Naomi Campbell | Speaking Truth to Power

0:07Welcome to the Talks at Google podcast, where great minds meet. I'm Emma, bringing you this episode with model Naomi Campbell. Talks at Google brings the world's most influential thinkers, creators, makers, and doers all to one place. You can watch every episode at youtube.com slash Talks at Google. Naomi Campbell is known as one of the five original supermodels. After being discovered at age 15, she went on to grace the covers of more than 500 magazines. She's been featured in campaigns for fashion houses like Burberry, Prada, and Dolce & Gabbana, and has walked iconic shows for Chanel, Christian Dior, Versace, and many, many more.

0:54Naomi has also leveraged her platform for an array of fundraising and nonprofit initiatives across the globe. She focuses on environmentalism, human rights, and global health, specifically for women and children. She founded her own nonprofit, Fashion for Relief, in 2005. Today, Naomi is known as a cultural innovator, using her platform and her success for positive change across industries around the world. Originally published in November 2020, here is Naomi Campbell, speaking truth to power.

1:39Hi, Yonka. Naomi, hi. Hello, everyone. Hello, hello. Thank you so much. I hope you're all well and safe. I hope you're well and safe, Yonka. How are you? Thank you. I'm very well, thanks. I'm in London. All is good. We have you. I was really looking forward to this, Naomi. You're very welcome. Thank you for having me. So, Naomi, it's been a very interesting year, as they say, 2020. I want to get straight to the point. What's been your highlight, low light, your best day, your worst day? I really can't. I adapt. And I'm that kind of personality where I just, that's how I've always been. So I adapt very quickly.

2:22And there hasn't been any low days for me. I mean, there's been days of sadness and grieving of people that I've lost and miss. but low days that would you consider that a low day um but in terms of just i i go one day at a time and i try to make the best out of my day i go to bed exhausted every day i go to bed very late um because i work europe england and then i get on and start doing united states so east coast and west coast so by the time I hit the day it's um like 3 4 a.m and so my day starts a little bit later the next day so I do my start my day around noon because of the time I'm pretty much staying on American time but um there's not been any low days this has been a lot of time of reflection um there's been some wonderful things that have happened during this pandemic time for me and for many people I know.

3:28It's just the way you have to think about things. You know, I understand that anxiety is a big play in a lot of people's minds and has affected a lot of people, mental illness. But I really try to do things that are positive for me to keep going. I can't afford to go down. So I just keep myself extremely active and that keeps me full. I mean, I don't know if it was very long, but that positivity and that taking one day at a time is, I think, exactly what we need in this time, right? And you said there were some wonderful things that happened. We all need some positivity. What were the wonderful things that happened?

4:15I mean, there's just been things like, you know, I did an American Vogue cover and wasn't planned to do it. It's my 50th year. I'm 50 years old this year. The docuseries with Linda, Christy and Cindy. You know, so there's been some great things where, well, have you just been on our normal world to get the time to come together and make these things actually happen would have taken a lot longer. So it's just, you know, and there's been wonderful things that have happened to many people that I know. And I just love the creativity that I've seen that's come out of this pandemic, the things that people are doing to get around, you know, not being able to be in front of each other and to physically be there.

5:02It's been incredible. That's just been mind boggling and amazing to see. I did something with the African Leadership University, which is run by a friend of mine called Fred Swanica. And I wanted to talk to some of the students. And so we spoke to like four or five students in different parts of the continent of Africa. And just hearing things. What I love the most is the compassion towards everyone else that people are having towards each other, sharing Wi-Fi so that one of the students were able to speak and be on the show with me and be part of it. And the sharing aspect, you know, that's the part that I'm the tip that I'm loving that that, you know, we can, you know, one person doesn't have something.

5:52I didn't have some cleaning stuff that I was freaking out about. Linda's like, OK, Naomi, I'm sending it down to you. You've got some pasta that I like. OK, Linda, I'm sending this to you. It's this is what I like. This is this is for me. The kind of things that wouldn't maybe happen otherwise. Right. No, when it comes to people like Linda's, my family, I would share any pasta. I'd give her my last piece of bread. But I just feel like people are more aware. And definitely we can't deny this, that people have now decided and realized and understand that they have a voice and their voice is important and they want to be heard.

