How to Achieve Continuous Goal Accomplishment with Renowned Coach and Psychologist Jamil Qureshi

0:00I think the formula for success, I genuinely believe, is to chase our passion more than our pension. Wow, Jamil Qureshi, psychologist, performance coach, golfer's extraordinaire, six world number ones he's helped create. One of my favorite golfers I worked with was Thomas Bjorn, the Danish golfer, mainly because it was so hard. He's a lovely guy. My wife used to adore him. I used to say, it's because you don't work with him. So I think that it's a universal law in high performance at the moment. The blame looks backwards, responsibility looks forwards. Jamil Qureshi, he's going to give you the strategies today of what you and I can do to increase performance of ourselves and our teams right now.

0:40So, Jamil, your thoughts or your definition of what is success? I've got two definitions for success, actually. So it depends when you ask me and in what context. Yeah. So the first is I think success is about making the connection between two things previously unconnected. That's where success comes from for me. So I've seen this in business and in sport, you know, where people make a connection between two things which was previously unconnected. You might want to think about some of the great innovations, you know, of recent times and become successful businesses. But also in sport, too, where people.

1:21Who was the fastest to get that with you? Like, was it a business person, a sports person? I really know, to be honest. I mean, I think that I think because I think sometimes successful people do this naturally anyway. So they don't necessarily see it as a technique. It's something that they just do. So I think business people realize it better than sports people because in business we do talk about strategic alliances, partnerships and networks and how we can move outside of current thinking. So I think that sports people tend to practice harder and have a level of curiosity and inquiry about how they may do things.

1:57So I think my first definition I'm going to give you is about make the connection between two things previously unconnected. And I think that's increasingly important as a definition in business. When we've got a marketing problem, who do we go to? We've got a marketing. We've got a HR problem. Who do we go to? We've got a HR. These are the people who gave you the problem in the first place. So we increasingly need to think like an outsider. The immigrant will always see things that the citizen is blind to. Let's move outside of current. Well, I think it's why coaching works. There you go. I totally agree with you.

2:33It's a perfect example, isn't it? Because we help people make connections that they couldn't necessarily make on their own. As a coach, you're a connector, aren't you? And then the second definition I'll give you is success is the continued accomplishment of goals, which is personal to the individual. I like the word continued. Yeah, and I think the reason why I say continued is that it isn't a destination. It's a continued accomplishment of goals personal to the individual. It's that journey. And I say personal to the individual because the problem that I find with success is that people always try to define it as a comparison.

3:15So we compare ourselves to our next door neighbor. We compare ourselves to someone we went to school with. Someone who's our height and building in the same team. Or someone on the sales floor. but you know it's it's it's fulfilling our own potential you know not measuring ourselves against others you know and that's why it's personal to the individual yeah it's an interesting one because if i look at i mean let's use golf as an example because you've worked a lot of golfers uh it's easy to compare yourself with another player who's similar style similar nature but i've some of the best golfers i've noticed and you know this better than me but they they go out there with a mindset of a certain score or not a certain player or a certain whatever.

4:01Where do you see that distinction? Because you've broken through a lot of guys and a lot of players in golf. What's that distinction for you? Yeah, so I think playing sport well or being a good leader actually is the same. It's not seeking to impress, it's seeking to express. Be ourselves in the context of our work, whether you're an MD or whether you're a golfer. and I find that the best sports people are themselves in the context of their work. So they express themselves fully on a football pitch or express themselves fully on a golf tournament. So if you do play golf, Brad, do you? I've played golf for a lot of years.

