In short
Jimmy Iovine argues AI is a new tool for artists and producers, but success depends on multidisciplinary collaboration, proper licensing/compensation, and preserving “story” and human experience that AI can’t replicate. He also connects this to his USC innovation school and to past music tech shifts (stereo, drum machines, streaming).
Guest backgrounds
Jimmy Iovine is co-founder of Interscope Records and co-founder of Beats (including Beats headphones). He helped sell Beats Music and Beats headphones to Apple. He’s involved with USC’s IYA (Ivan Young Academy for Innovation), which he describes as a multidisciplinary, collaborative school.
Key claims
Education is siloed; students should learn empathy across disciplines. Software companies struggle with consumer hardware because teams can’t communicate across tech/design. AI music will be uneven at first (“Wild West”), but great artists will use it to create masterpieces. AI training must be licensed so artists get paid; unlicensed “cowboys” will lead to dumbed-down outputs.
Notable examples
Apple’s cross-disciplinary DNA (Steve Jobs), Prince’s adoption of drum machines, stereo’s impact on Beatles/“Sgt. Pepper,” streaming/iTunes boldness, Suno’s speed, and the “blinders” metaphor for focusing on one’s own race.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Importance of Collaboration in Education
0:45 to 2:09
Jimmy discusses his experiences with collaboration challenges in tech and education.
“What happened was in 2014, we sold Beats headphones and Beats Music to Apple.”
Siloed Learning and Its Impacts
2:09 to 3:40
Iovine highlights the problems of siloed learning in traditional education systems.
“Yeah, so you're young enough to grow up in a really multidisciplinary environment.”
The Role of Blinders in Modern Life
3:40 to 5:11
Discussion on how social media influences perceptions and the importance of focusing on one's own path.
“Would you go to a grocery store and ask everybody what they think?”
Creating the Iovine Young Academy
5:11 to 7:52
Jimmy explains the founding of his school and its focus on collaborative innovation.
“Now a lot of schools are saying, okay, we offer multidisciplinary.”
The Struggles of Tech Companies with Hardware
7:52 to 9:04
Exploration of why many software companies fail to create successful consumer hardware.
“And when I went, the first time I went up there in 2003, I got it in 30 seconds.”
The Importance of Empathy in Education
9:04 to 11:41
Iovine discusses the need for empathy and understanding in educational environments.
“Like they've done the interdisciplinary work and they see this as the best way to get a job at Apple or the best way to get a job at a startup.”
Creativity Beyond Traditional Forms
11:41 to 14:00
A discussion on the nature of creativity and how it can manifest outside of conventional art forms.
“I mean, they have alumni giving hundreds of millions of dollars to these schools, you know, and I'm sure they go back and talk at them and everything.”
The Nature of Creativity
14:00 to 15:30
Explore how creativity can be learned and developed over time.
“And so it took me to being an adult to realize that creativity can have all these other forms.”
Building a Great Team
15:30 to 17:40
Understanding the importance of surrounding yourself with talented individuals.
“Just go for it and just say, okay, this person is great.”
Risk and Business Decisions
17:40 to 19:20
Discussing how to approach risks and business partnerships in creative industries.
“I remember the story of you paying to advertise G-Thing, right?”
Show all 33 chapters
Technological Shifts in Music
19:20 to 24:30
Examining the historical technological changes in the music industry.
“It was always the professionals, you know?”
AI's Impact on Music Production
24:30 to 28:00
Analyzing how AI is changing the music landscape and its implications for artists.
“Like, Suno, shockingly quickly in about – takes, in my experience, about 10 seconds to make something.”
The Role of AI in Art
28:00 to 29:00
Exploration of how AI influences artistic expression and the limitations it faces.
“Maybe the crap will get more interesting.”
Licensing and Artist Compensation
29:00 to 30:40
Discussion on the importance of compensating artists in the age of AI and licensing.
“And I met a lot of people that are working on it.”
AI as a Creative Tool
30:40 to 33:00
Insights into how producers can utilize AI to enhance their creativity and production processes.
“Yeah, I mean, the technology should be able to help here.”
The Debate on Fair Use
33:00 to 36:10
Examination of the complexities surrounding AI training on existing music and fair use arguments.
“And, yeah, they'll be – look, there are artists out now that can barely sing happy birthday.”
The Future of Live Performances
36:10 to 38:00
Contemplation on how AI could impact live performances and audience expectations.
“I just don't think that – I don't think it's fair use.”
Multidisciplinary Approaches in Creativity
38:00 to 40:20
Discussion on the importance of combining technology and creativity in education and business.
“It all comes down to what we talked about first which is, what's great about this is it's teaching young people.”
Success in Business without Novelty
40:20 to 42:00
Exploration of how successful businesses can thrive without creating entirely new products.
“And so we come from the non wall background, you know, and so that's why we built a school.”
The Role of Communication in Innovation
42:00 to 42:46
Discusses the importance of effective communication and empowerment in business.
“Now, I know who they hired to the head of the hardware division, and he's really good.”
Success Without Invention
42:46 to 43:34
Explores the idea that one can achieve business success without creating something entirely new.
“Like you guys didn't create – you created desire and you created an amazing product, but you didn't create the headphone.”
Finding Market Gaps
43:34 to 44:30
Discusses the importance of identifying gaps in the market for successful entrepreneurship.
“We were like, this is taking candy from a baby, right?”
Understanding Audio Design
44:30 to 45:26
Talks about the need for better audio design in computing and the clash between engineering and design.
“Computers, like I went to a couple of computer companies, not Apple, right?”
Lessons from the Music Industry
45:26 to 46:55
Shares insights on the evolution of the record business and the need for companies to adapt.
“Was there anything else you looked at in terms of product ideas, business ideas before settling on headphones?”
AI and the Future of Music
46:55 to 47:59
Discusses the potential for AI to change the music industry and the need for companies to embrace it.
“So we built a company in Beech that was bigger than Interscope in six years.”
The Flaws in Streaming Services
47:59 to 48:56
Critiques the current streaming model and its impact on artists and consumers.
“What I meant by that is unless they adapt to what artists really want, the artists are very resourceful.”
The Need for Social Integration in Music
48:56 to 50:49
Emphasizes the necessity for social features in music platforms to enhance artist-audience interaction.
“That has to be fixed quickly because, and the labels who have all this historic music need to be in the loop.”
The Future of Concert Ticketing
50:49 to 51:57
Explores the relationship between listeners and concert access, and the need for direct artist engagement.
