Go For No author and sales pro, Andrea Waltz, on how you get a yes!

0:28Welcome to the Big Success Podcast. or how success and failure. I love her parable on the marriage of success and failure. Anyway, stick with it. This is someone that's a super sales pro, great author, speaker on a whole bunch of things, being number one bestseller on Amazon for sales. So you've got to learn this. More than half a million copies of this book is out there in the marketplace. So there's something to it. Stick with it, learn a bunch, take a bunch of notes. This is a big success podcast. Let's go. So, Andrea, I have to ask, in all of the things that you've taught and you've been teaching for years, I want to go to my first question of a very simple answer.

1:09What is success to you? And it might not be actually that simple. So, success to me is probably not the same as I think you might hear from other people. Success to me, it's certainly the achievement of a desire or a goal. But for me, it must also include the possibility of failure. And the reason why I say that is, you think about getting up in the morning, rolling out of bed, walking to the kitchen. Now, we wouldn't define that as success. That's not an achievement of a goal. It's just a process. It's no big deal. However, if you were somebody who was in an accident and you had just spent the last three months in rehab and trying to learn to walk unassisted without a walker or a cane, and you finally were able to roll out of bed and you walked on your own without any help from anyone, without anything, that would be a huge success.

2:12And so I think that when you add the possibility of failure into the definition, it's what makes success actually interesting. It's what I think Truman Capote said, failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. And that to me, that is really the definition. Yeah. So was it always like that for you or did that evolve over time, do you think? That has definitely evolved over time because I've been a student of success and a student of failure now for 25 years. Didn't start out that way. In fact, I guess I was kind of typical in that I thought my mission in life was to do everything within my power to avoid failure.

3:01And I certainly cared what other people thought. And so, yeah, I did not want to fail. I did not see failure as a stepping stone on the path to success in any way. Yeah, it's easy. You know, when you're young, it's easy to fall into the trap of, oh, having the right car and the right things and all that is success. I think as we get further along the line, we start to see what success really is. So where do you think in your life you chose success? Like you chose to be above average. You chose to be different to the norm. I know exactly when that happened. And it definitely wasn't in high school because I was a total slacker.

3:41I skipped school and would sleep through first and second period. I mean, it was a little shaky there for a while, I have to say. but I finally I kind of pulled my act together and I don't know if again I would define what I was doing as successful I got a degree in criminal justice and I was working for a company called lens crafters and to me you know I had never been very entrepreneurial I'd never had a sense of adventure I had never been somebody who really had big goals or dreams to be honest with you. And then my husband and business partner, Richard came to me one day and we had become, we were colleagues, we had become friends.

4:23We, all of our philosophies on everything matched. And he came to me one day and he said, Hey, you know, would you like to write a book with me? And it was the first time I, at first I kind of thought he was crazy. And I'm thinking, I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to say yes. Cause he has no idea what he's talking about. He's obviously a lunatic. So I said, yeah, sure. But, but then I thought, you know what, this is like, could this actually be possible? Like, could we actually do this? And it was the first time that I think I actually saw a vision for myself that wasn't just the nine to five and nothing special and nothing against that, believe me.

4:59But I think quite frankly, I was just kind of settling. I think I certainly was complacent and I just didn't know. And so this person created this vision for me. And all of a sudden, now I was having these amazing goals and coming up with what was possible. And we started attending seminars and we started learning and I got deep into personal development. And that's when my success journey really began. Yeah. When you think about that, it's so easy to not find it, but it's also easy to find a reason to be successful? Yeah, that is really true. Well, I think sometimes it comes down to your, well, first of all, character and who you are as a person.

5:46And I had to become somebody different. I had to fall in love with learning. I had to fall in love with failing. And it was sometimes pretty uncomfortable. I also had to get really used to getting outside my comfort zone. And that was not something that I wanted to do. And by the way, Brad, I'll just add this into the mix too. My goal in life was to never, if you had given me a list of 300 professions, the absolute number one profession that would not be on the list, brick layer would be on the list, ditch digger would be on the list, professional speaker would not have been on the list. I didn't want to do it.