4:40I've practiced golf for a lot of years. So when you play great, it's not good form or a lucky streak or a purple patch. It's how you can play all the time. the majority of the time we're compromised the majority of time whether you're a salesman or a golfer the majority of time we're compromised but when we do it really well it's how we can do it um so it's almost the interference that's um that's getting in the way and that might be because you're comparing yourself to someone else it might be because um your um thoughts are you know in a in a place which is not conducive to you completing upon tasks yeah you know so so we almost need to be you know expressing ourselves fully we need to be um playing any sport or being in business in the way in which we can as individuals making the most of our own talent so what what would you say is your formula for success or what are the ingredients to success well if i knew that if i knew that i'd be as successful as you yeah so um but it's it's you know everyone has a theory on it that's what i love to dive into what people are okay i mean i mean it's a you've asked me a huge question now so i don't know how to answer it it's a really big one isn't it um you know i do you know i think that i think the formula for success i tell the formula for success um i genuinely believe is to you know chase our passion more than our pension you know i i you know i i have such an interest in psychology you know i'm happy to talk to you all day about psychology you know and i used to do business and marketing so i used to play cricket who's a business and marketing um and it things felt like a chore you know i didn't want to do my job you know i didn't want to do what i was doing um and then one day i made a decision um that you know what am i interested in i thought psychology and i it's the only thing i used to talk about anything i read about anything interested me um you know and things sort of did that for me career wise because I started to realise that my vocation became my vacation.

6:50I've spoken for 1 ,500 lovely people today, courtesy of you. Thank you very much. And I've really enjoyed it. And I think that nothing can be achieved, and I'm sure that you think this as well, in your business, that nothing can be achieved without enthusiasm and enjoyment. And no doubt, you get up today still looking forward to developing your business and your people and i think it's you know when you know when you lose that there was a golf psychologist called joss who unfortunately is no longer with us um and he um said that when he used to get up in the morning and he'd been in golf psychology for a long time he'd go to the bathroom and um and i said if he wasn't whistling when he was in the bathroom and he said that he knew it's time to give up his job so um so so there he was having a wee and whistling and um and you know and he said that if I was just whistling the bathroom first thing in the morning, I'm happy to start this day and be part of it.

7:49The day that I've stopped whistling is the day that, you know, I know. Got to move on to something else. So speaking of golf, any favorite people that you've coached in that or anyone that got it real quick? Yeah. Do you know, golf is the hardest one. Yeah, golf is the hardest one. So there's loads of favorites. But interestingly, you know, I think getting someone from number three in the world to number one in the world is easy. So because they're raw talent, you know. It's already there. Yeah, they're great. So my favorite people to work with have been people who are 500th in the world and losing their card.

8:27And then you get them to sort of 300th, 200th, you know, and they manage to get their kids through school, put a bit of money in the bank, you know, and then lose their careers having, you know, created a safety blanket for themselves. And so, you know, I think taking something from good to great, you know, can be quite easy. You know, getting from something that isn't working to, you know. Okay to good is a lot harder. Yeah, and I think that, you know, so I've had a lot of pleasure from that. One of my favourite golfers I worked with was Thomas Bjorn, the Danish golfer. Yeah. Mainly because it was so hard.

8:59So he's a – He just didn't catch it as quick? He's a lovely guy. He's a lovely guy, and I love Thomas very, very much. my wife used to adore him and I used to say it's because you don't work with him and and and he shall we have time for a quick story so first time I ever worked with Thomas as a coach I'd like your thoughts on it so first time I ever worked with Thomas was the USPGA, he never worked with him before and he said walk the practice round with me so I walked the practice round with him the USPGA, he was practicing with and Phil Mickelson, Patrick Harrington and I can't remember who else.

9:44Paul McGinley, I think. And so it's two days before the tournament and he's hitting it sideways. Dreadful. I literally can't hit it. He's effing and blinding. And he threw his water bottle at Kenny's caddy twice and dubbed with it over his head. And then he turns around to me and turns around to Ken. I hadn't even spoken to him at this stage. But he turns around to Ken and says, you're rubbish and tooks at me you're rubbish that nine rubbish they said i'm gonna feign injury my knee's hurting i'm gonna say i'm out of here i'm not gonna embarrass myself on the world stage so you need to get your flight home you're getting your flight home i'm out and then so then yeah he stomps off like a bear with a sore head down the bear way to find the ball which has gone wherever and i said to ken ken had worked for two years and a cancer what you know what do you do what you know and ken smiled and then and then whispered to me he said nothing it's got 66 written all over it and um this great score don't worry and then thomas goes out birdies the first five holes of the uspga loses on the last hole to phil mickelson finishes second turns around to me and says same time next week no thanks no i did it for another two years but um But, you know, isn't it incredible that, you know, that he goes from being like that, and that's obviously his preparation.

