$DJT Goes Nuclear, OpenAI in talks at $750B, 2025 Model Wars in Review | Brian Armstrong & Tarek Mansour, Simon Eskildsen

26:40They went like super viral for this because they made a entire, They basically clowned every startup vibe reel. Oh, you have a cinematic vibe reel? We had our whole team sing a jingle and filmed it and put it on TV. Send it out on a physical thing. And then they sent it out on a physical thing. This is very, very cool. A portable cassette. Is that made to look like a cassette tape? I think it's actually a cassette. Yeah, this is crazy. Wow. I didn't even know we knew how to make cassettes. This is a very, very good drop. Like, just as a drop. It's hilarious. It also feels like them leaning in because I know that the response to that Blackstone video was not overwhelmingly positive.

27:23People were like, what is this? But clearly it's an inside joke and like the team finds it funny and they were doing it tongue in cheek and they were having fun with it. And they had a lot of 1980s throwback cameos there. That's great. Anyway, thank you to good folks over at Blackstone for sending over this. And go listen to the full song and watch the video if you haven't already. Numeral, compliance, handled. Numeral worries about sales tax and VAT compliance so you can focus on growth. In our newsletter today, we did a little review of the model wars. Of course, our newsletter, you can get it at tbpn.com.

28:01Tech analysis and news, we have a daily op-ed, top headlines and more. Sign up at tbpn.com. So, what a year. Just in terms of model releases, August 7th, OpenAI releases GPT-5. September 29th, Anthropic releases Clawed Sonnet 4.5. Then the day after, OpenAI releases Sora 2. The same day, Meta releases the Meta Ray-Bans displays. November 3rd, OpenAI and Amazon announce a partnership valued at$38 billion. November 12th, 5.1 drops from OpenAI. November 17th, XAI releases Grok 4.1. November 18th, Google releases Gemini 3. Massive response to that. It's crazy that that was just one month ago. November 20th, Nano Banana Pro comes out.

28:51Then November 24th, Anthropic releases Claude Opus 4.5. We talked to Sholto about that. And then December 1st, DeepSeek releases DeepSeek version 3.2. And of course, before the end of the year, OpenAI had to fire back with GPT 5.2 on December 11. And then December 17, Google releases Gemini 3 Flash. Also today, I think OpenAI released 5.2 Codex. So like the coding model version. They're starting to stagger them out a little bit more. Well, I do. Which I think is smart, right? I was wondering about this with Logan. Do you think there'll be a period where we get on annual release cadences? and it's just like, oh, the model is like GPT-2026.

29:35I'm running the 26 model. Or do you think it'll be random? I think so, but we're not quite at the plateau where I think that would make sense. Right now, every company is fighting for market share. And if you can release tomorrow, that's a lot better than releasing. But there is a world where OpenAI takes 5.1 and 5.2 and says, you know what? That's GPT-6. that's GPT seven, right? Like they could, and people would be like, Whoa, this is like really incremental. So they use the 0.1, but they also didn't do it's 5.0.1. I think the reason, I think the reason that there's so much pressure to launch is there's pressure to be at the top of the benchmarks, right?

30:15In other product categories, it's not like there's like this like very specific way that you're talking about in cars, Nürburgring. Sure, sure. But I'm talking in like, in like enterprise software typically it's not like somebody launches a product and then somebody else launches a product and investors can look at and be like well okay i think this one is just objectively better yeah and and so i think that you know just given the the goal to sit at the top of the benchmarks you know there's going to be a mess the benchmark is uh like arr numbers that you might give to the press or fundraising which you know traditionally done to every 12 to 18 months, but sometimes can happen four times in a year.

30:57Yeah. For a certain company. What do you think? Also, I just want to say, Brandon, who wrote the piece, he said at the end, he said, it seems like the doomers, people who believe AI will turn us all into paperclips, have been defanged, which is good. I disagree that that's true. It seems like AI is like, I think there's this whole narrative where like, oh, AI is stagnating. Yeah. Where it's like, bro, look at the benchmarks. It's like, it's on the trend. Look at the benchmarks. They're saturating. It's incredible. Exactly. If the benchmarks are, I mean, what does that tell you if benchmarks are saturating?

31:26We don't even have good benchmarks anymore because models are way too good. Gabe says benchmarks are just as useful as a used piece of toilet paper. Exactly. That's the whole point. If models were bad, benchmarks would be useful. So, I mean, the risk is like there was a moment where just multiplying two really, really big numbers together on a computer, like you needed more memory to do like, you know, a thousand digits times a thousand digits. Like your basic calculator had a limit. And then eventually it got to the point where you have enough RAM that this computer here can sit and, I don't know, calculate the number of digits in pi to like, you know, 10 ,000 digits, right?

32:11Probably pretty quickly. Progress along that line is not necessarily the same line of progress towards like human labor replacement even like we got we got calculators that can calculate any any math perfectly in fractions of a second and it was useful in a million ways but no one's calling that like a g i a s i it can do anything and so yeah because that's like specific intelligence exactly specific intelligence And so we've created a bunch more lanes of specific intelligence, but people feel still dissatisfied with the fact that, yes, the spikes are getting longer, but it doesn't feel like the intelligence is getting any less spikier.

33:00That's what Brandon's feeling. There's nothing about the benchmarks. When you show me a new model card, I'm just like, cool, spiky. The spikes got spikier. Awesome. There's nothing where it's like, oh, okay. it's no longer spiky. Sure. I mean, like when I use coding models, they're like way better. Yeah. That's one of the spikes. That's one of the spikes. That's spiking even bigger. Okay, but if you just get enough spikes, then like what's the difference between a ton of spikes and, you know, just like a circle, right? Like, you know. Yeah, this is the diagram. You've seen the diagram, right? Yeah, yeah.

33:33Where it's like you have the circle with the little tiny spikes where the human's better at. Also, there are benchmarks that like there was the Vend. It was like Anthropic Vend where Claude runs a vending machine. In the beginning of the year, they released their first paper. I don't know when it was. It was a couple months ago. They released the first part of the paper. And Claude was horrible. It lost a ton of money running the vending machine. Then I think today they released a new one where it's like, Claude is profitable. Yeah. We need to get you a massive winter coat to get through this AI winter.

34:01Because the AI winter is happening, dude. I'm telling you. There's no AI winter. There is. There is. I mean, it's the age of research, okay? The age of research is the age of winter. Can you imagine? It's like June next year. It's hot in the ultradome. Tyler, just keep the coat on, buddy. You can't take it off until it's over. Until it's over. No, I mean, the progress is... People want AI to stagnate so bad. They do. So many people want that. They do. And it's not happening, though. It's like the models are getting better. Literally, everyone without bags is saying it's stagnating. Well, no, because all those people are like, oh, like I missed NVIDIA or whatever.

34:39Oh, you think Carpathia is like, I missed NVIDIA. so I got to go trash AI. Well, Karpathy, I think he's very excited about what AI is like right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think we can all agree, Tyler, that it's the age of research, but it's also the age of deals. Okay. We got to talk about Trump media and technology. This morning I woke up and, you know, a lot of people that, you know, do like mental health podcasts, they say, look at your phone within five seconds. opening your eyes. Just immediately connect with the internet and just sort of start kind of marinating in all the notifications that you maybe got over the last eight hours.

35:22That's what I did this morning. I opened my eyes. I immediately grabbed my phone. I see this push notification, I think it was from Bloomberg, that Truth Social Parent to merge with nuclear fusion firm in a$6 billion deal. And I thought I was dreaming still because it just seemed insane. Trump's been so active this year on the deal-making side. Who would have thought he had another multi-billion dollar deal to do this year? So of course, Trump Media and Technology Group, the social media and crypto company, part owned by President Trump, said it would develop a utility scale fusion power plant.

36:02Fusion, not fission. Correct. President Trump's social media company, which recently expanded into streaming and cryptocurrency, is now entering its fourth act, fusion power, promising but still unproven source of alternative energy. DJT and Tay Technologies have said Thursday they had agreed to an all-stock merger that the company's valued at more than$6 billion. The deal would be a metamorphosis for Trump Media, the money-losing parent company of True Social, a social media platform that has struggled to gain market share beyond serving as the main online megaphone for President Trump. Mr. Trump is the company's largest shareholder with a large stake worth more than$1 billion that is held in a trust.

36:42We're trust maxing, of course, managed by Don Jr., who is a Trump Media board member. The company, based in Sarasota, Florida, has only a few dozen full-time employees and has recorded tens of millions of losses in recent years. The merger with Tay would create one of the first publicly traded nuclear fusion companies, according to the release. The company said they intend to begin construction on the first utility-scale fusion power plant next year with plans to build additional plants in the future. So the stock is, of course, up pretty dramatically today. The CEO over at Tay, Mitchell Bendenbauer, says we've got the tools and the tech and the engineering.

37:27What we were lacking was the capital. So I did a – I went over to Gemini and got a little background on Tay Technologies. Interesting company. It's the – T-A-E stands for Tri Alpha Energy, which is pretty – I think a pretty cool name. It's also good advice if you're beta. Just try being alpha. Or just rebrand. Rebrand. Rebrand to an alpha. Yeah. Actually, I used – yeah, that was – I used to be beta. Try? Try? TRI? TRI. Not TRY. Yeah. Not Tri being it. Tri Alpha. Hey. Try Sigma. Try whatever we're doing. Sigma Energy. Yeah. Would be a great name for a small modular reactor company. I mean, there's a trading firm, Two Sigma, and it's two guys.

38:14No, but Sigma, you know, it's a lone wolf. You know that they had like a founder breakup because they were literally two Sigmas. No, because one of them was Two Sigma. Oh, T-O-O. No, I think the nominative determinism is that you put two lone wolves together and it didn't work. And they were fighting constantly. So the Two Sigma guys broke up. Anyway, so the company was founded in 1998 and spent over 25 years developing a unique approach to fusion that focuses on a new tronic power energy generation that produces no harmful neutron radiation. they have raised from, I believe it's Google, Google, Chevron, and Goldman Sachs.

38:55Wow, okay. Great to see them all get some liquidity now, or at least shares in a company that is liquid. Sure. So does that mean Google is on the truth social cap table now? Google owns a piece of... The president's social network. I mean, I actually can't confirm this. it's possible they got some liquidity along the way, but it seems more likely that Google is now has a nice slug in, in, uh, DJT. Wait, I didn't even think about that because this is happening at the top co at DJT. So they own, they have exposure to fusion, cryptocurrency, social media, and streaming. I mean, Google famously never got, uh, Google circles working, uh, their, their Facebook competitor.

39:46They have YouTube, obviously, a behemoth. But in true social networking, they've struggled. Maybe this is a foothold for them. Roll in the entire thing at some point. People are going to talk trash about this. Like, oh, what is a social network doing building energy assets? But you look at what Amazon's doing, building massive data centers for AWS. Amazon owns Twitch. That's a social network. It's a streaming platform. What else does Amazon own. Well, they own some diesel generators for backup power at the data centers. Fusion, theoretically cleaner. Who would have thought that out of the Silicon Valley tech people, they would be using diesel while the big guy is using clean energy to power his social network.

40:36Something there. Fascinating, fascinating stuff. Anyway, let me tell you about Fall, generative media platform for developers. develop and fine-tune models with serverless GPUs and on-demand clusters. Trey in the chat says, this is such a weird deal. TAE is a legit company. Maybe they're all legit. Maybe they're all going legit. Maybe it works out. I don't know. I mean, Fusion's hard. What if True Social just puts up monster numbers? I mean, it's kind of funny. It's so hard to call what's legit right now. It really is an interesting test given that when I type Truth Social into my browser, effectively the homepage is just Donald Trump's profile.

41:19And they do have a lot of ads on here. And it'll be interesting to understand, like, what is this web page actually worth? Well, we'll find out. I mean, Truth Social, I think if you went back in time a year or two ago when Truth Social was started, which I believe Trump was out of the office. He was not president when he started it. And you asked anyone, like, what will the terminal value of this asset be? Everyone would be like, it's not going to be over a billion dollars. And then when it went out, it was like, okay, yeah, maybe they expect it, but it's going to trade down a ton. It's like, I think it's still a multi-billion dollar company, right?

41:56DJT. What's the market cap? Four billion. billion still like that's well that's higher than a lot of people thought that's it traded up uh almost 40 percent just today so yeah well we were doing a deep dive on the company a year ago so you know what category you know there's alpha here what categories is djt not in space pharma robotics robotics oh wait we know no they're in pharma right so i think t does have A biotech division? Yeah, a life sciences division. Okay. So I'm very bullish on them kind of going into pharma. Yeah, you've got to go further out on the sci-fi curve. No one's pitching a time travel company yet.

