Networking and Building Relationships: Lessons from Dr. Ivan Meisner

0:28Welcome to the Big Success Podcast. networking company for business people in the world. Great partner for us at Action Coach. More than$20 billion last year in past business. When it talks about scale, the man knows what he's talking about. His definition of success, though, really gave me a little spin on it different today. It's not something I've had from anybody before, and I think you'll love the way he looks at it. His philosophy on networking and givers gain, all of these things are explained today. Dr. Ivan Meisner takes us through how to build great people and build great companies. Big success podcast.

1:01Here's Ivan Meisner. So Ivan, I have to ask, what is your definition of success? What is success to you? The one thing that I think is the same for most of us, and I talk about this in a book that I did many, many years ago called Masters of Success, and I think this applies to most successful people, is that success is the uncommon application of common knowledge. And I came to that conclusion because - Hang on, say that again. Say that again. That's really important. Success is the uncommon application of common knowledge. And I came to that conclusion when I interviewed, you know, big names, you know, Jack Canfield, Richard Branson, Mark Victor Hanson, Michael Gerber, you know, I talked to people and I asked them, you know, what's the secret to success?

1:54And they said, well, goals, hard work, focus, persistence, et cetera, et cetera. And then I asked members of B &I, the organization I founded, what do you think it takes to be successful? And you know what they said, Brad? They said, goals, hard work, focus, persistence. It was the same answers. And then I asked students, I was teaching undergraduate school when I did this book, and I started asking students, what do you guys think it takes to be successful? And they said, goals, hard work, focus, persistence. They did have one thing that nobody else had, and that was they said luck. And I think the harder you work, the luckier you get.

2:31But other than that, it was the same answers. So that's when I came to the conclusion, and we talked about it in this book that I did 20 years ago, that success is the uncommon application of common knowledge. We basically know what it takes to be successful, but it's the uncommon application of that that makes us truly successful. Yeah, it's like, you know, we all know an apple a day. We all know get out and walk every day. We all know those things. It's who does those things and does them at that level. So do you think over the years, your definition, your personal definition of success has changed for you?

3:09Not really. I mean, in nuanced ways, quite possibly, but pretty much no. It's been the same for me. so when do you feel you chose success was it as a kid as a young man where did success become the choice for you uh it was in my 20s when i decided that i wanted to be amongst the best at what i do and um anyone who is interested you can actually go to my blog which is at ivanmeisner.com Seven years ago, I posted when I turned 60, I'm 67 now. When I turned 60, I posted my 40 year plan that I wrote in my 20s. I posted it when I turned 60. And basically what it said was my 20s when I wrote this was, you know, my learning years.

4:04It was my educational years. My 30s were where I was going to pick a lane professionally and really strive for that. My 40s would be where I would build a reputation. And I wrote this when I was in my mid-20s. And in my 50s were where I would be at the top of my game. I would be one of the leading experts in whatever field it was because I wasn't quite sure what field I was going to go into yet. And then my 60s and beyond were the time where I would be the elder statesman, where I would be the person that people go to to ask for opinions. I got to ask. Yeah. How did a 20-something kid have that much wisdom?

4:52Come on. Where did that come from? Was it from, did you read something? What happened to make that a reality? Because that's not a normal 20-something kid. I think it probably came from a book that I was given when I was probably about 16. It was actually, I first got it as an audio cassette from my football coach, Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. Got it. Maxwell Maltz. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that goes way, way back, right? He wrote it in the 60s. And he talked about the servomechanism of the mind and what you, I mean, it was the law of attraction before the law of attraction. He talked about visualization that, you know, if you visualize what you want in your life, you're much more likely to be able to achieve it.

5:34And I think it was an outgrowth from that. And the funny thing is I listened to that cassette tape so much, I broke it. And my coach gave me another one. And my fellow football players were like, dude, why are you listening to that cassette again? It's boring as hell. And I'm like, no, no, this is incredible. This could change your life. And they didn't get it, but I got it. And I think it did change my life. Yeah. So let's go then to the Ivan Meisner formula for success. What do you think is the formula of how success happens? Well, look, success happens in different ways for different people.