6:33and I believe that is now going to sweep the globe and the young generation do matter because the young generation are and will be our future leaders. Absolutely, absolutely and just to pick up on something you said I did want to ask you about that you know you're a you really are a trailblazer you have so many firsts first black supermodel on the cover of Time on the cover of Vogue in 1988. And then you've got the Diversity Coalition that you founded. You do so much for diversity in the fashion industry. But you also mentioned the American Vogue cover. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

7:14Why is it so important to you? Well, for me, it was unexpected. And I first shot American Vogue in 1986 with Stephen Micell. So I did a little BTS behind the scenes on my Being Naomi vlog about it. And so, you know, I've known Anna Wintour for many decades. And, you know, I think we always used to look at, like, American Vogue. If we could get that cover, you know, then our careers are made. It was a big, it was like a goal that we all wanted to get to when we started this business. When I found out how I should say this business kind of went. and so um i mean the last time i was on the cover alone was 26 years ago um the last time i was on the cover was with a group of my peers so um it's just you know and to be 50 and it just it just worked out and um i i very much um loved uh fu a harsh who i did the interview with because I got to invite her to my home in London and it was the day after we had buried my grandmother and she got to be with me and my mother and my aunts and my school friends and my cousins and I've never done an interview like that but I felt that I wanted to open to let people see my family and to hear and for them to speak about me that they've never done before.

8:45my mother has but not the rest of my family so in that respect the whole thing was special to me for that reason. You know I'm really sorry about your grandmother is there something so that we can honor her memory here? My grandmother has been I believe my grandmother has been my backbone throughout this whole pandemic since COVID started because in a sense of being maintained at home and locking down. A lot of things that she used to tell me when I was a child to do with hygiene, to do with cooking, to do with housework, to do with chores, those things have come into play. Anyone that knows a Jamaican household having a Jamaican grandmother who's extremely strong, she was the matriarch of our family, you know that with that there is discipline.

9:39And even though as a child I used to complain about that discipline it has definitely come into effect in these times been very helpful so my grandmother's with me I miss her physically but I feel her spiritually I'm so glad we honored your memory here but I can see that in you not just in this pandemic but whenever we collaborate on your more on the philanthropic side of your work in Africa you're very switched on you're always very disciplined and now I know where that comes from so respect your grandmother um the other thing I wanted to ask you is um about the intersectionality of being a woman and being black I mean this is I am remarkable week you are remarkable you're also very true true to your word true to your power can you tell me a little bit more about about that It's just the way I was raised.

10:37The women in my family, including mum, are very strong, very straightforward and transparent. And that's the way I was raised. And that's the way, you know, that I am. I'm not someone who comes with preconceived ideas. When people say to me, did you plan your life, your career? I'm going to honestly sit here and tell you I didn't plan my career. I didn't think I'd be even sitting here at 50 years old. I didn't even think I'd be still modeling at 50 years old. So because we were told back in the day that you only work for 11 years. So, I mean, for me, it's really about being true to yourself. I try to be true to myself.

11:19Of course, I've made hiccups along the way, but I will own my hiccups. I will own my mistakes and keep going. And in the intersectionality of being black and a woman, I mean, I feel like we've come a long way recently, but then we have always, I've always, how do I start with this? Okay, so I'm going to split it up. In terms of being a model and in terms of being a black woman, there are many times, let's go with the black woman first. I'd walk into places, I'm the only one. I did not like it. People may feel like, oh, she, no, not at all. I felt very inside. I felt very uncomfortable about it.

12:01But I was like, I'm going to be here because there's no representation. So I'm not going to leave. And that's what kept me there. But it was not something that I adhered to light at all. It was something that I was really like, this has to change. As a model, I would speak up. Since I was, when I understood a little bit more of the business, when I was like 17, 18, and Beth Ann Hardison was a great soundboard to me, as well as like a second mother, where I would call and speak to her and say, this is not right. They want me to do the same amount of work, the same hours, the this, this, this, but I'm to get less.

12:37No, I'm not going to accept that. So I have always spoken up since an early age. and many people would be like oh that's difficult she's this she's that whatever label they want to give it I didn't really care I knew that I was being true to my integrity that I wasn't going to feel like less than and so whatever names had to go with that I took it and yes I'm a human being they hurt me I wouldn't you know like I'd hurt anyone but it's not who I I knew that's not who I was to speak in my truth, then I have to take the hurt and keep going. So that's what I did. But it's not now I feel like we're all on the same page where everyone feels comfortable, they can speak out.

