Jeff Probst | Survivor's 20-Year Success Story

0:07Welcome to the Talks at Google podcast, where great minds meet. I'm Emma, bringing you this episode with Jeff Probst, executive producer and host of Survivor. Talks at Google brings the world's most influential thinkers, creators, makers, and doers all to one place. You can watch every episode at youtube.com slash talks at Google. Jeff joins Google to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the Emmy Award-winning CBS show Survivor. He discusses everything from how he got his start with this, quote, crazy social experiment, to what has made Survivor so successful. He even shares the moment that he knew that the show was something special.

0:52Originally published in February 2020, here is Jeff Probst, a peek behind the scenes of Survivor's 20-year success.

1:08There he is, Jeff. Yeah. First time at Google LAX, yeah? It is. This is cool. I've been to a few Google places, and they're always mind-blowing how different it is from anywhere else. We just got him a wellness shot. Cayenne pepper. I was dragging. I'm popping now. Well, you've been on a promotional tear, like the past week or so. Can you get everyone up to speed? Well, yeah. I mean, normally, if you have a TV show, you go and you do press and you promote. and we've been on so long that the publicist who's here somewhere, Lori, I hate doing it typically because I just, I don't know. I just reached a point where I was like, I don't really want, there's this pressure.

1:47You sit down to do like Kelly and Ryan and you already feel the clock because I, and I've done a daytime talk show. Wow. What a year that was, but you feel the, you know, you have three minutes and then so quickly your pace changes. Like, well, so then what happened was the dog ran up and he got hit by the car and well, some other stuff happening so i always feel that pressure but for 40 i felt you know i felt this pride and like we worked really hard on this season we just come off of your season and uh so it felt good it's been really fun to talk about it yeah well it's a bit serendipitous that we have you here in la because for everyone doesn't know i'm googler in new york city um and we were attempting to get him out there and he was just there for jimmy fallon right elvis duran show whatever um and And you had, as far as I know, all of Monday, February 3rd blocked off and afternoon time on February 4th.

2:39And our frigging team at Google couldn't find a room to take him. Really? So I pushed it. I was like, but we got to do it. Like, how can we do it? And they're like, well, we have a room. How does that happen? I don't know. I don't know. But hey, now we got everyone here. So that's cool. Great. Thanks for coming out. This is the last interview I'm doing before we premiere tonight. So it's really cool. And I get to lay back with you. And it's casual and chill. and there we go yeah okay chilling oh my god if not for that you might have won yeah seriously seriously um so everybody we're gonna go we're gonna take it way back to 2000 um we're gonna ask jeff a couple questions about how it all started how it all began um we're gonna fast forward to season 40 what we can expect for tonight's premiere okay in the middle we're gonna get to know jeff his hot takes his preferences on survivor and non-survivor and we got some special clips as well.

3:30Oh, nice. Now, as far as I know, and this is my experience, I don't know the same for you, but like a lot of my, I feel like Survivor fans come in two camps. We have the super, super fans who bring their mom and sit front row. We already met. And then we have folks like my friends who are like, wait, that show is still on. Yeah. So before we get started, I want to get everyone in the camp. That's a great, you're right. That's exactly it. Yeah. First, I guess, why is that? Well, I think because Survivor is so, like you said, I mean, I meet Katie's mom and who is Emily? Coworker. Coworker. Okay.

4:08So I meet them and they're fans. And if you're a fan of Survivor, you probably don't miss many episodes and you tend to watch them on Wednesday nights. Maybe not. You don't want people to talk during the episode because, you know, there's these little things that are happening. but then I find myself talking in a like a group of friends and there'll be one new person and and they're looking at us like we're like this is bizarre and then I always feel compelled to say if you don't watch survivor please don't feel weird because I'm on it it's not a big deal but just know that if you're in it you're kind of in it there's no cold lukewarm you're either and my hope is this season is that there's one new family that finds it because you know kids seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 year old kids, man, they just, they explode with this idea of, oh my God, that's possible.