“And the pay structure in streaming is all screwed up.”
Lessons from the Movie Industry
51:57 to 54:38
Analyzes how the movie industry can inform the music industry's adaptation to modern challenges.
“someone who helped bring streaming service to to light I can tell you that But they're all missing social.”
Integrating Disciplines for Success
54:38 to 56:00
Discusses the importance of integrating various disciplines within companies for better innovation.
Evolving Music Industry Models
56:00 to 58:05
Discussion on the changing dynamics of the music industry and the role of technology.
“But to have to be just a licensor of music to me, first of all, is boring.”
The Role of AI in Music
58:05 to 1:00:02
Exploration of AI's impact and potential in the music business.
“And I thought there were some good points there.”
Educational Transformations and Industry Infiltration
1:00:02 to 1:01:22
Insights on how educational initiatives are designed to impact the music industry.
“And you have Spotify, you have the labels, you have the artists.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Up next we have Jimmy Iovine in person.
0:03Jimmy Iovine:He is the co-founder of Interscope Records. How are you doing, man? We're doing fantastically. How are you? Good, good. Thank you so much for coming on down. Hey, it wasn't easy. You're far from my house, but it's cool. Coming in from Malibu. There we go. I do that drive every day, too. Are you in Malibu? Yeah. Senra, me, Huberman, you know, we got a little podcast dynasty out there. Oh, great, great. I'll give you my number. We're out there. Me and my family, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Ben, too. Ben Taft. Really? Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. That's great. We're all out there. That's great. How are things going at USC?
0:41Jimmy Iovine:Well, you know, we started this, we started the school, you know, it's called IYA. And it's really a school of innovation. What happened was in 2014, we sold Beats headphones and Beats Music to Apple. And at Beats, we had a similar experience where we couldn't find people that could collaborate the way Dre and I wanted them to collaborate. Collaborate the way Dre and I wanted them to collaborate. You know, so we kind of got into that. It was very, very difficult. They were an engineer, design, business. It just, they couldn't speak the same language. They didn't understand the why of the other person.
1:31So when we went to Apple, it was that on steroids for us.
1:36Jimmy Iovine:You know, they're a great company, the best company, you know. But we found that at every company we went to, that everything was very siloed. silos and communication, understanding was siloed. Not just people, but understanding. And so one day I woke up and I just called Dre. I said, Dre, you know, the problems that we're having, you know, Dre and I really didn't go to school much, you know. And I said, but I got a feeling that this is a problem in education. People are learning in a siloed way. You see, 19 to 25 and 26 I don't know about you guys but that's a big imprint on your life yeah you know it's like you learn a lot in the formative years those are really important they were really important for me and I guess that's kind of why the age of and getting like varied experiences I feel is so important when I think about my era from 20 from 19 to 26 I studied economics I learned a program I started a business I filmed videos did marketing I blend It helps to blend all these things together.
2:43How old are you? I'm 37.
2:45Jimmy Iovine:Yeah, so you're young enough to grow up in a really multidisciplinary environment. But importantly, a lot of that was on my own. I just had to go learn. That's my point. Yeah, I had to do it myself. That's my point. So now when you come out of high school, they silo you. Yeah, totally. Okay, you're going to go work with 60 engineers every day. You're going to go to Wharton, but you're going to be with 45 accountants every day. And there's something wrong with that. Yeah. So, you know, we stepped in, went to USC. How do you map that to or match that with this idea of putting on the blinders? Why does a racehorse wear blinders, right?
3:27Jimmy Iovine:Well, because we live in a world now. It's worse than ever with social media. Everyone cares so much about what somebody else thinks. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, we have people just all day. What do they think of my post? What do they think of my orange juice? Who cares? You know what I mean? Would you go to a grocery store and ask everybody what they think? So anyway, I'm an older guy, so it doesn't make any sense to me. But that's the blinders. The blinders are very simple. run your own race but enter that race with the understanding and the empathy of other disciplines yes we all have that problem in any company you have the extreme tech side and the extreme design side have trouble communicating maybe not everyone at every company but most people at most companies And then when you, you know, remember we brought 300 people from the creative business into Apple, basically, you know, and Apple's an incredible company, but it's, and it's the best of them, by the way, by the way.
4:46Jimmy Iovine:But it's all somewhat siloed. Do you think entrepreneurial people know that they're entrepreneurial for the most part? And I ask that because do you find with the school, there's people that maybe that aren't applying to be a part of the program, but you actually want to go and find those people? Or generally are these people like self-selecting and they just know they want to be a part of it? They know that there aren't many schools that fit who they are. Right. And a lot we get a lot of applicants. And that's because we fit. We speak in their language, you know. And think about this. We started this in 2012.
5:27Jimmy Iovine:Now a lot of schools are saying, okay, we offer multidisciplinary. They say, okay, you're in an engineering school, but you can go take one course across the hall. That's not the joke. What it is is what companies want. Actually, we did research at USC to find what type of students they want. Number one came back collaborative innovation. And that's the foundation. You know, our school is really Ivan Young Academy for Innovation. We put, in the beginning, tech, design, and I'll show you, because we wanted to explain it. We wanted to make it literal, like, you know, rock to the forehead kind of, you know, messaging.
6:15Jimmy Iovine:So, but now it's fundamentally the Ivan Young Academy of Innovation. And because people can't, you need to collaborate to innovate. And, you know, look, I'll give you an example. People say, how do you know there are problems at these companies like this? Well, I've been to a lot of them, but I have proof. Here's my proof. Why is it that so few, I want to be generous, so few software companies have built successful commercial hardware, consumer electronics why is that no founders in the seats they run by committee because no they can't collaborate they can't collaborate yeah you know now you know i mean met has gotten the this this piece of uh hardware out there right now but they went to i mean it looks like it looks like they went to ray-ban you know i mean and it's cool it'll do okay you know do fine whatever They're a great company, but none of these companies can make hardware.
7:21Jimmy Iovine:And they all have hardware envy. Yeah. All of them. Yeah. You know, and so there's a reason for that. And my thesis and mine and Dre's thesis is that this is why. Yeah. Because what was so great about, what is so great about Apple, because it's still in their DNA, is they had Steve Jobs. He was the ultimate cross-disciplinary human being. That was in his DNA, where tech meets liberal arts. And when I went, the first time I went up there in 2003, I got it in 30 seconds. Because I had gone to five other companies before that. I talked to them about piracy and all that stuff. I was on a kick about that, you know.