6:09You know, people have different strengths. And I can tell you this, it's not about luck. It's definitely, some people tell me, it's, yeah, you got to have lucky breaks. Okay. I think I said this earlier, the lucky, the harder you work, the luckier you get. And I'll tell you, this is a true story. I bought my big house in California. I now live in Austin, Texas, but I bought my big house in Austin, I'm sorry, in Claremont, California. And somebody who I knew went to the, they were standing in front, they looked at it and they went, wow, you are really lucky. And I said, I can tell you how you can be as lucky as me.

6:51And he said, yeah, tell me, What's the secret? I said, okay, no, you'll do it differently, but this is how I became lucky. He said, yeah, yeah, tell me how you became lucky. I said, well, I went to college for 10 years. I wrote 15 books. I mortgaged my house a couple of times. I worked 60 hours a week. I almost went bankrupt at least once or twice. And that's how I became that lucky. You can become as lucky as me if you do things like that. And he was like, yeah, no. And I'm like, well, that's what luck is about. That's funny. So what are the things, if you're sitting there with a young person today and you say, this is how success happens, do you have a formula for it or do you just give them a list of things?

7:36You know, I don't give them a formula per se, because I really believe in many ways it varies. What do you want to do? You know, and the formula for success, look, there are a few things, and I know you got some questions that probably would fit that formula. I'll give you one of them now. I think you want to be successful? You got to do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. And I think so many business people are doing a thousand things six times. And I keep this here because I talk to B &I members about this all the time. they're constantly chasing bright shiny objects it's like oh look at that let's do that and you know they chase one bright shiny object after another bright shiny object and they can't figure out why they're not successful you want to be successful you got to do six things a thousand times now two things first it doesn't have to be six it could be five it could be seven but you got to do it over and over and over again so what do you do well you listen or watch podcasts like this.

8:41You go to YouTube pages with people who you trust. You find mentors, whether they're real in-person or virtual mentors. And in your field, because your field may have a different recipe for success. I mean, there are some general, like the one I just gave, but there might be other recipes for that success. You go to those mentors and you listen to them and you follow what they say has worked for them. And you got to trust that they are in fact successful before you follow what they say. Who were some of those mentors for you? Obviously, Maxwell Maltz makes that list for the book, but who else was on that list?

9:21I would say early on was Michael Gerber. I read the E-Myth right after I started BNI, it was probably 85, 86 that I read the E-Myth. And, um, you know, Michael in the book talks about the fact that you got to work on the business, not in the business. And one of the things he said was, uh, write everything down, write everything down as though you're going to franchise your business, even if you have no intention of franchising your business. I'm never going to franchise BNI, but what the heck I'm going to write it down as though I did. And then like three years later, four years later, I'm like, wait a minute, why can't I franchise this?

10:02And I had it all written down. I had the manuals, the materials. It was just getting the legal documentation. And you know about that process. It was about doing that, but I had the manuals. And so Michael Gerber was certainly one. And here's the beauty of, you know, you follow somebody and they make a difference in your life. I was doing a radio show down in San Diego. Brad, this was back in the days where there wasn't a technology like this where you could be in two different locations. I had to drive down to San Diego. I did the radio show. It was on. The next day, my office gets this phone call.

10:36They say, hey, Ivan, there's some guy on the phone. He says his name is Michael Gerber. Do you know who he is? I'm like, oh, I forgot. On the radio show, they asked me this question, and I gave the same answer. Michael Gerber made a difference for me. So next day, Michael calls and he says, look, the book's been out for a few years. I want to thank you for mentioning it. And we ended up meeting and he spent a weekend at my house and we became really good friends. And you never know those virtual mentors that you may have. You never know whether they may become true mentors, in-person mentors, friends.