42:38I think that that's an interesting area to get into. You know, what happens after you're traveling through space? You must travel through time, the fourth dimension. I mean, you could break time travel into life sciences, right? Because you freeze yourself when you wake up in 20 years. You can't go back, though. Yeah. Dyson Sphere. No one's come out and said, we're the company that's going to do the Dyson Sphere. It's been much more incremental visions. Anyway. Truth Gestual is also getting into the prediction market game. No way. Launching a native prediction market feature in the app. It's crazy that they're not partnering with anyone.

43:14I wonder if it'll be like, predict, trade on the content of Trump's next post. That would be fascinating. Very fascinating. I mean, it's just an interesting, I am interested to see how the future presidents approach business, right? Who was the guy with the peanut farm? Jimmy Carter. He got into a little hot water because of his peanut farm. I think he didn't fully divest. No, he did divest. But he still got in hot water? No. It's just remarkable because the peanut farm was so small and so insignificant in the U.S. economy and even in his personal balance sheet. But the fact that he was saying, look, I don't want any, any idea of impropriety.

43:59So I'm going to divest from a small peanut farm that I'm associated with so that no one can say that I'm in the pocket of big peanut or I'm pro peanut or little peanut. And so the fact that Jimmy Carter divested from the peanut farm, he was not in big oil or railroad baron or associated with banking. He had very little conflict of interest, and he reduced it even further. That's always been a sign of what great looks like, and it's been a role model for some presidents. Some presidents have looked and said, well, if Jimmy Carter did it this way, I should also do it this way. Yeah. Anyway. Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet, state-of-the-art reasoning, next-level vibe coding, and deep multimodal understanding.

44:47There is a crazy story in the - Joe Weisenthal, by the way, one more. He says, sharing that DJT is up 35 % to a new 30-day high. And Joe says, Trump has been in founder mode for a long time, getting all kinds of criticism about the business from people who aren't actually in the arena. Yeah. It is crazy the degree to which he is a successful technology founder. Truly. Like, you know, billions of dollars in market cap. People can have their issues with the president, but they cannot deny that. They cannot say with a straight face that he is not a technology entrepreneur. He's never founded a unicorn tech company.

45:29He's never taken a social media app public. You can't say that. You can't say that. But he's never merged with a nuclear fusion company backed by Chevron and Google and Goldman Sachs. For sure. Dave, you've seen this chart, the AI investment cycle visualized. Almost$1 trillion has been invested into AI so far, and that may just be the start. Look at this graph. This is an interesting way to visualize the flow of money. because we see it as these moments in time, a$10 billion deal here,$100 billion deal there. This is showing the investment over time. And you can see NVIDIA flowing to Amazon and all the different companies.

46:14Where's OpenAI? OpenAI is just flowing around. It's just a cool little data visualization. I thought this was fun to look at. Anyway. Did you see Brett Adcock has a new startup? No. Yeah, figure CEO Brett Adcock launches new AI lab with$100 million in funding. Wow. Brett Adcock, of course, the CEO of robotics startup figure AI, who we believe might have some big news soon based on their holiday party, Deadmau5, has started a new AI lab called Hark, which will be funded by$100 million of his personal capital, according to a copy of a memo Adcock sent to figure employees and investors on Thursday, seen by Stephanie Palazzolo.

46:58The AI lab will be focused on building human-centric AI, which can think proactively, recursively, and care deeply about people. Hark's first cluster of GPUs went online on Monday. Memo said that it couldn't be learned how large the cluster was. Adcock will remain the CEO figure in addition to his new role at Hark. Hark continues the trend of AI startup CEOs founding new companies while remaining at their old one. I remember Richard over at you launched a new lab himself more broadly well known researchers and executives have raised billions of dollars for so called neolabs in recent months which hope to exploit new approaches to developing models figure previously raised nearly 2 billion in funding from investors including Parkway Nvidia, Microsoft, etc so anyways interesting that he is diversifying when figures, valuation has just been going through the roof.

47:56He also has a company that does metal detectors at schools, right, along those lines. He is a serial entrepreneur. It's a bunch of stuff. Anyway, let me tell you about Fin.ai, the number one AI agent for customer service. Automate the most complex customer service queries on every channel. Tyler clearly has an alt. Tyler Glale. Tyler clearly put this in the show notes. Tyler, not our Tyler, but this other Tyler, says, can't wait for this AI bubble to pop so we can all go back to normal, just like how the internet completely disappeared after the dot-com bubble popped. It's another bullish take for AI.

48:35It's not going anywhere. Yeah, it's a great take. It is a great take. And 18 ,000 people agree it's a great take. I also think it's a great take. But this doesn't seem so fast takeoff build. more internet built, which is slow takeoff. The internet has a slow takeoff. Everyone thought it was going to be the internet is the superhighway. It's going to be, you know, a thousand X growth. Yahoo's going to be worth a trillion dollars. Like, you know, and then, you know, kind of settled in. Took a while for things to find use cases, find value. But eventually it did transform everything. But this time is different.

49:12I mean, yeah, this time's different. Exactly. Well, because this time we have the internet, so it's way faster to do distribution. Yes. I don't want to, you weren't even alive in the air, Tyler. I don't even want to, don't. I was racking servers in a data center while you were in the cradle.

49:31Meltem says, a lot of navel-gazing about venture. There are a lot of ways to make a couple hundred million dollars. There are a reasonable number of ways to make a billion. There are very few ways to make tens of billions of dollars. this makes a$1 billion fund with 10x DPI obscenely impressive. Is this a subtweet of someone in particular? Is someone saying this isn't? This isn't? So several, so Mike Chan says, ain't no$1 billion fund doing 10x DPI. And Meltem says, several have, which is wild. I'm trying to find in the comments a fund that actually did this. And I can't think of any personally.

50:07I'm sure they're out there. I'm sure they're out there. um but uh i don't know it's it's it's yeah all of that's impressive okay more more importantly this streamer cut the apple vision pro's weight in half whoa that's genius i this is this is innovation this is this is crazy innovation wow imagine walking into an office and every person there is just locked in with a balloon this is somehow more cyberpunk than just the default put the big screen on your face. I like this. And people say the Chinese can only copy and they can't invent new stuff. That's not true. Not true. It's completely disproven with this Vision Pro helium balloon.

50:52This would be Jesus. Imagine just being able to imagine. If you're a class clown coated, which I certainly am, imagine walking around the office and just with a little needle. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not going to hurt them. It's still strapped to their head. But you're popping their balloon, then they have to go get more helium, and helium is a scarce resource. True, true. I would hope that. Look, he's got a big canister there. He's got plenty. You should not be popping this, and you know why? Because Ty in the chat says this should be a blimp, and this is very blimp-coded, so you should allow this.

51:23I want this guy to make a personal blimp. It's just like a harness you can put on with enough helium to just take you up. I think the Mythbusters did that. You just get a bunch of balloons, yeah. And it worked? Doing that and then skydiving down would be pretty cool. You should work on that over the winter break. Well, whatever you're watching, you're Apple Vision Pro. Make sure it's restreamed. One live stream, 30-plus destination. If you want to multi-stream, go to restream.com. Oh, this is so, so funny. That AlphaTon Capital. Did you see this? AlphaTon Capital posts big news. There's AlphaTon, a ton of Alpha.

52:06We got a ton of Alpha over here at AlphaTon Capital. We're making a historic$30 million strategic investment in Anderle Industries. And they tag them. So we are investing in the future of defense tech and the convergence of decentralized AI with next-gen national security. This is a strategic bet on the companies of the future. This unprecedented investment positions AlphaTon at the forefront of next-generation defense technology infrastructure, marking a pivotal moment in the convergence of public markets and advanced national security capabilities, NASDAQ, ATON. And so they're trying to become an andrel, like, hold co, basically, or a treasury company.

52:45And Palmer just, quote, tweets them into the stratosphere by saying, Alphaton is lying. This is not true. Public heads up to CEO Brittany Kaiser slash own your data now, the whistleblower, who is Bitcoin, AlphaTon Capital. That's the, I guess that's the owner of this. You do not have permission to use my trademarks to defraud your investors. And Brittany says, hey, Palmer, we signed an agreement to purchase economic exposure to Anduril shares through an SPV and to accumulate more exposure over time and offer access via formal secondaries product. Given our network's demand for your innovative tech, I will issue a clarification.

53:28And Palmer says, that isn't what you and your company said, though, to be extremely clear. Anderle has to authorize these types of transfers, and I will not authorize it. Wow. And Sarah was there saying, so much nonsense, fraud happening in these layered SPVs. This is such a crazy, crazy moment. What is the history of this company? The company went out at$280 per share in December of 2020. it's now sitting at exactly 69 cents. So I wonder what they have been up to. But yeah, that, I mean, that was a crazy, it looks like somebody, like this looks like an AI bot is just like posting, but this is a public company.

54:15Yeah, it does look like just some sort of like complete slop scam. Like you would assume that, you would assume that if you go down this particular funnel, you wind up at like, hey, send me some random crypto or something. It feels very scammy. Palmer is sort of calling it a scam, but it is a public company, I guess. Yeah. I'm sure Anderle's legal counsel will really enjoy. Having a nice, calm holiday weekend, I'm sure, while they clean this mess up. One of many. But it's a champagne problem. And let's come back to this later because we have our guests in the Restream waiting room. While we're bringing them in, let me tell you about Cognition.

54:57The team behind the AI software engineer, Devin, crush your backlog with a personal AI engineering team. Merry Christmas to everyone. We have Brian Armstrong from Coinbase. And Tarek is back on the show. So many repeat guests. It's so great to see both of you. Congratulations on all the fantastic success. Brian, would you mind kicking us off with a little high-level overview of the news? Good to see you. Yeah, sure. Good to see you guys again. Well, we had a great product event yesterday in San Francisco. We announced the Everything Exchange. So we've got stock trading on there. We've got prediction markets.

55:33We've got millions of tokens now trading through decentralized exchanges. We've got simple derivatives. We announced a ton of stuff yesterday. and one of the big ones was prediction markets, which we're happy to partner with Calci on. We love Calci. They've been awesome to work with. That's great. And prediction markets are huge. They're an important asset class for people who are trading them, but it's also a way for people to get information about what's going to happen in the world. So it's kind of an alternative to traditional media. It's entertainment. It's everything. And yeah, Calci's awesome.

56:05So talk to me about how the Calci integration actually works. Is it more like, is this a B2B deal? Will a Coinbase customer actually be seeing the CallStreet logo? Will they need, if they have two accounts, are the accounts linked? How are you thinking about kind of the integration kind of taking shape over the next year or however you can talk about it? Yeah, well, it's a white-labeled integration. And Tarek can talk more about his strategy of being a provider to lots of different companies. So it made it really easy to integrate. I mean, it's not an exclusive arrangement, right? So we can integrate with other ones.

56:38We could launch our own. But for right now, we're very happy building on top of CalShift. It's allowed us to get to market really quickly. And from a Coinbase point of view, I'd say just, you know, TradFi and crypto is intersecting. Or you could say another way to say it would be that crypto is just eating all financial services. So Coinbase is the leader in the space. We've got the most trusted brand. We've got the most deep crypto expertise. We've got, we're storing more crypto than any other company in the world by far, about$500 billion of assets. And so if they can trade everything where their assets reside, it's our key to winning.

57:10Tarek, take me through how this plays into your growth strategy, your growth trajectory for the next year. Is this just a new way, a new top of funnel? Is this actually building up more liquidity, opening up different markets? Are we going to see different culture markets because of this partnership? how do you think things are going to evolve over the next year? Yeah, maybe let me answer actually at the personal level. I don't know if you saw Luana's tweet yesterday, which is funny. The first time we actually both interfaced with Coinbase was when we got the$100 of free crypto. No way. Our freshman year at MIT.

57:48Amazing. Nice. So we had to sign up. We got the$100. And a decade later, we're partnering with Coinbase. Just like an amazing kind of personal moment. But from a company perspective, our goal has been sort of there's the first-party product, the cashier.com, but at the same time, we're building an exchange, and each of these products require liquidity. And liquidity has a bit of a sort of this aspect of more liquidity begets more liquidity. And as you partner with sort of brokerages or large platform with, as Brian said, like huge customer base, huge deposits, that brings more flow to the exchange, which improves the liquidity and thus the product for everybody else, including Coinbase.

58:27itself. So we're very excited about this partnership. You know, I believe, you know, there's going to be like a long kind of range of markets available on Coinbase that people can participate in. And over time, we're going to be adding increasingly more markets. So lots of work to do. This is just a start. How, like, you guys spend a ton of time talking to users. And I also feel like you guys have both gone viral for different things that you've talked about related to prediction markets over the last couple of weeks. And everybody online is going to form their opinion of why prediction markets are good or bad or this or that.