8:09Jimmy Iovine:and I was the minute at hello I met him in ADQ I said okay this is where the party is you know and I just went back I told the people at Doug Morris at Universal who was in charge of the place I said license this guy because they they know a lot more about this than anybody in our business and they have feel okay so this is this school is truly designed behind that meeting I know it sounds simple, but look, we had an idea. I woke up one day and I called Dre. I said, Dre, what about starting a school like this? Hell yeah. By the way, he really talks like that. So we wrote a check for$70 million in a month just on one line, knowing nothing about education.
8:59Jimmy Iovine:And we built what I consider a fabulous school. Do you think that there is a trap to be avoided with the school around students becoming tracked? Like they've done the interdisciplinary work and they see this as the best way to get a job at Apple or the best way to get a job at a startup. And in fact, they should be sort of laying back and watching opportunity come to them during this period. Well, first of all, they're 22 years old. They can go get a job at Apple and still go change the world. That's true. You know, Steve Jobs had a job for Apple, right? So, you know, nothing wrong with getting experience.
9:37Jimmy Iovine:I think it's actually good. Yeah. But it's more important. I mean, look, even the engineering degree, you can see, is trying to expand. They get it. You know what I mean? Yeah. You can't just – it's really not a good environment to work where people just don't understand each other fundamentally. It's empathy. Do you think that as technology grows and technology progresses, that is creating a natural widening force? Because it used to be that the instrument was technology, but it was understandable by an artist. And now the technology might be seven layers deep in some AI thing that's so abstract and so obscure that that creates.
10:24Jimmy Iovine:Look, in 2012, I couldn't spell AI. You know, so I had no idea, but we built a school that's perfect for it. You know, and because it's what it makes so much common sense inside these companies. If you understand the why of the other discipline, otherwise you're walking. It's a crash, you know, and that's why Apple can still make great software and great hardware. that that dna is in those people it's in tim cook it's in eddie q you know and now i don't know this fellow john but i'm sure he was brought up in the same school yeah no he's been there a long time but that's a question that should be asked and will probably never be answered but why do software companies fail when they go to make hardware yeah it's tricky a lot of them have tried A lot of them are trying.
11:21Are you kidding? Yeah. Yes. Basically all of them. But there has to be a reason, right?
11:25Jimmy Iovine:Yeah. So my reason is better than anybody else. Maybe somebody else would come up with a better idea. But my reason is very convenient for my school. Yeah. That's good. Do you think more entrepreneurs should go back to the university that they graduated from and teach a course? Like something that's – there's so many lessons that I didn't learn in school, and I won't claim to be an expert on many things, but if I even had to put together like 90 minutes, I feel like I could save my younger self a lot of time. Of course they should. Everyone should give back. I mean, I think a lot of people do.
12:02Jimmy Iovine:I see it at UC all the time. I mean, they have alumni giving hundreds of millions of dollars to these schools, you know, and I'm sure they go back and talk at them and everything. I spend a lot of time at the school. I try to be very involved, you know, I do. Do you think you would have dropped out of your own school? Like the younger version of yourself? You know, here's the thing. If there was, I have to go for a lot of therapy on dealing with dyslexia first. Sure. You know, I had a lot of trouble reading and paying attention. So I don't know what they call that. There's names for them, you know, but I don't know.
12:42Jimmy Iovine:maybe if there was a lot of Prozac back then, maybe I could have focused, but no, I got into, I, I, I just, what I got into is I got into, I love music, right? So I got into music and engineering, which is sort of technology side, right? So I started as a recording engineer. So you have to understand the basic principles of technology in order to run a console and, you know, fix microphones and do whatever you have to do, you know? So I got lucky. I didn't know I was doing that then, but, you know, I don't know. Not everybody can do that. So school is a great thing. But only if you're in an environment that's going to enhance your creativity and who you are, not take one part of it and put it in a box.
13:31Yeah, the funny thing for me is it took me until I was an adult to realize that I was creative because I remember my pretty formative experience was in early, early school when I'd be in an art class and I'd be told, draw this or do that or whatever. I just was not good at drawing. I never was good at drawing. And in my head, creativity and art was all about drawing, right? Because that was my first time doing anything creative in a school setting. So then I went almost probably 15 years thinking I'm not creative, right? And so it took me to being an adult to realize that creativity can have all these other forms.
14:08Right. It's not just like, can you draw a pretty picture? Right.
14:11Jimmy Iovine:Well, you could also you could learn. You could learn creativity. You could learn taste. You can learn all those things. It's somewhere in you where you can learn it. Absolutely. I had no taste when I walked into the record plant in John Lennon's studio in 1973. I had zero taste. I went from three albums with him, two albums with Springsteen, and one album with Patti Smith, and I left with taste. But I often find that a lot of people have great taste, but they don't have the ability to create things that meet their taste level. Like, taste can be inherent in some people. You know, what you do then is you have an eye for people that do have the gift and you surround yourself with them.
15:00Jimmy Iovine:You know, I learned that at 19 years old. I came from I was living in my mother's house in Brooklyn and Red Hook, Brooklyn. My father was a longshoreman and I met John Lennon and Bruce Springsteen. I did those records and I got an apartment. I said, OK, I meet people like this. My life is going to be OK. I just got to make sure that I don't get thrown out of the room. So when you're running a company, leave your ego out of it and realize somebody does something better than you. And don't defend anything. Don't defend your ignorance. Just go for it and just say, okay, this person is great. I'm going to be of service to this person, even if they work for you, to get them loyal to your company and loyal to you.
15:49And, you know, that's what I always do.
15:53Jimmy Iovine:I got a pretty good eye for seeing who's gifted. And I try to make their life as great as possible.
16:02Yeah, that resonates on a smaller scale where I knew I would care. I'm not great at design. I'm not great at drawing out a logo, for example. But I can find people that can make great logos. And I realize I could at least work with headphones. Yeah.
16:17Jimmy Iovine:Yeah, we come out of music, me and Dre, so people used to go, well, of course, you guys are in the recording studio. Of course you knew how to make headphones. If you gave Bruce Springsteen two pieces of wood, he's like coming out with a guitar. No way. Okay, or Keith Richard. So we had to go and learn. What we did was we found people that really were good at this and bring them in. And we just added the idea of what was wrong. What was wrong is that everyone was listening to music, an entire generation, including yours and yours, on those little free earbuds that Apple would give out. That's right.
