interesting about it is that the other co-owners are also massive legends, Jonty. You've got Raul Dravid, Steve Waugh, Chris Gale as other co-owners.

20:42James Anderson:And the players that already have been sort of enlisted, Mitch Marsh, Glenn Maxwell, Steve Smith, Tim David, Mitch Santner. That's a good lineup so far, isn't it?

20:51Tommy Stewart:Yeah. Yeah, it is pretty good. So the teams will have to, you know, and just from an ownership point of view, there's a very strong Kiwi setup. Kyle Mills and Nathan McCullum with the one franchise in Edinburgh. It's quite funny because, you know, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia have this big tri-nations rugby tussle. I know we all are part of the sort of the greater universe of rugby now, But there's always been for many years this tri-nations rugby contest in South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. So we kind of thought, well, because initially there were three of the franchisees announced.

21:29Tommy Stewart:And that was Steve Waugh and Glenn Maxwell and the Kiwis. So we came out with a very strong South African flavor in our setup. So we kind of hoping for a competition within the competition. Every time we, you know, it's hard playing against Australia. there's never really much antagonistic kind of feeling or vibe so we thought let's spice it up a bit you know those Aussies they take things way too easy way too relaxed so we thought we'd bring in no I'm kidding we know that far from it so yeah so we we've got we've got a whole bunch of Africans in or southern Africans in our setup and and we're looking forward to you know also taking the game not just into Europe but into southern Africa the game is growing and in isolation some some real pockets of intense cricket, but so isolated and, and trying to, and that's a, it's a big part and all the owners that we've spoken to.

22:20Tommy Stewart:And that's the beauty of this. We're not business modules who have, you know, we've got sort of empires that we don't want to join or you don't emerge with or share secrets with all the former players that are now co-owners in their, their various franchises. They've all worked together. You know, Raul Drava is the last guy that's come on board, but they've hit the ground running because everyone from Steve Waugh to, they've just worked, you know, almost as a team, the various co-owners. Because to make it successful in Europe, you're going to have to work together. And we understand that. And it's been really impressive from my perspective because I know nothing about business.

23:01Tommy Stewart:I mean, you might not think that, but I really know absolutely nothing.

23:05James Anderson:He knows a thing or two about a pick up and throw though. Yeah.

23:10Tommy Stewart:Well, not really the throw. I do have to throw myself at the stumps because I wasn't very good at the throw. So I kind of had to hang on to the ball.

23:18James Anderson:I don't know about that. I've seen quite a lot of YouTube compilations. I got it right eventually. I watch them when I'm sad. I've seen a lot of your stuff. Yeah, I worked.

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23:57James Anderson:I'd like to talk to Jimmy. Well, actually, Jimmy, I'd love you to talk to Jonty a little bit about that great South African team. And when you think of the John T. Rhodes era, some of those names are just legendary names really throughout the whole card. When you think of the John T. Rhodes era, what other characters spring to mind?

24:18Jonty Rhodes:Well, the first thing that's just flashed in my head then when you mentioned that was the 99 World Cup semi.

24:26Tommy Stewart:Against the Aussies. Yeah.

24:28Jonty Rhodes:And that was one of the great games. I know it didn't end well for South Africa, but that team, Donald, Pollock, Kluzner, because coming from a bowling point of view, Alan Donald was one that I watched constantly growing up. He was someone I wanted to... I was praying that England were playing them in the summer so I could watch him on TV. The famous battle with others, just incredible. everything that I wanted to be as a bowler was Alan Donald pace aggression passion like he had everything he obviously loved doing what he did as well but yeah I thought I think it was one of the probably one of the most talented teams that that didn't win anything that didn't win a major trophy like because the the quality in the group was you know so many so many players that you'd love to watch

25:26Tommy Stewart:yeah no I told England I mean That series was such a great series. It was an amazing, an amazing series. And the great thing about it, even though South Africa on paper were a really strong side, England were just solid. I mean, they just performed really, really well. And I think that's the great thing about Test cricket. It is an attrition. You know, a fast bowler can come on in a spell. He can sort of dominate proceedings. But, you know, you have to win three sessions a day for five days in a row because the team can come back. And the beauty of the English team at that stage was, even though we had the names or the reputation, they just had solid performers.

