How to Build a $100M Brand When You Can't Afford Expensive Advertising

0:00People did feel like they're becoming a part of it. So then in turn, we started being a lot more upfront, honest and raw. Once I had sustainability and the money, I stayed that way. Everything that I want to be to be the best man that I could be is what I focus on now. All of these profound moments in my life came from what the business has taught me.

0:20Brad Sugars:So Danny, your first hundred million, did you notice? Was it a celebration? Did it just roll through? How did that happen? You know, I've heard that there's people that it doesn't affect or they don't even notice it. I very much don't notice it. I was going to do absolutely anything possible that year to get there. And so it was like, it was a milestone in my life. I actually have, like, I have a tattoo right here that it looks like a dollar kind of, and it says a hundred million and got like a, you know, a special necklace. Hang on. Did you get it beforehand or did you have the tattoo? No, no, it had to be after.

0:53i remember we were like so close to it and it was like you know it's coming down to you know the end

0:58Brad Sugars:of holiday really and we're looking at it just like oh so close so close come on it's almost like i want to buy a thousand dollars worth of my own stuff just so we take over yes these conversations were definitely had so let's go back then because obviously huntington beach the beginning i i guess though that culture of huntington definitely had an impact on the start absolutely so so really the impact from the start is that i grew up in anaheim california so that's where a lot of the influence of like lowrider culture and stuff came from got like you know introduced like say the elements of hip-hop and whatnot at an early age um now you fast forward a little bit and um i go to like south orange county later um in like in high school and then right when i graduated went to huntington so it was really a culmination of of everything all the cultures mixed in there i kind of i took a nice little tour of orange county you know so it was taking all the subcultures that i had been a part of and then basically expressing you know at an older age for one probably that i miss them you know being younger oh yeah you know and then and And then for two, just the expression of being able to be a part and be able to pull creativity from the passion and the love for those cultures.

2:18Brad Sugars:Yeah. So one of the things I don't think a lot of people realize is that to build a business this big, the culture is really important. Yes. And you've done an amazing job of the culture, not just being your team, but being your customer base. Right. On purpose, plan, did it just happen? How did you get that culture in your customers? So I think in the beginning, the thought was I was going to sell to people who were me. Now, somewhere along the way, I learned that a great marketer can market to anybody. You should know how demographics move, how they feel, what they want, what they value, what their daily life looks like.

3:02if it's someone that's you know like i like i use this example from my team i tell them like you know you might not be mormon gilbert mom but i you need to know as a professional how exactly that looks like on a daily what do they value what can you sell to them so there was definitely a turning point for that which you know which allowed us this you know scale customer base but But it was very important and it's still very important now, staying authentic and genuine to what we're truly rooted in. But now, given the tools and everything that we know along the way, it's the ability to speak to all people.

3:43Brad Sugars:But you have, let's just say, they kind of fanatical, some of your clients. Hundreds of pieces. Like not one Dixon shirt. They got hundreds of the dang things. we've we've definitely somehow instilled this this um culture of supply demand collectability you know we we make funny memes all the time that it's like got my first dixon and it's like two months later and there's this closet like full you know and it's a it's a great thing you know and that i feel like we should do like an alcoholics anonymous a dixon anonymous video one day You know, I bought my first Dixon shirt and now I have 783 of them.

4:26Brad Sugars:I think I'm going to get divorced. Yeah, here I am getting divorced. She wants to take half my Dixons. But that's the culture that you've bred. And I really want to bring it back to business side of it because that culture is a part of what holds your company and your customers together. Right. it's uh you know i can't say in the beginning we set out to do um like the limited supply and i've i have admitted this a couple times you know it's like a lot of people tout our businesses being like wow that was a great model and in the beginning though it was because we didn't have the money yeah so i could only make 100 because i didn't have the lack of supply you know and and so like but you kept the model though and we'll come back to the model because i think there is some genius in that for a lot of people to learn from absolutely right um but going back to the culture thing it's pervaded into your hiring as well yes i so yeah that that goes two fold like i i love us having a very multicultural and very diverse workplace and it's great because you know how half of our employees don't look like don't look like they would even wear dixon or they don't want to or whatever.

5:43They're very expressive and creative in themselves. And so it's just a place that oozes so much inspiration and creativity. And so I really enjoy fostering their ability to create and seeing what comes out of them. And that in itself has created the culture inside.

