Success Factors for Getting New Customers W/ Phil Hesketh

0:00And the Big Success Podcast today has Philip Hesketh. Now, not only is he author of Persuade and a couple other books, but the guy is renowned for being a great speaker. 20 years in the advertising business of, you know, helping companies get more business. Amazing knowledge around that, around getting customers. And some of the things he talks about, about how you persuade people. In fact, when he goes into his seven drivers, I think you'll want to take a lot of notes around that. His takeaways are very strong. The guy's worked with all the companies from the most big companies in the world to the smallest of companies.

0:36But his whole take on the thing that stood out to me today is his take on how to go from good to great. So stay tuned. Follow Phil Hesketh. Learn from him today. This is the Big Success Podcast, and you're in for a big journey today. So, Phil Hesketh, how are we doing, buddy? Yeah, all's good, Brad. Thank you. Well, it's good to see. You know, Phil, I've really wondered what was your perspective on this. I love having you on the show. What is success to you? Like, how do you define success? Well, it's obviously different things for different people, isn't it? And so I can only talk from my perspective.

1:15A lot of my drive, I think, comes from within. So I kind of make my own definition for what success is, with my own upbringing, my own limitations, you know, whatever that might be. and success is all about a journey. It's about setting a target and going towards it. That for me, success is that journey towards the target. Yeah. Do you think that's changed over time? Like when you were a young man, did you have a different view of success or how's it been for you? Yeah, I do think that what you want for breakfast isn't what you want for dinner. And I remember when I left university and I joined Procter & Gamble, within a matter of weeks, I was looking for how can I be the number one salesman in the country?

2:02And I found, I sort of stumbled across this measurement system of displays. And I think somebody told me recently, they work for P &G, I still hold the record for the number of flash canisters on display in Britain. Now, it might not be a big thing to you, Brad, now, and it's not a big thing to me. But at the time, I just really wanted numbers. I wanted some significance. And I was the number one salesman for Procter & Gamble within 18 months. So that was really important. Now it's not so much about that. And what do you think shaped that shift? Is there something in particular? Is there a way of thinking?

2:42Or what's changed that shift on success for you? Yeah, I think that let's take cars, for example. It's the outward sign of your success or failure in the world, arguably. And again, going back to Procter & Gamble, I got a Ford Cortina and it had electric windows, Brad. Imagine that. You press a button, the window's getting down. And then you move on. And then I wanted a Granada. That was really important for me to have a Ford Granada. Then a BMW. Then I got a 7 Series. But now, well, you know, I've kind of done all that. So for sure, and I use that as a, it's not a silly example. That is a good example of what drove me then isn't now what drives me.

3:26Now it's much more about relationships and friendships and people feeling like I've added to their lives. Yeah. Now, here's the tough question, right? Do you think you would be as successful as you are today if your version of success now was your version of success then? Or do you think you would have been more successful or less successful? I think you have to define success, don't you? I think I would have been less successful because if at the age of 21, 22, 23, just at university, I thought success is having friends and good relationships with friends, et cetera. I would have focused on that.

4:05And that wouldn't have made me into the number one salesman for Procter & Gamble, where I wasn't treading on people, but it was kind of get out of the way. You know, if you're not part of the steamroller, you're part of the old type of attitude. Yeah. So let's go back then. Where do you think in life you chose success? Was it as a young boy? Was it a young man? Where did you find the choice of success for you? It certainly wasn't school or university. I did just enough to get by. I think once I started work, I realized there's some kind of measurement system. And I got married, so you want to buy a nicer house.

4:45And, you know, have the nice things and the holiday and so on. So I think it was I don't want to be materialistic about about this, Brad, but I think I wanted success so that I could afford to do things. Yeah, I come from a fairly poor background, middle class, but a poor background. I just wanted so much more than that. You know, it's interesting. The whole materialism thing does seem to drive a lot of people when they're young. And I don't see it as a bad thing. I see it as a strong thing to want to have the good things. I know with my kids, I've given them all the good things and now said, right, now you're off on your own.