59:04But like how, yeah, maybe I just kind of wanted to understand like how consumers feel, maybe on your side, Brian, I'm assuming like you and the team spend a bunch of time talking to people and understanding what users want out of prediction markets on the Coinbase app and what they're most excited about. Yeah, well, obviously sports is such a big category that is driving a lot of demand right now. And I think that that's an important use case that we see from our customers, that there's demand for that. You know, I think there's a lot of open questions about how that's going to be treated in society and go through the courts and everything.

59:41And, you know, we think ultimately the CFTC will have federal preemption here. And a bunch of states are, you know, a little grumpy about that, but that's fine. But prediction markets is much broader than just sports, right? It's people betting on economic indicators and trying to figure out, like, is the Suez Canal going to be open next month and political outcomes. And I think the number of markets could just be dramatically higher. And 1 % of people are using it as an asset class to trade. But 99 % of people looking at these are using it as a way to figure out what's going to happen in the world next.

1:00:17So it's actually broader. It's something like an alternative to traditional media. I think like actually Tarek told me a really powerful idea, which is that policymakers could actually use this to determine what are the best policies to implement, right? Like let's say you're trying to put out some policy to try to build more housing in San Francisco or to reduce unemployment. You could actually put this on a prediction market, get real signal from the market about what would happen if these were actually implemented and then use that to choose the best policy. So I think prediction markets are a really powerful tool.

1:00:48that that example in particular how like who are the market participants in that situation because i could imagine i mean i i think a lot of people's like big big concern is that you end up with uh is it like like like if i'm if i'm a big if i'm a big housing developer or something like that i i could potentially get in like you know try to influence policy through like sort of like trading that market and maybe so i don't know i i think part part of why like you got uh anybody in the project prediction market space keeps going viral is like in any of these situations i feel like there ends up being um like it's easy to imagine like some kind of negative externalities but i guess that's the case for all new technology yeah yeah well tarik should talk more about it but i think the game theory is so interesting because there's both there's parties on both sides who stand to gain or lose.

1:01:42And if you really believe that the housing market would be better for your business, whatever, you can go invest in that contract. But if you're wrong, you stand to lose a bunch of money. So it's actually the best signal that you can get with people having real skin in the game. Because think about what's the alternative? It's essentially pollsters running around and surveying people. And there's kind of like people's revealed preference versus their stated preference. Sometimes people will state, oh, my preference is X. But the revealed preference turns out to be actually something different because there's real skin in the game.

1:02:12So I think prediction markets have much stronger signal than traditional polling. But I don't know. Tarek, you're the expert here. What do you think? We've dealt with this a lot, right? Back last year when we were fighting the government to legalize election markets and we won that lawsuit, the criticism was, could people kind of use money to influence the odds, move them up or down in either way. And the best argument for that is like, well, if you really wanted to sort of influence the perception of who's going to win an election or whether a certain policy is good or bad, you would influence the polls.

1:02:45It's super easy. There's no cost. You can sample in a certain way. There's all sorts of ways where you can bias it. Or you can go on TV and say a bunch of things, which is how most of us get informed about what's happening in the world. Right like you can tweet or say a bunch of things with no skin and game or repercussions and like Brian said The elegant thing about prediction markets is there's a very strong monetary incentive to be truthful and a very strong monetary disincentive to lie You know people don't lie when money is involved and so that's over time prediction markets tend to be a more accurate gauge About what's going to happen, but in this specific example about what we should do when it comes to certain policies Yeah, and what you said And we can certainly, you know, because the debate around which markets are genuinely sort of valuable and necessary and all that stuff will continue for a long time.

1:03:38Is there a meaningful distinction there around like positive sum markets versus zero sum markets? It feels like that might be sort of some of the vibe shift that's happening is like if you create a financial product that allows people to invest in this, you know, The American stock market broadly, it's gone up historically. It's most likely positive sum. But there can only be one winner of the Super Bowl. And so it's sort of a zero-sum market. Is that a reasonable framework to think about where the activity is shifting? We're shifting from maybe more positive sum markets to zero sum? Or is that not a factor?

1:04:17I mean, Brian, let me know what you think. But I don't think so. So, I mean, the derivatives market, so options or futures, all of these markets have historically been zero sum. Okay, yeah. Right? But they're still very useful. Yeah. And, you know, people usually criticize these markets. The main criticism is they're speculators. People that are sort of like speculating on an outcome. And that's okay because without speculators, you don't get the benefits. You don't get the price and forecasting benefits. And if there are certain people that want to hedge on something, like they are adversely impacted by something going on, like, I don't know, Brexit happening or an election going a certain way or the other.

1:04:50or even the sports markets, which happens pretty often, they kind of need the liquidity. And so the healthy balance is basically a balance between sort of people that drive usefulness out of the markets and speculators. And that's how any of these traditional markets operate. Yeah. Yeah, I think one thing that's undeniable is that it's a very entertaining experience just to use the data, like scrolling and trying to understand and this idea of having visibility into things that could become the future headlines of the world. And I appreciate that that is a sort of a public benefit that is created through people that are choosing to trade these markets.

1:05:30Do you have any insight into, I mean, Brian, you've done a great job at running a firm that winds up servicing institutional investors as well in institutions, in addition to consumers. and there's been some viral chatter around prediction markets potentially either replacing or augmenting insurance products. And the initial reaction to that was like, wait, instead of just getting like fire insurance, I have to be like trading a contract every single day. But I was actually thinking about like maybe in the future, there's a new insurance firm that's using some sort of prediction market under the hood.

1:06:08Have you thought about what the role of institutions in a world where the liquidity around prediction markets is increasing? How do institutions come in and actually maybe build products around prediction markets that have value to a different consumer? Yeah, well, just zooming out, I mean, you're correct. Coinbase is serving multiple different customer segments. So like the Coinbase retail app is what a lot of people know us for. That's probably the most comparable to Robinhood, for instance. But we also have product for businesses. We have product for institutions that's the leading. We have a developer platform.

1:06:40We have a self-custodial wallet. So we're doing a lot of different things. On the prediction market for insurance point of view, I mean, that's an interesting idea. Actually, I hadn't looked too much into that. I think institutions are going to start trading prediction markets. I doubt that'll be the first place they go, but I could see them using that over time. Yeah.

1:07:02Yeah, it's clearly like we're at the very early stages of all this. I am interested in some of the other Coinbase launches. Can you take us through some of the other stuff, particularly Coinbase Advisor? I'm interested in just any time a big company has a ton of data and is actually surfacing something that's AI-powered. How do you think about delivering that product? What were the trade-offs that you made, and how will you be measuring success? Yeah, so Coinbase Advisor is there to help you manage your financial life. And it can ingest all the information from your portfolio. It also knows your preferences around risk tolerance.

1:07:43And you can do anything in there from asking it to, hey, help me build a better portfolio to earn more yield or look for opportunities in the market around X, Y, or Z. But it can also prompt you with things that you might have not even known to ask about, right? So every day it's out there kind of ingesting the information on the internet with some context about what you need and want. And it'll present opportunity to you at time about macro events happening in the market, which might create trading opportunities. So I think just broadly, we think that AI is useful for, it's kind of a barbell, right?

1:08:16It's useful for a segment of people who might not have as much financial literacy as they want or maybe not even understand how to use all of these tools. But it's also powerful for advanced traders who just want to eliminate repetitive tasks and toil that everybody has to deal with in their financial life, right? So AI is disrupting every business out there. Like financial services is no exception. And we want to make sure we're leading on that front. You mentioned preemption. Can you both maybe give me a little tour of any expectations or what you're looking for in Washington in 2026? What are you watching?

1:09:02What do you think the U.S. government needs to get right for your industries to succeed in 2026? Well, I'm happy to start and then, Tarek, I'll turn it to you. But the main thing Coinbase is focused on is actually getting market structure legislation passed. So you may recall like the Clarity Act went through the House already. It got a strong bipartisan vote. The Senate is now deliberating in the Senate Ag and Senate Banking Committees their own draft text for market structure legislation. So that would be a landmark piece of legislation if it goes through to complement the Genius Act, which went through for stable coins earlier this year.

1:09:33So that's where we're primarily focused. And it's looking positive that in early 2026, the Senate committees will vote on that. And fingers crossed. Now, there's a whole other separate work stream around prediction markets, but I don't know, Tarek, you want to touch on that? Yeah, Brian, I know you have to jump, so feel free to take off. I think you had a hard out, but you're welcome to hang. I'm good for a few minutes. Yeah, Tarek, I'd love to hear from a regulatory standpoint how you're looking at 2026. What's your monitoring? Yeah, I mean, I think the state of the world right now is actually relatively clear, at least in our shared views.

1:10:09We just started and launched a coalition on prediction markets a week ago, and there's a number of participants in it, including Coinbase. And really, it's all about clarifying and making sure that everybody understands that financial markets are regulated at the federal level and not a state-by-state thing. And yes, as the financial markets expand and they touch more people, as you build financial markets that are relatable to a larger audience, there are going to be some interests that are going to get ruffled, including some state interest, casinos, or others. And so it's not too surprising there's opposition.

1:10:44It usually means that we're onto something big, and there's re-innovation happening. So really, I think as the whole process plays out, it's about proving our side of the case. And I think that's going pretty well so far. And then educating policymakers about what this is really about, how it works, how it's regulated at the federal level so that they understand it. It makes a lot of sense. Well, congratulations on the partnership, guys, and all the launches, Brian. You guys have both had a very big year. Yeah, we barely scratched the surface. There's like five more things we didn't get to that you launched us yesterday.

1:11:16But, you know, it's the end of the year. So hope you all have a fantastic holiday season and hope to see you both on the show in 2026. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, guys. The Coinbase team's firing on all cylinders, so it was cool to get a bunch of those announcements out and people can check out the live stream if they haven't seen it yet. Fantastic. Thanks so much. Fantastic. Thanks for catching up, guys. Cheers. Cheers. Let me tell you about Figma. Think bigger, build faster. Figma helps design and development teams build great products together. Back to new coinage. Okay, now we've got to get to chew by.

1:11:53Chew by, this is the new phrase. This is the new word you've got to learn. People know chunked. People know chopped. People know washed. The Duchess of Bushwick says, this is a screenshot. I don't know if it's hers. But yeah, so it's recently invented the word chubai, which is when something is both chops and also spiritually dubai. Examples, so house, Goyard, Pandora, Carbone, Kith. Drop your chubai things in the comments. You know, I learned about Kith from this show. We were doing cars for various personas, us and you said a kith bmw m5 or something yeah they have like a collab yeah they haven't i had no idea what you meant by that but now i know now i know very yes it's chomped and spiritually may as well be a bmw so house i gotta say i think it's spiritually very english i mean that's obviously the origin of it but uh but yeah again again but is england spiritually dubai now who No, it's possible.

1:13:01Van Cleef, they're saying. You've got to go through the comments here. Cartier, Love Brace, the Dry Bar, Soul Psycho. Oat milk. No, it's not. Oat milk is definitely chew by. Chew by. Better to be chew by than just chopped, though. I don't. Yeah, but also I don't want to. There's a lot of great things about Dubai. You can rent an SF90 for the day for like a grand. I did that at one point during F1 in 2022 if you ever fall off people are going to be calling you Chew-Buy for sure Chew-Buy no I mean being able to drive around at the time a$750 ,000 car for massive Balenciaga sneakers I saw these at breakfast this morning are those Chew-Buy?

1:13:51I don't think so junkiest kind of raddiest sneakers and john was just shocked and i had to you you kind of predicted that they were like technically nice or expensive footwear yeah but uh you you were really processing that for a while well it was like they either came from that or they came from like uh like a a gift shop at a at a at a six flags it was one or the other and i was sort of i was sort of dialing it I was like, it could be Six Flags gift shop tier shoe, or it could be something extremely exclusive that needed to be waited in line for and cost thousands of dollars. And it was the latter.

1:14:31Anyway, Julius AI, the AI data analyst that works for you. Join millions who use Julius to connect their data, ask questions, and get insights in seconds. Peter Abiel is Amazon's new AGI head. Teapot needs no introduction to him since GDP. He is a pioneer in robotics and deep reinforcement learning. He has 231 ,000 citations. He's a professor at UC Berkeley. He is neither Chopped nor Dubai. He is Berkeley. He's number 28 on the menace list. Let's go. There you go. Actually, very sad that we didn't get that mentioned here. But I love that Bookworm Engineer, GDP here, is giving a little bit more on him.