11:14So I think that, you know, one of the reasons I say Thomas is one of my favourite people is because it was so, you know, unfathomable. Yeah. I mean, I remember one of my kids' friends played the PGA Tour, or the dad, and there was a time when he was just not making the cuts. And he sat with me at Christmas time, and I said, well, what's your goal each week? And he said, my goal is to make the cut. And I said, dude, that's the dumbest goal ever. Your goal is to win. Yeah, dreadful. Making the cut is a byproduct of your goal. You know, it just happens automatically. And I think that's a big thing.

11:51What's your thoughts on the relationship between success and failure? I always think that failure is part payment towards success. It's a really important point, this actually. I think sports people get this better than business people, I'm afraid to say. So the price of success is always paid in full and in advance. So you don't get to number one in the world and start making mistakes. You're in a successful business from day one. It doesn't work like that. So the price of success is always paid in full and in advance. so um i think the best sports people and business people um you know can fail it doesn't make them a failure or they can make mistakes doesn't make them a mistake and by detaching the action from the person gives us our best learning opportunity so success and failure you know shouldn't become attitudes and uh mindsets they should just become outcomes both of which give us an equal opportunity to learn.

12:56Who was the hardest worker and paid that price really well first? Sports people? Because the F1 guys have to pay it in advance. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they do. I think that, you know, it's a tricky one to think about a sport where, do you know what, I think golf is a good one. I think there was a time when, well, Phil Mickelson was second in the world and he played 38 tournaments or whatever and he'd won two, won three. So, you know, if you're second in the world, but you're losing the vast majority. Now, when Tiger Woods was, you know, the best golfer that's ever lived, you know, he was winning less than half the tournaments he played.

13:35Yeah. So, therefore, he was losing one out of two. You know, so... Golf and tennis are the two hardest ones in that you lose the majority of tournaments that you enter. You might win the most... You might win in tennis more matches, but you still lose ultimately. Yeah, and it's too hard. You can liken this, can't you, to a sales environment where you can lose nine times, nine pitches, nine phone calls, and you win big on the tens. And to not fall into the pattern of believing today's a bad day, I'm not doing things right, this isn't working for me, and to believe in the uniqueness of each event and again I'll give you a golfing tip get your handicap down I think that some of the best golfers I work with have a uniqueness of the event and what I mean by that is that you can toss a coin heads or tails and it comes up tails nine times in a row and it's obviously still 50-50 on the 10th occasion or whether it's heads or tails there's no patterns you know the patterns exist in our head in that sense so so you know the best golfers will stand on the first tee and and hit it sideways stand on the second tee and hit it sideways stand on the third tee and think this could be the best tee shot I've played because it's unique it's different you know so you know so believing in the uniqueness of each event and the possibilities not the probability the possibilities a really interesting space to be in Being open-minded.

15:15Yeah. I had a great golfer once say, I get seven bad shots a round. I don't know when they're going to come. And when I get one, I go, oh, six left. Yeah. You know, and that was his philosophy. Cricket, I want to bring up cricket just for a second. Because Mark Waugh used to say his ability to concentrate for 10 seconds at a time, days on end, was sort of his biggest skill. Does someone learn that skill? or is that because when you work with the Ashes guys, I mean, with the Playing Us Aussies, and thank you for working with them and helping them beat the Australians. Not really. How does that differ from working with a golfer or is it the same?

15:58Well, do you know what? I mean, I wouldn't say there's a similarity necessarily sport-wise, and I wouldn't say there's a similarity person-wise, to be honest, in regard to, you know, I tend to work with individuals or units. so you know whether you're a golfer or a cricketer you know you may have a different need so someone might need to focus more so i mean you need to focus a little bit less too intense and um you know over motivated you know or someone just needs to sort out their goals you know the you know what they're trying to achieve and how they're trying to achieve it so whether you use um a business or whether you use golf or cricket as your vehicle um tend to work with the individual or the unit or the team not necessarily the sport you know as it were so um so i'd say there's a difference in when um when uh i was doing this bit in with some of the cricketers um it was based upon decision making how to make the best decisions so um so how do we make decisions how do we make the best decision because often in sport um be it football cricket golf there's a there's a there's a one bit were a defining moment which creates momentum.