16:58Jimmy Iovine:So Dre said to me, man, I spend all day in the studio and my kids are listening on these ridiculous things. So we said, okay. So then we decided we're going to make a headphone. Then everyone tells us you can't, to get a great headphone, they'd be like$300 at retail. I said, well, that's not going to work because Apple gives them away for free and so does Samsung. We said, okay, our job is to get them on people's head. Once they hear it, they're not going back. And that's what we did. So we brought culture and we got them on people's head to try them. And then once young people started trying them, they wanted it for Christmas.
17:44Was that expensive? I remember the story of you paying to advertise G-Thing, right? That was a song.
17:51Jimmy Iovine:That was a song. That was a song. But it was a contrarian move because I feel like pulling the trigger on a big ad spend before an artist has really broken through is risky. But how did that change your – I don't know how to spell risk either. Okay. You know what I mean? I just I just I do I wake up in the morning and I do what I feel yeah and I do what makes sense I talk to the people that are around me and I don't care about the risk I really don't I never did I just do what's right for the project and sometimes you know you cut a lot of flack because you know when you were at a big company or something they budgets and things like that but I I I just get myself in situations where I leave them if I can't just do what I want to do you know sure I try to make a life of just doing what I want to do yeah over the years how how did you think about bringing in new business partners you have some early success working with some set of people you start meeting other great people in your mind how are you deciding whether to spend time and partner with well people versus sticking with the band I'm very I'm very positive person so I always get people to benefit of the doubt and try it you know and you could tell pretty quick if something's gonna work or it's not if it's not say sorry and if it does go in further I try a lot of things you know I'm not it's I'm not precious about anything once I figure what I'm doing I'm precious about that yeah but as far as the education and learning how to get look we would have never done this school yeah i mean you know if we were nervous about things i mean we knew nothing about what we were doing and i think we have one of the best if not the best school in this area in the country yeah you know so that's a good thing there's a obviously a big technological transition in music with ai going back maybe before streaming what was the first technological shift you remember in the music industry I mean that's that's you mean yeah we have before before Napster even I go back a long time you know stereo okay multitrack recording you know where do you want to start it yeah but what was that like was there a discussion about it or was it something that just you know was adopted behind the scenes and the consumer of me it's It's always the, because the stuff like that, it was expensive.
20:29Jimmy Iovine:It was always the professionals, you know? Like you could hear the first time a phaser, one of the first times a phaser was used on a record and Jimi Hendrix, you know? You could hear when the Beatles got stereo. They walked in the studio one day because I knew those guys. And there was two speakers instead of one. You know, Paul will tell you, he has told people, they said, okay, they thought at the beginning, oh, twice as loud, you know? There's more to it. There's more to it. So, you know, it's gone all the way. There's drum machines. The drum machine was big. Yeah. You know, I was fortunate because Roger Lynn used to be a guitar player, and he was playing on one of my sessions when he was creating this thing.
21:08Jimmy Iovine:He had the computer in there with him. He was creating a drum machine. Yeah. So I got to see that really early on, but then Prince exploded it. Yeah. You know, so AI is, you know, it's a little different. Do you think people thought it was a risk? I know risk is not in your vocabulary, but four prints to adopt the drum machine. It was bold. Bold. It was very bold because remember, this guy is a great, great musician that had the greatest musicians playing around him. Yeah. So he said, I'm going to simplify it. I'm going to go to a drum machine here. That's bold and brilliant. And he was one of the guys that exploded it, you know, that really took it, went all the way.
21:52Yeah. The boldness that feels like when you're thinking about stereo or the drum machine or synthesizers, there's an opportunity for boldness on the side of the musician. Did that same opportunity for boldness exist in the streaming transition, in the social media era, in the AI era?
22:11Jimmy Iovine:Okay, let's go to streaming. Streaming, you have to go to iTunes first. That was very bold because the record industry didn't want to license it. Musicians didn't want to sell their songs at a dollar a time. But out the back door, they were being given away on MP3 all day. So what Steve and Eddie had was a really good idea, an elegant way to match their iPod. They had a piece of software that was really elegant. and it worked and these guys understood the culture Steve my first five conversations with Steve job was about John Lennon and Bob Dylan he really cared and understood hey understood hey he went out with Joan Baez right so he understood the the culture yeah and he understood he had a feel for it you know so that was a big step and then streaming was another big step Daniel Eck was a brilliant guy you know we came to the market we had beats music and Interscope and we sold to Apple and that and then we started we worked with the guys up there and and made Apple music how do you think streaming changed music production or the decisions that musicians make I mean I've heard at least anecdotal evidence that albums got longer or there's more songs because that gives you more shots to go viral in the algorithm social media okay social media unfortunately like a thing like tick-tock it's in a lot of ways it's great because it gave artists power and a platform to market themselves, which is what artists want and need and should have.
24:08Jimmy Iovine:But it also made a lot of artists and record company people chase that. Sure. Whatever the latest TikTok thing is, and that can be pretty ridiculous at times. Right. So I think that affected music more sonically and creatively than streaming did personally maybe more songs or whatever yeah great but even that more songs thing came out of soundcloud yeah and uh tick tock and and instagram just putting stuff out yeah i was uh i was talking to a buddy uh of mine in uh in malibu and he's produced 20 30 billboard number ones like really really impressive career and he's for decades now received people will send him demos and he always says he likes to listen because he wants to be working with you know up and coming talent and he said over the last year it's become harder to judge who's who's got potential and who doesn't because because of ai because anybody can make a song that sounds at least decent and maybe there's a thread of a good idea in there and so he said it's just become impossible to understand And to me, that signals that it's going to become even harder to break into the music business because – and suddenly anyone can make a song, right?
25:33Like, Suno, shockingly quickly in about – takes, in my experience, about 10 seconds to make something. And there's patterns you can – if you –
25:44Jimmy Iovine:Well, where do you want to start with this? Yeah, yeah. You're just covering a lot of ground, OK? Yeah, yeah, but I guess my main question is, like, does it become these previous technology trends in music, the professionals, the existing professionals got access to them first, they were expensive to adopt, things like that. Now with AI, anybody in the entire world can get access to it. And I'm wondering, does that mean you're going to have a lot more people breaking into the music industry or less just because competition is like...