6:01Brad Sugars:Another quarterly of the culture for you is exactly that word, quality. You've stuck to that. Your guns are very... we do great right or we don't make it type thing tell me more about how that happened so the the quality kind of comes from an obsessiveness of like part of like my ocd is actually like so when i when i was looking at flannels first time i could not wear the flannels because i would wash them once and they would wrinkle so bad that i i couldn't walk outside my door like i i have i can't do that yeah and it's like and so i wanted to make something that wasn't out there and and in doing that it in turn kind of fell apart fell on all of our products that way like we're not going to make it unless it solves a problem you know find a problem in the market and fix it due to you know it's not like everyone's super ocd about it but if i start the product there i know that eventually when they wear something like that they will appreciate it and realize that nothing else will.

7:08You don't want to go back once you have quality. It's like, I'm not going back.

7:12Brad Sugars:No, no, no. I'm sorry, but the target flannel is not going to be for me ever again. And even more, that has segued into different things where, you know, we'll have so completely made and it's not abnormal for me to completely scrap a category after we've already made it because it's just that trust that you build with your customer there. they trust me that everything that we put out that they can't touch and feel right away because they're on the internet for the most part they trust that it's going to be good it's going to be quality and if we're making it it's going to solve some problem that whatever they have that might look the same that it doesn't have the problems it has and so breaking that trust in business with your consumers i think it's a very very dangerous thing that's where you see you know, that juxtaposition when people turn a corner and they stop paying attention to, you know, to those little things.

8:04Brad Sugars:Yeah. It's, it's easy as you get bigger in business to forget the details and hand it off to someone else. And just, no, if you don't require, if you don't bring people on who have the same level of OCD you do, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It gets to that thing. So I want to go back to then, uh, you talk about being online, right? And one One of the things that I see businesses think that, oh, my social media is to attract new customers. A lot of your social media is more built around making sure your existing customers feel part of the tribe almost. And that they can relate to other customers.

8:46Brad Sugars:And, yeah, it brings more purchases, all those sorts of things. But did you set that up that way? Did you bring someone in that saw it with that vision? how did you decide to keep the tribe mentality sort of thing so what i didn't know then but what i know now i would i would answer this saying um i growing up i was always someone that like could be somewhat like lone wolf i kind of like float around i know a lot of people but i was never the one that really fit in to having that one group of friends that were all together from kindergarten to college and we go to fraternity together blah blah that's that's never been my thing i'm i'm kind of oddball like i was odd man out always and like what do people crave one thing that we all have in um in common as humans is that we we crave love we and in that you create uh acceptance or being a part of something so i essentially was like building this world for myself where i can exist and then in turn knowing that there are several black sheeps out there that they're going to feel the same, you know?

9:51And so as you're building on it, you started seeing that like, that people did feel like they're becoming a part of it. So then in turn, we started being a lot more, a lot more upfront, honest and raw and showing the behind the scenes. And even when I do speaking engagements or that I've done in the past, you know, after I watch everyone that's up there that touts everything that they've done, I'll walk up there and say, I'm not going to waste your time. I'll give you 45 minutes about what I had fucking did wrong. Yeah. You know, because because that's what I feel like they they really don't hear.

10:25And that I didn't have access to hearing that when I was building. And I look it up like, you know, on the Internet, like clothing line burnout or like quick success, sudden failure.

10:38Brad Sugars:Everyone thinks that with the Internet, the way it is, that everything's perfect. Like no one shows that hard stuff behind the scenes. Like, let's go back a ways. Making your first million. How hard? Oh, gosh. You know what? I think that was when it crept up and I, you know, almost like, oh, my gosh. Like, I can't believe we got there. I remember I got a bank statement back and we had a million in the bank. And I was like, oh, my. Holy shit. This is what I've always dreamt of. Like, it doesn't feel the same. Becoming a millionaire. there it's a very different thing than what you pictured when you're young right but um but it was it was incredible it was um that was kind of a oh my gosh i did it moment but it was just as how much did it revolve around you that first million like your energy your effort your everything i was everything at that point yeah you know i think um by that time i might have had like two employees and if i'm gonna be honest like they would probably like paid under the table we'll edit that bit out later don't worry about it you know if anyone comes in here you don't work here you know you're my cousin yeah it was we don't look the same but we're related yes i think that it felt sudden though because it really realistically my first year of doing it full time where it was like you know safety net is gone and you have to like we're like but you're down backside up at that point that you're not really looking at the goals and everything you just go absolutely it's just like you're kind of trying everything it's like what can what can we do to get here get here or whatever yeah at that time i didn't really have number expectations and i think a lot of times i get asked like did you ever think that you would hit this spot And to be honest with you, I didn't know that it was possible.

