Will Jacks of all trades and the rest of the Ashes squad

0:00Jimmy Anderson:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30Jimmy Anderson:at Whole Foods Market. Imagine buying a toy for your kid, but it doesn't come with batteries. That sucks. But honestly, it's even worse when you buy business software. You end up with fragmented, disconnected systems that cost a fortune and don't talk to each other. Odoo completely changes that. Odoo comes fully complete with all your business apps perfectly integrated and working together seamlessly. It's everything your business needs in one place, saving you time, headaches, and serious money. Stop paying for missing pieces. Go to odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com to learn more. Hello and welcome to Tailenders.

1:12Jimmy Anderson:Hello and thank you for having us on Tailenders. It feels weird without the second engine. Yeah. No Felix this week. He, at the time of recording, is at a wedding. He's also been to New York. He's busy. I don't think we've ever done a hotel in us without Felix. Oh, I think we have, but it's, it's not ideal, but it's, you know, we're still going to do our very best. Matching Tendulka, Jimmy Anderson. Hello. We will hear from Felix as the podcast goes on because he does have a bone to pick with Rob Key, Brendan McCollum, and the rest of the motley crew of men's test selectors. We'll get to that in a second.

1:54Jimmy Anderson:This is GeForce Greg James, Majin Tendulkar and Jimmy Anderson. Majin Tendulkar now is a fully qualified event host for corporate book engagements. In the space of a week, he was hosting an event for my book. And then the next night was on duty for Jimmy Anderson's book. Jimmy, how did you find Majin? Because he smashed my event and I said, you're going to be great tomorrow in Tunbridge Wells. How was he? he brought the house down in tunbridge wells not literally it's still standing as a theater but yeah yeah he smashed it it's great thanks mate yeah i was very touched a last minute standing for felix who had a wedding i was another one yeah another wedding i was very touched that you asked jim i was a bit nervous and you didn't know there was a few tail enders there obviously but a lot of people wouldn't have a clue who i was there's a lot of proper cricket badges there so i had to bring them on board but still keep it light i could tell he was nervous but when i did the meet and greet at the start like there's 40 or 50 people at the meet and greet and a few people did ask is that matching's nose i can see poking out the curtain side of stage and i was like yes matt's standing in tonight but so they were they were happy but i thought it went really it went really well i know you were nervous but did i come across nervous because i was really trying to hold it not trying to be nervous in front of you so i didn't want to give that nervous energy to you so i was like i've got to be fresh and i just got i don't want to let you know that i am myself after the third shower that you had i thought you might be nervous here

3:41Jimmy Anderson:well look you for me speaking personally on my behalf you were the first name on the team sheet you were not an understudy i was in bristol i thought there's only one man for the job 11th coolest man in bristol and you brought the house down with your performance not with your nose although you could have brought the house down with your nose fantastic let's get how are you how are you how are you great because you've had a very busy week how are you in yourself honestly don't worry about me i'm having a great time i'm i'm completely buzzing yeah it's fine I've had a week where I've met The Rock again I've interviewed him I told him about the chapter in my book that was about him he seemed fine with it we're all good tail enders today we want to talk about the big news which is something we're so excited about we've been excited about this for a long long time the England men's test team that will compete in the Ashes has sort of been announced in terms of the squad the squad has been announced so shall I just go through the team?

4:41Jimmy Anderson:So Ben Stokes, captain, Joffre Archer, Gus Atkinson, Shoa Bashir, Jacob Bethel, Harry Brook as the new vice captain. Lots to talk about there because it was Oli Pope. Brydon Kass, Zach Crawley, Ben Duckett, Will Jax is a surprise, but not to those who know how great Will Jax is. Oli Pope, Matthew Potts, Joe Root, Jamie Smith as keeper, Josh Tong or Tong, I think as Jimmy says, and Mark Wood. so shall we start with I want to go with the let's go to the pace attack to begin with because Jimmy that is your area of expertise that's a quick pace attack if they can all play and they stay fit that is a good lineup for those Australian bouncy wickets would you agree yes I would I think there are not really many surprises in the on the seam bowling front, the pace bowling front, I think probably, you know, Matthew Potts, not a surprise, but that was probably the one spot where you're like, who do they pick in that role as a sort of, I'd say potentially a backup bowler to start with, but I wouldn't be surprised if he does play a part because certainly the last two tours I've been on, it's been a more seamer-friendly type environment where the wickets do assist, or some of the wickets do assist seam bowlers.

