Loudmouths

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0:44And even change you. I literally feel like I'm a different person. Yes. Do you feel that way? Ideas worth spreading. From TED and NPR, I'm Manoush Zamorodi. So really telling me that you three want to go out, huh? Yes, sir. Who's going? On the show today, Loudmouth. Write their name and number on this paper. At what time you are coming home, huh? Um, nine. Make it seven. Okay, seven's fine. Lily Singh was in her early 20s, still living with her parents in Toronto, when she hit it big on YouTube. Aunties have no filter. Oh, okay, you want everything to be sugar-coated, huh? Maybe that's why you gain weight.

1:28With videos that poked fun at her culture. No one on YouTube really looked like me. To my knowledge, was not another South Asian woman talking about relationships or issues they were having with their family or like their period or like all these things that were considered taboo. Girls get a period because when they're talking to someone and that person finished their sentence, they say, period, here you go. Thank you. To some, this might not sound taboo. But to her Indian community, Lily's videos were shocking. I'm an adult, full-fledged adult, and I have a hard time being intimate with people.

2:02What the ready head you mean, intimate with the people? It was clear she'd struck a nerve, especially for young people with immigrant parents. Millions of people from all over the world began following her online. And she started making a good living. A really good living. In 2017, Lily was listed in the top 10 of YouTube's highest paid stars. A lot of my following was because people were like, oh my God, she is speaking about my experience in a way no one else has ever spoken about my experience on screen. And that's how I built a community. All these accolades were great. But for Lily, success was also about proving herself to her family, especially her grandfather.

2:45My first impression of him was, oh, this person really was not overjoyed at my birth. So when I was born on September 26, 1988, my grandparents and great-grandparents back in India didn't find out for two weeks. Here's Lily Singh on the TED stage. And it's not because the phone lines were down or because they weren't available. It's because there was a complication with my birth. And that complication was being assigned female at birth. You see, because my mom had been told that if she gave birth to a daughter, it wasn't worth phoning home about. And so there were no congratulations or Indian sweets sent our way.

3:25Just the reality that from the moment I came into this world, I was already a disappointment to so many people. So when Lily went on a world comedy tour, she made sure to visit the grandfather she had never met in India. So I went into that meeting as an adult feeling really emotional and feeling really bitter. And then when I arrived at his house, he put a flower garland over me and was celebrating me. And he even went on to show me like all these news clippings he had saved of me. And he said the words, a son could have never done what you did for us. That was a monumental day in my life. Did it not annoy you in some ways that your grandfather sort of accepted you precisely because you were in the newspaper, because you were famous, because you got what could be considered, you know, superficial accolades?

4:18Totally. You know, you're absolutely right. And I will admit, it's not perfect. It's not the perfect scenario. It's super late and it's super superficial, but I still need it to count for something. I, in my ideal world, would have my grandfather be like, oh my God, the patriarchy's garbage. I get how it's affecting you and me both. I understand how it's held me back. But I know that's not happening. Like, it's not going to happen. In so many different cultures, women have been told to stay quiet, do as they're told. And so they find that the only way to make waves is by being loud. So today on the show, loudmouths.

4:58Reaping the rewards and consequences of speaking out and making people uncomfortable. Stories from three female performers. Pussy Riot founder Nadia Tolokonikva. We don't hear about heroes who fight against Putin and Russia, but they exist. Playwright Sarah Jones. It does force you to speak up and be squeaky and be loud. And of course, comedian Lily Singh. You know, I grew up feeling the disappointment from a lot of people in my culture, from a lot of men in my family, of what it means to be a girl. Simple, simple things. Girls shouldn't dress like that. Girls shouldn't whistle. Girls are not supposed to do these careers.

5:38And, you know, every step of the way, there was always this limitation because you were a girl. Well, I'm telling you this because although this is my lived experience, it's also the reality that millions of girls face every day across every culture and in every country. Being born into this reality set me on a lifetime mission of trying to prove myself and just feel like I was enough. What did I want to be when I grow up? I wanted to be treated equally. In fact, us girls, what we desperately want is a seat at the table. It's what every motivational poster, Instagram account you follow, business article, tells us success is a seat at the table.