12:39Yeah.

12:39Brad Sugars:So I did. There's a reason for this pod. Yeah. I'm 100 % clear with you and everyone listening that people seem to think that you got to be like Mark Zuckerberg to go and do this stuff. Right. But normal businesses in normal products do this all the time. And I don't think we get it that it's normalized going for 100 million. It's something that we can do. Absolutely. so 10 million how did you have to build your team and how did you have to make it different to go from a mil to 10 mil so mil to 10 mil was it was a tough time for me um i think that we quickly went to five and like it was like one to five next year you know and then and then five to ten actually happened really quick too i thought that that was going to be like a a lull but i just hammered down i kept my head down and kept going um but i i now go by something and in hearing this in my earlier days but practice it more like the day that you the day that you believe your own hype you're just you're done yeah and i went i suffered some of that at that time and and like i didn't know what i didn't know well people around you start telling you how good you are It was like, well, maybe I am.

13:55Now I've gotten to the point where I'm going to the grocery store and I'm not afraid of whether my card's going to work or not. You know, that's a whole new feeling.

14:06Brad Sugars:I was telling someone the other day that business is not supposed to be like your first car. I don't know about you, but my first car, it was a, you'd walk out in the morning, you go, I wonder if it'll start today. Fingers crossed. But that's what getting to that first million is kind of like. how did you have to build your team to go from a mil to 10 mil did you have to bring in managers did you have to bring in what did you have to build so one of the one of the difficult parts that i put myself through at that time was i wanted to build like a family if you will so it was personal friends and and that's that brings a lesson all its own and so we can spend hours on that one oh yeah and then and you'll see that through those you know those next milestones of like you know trying to take your friends and you want to share success with them but you can't make everyone a you know an eventual like c-level you know executive it's just it's really at some point you've got to professionalize your management team right um i i just wasn't ready to do it to be honest with you i think at that time i was like we're a lifestyle brand i'm living this lifestyle out and uh you know and i just like i was having a lot of fun and at the same time i was working 18 hours a day so i was like yeah i was trying to find that not much lifestyle in 18 hours a day so it was like we got to shove it in and i think we were trying to be so um so much of a disruptor and i did i don't think that that was like really my thought process at the time but we're like we're gonna do it harder and faster than anybody else we have to prove it and so at that time it was like half the day was like you know was like packing orders and doing stuff like that rest of the day was spent on content of just doing the craziest wildest stuff you know like living the semi jackass like life and then like trying to run the business at the same time and so it was um it was hard and it was very tiring um but it was the way that i did it was not sustainable No, no, I remember that as a young man, realizing that just because I owned the joint didn't mean I needed to be the person doing everything.

16:15Right.

16:16Brad Sugars:And it was, how did you, how did you get through the letting go thing? Because at some point you have to let go of stuff and trust others. This is much later in the process. i you know like i i see now like friends businesses and as they go through this stuff you know and um and that letting go part i tell them all i was like this is absolutely instrumental of you ever getting to the next spot yeah and i was so burnt out like i had been running our social media for seven years and then you know they're my own um i was doing like my own podcast at the time and I was basically like amplifying to the world what I needed to hear.

16:57But like that also gave me this imposter syndrome feeling. And I think that that's very relevant. We all get imposter syndrome.