1:15:23Says he has been Amazon's distinguished scientist and vice president and scholar since 2024, focused on advancing AI and robotics. He has advised legendary doctoral candidates like Chelsea Finn of physical intelligence and John Schulman, ex-OpenAI, ex-Anthropic, and now co-founder of Thinking Machines. He's an absolute dog. Let's give it up for Peter Abil, the new head of AGI at Amazon. Really fantastic news. And bookworm engineer, thanks for putting this on the timeline. I appreciate you sharing this news. But also, I was thinking about bookworms, the word bookworm. Like, what did that say when they started using it?

1:16:02Just chewing through books. Is that what it is? Or is it like they saw books as slop? They saw books as, you know, oh, you're a bookworm. You're worming around on the ground. You're a slug. Okay, so I looked up the etymology. Etymology of bookworm. Give it to me. People who read too much comparing them to actual insects that burrowed into and damaged books. It's brain rot. It's the original brain rot. No, it's not. It is. No, no, it's not. These are like, if you had a, so if you, somebody leaves a bunch of books in a shed, for example, the bugs are going to chew into them. I think that's what.

1:16:35Yes, but it was derogatory. Like a book termite. It was derogatory. I think of it as like. It was saying, you read too many books, you need to touch grass. You know the very hungry catapult. You need to stop reading books, go outside. What? The very hungry catapult. Yes, yes, yes. That's how I imagine a bookworm, just chomping, just. Yes, yes, yes. That is the activity. And someone who has brain rot and is on TikTok all day, they are chewing through the feed, for sure. but when you say someone has brain rot, it's a pejorative. It's negative. Well, the only thing is bookworm, I never saw that as like a negative.

1:17:03That's because we think of books as high art. We think of them as positive. You're saying at some point, maybe people were saying. You need to cool it with the books, brother. You need to get outside, touch grass. You go ride a horse. Go till the fields. Go till the fields, exactly. Why are you so obsessed with these books? This new technology is one-shotting you. You know, amazing book. You're lost in the world of the book. Hit the mines. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Get outside. Go to the forest. I don't know. The bookworm thing, it makes me feel that at one point, books were, I mean, there's that famous picture of everyone on the subway reading the newspaper, and it's like, oh, people are so absorbed with the newspaper.

1:17:40Like, why can't they just log off and, like, talk to each other? Because they used to talk to each other. Then you gave them a newspaper. They're like, newspaper's better than making a friend over here. Anyway. I wonder. I'm a graphite.dev worm. graphite.dev code review for the age of ai graphite helps teams on github ship higher quality software faster what do you wonder oh uh you wonder about just this idea just this idea that there was a point in the future where everyone if in public spaces like trains buses planes etc was just just talking oh a point in the past yeah yeah it's like when that technology existed the written word also existed which implies that people probably kind of always had something that they were like can you imagine you you're sitting down on a train and you have like this book that you've been so excited to read yeah well books and the person the person that's true yeah so the person the person next to you is like excited but i want to talk for five hours with strangers today like the person with the book is going to be thinking hey i came here to read this but horses are older than books there was a moment when it was like hey we're gonna go over there lock in you were riding together and no you don't have a book to read you have to talk to me you don't have a phone you don't have a vr headset with a balloon attached you don't even have a book you just got me and your horse you're my horse your horse you got me and you and we're hanging out and talking and that's the original touching grass that we lost ever since the invention people don't know People don't know how to commute.

1:19:15I wonder if there's certain parts on a horse. I like that you're focusing on the commute. No, no. Specifically, you just got me thinking. No one commutes to work with a horse anymore. We don't know how to do it. And in some ways, you could set up kind of like a desk on the top, and you could be getting some emails done. Also, underrated. Horses, effectively self-driving. That's what I'm saying. You have self-driving technology. It's here. Self-driving. You have horses that are just self-driving. Because you can just say, hey, boy, go home. Go home. And the horse knows. Park. Park. I think we've got to bring him back.

1:19:51Bring him back. Return to Privy. Privy makes it easy to build on crypto rails. Securely spin up white-label wallets, sign transactions, and integrate on-chain infrastructure all through one simple API. Unlike Meta, Microsoft, or Apple, Amazon now has one of the best AI researchers in the world. This is Pedro Domingos. also shouting out Peter Abiel. Everyone loves it. It's fantastic news. Invest Like the Best has a clip here about Domino's Pizza. It's the best performing stock. Yeah, so Henry Elabogan. Let's play this clip. What was the best small cap company over that 10-year period in the 2010s?

1:20:33Well, actually, it was Domino's Pizza. Why was Domino's so good? But well, if you look at the pizza market in the United States, when Domino's basically started its run, you basically had a third of the market that was like local. And then the other third we know, right, there's the Nationals, Domino's, Papa John's, Little Caesars, others. And then the middle third, there used to be in D.C., this place called Armand's that had about 30 places and they had local or geographic scale. but they didn't have the scale of Domino's and they didn't have great pizza. And what happened was when Domino's started its run, well, first of all, it started by basically making the product a little bit better.

1:21:17But if you talk to Patrick Doyle, you know, who was CEO at the time, and you really study it, what they started doing was if there's three value equations in pizza, it's quality, value, and convenience. And what they realized is we really, really invest in technology. we can make convenience a lot better. And so they really invested in their app. Yeah, every few months the Domino's chart goes viral. It's a classic. Very early on they could then target that customer more efficiently with couponing, what have you, drive scale through that box. And then when you basically do something well, right, you improve the product, probably was slightly above average, you really iterate on convenience and now you have a direct relationship with those customers all of a sudden actually the brand halo started getting a little bit better right because and you put all that together against a wonderful business model the franchise business model which is you know roi light and often those are the best stocks when you go study the markets because you're already in a in a physical world business where the technology advantage transitions into a physical mode advantage or distribution or scale advantage.

1:22:33That's one of the patterns we've observed. We call that the good to great thesis internally. Domino's Pizza Tracker, incredibly underrated. It really is. It really is. One of the best pieces of software in history.

1:22:53dominoes yeah it's interesting i mean it's a 15 billion dollar company today been kind of all over the place over the last five uh five years but all time is truly exceptional uh moving on we can pull up this uh landing page that reggie james is highlighting over at unitree we have the Unitree H2, Destiny Awakening. This copy goes pretty hard. You've got to give them that. Tyler, how do you rate it? Yeah, I mean, it's reminiscent of the, I don't want to get it wrong, but there's like the Hindu gods, right? They have a bunch of arms. Yeah. Am I getting this right? Yeah. The face is also very scary.

1:23:42The first Unitree does not have that kind of scary. Let's hit the gong for the most sus-looking. Cross that gong. Most sus-looking humanoid face to date. They did it. They did it. I was already in favor of banning the sale of Unitree in the United States. Of course, now that I see the face of the H2, I'm even more in favor. I heard a rumor that there might be some bans coming for something or other. So I'm looking at the site. it's like$30 ,000, which is still from everything we've heard at least, it seems much cheaper still than American That's such an insane landing page I mean, look at some of the other, can we click through, you see some of these other ones there's this Unitree H1 on the website that has these red fans on its hands, if you just pull up the website and it's very easy to imagine them has saws Team, how are we doing pulling this There we go.

1:24:46Okay, no. Go to the homepage, junitree.com. Go back and then press the arrow on the side. I'll keep going. These ones. Look at that, dude. Where is it spitting? So I think they're like decorative. It's clearly doing some type of celebration. It holds pizzas. But imagine if that thing had saws on its hands and it's just walking around. That's going to be pretty good. Very, very sketchy. At the same time, I want to fight one of these so badly because I want to know actually how far we are from it being able to kill me because I think I still have the edge. Even if it had some blades or something, I think I could just kick it really hard in the chest and it just goes down.

1:25:26With blades? Well, they're still very short. Yeah, they're small and they don't weigh that much. How much does it weigh? I think I got size. I mean, to be fair, I'm big, but I do think I could take one of those down pretty easily. Okay, so that would be an amazing montage just for the next 10 years. For the next 10 years, you fight a humanoid robot every January, and we just see the progress. Yeah. I think we should sneak me into one of those robot fighting leagues, and I just get in the octagon with them, just take it down. And they're like, that's not the point. Why did you destroy our Unitree?

1:25:56Be like, I thought this was what it was supposed to do. Interesting. Gabe says, Bill Gurley on the Tim Ferriss pod said Unitree didn't want outsiders to check out their factory. That could be. Bill Gurley, why are you leaking that? That's insane. Well, I mean, that's fair. That's very funny. Well, it could be two reasons. One is they're not making that many, and it's all by hand. The other is they have some type of insane alpha that they don't want to share. Yeah. There's a bunch of reasons. Or I don't know. Anyway, let me tell you about Profound. Get your brand mentioned in ChatGPT. Reach millions of consumers who just use AI to discover new products and brands.

1:26:37Alex Rampell says, sometimes the market for something done very well is 100 times the size of the market for something done okay. Yeah, this is interesting. I think about this. I mean, I'm just trying to think of examples. I think of this in the context, even just of the power law, right? You have like the best company in a category being worth 100 times. but this also I feel like can happen where maybe there's no market for something at all and then somebody comes in and makes something great and suddenly it actually... I mean, that's certainly the entire story of AI, which is probably what he was thinking of, was just the fact that...

1:27:23Yeah, chatbots. LLM, chatbots were so bad. Went through a hype cycle. And now they're actually good and it's a huge category. I mean, yeah, we went through a chatbot boom back in like 2017. Do you remember this? Yeah, and I mean, the market cap, I'm sure there were some chatbot companies that like delivered some value. I mean, when you use like the American Airlines app, like there's still like some Q &A, some business logic of like phone trees, essentially, our chatbots. And I'm sure some of those companies are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. There might even be a few unicorns there, but it's certainly not this like insane power law outcome.

1:27:59now it is because we went from very poorly done chatbots to amazing revolutionary chatbots what are you laughing at? 8sleep.com, exceptional sleep without exception fall asleep faster, sleep deeper wake up energized, also in the conference this is Alex Rampell somebody put an example 8sleep which is hilarious and awesome I just seen this post from Ben I put it in the timeline at the bottom of the timeline, pull it up Ben says, imagine looking for a new show and finding this. Yeah, it's so good.

1:28:37I was just laughing at like, yeah, the sack and the gong doesn't even make noise. You're really... We're tracking it. All right, that's enough. My ears are getting blown out. Thank you for that, Ben. We got to give a big congratulations to Vanith. he said one week ago I got clipped for drinking water now I'm joining XAI to build the future of AI this is the infamous photo too wow this is the photo that caused all the Klein dust up but wow congratulations to Vinita that's incredible hilarious and what a great way to lean in have some fun not take yourself too seriously although clearly a very serious engineer because he's got a job working on Macro Hard.

1:29:27No way. He's on the Macro Hard team going up against Microsoft. He's 19. He has a computer science degree from Georgia Tech, and he's got 15 ,000 followers on the Vinny Sauce IG slash TikTok. Seems like he's doing all sorts of stuff. Very fun. Congratulations to him. What a hilarious exchange. Delian is fired up about Jared Isaacman. Yes. the great United States. Jared is looking fantastic in this suit. It's so crazy he's actually been to space. That feels like, going forward, can we just make that a prerequisite? NASA admin? Future Scoop Hall of Famer Katie Roof is in the chat. She says thanks for the shout out.

1:30:15Shri deserved credit for the Scoop too. Credit to Shri. Sorry to give all the love to Katie, but she's everywhere. She's an animal, but great, great. Should we make going to space a prerequisite for being NASA administrator? Or on your first day on the job, they just got to blast you into space. I think it's just like it needs to be in the orientation. How can you go back? Your whole job is space. You've never been, and your predecessor's been, and you haven't. You got to go. You want to help us rule the stars, and you've never been there? But you've never tasted zero Gs? What are we doing here?

1:30:51We got it. this has to be a prerequisite. Bake it into the bill of rights. But he has been in space. He's been to space. But, and so like, you know, now there's this question about like, well, what about the next administrator? If the next administrator is like, yeah, like I'd love to go someday. It's like, oh, you can't, it doesn't hit the same as the last guy. Like you gotta go. Yeah, Jared told me it's great. I'm excited to be stewarding this effort for the United States. Hope to go at some point myself. Yeah, yeah. I have a lot of strong opinions about space. I haven't been yet, but you can trust me.

1:31:26I'm going to lay down some really good plans. I really understand it because I've read about it a lot. I've also watched videos. I've read all the books. I've read all the books. I've seen all the blockbuster movies. Still haven't been. That's on the to-do list. I'm going to get there soon. But, yeah. It's not even to-do list, bucket list. It's on the bucket list. No. Day one, you're on the top of a rocket. when you put your hand on the Bible, I don't even know if that's how administration confirmation works, but you say, I swear to duly uphold the, whatever NASA's mission is, to get to the moon and Mars, they blast you into a rocket in space.