13:21But it's not new for me. I'm just still doing me. Basically. Go Naomi. That's why you're remarkable. So the other question I wanted to ask you is, you're an activist, you're a supermodel, you're a philanthropist. What made you start a YouTube channel? Okay, so we love Derek Blasberg. We love him. He's a friend of ours, everyone. And, you know, first of all, I have to be honest, technology scared me. I remember when I heard about Twitter and Instagram and all of this and YouTube. And I'd be like, well, I'm never doing that because I'd have to go to school to learn it because it's a whole thing.

14:02now I'm just doing it never thought I would but that's just the way of life you got to get with it and YouTube when Derek approached me I was like nah but then the thing is I've had many people approach me over these years over the decades actually asking can we film you can we do this can we do that but you're gonna just be part of it you're gonna give us yourself you're just gonna be part of it and we'll pay you a little fee and then goodbye and I'm thinking to myself no no no it doesn't work that way that's my words and my life and my image and my copyright that I'm giving you and you're not just gonna have me as a commodity of something that I'm gonna be making it's gonna be made off me so I was like not interested so I never took any of these things and I tried once to do reality with uh doing the space which I loved and mentoring mentoring something else that I loved.

14:58Anyway, so when Derek approached me with YouTube, I liked the idea more than anything that I would own my content. And that was what the appealing thing was to me, because I think ownership of your content is extremely important and it is proven to be extremely important during these times. And so I trusted Derek. I trusted the process. I trusted my team my agent in New York David got involved and and we started to build a team and it started to happen and I felt comfortable speaking to the camera and showing things that I would never shown before because I own the content and when people search for you on YouTube or Google that's what they get they get the real Naomi I love it they get no filter Tuesdays no filter today so you have no filter tuesdays and you have being naomi and no being naomi started first yeah which is my vlog i didn't even know this word vlog it's all still and then and then um being um no filter with naomi started in march sitting sitting at home after i'd work out i'd be like what can i do now i want to know what my friends are doing how can we make this into something.

16:19It was really just like that. I called Derek, I'm like, Derek, what do you think? Let's do this. Next thing, No Filter was named, title came up and we were starting. And I love it because it gets to show people in their comfort zone and speaking freely. It's really to be, it's really a conversation between my guest and I, and you could be just a fly on the wall peeking in. I love the intimacy of it. And I don't want to ever lose that part of it because I love where it started from and how it was born. And being Naomi shows you me and the things I do, the things I want to share. I mean, I've taken being Naomi all over the African continent.

17:03It's been being Naomi's gone everywhere in terms of, you know, it's a little different though to now as well as I know when I go to work the team are there production photographer hair and makeup now I mean I don't travel with hair and makeup in that sense for my vlog but now I have to have with me the camera person and it's a little different but I'm it's now part of my life and I'm enjoying it I must say we're all enjoying it so thank you and also So I want to just do a shout out to Derek because he really is amazing. I'm so glad he convinced you. I deeply admire him and adore him. And then you paved the way for the others.

17:45And now YouTube fashion is a really huge platform for everyone. But you were the pioneer of it. Well, I just love that, you know, I love what I do love about Google is that when we met again in July last year in Sicily, that you picked up yourself. Google has gone to Africa. You did Google Nigeria. I love that because I feel like a lot of people are saying, we're going to do this, we're going to do that, and don't do it. And you actually went and you are doing it, and you've got an office in Lagos. And for me, it's about people coming into the infrastructure of the continent and really showing their commitment.

18:24That's the only way it's going to work. Yeah. Thank you so much. No, thank you. They're a great team and they're doing great work that scales to the rest of Google globally. So thanks for your shout out to them. I know they'll appreciate it. So I think that was my last question. I know there are some questions that our viewers are asking. Wally, I would like to read these for the sake of our viewers. Amazing to hear how you see past labels and take leaps, Naomi. Question, how do you define being remarkable? My goodness, how do I see past labels and taking leaps? This is a very interesting question.

19:01I don't see labels. I'm someone that's not defined by what has to be. I go on my instinct on most things. I go with how I feel and what I feel is right for me at that time. I've never been someone that I don't feel I try to follow trends. And that can go in all formats. It can go in clothing. It can go in, I just got to do what the timing is right for me. How do you define being remarkable? I think most more than anything is about being yourself, being true to yourself, being true to your integrity and staying dignified as much as you can. What is the most important tip you will provide to parents when raising kids to be confident and strong, maybe wanted from your grandmother when taking care of you?