6:18And if they want to be extra spicy, they say, if there is no seat, drag your own seat. I'm sure you've heard this, right? And so my marching orders were clear. Get a seat at this coveted table by any means necessary. And that's been the driving force behind my entire career. In 2019, I'm going to say what everybody said at the time. Do it, baby. Do it. Hit it. You debuted as the first bisexual woman of color to host a network late night TV show. Bam, bam, bam. There I was, Lily, the baby born a brown girl, rubbing elbows or at least time slots with comedy royalty. And I got to give a huge shout out to NBC for boldly trying to break late night tradition.

7:04I remember when this show came out, I remember all the articles because it looked practically identical. bisexual woman of color gets late night show. I almost legally changed my name to bisexual woman of color because that's what people called me so often. And you know, as strange as that sentiment was, I thought, okay, the silver lining is that we'll finally get a different perspective in late night. A little bit of melanin, a dash of queer, a different take on things. Let's do this. And I remember thinking, now, ho ho, now, I've been invited to the big table. Things will be different. And so when that happened, you pulled up that proverbial chair and found what?

7:48Trash. I found trash. I mean, here's the thing. I think there's a really unfair expectation that someone could step into a world like that and suddenly have their groove, have their voice, have everything figured out. Like for the first meeting I had about the show when I was expressing some of my reservations, being like, okay, guys, we're shooting a lot of episodes here. I need to know what kind of support I would have. Like I want it to be my voice. I want it to be good. I want it to be making commentary. So for me to try to do that and be that involved in 96 episodes over three months honestly was truly the death of me.

8:23I would be up for like 14 hours. I would write to do the writer sessions and I would do two to three shows a day. Then after that, I would do a writer's meeting again at like 10 p.m. and then I would go home and read all the things for the next day. It was just not set up for success. Still, I thought, if the budget doesn't celebrate the historicness of the show, then the creative can. You know, I can bring some much-needed spice to late night. And sometimes I was successful. I came out to my friends as a vegetarian. But other times, I would receive notes like, don't be so big, don't be so angry, smile more, Rubby.

8:58Lisha was arrested, had her home raided, and was thrown in jail for, are you ready? Wait for it. She clearly must have ruffled a lot of feathers. What did she do? She edited a Google Doc. And my all-time favorite, don't over-index on the South Asian stuff. You know, I couldn't even invite Rajeshia's mother-in-law's cousin's nephew's wife's cousin. I love that guy, man. I know, she already called him. I kept trying to pull up my seat. I kept trying to ask for a more supportive seat. But every time I would be told that I should be grateful to have a seat in the first place. You mentioned in your talk some of the notes that you got from executives when you were making the show.

9:37What did they like about what you were doing and what did they feel needed to change? You know, the South Asian thing particularly bothered me because sometimes I felt that what they are considering over-indexing on the South Asian stuff is me just talking about my parents and life. I did really feel like the punching bag for all identity politics. I vividly remember one day after I did my episode, I went to my green room and I took out a piece of paper and a pen and I literally wrote down, okay, how many times did I mention being a woman? How many times did I mention being South Asian? How many times did I mention being queer?

10:06Is this enough? Is it not enough? Are people going to be mad? It was just an impossible situation to be in. There is a conversation going on, you know, about whether the era of late night TV is dying. Do you think that the executives were like, okay, yeah, sure, sure, Lily's great, but also she ticks all these demographic boxes for us and those are the young people we need to start watching TV around midnight to save ourselves? So I've thought about this a lot. You know, it seemed like NBC was trying to get in a new audience by tapping into my audience, which is young and diverse and super open-minded.

10:45But at the same time, they were very scared to alienate their current audience, which is used to seeing a straight white man back to back to back to back. So your late night show did end up getting canceled. You know, if someone read that sentence, they would immediately think, oh, she failed. Totally. But did you see it that way? Truthfully, it's hard for me to not partially feel that way. But I don't think I failed. I think we failed, honestly. I think it's a failure from NBC's end. I think it's a cultural failure a little bit. because I was really excited when I got my late night show to hit on some topics that only I could uniquely hit on.

11:27The farmers protest in Punjab was one of the biggest protests in human history and I covered it in my second season. And the amount of headlines I saw that had Trevor Noah's perspective on it and whoever else covered it, not mine. There's things I would definitely do differently as well. I would never get into that situation again if I didn't think it could be a success. Because do I think it moved the envelope forward? Yes. But do I think it was too short-lived? Absolutely. When investing in women, don't invest in the 1.30 a.m. time slot. Give them the support they actually need. Cultural change takes time.