5:27Go go find a way to make it happen for yourself. Yeah. And there's a disadvantage, isn't there, in being in any way a privileged child where you you've only ever traveled business class. is a hell of a drop down to economy once you've been used to business class. Whereas if you've worked your own way up from economy to business class, to first class and so on, that's a satisfying journey. So I always tried to give my three boys enough to give them experiences, but didn't allow them to feel privileged in any way. And they're now happy and up and running and so on. Let's then talk about your philosophy on success.

6:09Do you have a model or a formula or how does success happen? What's your thoughts on that one? Well, I've really had two careers, Brad. First of all, a career in advertising, did that nearly 20 years, run a business and now 20 years as a speaker. The one thing that they've got in common as a thread, the thing that I would regard as being a success at is getting new clients. And it's a lot of businesses, as you well know, really struggle on getting new clients. and that for me was always the satisfying thing that I felt I was being successful when I was winning clients particularly those who weren't expected to win you know we had an agency in the north of England and we finished up with clients such as BBC and Disney and HSBC and we weren't expected to do that and that for me was the driving force for me that that's success for me So what's your formula then?

7:06How do you make success happen again and again and again? Yeah. So funnily enough, the managing director of the agency I worked for approached me about 10 years ago and said, can I have breakfast with you, Phil? I want you to tap into your advice. Yes, sure. He said, how do we get a new business like you used to do it? And I said, well, I can tell you how to do it. But I didn't say this, Brad, but I felt like I said you won't do it because it is constant. It's like always having antenna out. I used to do this thing of show me you know me. And I saw this and I thought of you constantly being in touch with potential clients.

7:48so that over a period of time, sometimes over many years, I used to say to people, I'm on the subs bench. I'm ready when you are. And that, for me, is the model for getting new business. So many businesses are short of business, so chase some business, have a degree of success, and stop doing it. And then there's a bit of a lull, oops, start doing it again. No, no, it's constant. It is like forever. That, for me, is the model of success. So consistency is very high on your priority to create success. Yeah, 100%. Knowing your goal, going for it. And if it takes time, fine, it takes time. But in terms of getting new clients, I think most businesses, in my experience, struggle to continue to get new clients because they stop the process, if you like, of getting new business.

8:45It's forever. I can't help myself. Yeah, I mean, if you flip that over then, how does failure teach success in your mind? How do we learn from our failures? I think you learn from failure if you discover that you hate it. I like that line. Tell me more. Right. So we pitch for a piece of business and don't get it when I think we could and should have. And that hurts, Brad. It hurts in my soul. and that teaches me i'm not going to have that again so put more effort in now it's never quite as simple is it you didn't get that piece of business because you didn't put enough effort in it's not a straightforward formula but i used to say running a business it takes a herculean effort to win business anything less than that is not acceptable so for me what failure taught me little bits of failure, losing an account, not winning an account, all those things.

9:48I hated it with a passion. That's what it taught me. Dang, that level of intensity. I love it. I love it. I think that's brilliant. Listen, you're on the Big Success Podcast. We're going to be back with Phil Heskett. We're going to talk about persuasion, influence, getting new business, delighting customers. Stay tuned for the big success. It's coming your way. business empires are where most people create the vast majority of their initial income and wealth through brad sugars is entrepreneurs event you will learn how to turn your companies into valuable and sellable assets visit brad sugars.com to attend this program as a standalone or as part of brad sugars is entrepreneurial university and we're back big success is our way phil heskett you are the master of persuasion and influence i love your book persuade by the way the seven.

10:36We'll get to that in a moment. Firstly, what's the difference between persuasion and influence? Okay. So I think persuasion is something you do to someone. You know, if you, if any of the listeners, if you go home tonight and say, you know, guess what I've been persuaded to do, you don't feel good about that. If you ever go home and say, hey, guess what? I've been sold today. You don't feel good about that. So I think persuasion is something you try and do to someone. And we don't like persuasion. Influence is something that you have on people and you can be influenced by someone you don't know terribly well.