6:24I was terrified and I was fearful and I didn't want to fail in front of an audience. And so, yeah, I just really had to step out of my comfort zone for that one. So let's think about then your method or your formula for success. How do you believe success happens? Well, first of all, I do think that it's a choice. And I think that when you have something, whether it's brought to you or shared with you, some kind of vision that's created for you, you make a decision that, you know what, I'm going to go after this. And you really adopt, and we talk about this a little bit in our fable, go for no, but you adopt a different mindset, which is instead of being someone who simply just pursues the yeses in their life or the success in their life, that you do things to pull yourself out of your comfort zone, you try new things, you push yourself harder than you ever thought possible.

7:25And quite frankly, you have mistakes and you have failures along the way in that path. And I think that is the recipe. And of course, we've all seen that funny meme on Instagram or Twitter or wherever, where it's like what everybody thinks success is. And it's like this straight line and what it really is. It's this super crazy squiggled line. And that's right. That's so true. No one's path is identical, but I'll tell you what is identical obstacles. There is no such thing as achieving success without some failures and without obstacles. And so if you want to talk about what the path to success is, I'll just tell you right now, it's full of obstacles.

8:05It's like, that's the thing. So let's use that things you've talked about. How does failure teach success then? How do those obstacles and mistakes teach us success? Well, I think I kind of, I mean, I've alluded to this. Failure does not only teach success, failure leads to success. We did a fun fable, not go for no. We wrote this little, I had this epiphany one night and I know a lot of people who are like creative can, creatives can relate to this. I was laying in bed one night and I came up with this story and I'm like, you know what? A little story about failure and success. And they're a couple.

8:44They're in kind of like a a long-term, long-running friendship. They've been together forever. And what would happen if success just got tired of failure, always messing things up? Because failure is always screwing things up for success. And success has, I've had it. I've had it with you. And so one day success wakes up and says, you know what, failure, I can't take it anymore. You're banished. I want you to leave. Things are going to be so much better without you. I want you to, so success banishes failure from their little kingdom and failure goes off and has to walk through the dark, scary forest.

9:20And so it's now success is so relieved and so glad that failure is no longer around. And then things start getting boring and there's no innovation and nothing, you know, it's like, wow, it's just, there's nothing interesting happened. And so now success has to go on a little journey to go drag failure back, beg failure to come back. I was wrong. You do add something to this process. And so this was a little video story that we put together. It's probably like 10 minutes long. But I think the point is, so it's a story time for adults, basically. But the point is that, you know, you can't, they're so intertwined, right?

10:00They're so intertwined. And I think one of the key things, though, is you do have to learn from them. And one of the things that Richard and I have done, we don't do it all the time, because if we did, we'd never have our failures are legendary. So there'd be so many things that we'd have to go through, right, of lessons and every learning. But sometimes we have done failure autopsies, where we, I remember one time, specifically, we were at a big event, this was years and years ago, we were at a big event. And we were, we actually weren't speaking in this event, but we were there and we were signing books.

10:31And we had lines of people. And it was this amazing experience. But

10:40autopsy and we wrote down all the things that we learned, all the things that we'd change, what we would do differently next time, how we would maybe package things and price things so we can keep the line moving and not run into all the snafus that we had. And so doing a failure autopsy is a great way to find those lessons. We always say that failure teaches and it does, but not if you're not willing to take a look at it. And the other thing, Brad, is you have to be honest with yourself. You have to be kind of open-minded and you have to be willing to be humble because nothing teaches you humility like failure.

11:19And so when you have a big failure, if you are willing to look at it, if you are willing to glean the lessons, then you will benefit so greatly. In fact, we wrote a book called Million Dollar Book Formula, making sure I have the title of my book, my own book, right? And it was a story of everything that we've learned publishing and writing and publishing books. And the majority of stories in that book are not, oh, how wonderful we are and this happened and that happened. Here's all of our successes. No, no, no. We talked about all of our failures because we know that people will learn from our failures of all the publishing things that we did wrong, the things that we titled, that we learned were not the right way to title a book.