17:08And it's usually, I think it was Jeff Boycott, when you think you're doing well as a team, add two wickets to the score. And it's two bad decisions, potentially. Potentially. So how do we make better decisions? Shot selection, bowling changes, what we choose to... How do we make better decisions? I think that one thing I'll give to you on this is to understand our decision-making process. That's how we make better decisions. So many of us will decide whether we've made a good decision based upon the outcome. So we make a business decision and we think, oh, that's good. Well, that was bad. But we only know the outcome retrospectively.

17:53So it's actually not a good way to know whether we're making good decisions because you can make a good decision and have a bad outcome. or you can make a bad decision and have a good outcome. I've worked with leadership teams who have confused luck for genius. What a great decision. Thankfully, the competition screwed up and the market went right. So I think that the only thing that we have got is the intrinsic quality of our decision-making process. And I don't think enough people think about how they think. so um so how do we make decisions at uh what your input did i have what bias or prejudice what did i omit who would have thought differently and what evidence would they have used to think differently or to make a different decision so i think that once we start to deconstruct a little bit we don't we'll never give ourselves the best chance of winning we're never sorry we're never guarantee winning but we can give ourselves the best chance blame and responsibility backwards forwards take me through that thinking because i think it's really important yes so i think that it's a universal law in high performance at the moment the blame looks backwards responsibility looks forwards um we can blame anyone and everyone for non-performance we can blame compliance governance regulation yeah new technologies health and safety price in forever a whole lot um i think the most successful people that i work with have genuine accountability real ownership so um you know the best footballers you know when they're 15 or 16 um yeah they're practicing on a friday night when their friends are getting drunk you know they're practicing on a saturday morning when their friends are having a lie-in you know and that's ownership and so accountability so you know i think it's very easy at the moment to be blindsided by complexity uncertainty in probability they're all the things that you know we're living with in the world at the moment so um i think the key is to take responsibility and ownership for driving the best outcomes and best opportunities no matter what our circumstance you know and that's the matter how does one get out of blame though if you've traditionally done that how do you move yourself yeah i think like you know again good news and bad news for you you know the good news is it can be done i mean the bad news is not easy you know we get into thinking patterns that way is mental models habitual thinking you know and i think that you know maybe a series of questions that you stick on a post-it you know on your in your office or you know on by the side of the bed you know so what you know what could i have done differently how could i have changed this you know and make it more introspective about our role in things you know the worst thing that you know i i hear you know in business and in sport is you know if it wasn't for them if it wasn't like you know it's just like a simple way in which they do it around here you know or they often you hear it about you know this isn't my idea it's actually come from head office you know and you know and uh well that that how do you shift the whole team to responsibility yeah and i think that you know i think that we all have a sphere of influence every single one of us you know so some larger than others but you know it's a matter of um of being with people you know who um who can understand coach cascade tell stories you know about the things which are important you know and so therefore hopefully inspire and motivate others to do the same so no i think don't get if you're in a large organization for example you know it may not be possible to make significant cultural change across you know geographies you know and thousands of people but we've got a sphere of influence and there are some people who we engage with who we can inspire motivate provoke and stimulate you know and i think that it's our responsibility to do that and that's and if we are taking responsibility to do that there is always a reaction to an action you know so you know we're giving ourselves the best opportunity you once said uh as a coach it's not about you know telling them where to look it's about asking them questions yeah and that tell me more about that yeah so you know i think i think training you know and coaching you know mentoring all these things are different uh you know training is what you do to animals i think i'm not sure we should be doing it necessarily unless it's technical skill sets for people yeah but um but i think coaching is great you know and i think that um i'll go as far as saying actually that um peer anything works peer recognition peer challenge peer coaching and i think in organizations and you'll know more about it than me that i think in organizations there's not enough peer coaching you know you often get a senior a term who may you know involve themselves in coaching but to have a team of people who didn't coach each other is amazing is incredibly powerful um and you know so i think that um i think coaching is not about giving people new skill sets.