26:03Tommy Stewart:And it was a great test series, you know, down to the last in Headingley. And it was, you know, us in the last innings, I think we were about 30 for five, beating 200 or 200 and something. And we came about 10 or 15 runs short.

26:17Jonty Rhodes:Yeah, it was the last day, wasn't it?

26:19Tommy Stewart:And that was the last day of the series. And it was all hanging in the balance. So when you've got test cricket like that, in a generation where test cricket didn't have the fire, India weren't really a dominant force and it was just kind of the ashes. And yes, the South African team where we went, I think we were a fairly popular side, probably to Jimmy's point that we couldn't win anything. So people love to play against us in the final because Yud was, oh dear, they're not going to get there. But we were a side that, you know, we were actually a bunch of guys in the generation before. People, I know, county cricketers work and guys, but most of the guys that I started playing with at the World Cup in 92, we had four university students, an apple farmer, Adrian Caper, a lawyer, you know, two teachers in Fanny de Villiers, Jimmy, I don't know if you remember, Fanny Gafanny we used to call him, big out swing bowler.

27:10Tommy Stewart:But he was a teacher, big Brian McMillan. So these guys were real, real characters, you know. And it was a generation of cricket, you know, in the early 90s, was played by real characters. And the game changed. It became more business. There suddenly were microphones on the field where you couldn't really say what you wanted to say. You know, Jimmy, you speak about Alan Donald being fiery, but, you know, you could give as much lip as you wanted because nobody really picked it up unless you were, you know, a lip reading expert. So there were some great tussles and there were some great things said on and off the field.

27:45Tommy Stewart:But not much off the field, but some, you know, some real heated moments on the field. And the fast bowlers in that day, they were allowed to come right in your face and spray as much as they wanted to. So it was a great era. We as South Africans, you know, we disappointed not winning a World Cup in 96 and 99, probably both times number one ranked team in the world. But, you know, it was some exciting cricket for all of us. And the other option was going back to work. We would rather just play cricket regardless.

28:14James Anderson:Yeah, totally. when you all get together or you know a few of you get together does it does it still feel special do you still reminisce about that era so the likes of gary kirsten jack callis um you and teeny pollock voucher klusner donald i mean paul adams as well i mean amazing amazing characters like unbelievable characters that changed sort of cricket culture really what does it still feel especially when you're all together in a room at a dinner or something?

28:46Tommy Stewart:You know, there's been a few of these Masters leagues that have sort of propped up all over the place. And that's the only time the guys have really got together. You know, South Africa's quite a big place. There are a couple of guys. Herschel Gibbs, one of the naughtiest guys, and nice naughty. And one of the teammates that I still get hold of. Mark Boucher, I see, you know, IPLs and chat to him. But guys like, you know, Jacques and Mark Boucher love their golf. They play a lot of golf days. I'm not a golfer.

29:14James Anderson:Jonty, for listeners that don't know the significance of that 99 semifinal loss to Australia, can you explain it to them, please?

29:22Tommy Stewart:Yeah, you know, the ICC World Cup was, the previous one was in 1996, but because of the UK summer, it was then in 99. And as a South African side, we were captained by Hansi Kronier and we had Herschel, Gibbs and Gary Kirsten, Darryl Cullinan Jar Callis myself Hansi in the middle order so a really strong batting line and then we had like the real batters Klusner Pollock all the hitters that were there Mark Boucher and it was fascinating because you know a great bowling attack with Polly and Alan Donald Steve Illworthy somebody who played a bit of county cricket and just hit great areas and you know so from a bowling attack point of view we had guys that did everything and we got to the semi-final of the World Cup.

30:11Tommy Stewart:We had played Australia at Headingley in the pool stage and that was the infamous Herschel Gibbs went to go. He caught Steve Ward mid-wicket and went to toss the ball over his shoulder and he hit his knee on the follow-through with his hand and the ball popped out. And Australia, if they hadn't have beaten us in that game, they would have been ejected. They wouldn't have made the next round of the tournament. So it was a must-win game for them. they went on, Steve Waugh scored a fantastic hundred, you know, phenomenal batting, saw Australia through to the next round. So when we got to the semi-final, I mean, we knew it was going to be a tough game.