12:00All of those things are so instructive. Love it. You're on the Big Success Podcast. We are going to be back with Andrea Woltz, and we're going to talk about going for no in the next section. Start living your life on purpose and with a plan. As Brad Sugars teaches, you only get 4 ,000 weeks, so learn the principles of success and make the most of your life. Join Brad's Purpose event now and create the life that you deserve. Visit bradsugars.com to attend this program as a standalone or as part of Brad Sugars' Entrepreneurial University. We're way back. Big Success Podcast. Andrea, go for no. Where did the idea, first of all, come from for this fable, for this book?

12:37So it's a story that actually happened to Richard, my husband and business partner, where he learned the secret of going for no. And it was something that we taught. We were teaching to retailers, were our big clients at the time. And so we were teaching the go for no strategy, basically, which fundamentally, I'll just give it away. No big deal. You need to intentionally increase your failure rate in order to be more successful. So in business, we teach people in every business and industry that if they want to be more successful, if they want to hear more yeses, they need to hear no more often.

13:14And there's strategies to do that, obviously. But there was one story, and it was a story about how Richard was selling suits for a living. And the district manager came up to him and said, Richard, what did that customer say no to? And Richard had to admit that everything he sold this customer that he never heard no one time. And then Harold, his district manager said, well, then how did you know he was done? And that was the question that kind of was the light bulb moment for Richard because he realized that he was the one who ended that sale that he never was willing to hear the word no. So anyway, we're teaching this concept and it's getting traction.

13:48And finally, Richard says, you know, I think we should write a book. You know, we had written another book for our clients. So this one actually was our second. And he said, I think we should write a book that's just focused on go for no. And that's what we did. And we just decided to make it a fable. It's about a guy who wakes up in a beautiful house, which belongs to a wildly successful future version of himself. And he's thinking, like, how is this 10-year in the future me so successful? Like, I want to know what this guy did, right? Could you imagine seeing yourself 10 years in the future?

14:26You'd want to know what you did so you could go back and make it happen and repeat it. And so in our book, the secret happens to be go for no. And yeah, so that's how it started. And it was a disaster, Brad. It started so slow. We languished for years. In fact, when we first ordered, the very first order that we placed, we did an offset print run. We got 5 ,000 copies of the book. They were shipped in and we decided that we would send out 500 copies. We bought a mailing list. We sent out 500 copies to VP of sales, VP of training all over the country. And we're thinking that the orders are going to roll in.

15:05The calls are going to come in to hire us. And it's crickets. And nobody, we ended up with one order because Richard was hoping that the post office had actually dropped them in the trash. He thought maybe if they had dropped the books in the trash, that, you know, okay, nobody got them. So it wasn't a failure. They just never arrived. Well, no, that's not the case. They actually arrived because we did get one order. And we struggled and struggled. And it took 10 years for us to get the book from those days onto Amazon's number one sales book, which happened 10 years later. We didn't give up on the book.

15:44We believed in the concept, mostly because we know that it's just a fact. If you are willing to hear no more often, you will hear more yeses. So let's talk about that in sales. What is it about salespeople that they do stop wanting to get no, that they do just want to hear yeses? What's the philosophy shift they need to make then, I guess? Yeah, well, first of all, I mean, of course, yes is super important. But I think a lot of salespeople have been taught and trained that no is somehow bad and that if they get no, that it's the end of the process. And I will tell you, we have talked to hundreds, thousands of top achievers.

16:29And the main difference is that when top performers hear the word no, they think the process is just getting started. When average performers hear the word no, they think the process is over. And I have seen that again and again where people say, I got the no and then that's it. I didn't want to push. I ended the sale. I never went back to that person. I wasn't persistent anyway. and so part of it is just understanding the connection to no and yes but the other part of it is just being willing and I guess this is the other part of go for no is you've just got to be willing to ask more ask more questions build that relationship be willing to face the no instead of talking yourself out of it like people go to a networking meeting back in the day when we, I mean, I think we're getting back to those days, but where we actually see each other in person, but you'd go to a networking meeting and let's say you'd talk to 10 people and you'd collect 10 business cards and then you'd go home.