23:04It's about them understanding the skill sets they've already got, you know, understanding who they are and how they may realise more of their potential. So, you know, it's not necessarily about giving people the right answers, it's more about asking the right questions and recognising, allowing them to recognise some of the things that they're doing well. I sometimes say to people and if I'm working with a leadership team, for example, and I'll say to the leadership team, remember the last time 10-15 people in front of me so when was the last time that um any of you came out of a meeting um and one of the peers one of the people in this room stopped you before you went to your next meeting and then grabbed you by the arm and said before you go can i just say i like being in these type of meetings with you because when this sort of conversation happens in them you do these three things which are really good and i guarantee you now guarantee you now that in sort of any organization very rarely if any does someone say oh yeah we do that um i maybe a handful of times in the years i've been doing this but how powerful would it be for a peer to say before you go off can i just say that you handle this bit much better than me and i'll tell you why you do incredible so you know that gift of self-awareness i sometimes think with training you know we rob people of the experience of discovery you know and we you know you know we you know we you know we tell people how to do stuff you know well much more so than you know allow them to experientially at times discover for themselves a way of doing things which generates a better outcome yeah we we at action coach for years have had the philosophy of go watch the video but then come back and have the discussion about what did you learn how is it going to apply what do you want to do where do you want to go and I think your term self-awareness and you use that a lot in in what you teach is really important how does one become more self-aware without calling you or me like how do we do that on a day-to-day or a week-to-week for ourselves yeah so I think that um I think time and space is important you know we're all so busy that's the problem we've got meetings that finish at 10 o 'clock when's your next meeting 10 o 'clock you know and our job often in meetings is to get through them you know that you know i tell when was a lot yeah we probably sort of saying back to back meetings before you thought you know get these two out of the way i can get on with some work you know and you know we don't necessarily understand the difference between productivity and activity no and what's productive is to take time out yeah and it's funny because whenever i work with like business people and i say to them how do you get more done in a day how do you perform better they say give me more hours give me extra pair of hands i tell them that's what they say and when i say to super performers people perform at really high levels like astronauts or these medical teams that do eight hour operations or even premiership publishers so how do you get more of yourself they say more time off complete opposite and yeah realizing that recovery realizing that taking that time out there was a really important part for self-reflection a term for introspection self-awareness thinking about how we could have done things better or differently you know and the answer is not to pedal faster you know if we want to find out more about ourselves you know it's about taking that time for contemplation taking that time to deconstruct yet uh you know to think about our part within things to think about how people react and respond to how we were and what we said and did you know and to you know to close down our environment you know and make it more about us you know and they um and the response that people have had to how we have been within our projects within our work, within our team.

26:57Yeah, I know that, and it's just my methodology, when I started journaling, it made me reflect on my days. That self-awareness, self-reflection thing is a big part of doing that. Is there any other day-to-day techniques someone can do other than just taking time out? Yeah, well, it's really interesting that you said about the journaling, actually, because it's proven that if you write things down, is better than talking about them. There's a magic when you put pen to paper. Not telling it. Yeah, certainly. When you're talking to a counsellor, you would talk about all sorts of things. That's what you would do.