30:47Tommy Stewart:And it was a case of, we, I think might've been about 211, 212, I'm not exactly sure. We restricted Australia to that. And I remember Hansi Kronier captaining the side, walking off, just saying, man, you know, maybe that's 10 runs we've, because he was an amazing leader. You never once felt as a department, Jimmy, I don't know if it's ever been in the games and the teams that you've played in. You're the bowling attack or the leader of the bowling or you're batting in the top order and you read the paper the next day after the game. And the captain says, you know, in the first 10 overs, we didn't score enough runs.

31:22Tommy Stewart:Maybe that was the difference. Or we kind of leaked too many in the last five. So Hansi never spoke anything around negative outcomes or to any of the players laid blame at anybody's door. And he and I had been really good mates from school days. And we kind of walked off and he just said, oh, Joe, man, it's probably 10 runs. They've, you know, they've snuck in 10 runs extra. And, you know, in the end, it was one more run. You know, we were 50 without loss. And it wasn't a bad Australian team. Shane Ward came on and picked up four in the middle order. And just suddenly got us, you know, all over the place.

31:57Tommy Stewart:And in a semi-final, when you lose those sort of wickets. And I think the most frustrating thing is Jaak Hallis and myself put on a good partnership. We both got into our 40s. He might have got to 50. And then we both got out. So, you know, Lance Kluzer was the man of the tournament without even getting to the final. But he was just phenomenal. That whole, he was taking wickets. He was scoring and not just scoring runs. He was finishing games for South Africa. So, you know, from a point of view where he got us to the semifinal, probably on his own, bat and ball. And then we needed 12, eight runs off, nine runs off the last over to win it.

32:32Tommy Stewart:But we were already, nine wickets down. And he faced the first two balls of Damien Fleming, hit them both for four. And the next ball was a leg stump Yorker, in-swinging leg stump Yorker, Jim. Suriabanchi probably would hit it for six, but Klusner just kind of pushed it back and didn't run. And then the next ball, the fourth ball of the over, the same leg stump Yorker. The ball squeezed out and Donald wasn't sure because the ball came close to the stumps.

33:02Jonty Rhodes:So Alan went back to the stumps

33:04Tommy Stewart:And Lance started running And then Alan realised he had to run Dropped his bat And the ball literally The Australians tried to throw it at the non-strikers Ended up underarm dribbling to To the keeper And Gilchrist knocked the stumps And that was it We actually tied the game So it didn't lose the game They went through on a superior net run rate So we needed nine to win And we had eight two boundaries the first two balls and you know crazy crazy crazy crazy so

33:37Jonty Rhodes:he didn't need to run he didn't need to run he had like three balls he had two more balls

33:41Tommy Stewart:yeah two more balls to go still but it was a leg stump Yorker that in swinging leg stump Yorker it did us that's that ball it came down to those bloody bowlers

33:51James Anderson:hey yeah but also as you were saying great lessons have been learned and you can impart that knowledge now onto the next generation the generation after that it's a great story too and all the players at the Rotterdam Dockers. They'll hear all these stories over and over again, John. They're like, we get it, mate. You blew it. You f***ed bottled it. We got it. Enough about you.

34:13Tommy Stewart:He's such a great guy, man. I learned some big lessons there too because that was the last tournament that Bob Wilmer was the head coach and then he moved on to Pakistan. And Graham Ford came in and Graham's done some great work in county cricket and all around the world too at national level. And he just said, Jonty, man, you've got to become our finisher because you can't, you know, I had guys like Mark Klusner, Pollock, Balcher.

34:40James Anderson:Sessions. And once I got to 30 or 40

34:42Tommy Stewart:and there were 10 overs left, I felt like I had to go and hit the ball hard because these guys would clear the fence. And my cricket bat was almost like a hockey stick. So I didn't really back myself to hit boundaries and hit sixes. So he just said, Jonty, just run the ball in, man. You know, be there. Because if Klusner was batting with you in that semifinal, we would have won the semifinal. So don't worry about you having to hit the ball like a Kluzner or a Pollock. You're not those guys. But just be there at the end. Just be there and stay there. So I became the finisher in the South African team because of that 99 semifinal.