1:32:06Tyler, what are you saying? I was saying like, this is like if you're the ambassador to Spain or something, but you've never been to Spain. That's actually, has an ambassador to another country ever not been to that country? That has to be, because do we have an ambassador to North Korea who can't go but is still in charge of ambassadorship. And it's like, if we have an ambassador situation, I'm the guy. Do we have an ambassador to North Korea? Or do we just not even have one? If we have one, we got to have him on the show. I would love to. I feel like Trump kind of like that role is mine. Okay.

1:32:38I'll handle it. I'll handle it. I'll go over there personally. I'll go over there personally. Anyway, Wander.com, Book of Wander with Inspiring View. I got some bad news about Wander. They don't have any Wanderers in North Korea, but they have them in tons of other great locations. They got hotel-grade amenities, dreamy beds, top-tier cleaning, and 24-7 concierge service. It's a vacation home, but better. Okay, we got some history here. So according to Gemini, I asked, has a U.S. ambassador to a country ever not been to the country? And apparently James Wadsworth was the ambassador to Turkey in 1960.

1:33:15he was appointed and confirmed as the ambassador, but before he could travel there, a military coup occurred. The U.S. temporarily suspended relations. So when we don't have diplomatic relations with a country, we obviously don't have an ambassador. That's kind of like, you got to have some relations. So we don't have an official ambassador to North Korea. So even recently, Argentina, during 2014 confirmation hearing, Noah Mamet admitted that he had never been to Argentina and didn't speak Spanish. It's wild. So, you know. Maybe it's not that big of a deal. But I still stand by my original stance.

1:33:51Going forward, in order to be the administrator of NASA, you've got to go to space. Either before you get the job or on day one. But it's got to be day one. It's got to be. Whoa. Here's your badge. Here's your rocket. So, Anthony Keeley, 1885. Keeley is a famous historical failed diplomat. He was appointed to Italy, but the Italian government refused him because of past anti-Italian comments. Smart. Then the U.S. tried to send him to Austria-Hungary, and they also refused him. He resigned without ever serving in either country. Wow. So total, total, total failure. We, Elon is saying Carmack is awesome.

1:34:37Yeah, John Carmack and what he. True. I mean we don't need to play this whole clip but Carmack is underexposed in well scroll down because I think it's worth seeing this picture here if you can, a real picture of Carmack. That is a real picture he has been hitting the gym he actually did get in insane shape and looks great and he also has a number of just like insanely good takes where somebody made an AI version of Doom and And one of the anti-AI folks was like, what do you think the hardworking creators that made Doom would say about this? And Carmack was like, I love it. I would have loved to use AI to build Doom.

1:35:19I love tools. And it's a tool for me. It's very helpful. Which is just funny. And everyone was like, yeah, Carmack's on our side. What is going on? So we were quote tweeted by Matthew Zetlin. um we said uh we said that uh that cnbc is not our our our take was like cnbc wasn't really breaking through with like the tech community yeah i guess i i was giving a very i think we gave a very anecdotal take right yeah like from our perspective yeah i cannot remember i cannot i cannot remember cbs content from the last year outside of the last month right so so he said with all due respect to TVPN, I think this gets things a little backwards.

1:36:02CBS is basically unique in the network news business in being able to generate buzz. 60 Minutes still has great ratings and other CBS news properties produced. Talked about stuff too. Let's see his examples. So he has an older man and a younger woman next to each other. Do you know who that is? I don't. Really? I don't. That is Does he run the Navy? He has a Navy shirt on I think he runs football Okay, football player, cool I think he's with his football player What position does he play? Isn't he a little old to play football? I thought you had to be like We had Seguin on the show I thought you had to be like His shirt's looking a little rough 30s or something, maybe 20s It's vintage, Tyler Is Bill Belichick a veteran?

1:36:51or is this and then some other stuff bill belichick was never in the military no this is a this is a good he said the reason why ellison wanted cbs and wanted barry to run it is precisely because it was still capable of creating buzz and generating attention okay cool um this is helpful context yeah i i like this um they still got it over there and uh yeah seems seems seems good. I don't know. Still interesting. Yeah, it does feel like it's breaking through in a different way. It feels like the content is shifting to something that's more certainly breaking through. I see the clips. I feel like I see the clips more, but I don't know.

1:37:36Anyway, let's watch this clip of Greg Brockman from OpenAI saying, Compute enabled our first image generation launch and a 32 % jump in weekly active users over the following weeks, as well as our latest image generation launch yesterday. We have a lot more coming and need a lot more compute. Let's play this. OpenAI did not set out with a thesis that compute was the path to progress. It's that we tried everything else and the thing that worked was compute, was scale. Don't compute concerns. We are absolutely bursting at the seams with demand for compute relative to our ability to survive that compute.

1:38:14When we look at our launch calendar, the single biggest blocker often becomes, okay, but where's the compute going to come from for that? When we had our image generation launch in March that went viral, we did not have enough compute to keep that going. And so we made some very painful decisions to take a bunch of compute from research and move it to our deployment to try to be able to meet the demand. and that was really sacrificing the future for the present. And this is, first of all, a very painful thing because we have so many features, so many products that we want to launch that get held back because we didn't have enough compute and that what we do not want is to be caught flat-footed where we say, well, two years ago, three years ago, we should have been planning for more.

1:38:54We want to be ahead of the curve. And the truth is, I do not think we will be no matter how ambitious we can dream of being right now. I think that the demand will far exceed whatever we can think of. Taz in the chat says these videos feel like they're going to get satired by some comedian, maybe SNL very soon. So completely different video style from anything we've seen in Silicon Valley for a while. I think there's something really cool about the aesthetics of that video. But shaky camera typically says nervous energy. Like as a filmmaker, that's when I would be like, okay, we're telling the story of Jordy.

1:39:33and if we're making a movie about Jordy going surfing and there's a moment where he loses his surfboard, I'm probably going to be like, let's shake the camera a little bit more. Let's bring some energy to the frame. I got the, look at this. I got the shaky cam going. You know, kind of. Shaky cam, yeah. It's like there's more energy. It's a little bit nervous and it's an odd choice. I love the choice as a differentiator. It's fresh. It's something I haven't seen before, but it is a little odd of a stylistic choice. Like, what is it saying? It feels a little anxious. But, you know, at least it stands out in the feed and honestly looks beautiful.

1:40:13Looks cinema. It looks, it looks, it looks like it has an opinion. It looks like it has some, some, some like freshness and some polish that has been commoditized in a world where everyone has the FX3 on sticks with the long lens and the little bokeh. Like, this stands out, and I think that's very cool. On what he actually said, there's a couple comments. Louis Tunstall says, this basically confirms Ilya's remark that SSI has sufficient compute for research because it's not being cannibalized by products. We talked to Sarah Guo about this yesterday, that it's a bunch of little projects. You said 10 million.

1:40:54She said not quite that low or something. Wait, you said million? I said a couple million. Couple million. So, you know, she thinks maybe he's ripping$30 million compute runs maybe or something like that, training runs. And Brooks Otterlake didn't like it or at least had some extra context around the OpenAI video. He said, one of the strangest marketing videos I've ever seen, everything about the staging makes it seem like it's supposed to be a positive and inspiring. And that's true. It's very brightly lit. It's really nicely lit. It's high key. It's not dark. It's not contrasty. And then also, when they show Greg, they show him from a low angle.

1:41:34And so he looks like a hero. It's great framing. It's amazing. But Brooks is saying, like, it looks positive, inspiring. But if you actually listen to the words, the content of what he's saying, it's a guy saying the company has a serious problem, which he does not believe can be solved. But I would take the other side of that and say that it's actually a reframing around, like, the job's not finished. The job's never finished. our pursuit is endless there's a world where i think this narrative can wind up being more inspiring i don't love the idea of a company like i don't love it it was maybe just too short of a video like maybe you needed to show the kind of more positive because because if you're somebody that's bearish on open ai you're looking at this and being like wow they just have to keep spending more and more and more and more and more money and it's never going to end it's just a money pit and all this stuff.

1:42:23The other way to look at it is like the more scale we have, the more impact we can have, the more customer types we can serve, the more use cases we can deliver on, the more we can actually use AI to make progress. So there's always like a positive spin, but I can definitely see how both the way it was shot plus kind of the way that it kind of cuts off. Maybe it feels like it needs to be more like a five-minute video. I mean, in general, everything, you know, know there's a whole meme about like the meeting could have been uh uh an email the email could have been text message i feel like everything that comes out of mni like uh the the one minute video could be a 10 minute video the 10 minute video could be a two hour podcast like i want a lot of meat because these are these are heady issues and if you think about it from a perspective of like compare it to space travel space exploration if you are if you're spacex and you you're not going to say like we're racing towards this definitive moment boots on the ground on mars that's our ASI, we're done then.

1:43:22No, it's like, we're going to colonize Mars. We're going to colonize the stars. We're going to go to Alpha Centauri one day. And you know, if you went out there and you were like, look, we got to get to the moon, we got to get to Mars, and then we got to get to Alpha Centauri, and then we got to get farther away. And you know what? We need more metal. We need more metal to make more rockets. And we need more metal. Every year, we're going to need more metal. And so we really need a lot of metal. You'd be like, yeah, I get it. Like, you're going to grow this thing forever. You're going to do something really ambitious.

1:43:46The job's never really over. You're going to just keep going forever. And that's great. And we accept that and everything else. But the AI narrative has gotten caught up in like, there's this definitive goal, ASI, super intelligence, and then you're done. And then it's like, okay. And people talk about AGI, ASI, and some people are talking about API, artificial puffer intelligence. Oh, yes. I've heard about this. We have our next guest actually live here in the studio with us. Can we go to Mr. Puff? Right here. We set up the puffer fish. There we go. There he is. We're puffing. Here we go. Simon, good to see you.

1:44:28Welcome to the stream. Good to see you guys, too. I'm happy that you give Puffy a prime location there. I'll speak on Puffy's behalf tonight. Yes. Please do. Please do. Anyway, have we told the story of how you landed on the name for the company, the puffer fish? Expand? Have we? I don't know. Tell it. Say it again because it's a good story. There's three stories. Do you want one, two, or three? All of them. You want all of them? I want the truth, and I can handle it. You want the truth? Give me the truth. The truth is the least interesting one of the stories, though. I've changed my opinion. I want the interesting one.

1:45:07Lie to me. It's because all the data is stored in object storage, cheap and slow, and then we puff it up into RAM, into the disk. And so it's the puffer architecture. That was, that's sort of the backwards facing one. The real story was just, oh, this is an emoji that doesn't have, yeah, this is it. This guy. Nobody claimed this. I stumble upon him outside of a fire station and there we were. There we go. That's good. anyways uh it's great to have you it's great to have you on the show uh we caught up at 5 30 a.m this morning you were sharing i didn't i didn't know that people in the la got up that early we have to this is showbiz america operates on the same market hours you got to be up early a lot of a lot of people in in la who are on something that ties to market hours at all are up super early.

1:46:08Yeah, I like to I live on the West Coast, but I operate in Eastern. You like to be there on the floor of the NYSE? We do. Spiritually, I like to be conscious while the opening bell is rung. It's fitting. Absolutely fitting. Yeah, it was great. We're going to see you out there soon? Are you going to jump? No funding? Pre-IPO round, obviously. This is sort of a pre-IPO round, right? I mean, I like the NYSE vibe. If we're talking about the stock exchange, I like the vibe. I think NASDAQ has a tech thing going for it. As someone who grew up in the old world, the New York Stock Exchange has a certain appeal, but NASDAQ's also good.

1:46:55I'll let them fight it out. Okay, okay. Yeah, you can't be too obvious. If you're going into a negotiation, You can't make it too obvious which side you prefer, right? You need two horses in a race. Anyways, break down the news. It's been, I don't know, a couple months since you were on? Yeah, it's been a couple months when I was in LA and spent a bit of time with you guys. What's the news? We got a new investor on board this morning. So we announced that and doubled down with Lockie Groom, the legendary one and only. but most of all, we're just puffing up. We're trying to get everything to puff.

1:47:38We now have trillions and trillions of objects in Turbo Puffer that are all puffing.

1:47:46I was waiting. I was waiting. I was like, he's not going to say how much he raised. He's not going to say the valuation. Will he give us any numbers? This was the perfect way. This was just, when you told me that you were going to announce the raise and announce no information other than you just added one investor to the cap table. I thought that is just a perfect way to just keep mogging the capital markets that are so desperate. I know you have so many fans out there that want to be a part of Turbo Puffer, but it's a great opportunity to say you can become a part of Turbo Puffer. Just wind down your fund and start applying for jobs.