11:13I mean, I just spoke to Michael last week. So I think mentorship is really important. Yeah. So how do you feel that failure fits within the success model? What's your theory on failure's relationship with success? I think failure is our tuition for success. And I think a lot of people don't get that. They fail at something. Explain that more because I've never heard it put that way. Failure is our tuition for success. It is. It's our tuition. And we got to look at it that way. And let me tell you something. I've paid a lot of tuition over the years. i've i've made a lot of mistakes and and that means by the way that you've got to give grace to the people who work for you because they're going to make mistakes i'll tell you a true story um brad you know i i talk about the if you want to scale you got to you have to be able to delegate and delegate means you delegate responsibility and authority you have to give both and we tend to give responsibility but not authority so i there was a woman who worked for me who had the authority to make decisions up to like$5 ,000.

12:20And by the way, you give them the authority over time once they are true, right? Give them increasing authority. So she had authority to spend up to$5 ,000. Well, she made a$5 ,000 mistake. It cost me five grand and we did not get what we wanted out of it. And I called her into my office and I remember her saying to me, are you going to fire me? I said, well, let's talk. What did we learn from this mistake? And she said it was a mistake. She, she owned it. She didn't get, she wasn't, you know, defensive. And I said, you know, would you learn from this? And she gave me a great answer about what she learned.

13:02And I said, if I, if I were to keep you, you know, what would you do differently? and she gave me a great answer as to what she would do differently and then i said no i'm not i'm not going to fire you and she said oh god i'm so relieved but can i ask you why and i remember i said to her because i just invested five thousand dollars in your training yeah i'm not going to let you go but you can't do something like that again she's like i won't do it again i promise and and you know she didn't do it out of carelessness that would have been different You know, if she was just being careless, she'd have been gone.

13:36But it was an honest mistake. And she learned from it. So, yeah, failure is our tuition for success. Yeah, if you're pushing boundaries, you're going to make mistakes. There's no two ways about it. Hey, you're on the Big Success Podcast. I'm Brad Sugars. We are here with Dr. Ivan Meisner. We're going to be back, and we're going to talk about his skills and things about networking. He's the grand godfather of it, I should say. Not the grandfather, the godfather of networking. So we'll be back in a moment. You didn't start your business just to become a slave to it, but how do you get things done the way you want when you're not there?

14:09Brad Sugars walks you step-by-step through the entire process of systemizing your business in his book, Instant Systems. Pick up your copy today and start learning. And you're back. Big success podcast. Ivan, I have to ask, relationships. How do we succeed at building great relationships? I think it's about touch points. It's about staying connected with people. It's one of the reasons why in BNI we meet weekly. And, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, my God, every week. Yeah, but nothing breaks up a relationship quicker than benign neglect. We all know that. People that we went to high school with that we were friends, college with that we were friends, and we just lost touch with them over the years, that's benign neglect.

14:52And when that happens, the relationship dissipates over time. And so it's about regular contact connections with people. By the way, we meet weekly, but we used to have chapters that met twice a month. And you know what? They passed 50 % less referrals. Well, we tested it again last year. The new team said, we want to try it one more time. People are complaining that they got to get together every week. So we want to try it one more time. So we tried it in 2022. Guess what? The chapters passed 50 % less referrals than the chapters that were moving every week. And so relationships are the glue that holds the referral process together.

15:34Right. So let's go to the start of relationships, making a new connection, out networking. And let's look at, well, let's start with in general rather than in groups. Let's start with in general. How do people succeed at meeting new people, whether it's friends or business connects, either way? Well, I mean, there's a number of things. You know, when you go to a networking event, there's so many layers to this question. It kind of depends on whether you're an introvert or an extrovert. An extrovert has no problems meeting people. They're really good at that. The problem with an extrovert is that when they meet people, they can't shut up.

16:10You know, they go on and on and on and on. And what's their favorite subject? Themselves. Yeah. So, you know, it really depends. If you're an extrovert, you got to learn how to shut up and listen. A good networker has two ears and one mouth and uses them both proportionally. If you're an introvert, go to networking events with somebody you know who knows people there who can introduce you to people. Hey, let me introduce you to my friend Brad. Brad, you know, he runs Action Coach, amazing guy. And you have somebody there who's your wingman, and they're the person who can introduce you around to other people.