4:57I could go in a jungle and we're in casting right now. And I'd say 70 % of the people under 35 walk in and they say, been watching since I was six. I've been watching since I was eight. My dad first turned me on when I was seven. And here they are auditioning because we've been on so long. Yeah. I've met a lot of folks like that. In fact, one friend of mine, not a six or seven year old, but she watched for the first time my season she felt obligated since the finale which was december 18th yeah she's watched five seasons and already applied really yeah morgan check her out i think she'd be good well get up make sure we you know i reached out to caitlin my casting okay i remember a lot about that first season because it was still to this day the coolest thing that that's ever happened to me and you look the same yeah yeah so at that time that was like crazy right first of its kind like yeah how did this all begin and how did you get involved in it well how it all began the original format of survivor was uh started in the uk and this guy charlie parsons and i'm pretty sure it was a four-day experiment for a local morning talk show where he just took i think it was two or three couples and put them on an island for a few days and that was sort of the seeds of this idea like maybe you could do this and then it was kind of based on this game, Screw Your Neighbor, which was you make alliances with people in the game, and then you pick various points in which you try to get rid of them, hoping they don't get rid of you before you get rid of them.

6:26That was the basic, very basic premise. And they did a season in Sweden, and it was a massive hit. It was very different from our show in that it was a tiny budget, had no fire, they couldn't shoot at night. Mark Burnett took Survivor and blew it up. And what was cool about that summer was that I had moved from New York to L.A. and I really wanted to do something that had storytelling in it. And all the stuff I was getting offered was dating shows where you read a prompter and say, this next couple hopes that they'll find a house. I was like, I can't do it. So I kept turning down these jobs and I had no money left.

7:05And then, and I literally heard Mark on the radio one day driving down the 405 and thought, oh my God, it's called Survivor. That's, that's what I'm meant for. And I wanted it. And then I went in and met with him. I was lucky enough to get a meeting and didn't go that well. He talked for a long time. And then I talked for like three minutes. And I thought I was so, I remember I had a picture and resume, you know, like I was auditioning. I didn't know what I was going to do. He didn't care. So I went, I'm not a studio guy. I'm a student of the human condition. I'm a writer. I've been in therapy.

7:39I get this show. And he literally goes, very nice to meet you. Okay, the door was right over there. Okay, great. He did, and I left. And I'm not exaggerating when I say I went home and went, who else could do this but me? And I knew every other person that sort of did what I did. There wasn't really hosts. It was more just like personality storytellers. I didn't hear from him for months and I thought man I guess my rate I was just way off because I thought for sure I was meant for and then I ultimately ended up getting a call and got it yeah sounds similar to mine yeah so I submitted my tape this was September 2018 um heard back from Caitlin the casting lady that in the same night I didn't even expect to hear back I heard back and then she had so much urgency we need to get on the phone when you're free tomorrow and that she ended up ghosting me for three weeks I was cold calling her leaving her voicemails this and that and she finally just called me back on a random Wednesday night was like hey Dean we really like you like can we get you can we interview and stuff so I know the feeling well and I will say and maybe this is what happened with me as well in our world three weeks is you know it's a blank yeah like we they see you or they say hey we met this guy in New York he might be good I wouldn't then hear about you again for a month and then but I do remember I do recognize those pants i wore these on purpose tell them about it he came in with more swagger than most anyone has come in so much swagger that for real there was a few people in the room going they said a few things they're like nah he's he's just got too much he thinks he's all this and he thinks he's mr google and he's like i'm a very persuasive person at my job you should see the way.

9:22And I go, where the fuck wears these? He asked, he asked, where do I get a pair of those? And do you think I could pull on them all? And I think I said no. And that's what got us on the wrong footing. No, it was never on the wrong footing. No, but you're right. I did go home and I, and I asked our kids who are teenagers. I showed them these on, I think on Amazon, I found them. I said, Hey, there was this guy in today. It was kind of cool. It's like a sweat pan, but it kind of looks like a dress pant. And they both looked, they both looked at me like, are you high? You are way too old to wear something that we should be wearing, dad.

9:55But no, you are always in the mix. We just, part of the process is really to see beyond the psych tests we do or the medical tests or any of that stuff. It's also just to see, what do you like? What do you like if somebody pokes you in the chest, which is super annoying? Some people get really annoyed. Some people don't seem to mind. You never deviated. This is what all my notes about you said, he's never not this guy. I don't know. I'm DK chilling, man. I'm fine. Take me or leave me. I don't care. That's exactly how it is though. So at the casting finale, right? You do a bunch of pre-screening calls and the Skype interviews.