12:02And money. Heck, it took my grandfather 25 years. So a true investment is one that values potential over proof. Because so often that proof doesn't exist for women. Not because we aren't qualified, but because we haven't been given the opportunity. Inviting everyone in isn't just a nice gesture. It makes for better, more productive, smarter conversation with more than one point of view. This is about creating a world where half of the population can thrive. You see, because the work we do today can create a world where future generations of girls can have equitable access and opportunity. A future where everyone is seated at the table equally.

12:44and a future where being assigned female at birth is not a disappointment or a disadvantage because girls are encouraged, empowered, and expected to do great things. Thank you so much. Lilly Singh is a comedian, writer, and actor. You can see her full talk at TED.com and her latest TV show, Muppets Mayhem, on Disney+. On the show today, loudmouths. You're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi, and we'll be right back.

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16:35It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi. And on today's show, loudmouths. Stories of women taking a stand, pushing boundaries, and the moment when the systems they're fighting against start to push back hard. I want you to feel like I felt when I was getting sentenced. This is Nadia Tolokonikva on the TED stage. It's August 17, 2012. I'm handcuffed and standing for four long hours while the judge is reading my sentence. Nadia stood, along with two co-defendants, in a metal and glass cage at the back of a Moscow courtroom. You're in a small cage, and you're surrounded by 10 prison guards in balaclavas.

17:32There is also a guard dog who is barking at you angrily because the dog is trained to be suspicious towards people who smell like prison. The prosecutor asked for three years in jail for me. My crime is considered to be severe, and it means that the judge can give me up to seven years in jail. And as I'm standing here, handcuffed behind the bars, I'm thinking to myself, can one person change the world? Is it even worth trying? or am I just setting myself up for a failure? Will I be able to achieve my dreams or I'm going to be inevitably smashed by the system? So what was Nadia's crime? Well, in 2011, she co-founded a performance art group.

18:38And if their music isn't familiar or you don't remember their colorful dresses paired with mismatched ski masks, maybe their name will ring a bell. Pussy Riot's latest. Pussy Riot's flag. Pussy Riot. Pussy Riot. Young political artists. These feminist punk protesters would storm city buses, metro stations, even Red Square, and belt out lyrics against sexism, the patriarchy, and of course, Vladimir Putin. The punk feminists don't just challenge President Putin, but mock his manhood.

19:16But ironically, the thing that landed them in that courtroom was, according to Nadia, their worst performance of all. So the performance lasted only for 48 seconds. In February 2012, Nadia and four others covered in long coats entered a prominent Russian Orthodox church. When they got close enough to the pulpit, the coats came off, the masks went on, and they stormed the stage. The music was confiscated in the first 10 seconds. So for the most part, we were just dancing. I mean, honestly, the protest itself was pretty underwhelming. And the guards brought us to the door and let us go. It wasn't a huge deal because it was so lousy.

20:08We were interrupted so early. We've decided that we're just going to swipe the section under the carpet and forget about it. But then you released the music video version and the message was pretty clear, basically saying the church worshipped at the feet of Putin. And that was the final straw for law enforcement. The police were after you. Yeah, we were running from the police for seven days. It was just like in spy movies. We threw away our actual phones. We bought new ones. We were running from place to place every single day. It was a scary time. So getting arrested was almost like a relief.

20:59Okay, so let's wind back a bit. You describe yourself as a pretty shy and lonely kid from Siberia. So I'm wondering, how did you go from that to a central figure in the resistance movement against Putin? My dad was politically active, not in the outside world, but in our family setting. He would always encourage me to read political magazines and listen to political radio stations. When I was 10, he told me that I'm too old and too smart to read cosmopolitan and glamour. And we did have good political media at the time because it was not destroyed yet by Vladimir Putin. So I learned a couple of things from there.

21:49And then I moved to Moscow. And in six months, I joined my first ever demonstration. and it felt like I'm combining my forces with other people who want to see Russia better, less corrupted, just beautiful Russia of the future, as Alexei Navalny says. And I realized that I found my chosen family and I never left the streets and continued to protest. Tell me what that first protest was like. Do you remember where it was and what specifically you were protesting? Putin. It must be fun to live in a freer country because you can protest against the whole variety of issues. In Russia, it all comes down to just one individual.