19:53I feel like strength is so my mother did always talk to me and prepare me in the sense of and that she did since I was at school, because I went to a theater art school. So she always prepared me for rejection. And to take to learn that rejection is not to be taken in a bad way that you to keep going. so when I got to modeling I kind of understood there would be rejection and it didn't go as deep as it could have had mom not warned me and I really feel that that was a valuable um lesson and talk that my mom had with me when I was younger I'm just reflecting on that how could I do that for my daughter's thing another thing is my my in my family it was you try this came from mom this came from grandma this was like you have to try 110 percent you know that you're a black woman you know that you're gonna have the odds why the odds i don't know but because i'm someone who i've always been against the odds i believe my whole career is being based on a challenge every chat i rise to the challenges i'm not afraid of the challenges and if they work out i'm happy um but it was always that you had to give that extra which I've always known to.

21:12Defy the challenges. Naomi, you're such an inspiration. You're known to be a very hardworking person. Yes. Is it what it takes to stay on top as you've done for decades? Did you have to sacrifice things for your success? I mean, of course you sacrifice things, but it's like, you know, I won't call it a sacrifice. I mean, like, you know, you want things to happen like personally in a personal life when you want it to happen. But then I'm someone, as I said, I'm going to go with my instinct and I'm going to go with what the universe said is meant to happen when it's meant to happen. So a lot of people are like, you're not a mom yet.

21:46You're not this yet. It's not my time. I'm where I'm supposed to be. And I'm comfortable with where I am now and where I'm still going to go. And I will go simple, cliche, you may say, but I will go with the flow on the timing of my time here. That's how I am. I mean, it's not that I can't get into preconceived. It just makes it just unnecessary. What is your view on fashion and sustainability and how can they work together in the future? Tracy, I do feel that there's a lot of an Anna Wintour said this and I do. I second this. I feel there's a lot of waste in our business. And I feel like through this whole time of the pandemic that I feel fashion is going to be so much more focused and putting more into sustainability.

22:41And I feel like you're going to see so much more coming out of the fashion industry, finding a new way to do things and focusing specifically on this period, because we have to. We just have to. This is the way of the new world and we want to be part of the new world. So fashion has to be inclusive of what the new world is going to do and their actions that they're going to take. And every day there's more and more actions. So good question. Thank you. Lisa, thank you so much for being here, Naomi. Looking back, what's the number one advice you'd give your past self when first starting your career?

23:16Don't give up. Don't give up. It's, you know, that's weird. It's that simple. I mean, I know that there can be those times we just feel, oh, my goodness, this isn't happening for me. It's going to happen. It's going to happen when it's supposed to happen. And don't ever think about this fame thing because this fame thing, I think, is a double-edged sword. I'm not into it. You have to love what you do and do it with the best of your ability. Whatever else comes with that, comes with it. That will come with it if it's meant to come with it. But do it because you love it and you're passionate about it.

24:01Julia, what are you most proud of when it comes to your heritage? I am a proud Black woman, Jamaican, Chinese ancestry, obviously African descent. And I love the African continent. I love Jamaica. I embrace my Chinese ancestry, Jamaican Chinese ancestry. I'm just, I'm happy. I've always loved being me in the sense of my skin color. Yes, I wear wigs and I have straight hair, curly hair, whatever. It's an accessory. It doesn't change and define me of who I am inside and what my core values are. I love that. Martha. Martha's in my team. Plus one to Khalid's question. and what advice can you give others when they face subtle racism that makes them feel marginalized?

24:50I mean, that's, you know, I've said this and I'll say it again. I'd rather deal and know the person I'm dealing with or the situation of racism, which I don't. I never used to say this word for so many years. I have to say, because it's too easy to say, I didn't get this because they're racist. Nah, that wasn't coming out of my mouth. It would be more of they're territorial. They've got their opinion. They don't want to change their opinion. OK, I'm going to find another way to get what I want. I don't like subtle racism. I'd rather have it full throttle in my face and know what I'm dealing with and know how to combat it.