26:18Jimmy Iovine:Use of AI or the production of it. Where do you want to start? Well, specifically, what do you think it means for emerging talent? Well, let's use the word talent. If you really have talent, it'll help you. It'll help you create as a tool. You know what I mean? It's like you asked the right question. Stereo. It made Sgt. Pepper better. Yeah. Okay. The drum machine made Prince's first album. Fantastic. Or second album, whatever that was. So I think as a tool, it's going to be fabulous. A lot of these companies that are creating AI music right now are doing so on unlicensed music en masse, like 60 million tracks or something like that.
27:09Jimmy Iovine:Well, those, in my opinion, those are going to be like the kazah of this moment. It's got to get under control to a certain extent. There should be, I mean, in this particular case, there's going to be some kind of government regulations or there should be something, right? For proper licensing. If you use these three influences in the creation of this AI song, those three artists get compensated. That's right. The prompts should get paid, right? Yeah. So, but there's a lot of cowboys and they're going to run around doing this stuff, you know, But that's not, I don't think that's where it's going to shine.
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27:47Jimmy Iovine:You know, like, can people make songs, you know, easier? Can somebody who was Instagram influencer go out and make a song because they know how to dance and jump around and get people's attention? Possibly. But there's crap now. There'll be crap then. There'll be crap now. Maybe the crap will get more interesting. Who knows? But as far as the great artists, you know, Kendrick Lamar, Alicia Olivia Dean you know some great people that are see math some of these young artists that are just you know St. Harrison some of these great great kids saying Harrison there ain't no way I can sing like that kid you know so something like that you know is you know not good they're gonna be there Because what AI can't do is grow up in a terrible home.
28:41AI can't have a broken heart.
28:45Jimmy Iovine:So AI is not going to be Dolly Parton. Art has always been about stories. You look at the modern art museum and there's the constant refrain, my kid could have drawn that, but you didn't. And there's not provenance and there's not a journey and a story behind it. I'm not afraid of AI. And I met a lot of people that are working on it. And none of them truly scare me. you know, or should scare anyone for that matter. And, you know, so I think it's a tool. I think Dre said last week on some interview that it's a tool and that's what it is. But the licensing, the artist that it's learning off of the way this product is, look, when the Beatles came out, they were influenced by Little Richard and Buddy Holly, right?
29:29Jimmy Iovine:They didn't get paid. But now if you're influenced by the Beatles and Dr. Dre, they will get paid. And I got to tell you, everyone's always tough on the labels. But I think I'm watching the labels closely, and I talk to the guys that are running it quite a bit because I've known them all for years. I think they're handling this problem right in the beginning because they have to, the things that are out there just randomly licensing, not licensing, ignoring it, and thinking that they're going to, I think that's, I don't think that works. It most certainly doesn't. I grew up, I grew up for the first 18 years of my life relying on musical artists.
30:13Jimmy Iovine:They changed my life and a lot of people's around me's life. So that music deserves to be paid. You don't just come in and think, I don't believe, I don't believe that. But I'm an older guy. I've been around a long time, so some things are good about that. Some things get a little stale. But I believe that how the labels are handling those particular cases is the right way. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the technology should be able to help here. Of course, there needs to be legal precedent. But, I mean, if you look at the way YouTube's handled it, if I upload a video with a Dr. Dre song on it, any money that I earn from that is going to rout it automatically.
30:53But in the beginning, it wasn't. Yes, yes, it wasn't.
30:55Jimmy Iovine:but pretty quickly and why they sold to Google was they had to pay out a bunch of money. Well, because that's going to happen here too. Exactly. You know, but, but, but, but the chain reaction that this causes, unfortunately, is the people that are giving out licenses shrink, meaning they shrink what they're going to, they lessen what they're going to do. And it's going to cause a lot of this product everybody's excited about to really be dumbed down. Oh yeah. Yeah. All right. So, you know, a couple of companies have gotten licensed. I guarantee you, I don't know, but I guarantee you, in my opinion, that that product would be dumbed down.
31:37Yeah.
31:37Jimmy Iovine:You know, so where the thing will shine is when you get producers that learn how to do this. Yeah. You know, when Stereo first came out in Extreme, there were records, a Beatle record, where the drums were on the right and the vocal was on the left. All right. But then people learn how to blend things. So a lot of producers are using AI right now and it's really helping them. Sure. I mean, they what they do is they they even copy the AI, you know, the idea. What's going to break? It'll break a log. It breaks a log jam in your head. Is that the best way that you see artists using AI as essentially pre visualization?
32:20Like what would happen? That's what I see.
32:22Jimmy Iovine:The guys that I know, the producers that I know, I talk to them. And I keep in touch with a lot of producers because I was a producer and I relate in the record business. I really relate to record producers that had Journey and stuff. So when I was at Interscope, it was driven by record producers. It was Swizz Beatz, Pharrell, Dre, Timbaland, Will.i.am, Polo to Don. All these guys were at Interscope at one time or another. I hope I didn't leave anybody out. I'm sure I did, and I'm sorry. But, you know, they are learning how to use this. It will come from them. And, yeah, they'll be – look, there are artists out now that can barely sing happy birthday.
33:09Okay. I want to think about that.
33:10Jimmy Iovine:Okay. So what's the difference between if you can barely sing happy birthday if you can't sing happy birthday at all, right? So that they will always be boring, silly, you know, records like that. Right. But the great artists and the great producers will maybe create real masterpieces, you know, because of this little spark something. So I'm very pro AI. I just think that in the beginning, there's always the Wild West in anything like this. You've seen it enough. You just go, okay. But the guys that are running the labels are really trying to do the right thing here. And I think in this particular case, the artist and the labels are aligned.
33:55Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, what do you think? So knowing some of these entrepreneurs that are building in the space, they would push back and say within streaming, if somebody was illegally streaming or pirating a song, They are taking a product that an artist and a label produced and they're just consuming that product without paying. That is objectively wrong. In this situation, they are training on a bunch of music to create something entirely new off of that. And they would argue that that's fair use in the way that, like you said, the Beatles had their own inspiration.
34:38Jimmy Iovine:I know, but that's the argument, right? Is it fair use or isn't it fair use? The artists and the labels think it's not fair use. And somebody who's making a lot of money on a new company thinks it is fair use. Yeah, of course. But here's – Those are very convenient arguments. Yeah, yeah. And these companies are making money providing a tool. And I'm actually not taking it aside one way or another. But they make money from selling a tool that lets you create music.