10:30Then you get called the finals, which is a week in LA. They put you in a hotel and basically you're in the room working, doing your Google work, whatever. And then you get a call on the hotel phone, say, Hey, come to suite XYZ. They mic you up before you, before you enter, go in the suite. And there's a chair like this with the green screen lights and cameras already facing it and then he's there with all the other producers and all these cbs probably like 15 people in a hotel suite and like the nerves just start it's pretty intimidating so i just my comfort position is just like what's up guys how are you and then like the energy takes over but yeah the cross leg is is a signature everyone saw it at tribal council too yes yeah um back to season one yeah um you get the gig yeah what do you think would happen you thought you'd be here at 40 or what were you no i um i remember going on i was the last person hired and we got there and mark said well what are you going to wear and he had these shirts that cbs had designed and they literally had the cbs insignia with this eyeball and cbs right here and here it said cbs and here it said cbs and and i i just went oh man i just don't that's not what I'm seeing this feels like I'm a sports announcer what do you want to wear just normal like normal clothes like a normal person so we were in Malaysia and we go to this clothing store and the only thing they have are these giant shirts and shorts and if you like if you really go watch season one my clothes look like four people my dad could have worn them and but the the night I really remember zone or like cluing in on it was I'd been there one day and we'd kind kind of been walking around and he was sort of explaining more of the show to me.

12:09And then he said, they're going to run a tribal council tonight. We're going to go check it out. They're building the set. And we showed up and there was a guy there, Barry, who was running tribal, like practicing a Q and A and testing lighting and where the flame is going to be. And Mark said, let's go watch him and see what he's doing. And I had some instinct. I said, I don't want to see anybody do it. This is like birthing something new. You hired me, brother, just let me birth it with you because then I'll always be mocking him for the rest of my career. And I knew he was uncertain because he had that look like, oh my God, you're that guy.

12:45You're the guy that can't, you know, but he let me go the same way that he wanted to put an earpiece in my ear so that he could talk to me during tribal and say, ask Dean this question. Like they do not have that. No. Wow. I assumed you had it the whole time. Really? Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, the questions he asked are so pointed, right? And like, I feel like you could see us like tap Tommy on the knee and like you're asking all these, it's impressive. It's very impressive. Well, thanks. But you know, I think it's because of the imbalance of power. I don't have anything at stake, you know? So I'm always aware that when I like, I'm not looking to cause any trouble at tribal.

13:19I'm just looking to ask questions. No, really. Yes. But meaning like, I'm just saying, I don't come in with an agenda to cause problems. I come in with an agenda to get the story. And I do notice people, it's amazing how many people still roll their eyes. They can't stop it because you hear something that's annoying, you know, like, yeah. And I like, what's wrong? That's just, it's just the dumbest thing that you just said. And then I'm like, ah, now, now we're going. I need a little dash of Nora in there. Yes. Yeah. Nora always helps. Um, so an iconic first season, obviously I just heard the other night, the finale had 52 million.

13:5772. 72 million viewers. For reference, the Oscars on Sunday had 24 million. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. That was a crazy phenomenon. Yeah. I went to New York after the finale for something, maybe to do an interview or something. And, and, uh, people, several people told me the same story. They said, you should have been here that night of the finale. everybody in Manhattan had their windows open and you could hear from the street people groaning when Richard was declared the winner it was that big of a like shared moment awesome yeah did you know like did you need the viewers the ratings as validation or was there perhaps a moment on the island when you're filming where you're like this is going to be something well okay there is a story that I can't I don't know if we've ever really told this story or not but I'll make it short.

14:48We were trying to figure out the show and part of the show was going to be reward challenges and the reward challenges were to incentivize you to play harder because you could finally get something to eat or a cushion or whatever. But we hadn't figured out that they needed to escalate. You know, like the hierarchy of needs, you can't give somebody a steak and then the next time give them a piece of bread. They're like, but I already had a steak. But we didn't, we hadn't, it seemed so simple, but we hadn't figured that out. And we had done some rewards and there was a sponsor. There were several sponsors that season, which is how Mark sold the show.

15:22Every network had said, no, nobody's interested in this, this idea of abandoning people. And Mark, nobody, every network passed. It's a famous story in Hollywood because of the success of the show. But Mark then went out to sponsors like Target and Budweiser and Scholl's inserts. And every week he would hand me a new product. He's like, all right, it's a shoe insert, Jeff. And, you know, think about it. It'd be really nice to have a cushion in your shoe right now.