27:39Whereas when you write things down and you can't write as much as you would say, therefore you almost focus on the important bits. So, you know, you can summarise the things which are most important I'll write down, the other bits, but I'll go off on a tangent and I won't bother with. so um so i think a couple of things um we can play with our character you know there's a um a couple of techniques on this that you know many people who are successful will write lists on what they're going to do today now when was the last time we wrote a list on who we're going to be today no we don't at um so uh you know an interesting one is to um have a look at your tasks and then put a character type next to each one i've got three difficult customer calls here they're really difficult i don't want to make them and usually what happens is that we look at our list that's exactly how we think and a conversation with ourselves ends there i don't want to make them yeah or these are going to be horrible i'd get them out of the way just do it it's going to be awful um whereas if we write down those three things on our to-do list and next to it we write open-mindedly or optimistically and um then we got a brainstorm with our team later enthusiastically or quietly I usually take over so quietly I say what so what if we write down a character type next to our task list well we're more likely to get it done that's scientifically proven but we're also more likely to do it with a personality type which gets the most out of that task but we also get a chance to find out about ourselves because I couldn't sit quietly in that meeting you know or what does quietly look like for me so you know as a brainstorm I'm usually first out the side and everyone else closes down so what would it look like to me and so once we start and what do I mean by optimistically with these calls these are dreadful calls so we get a chance to think about ourselves in the context of what we're writing down and there's a nice little technique as well called act as if and this is a lovely technique and act as if is to become what we are become what we wish to be to become it so and this is thinking in the present tense that's what it is so um if i was the most um bravest person in the team if i was and everyone in the team knows that i'm bravest we're using that as an example um where would i sit in my next meeting um what questions would i ask what would i be listing out for what would i be saying what would i be doing how would I be feeling if I was once you start to play the role of if I was and I've done this with golfers before you know golfers who are 50th in the world I said to them that you know where do you want to be and they said I want to be 5th in the world okay imagine that you're it now if you're 5th in the world now what are you going to have for lunch today is it different to what you would have at 50th what are you going to practice later was it different to what you would have practiced at 50th and I guarantee an ale they'll change loads of things and not one of them they would not be able to make at 50th in the world.

30:52Simple things like, do you know what, I was going to drink alcohol tonight but if I was fifth best golfer in the world, I'd drink water tonight because I want to win and become number one. And, you know, it's always that, you know, once we imagine that we are it now and what would it look like and how would we be, you can almost grow into it. Yeah. I know for business-wise and even for us at Action Coach, we reset our goals from hundreds of millions to billions and we realized that we went from great to actually shite. Because if you're comparing yourself to other companies at hundreds of millions, we're great.

31:30But if we're comparing ourselves to companies that are billions, we're not there yet. So we have to every day use that technique of, well, hang on, would a billion dollar company make this decision no a billion dollar company wouldn't go left they'd go right yeah um so yeah it works in sport it works in business yeah if we were that what yeah if yeah and it's funny really i mean again let's go back to golf but you know i've worked with some golfers i want to be bolder yeah i want to be braver and more aggressive who wanted to be bolder and brave um well i shall see what i can tell you um so i think that's um i think david howell mentioned it yeah right and saying that you know that want to be brave more aggressive attack the pin more no the best way to do it is to play with two balls in your practice round and play the shot you would have played and um if you were the bravest golf on this golf course what shot would you have played you know which was different to that you know and um and so But again, that comparison with, you know, how they are and what it would look like if they were different.

32:35Yeah, you mentioned Phil earlier. Phil attacked. Yeah, absolutely. Every time. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, and that was his brand, you know. And do you know what? It's funny because we talked about self-expression. You know, that's who he was, you know, and Ian Botham played cricket like he had his Friday nights out, you know, and it was smoshmuckling, you know. It was charismatic, you know. And, you know, Steve Moore, analytical, methodical, tactical, you know, and thinking cricketer. So, yeah, I think that once we do something which is close to who we are, you know, I think we have the best chance, you know, of becoming rounded, you know, in the way in which we approach our tasks.

33:19Jamil, ambition going to achievement, let's relate that from good to great type thing because we've got ambition, we're doing good. How do we transition that to amazing to great? Well, you know, I always say the best way to remain number one is to imagine you're number two. You know, so, you know, I think we struggle often with what I call the curse of incumbency. You know, people are really successful, it's really working, you know, so let's maintain it. You know, but if better never stops, then we should be looking to continually improve. And I think that experimentation is key. So a good example of this is Tiger Woods.

34:02So Tiger Woods reconstructed his or deconstructed his swing and reconstructed it when he was number one in the world. So how many organizations, how many business owners, how many entrepreneurs will have a good thing going in the present and then realize they need to give it up to be successful in the future? yeah it's counterintuitive isn't it that um yeah if it's not broke don't break that's right and i always say if it ain't broke break it let's you know because we need to constantly reinvent a what's the difference between like you know you look at whether it's the f1 guys you worked with or the individuals in the golfing arena what's the difference between one who wins one major and one who just continuously can win majors what's the distinction in their brain or how do they yeah think different there is there is a distinction yeah i know so many people yeah on the european tour who won one tournament and you think they would open up the floodgates and it doesn't that's the one they win and then they lose their card you know soon after that's the end of their career um and it feels like a monkey off the back you know i've done it you wipe my brow you know and you know i've done that so i think that if you look at people who do very well over a long period of time and they're purposeful now objectives and targets are very useful and make you successful purpose is different purpose is a reason for being it's a reason to get out of bed in the morning and in my experience you know the people with purpose are the ones who have the careers that you just talked about you know of continued success so um the now Now, here's the thing, that purpose is never achieved.