17:04Brad Sugars:I really hate that they gave it that name though. It's like, you know what it is? Because you know what an entrepreneur really is? They're a person who claims something and then goes and makes it real. Right. You know, because you have a vision and and the reality of it is that vision is not real but you know you can make it real um at some point i had to learn that it wasn't me building a business it was the business building me did that ever hit you in the face or was it slowly crept up on you or how did you fit in with that i i think that that was a later personal struggle that i felt because i was i got stuck at this point where i was like where do i begin and where does the character end yeah and i think but that also had a lot to do with i never wanted to be the face of the brand and i and i became it and so i'm not that person really but at the same time as a positive now the skills that i picked up along the way because of being like forged in that fire you know they're irreplaceable i wasn't a very talkative person i didn't have the social skills that i needed to have um i you know i i would i didn't have as much like emotional regulation as i shouldn't have you know really an entrepreneur without emotional regulation that's never happened how many laptops break around that time you know it's like and it sucks because you go back on you're like man it's not worth it you don't have to feel that but i think going back to what you were asking about letting go that's where all that comes from is like when you start seeing you know i was so scared to let go but then i that's when i started hiring people that were better than me yeah and And instead of being like, I'm the guy drinking my own Kool-Aid, it becomes like, hey, there's no ego involved in this thing anymore.

18:50Or no pride in it. It's really, if my pride is in my business and my people, the best thing I could do for them is to have the leaders that they need in those spots that do it better than I can. And so what that's resulted in is I get to do the parts of the business that I like and that I thrive in. And that's where my freedom's at. and all the other parts of it that I felt were painstaking are what people thrive at. And it's just, they have a different set of tools than I do. And it's like, that's the greatest thing you can find a business in my life.

19:24Brad Sugars:I think you put it perfectly right there. You know, I wanna go back then to a bit of the business side of it now. So what you seem to have done better than most is focus on the demand side of the business more so than the supply side of the business. I see too many businesses, they're so focused on supply side, they forget that you've got to create demand. Right. It goes back to that original drop model of the business. Tell me, obviously, start from the beginning where it was a money-related thing, but you've kept that model true. teach us more about how you've kept that demand of the business growing yeah that was so in the beginning you know kind of like we were talking about earlier it was you know when you start a business with 180 you're used to just like my dad signed a note for me to start my business it was like thanks dad i'll make sure i survive you know oh man it's i those are the best parts when you look back on it right yeah i looked so i look back on that and i just focused on reinvesting every every step of the way so i get more product and so but buddy as much as we're growing i couldn't really keep up and this was a great time because it allowed me to really um branch out and say okay like do we do a drop just for fall we release 13 colors and then you know and then those you see like we're watching our sales so they like you know they're kind of like this and then we go up again you know and the predictability for me to be able to financially you know figure out how to run this thing is like you know it's a whole different thing you know especially for us like it is our our like creme de la creme of the year is like you know it's pretty much holiday because we move into colder weather so your fall winter is great and then i'm just hustling my ass off through summer but all those bills come you know come due at that hard part of the year and so you know like trying to figure out how to like keep that all rolling and everything but so at the time it really was just we would sell out of things fast and it really was because i didn't have any more money and i refused to take on loans and like i did a couple little things like at the time they had that paypal loan thing oh yeah and all my stuff was through that and And my mom would - And 15%.

21:54Brad Sugars:Yes, exactly. It was like 15, 20%. Dear Elon, here's your money. My mom even asked me at one time, she's like, are you serious? That's what you're doing? And she's like, I offered you some help. Like, you know, if you need some capital. And I was so against, I just wouldn't go. I wanted to do this thing on my own. I felt like if I did it as survival, then I would figure out my way. And so I would do those a little bit. you know bump up like 20 grand so i could buy some stuff and then you know do a couple big releases try to you know pay the thing down not keep any like balances and i actually continued doing you know not using loans once i had sustainability in the money i stayed that way i for me artistically i couldn't i couldn't focus on my creativity with this looming thing behind my head if i'm gonna kill so many people yes it's like that pressure and that weight on your shoulders too much.