35:09but what's also happening is people are creating that music and then they're going back to the labels and they're going back to artists and they're making new music that then gets listened to and monetized the normal way. So I would argue in some ways that the music industry and artists are, yes, their music is being used to train models that then create other music, but they are also beneficiaries of that.
35:36Jimmy Iovine:Yeah, but there are some people that are dead. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, Wilson Pickett is not going to make a new record. So if you're learning on Wilson Pickett, I believe that his estate should make money. I believe that if you're learning on, you know, somebody who's around today, George Harrison, not George Harrison, you know, like any of the artists that are around today where you're learning from their music, Like they should get – the prompts should get paid. It's going to be hard to monitor, hard to police and all that stuff. But they will figure that out. I just don't think that – I don't think it's fair use.
36:13Jimmy Iovine:I don't think it's free. I just don't. That's where I'm coming from. We just saw this with the social media addiction trials. Like big settlements can come decades down the road and be basically benchmarked to revenue and the money can flow. But it takes a long time to go through the court system. That's just the way I think about America. So what? So what? but it has to be done right and uh it's a wonderful technology for music it's fantastic um but you know this has to be deals made yeah of course of course yeah always uh what do you think about the future of live performances in the age of ai it feels like it could be a really important proof of humanity proof of talent i went to the show sure maybe there was some auto-tune in the loop but I watch them perform and if they can perform to a certain level that gives me more confidence in the rest of their life I happen to be fortunate I have a really good friend in that business named Michael Rapinoe he's the he's the CEO of live nation I learned a lot about the live business from him plus I grew up my friends playing live all the time you know so I I think live is live you know do you want to see somebody performing live spilling their guts on the stage or do you want to see a hologram or something you know I don't know I'd rather see the person live because they just more exciting so I don't know I don't think there's any problem with I don't think this I don't think it crosses I just don't see it you know I don't see it I don't know the future I have no idea I'm not gonna be here anyway so but it's you know I don't know I have no idea I would just expect it to to grow I don't know it feels like the the Aeros tour was such a moment and there's these certain moments that happen in American culture where shelling points everyone comes together around a certain thing and you know to me it's simple you got a new technology yeah it's gonna be great it is great and it's gonna be even better people are gonna use it but there's gonna be licenses and there's gonna be people get paid for and then the great talent and the great artists are gonna show the world how to use it.
38:24Jimmy Iovine:It's that simple to me. It happens every time. It all comes down to what we talked about first which is, what's great about this is it's teaching young people. That's where multidisciplinary behavior comes in. This is technology and you're creative, right? So when you really understand technology and you really understand the creative you're gonna really do well yeah so but you so you shouldn't be siloed in school you shouldn't go to a school where all you do is play the guitar all day you know what I mean it's just to me that doesn't work it I mean Juilliard is a nice place and I'm glad it exists but or Berkeley whatever you know but it's not it's not where I see the world going and not if anybody cares but me personally I'm on this show us as you two guys care so do you think AI can help bridge that original gap that we were talking about when I think about what it takes for a creative person to build a hardware product for example there's a lot of technical hurdles that can now be broken down before there were things to break it down yeah let's put it this way Dre and I had a record company yeah okay we're creative people both record producers we built the biggest headphone company in the world that's hardware okay and the reason why it's all because it's goddamn hard okay just why not everybody does it so we did it yeah right we're creative guys that built a piece of hardware that's why we started the school yeah it's all needs to be working together yeah you know and we built the number one beats was the number one headphone in 50 countries when we sold to Apple Yeah.
40:13So we did it. And because we live in a multidisciplinary world, we were both recording engineers, me and Dre.
40:24Jimmy Iovine:Yeah. And so we come from the non wall background, you know, and so that's why we built a school. Yeah. It's that's it. And, you know, it's when I go when you go look at these most companies right now.
40:46Jimmy Iovine:Technology, engineering, design. Yeah. Don't talk to Richard. There's a lack of communication and a lack of understanding. Yeah. Again, I asked the question again in case somebody just tuned in. Yeah. Why can software companies not build really successful consumer products? Yeah. There has to be an answer. I don't have the answer, but you guys are really smart. You talk to everybody in the world. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah. But there has to be something at the core of what's going on that challenges that. No one can say, no, he's wrong. No, I'm right. No, you're right. Yeah, well, one of the things you brought up, you brought up Meta.
41:27No, no. You brought up Meta. I think one of the reasons that's been successful is they didn't try to reinvent too many things. They just made a good looking pair of glasses that also had a camera in it. And that was enough. That's been enough.
41:38Jimmy Iovine:Well, they sold two million. Yeah. They didn't sell 20 million. We sold 2 million headphones in Brooklyn. It's not a massively successful. And also acquired Oculus to get that whole project started. And by the way, in fairness, I have a pair and I enjoy using it. It's fun. But that does not a story make yet. Now, I know who they hired to the head of the hardware division, and he's really good. So, but are there people at that company that can really communicate and empower him and that type of stuff? I don't know. I don't know. Meta is a great company. Mark Zuckerberg is brilliant. But do I know about that?
42:21Jimmy Iovine:I don't know. They've done a good job at getting that product out. Yeah. Yeah.
42:30I feel like one of the big lessons that people in the school should hopefully be imprinted on their minds is that you can be wildly successful in business without creating anything that's exactly new, right? Like you guys didn't create – you created desire and you created an amazing product, but you didn't create the headphone. And I think that when a lot of people think about entrepreneurship and creativity and business, they think I need to come up with some totally novel idea, right? Well, it starts out by I don't think I'm Steve Jobs, OK? But even Steve didn't – he didn't create the phone.
43:11Jimmy Iovine:No, but he had a much bolder attitude towards life than I did. and he's much smarter than I am, right? Somebody asked me, what's the difference between you and Steve Jobs? They're very simply smarter than me when we were hanging out together, right? So, but, no, you don't have to invent something new. I mean, headphones weren't new, but the attitude of headphones was new. Bose was out there saying, buy my headphone for$300, and we're going to help you sleep. We were like, this is taking candy from a baby, right? We are not going to help you sleep. We are going to rock your head. The ads were silence, not music.
43:47It's the opposite of music. Exactly.
43:49Jimmy Iovine:We had a real edge there and they all looked like medical equipment. So your job as an entrepreneur is to find that hole in the market, right? Where's there a hole? We knew there was a hole there because Dre, first of all, most computers had their speakers facing the table. So that was like, okay, great. Let's face them up. We're geniuses. Let's get it. Right? So. No, there's so many times when you're looking at different categories, specifically with I find it with consumer products where you're like, is there like a law that says that it has to be done this way? And oftentimes you do a little bit of research and you realize.