22:40For some context, when Nadia started protesting in 2007, Vladimir Putin had already been president for seven years. The former KGB officer romanticized the country's one-party communist past. His government had seized the assets of political rivals, silenced journalists, and dissolved international treaties. In response, progressive students like Nadia would go out and protest and get arrested. It was actually pretty common. Then later it became just a matter of everyday life. You get out of the house, you get arrested preventively because just that what happens in Putin's Russia. OK, so tell me, fast forward to 2011.

23:24I want you to sort of help me tell the story of the founding of Pussy Riot. I gave birth when I was 18. and I think it's the first time in my life when I really realized that feminism is not just a beautiful political ideology and an amazing theoretical construct that I read about in books, but it's actually a matter of survival for me because people started to treat me differently after I became a mother. Just all sorts of sexist comments that people would throw at me. Like what? I was just discarding me as an individual. People suddenly would not invite me to organizing meetings. So even my colleagues kind of pushed me aside and were completely comfortable with me taking care of the kid and not participating in the work.

24:21Even the father of my kid didn't really participated in caring about her and it made me slowly realize that we still have a long way to go when it comes to rights of women it led me to starting pussy riot as a response to the sexism that i saw but so what was pussy riot to you was it a band was it a movement like what was the thinking? It started initially a little bit as a joke. We had an intent to form something like this, but I think we were pushed by fate. So we were asked to go to deliver a speech about Russian feminism. And a part of our lecture was about to be about punk feminism. Then at night before the lecture, we realized that there is no punk feminism in Russia.

25:18we just completely made it up and what are we going to talk about and so we had to create this punk feminism and overnight we didn't know how to play instruments so we took a sample from an old oipunk band from the end of 60s

25:45it sounded disgusting But we presented it the next day. And we thought that that's it. Our job was done. The lecturer was somehow successful. We were happy with ourselves. But Russia's democracy was increasingly in free fall. Political corruption was rampant. Voter fraud was on the rise. And then in the winter of 2011, Vladimir Putin announced he'd run for an unprecedented third term as president. It basically meant Putin is going to be with us for another 12 years. And it was also obvious that after those 12 years, he'll find another way to flip the table and stay forever. So from a corrupt but still democracy, we went into totalitarian regime in just, like, in just really just one day.

26:48Tens of thousands of people protested. And the members of Pussy Riot decided to join them in their ski masks, performing and making noise everywhere. We toured around public transport in Moscow, mostly subway. We were arrested almost every single day and bring us to the station. We spent there from two hours to 10 hours. Never told press about our arrests because our goal was to make ourselves look like superheroes and superheroes are never getting arrested. How would you describe the sound of Pussy Riot? Because I remember when I first heard you guys, I was like, those are a bunch of loud, badass women.

27:37And you would be wearing dresses and balaclavas and just like punk beyond punk. Was that the goal? Exactly. I'm really proud of us. And I remember coming to my friends, actual musicians, being, I want instrumental of a punk song. and they would deliver something much more sophisticated and interesting and contemporary. And I was like, we don't need this. We need just straight up, like scratching, terrible, in-your-face, old-school punk.

28:18So this gets us to the spring of 2012 when you protested inside the cathedral. You hadn't done anything like that before. What made you choose the cathedral? So I'll give you a little summary. We came to the Cathedral of Christ the Savior because the patriarch of Russian Orthodox Church said recently that everyone who is an actual believer, who is an actual Christian, has to go and vote for Putin. which was absolutely disgusting to me because he was using religion and all those people actually believing in god with open hearts to him he was using them for his own little political agenda and he's known for being filthy rich so his first hand benefits from the corrupted regime of Vladimir Putin which is absolutely disgusting to me so I um me and the girls decided to go to the Cathedral of Christ the Savior and talk about it.

29:25So you were sentenced and you went to jail for two years. And what I find extraordinary is you emerged even more committed and resolved. How? well you have two options when you are in jail you can let your spirit be broken or you can let this dramatic experience to make you stronger and it's easier said than done it is an everyday struggle for finding this energy to keep living keep fighting and recently reread Viktor Frankl's Men's Search for Meaning. And obviously, it would be absolutely crazy to compare any experience with the experience he had to go through. He went through concentration camps and got out alive and wrote this book.