22:51Brad Sugars:You know, it's, I was chatting with a guy the other day and he'd fallen to a goal in his business of just pay the bills. And that's one of the reasons I do what I do, because if your whole goal in business is to just pay the bills, that's all you achieve. You've lost sight of why you started the business. You've lost sight of your dream of that vision of freedom and, and all of those things. And as you said, you lose the artistic ability at that point, but you've kept demand in focus the whole time how how did you do that give because when people are listening to this they're going all right how did you create the demand for a hundred million one other addition to that question how did you find the demand because i think there's two sides to your story on that yes um so finding the demand i would say you know when i started out like i said i was trying to sell to people who were me i'd already been in the motorcycle industry for a while because me and my dad had a shot before that and exactly what you said about you know all you're doing is living to pay these bills that's what that was like and talk about taking the biggest passion in your life and then all you know everything associated with it just looks like debt you know it's just that's a really tough thing but the good part about that is like i'm never gonna live like that again and that really segued me into that next business um but that creating that demand what i saw at the time was like there's a lot of skateboard companies that were trying to switch over to moto like it was like you know skateboarders don't like skateboard companies anymore but we're all like suddenly into choppers and stuff like that so we're going to start trying to get their way into this whereas like you know very staunch like guys that were only motorcycles almost didn't want like that barrier of entry there they wanted to keep that barrier of entry because it's like you know this is our thing stay out of it you guys are trying to cash in on something that is you know kind of a deal and so the authentic authenticity and where i came from and then already knowing the magazines and stuff like that it was like it it was almost like the years of work the seven eight years before dixon that really came into play because it allowed me to show myself as like you know now i'm already i've already built like you know handful of bikes that were great i'd already you know um learned everything i could about the retail portion and about you know service centers all that kind of stuff and now at this point i'm working at harley during the day for 10 hours a week and then you know and shipping orders at night so i found the demand in the people that were around me really and and i think that and the reason why i talk about those other companies was because our authenticity was rooted straight there yeah and so at first it was like i i thought like is this is what we are you know we are motorcyclist guys but you know we grew up on skateboarding and blah blah blah and all this other stuff um but i realized how small that was as well and i started thinking about the other things i liked and in those niches like really getting into them and serving them the same way so that's that's where like when i got my first impala like it's like that you know then i'm active over there doing that stuff i had to i guess in a in a roundabout way what i'm trying to say is that i became the people or i i got on the ground with them it was like you know it's like not saying like i was above them but i was like i got on the ground with them seeing them face to face and really was able to show that we are people selling to people and that's who people want to do business with you know they want to know you know about you they want you know you shake their hand and like genuinely thank them for their business and always treat them like that as the things grow and if you put your head down and you keep on fostering that and and showing them your passion and showing them how you have this purpose and you know an awareness of you know of the finer things in these cultures that it naturally kind of like paved the way you know i I think that it became something that they can feel it.

26:56And this is something that I continue to say, you know, even present day. Like I'll be in a marketing meeting yesterday and I say this every single marketing meeting. We don't sell shirts, we sell feelings. And that's where that really came from. And so I think a lot of that had to do with how we built up that customer base.

27:18Brad Sugars:Yeah, I think, you know, being in Harley at some point had to help you understand. they don't sell motorbikes. Right. Right. Yeah. Like their whole business plan is, is like, we're here to rebel. Yeah. Like kind of thing. We sell rebellion. Yeah. I remember I interviewed the head of communication and he just talked about that. He said, we didn't, we basically don't communicate about the motorbike. Right. You know, we communicate about what the experience is. And I think that's something you've created for your customers in an amazing way. So let's flip it to the next phase then, right? Because, you know, at some point, business owners, when they start getting to your size, you start getting the companies knocking on the door going, hey, ready to sell yet type thing?

27:59Brad Sugars:Because we're all going to have an exit from our business at some point, fine box or financial, you know, and or but even having your team run the business without you. Now, you've done an amazing job at building a good team that can do most of the running of the business without you today. How does that feel, by the way, to have a team that's that solid now? it's taken me a couple years to adjust i've i felt a lot of guilt for a while oh yeah because i was just like i i'm like what am i supposed to do then then i realized that i was like like i get frustrated about stuff i didn't know about and i realized that that was a lot of that's a big ego thing really you know it's like i'm mad at myself for not being there and this mistake happened now i'm angry you know it's like when i i kind of stepped back and i calmed down and really looked at the blessings of it that's where that's where it really was like okay this is wild i didn't know this was coming like at all i didn't know that i you know like i i knew that i was letting go in sense of like you know in um giving these people my trust and my respect and and and trusting it all you know um but i didn't know why exactly yet and so then then i have this uncomfortable moment where I'm like now truly one of the issues I talked about earlier who am I and I'm like where where do I begin and stop and what am I without this business and was I paying a character the whole time and now like you're facing these weird reality checks and and you know mentally and and those if you're not ready for that that that's a whole nother journey right I was lucky in that when I reached that phase, I also became a dad.