25:30than to have this subtle underlying under the carpet racism, which I don't like, which I'm sorry. I feel that more a lot in UK where it's not in your face, but you know, it's there. I'd rather it be here and me deal with it. How best I can deal with it in the situation. How do you deal with it when it's like a, I find that really hard. I find that, you know, when I talk to my team members as well, How do you deal with it when it's subtle, but you know it's real? It's a difficult question, actually, because it's a hard one. It's a hard one because when you feel it and you know it's there and you can't explain it because you just feel it in your stomach and you know it.

26:15And others may disagree with you, but you know what you feel. And someone always said to me, don't ever let anyone change the way you feel. And I say it a lot because it is so important. but um how do you deal with that especially with a team i think you have to address it you have to call it out and you have to address it when you feel it because i feel like if you let it linger it can manifest into something much bigger and cause you more problems down the road you have to address it right there and then yeah i agree you have to find a way to to bring it up where it's not accusatory where you, you know, but you can still say how you feel.

26:56I'm feeling this energy right now. Am I right? Yeah. I hope that I'm wrong, but this is what I feel. And, you know, I think then you'll get a conversation and you'll start to hear what other people in that room probably agree with you and feel the same thing. Yeah. But just don't want to say it. Yeah. I think that's a great way to put it. Yesterday I had a session with the Black and Latin ex-members of my team and I heard such stories and you know some of them had the courage to say something some reported it some just moved on and and and of course I think it's great to talk I think it's great advice to say talk about how it makes you feel because that's not accusing the other person outright but it allows to address it I thank you for that that great advice and of course if it's really bad you should always report it I think that's great advice thank you more questions I think one more and then we're set.

27:54Sheree, listening today, I'm struck by the feeling that you are only just getting started. What is next for Naomi? Oh, my goodness. No pressure. I started Omi Media, which is my docuseries will be part of that. And anything I want to do that's outside of me, not necessarily with me involved. My thing is sharing and mentoring and Africa and basically lending my voice and my platform to anyone that I believe in. I may not be British, but I live in the United States. And so for me, it's all eyes on Georgia. We have to help Georgia. I don't want to see my race, no matter what country, have to be under voter suppression.

28:48we now know that we have a voice we have a strength and we have to use it and we must never let anybody keep us down so I feel now that I have a big family and I won't sound out of place anymore and there's many things that I want to do my book write a book I don't know I'm just enjoying all these wonderful ideas. I want to share people's stories that I think the world should see and know. And so that's why I started Omni Media. And I want to just make everyone, when they say the globe, really be in touch with what's going around in the globe. And I'm blessed that I do travel around the globe enough that I think I'll be able to do that.

29:44Go Naomi. One last question from me. You are not just a pioneer trailblazer. You're really kind and generous and you really give credit to all the people that have been a big part of your life. I know Azadeen Alaya, Nelson Mandela. Asadine Alaia was my papa. President Nelson Mandela was my tata. He called me his honorable granddaughter, which was a true honor for me. So unexpected. I was so shocked when that happened. um i've been blessed i was blessed to have to have him in my life for 20 solid years and it's the it's the words that he didn't say that mattered i could sit with him and hold his hand for an hour at the dinner table and it's what he didn't say most humble incredible forgiving forgiving i mean most people would be like after what he went through why should he forgive he should be, you know, not at all.

30:48He's the most forgiving man I ever met. And Azzedine Alaya was a very similar type of person who was a major influence in my life since I was 16. Embraced me, walked me into his home, lived under his roof. Also very humble. What they both had, these men, was humble, forgiving, so full of humility and very protective. And I really believe that I've I've been like other people like Gianni Brasacci that were in my life when I was younger that I feel protected me from a lot of things that I hear about, that I care about knowing and want to help to stop and bring awareness to stopping. But I never got involved in because I was so lucky and blessed to have these wonderful people in my life.

31:38Wonderful family, I should say. Extended family. Extended family. What is the one, the best piece of advice that you got from them or anyone else? Oh, President Mandela said to me that I should never be ashamed of who I am. I should speak my truth and use who I am to help others. And that's something that I try to live by. I'm not, I don't, I don't ever want to put, I don't like being put on a pedestal because I'm human and we all make mistakes. but in terms of using myself to help others I try to live by that yeah that's that's just that's why you're so remarkable uh Naomi my mother's been watching making comments my five daughters and and so wow she's like she's making comments on the on the so on behalf of my whole family and my team and everyone who's been watching.

32:40Thank you. You're just amazing. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you everyone for watching. This has been so thrilling and delightful. Thank you.