35:16Tommy Stewart:And I realized that, you know, everyone said, what do you say to Alan Donald when he walked out having dropped his bat? And I just said, I apologize. His job was to bowl Australia out. And he did that. He did his job. So he wasn't supposed to score the runs. That was, that's my job. So it was amazing. I mean, it was a tough lesson to learn, but certainly I was never going to forget it ever.

35:37James Anderson:It's a great story. Music to Jimmy's ears. He's done his job. He's bowled Australia out. It's not your job, Jim, is it? Not your job to win the game of the bat. No, it's not. No. Go and get Zach Corley to open the bowl in. See how you like it.

35:54Tommy Stewart:Yeah, exactly.

35:56Jonty Rhodes:Do you know, I just remember just like, As we were talking about, you know the 98 series? You know who played in that? This is really left field because it doesn't feel like a crossover. A very young Freddie Flintoff plays in the 98 South Africa series. He looks like he's sort of bowling medium pace and batting seven. It's such a weird crossover moment in cricket. Do you remember that, John T, young Freddie? What do you remember about young Fred?

36:19Tommy Stewart:I remember young Fred. He didn't have the baby fat of Suryavanshi, that's for sure. He was a solid unit already. and quite an unusual bowling action. And that's an interesting thing, you know, the swing bowlers, the guys who've got good rhythm, you can get into a, you know, you can kind of get into a feel of it, but somebody who comes in and bangs a ball in with a heavier action, they rush you and you feel a little bit uncomfortable. I'm not saying I can play, you know, I got to play against Malcolm Marshall at club cricket, one of the best exponents of swing bowling that I have ever, ever seen.

36:57Tommy Stewart:and he played club cricket in South Africa. So that was pretty amazing. But I think Freddie came with a really big reputation and in that season we all just targeted him because he had a tough time. And we as a South African team just came pretty hard at him. Right. I think the Aussies, I don't know, Jimmy, but what you've seen with the Australian guys is that they target a young player or one of the best players and they want to get on top of them early, early on. and impact the rest of the team. And we as a side just said, okay, we're all going to come hard at Fred Flintoff. But he, I mean, you could see he had the, you know, he had the ability.

37:37Jonty Rhodes:I'd love to speak to Fred about that.

37:39Tommy Stewart:In those days, an all-rounder was, it was really important. You know, in Test cricket, you needed a, you couldn't just have a batter who could bowl a bit or a bowler who could bat a bit. You needed a genuine all-rounder. And he certainly had the pedigree to become that.

37:52James Anderson:Yeah, yeah. I love that crossover of players. I was just formulating a potential idea or game. I haven't quite thought of it yet, but the oldest player you've played with and then just keep tracking it back to see where you get to.

38:06Jonty Rhodes:Yeah, because I was thinking, because John T and Jimmy, you two must have overlapped for like a year or two. Did you never play each other? I don't think we played against each other. You never would have played each other in any form? No. But yes, are you saying if John T played with Malcolm Marshall,

38:21James Anderson:for example? And who was the oldest person that Malcolm Marshall played with?

38:25Jonty Rhodes:So from Jimmy to John T to Malcolm Marshall, sometimes you could do like a hundred years in four cricketers.

38:30James Anderson:Yeah, probably. What's the greatest span you could get? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's something for the future. Another. In the here and now, I would like to introduce John T. Rhodes to match in Tendulka. A meeting of minds. Hello. Hello. John T, do not be alarmed. This man is known to us. he is trustworthy just about and he is genuinely related distantly related to Sachin Tendulkar

39:02Tommy Stewart:all right

39:03James Anderson:I can tell

39:08Tommy Stewart:straight off the bed straight off the middle of the straight bed I could see

39:11James Anderson:uncanny uncanny he joins us regularly for just joy and unity and he brings the whole thing together he brings the whole cricket world together he has become a cult phenomenon in cricket i said cult he also does lots of quizzes with us and i think if i'm led to believe you have a john t roads quiz i do greg thank you well

39:34Jonty Rhodes:basically yeah thanks john c i i come on i learn about players like yourself and then i formulate

39:39James Anderson:a quiz around that so i've done a quiz that celebrates your life amazing thank you is it is that i try and guess what it's called is it all roads lead to i know what it's called good

39:53Jonty Rhodes:well i was rude it kind of falls into the genre of sort of a meta biopic quiz um are you familiar with back to the future oh i am which ones number one this celebrates the life and times of john t this is called welcome to roads where we're going we don't need roads we need johnson roads nice

40:12James Anderson:It was bound to be in that area.