6:03so I wouldn't be surprised if he plays a big part. The only sort of thing about when you pick a squad like that is you've got Joffre who's just coming back from injury, a long layoff. You've got Mark Wood who we know had a few injuries over the course of his career. So it does put a bit of pressure on the group, I think, when you've got players like that in the squad. Josh Tong as well has had injuries. And I think when you pick bowlers that bowl 90 miles an hour, it's inevitable that they're going to get injured, So they're going to have to be managed through the series. But I know that the Lions squad will be in Australia at the same time.

6:40So there'll be bowlers in there as well that are sort of next in line. They'll be out in Australia. They'll be playing cricket. They'll be acclimatised. So they can, if anything does happen, there are some really good backup bowlers that could come in and do a job.

6:53Jimmy Anderson:Feels like we do have more batters. We have strength and depth of the batters more so than the bowlers. you're missing a couple of well you're missing Chris Wokes as a sort of as a workhorse bowler because of the injury he sustained during the India series that's one of the names you could have they went for Potts you could have gone for Sam Cook as a sort of you know as a as that workhorse sort of bowler but do we is that a fair assessment that there's that the batting is slightly stronger than the bowling there? I don't. No, I think the bowlers they've picked, the bowlers they've picked are, you know, that's a strong sort of group of bowlers as I've seen for a long time.

7:38Jimmy Anderson:If they're all fit and they all fire. Yeah. I think the one thing for me, the one thing that's missing, I'd say, like some people believe in this, some people don't. I don't see a leader of the attack. I don't see the person that sets the tone right at the start. and then the ability to pass information on and really communicate well and assess conditions quickly, get into the game like that. I'd say that was kind of my job in my career, but Brodie was also that sort of character. So when we played together, we had two guys that could lead the attack and help the rest of the group out. There's not that experience there, I wouldn't say.

8:18But to be honest, Ben Stokes is probably the closest you get to that. but obviously he's captain as well and also an injury

8:25Jimmy Anderson:sort of yeah again there's that injury doubt behind it yeah and I mean I feel like he could be pivotal in any success England will have in Australia if he can stay fit manages overs you know we've seen how crucial he can be with the ball the spells he can bowl but I just worry that if he bowls one too many ten over spells as that could actually be to his detriment so i think managing him will be key as well well look matching we we can we can talk about this if you want to the two big elephants in the room is that as of yet not to say it won't happen because that's the nature of changing the changing of the guard and in you know bringing in new players but we don't have a straight up jimmy and broadie replacement as yet and that is going to be tricky and it's going to be tricky for fans and it's going to it's going to it does raise questions and you go oh you were you were future-proofing but you maybe did it slightly too early and we don't really have a proper replacement and also Mark Wood and the injuries and Joffre would be great if they're firing but it does feel like it's an England fan we're going to be missing we're going to be missing Jimmy and Brodie out there aren't we absolutely yeah it does feel does feel weird also i think any five of the squad have done a ashes in australia is that good to have that sort of like you're gonna be new blood fresh blood going out there or is that a lack of experience no i don't think that's an issue i think it's it's different so it could be eye-opening for some but i think the characters they've got in the group i don't i don't think it'll really matter to to them they probably probably a good that they've not experienced loss before because we've only won once there in the last 40 years.

10:12Give it time.

10:14Jimmy Anderson:By January, by the new year. Yeah. I feel like, you know, Chris Wokes was that bowler to lead the attack. And obviously without him, it does leave a little bit of a hole. But then, you know, series like this can throw up those sorts of characters and someone is going to have to step up. If not, two or three bowlers will have to step up and do that sort of job. I think that's the thing. It doesn't feel like there's someone that's come through that they didn't have a replacement in place that was going to naturally take the place of Brody or Jimmy. I don't know why they've ushered that in, that new era without having that in place.

10:54Jimmy Anderson:I don't really get it. But obviously they know what they're doing, hopefully. You've got to hope. You've got to hope they know what they're doing. look it would be it would be remiss of me not to ask Jimmy this question feel free to tell me to f*** off as you normally do you don't normally need an invitation f*** off

11:20Jimmy Anderson:when you saw the squad was there any part of you that thought I might have been on that or I wish I was on that no no I've not really giving it much thought to be honest I've properly thrown myself into all the cricket I've been involved with this year and I feel like that's where my career is at now I'm a Lancashire player I'm invested in trying to make Lancashire a better team we've had an up and down year without getting into the ins and outs of Lancashire's season we're talking about the ashes here but I feel like that's something I want to try and be involved in for as long as I can be to try and get Lancashire back into the first division of the championship try and win trophies, you know we got to finals there this year, didn't quite make it to the final but there were positive signs there that we can do some special things over the next couple of years I love hearing you say that as a friend of yours but as a lifelong Jimmy Hansen fan I really love hearing you say that and maybe us fans need to have some closure on it for now No, I'm not All right, come on.