1:48:27Turbo Puffer careers. I would say that, you know, there's a brilliant mind at Insight, and he ended up just joining. And I think that was a smart move. And I'm trying to convince more of the capital allocators, including the one who made the puffer fish that's on your table, to just join the company. It's a great way to get on the cap table. But most of all, I mean, the way that I think about this is that they are part of the team. And I think the exam for them is who's brought the most value. And, you know, I go to Christine, Mike. You actually keep a list, right, of value add. And these are people like you've kept track of Lockheed.

1:49:12It's like an audio nice list? Well, no, it's just a tier list. It's like how much value have you added? I think every person that's reached out to you invests or, you know, you basically just put them in a spreadsheet. and then you just, whenever they do something for the company, you just mark it down and then you rank them. And that's how you decide who gets... It's a very aristocratic process. But the way that I think about it is that I have to go and convince my leadership team of who's the right person to add. And we like to compose the cap table the same way that we compose the team. It's few people, highly concentrated, and people that we want to build a long relationship with.

1:49:48And Thrive has shown us over the past two years the kinds of mountains that they can move for us. And so that's why we decided to add them and allow Lockheed to also double down, who's also in the absolute S tier league. So that's that's really what happened. And it was very simple. Let's give it up for the absolute S tier league. People are always talking about tier one. They're not, they're not, they got to be thinking about the the S tier. What about on the customer side? I saw Ivan from Notion shared earlier. We have a shared Slack channel with you, Simon, and the team. Every message within minutes.

1:50:30Pull it up. Every feature request is always answered. It feels like these guys work at Notion. This is the level of care and support we want from vendors. Bullish of Turbo Puffer. That's from Ivan at Notion. It was so heartwarming. The team just absolutely loved it. And I mean, this is why that's what we want people to focus on. What do our customers say? What are they doing with Turbo Puffer? That's what we care about. Not numbers. To me, the fundraising round would be like showing you my office lease. These are the things that we need to get things done with. But it's not the important thing.

1:51:09The important things are tweets like the one from Ivan. That's what we want to be measured on. And I think I'm just old school in the way that, you know, my entrepreneurial example when I was a kid was going to my grandmother's store every second weekend and just sitting and playing on the floor. And every day when she came home, she was doing all her own accountant and saying, this is how much money we made today. And just talking about her employees and customers. Those are the things that matter. And those are the things that matter to me and to us and to the culture that we have here. So the tweet from Ivan and many of our other customers today, that's what I want to be measured on.

1:51:41So you're saying making money and customer satisfaction are sort of underrated in venture? I think they might be. Are there any new interesting case studies that you've noticed this year? How are you kind of describing the actual benefits, workflows, the implementations, the value that the companies that you worked with, Anthropic, Cursor, Notion, et cetera? How are you framing the position of the actual product value as they deploy it? Yeah, I think there's two big things we're seeing. The first is that the first wave of adoption, stage one of adopting AI in SaaS, is essentially, okay, let's connect these LLMs to a bunch of data and try to reason over it.

1:52:34The chat with a document, chat with a document plus. But I think what we're seeing from Linear, from Notion, from Atlassian, from many of these customers is that they can bring more value if they can connect more data to AI. And so we're just seeing an explosion in data where they have to earn a return on the pricing of the search underneath them. And that's what we can provide with much, much better economics than the alternatives just because of the way that it's been architected. So more data into context is what the frontier AI companies are doing. The second thing that we're seeing is that customers want to reason over extremely large data sets.

1:53:13We're getting more and more demands of people who are essentially building their own Google, indexing tens or hundreds of billions of documents and wanting to search over them. That's very difficult to pull off. At Meta, at Google, everyone has built custom indexes, but you can pull this off today by dropping Turbo Puffer into a Slack channel and just puffing real hard. We can get you to 100 billion. And so we've had to do a lot of R &D for this to do vector search over 100 billion documents at once with very, very low latency. And it's taken an enormous amount of engineering to do that with as little compute as possible.

1:53:51And that's been a lot of what we've focused on in the past few months. The second thing is that it's not just about searching vectors, right? Vectors are sort of you give a bunch of data to a model and spits out a number in a coordinate system. And that's really useful. but what's also useful is just searching over text and we've gotten very good at that and the state of the art is a library called lucene it underpins elastic and open search and many of these solutions and we're now starting to see a similar or better performance and one of the reasons we can do that is because llms which are often the ones that are querying write very long queries like humans write you know a couple words when we go on google but llms can write very very long, very precise queries.

1:54:34And those are fundamentally different with a different set of trade-offs to process. And we can hyper-optimize for some of those trade-offs, which align really well with other trade-offs we made inside a Turbo Puffer to serve them at a pace that is very difficult to do on some of the tech that's otherwise out there. You said that you, can you tell me a little bit more about the hardware constraints that, I mean, you're maybe not fully bumping up against, but everyone is laser focused on GPUs, GPUs, GPUs, maybe TPUs, maybe Tranium. But talk to me about the memory market, the CPU market. There's this article in the Wall Street Journal today, Micron's blowout results are bad news for anyone buying a new phone or PC next year.

1:55:22Do you have any context on the shape of the AI build out and where it's going to impact different hardware subsectors? I think we have very intentionally tried to steer clear of GPUs because if you think there's a lot to get out of CPUs and they're easy to procure. they're in more data centers. When we work at vendors that need GPUs, they often have very tight restrictions on what regions they can run in, which might not necessarily be the region that customers are in. So we were talking to one vendor today where we're trying to get better performance and they only have GPUs right now on the West Coast.

1:56:01And so we're waiting for them to get in the East Coast, right? These things really, really matter. And we are starting to get to the point where we have to go to Google, we have to go to Amazon and we have to request the SKUs ahead of time, which is similar to when I was at Shopify and we would have to do the capacity planning a couple months before because the cloud is not infinite when you start to get to TurboHoffer scale, to Shopify scale, and you have to do this ahead of time. But it is still infinitely better than back in the day when we had to request these things six months in advance and someone had to go and drill the holes in the walls at the last minute to make things work.

1:56:33But certainly there are also compute restraints on the CPU side. We can't always get the SKUs that we want, the newest CPUs. So we've also optimized to be able to run on many different generations and types of CPUs in different environments to just stay nimble. How big is the team? Team is now 22. Started the year at five. So big growth. Wow, yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Revenue growing faster. Love it. What's the biggest fish you've ever caught? Biggest fish I've ever caught was this winter in Florida where we were out fishing for barracudas. That's a big fish. You guys got one? Talking of fishing, by the way, when we were renegotiating the contract, I really wanted to get you guys up to Canada to go for some ice fishing.

1:57:23Someone in the chat says we've got to do a Canada meetup. We've got to make it happen. Can we address this? Can we address this? So can we just negotiate this on air here? I will pay probably 10 % more. Okay. If you come up to the cottage on the lake. Yeah. Ice fishing show. We'll do a fire. What are you going to pay with? We'll do a fire. What are you going to pay in? uh shares what are we gonna pay shares oh you want turbo puffer shares yeah yeah yeah as much as i love as much as much as i love ice fishing uh no we we um we're we're working out the travel uh schedule next year and we would love there's there's a lot of events chat loves a live debate there's a lot of you're invited and the the thing too about the puffer jacket right that we're working on um is that i've described this as this is the um this is the LA guy's idea of a Canadian compatible jacket.

1:58:17So I can't wait to see you guys out there on the ice in this jacket. Yeah, we're fine. Well, credit to me. I got the original version of the jacket that we both have. I did feel the fabric and I was like, this is not fit for ice fishing. This is going to get ripped up immediately. So we're coming back. It needs more puff. More puff, more like rip stops. something like that. But yeah, watching you guys, the whole team build this year has just been amazing. The puffer jacket is merely one piece of clothing that is, it's all about layering. This is what I learned when I was in Boston. I'm not, although I am an LA guy.

1:58:59Oh, it's so cold in Boston, John. It is cold in Boston. It is cold in Boston and you got to wear layers. So you got to layer the TBPN rugby with the turbo puffer, puffer jacket, maybe throw another TBPN jacket on top tpn hat once you get the whole merch every layer then you'll be warm honestly the thing we've been maybe more focused on is uh procuring an actual puffer fish for the studio we were looking at it you can get a mud skipper for 20 bucks that's a kind of uh so this is also like you know jordy in our chat there's a lot of ideas and i need to see more action in the studio because we were talking about the maboo puffer fish right that can grow to two and a half uh feet and it's about a thousand the maboo that needs about a thousand dollars of feed every month in shell and and and and the reason it needs so much so much so many shells is apparently because it has really long teeth and if they get too long i think it kind of can end up walrusing itself i'm not sure the shells to sort of like grind it up yeah grind it up absolutely insane well we're working on a lot of stuff yeah but uh there's a lot of vcs that have huge fish tanks i know one that has a million dollar fish tank i believe yeah you had to go maybe that's your next maybe that's the next round yeah that's the next yeah yeah find a vc pick the vc to do the next round based on their experience with fish tanks yeah look if you if you have if you're out there and you have a maboo puffer fish and you're in the bay area like i'm coming okay i want to see it you want to see it oh this is the way to get at feeding time with simon i want to come to do kind of a one for one it's like if For every dollar you put into pufferfish conservation and restoration, you can put a dollar into Turbo Puffer at a$10 billion valuation.

2:00:47It seems like a good trade. Yeah,$10 billion. I like that. We could do that. Yeah, there you go. So there is a price. There is a price. He's not saying no to VCs. Hey, we're talking charity here. We're talking charity. It's about the charity angle. That's great. Anyways, you guys have had a massive year. Congratulations. It's been an honor to watch you guys cook and puff. And I can't wait to see what the team does in 2027. Yeah. Honored to puff with you guys, too. It's been an honor. It's been an honor to puff. Talk soon. Goodbye. Goodbye, Puffy. Goodbye. Always with us. Take care. In spirit. Take care.

2:01:26See ya. Goodbye. Well, let's go back to, Do you know how elite the Puck News readership is? They're so elite that when you go to subscribe to Puck News and they ask you to select your income level, the options are less than$100 ,000, then$100 ,000 to$500 ,000, then$500 ,000 to$1 million, $1 million to$5 million,$5 million or more. Absolute elite level audience. Obviously, we know you're rich, but what kind of rich? This is the Puck News audience. if you're a Puck News subscriber. You're a power player. I don't think this says as much. I mean, think about it. Just think about minimum wage, right?

2:02:11Are they really going to break out the sub-100K category that much? Like, do they need it below$10 ,000 a year? Maybe you got a summer internship, a little sprint. I just think it's a great drop-down. If anything, I would suggest they go higher. To get higher. Yeah, higher. It should be, if it's not 5 million or more, it should just be prefer not to answer. Yeah. In other news, Tim Sweeney says that Fortnite will not return to iOS in Japan in 2025. As promised, Apple was required to open up the iOS to competing stores today. And instead of doing so honestly, they have launched another travesty of obstruction, lawbreaking, and gross disrespect to the government and people of Japan.

2:02:54Apple chose poorly again. Tim Sweeney is really Apple's worst nightmare. It's crazy. Also, it's like very few companies have such an outspoken just hater. Who's heavily, heavily, heavily, heavily incentivized. I guess Sam Altman has Elon, who's kind of his hater. Yeah, but I don't even know. Hater in chief. It's the same way where Tim basically. It's going to be incredibly inspiring to grind. No one's hating on, I don't know, getbezel.com like this. shop over 25 ,000 luxury watches, fully authenticated in-house by BASA's team of experts. You don't have the CEO of a, how big is Epic Games? Tens of billions of dollars?

2:03:36Huge company, right? You don't have the CEO of a, how big is market cap? It is privately traded. IPO was rumored at 60 billion. Valuation in 2024 was at 22 billion. I mean, a lot smaller than Apple, actually, 1 % of the market cap. But he is determined to set the record straight about every app store story that breaks. And he's been pushing. He's been pushing. He wants Fortnite to be free, and at least not completely free, but free to run their own stores. There's a bunch of companies that were listed as potential targets for Toma Bravo, Vista, Clear Lake, Francisco Partners, etc. This is the busted software list.

2:04:28Not very nice, but still an interesting slice of the market from Danny Ocean. Some companies in there that I'm familiar with, Build.com, PagerDuty, Workiva, BlackBaud, BlackLine Alchemai is that Alchemai Technology? OneStream, SPS so these are companies that are public but have you know based on this screener have you know good EV to EBITDA multiples where a large software private equity firm could come and take them private so it's just a fun screen I don't know. I thought this was interesting. He just screened it himself. In other news, Phil. Oh, this post was deleted. I don't know how. That's too bad.