29:38Brad Sugars:And now with five kids, I like, I had something to, it's almost like I had another, the business baby was replaced with an actual baby for me. And it was like, okay, I see this new role I'm stepping into. That timing is great. I took four years off running the company and was a dad for four years. And I went back. I remember sitting literally on the red couch with my daughter and I'm, I think it was door of the Explorer or something. And I was singing every song in my head and I knew every single word. And I'm like, Oh my God, I need to go back to work. I'm going to die on this couch. You can only watch your Gabba Gabba so many times, you know?

30:18Brad Sugars:So if you look at the, the next game for you then, because a lot of, you know, when you reach that a hundred million, it's like, well, okay, what's the next game? Do I go for the billion? Do I create another nine brands that are this, you know, like, cause you've learned how to build a hundred million dollar clothing brand. Do you go and do that 10 more times? Do you go and do, you know, what's, is there another game or are you just loving this game so much you want to build this brand and you're already global, but you could take it to so many places. Yes. I, so the good part about some of the product segments that we went into that we didn't need to do, like say sunglasses, stuff like that.

30:58It was that myself and my brother-in-law, Chris, he's like my right-hand man. And honestly, I couldn't do this without him. He's a very, very important part of our success. But we decided that we wanted to learn how to make everything because we would talk to each other, almost like reassuring each other in a sense. Like, hey, well, guess what? If everything falls 50%, like we could do this and we're going to create this shirt. We're going to sell it to TJ Maxx, like blah, blah, blah. We'll make like 85 ,000 of them, just one shirt. And it'll just be called whatever. So Cal palm tree, whatever, you know, like, it was just like thinking of all of our outs to create our own nets because the nets are gone.

31:41You know, the safety nets are completely gone. The training rules are off. It's all up to you. And if you crash a burn, you don't have anybody to blame, but yourself. And so, so real realistically going through that, I kind of got a lot of that creation side out of the way. I know how to make everything and, and it's, which is cool, but I am open to new challenges. But, but if I'm going to be completely honest is, um, now my time has been spent being a father. Yeah. And, um, this is the part where I get this little girl tears me up every time. Um, so as my wife is like, Hey, this is great for you to like, you need to learn how to calm down.

32:26you know like i'm still running i'm like just running around the house in circles like trying i'm trying to make problems just so i could fix them it's like because that's what i do i'm a i'm a solution maker right and when you run out of problems you're like once you've reorganized

32:41Brad Sugars:the pantry 17 times you've sort of okay i gotta stop that it's i went and ran charities for a while because i just couldn't that's a great idea just and then i you know because it was like I gotta do something type thing. I took up golf because that's what I thought retired people did. Yeah, exactly. My dad was the only retired person I knew. So I played golf with my dad. After three weeks of that, I wanted to punch myself in the face. It was like - You're like, I don't understand how that calms anyone down. Golf is like an obsession, if you're an obsessive type of person that you'll never be perfect at.

33:16Brad Sugars:Oh yeah. I think they invented it just to annoy obsessive people. But so you look at, and this is something I talk with a lot of people that I coach in that, what is next for you once you've achieved X? What is the next mountain? What is the next goal? Because it's a hard challenge when you hit that. And I think that the people listening to us are like, dude, I just want to know how to get to my first 10 million. Don't worry about that. Stop talking about yourself. How'd you get there? Right? But you got there, and if I can summarize to people, you got there by building a great product and building a culture that surrounded that product and building a tribe of customers that love and repeat buy from you and become amazing advocates.

34:03Brad Sugars:The level of tagging of people wearing your shirt is just like – people don't understand that social media – and maybe you can touch on this just for a second. We'll go back to the other subject. social mentions for you guys is insane people tagging your brand when they're wearing your brand is more than i've seen in so many other products in your space did you plan that did it just happen how that kind of that came together as like that family vibe so as much as i was trying to create that in the workplace you know and and that's evolved over time it's like a much healthier family vibe now than it was before because it was just like my best friends and when you know you're with them outside of work you're with them at work you know and you know that starts to blur the lines a lot and um so with the consumers it's the same way we were doing lots of shows and like i mentioned earlier about the handshake and the genuinely thanking them for things it really it evolved into a family quite quickly and and quite effortlessly you know just naturally i guess And so when you create that culture in it, then they want to show they're part of the family.