12:31Jimmy Anderson:Grow up, Machen. Grow up. Not everything can last forever. But look, we'll be watching and we'll be supporting, obviously, across the winter with the Ashes. It is the most exciting thing that happens in cricket. The Ashes for the men's and the women's team is the biggest thing. That is the biggest thing. So we'll be watching with interest. And I'm looking forward to those sleepless nights and those early mornings and those late nights at Christmas and everything and the Boxing Day test and all of that that comes with it. That is what we love. We live and breathe that sort of stuff. Let's talk about Will Jacks.

13:05Jimmy Anderson:I love Will Jacks. I think he's an incredible, incredible cricketer, not just batter. I think he's got an amazing cricket brain. We talked a few podcasts ago about him talking about how he sets himself up as a fielder in the 100 and how he predicts where things are going to go and how hard he works on his game when he's not got a bat in his hand. It is, all that said, a slight surprise selection in terms of where the test team was headed. His name was never really bandied around as a possible addition. What's the thinking with that selection, Jimmy? Is that a form pick? Obviously, it's a talent pick, but he's had an amazing summer.

13:44Jimmy Anderson:What do you think Brendan McConaughey's thinking about with that? I don't know, really. I think he's had a good summer in white ball. I'm not sure what his red ball record is for Surrey, but I don't think that really matters in terms of the way England go about picking their squads but yeah he's he's he does things that other people can't he's he's an incredibly destructive batter you know if he was to bat seven or eight then it's just it's just ridiculous to think what he could do uh he could open the batting you know he could do he can bat any position like he's he's that he's that good and he obviously bowls a bit of offspin as well and he's a better bowler than just bowling a bit of offspin i think potentially they've picked on his character as well you know they know him well from you know he's played test cricket before he's been in many uh england squads before as well so that they know him as a person and it does take a particular character i think to to be successful in australia again he might have played a bit in australia and got a good record so there'll definitely be some sort of science behind it as well it might i don't think it'll just be a gut feel from the selectors but how good a spinner is he?

14:51Yeah, he's decent. He bowls a lot in white ball cricket. He's got good attributes for an off spinner, tall, decent action, spins it if the wicket allows. But I don't, I'd be surprised if that's why he's been picked, because he bowls a bit. But yeah, I just Oh, go on, Jim.

15:11Jimmy Anderson:Well, I was just going to say about his IPL credentials in terms of a big match player and someone who doesn't seem to ever be overawed by an occasion and that felt like when i saw his name i thought i get that because the ashes requires not only extraordinary cricket talent but it requires a that this the the mindset to turn down the outside noise and just to go you know what i'm not overall by playing in front of 80 000 90 000 people the biggest sport in the country the press the scrutiny the the social media noise he does seem he's a very level-headed bloke isn't he he is yeah yeah and i think again as i said about his character i think that's probably one of the reasons he's been picked on the on the tour because of how he can deal with everything that's thrown at you on an ashes trip but it's i've been like there's some good players that have been left out jordan cox has been around you know he's nearly made his test debut twice i think but got injured both times been really unlucky with injuries so you know there'll be people like that that are feeling maybe miffed that they've been let out left out but um yeah you know it's a it's a long it's a long trip and I think you know that Lions squad as I said I think could end up playing a part as well in the outcome of the Ashes.

16:34Jimmy Anderson:It's a really interesting point you made about him potentially opening or being no not potentially opening being able to open he is a very versatile batter and maybe you're right that he is seen as a as a like-for-like replacement for one of the frontline batters so he could do a crawley role actually could do a ducket role could go in at three as pope could go lower down the order and do a jamie smith kind of thing so that that's i guess that plays in his his favor doesn't it yeah definitely and i think this this you know that's why jordan cox got picked in the past i think because he could cover a number of positions you want that versatility from your spare batter you want to be able to cover any eventuality really and I think he does that you could say he's a Jacks of all trade hey, well Jacks of all trade new name, born, matching Tendulkar Saturday 27th of September 6pm, mark it on your calendars the well Jacks of all trade thank you, go on then what's your take on Oli Pope losing the vice captaincy to Harry Brook?

17:37Are you asking me or matching?

17:39Jimmy Anderson:Matching first I was going to ask this Jimmy apart from obviously if Stokes gets injured then he has to step up but does a vice captain have to do anything else in the changing room or is it just like is it more a ceremonial role it's like you are second in command but otherwise if Stokes is fit is the vice captain does he do anything in the changing room or on the pitch I guess you might have a bit more responsibility around saying things in the dressing room or discussing things with the captain to figure out tactics or game plans and stuff. But no officially you don't have any other duties other than standing in for the captain if something happens to him.