11:13But I think influence comes when you feel buyer and seller that I call it being in the canoe together. You're in this thing together and you can influence someone because you feel like the genuine interest from the other person. So how do we succeed at influence then? How does someone become successful at influencing? okay so i would say a lot of the time a lot of people telling people it's what they want to tell them and it's not what they want to know so successful influences and i as you know i have these 50 killer questions it's all about finding out what the other person wants what's the most important thing for the other person um what is it that they're after and then helping them achieve that and at the same time trying to slowly shift them to your point of view.

12:05So for me, the key thing is to find out what the other person is motivated by, what's important to the other person. Yeah. So you've got, as you mentioned, you've got the killer questions. How does someone become a questioner? Is that just a natural thing or is it a learned thing? I think it's a learned thing. I think you've got to have a genuine interest in people. It's interesting if I go back to my time with procter and gamble i learned the eight by seven the eight steps of the selling call the seven selling tools i could probably still do it now but it's very much turn features into benefits one bam thank you you know um and that's not like that now we've all wised up so for me that the key thing is to uh and i often say when i run sessions if you only remember one thing from this just ask a question just if you're in a query if you know you know ask a hypothetical question um so but i do think you have to learn it and then it becomes natural yeah so let's go to the top seven then let's start with the the three big ones and help people understand that change or that psychology that shift to becoming an influencer yeah so my seven psychological drivers the first three as you say the most important but we all want to be loved and by loved i don't mean hugging and kissing what i mean is i know what everybody's clients and customers they want they want to feel like you truly care are you interested in me do you love me secondly we all want to be important and that doesn't mean hey look at me i'm the most important person you know often people recognize that they're a cog in the wheel but they're an important cog what they're doing matters and then after love and important we all want to belong you know we like to belong to groups everybody listening to this brad will belong to a group they belong to a ski club a canoe club a running club a bridge club whatever it might be and when i ask people what's the most important thing in your life they always say the same thing they say family Why is that?

14:12You feel loved and important and belong. And in terms of influencing people, if you can allow the person that you're trying to influence to feel like you truly care, that they are important to you, and you belong, then you'll have much more progress. I often talk about the biggest single question you can ever ask in life is, will you marry me? In my opinion, there's no bigger question than will you spend the rest of your life? You're probably correct. That's the ultimate sale. Isn't it? Close that sale. And almost always you get a yes. Why is this? Because you've discussed the future. And you're basically saying, I think my future will be better with you.

14:57Do you think your future will be better with me? I love you. You're important to me. We belong. And so that's why they're the three most important fundamental psychological drivers. Yeah. So how does someone succeed at that? Are there steps to each of those? Yeah, I would say so. Again, the key thing is you've got to truly care, you know, and truly want to be interested in your clients, your customers and so on. But it comes back to this questioning, Brad. If you ask somebody, you know, what's the most important thing to you about the service we're going to provide? What's the most important thing to you about our relationship?

15:36Well, automatically, the other person feels important. They feel loved like you truly care. You feel like it's me and you together. There are plenty of other questions. But, you know, for me, the most important thing is what's the most important thing to you about? Let's dive over to the other four things. I still think, you know, even though they're not your top three, they're in the seven. So we got to cover it. Sure. Yeah. So they're not really in any particular order after love, the important, belong. But one of the things we have to recognize is that the way the brain works is that once we've got a view and an opinion and a belief, we look for evidence to support the belief that we've got.