44:29We're going back to understanding each other.
44:34Jimmy Iovine:Right? Computers, like I went to a couple of computer companies, not Apple, right? And I witnessed this firsthand to where engineering, audio, the audio budget in a computer at the time was 50 cents. Okay? Wow. That's nothing. Right. So you want to know why. And music was being played through it. Yeah. Yeah. Guess what? That's not enough. Yeah. You know? So, but that's where the breakdown is. Yeah. Because design and engineering clash. And that's where, I keep saying it over and over again, but it's true, that's where our school comes in to help training people that are going to become the new engineers and the new designers and the new entrepreneurs to understand the why of each other's discipline.
45:25Jimmy Iovine:It sounds like kumbaya, but it's not. It's real. Was there anything else you looked at in terms of product ideas, business ideas before settling on headphones? Well, it came out of a real frustration of the record business because, again, the record business at a time was really cool. And, you know, music was the right thing to do and all that. But when I met Steve and those guys, cool had moved the technology and I felt it. You know, I felt the shift and I said, okay, the first guy that was really cool with technology was Morita from Sony, the original founder of Sony. He had the Walkman, you know, he really got it.
46:13Jimmy Iovine:Oga who replaced him really got it. They, he bought Columbia pictures and Columbia records. That's right. Right. And then they kind of screwed it up because they got, that gave Steve, that gave Apple the opening to go take that idea, which Steve has said many times publicly. And so when I saw that, I said, we have to learn a new trick. We have to move. I believe companies need to move laterally. I do. I felt record companies especially needed to move laterally. That's why we created beats and beats music inside of Interscope. we did it at the company. So we built a company in Beech that was bigger than Interscope in six years.
47:00Jimmy Iovine:So obviously tech and design and creativity all belongs in the same box. It's all just moving your company. We have a company called Complex right now. And what we're trying to do there, we brought back Mark Echo, we have Aaron Levant, my son Jamie's there. and we're trying we have a real a lot of really good people and we're trying to mix disciplines in it and we are creating an ai product alongside of it that will blend all these things together and not all of them but the things that we have together because we're firm believers in that you know the record industry needs to move laterally they need to own the enterprise of ai not just license to everyone that's you know oh yeah interesting they should own the enterprise why not you know it is no reason why not instead of licensing to everyone yeah only enterprise yourself yeah right we own beats yeah why is there so much historical sort of disaggregation in the music industry like the the actual relationship between the artists and the end consumer it's always been intermediated and it feels like that's been a problem it's insane and it's ridiculous okay all artists want is be able to communicate with their audience and ask me why spotify and apple music don't have social yeah uh i know why apple music doesn't and i don't know why spotify doesn't but that's why i said on an interview once recently that streaming is is minutes away from being obsolete.
48:43Jimmy Iovine:What I meant by that is unless they adapt to what artists really want, the artists are very resourceful. Right now they gotta go to Instagram, TikTok. You know, it's like a silly game. And that has to be fixed. That has to be fixed quickly because, and the labels who have all this historic music need to be in the loop. Whether they like it or not, they are a tech company, and they have to adjust to that. And if they don't, I believe it's not going to be great for them. Yeah. Yeah, the Spotify story is interesting. I mean, Sean Parker obviously involved in both Facebook and Spotify, and so I think they had this, like, delicate truce because if you remember in the early days of Spotify, everything you'd listen to would be shared on Facebook, and that was a huge growth driver but that's not why Spotify is not social no I don't believe that that's the point Apple's not social because Apple musicals they don't look when we were there we wanted to buy musically oh yeah we we brought those guys up there twice but Apple doesn't do social and they shouldn't do so okay I get why they shouldn't yeah I was on the tail yeah I I was on a tail wagging the dog, you know what I mean?
50:07Jimmy Iovine:I was on the tail. So, you know, I understand why they didn't do it. But we, Trent Reznor and I instinctively knew, especially Trent, that we needed social. And it's going to be limited without that. So, you know, look, Apple, so far out of all the companies I found, they're still the most interesting, you know, because they still have that DNA in them. They just said, we're not going to, we don't do social. Fine. They don't. So that was not a good fit, you know, so, but that's cool. But it doesn't mean that music doesn't need it. Right now, you're not giving the artists what they want. Yeah. And the pay structure in streaming is all screwed up.
50:56Jimmy Iovine:So if you're married, you got a ring on your fingers, or maybe you have kids. If you have two or three kids, you have the family plan. Oh yeah. If you listen to what's your favorite music? Uh, my favorite artist is Yeet. Yeet. Oh, great. Okay. So you listen to that and your kids listen to Elmo. Oh, they're babies. Okay. Well, let's say they listen to Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar, and you listen to Fleetwood Mac and Madonna. I'm paying, but the kids are listening disproportionately. Yes. They lean on the button all day. So guess who gets paid? You pay the bill. Taylor Swift gets paid. Crazy. But Fleetwood Mac doesn't get anything.
51:39Almost raking it in. Exactly.
51:42Jimmy Iovine:Exactly. But that's the structure. so yeah streaming is flawed yep and not complete but Daniel's brilliant Alex is really talented those guys at Spotify so they're gonna figure a lot out they may be thinking a whole other paradigm that I don't even understand right so but someone who helped bring streaming service to to light I can tell you that But they're all missing social. Yeah. Period. And that's why I have a crew of guys and girls that I work with. We're looking at something right now that's really interesting. We're doing it with one of the main companies. And we have an idea that we believe is unique and good and great for the artist and great for the labels.
52:33Jimmy Iovine:And that's what we're going to do. Yeah, we have we've had some guys from Spotify on and I think that one of the interactions I was most excited about that they've been working on and working towards is making sure that the people that are listening to artists the most get access to the concert tickets. Right. Because an artist doesn't necessarily benefit. Yeah, but that's that's self-serving. You know, I mean, I get it. But the artists should be doing that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Again, you don't need third parties to do a lot of this stuff. You know, why do the labels need third parties to deliver their music?