35:50It's attained on a daily basis. So many people think, no, I'm purposeful. I want to win the tournament. I want to get the business to however much. Yeah. But that's not purpose. That's objective. Exactly, yeah. So purpose is never achieved. It's attained on a daily basis. Who was the best that you ever worked with on purpose? Well, this is exactly why Tiger Woods keeps working. It's why Warren Buffett keeps working. like Brad Sugars keeps working because it's achieved on a daily basis and the best that I found with being purposeful the best I found was Darren Clark actually was incredibly purposeful yeah he was he had some real challenges in his career and personal life but you know one major tournament was late in his career because of his ambition to make the most of his talent that he had at that time.

36:49So, you know, he would play fully. So I think that Darren Clark was, you know, incredibly purposeful. And I think that sometimes you don't necessarily see that, but I think he was. I think Teddy Sheridan, the great love of the game, you know, and the love of scoring goals, a love of being in the right position at the right time, incredibly purposeful. How did you, like, because you've helped some people find that purpose over and above performance. You've helped them find purpose. How do you do that? Yeah, so, you know, I think that. In one minute or less. Yeah, tricky questions today. I think we need to peel away the layers.

37:33You know, I think that, you know, it's the thing about the Kaizen technique, isn't it, asking why five times. I'll give you a quick example that there was and it relates to the question you asked me there was a manager who was working with one of his team members and one of the team members came up to him and said I want more money usually at this point there's a fight we can't give you more money, why are you asking for more money but it said the leader said to his report why do you want it what would you spend it on and uh and he said i'd spend it on holidays is i wanted to go away to thailand for three weeks i want to go to you know australia for three weeks i i want to go to spain for a week i want longer holidays they said why it's all because i invested in this company when when it was growing and you know i put a lot of time into it so i missed the kids growing up you know and now i relate to them better i want to spend more time with them i want to i want to go home for longer and then this the leader said to the guy he said i can't give you more money but i can move you to headquarters and we'll cut on your commute time by one hour a day you know by next week we'll give you a day a week with your children back he bit his hand off for it true story he bit his hand off for it can you and he didn't want more money at all he wanted more time with his children you know and i think that when i start speaking to people about why they play the game why they set up a business No entrepreneur ever sets up a business because they want a shared services function.

39:10Because I want HR in the future. I'd like a group violence function. That's why I'm doing this. People start up a business for a reason for being, a reason to fulfill a need. And then success can breed a whole lot of overhead. And what I have part of that overhead is what we lose in regard to our purpose, our reason for being. Sometimes I think you can peel away the layers. That's why, Five Time, why do you enjoy part of the business? Why do you feel more alive when you're doing this? And once we start to peel away the layers, and start to find out the bits that are motivating us, not because of our skill set, because of who we are as human beings.

39:52I just enjoy this bit, and I like doing this bit. It's who I am. That's when we can become more purposeful. Well, hey there, and thanks for listening. I've noticed that 78 % of you are brand new, which means you haven't hit the subscribe button yet. By subscribing, you help us bring on even better guests, better quality content, and serve you better with even more podcasts. So please hit that subscribe button. It only takes a second. It makes a huge difference. If you support us, we're going to support your success and help you achieve big success together. One of the things I've heard you say is part of your job is to help people change their mind.

40:32tell me more about that and help me understand how that will take them to where they want to be so I think that I think that we need new perspectives to create new opportunities and new possibilities so we are limited by what we believe to be true and we've all a viewpoint we have our customers, we've got a viewpoint of geographies that we work in a viewpoint of the economy blockchain, AI, AR. Unfortunately, we prove ourselves right, even when we're wrong. So if we can challenge what we believe to be true, then we can perhaps see the same evidence through a new perspective. And that allows us to make new connections.