15:53But, but I think it was Budweiser with the beer company was there and, and they were, so the, the prize was going to be one cold beer. That was the prize. And we thought that sounds pretty cool. Cause we were always trying to like, it's not a chocolate bar. It's one piece of chocolate. It's not a six pack it's one beer and you have to and so word gets the tree mail gets to the tribes they read it and richard hatch says basically a beer let's just don't do it let's just tell them let's show up and say we're not going to do it we want something else he was holding us hostage it was a beautiful leverage move by him but um martin so word got back to us just so you know we're heading we're getting in the boat and when we get there they're not going to participate They're going to say they want something else.

16:41So Mark huddles all of us. And as he's talking to us, all of the sponsor, the Budweiser people, I remember this woman dressed in pure white. And the jungles are muddy. She's got mud all over here. And I know she's like, this is not what you thought this was going to be. But they're coming in. And Mark says, you know, if they weren't here right now, I would go back to the players and say, I challenge you. Because we'll just end the show right now. He was that kind of guy. But he said I I made a promise I made a contract I have a commitment we have to put the beer So we huddled around we have a mutiny about to happen We have the sponsors coming to see their beer the contestants don't want their beer and then john kerhoffer one of the only other original guys Mark said we need an idea and john said, you know, there's this thing on I think tbs or tnt called dinner and a movie What if we make it dinner like cold beer and and mark goes I got it.

17:36Okay, this is what it is Jeff when they get here you tell them a cold beer you wait for Richard to bite and then you say I wasn't finished it's a cold beer and as much spaghetti as you can eat while you watch the first 15 minutes of the show you are starring in and it worked Richard everybody was like oh my god Richard you're such an idiot this is a great reward but we didn't have 15 minutes cut yet and we didn't have anywhere to do it so while all of this is happening simultaneously with a crew of 85. We go back to our base camp and our production designer, Kelly, changed our base camp and she just quickly established what looked like a local Malaysian bar.

18:17And we brought in a couple of foosball tables. We brought in a bunch of locals. We told them to start smoking and for real. And I haven't watched it in years. I should probably go look at it. But I remember looking out at it going, if you didn't know better, you wouldn't, you would not think anything of this. And we had blinds so the cameras could shoot through it. Then I'm on a boat with the woman who won Kelly and we're, she's blindfolded and we're driving her around. This is no exaggeration. We're just driving around in the same circle, waiting for it to get finished. And then it was the only season that we had had editors on location.

18:56And so Mark, they had been cutting stuff because you know you're building the show so mark wanted to look at footage and say so if it's an interview and then we cut to this and then we go to a challenge what else will we need here oh we'll need an interview here so we were kind of putting the show together and he said look i need 15 minutes you need some graphics put their name on there and so kelly and i sat down with a bowl of spaghetti cold beer sponsors are happy and they project the first 15 minutes and all of the crew that's pretending to be people on vacation or whatever we are all looking at it going oh my god it's really cool because if you go back and think 20 years ago there was nothing like that what was standing on a boat saying they're gonna jump off and be in the water and so it that was the moment where i went i don't know if anyone will watch it or anyone will like it but i know this is really cool cool really cool long story first time telling it i don't know if I told it.

19:55I just don't think I've ever seen anybody talk about it. And I think it's such a significant moment. So 20 years, I Googled average lifespan of a TV show. It said seven years, which I think is generous. Right. What makes Survivor so special? Probably the format. I mean, it really is a really simple idea. You take a group of strangers and you do two things. You force them to rely on each other to survive. And you force them to vote each other out to move forward. And then everything else that happens in that box, like you guys, I'm sure in your different departments, you have this on one level, it's a constraint.

20:30This is what Google does. But we can do anything within that box that we want. And that's how I look at it. We have a very simple thing. And then I think the other half, and this is me patting ourselves on the back a little bit, is we work really hard to try to reinvent the show every single time. And it takes months and months to try to figure out that one little new nugget of something. And that's why when people cherry pick and they're like, yeah, didn't really like Edge of Extinction. I feel like, you know, like, well, dude, I get it. Do you have an idea? Because I would love it. I heard I don't know if anyone watched the Jimmy Fallon show with Jeff, but I heard a funny story there, how he emailed you an idea.