40:14Jonty Rhodes:What happened to the Long and Winding Roads? Did Sharky say we weren't allowed to use the Long and Winding Roads? That's what you told me it was called yesterday. Sharky was worried that we'd get sued by the Beatles. Johnsy, if you do ever write... He's always worried about getting sued.

40:25James Anderson:No one wants to sue us. There is nothing to be gained by suing us. Sharky's obsessed with the Beatles suing us. They don't need the money. The Beatles are busy. They're making four movies. They're fine. And half of them are dead. They're fine.

40:43Jonty Rhodes:if you um john t do you have a writer autobiography i don't think you've got one

40:47Tommy Stewart:out yet but i do have a side hustle i actually in in 1998 a book came out called john t fruits of the spirit and that my mother bought all 5 000 copies that we brought up sorry it's not available anymore but man is it yeah that's why you can't find it there'll be a tail ender listing that's

41:05James Anderson:got a copy of that believe me yeah i'm sitting in my daughter's bedroom because my bedroom's

41:11Tommy Stewart:full of my John T.

41:15Jonty Rhodes:It's no space. Sleeping on a bed of your own books.

41:20James Anderson:That's where we're all going. Okay.

41:23Jonty Rhodes:I would have called the book Road Trip or John T. Rhodes, quite the catch.

41:31Tommy Stewart:Yeah, should have.

41:32Jonty Rhodes:Yeah. Anyway, here we go. This is the quiz. Got you. We are time travellers hopping in a metaphorical DeLorean and we're going to travel back in time and walk into a pivotal scene in johnsy's life outside of his playing career and then we're going to guess what happened and find out through johnsy what actually happened does that make sense yes it does yes okay we're gonna happen the deLorean this is the glorian okay what's that what's that that was a car okay okay we walked into a scene of johnsy's life we're in the University of Natal. Is that right?

42:10Tommy Stewart:Yes, Peter Marisburg. Yes, Natal.

42:12Jonty Rhodes:John T is young, handsome, athletic and clearly destined for greatness. The question is, what university class does John T walk into? He ends up qualifying with honours and finds a full-time job in this sector. Guys, quick guess. What did John T study? He's gone on to find a career in this as well. Oh, found a career in it. He's not cricket. Oh, I was going to say sociology. So he's not... I was going to say agritulture. Okay. agriculture the hoiter midwicket

42:42Tommy Stewart:the hoiter midwicket cow corner yeah yeah exactly spoken by a true outswinger

42:48James Anderson:it didn't be easy would it be some I mean you said the thing is you said you're not businessy but is it some sort of business thing John T don't believe

42:57Tommy Stewart:don't believe everything I say right

43:00Jonty Rhodes:John T hit him with it yeah I have

43:04Tommy Stewart:I have a commerce degree I became a business banker worked for Standard Bank when I retired from cricket. So I went back to work. So I have a commerce degree from the University of Natal and worked for Standard Bank as a business banker. And then we launched Pro 20 Cricket in South Africa in 2004. Pro 10? After my one season, Pro 20.

43:27Jonty Rhodes:20, okay.

43:27Tommy Stewart:After my one season with Gloucester, yeah, they thought it would be a good addition to cricket in South Africa. So yeah. John, what do you say is more important

43:35Jonty Rhodes:for a young cricket star? like a good accountant or a good PR team? Great question.

43:42Ah, that is interesting.

43:45Tommy Stewart:I would say the accountant, because especially nowadays with young players, I mean, there's tax implications all around the world. You're hopefully getting into a franchise and it's not just in your backyard. You play in India, you come and play for the Rotterdam Dockers in Europe. We're a Netherlands-based team. We have a company in the Netherlands. So suddenly, you know, you have different tax implications. First and foremost, that's, you know, whether it's PR, that can just sort itself out. But tax-wise, sorry, I'm coming again from my finance background, right? But for me, most important, tax.