16:13That's the way the brain works. One of the things that's always fascinated me is placebos. And nobody really knows how they work, Brad. That's the truth. The best medical really know how placebos work. But what we do know is people have beliefs. And you have to recognize people have got a strong belief on something. You can't tell them that they're wrong. wrong you've got to say hey that's interesting what draws you to that conclusion is there any evidence to support that so recognizing belief then we all want a balance of life in our in our lives of certainty and uncertainty so if you're going to watch a rugby match a cricket match you go to the theater whatever it might be you want to be certain you've got a seat you want to be certain what time it starts you're pretty sure what time it'll finish uh you want a certain way you park your car but you don't want the certainty of outcome there's no fun if you know the result of everything it's like watching a movie when you've seen it before it's like watching a football match when you know the score um so we like a balance of certainty and uncertainty and if somebody doesn't want to do what you want them to do it's because they're uncertain about something there's something about the future they they don't like and then the final two are are i've always found this fascinating that people who run run run run quicker people who jump on a jump higher people who play cricket want to score more runs people everybody wants more everybody wants growth and i have spoken at hundreds of sales conferences as you have brad over the years and i've never yet heard a ceo or a sales director say anything along the lines of hey we had a good year last year so this year let's not worry okay you know whatever nobody ever says that they always want more why is this because we want growth because we're we're driven and then finally we all want a place uh and for some people it's a place of worship for some it's a position at starbucks i've always found it interesting whatever commute i do and i've commuted along the northern beaches of sydney quite a lot on the manly ferry and so on i always recognize i'm johnny newcomer you have to see where everybody sits first before you sit down because we like the same seat if you're anybody listening to this i'll ask this question if you are sitting at home tonight watching television with your significant other i will bet you sit in the same seat you always sit in yeah why is it because we want a place so those are the seven things that drive us brad yeah you know i love those and i think everyone should read more especially uh persuade i think people should dive into it and get in depth and also do a lot of your online learning.

18:52Let's dive into getting new customers. What are the success factors to getting new customers? Okay. So for me, number one is you've got to be realistic about who you're targeting. I think it's so, and I'm very conscious, Brad, you've got all sorts of types of businesses listening to this. But for me, you've got to know who your target market is and you've got to tap into what it is that you've got to offer that is different to anybody else and then persistence is everything and making sure that all your details matter that you're better than anybody else and that persistently over time You keep banging away on how good you are at what it is that you're doing in a way that appeals to that market.

19:46Personal view, Brad, I don't think you can over egg this persistence of drive. It's typically not a lot of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So let's take that one step further. Then one of the great things that you teach is how to keep your prices high or your fees high. What are the keys to success around high fees, high prices? Okay. So if we take two types of businesses, the business to business, where there's an element of negotiation, it's one-on-one and so on. That's quite different to pricing in store, for example, which I've come to. So, again, if you, first of all, are brave, that's the most important thing.

20:29I'll bet everybody listening to this, and I've had these experiences too, have had an experience in the last 12 months, at least one, where they could have charged the client more money and the client would have been quite happy because you weren't brave enough. Now, just being brave obviously is foolish. I'm not suggesting that. But I have got on occasions four or five times my normal fee because I didn't want to do the gig. So you're putting a ridiculous price. You know, everybody's got that situation. so for me the most important thing is not to be bound by what other people are charging but say this is my price it's more than everyone else and when it's expensive you say yes it is but look at what you get yeah because you can you can afford to lose some of the cheaper business and again that I could do a half a day on this, Brad, but so often I talk to people who say, well, I've been beaten back on price three times this morning.

21:37I'm not, it's not, it's not going to happen again. No, the fourth call might be the one who doesn't care what it costs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember my, one of my first ever million dollar consulting per year or coaching per year clients was because like, I don't really want to do this. Listen, it's a million dollars a year. And they went, okay, that seems reasonable. It's like, oh, okay. I guess I'm doing it. Yeah. So if we start to think then the bravery is one thing, how do we back it up? Yeah, sure. If you are a typical salesperson and you don't feel confident about the price that you're charging, then you've got to go through the process.

22:26and the process is a simple one. Question number one is always, what's the most important thing to you about the service we're going to provide? Now, there's plenty of other questions, but that's question number two. Question number two is, what are your expectations exactly? So let's find out whether, and then say your current supplier, what would you have in an ideal world? What would make things perfect for you? And they say, well, perfect would be, so I said, okay, does your current supplier do that? No, they don't. Okay, now you've got a gap. So all the time you're building value, but then importantly, I would say working with salespeople all over the world, the biggest single reason they're not as successful as they might be and don't charge as high a fee as they might do is because they're frightened of rejection.