18:27As happened to me on the Ashes in 20... Was it 20, 21?

18:34Jimmy Anderson:Yeah, the COVID one. Yeah, it was the COVID one when Rooty got ill and he couldn't make it to the ground so I had to go and do the whole post-series analysis interviews with every broadcaster going and we just got beat 4-0 I think or 5-0 You do raise a good point Matt Chin but the point is that you have to be ready to go if needed as Jimmy was saying that he had to just go and do the sort of grunt work of it In a way, it's a thankless task because you're suddenly thrust into this situation where you're captaining the most famous cricket team, one of the most famous cricket teams in the world. And you're compared to one of the greatest cricketers and arguably captains ever.

19:21Jimmy Anderson:And Ollie Pope did receive a lot of just a lot of noise. So it's a horrible, in a way, it's a horrible gig, really. It's like, in a way, you can't win. but i think harry brooke has got something else about him where he just seems to shrug everything off when he's batting he shrugs stuff off he seems unflappable and it'll be an amazing interesting test for him i think don't think it's like when stokes does retire it's more likely that brooke would take over than pope so that's more of a it seems it's leading that way it looks like that's where what they're thinking yeah but i i feel for ollie pope because there's been so much chat around his position and the fact that he's vice captain is it harder to drop him and now people are going to try and add things up and go right they've taken the vice captaincy off him does that make it easier to potentially put a bethel in at number three which is what you know that i mean i'm i've not got any inside knowledge i'm just going off what i what what the speculation in the media is and it's not always right to do that but that's the way and i saw rob key being interview the other day he said no it's nothing to do with that we just think that harry brooke's the the sort of right guy for the job whatever so um but it'd be interesting to see whether you know what happens with that position now you know if he doesn't if ollie pope starts doesn't get off to a good start do they then bring a bethel in but does bethel start like there's so many questions uh that i think this this decision brings up it's very interesting this bethel start because actually on the on the form the last time we saw him in a test match was that oval test match on that last morning against Siraj and I you know in that crunch moment based on that alone and I know how good Jacob Bethel is and he is a supreme talent like that's the last time we saw him are you throwing him into the first ashes test at number three not on that definitely not so then do you go all right pope if pope's not around are you going will jacks it's it's real i think it's it's going to be an interesting it's going to be a really interesting ashes i really can't call what the hell's going on and but i do i do really like the idea of harry brooke being vice captain and maybe being captain one day you've said so many times jim that this guy is we've got incredible batters we've got joe root we're living in the joe root era but you tip Harry Brook to go on to even greater things don't you?

21:50Jimmy Anderson:You've seen something in his game that is potentially even better um yeah maybe I made that up I mean it's going to be so like a ridiculous effort from Harry Brook to outdo Joe Root in the number of test runs he's going to end up with and Joe Root is someone that I don't think you can really compare anyone to and they're completely I think they're completely different batters. But Harry Brook is someone who's got both the temperament and ability to go on and do something special for England. So I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't quite get as many runs as Joe Root but ends up averaging more than him in Test cricket.

22:34Something like that.

22:35Jimmy Anderson:In a way, it doesn't matter what we think about the men's Ashes series. But it does matter what Felix White thinks. And Felix has sent us not one, but two messages. Sharky? Hit it. Roll up. Hashtag 10 ends of World Uniting Takeover. Sorry I can't be with you all today. I've got a wedding, which I can't miss. But my only contribution to the show would have been today. Why are there no left-arm spinners in that England score going to Australia? That is going to significantly damage my viewing experience, but also the viewing experience of the entire nation that's trying to stay awake through the night.

23:14Jimmy Anderson:We need flight and goal. loop sharp turn getting it up and down not even sharp turn no turn aka jack leach or liam dawson get them in or i'm gonna stay up for less long period of time okay okay you got that go well cheers just realize that message that makes it seem like i'm insinuating that jack leach and liam dawson get no turn which i no way was okay so you can't get me on that i just love them especially Jack Leach and all left arm spinners all around the world go Will cheers cheers Sharky the lamgistical question you still there I am am I still phased up there you are phased it up yeah does he get a show fee for that contribution certainly not I was just I was just wondering because you know in future I just think I might just phone in a voice note and anyway so Jimmy thoughts on those points from Felix there's a chance we'd see some left arm spin with Jacob Bethel but yeah it is I mean like from a boring sort of like tactical point of view do left arm spinners have success in Australia I don't think they really do there's only you know spinners in general don't have that much success in Australia and I don't think spinners will potentially play a huge part I think there's a chance that we might go into a test match without one and use Joe Routon or Bethel or Jax as your spinning option if you need it to change the pace of the game but yeah i mean i've i do feel i feel for jack leach you know he's he's sort of just been discarded really i saw him at finals day he was there with somerset and we had a good chat bumped into him in the lunchroom and he was like how the how the tailenders i was like yeah they're good he's like how's the family and then after he's like god i've just asked you about tailenders before i was like get your priorities I love Jack.