41:21Can someone do that on their own, or do they need a coach to do that? You know, well, I mean, I would, I think that if it happens on their own, it's usually some sort of provocation that does it. So it's life changing or, and that might be not just necessarily the death of a loved one or birth in the family. It might be a movie you watch. So, you know, it is possible. And I think coaches are great at facilitating that, you know, creating a new perspective. It catalyzes the process. but when you think about it you know that you know it's always better to be disrupted from the inside than from the outside yeah yeah we all found that that's a deep statement now we we all found that a few years ago didn't we so um you know so i think that what we need to do you know is to is to constantly i'll give you a technique on this at um is to constantly challenge what we believe to be true now there's something called gamification and i urge all business owners to do this so um and some companies do it really well emirates airlines do it really well i um i worked with them for a few years and they're very good at it and gamification is playing games yeah so um so what i'll do is i'll grab 20 people from their sales team and i'll chuck them into a room and i'll say from tomorrow um all the seats are given away for free you can't make any money by selling a seat how are you going to make money um they'll come up with 50 new income streams guarantee it.

42:47Some will say, all right, then why don't we sell pilot time? It's the only airline in the world where you buy the pilot by the hour, $150 an hour, longer you fly, the more you pay. They'll talk about doing a deal with the government at Air India, part government owned, or sponsorship on the side of our aircraft seen by billions of people every year. Why don't we sell sponsorship? They'll come up with all sorts of ideas. Now, what's happening here, and I'll cover 20 people next day and I'll say from tomorrow three times more expensive, how are you going to sell? Or I'll say, you've got no marketing budget.

43:22What are you going to do? You've got an unlimited marketing budget, and you've got 15 minutes to spend it. Here's a pen, guys. Where would you spend your money? It's unlimited on marketing. If you had two days to do this proposal, not two months. If this bit of compliance didn't exist. So by playing these games, people think divergently. They move outside of the parameters, the mental trauma lines that hold them in place so how this works for an individual or how this works for a small team is to do exactly that well i'm going to call a meeting on wednesday it's an hour long on wednesday and six of my staff um if i could only invite two people to that meeting um which two would i invite and how would i get them to tell the others what they need to know or involved them in that if i only had 10 minutes for that meeting not one hour um what would i get across in that 10 minutes if i couldn't have a meeting and i could only do it by email and um what would i do and how would i ask for input so by playing these games all it does is give us a little bit of insight into how we can think differently to do differently or get differently so you know this and the more creative you can be the better so you know so i sometimes will work with bankers and i'll say to bankers that um you know from tomorrow everyone lives forever so all human beings live forever i said so can we just look at this particular strategy or plan in the context of that someone will say things like you know well it were 25 years on this particular product like a mortgage but why would it be 25 years if everyone lives forever then how maybe people would retire first and educate second.

45:05You know, so then what happens is that someone will say, because you start divergently and someone will bring it convergent, someone will say, this is a really interesting point because we're not living forever, but we are living longer. If we are living longer and women live longer than men, so should this product be different for women? And, you know, maybe we could look at marketing this to women. So they're actually going from a really silly concept, we all know, forever, to something which is now completely different to their competition in relation to what they're offering because they started off in this really creative space.

45:42Yeah, yeah. Final question, and I always ask this one, what's the best advice or the best quote you ever got on the subject of success? One is the hardest question you've asked, I think, so far. You know, when you try and narrow something down to one, it is the toughest. Do you know what? I think if I'm being personal, very personal, I think life is about timing. The best advice I've ever been given is life is about timing. And, you know, I was told to invest in property aged 18. I didn't listen. I mean, no, I was told to practice harder. I used to be quite good at cricket. I didn't listen. you know i completely reinvented my career in my mid-30s you know i'm only doing this now you know as since i was 33 34 um you know and you know someone said to me the other day said that you know i got an 18 year old daughter and now what she wants to do can you advise her i thought you know what at 35 i was unemployed and i was homeless as you know and now i found myself doing this and now i can't advise her so i think that life is about time and you sort of get it when you get it.