16:46Now, the beauty of being an introvert, because there's a strength, is that they're good at listening. An introvert is like an interviewer. You're asking me questions and you're allowing me to elaborate. Introverts are pretty good at that. They're good at asking questions and allowing the other person to elaborate. And so there are strengths and weaknesses depending on what kind of behavioral style you have. And I know you understand behavioral styles very well. I know you've used disc instruments in the past. I assume you still do. they're a great system to understand the behavioral characteristics.

17:20And so it varies a little bit, but let me just give you one more thing to remember. Don't use networking as a face-to-face cold calling opportunity. I see that happen too often. Instead, you know, people say, well, you know, if I'm not there to sell, why am I there? You're there to work your way through what I call the VCP process, visibility, credibility, profitability. So first you've got to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do. Then you establish credibility over time where they know who you are, they know what you do, they know you're good at it. And then and only then can you get to profitability where people know who you are, they know what you do, they know you're good at it, and they're willing to refer business to you.

17:58And that requires a relationship. Yeah. So let's talk about that then, getting that relationship, building it. What are some of the stepping stones to making that relationship or taking that relationship to the next level? Well, let's start with the beginning. So in a couple of my books, I talk about the 24-7-30 process. You meet somebody. So you meet somebody for the first time, 24-7-30. Within 24 hours, reach out, connect with them. Say, hey, it was really great meeting you, Brad, at that event that we went to together yesterday. I loved our conversation on such and such, and I hope our paths cross again.

18:39And don't sell to them. Don't sell to them yet, right? That's not a relationship. So within seven days, connect with them on social media, okay? You know, Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever. In your conversation, find out what social media platform they like most. I learned this from my kids because when my kids were young, my eldest is in her 30s and my youngest is 30, I learned that if I called them, they wouldn't respond. If I texted them, you know, the older one would, but the next one, it was WhatsApp. Now this was 15 years ago. And I went to my late wife and I said, what's WhatsApp? I don't know.

19:16I don't know what that is. So I signed up for WhatsApp. So my daughter would respond, my second daughter. That was my son. He didn't like WhatsApp, but he was a gamer and he was on a platform called Steam and Steam had an instant messaging feature. And so I went to Steam, I bought a program so that I can instant message my son and have him respond. I tell you the story because you want to go where they are. That's the seven. Within seven days, go to the platform that they're on and comment on a post that they have. You know, give some social support to what it is that you've seen that you like.

19:52And then within 30 days, reach out. And don't sell to them, by the way. Don't get on there. Oh my God, LinkedIn is horrible with this. you know people connect with me on LinkedIn and then the next message they have is would you like to buy my product the worst ones are I have a lead list for you and I'm like dude did you even read my bio do you even know what I do so um you know don't sell to them when you connect with them on social media and then the 30 is within 30 days uh reach out to them and set up a one-to-one and in that one-to-one you say to them I'd love to learn more about what you do maybe you'd be willing to learn a little bit about what I do.

20:30And then you have a really good one-to-one and there's some techniques that you can use to do a great one-to-one. And even then, don't sell to them. You're not at credibility yet. You're just working your way towards credibility. So those are some of the kinds of things that you want to do to build that relationship. Love it. Famous saying from Dr. Ivan Meisner, give us gain. Tell me more about that one. Teach us about that one. Well, giver's gain, I think, was one of the things that I absolutely did right when I started BNI. Because I recognized early on that networking was more about farming than it was about hunting.

21:16That it was about cultivating relationships with other people. And to me, giver's gain is more than a phrase. It's a way of living one's life. It's a perspective to view and interact with the world. It's an attitude, not an expectation. And when it's applied properly, it'll change your life. And when it changes enough lives, it'll change the world. Brilliant. Third paradigm. I've got the first, the new book just out. Actually, I'll get you. I won't explain what the perspective is. Give us the third paradigm. Yeah, the third paradigm. Let me give you the concept quickly and then tell you how the book is laid out.