25:09Jimmy Anderson:We should get him on during the Ashes for some little chats and things. I do miss him. Is he doing well? Is he all right? Yeah, I think he's had a really good year for Somerset. He's had a great year. He's happy with how he's performed. Obviously, they've won finals day, but he didn't play. But he's obviously a part of that squad, matchday squad. He's taken wickets in the championship, played the 50-over competition. So I think he's sort of similar. It felt like we were saying the same sorts of things. we've made peace that that's potentially gone and now we're just committing to to doing our best for our counties that's really nice well i hope he's still listening every now and then and jack leach always like it's it's like a it's like a an eternal go well for jack leach we just want him to go well forever so go well jack cheers and we'd love to get you on for the ashes we're going to do some really exciting shows around the ashes as well we've got some some nice plans to make sure where we keep you up to date with everything and get you really excited for it.

26:08Jimmy Anderson:That first Ashes Test starts in Perth on Friday, November the 21st, which is really not far away. It's excitingly not far away. It is less than two months away, and that is making me fizz with excitement. Optus Stadium in Perth on that Friday, which means we can watch and just be tired for that whole weekend, which is very exciting. Jimmy, can you please dig deep and give me instinctively your starting 11 for that first Ashes test? Batting order. Let's go. Crawley, Duckett. I've heard of him. Pope, Brute, Brook, Stokes, Smith, Cass, Archer, Tongue.

27:01and then either Bashir or Wood fitness and conditions dependent

27:12Jimmy Anderson:alright so really what you're saying there is if they're both fit and ready you would start with your two big guns in Perth to get the advantage one nil up Wood Archer bang bang one at each end could be incredible if you're going to play both of them in the same team Perth is the place to do it and I think Josh Tong as well bowling 90 plus at the minute bowling brilliant like I just feel like that is sort of a bit yeah it's frightening to think that they could be playing at Perth and because it's quite a new ground as well the pitch is a little bit indifferent like you don't really know what you're going to get but they generally do carry through, you've got a bit of pace and bounce.

27:57So I think if, you know, there'd be a great place to, with that team to start. It could be, it could really hit Australia from ball one really, really hard and put a marker down for the whole series.

28:09Jimmy Anderson:Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited anyway, but I'm excited by the possibility of Kars, Tong, Wood, Archer, Stokes as backup. I love that. That does feel a bit frightening. It feels we're on the way there to the Hazelwood Star Cummins sort of matchup, aren't we? We're on the way, obviously the experience and the whatever and the record, but we're on the way to the raw pace and bounce and excitement and sort of terror. I like that. That's nice. Rapid. So there's things to be excited about. This is not a, you think it's going to be close, this Ashes? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I think it could be very close. I think there could be a massive deciding factor, and we've talked a lot about England there, but I'm hearing that Cummins has got a back injury.

28:59They're sort of being a little bit cagey about it, or Australia. They're not saying whether he'll be fit for the first test or not, but depending on how serious that injury is, that could be massive. If they go into the first test without their, not just their captain, but their lead strike bowler, that could be huge for England and could make it, again, be a decisive factor in the series.

29:21Jimmy Anderson:Imagine how you're feeling about the Ashes. Are you going to be up? Are you going to be watching? I'm going to be definitely up. I'll be watching it all. I was hoping to go. It didn't work out, but I will definitely be up. And I think we're going to be doing some visualised stuff, aren't we? Well, that's not announced. Sharky, you seems to have just announced that. Are you happy with that? Am I faded up? Yeah, you faded up. Slightly premature. Negotiations are still ongoing. I'd love to be in a tux on YouTube, analysing the first day at Perth. Why are you on a tux now? Oh yeah, it's my thing, isn't it?

29:51Jimmy Anderson:Is it? Oh, shoes is your thing. For the first four years of the pod, I came out of tux. No, no, no, no, no, tux is definitely, yeah, no, yeah, okay. Okay, a tux is your thing. We can't wait to see you on a tux on YouTube, Jimmy. Sharky just, like, I don't want to be cruel, but every time he speaks, he just sounds like small print.