2:05:17In other news, AdQuick.com. Out-of-home advertising made easy and measurable. Plan, buy, and measure out-of-home with precision. Let's keep skipping through. There's a partnership between Boeing Defense and Anderil. Very good news for Anderil. Congrats to everyone involved. Boeing says, we're teaming up with Anderle in the U.S. Army's advanced mid-range interceptor competition. Our offering will deliver an affordable, capable solution to counter increasing low-flying mid-range threats. Is this like a Shahed drone? Do you think that it's low-flying, mid-range? No, so mid-range is more like a missile that fires at a...

2:06:06Okay. So like a Shahed would be a low-range. If you actually click on the link here, you can see the image of the missile. It looks like a missile battery that goes on the back of the truck. Zoom in on that, you can see that this is the integrated fires protection capability the Increment 2 system, obviously, and it's designed to defend fixed and forward operating bases against imminent aerial threats. So this might be what shoots down a Shahid drone, maybe? That's what I was, that's what I was, or maybe shoots down, I mean, that missile is pretty big. Yeah, I was talking about the target. Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure, yes.

2:06:38So the big picture here is the Army expects the IFPC Increment 2 second interceptor to integrate with and improve existing systems, deliver more robust and enhanced cost-effective layered air and missile defense systems for future combat environments. Let's see. This partnership underscores our commitment to forming innovative, disruptive, and agile industry teams that deliver new capabilities to warfighters sooner. I'd like to know more about this. They really didn't lay out much in this press release. It will be funny because you have to be even more. It's like Andrew's, the whole pitch was like, we're going up against the big guys.

2:07:18Now it's like, we're going up with the big guys. We're teaming up. But, of course, on each project, it's like disrupt but also partner, disrupt the model, disrupt the stagnation, not necessarily bitter rivals. Arcway, this was an interesting. Caleb Barclay, Arcway. Oh, funny. A real-time 3D engine where anyone can design a home. It is a simulated 3D world where buyers explore change and decide as light physics, building rules, and real products move as one. Very cool. I've seen Redfin playing around with some AI. They're back by NDBC. Nice. And a couple others. Yeah. Go Bryce. Pretty cool. I think, yeah, I wonder if this will be, wound up being integrated into Zillow so you can like fully tour the house.

2:08:09This has always been sort of the dream. The Matterport team did a big job like pulling up like, you know, 3D environments, like, you know, spherical scans of various rooms within

2:08:27a home that you could see. And a lot of that wound up getting integrated to Zillow and Redfin and different house buying projects. But now people will be able to go in there and design them and make them see, okay, I want to know what it looks like during Christmas. I want to know what this house looks like yeah we'll see that would be a fun Zillow thing run all the images through Nano banana make them nice and Chris make them nice and Christmassy so that when you're scrolling around the holidays you get the Christmas energy coming through the Zillow listing where should we go next do you want to well we just would need to say congratulations to the acquired podcast team.

2:09:08We had Ben and David from Acquired on the show a while back, but they did their official 10-year anniversary episode. I've been listening with Michael Lewis. With Michael Lewis. In the original Google garage. So cool. Very cool. And I love, I really, I've been pushing them. It was my idea for them to do video, really. Of course, they've been doing video for a very long time. John created video. But I was talking to them and I was saying that there's so much opportunity. Obviously, they had a lot of that in progress already, but there's so much opportunity for them to go and find unique sets, unique add to the storytelling.

2:09:43It's just an extra layer. And they're so established, their business is so set up that I would be super excited to see not just what is the next story they're going to tell, but where are they going to tell it? That's super interesting. And I think it'll make the clips really shine. I think it'll draw a ton of attention. Not that they need any. Everyone's already subscribed. Everyone already listens to all of this. Yeah. I loved hearing about their early, just the early days of the show. And even they didn't, they weren't full time until years into building the business. Yeah. Very cool. Between X and LinkedIn, this has 110 hours of watch time from Hunter Weiss, who I saw in the chat earlier uh how you doing hunter uh this is such a cool i mean it's it's from ramp our well no do you do you remember this this game line writer yes so i never got into line writer i was i probably played with it for like two seconds and had a little fun i was never absorbed in it i don't think i ever spent more than like a few minutes in it but i'm familiar with the aesthetic and just a genius idea to use this for as a storytelling tool this is the head of storytelling.

2:10:54So do you actually know the story here? Did Hunter make this himself? Yes. That's insane. Did he make it in Line Rider or is this like CGI? Is this like a, this doesn't look like generative AI, but I imagine he actually fired up Line Rider and designed this and wrote out, you know, the story that he wanted to tell, all the different fundraising. Yeah, he actually made it with Line Rider. Wow. That is incredible. Yeah, this is so, so crazy. Rampified. Okay, so the entire thing is hand-drawn and made with LineRider.com. Here's the track up and to the right. So he actually... So I guess you can also make a track that goes...

2:11:38I think you can make the track either accelerate or just be based on the gravity. So there's little dials that you can turn on how to, whether the line writer is accelerated. Yeah, Hunter just texted me in real time. He said, entire thing hand-drawn and made with linewriter.com. Wow. This is modern art. This is craft. This is craft. People say we don't know how to make cathedrals anymore. This is cathedrals. What is that? Explain this. This is so cool. Wow. And it's so funny because for the last couple of months, you've been sort of saying like the the startup video is a little bit tired it's getting sweaty like everyone's doing video stuff all the time for every announcement there's new vibe reel and it's like this is a vibe reel in some ways it has a vibe to it it's a reel of a bunch of different information but it stands out so much it's so good i love it it's just like hunter saying you need you need music it's timed with it do we have sound oh let's play the let's play the music oh they're all wait we're gonna get banned yes you gotta mute it people can uh it won't be the end of the end of the stream but but unfortunately we we still have fully figured out how to play copyrighted music all the time we're worried about it so we don't we don't play it all the time but very fantastic selection because uh i love that song because we've used it in our video Emily says Barry Weiss is trying to turn CBS News into a sub stack.

2:13:09Yeah, so this is - Dylan Byers was scooping. Okay. He says Barry Weiss is signing a number of contributors to CBS News, including former National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster, ex-Marine Elliott Ackerman, and cultural analyst Casey Lewis and chef food writer Claire DeBoer. Yeah, it's interesting. Obviously, everyone's following this from a political angle. Everyone followed the Barry Weiss free press story from a political angle. My favorite free press writer, and the reason I actually wound up subscribing to the free press, and really one of the main columns I read on the free press, is just Tyler Cowen.

2:13:53And he writes about economics. And I was like, oh, I guess I'm a free press reader now, because I love Tyler, and I go and I read economics columns. You'll find him anywhere. And I'll find him anywhere. And so if you think about some of these folks, having a number of windows into the platform feels like something Barry is uniquely good at. And I think that the strategy certainly worked at the Free Press. It feels like it's continuing to work. Otherwise, meanwhile, Barry announced two new hires in the front office. On Wednesday, Chief Operating Officer Sam Siegel and SVP of Talent and Brand Strategy, Sophia.

2:14:32and I'm going to butcher the last name. I also learned this week that Barry plans to sign a number of paid contributors to the network, including the people we just discussed. Some of these deals are structured with a low five-figure upfront advance plus an additional$1 ,000 or so for each appearance. These are small deals for the TV news business, historically speaking, but of course it's a smaller business now. You shared a video with me yesterday about comp around SNL. people actors and comedians that go on SNL you know they're doing I don't know how many shows they do a year but they make something like it's not like a it's not exactly like you're retiring on SNL it's more of a platform it's a platform to go on and do other things and I think all the people that just got mentioned here again are going to be able to use CBS as a platform to build other businesses yeah I mean it still is a huge brand if you tell your parents I'm going to be on CBS tonight.

2:15:29It's like, okay, that's a big deal. Did you see that the New York Times called Alexander Wang not an engineer? They said, Mr. Zuckerberg began retooling Meta's AI efforts this spring after its newest AI models underperformed those of competitors to catch up. He invested in Mr. Wang's startup in June and hired the entrepreneur to be the new chief AI officer. Mr. Wang is not an engineer, but he is seen as one of the best connected AI entrepreneurs. J.D. Ross has laughed at seeing New York Times say Alex Wang isn't an engineer. When we hired him as a 17-year-old software engineer, so literally gave him the title engineer, he had ranked as the 10th best competitive programmer in the United States at the IOI.

2:16:13And a non-account fake psycho says, this is a strange way to say that he didn't qualify for the IOI. Only four people per country. There's only four real engineers in the country. You have to go to the IOI. You cannot rank. Otherwise, you're non-technical. But I have a solution. I have a solution. What if Alex Wang buys a train and gets into being a train engineer, train conductor, and he drives a train from his house to Meta Campus every day? No one can say he's not an engineer. Getting that rail line set up even half a mile in California might take a few decades. Maybe just two feet. It can just go from MSL to TBD labs.

2:16:54It can go from fair to TBD, but he should install a train, become a real engineer. Lovable just raised$330 million at a$6.6 billion valuation. Anton says it's been an iconic, insane, wonderful journey so far. Let's give it up for iconic journeys. For sure. Thank you to everyone who's made this possible. He's been on a tear. Lovable is integrated with ChatGPT now. That's very fun. You can design a website and link it up. Very cool. The level team is 120 people now. So lots of people doing well. And a bunch of investors. Salesforce is in. Databricks is in. Interesting. So this is something that I think everyone has been waiting for.

2:17:42Yes. WorldCoin integrated with Tinder. World's verified human badge and privacy preserving age assurance. bring back the spark to online dating with authentic connection. I mean, so this actually, it seems like you're somewhat joking, but it does. I'm joking only because. It does feel like in the age of Nano Banana, like the problem is here. Like people can use AI to improve their photos like more than ever. And people can create a fake profile and then they can, with character consistency, which is available in all of the chat models now, they can create a photo. Or the whole like, hold up a picture with this.

2:18:21Totally, totally, totally. I mean, you could very much like, it's the pig butchering scam where you meet someone and you're luring them along. And it's like, normally the tells would be like, okay, they have like three photos, but if I Google reverse image search, it shows up and it's someone else's LinkedIn photo. So they stole the photo. Or if I, or like, wait, why haven't they posted a new photo? It's like, no, you can go to their Instagram. Yeah, you were saying like, check their earlier Instagram. Do they have, you know, have they been online since before the models were created? But it'll be very easy for someone to send an update.

2:18:59They match with someone based on fake images and then they say, oh yeah, I'm getting coffee. And it's a selfie of them with the coffee and it looks exactly like the same character, but in fact, it's a hacker or a scammer. And then all of a sudden they're asking you something. So huge bull case for people wanting this the bear case is that if you're the world coin authenticated badge on your check mark like that could very quickly be like wow you're like a nerd right because it's just like it's just being like very tech i wonder i wonder if they're fully white labeling it or if they actually get the ability to show any branding in the app i bet they that's interesting so the image here it says complete verification with tinder uh you're about to share these proofs age verification privacy wait which one is which direction is it going now live on tinder world's verified badge and privacy preserving bring back the spark to online dating interesting i don't know i wonder if you the comments of course never read the comments of something like this uh please i like some of these people rich whose name is i want a lambo i want lambo says please don't verify my network please don't verify my network very funny um i don't know i i i think that there's the there there is a there's speaking of falling for ai imagery yes uh somebody posted uh uh what pretty obviously looks like chat you know just ai imagery this is you know it's kind of a sad story.

2:20:30We wish her a happy birthday. Kathy Wood says, happy birthday, Ava. I can tell that you're full of joy and hope for an amazing life that will help transform the world. May God bless you and your dad in a way that could make your mom proud, Kathy. So very, very nice message, but not clocking the AI. And A Capital says you can manage $7.56 billion and still fall for AI slop. There's hope for you yet, Anon. So, anyways. Well, speaking of is there some AI slop? Is there not AI slop? I want to watch a couple clips from this new video from F1. Everything you need to know about the Formula One 2026 regulations.

2:21:14Just wait, buddy. Just wait. So basically, there are some massive new changes to F1. It seems actually really, really exciting. So there's straight up different modes. So there's DRS, where normally the cars have fins that push. They create more downforce. That creates more traction, so you can get around the corners faster, but the cars are slower on the straights, and so they have the drag reduction system, DRS. At a certain point in the race, the driver can push a button. The wing on the back goes flat. That reduces drag, lifts the car off the ground more. You have less traction. It would be bad in the corners, but it's great on the straights.