21:12Yeah. I don't know if you want to retell that one or in general, like where do the ideas come from? Just laying in bed in the shower? Well, if they're not coming from Fallon, I mean, Jimmy writes the like 3 a.m. emails and it will be, it'll say in the subject line, here's one. And then about 20 minutes later, don't read the first one, read this one. It does that. So for everyone who doesn't know, he actually suggested the one on my season in which Rob and Sandra were in the boxes at Tribal Council. and it's funny we actually as a cast had no idea there I love that so we watched it uh in September if you don't know the basic thing is that tribal council is where the climax of the show happens and people are voted out and the players can see everything they're looking at me and Fallon a year before your season had written me and said wouldn't it be great if somebody could eavesdrop so I went to location and tribal is already being built and there was just no way to pull it off so for the next year was talking to our art guys and I said, let's build it.

22:12We'll have Rob and Sandra. So they started the entire tribal council from this one tiny little area so that we could put every eyeline based on that. So that was a found idea. It was also found as I did to do a live vote, like second chances where we let the audience do a live vote. But ideas for me just come from my own personal. It's why it's so singular in that I liked Edge of Extinction, not simply because it lets you keep popular people in the game longer, which is just a producing idea. But I like the idea of how far will you go to push yourself to see what you're capable of as a human. I don't know how they did it.

22:50I don't either. I was there. And every time you would see clouds in the sky, I'd be like, to be honest, I said to myself many times, I want to be at work right now. With our MKs and our free food, I literally wanted to be at work. I didn't want to be home with my family. I wanted to be at work with free food. Well, and there was a woman, Reem, who was on her tribe and she was a mom and she was being too much of a mom. And so here's this nice woman who's just trying to do her best. And nine people are saying, you're driving me nuts, hanging up my clothes, telling me to eat more. Just stop talking.

23:25And they vote her out. Nine won. Horrible. She goes to Edge of Extinction. She gets on a boat. She gets in the ocean. It's pitch black. It's a real ocean. There's no help. There's no light. There's no support. She's alone. Nobody's talking to her. She has a torch. She doesn't know that we've engineered the torch to go out between 20 to 30 minutes because you're not going to have fire. You're going to have enough fire to get you there. And the only reason you have fire to get you there is so that we can have a shot. So the fire lights her face and allows us to shoot her as she gets on the beach.

23:55And then she gets there, fire goes out, rain comes down. And her last words are, I don't know if I can do this. 33 days later, she had done it. To me, that was exactly what I pitched to CBS was, what if we had a spiritual death and rebirth? How cool would that be? But then I talked to a lot of survivor friends, they're like, yeah, I don't know, man. I just say when you're out, you're out. Enough with your spiritual stuff. And so everyone knows, like, it's real. Like, I thought going out there, I was, there would be like a granola bar, like that, the camera. Really? Yeah, I did think that. Yeah.

24:28Some people ask me, wait, there wasn't showers or toothpaste? like it's really real like which says a lot about how you kept your hair because your hair was always looking pretty good i think it was the the salt water like the salty air you know i think that has something to do with it um do you guys feel bad for us no no we signed up we signed up but you know it really the reason is is because nobody signs up that doesn't want this there was a part of you that wanted it i know you're a competitor in athletics anyway but this is more than just sports. It's more than running a challenge. You really are sleeping with rats and spiders and snakes in the rain with people you don't like who want to get rid of you.

25:04You have no one you can trust. There's not a single bit of comfort. You've been deprived of everything. Your basic needs. I need some water. I need a little rice and I need to like get my mental because I'm losing my mind. When I see you guys down, even though I might ache as a human, And I'm excited as a human because you can do it. Yeah. No, I still say to this day, most challenging thing I've ever done in my life mentally, physically. Yeah. I don't think you can understand that until you've played. Yeah. You can watch at home. Even me, I'm out there and I'm exhausted when we're done producing two seasons.

25:43I'm out of gas. And then I see you guys and I'm like, oh my God, I've been eating and sleeping. I don't know how you do it. Yeah. We're going to pivot a little and get to know you. Some hot takes, as we like to call them. Some preferences of yours. Okay. Not meant to be super quick answers, but if we have a story, we can go there. Otherwise. Great one so far. But yeah, we're going to do a little Survivor, a little personal. Okay. Cool. First one, who, given the huge Rob and Sandra statues, which are reminiscent of the Mount Rushmore. Right. Who is your Mount Rushmore of Survivor? That's four people.