17:32Now, what should you do? What would a good go for no salesperson do in that moment? Well, a good go for no salesperson would call every one of those 10 people. Why? Because you're not going to make assumptions about what they're going to do, what they're going to decide, whether or not they want to meet with you and continue the conversation that you started at the networking event. If you're a go for yes salesperson, you look at the 10 business cards and you start coming up with assumptions. You say, okay, well, out of these 10, you know what, five of these, I don't think it's going to be a value.

18:02So I'm just going to put those aside. And now you have five left. And now you say out of these five, you know what, three of them, I don't think they were super qualified and the conversations were kind of weird. So I'm just going to put those aside. And now out of 10 cards, now you have two people left. And now you think, okay, maybe I'll go ahead and call these people because maybe I believe based on my conversation that they're going to be a yes. So you've divined that this, you're a go for yes salesperson. I'm only going to reach out to the people and call the people that I think will be a yes, which is doing a disservice to everyone you met.

18:36It was now a total waste of your time. And quite frankly, if any, you know, when you're in sales, you know, you have no idea that those two people are going to be the yeses. they could just as easily tell you no. And the two yeses you wanted are back with the other people that you didn't call. So this is having the courage to hear no. So how do you get that mindset, that courageous mindset? What is it? I mean, is there a switch? Is there a trick? Is there a thing to remember? How do you teach that to people? Well, you're going to love this because it's exactly how we opened the show. And that is, to me, it all has to do, it's all rooted in your definition of failure and success.

19:18If you are simply trying to hear yes, be successful, I don't want to fail, I don't want to hear no, then you are going to struggle because you will always be that go for yes salesperson. You will always be looking for the yeses, focusing on the yeses, a never willing to hear no. And so if your definition of failure or your definition of success rather is that I can fail my way to success, that I'm going to hear no in this process and I'm going to learn from those no's and I'm going to get better, then the switch, as you said, is flipped. Then you simply, you say, I'm going to do it. Now, are there things that hold people back.

19:58Yes, fear is still an issue. And it's, it's, I would be, you know, obviously remiss if I said like, ah, it's easy, you know, the switch has flipped forever. But it is, I would, I will say this, go for no is kind of like a bell that once you ring it, it's hard to unring it. Because you will always have it in your mind of, why don't I just ask? Why don't I just, I'm right here. This is a go for no moment. I should just ask this person the question, hey, do you want to have a meeting? Do you want to set this up? Instead of shying away and saying, well, maybe they're just going to say no, or maybe they're going to think I'm pushy and I'd rather not.

20:38Yeah. The assumed no is much easier than the actual no. So that brings me then to now you've written the next book of when they say no, what is the philosophy there and what are the tactics we can learn from that one? Yeah. So when they say no is it took us 20 years to write that. We've been spending 20 years trying to get people to just fail more. That's fundamentally what we've been doing. Then we finally said, okay, we need to write a book that is a little bit more tactical. So when they say no is what to think, what to say, what to do when you finally do get that no. And it's a bunch of strategies, 41 actually.

21:17And some of them are actual things to say. So, you know, one of my favorites is, you know, if you get a no saying, well, hey, first of all, I'm so glad you made a decision. And you should always receive that no with gratitude and with grace as much as you would receive a yes. I think that thanking somebody for making the decision, congratulating them on making a decision because most people don't make decisions, right? It's always, I'll do it next week. I'll do it next month. And so I'll think about it. I'll think about it. Right. Yeah. So, you know, rewarding that, uh, rewarding them for that decision and then saying now, Hey, just out of curiosity, do you mind if I follow up with you in, let's just say three months, just to see if anything has changed.