53:13Jimmy Iovine:I'll tell you why. They don't. Right? Yeah. But they do. Right? So that all should evolve with the artists in the front of the paradigm, you know, making the money and doing great and communicating. So, um, I'm not very differently in Hollywood with, with, uh, Disney plus and Hulu. Well, that's not sure. Well, hang on. No, yes and no. And I'll tell you why, because when Netflix came to town, they came to town with a big checkbook and unfortunately all these companies are public. Now this, I'm going to make this official. This is my opinion. Okay. But. But they all licensed them, their music, at least most of them did.
53:55Jimmy Iovine:Why? Because they got big checks and helped make their numbers. Well guess what? They created a monster. Right? And now they're trying to catch up. So music business is the same thing. They licensed their music to Spotify, Apple Music and Amazon. Well Spotify is worth more than all the labels together. Guess how much IP they own? Zero. Somebody's podcast maybe or something. you know maybe they're wrong I don't know but yeah but that's but that's the point so the movie business didn't get it they they got it late at least they got it yeah and I think that's gonna happen in music I think the music companies are you are going to be more involved and AI is the opening to do it AI is the road that doesn't mean Spotify is not but Spotify is going to have to morph as well okay you can't just no ride goes forever when I was a kid not a kid I'm sorry I wasn't a kid I was 2002 just it was nowhere near spring chicken I was nowhere near a kid doesn't but when I saw a pirate say I went and met with three tech companies and one of the tech companies very high up guy at Intel said to me Jimmy this is a great I started talking about the recording studio and the people that are suffering and you know that's not the big stars it's the kids in the studios and said what a fabulous story said Jimmy but not every industry was made to last forever it was powerful I said he's right sorry this music thing had a good run but it's not music it's the business of music that looks like right so I carried that with me yeah and then when I met Steven Eddie after that I said holy shit these guys they're the next step yeah so there is a next step now and Spotify may grab it you know they have all the tools available and the money the capital and everything so they could recreate their business all the time and you got a guy like Alex running it who's really really talented the people at Apple are really talented he got Oliver and that team over there they're all really good so maybe they'll morph the company into something that it needs to be or maybe the labels will figure it out and they'll do more of what this new model needs to be.
56:23Jimmy Iovine:But to have to be just a licensor of music to me, first of all, is boring. Second of all, has nothing to do with any other discipline in the world it doesn't yeah and and you need to to have a proper company today you have to have blend of disciplines inside your company proven by two great great people Marita from Sony and Steve Jobs at Apple period yeah they got it top to bottom and they set the tone who out there doesn't want to be Steve Jobs right they you know they everybody's every he's the new steve jobs this is he's the old steve jobs you know he's not steve jobs he is steve jobs yeah but yeah it's saying something i've never everyone wants to be and yet i've never seen someone and thought damn they're the new steve job they're missing what steve was steve was the ultimate he knew it he knew the goal was where technology and the liberal arts meet and there's nothing more evident than that than in AI yeah you know so do you think you would have liked AI I don't know I can't I never tried I was a friend of mine yeah he has an incredible wife Laureen Powell Jobs who's an incredible human being and Johnny Ives yeah incredible people I can't speak for them though for Steve he was his own guy but But, you know.
57:55Yeah. Yeah. A friend of the show was trying to compare AI messaging to the launch of GarageBand and democratization of creative tools. And I thought there were some good points there.
58:09Jimmy Iovine:Although he didn't like streaming. Yeah. He was very public about that. But who knows? Maybe he was right. You mentioned the tail wagging the dog at Apple. If you're a tail, should you try and wag the dog? Is that advice that you would give to someone who works in a large organization if they're interdisciplinary? Well, what I was saying is that, look, there's no hiding it. Big companies, music, outside of music companies, nobody wants a tail wagging a dog. But is it a fool's errand to try?
58:45Jimmy Iovine:I don't know. I don't know. Depends on the situation. I don't know. But I always use Apple as an example because I think it's run really well. They blend it as well as you could blend it. You know, Steve was a big music guy and so is Eddie. So they do it really well. But, you know, I think the record company should do it. I really do. I don't get it. I think that they should do it. They should take it on themselves. and Spotify's a music company. They can do it. Live Nation. Isn't there some interesting positioning that the record companies, at least if they banded together, could work with the artists to say, hey, if you subscribe to Apple Music or Spotify, Spotify and Apple Music are taking a big cut.
59:35If you work with us, a lot more revenue is actually going to the artists. Is that how you position it?
59:41Jimmy Iovine:I don't know. I don't know if that's right. I just, because it's a hard bell to unring. I'm not looking at streaming. That happened already. I don't think the labels are going to start streaming services. You know, not in any time short in the next few years anyway. But I do think there could be a new AI business. Yeah. And that's where the opportunity lies. And you have Spotify, you have the labels, you have the artists. So there's something in there that needs to evolve out of this. that makes more sense. You know, and I see it all together. But I always have. That's why we started the school we started.
1:00:25Jimmy Iovine:It just all goes back to that. It's just the way people think. That's how we think. Yeah, I mean, obviously the answer is probably both, but I would be interested to see if you're more optimistic about the entrepreneurship that comes out of your school or the transformation within industry. The school was built to transform inside the industry. Okay. Yeah. It was built for jobs. It turned into an entrepreneurial place. Of course. You know, I guess we caught that wave, you know, everybody wanting to be like one of these guys or Zuckerberg or something, but it was made to help communication inside Apple, Google, all these giant companies that are taking over the entertainment business literally.
1:01:09Jimmy Iovine:So it's not going to happen in my lifetime, but we wanted to build as many people as possible to infiltrate and help make that all one thing rather than have to be a tail wagging a dog. I mean, look, Intel's buying Paramount and Warner, right? I mean, fundamentally, I mean, and David Ellison is terrific. He's a really smart and understands where these two things cross. So hopefully there'll be some great stuff there. Yeah. It's going to be exciting. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been an honor. An honor and pleasure. It was fun. Let's do it again as we're making some more of these plays.
1:01:46Jimmy Iovine:Oh, I don't know. You're very far from my house. Maybe if you come to my house, we can do it. Yeah, we'll do it over there. That's fine. But anyway, there's a big world behind me. Yeah, it's a nice set. Yeah, thank you. Look at the lighting. We reinvented television. Well, we will see you tomorrow at 11 a.m. Thanks for tuning in, folks. Sharp.
From the publisher
This is our full interview with Jimmy Iovine.
We discuss why he and Dr. Dre started a school at USC, how they built Beats into the world's biggest headphone company, what he learned from Steve Jobs, why software companies struggle to build great hardware, how AI will transform music, what's broken about Spotify and streaming, and more.
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