44:24Jonty Rhodes:Okay. Okay, we're hopping back in the car. Yeah. And next, we're going to go to Jonty. Jonty is 20, it's 1999. 1999, Jonty. He's 29 years old. He nervously walks into the office of a South African cricket board to ask a significant question. He becomes a trailblazer in doing so. What question does he ask the South African cricket board? Okay, I'm going to guess the equivalent of a central contract, but for South African cricketers, that's my guess. Greg?

44:55James Anderson:He asks for wrap round shades and zinc be mandatory for every player.

45:04Tommy Stewart:Good answer. Go on, Jon T. The answer is paternity leave. Oh, good one.

45:11Jonty Rhodes:Jon T was the first player in, well, first big international cricketer to officially request and be granted paternity leave while playing for South Africa. No way. And paved the way for players all over the world to be granted. Fascinating. That's great. Good moment. Because really famously, Alan Bord, when he was, wasn't when Alan Bord was batting, they put a message up on the screen saying congratulations on the birth of your child while he was still while he was batting yeah while he was batting he was he was like after the second session okay we we had loads of these but we're pushed for time yeah so uh we will jump quickly back into the dorian

45:56Jonty Rhodes:get in the car we're back in south africa it's 1992 johnsy has put down his back for a moment the Barcelona Olympics may be calling what happened there what sport was he going to get called up for to be an Olympian oh Jimmy knows yeah oh I'm guessing Johnsy this hockey definitely yeah Johnsy this is a fascinating part of your life where you almost became an Olympian but then quite yeah

46:19Tommy Stewart:I mean 92 and 1996 there were opportunities where could have gone from a World Cup cricket to an Olympic Games for for hockey one for cricket one for hockey yeah wow Wow. Exciting times to have been in South Africa at that stage. Why did you not go to the Olympics? So, in 92, we weren't democracy yet. So, cricket was the only sport that was unified. So, we were the United Cricket Board of South Africa in cricket. Everything else had a white governing body and a non-white governing body. So, because we got invited back to play at the World Cup in 92, before unification or before democracy, the hockey board were hoping that we would get a late invite to Barcelona.

47:00Tommy Stewart:but you don't get invited to the Olympics. I mean, let's face it like a four-year journey. What a life. You love rolling the dice a little bit, John T.

47:09James Anderson:And I think that about you. You are the person that we saw on that cricket field when we first fell in love with cricket. The Warthog. You are that Warthog that we fell for. And look, everyone, to be honest, everyone loved Pumba, didn't they, from the Lion King? And that's you.

47:25Jonty Rhodes:Exactly. You're a Warthog with a commerce degree. Yeah, there you go. And a reverse sweep.

47:33Tommy Stewart:John T. Thanks, John T.

47:34James Anderson:Thank you so much for joining us on TailEnders. We better let you get back to your surfing and to look after your kids, actually. You've neglected them for an hour now. We will please finish. Excellent. Is that a note from your daughter? My daughter, yeah.

47:49Tommy Stewart:She wants her room back.

47:51James Anderson:I've had a similar message from our producer, Sharky. So John T., who also lives in my house and I picked him up from school earlier. John T thanks so much for being on the podcast today we really love love chatting to you and we just think you're great so 26th of August the European T20 Premier League starts games in the Netherlands and in Ireland on the 26th of August and we'll follow it keenly we'll see where that leads to and John T we'll speak to you soon

48:16Tommy Stewart:fantastic guys thanks for having me mate cheers John T go well cheers

48:23Jonty Rhodes:bye

48:24James Anderson:lovely man what a great man did not disappoint prowling prowling around thank you for listening to this personal production you're welcome Jimmy matching Felix shan't need a movie I will see you next week when we are going to be reunited in person when we have I'm so looking forward to that cleared the decks and we're going to be hanging out next Tuesday so see you next Tuesday go well cheers five lives so here's the

48:55Tommy Stewart:first ball of this series

48:56James Anderson:All the cricket you love.

48:58Tommy Stewart:Check for LBW. Ouch. Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground, this girl. Hear ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a fourth cricket and it's the huge one. Jeez. Settle down, tough. Sorry, mate. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I'm living every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

49:28James Anderson:He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history.

49:31Jonty Rhodes:He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status.

49:44James Anderson:Guess who we're talking about yet?

49:45Jonty Rhodes:That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

50:02Transcription by CastingWords