22:09And most people will say, no, absolutely. Now, if they say, or they'll say yes, of course. Now, if they say no, I don't want you to follow up with me, then that's what we call a good no. And you can say, okay, well, I wish you well. I wish you all the best. And then now you've saved a little time and you both can go on your way and you can focus on the next person who wants what you have. Very nice. We are right here. We're going to come back in a moment, talk about leveling up. And it's always the thing going for no gets you to more yeses. You're on the Big Success Podcast. I'm Brad Sugars. Andrea Waltz is the co-founder of Courage Crafters, Inc.

22:49and co-author of the bestselling book, Go for No. Yes is the destination. No is how you get there. To learn more about Andrea Waltz, please visit gofornow.com. So, Andrea, I have to ask, over the years, you've obviously trained a lot of successful people. But what is the what's the level up? What's the difference between those who go for good and those who are aiming at great? Yeah, so I think for me, I think it's focus. I've certainly seen it in myself and I've seen it in other people. There's the book called One More Thing. No, the one thing. And I think there's I think there's a powerful idea in that.

23:33And every time that we, Richard and I, have been really successful in our own businesses, it's when we just made a decision and made a choice. We're going to focus on this. Like, for example, a lot of people say like, oh, your book's so successful. It's done so well. Yeah, because you know what? There's lots of things we could have focused on in our business. We could have done a podcast. I've never done one. I know that I'm on a ton of them, but I've chosen this one path. We focus very specifically on our door opening thing is the book. And so I think that when you move from good to great, it's you have a singular mission, a singular focus on whatever your thing is.

24:14It's kind of like I love going to places for food where they specialize in something, right? You don't want to go to the place that has 211 things on their menu. You want to go to the place that is known for their guacamole. And you're like, I'm going to go to this place because it's going to be amazing. And I think that type of attitude is how you go from good to great. So what is it then that separates someone that sets a goal of being, you know, normal or even the million versus the billion? What in your mindset of all? I mean, you've trained in some amazing companies. What's the difference between the million and the billion goal setter or the type of person?

24:54OK, well, I just want to get something out of the way. I am not a billionaire. okay but i love i theoretically i really like the question but if you look at some of the companies you've worked with and the and the goals they've set they've set some amazing goals and then others have said you know normal goals i guess yeah well a couple things to that one i i think is it's so easy to be complacent. And I have been guilty of this when I have in the times where I'm not growing and where my business is stagnant, it's because I've gotten complacent with my own success. And I've seen that in organizations as well, companies that we've worked for.

25:37And then all of a sudden you see, you know, all of a sudden it's like, oh, they've got a new initiative. There's new products. It's like they're reinvigorated and they're going to go out and go big now. And so I think complacency is the thing that kills a lot of things. I think for solopreneurs though, too, leveling up, just scaling up in general, no matter from where you are to whatever level you want to get to is you being the bottleneck, is you being the person. Look at Elon Musk. How does he get everything done? Because he doesn't do everything, even though it looks like he does. He's created this persona of this guy does everything and he's everywhere, but you know that he delegates to really incredible people.

26:23And so the people that I've seen are very successful as well. Trust their team. They're really good at delegating. I am a control freak and I'm working really hard on being better at delegating because with delegation and removing yourself out of the bottleneck is how you move to that next level. You know, dreaming big is a big part of massive success. You've met some amazingly big dreamers in your time. What do you think it is about them that, you know, how did they get there? I think the people that I've met, they allow that vision to pull them. And they've created, they create a vision for themselves about where they want to be, how they want to look.

27:10And they're very good at visualizing. And they tend to be, those same people tend to be incredibly passionate when it comes to learning. And they never stop learning. They never stop growing. They surround themselves with people who are doing the same. And so it just elevates them. Yeah. So let's go to the quickfire round then. How do you succeed? So quick question, quick answers. How do you succeed at relationships? Put the time in. I think time is everything in relationships. And for my husband and I, like we work together all day long, but then we also spend a lot of quality time with each other.