26:20Oh, okay. Man, that's good. I hate being put on the spot like this. I guess, well, so you're saying we have Robin Sander. There are two of them? We'll take them. Okay. Oh, man. Really? I guess I give one to, I need two heroes. I'll pick Ben. And really, I got to go Parvati. We'll take him. Parvati. That's not really two heroes. It's basically three villains and a hero. Okay. Your go-to karaoke song? It's a good question. been changing it lately. I love Van Halen because it's in my range. But I've been getting into a little more Eminem. So I think it might be. Wait, I'm not. Just so we're clear.

27:04I'm not about to be. OK, I thought you were going to suck me into karaoke. I'd say Lose Yourself. There we go. We just listened to it. Yeah. They just get fired up. We're chest bumping and everything. Just kidding. How can you not like that song? It's amazing. Come on. Lose Yourself in the music. The moment. never let it go you only get one shot do not miss your chance to blow this opportunity comes in a lifetime not to not to put you down but i asked him uh what song should we play to get pumped up right now he goes the one by eminem one shot i was like you know it's lose yourself right yeah and and do you know what was going through my head actually was hamilton okay okay yes yes which i almost picked but then i knew you'd really dog me if i said i'm gonna go with i saw it i saw i loved it loved it um you have two children six and 13 would you allow them to play survivor or do they want to play survivor 16 and 13 is that what you said okay um yeah yeah oh yeah i think survivor is amazing not a single person has played that hasn't left and said never the same i'll never be the same uh your favorite season ever okay truth this one 40 yeah and i've never i've been a promo thing no huh this is this is the best season we've ever done and and the creative behind it was 20 winners will introduce this new layer of money because at some point every society gets money you stop bartering and trading chickens for rice and you just agree that this coin is going to be this value and that's what we're going to use to buy and sell things and so we introduce that which starts tonight you see the early seeds they don't know what it means but and the last part of the creative was let's give them enough weapons that they break the game.

28:46That when this season's over, we just can't do it the same way again. Because I was getting, I was running out of ideas and it felt like we're like so fast. Let's just have them go until they literally kill each other. And that's what happens. It's relentless. Starts tonight. There's a scene early on where Ben is sitting in the jungle going, I can't believe I'm out here. I can't believe I'm with Rob. Rob at some point is going to try to get me to give him information. And I'm terrified that he'll do it. Even though I know he's going to do it, that paranoia goes for 39 days. And when it's over and we get to final tribal and we have our final players, you can see in their face.

29:29It's like, you know, they just got out of like 30 years in prison. They just have nothing left. And then in 41, we're going to birth something new you know bring money into a bigger way and just try to maybe reset and start over cool one we love at Google for like team icebreakers and stuff your first screen name on AOL or aim or something like that oh damn this sucks all right it was don't we do it all the time it was first draft two zero zero two at AOL.com and it's I've heard more embarrassing ones okay but the fact that it's AOL is what my kids are like. You had an AOL? Are you AOL messaging right now, Dad?

30:14Really? This was one I got asked on pregame when we were out there. We got asked your favorite Jeff-ism. So for everyone who doesn't know, these are the sayings that he repeats all the time, such as the tribe has spoken, Survivor's ready, things like that. Right. What is your favorite? Got nothing for you. Yeah. You know, the great thing about getting this gig is that there was nobody before me so none of this none of it is pre-planned the got nothing for you was just one day it was just a comment a kind of a lippy comment but it really was just i got nothing for you grab your stuff go back and then i guess the next time we thought i should say that again and then it became a thing but and now it is fun because now you say things that that players know you're gonna say even though they're ridiculously corny i still say them nice i heard a fun story about tribe has spoken and that that's birth yeah the the so when we were we still have a photo somewhere of a whiteboard and we were we had walked through tribal council a couple of times and we knew the beats that basically we were going to give them these torches and then we would snuff the torch and then they would leave and that was it but i kept feeling like the show who wants to be a millionaire was on and regis would always say final answer and everybody's walking around going final answer and so I was saying to the group of people I was working with we need a final answer like what's our final answer line because it's going to feel flat if they just walk off and we were writing just ridiculous things none of them made sense they weren't memorable they were always like well you should I don't know whatever so we're getting ready for the first tribal and Mark says okay you know these are the beats I yeah I just wish I had a line to say I can't think of anything good he goes what do you mean I tell him he goes oh here's what you He say, well, obviously, your tribe don't want you around no more.