21:57The first paradigm of business was competition. And it was the transition from the 1800s to the 1900s. The Goldriss, the Gantz, Frederick Taylor, Max Weber, they talked about productivity and competition. The second paradigm is cooperation. And that really kind of started with McGregor in the 50s and 60s, where he talked about theory X, theory Y, and talked about people being a resource. The people were important. Now, today we look at that and go like, yeah, isn't that obvious? But in the 50s and 60s, McGregor was getting bomb threats because people said, this is communism. It's like, no, people are a resource.

22:34And we need to care for them like a resource. So that was the second paradigm. The third paradigm is co-creation. And that's where people are getting together and actually creating something together. The best known example of co-creation is crowdsourcing. You know, crowdsourcing an idea, crowdsourcing a product, crowdsourcing the system. That's probably the best known. And I think that's the future. We surveyed 4 ,200 people to ask them about the benefits of this kind of collaboration and the weaknesses, the drawbacks. And we got some great results. And it's interwoven throughout the book. And I'll give you one more.

23:16And OK, you can't tell anybody this, OK? okay just between you and i brad um and the thousands of people listening yes well maybe maybe those two um there's a story interwoven in between every chapter uh about uh richard and and and it's a true story it's about richard and the development of this online program uh and and it started as competition and it went to cooperation and then finally co-creation where it came true. And we never say, we say it's a true story. We never say who Richard is until the last chapter, we give a hint. And the last chapter is an unusual chapter because the publisher interviewed the three authors.

24:03And the publisher said, is the story about Richard true? And my co-author said, yes, it's definitely true. And it is about one of the, one of the co-authors and just between here's just, this is just between us. Um, and your thousands and thousands of viewers and listeners. Um, my middle name is Richard.

24:27Quick secret, quick secret. You're on the big success podcast. We're going to come back and we're going to dive into the four right areas of co-creation. Then we're going to talk about scaling up with Dr. Ivan Meisner. Dr. Ivan Meisner is the founder of BNI, the world's largest business networking organization. Dr. Meisner has written 29 books, including his newest, The Third Paradigm. To learn more about Dr. Meisner, please visit IvanMeisner.com. So Ivan, co-creation, let's go through the four areas, that formula. I think it's really important to give people a broad brushstroke of it so when they read the book, they can really get deep into it.

25:06Yeah. Well, we, we took all of the data that we had, which we felt was really, um, valuable. And we kind of came up with four categories that needed to be focused on. Um, and we call them the four nose, the four to K N O W S the four nose, uh, the four nose in order to be effective at co-creation is one focus. You have to have focus. The second is process. Now that you got this focus, what processes are you going to use to be successful at co-creation? The third is communication. Absolutely key in making co-creation work. And the last is execution. How are you going to execute on the process of co-creation?

25:53And so we break it up. That's sort of our theoretical construct for the book. But we have hard data. So it's not just a book on theory. It's like, okay, here are the things you need to actually do for those to work. love it so i want to talk and you've done a lot of work on this over the years about scale what is in your mind the difference firstly between someone who goes for let's just use the million and someone who goes for the billion you know someone who goes for okay and someone who goes for amazing what's the difference in their mindset or their approach to things in the way you see it?

26:33Well, I think it starts with a mindset of, you know, Jim Collins and good to great. You know, good is the enemy of great. And I like to say, why accept mediocrity when excellence is an option? Excellence is an option. In order to achieve excellence, and in order to scale, you need to start by writing things down, like Michael Gerber said, You write processes down. And then you got to teach everyone about those processes. And at the same time, you got to create core values for your business, a vision statement, a mission statement, core values, wherever you're at in your organization. If you don't have values yet, you got to create them and then you got to share it like you share your training.

27:25And here's the thing about values, core values. If you don't create them and you don't train on them, somebody else will create them and they may not be what you like. And so you got to get really, really good about your core values. And then it's a process in the book in Third Paradigm, we call it communication saturation, where you are constantly talking about an issue that's important to the business and core values are important. So a mutual acquaintance of ours, Graham Weimiller, who's the CEO of BNI. One of the things that he incorporated into BNI was first BNI Bootcamp. Everybody's got to go through Bootcamp before you can actually start your job.