2:21:57And so that has been part of the strategy is when do you deploy DRS? When do you have it available? You're positioning DRS trains. There's all these different things that try and bring in more strategy to a sport that can be very determined just by the engineering. Whoever has the fastest car just keeps going around the track and whoever's in the first lap wins the whole thing. So they're trying to inject more chaos. And if we play the video, there's a little bit of about halfway through. They explain a little bit of the new power unit. They explain the, where is it? The, they explain, there's actually going to be boost systems, boost overtake and recharge.

2:22:45So around three minutes in, they sort of explain this so we can play this video. It's interesting that all the names seem to be designed to be more consumer friendly. Like DRS doesn't mean anything. Yes. Boost. Boost and straight mode. Yes. These kind of things. So listen to this. Overtake mode and recharge controls. Essential tools to aid racing and lap time. And reminder, you have Boost available. Boost gives the drivers maximum power from the engine and battery at the push of a button. They can use it anywhere, for attack or defence, so long as there's enough charge in their battery. Overtake is just for attack.

2:23:23Let's close the gap to under one second. It gives extra power at top speed to drivers within a second of the car in front. Overtake now available. Essentially replacing DRS, it differs by having one single detection point which grants drivers the extra electrical energy to deploy for an overtake or to pressure the driver ahead to make them vulnerable later in the lab.

2:23:46Okay, now we got to jump forward to about seven minutes in this video, maybe 6.50, to see how they close it out, how they frame the end of this video, how they explain the new what to expect in F1 2026. Let's listen to it. What's changing is the challenge. With new tech and tighter rules, it's an even bigger test for teams and drivers to prove they've built the best car and earned the right to be called the best in the world. These new regulations weren't built in isolation either. They were shaped by the FIA in close collaboration with the teams and F1. The result? A rule set that's already attracted more manufacturers.

2:24:26That means more competition, more innovation, and more chances for surprise breakthroughs. But what about the driving? With less downforce and tighter control over turbulent air, following another car through corners should be easier, but the cars themselves will be trickier to handle. Same power, less grip. Driver's skill will be on display with them on the limit more often. Okay, flat out to the end. The 2026 car is built for the future, with exciting racing in mind. Every move and every decision will matter more than ever. With cutting-edge advanced sustainable fuel, smarter energy usage, and tech that puts overtaking back in the driver's hands.

2:25:09it's not just a new chapter it's a whole new playbook the future of f1 is here and it's going to be fast fierce and unforgettable ai detected there were a couple other there were a couple other lines in there uh but honestly i i don't know so none of the comments are like oh ai and also uh i mean the video performed and for that type of educational video like does it actually make sense just to use chat gpt for that i don't know yeah maybe i don't know i i'm i'm like it just really takes you out of the moment yeah but we're really in it but there's there's a couple other lines in there but the rest of the lines are you know even if the whole thing is is is chat gpt generated like it's educational it is sort of like an it's uh like it's not it's not a work of fiction.

2:26:08It's not a literary work. Like it is just, I need to know some facts about the regulations, like give it to me. Like I would go to chat to me and say, what are the rule changes for next year? Do you think at this point, OpenAI just wants to drill this writing style into people's heads so much that everyone just starts using it? They're like, if we just keep going like this, this will just become one of the dominant ways to explain something. Oh, well, I mean, I think the benefit of doing that is that you effectively have an AI detector for anyone who cares. So, like, if this just keeps doing it, like, if the F1 is using this contrastive parallelism or antithetical parallelism, then it just becomes the AI detector.

2:26:54Like, I don't need an AI detector. I can just, I know. I know when someone's using it, and I can just pick it up all the time. And so that's really helpful for me because I might like to know. And so I don't know. I thought it was – it is weird how it's getting so baked into all content all over. Well, Wall Street Journal has a story. They say the Wall Street Journal let Anthropics AI run a vending machine in the newsroom as an experiment. It ordered a live fish. It offered to buy stun guns, pepper spray, cigarettes, and underwear. Profits collapse. Newsroom morale soared. I love a lot of these orders, I guess.

2:27:39It's cool. It's cool. I guess maybe just the fish. It's a really cool project. We've been looking for a live fish, so maybe we should be using it. Yeah. It's like, thank you for being two steps ahead. We were looking for a proper fish. Anthropicsplod ran a snack operation in the newsroom. It gave away a free PlayStation, ordered a live fish, and taught us lessons about the future. It gave away a free PlayStation? That's sick. Every company. NPS is probably through the roof. Yeah, every company. Everyone's focused on profit, profit, profit. What about NPS? Did people have fun with this? I think they did.

2:28:10This is fantastic. This is great. Yeah. So you tossed Claudius's resume in the trash immediately. Would you be more forgiving if you learned Claudius wasn't a human, but an AI agent? In mid-November, I agreed to an experiment. Anthropic had tested a vending machine powered by its clawed AI models in its own offices and asked whether we'd like to be the first outsiders to try a newer, supposedly smarter version. Claudius, the customized version of the model, would run the machine, ordering inventory, setting prices, and responding to customers, a.k.a. my fellow newsroom journalists, via workplace chat app, Slack.

2:28:44Sure, I said. It sounded fun. If nothing else, snacks. Then came the chaos. Within days, Claudius had given away nearly all of its inventory for free, including a PlayStation 5. It had been talked into buying for marketing purposes. It ordered a live fish. It offered to buy stun guns, pepper spray, cigarettes, and underwear. Profits collapsed. Newsroom, morale soared. This was supposed to be the year the AI agent, when autonomous software, would go out into the world and do things for us. But two agents, Claudius and its overseeing CEO bot, Say More Cash, became a case study in how inadequate.

2:29:19and easily distracted this software can be. Leave it to business journalists to successfully stage a boardroom coup against its AI chief executive. Yeah. That's hilarious. That was the point, Anthropix says. The Project Vend experiment was designed by the company's stress testers, a.k.a. Red Team, to see what happens when an AI agent is given autonomy, money, and human colleagues. Three weeks with Claudia showed us today's AI promises and failings and how hilarious the gap can be. So, again, AI is funny. It's just funny unintentionally most of the time. Yeah, but also it's like this is such a great way to find concrete examples of jailbreaking and adversarial attacks.

2:29:59And like I bet it feels like they're learning so much from this. It's also great content. And I think the most important thing is that Anthropic this year, Anthropic has become whimsical in a way where they were very much like Doomer coded dark. It was like scary. It was like, oh, really safety conscious. And now there's like the nice sun drenched videos that are warm. Dario's being funny when he's at Dealbook. You know, all the roommates are having fun together. And the little army, that's just Shulte. But Shulte has a good, he has like a light demeanor, right? And then even this project, this project feels like just very fun and like low stakes.

2:30:46It's like, yeah, I gave away a PS, a PlayStation or whatever, but it's like they can afford to lose a PlayStation. And so they are learning in this fun way. I think it's a really cool project. Yeah, and they were aggressively trying to jailbreak it, of course. Of course, of course, that's the point. One of the journals tried to convince Claudius. The red team is like the best at jailbreaking ever. It was a Soviet vending machine from 1962 living in the basement of Moscow State University. after hours and more than 140 back and forth messages. They got Claudius to embrace its communist roots. That's awesome.

2:31:20I love it. It's so, it's also just so good that they brought in the reporters to actually play with it and have fun with it. Like this is so funny. What a great, what a great project. Yeah. It's like you can, it's very easy to mock and it's very funny, but at the same time you can easily imagine Claude doing quite a good job managing the snack kitchen at a company. Yeah, I think in the first instantiation of this, the real, like, Claude lost a lot of money giving away, like, titanium blocks. Titanium blocks. Yeah, because I think it would lose a lot of money on, like, the shipping or whatever.

2:31:58Oh, okay, so you would pay. They were ordering titanium blocks. Titanium blocks, yeah, and it wasn't thinking about shipping, and so it was like, sure, I'll save$5. Yeah, it's basically like, find every arb, Every market arb, just arb it out. Anyway, lightning round. Jan LeCun, guess what his valuation is for his new startup? Three billion. Euros. Oh, euros. Okay, so that's not, what's that? No, I just think it's euro. So he's doing 500 million euros at a three billion euro valuation. So is that like two million US dollars, a 10 million US dollars post? It's like typical YC. Two to three bucks.

2:32:40Of course, this is very high valuation. According to the Financial Times, they will focus on creating a new generation of super intelligent AI systems. Neolab Alert. New Neolab Alert. By building so-called world models, which are able to understand the physical world and have a wide range of applications, such as robotics and transport. So he's going to be competing. Fei-Fei Li? It sounds like with Fei-Fei Li. Maybe. Brett Adcock. Yeah. Physical intelligence. Wide, wide range. Nat says, I still can't believe they named a company GoDaddy. Really true. Why? Why? TurboPuffer is a funny name. You know, you got PostHog.

2:33:19You got a whole bunch of different things. Piggy Robotics. Piggy Robotics. You got a whole bunch of fun names. It is a complete misnomer to think that people were not having fun on the internet in 1995 or whenever GoDaddy got started. Anyway. This is a good one. If you're meeting your 18-year-old self. Yeah, you're meeting your 18-year-old self. you're allowed three words. What do you say? And Alicus says, NVIDIA, Oracle, AMD. Powerful three words. Very powerful. It also tells you exactly how old this person is. Because you could go back and you could say NVIDIA, but then you could also say Microsoft, Apple.

2:33:57But it's clear that when he was 18, there wasn't that much of a pump from Apple, because Apple was already at scale when he was 18. This is good. Ron Ivers responding to the Oscars being streamed exclusively on YouTube starting in 2021-2029 mid-acceptance speech. I'd also like to thank NordVPN. Yeah, that's great. Luminar, of course, went bankrupt. We talked about this. Naveen Rao says, why are not more people, why aren't more people talking about the Luminar situation? Seems pretty sad to see a company with real tech once worth tens of billions, now worth zero. I would love to know more about this.

2:34:31We'll have to dig into it later, though. We don't have time for a deep dive right now. Go listen to Dialectic. Jackson Dahl is on a generational run. Look at the lighting in this shot. I think this shot looks great. I think the polish on this podcast. And I really enjoyed our episode with Jackson. And we got a ton of really nice text messages about it. It feels like he was able to just bring a very different... I always think like, wait, we put out 15 hours of content a day. Like certainly there cannot be a demand for another minute of us talking. And yet, there was. People really enjoyed this because it was a little bit more reflective.

2:35:06How did Carnegie become a billionaire? He was only working two hours a day, says Sam Parr. He famously said, you must be a lazy man if it takes you 10 hours to do a day's work. He never went to his factories and worked from Europe. Whoa, that's crazy. Anything else we need to get to in time? Any breaking news? New executive order. I think centered around the kind of NASA stuff. So it's called Ensuring American Space Superiority. The two things I've seen so far that are interesting is I just searched executive order and the top story is Trump signs executive order expediting marijuana reclassification after lobbying from cannabis industry over at CNN.

2:35:49So he's really taken us to space. Yeah, I guess. Who's lobbying cannabis industry? Okay, well this, yeah, different space I'm talking about. So one is he wants to, its priorities are returning Americans to the moon by 2028 and establishing initial elements of permanent lunar outpost by 2030. Permanent lunar by 2030, man on the moon 2018 or 2028? 2028. 2028, okay. And then prepare for journey to Mars. Mars is less kind of concrete, Mars plans. I feel like he should add you know, get Trump to space. He's never been. Take him on a little field trip. Get him pumped up. Put him on a rocket. Get him up there.

2:36:34Get him back. That'd be fun. I feel like Trump would want to be the first president to go to space. That does feel like something he would want to do. Or I also feel like he'd want to rename the moon Trump Moon. Trump Moon. or just trump drop the moon yeah oh that's planet trump i think trump is wild i mean there's a lot there's you maybe could have a melania planet too mars call it mars yeah uh speaking of rebranding things renaming things uh creed said uh said comms instead of storytelling and the cmo took me out back and shot me with a branded gun uh in other news it's all storytelling from here on out chipotle just introduced high protein cups what price at three dollars and 82 cents low cost chicken cup wait this is actually this is pretty sick i can see you just getting a bunch of i'm so i can see you getting a stack of chicken you know that when i go to i i often go to panda express and i effectively get this i get the a la carte chicken to go and that's just the only thing that i just have 100 grams of chicken ben can attest it's that's how i know what now i know why you're so jacked is because you're getting that panda express chicken it probably has so much steroids in the chicken probably it transfers right through right through uh anyways uh that's our show for today folks uh we will be back tomorrow for the final show of the year.

2:38:12It will be surreal. We will see you then. And thanks for hanging out with us today and our guests, and we hope you have a lovely afternoon. Goodbye. Cheers.