23:15We're just frightened of saying it will cost$12 ,000 or$2 ,000. They're just frightened of it. So you ask a hypothetical question. The hypothetical question is, look, if I were able to do all those things that are important, and if I were able to meet your expectations, is there anything else we need to consider? And typically people either say, no, there's nothing else we need to consider. Or they say, yes, there is. And you can talk about that. So you can't get rejection. But then you say, OK, hypothetically, if I were to say to you, this sounds like$12 ,000 per week or whatever it might be.

23:52How does that sound to you? You still you can't get a rejection to that because they might say, well, that seems like a lot to me. OK, well, does that make sense, Brad? You're hypothetically setting the bar up here rather than just saying, well, our price is and you could have charged more money. So it's the hypothetical question for me. That's the key thing. Perfect. Love that answer. You're on the Big Success Podcast. We're going to be back and Phil is a genius at talking about good to great. So we're going to get into level up when we come back. Celebrated the world over for his ability to entertain and inspire, Philip Hesketh reveals powerful life-changing techniques to persuade, influence, and succeed in the workplace and in our personal lives.

24:34A successful businessman, best-selling author, and one of the world's most sought-after speakers, he has inspired audiences and clients in over 20 countries to increase sales, establish value to hold higher prices, and control conversations, building stronger relationships. To learn more about Philip Hesketh, please visit HeskethTalking.com. And you're back on the Big Success Podcast. I'm Brad Sugars. Today, I have the author of Persuade, Phil Hesketh with me, sales genius. Phil, let's talk about leveling up. Good to great. Give me a perspective. Okay. Well, let me give you someone else's perspective.

25:18There's a British economist called Leslie Hanna, and he's still alive. And in the year, I think about the year 2000 or something, he looked at the biggest 100 companies in the world in 1912. He looked at the biggest 100 companies in the world before the First World War, the year the Titanic went down. And then he fast forwarded 83 years, 83 years being the length of someone's lifespan to 1995 to see how many of the biggest 100 companies in the world were still in the list of the biggest 100 in the world 83 years later. And the answer is only 19. 81 % didn't make it. So what do we learn from people who didn't continue that growth?

26:03And what we learn is almost always it comes down to complacency. You know, this expression, if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. It's complete nonsense. You get less if you just do what you've always been doing because the world is changing. So for me, this good to great is about two things. It's about looking for the next big thing. If you look at Microsoft and what happened to them when Apple came eating their sandwich, and I could give you dozens and dozens of examples. If you look at the fact that Kodak invented digital technology, but allowed something, et cetera, dozens of examples, Brad.

26:43So it's about the big picture, but it's also about what I call the TNTs, the tiny noticeable things. It's about never allowing complacency to set in. it might seem a small thing this but i don't like ever to go into an organization where the clocks don't work if you don't care about the being on time the clock's working what else don't you care about but if i interview so i've interviewed hundreds of people i always look at tips and toes your fingernails and your and your shoes if you haven't cleaned your shoes and you haven't cleaned your fingernails what else don't you care about so to summarize that answer there's two things.

27:24What's the next big idea? What are we striving for? But the other is always looking after all the little things so we don't let complacency creep in. So, Phil, you've trained a bunch of people, work with a bunch of people. What's the difference then between someone who sets a good goal and someone who sets a great goal, like a million or a billion type thing? What's the difference in your perspective? Yeah. Do you know what I think is something about, I find these difficult to articulate, but it's something about ceilings. My sister, bless her, we get on fine. We've never fallen out over anything.

28:01She never set herself more than being an assistant manager at the bank. She just never thought that that was possible. And I use that as an example. I have friends who are successful in that they earn good money or they have a happy wife, a family, et cetera, but just never thought they could do it. So I find it difficult to articulate, but I always thought we could be the biggest agency in Britain. Even now, I say I want to be the best speaker on the planet. Now, and I don't say that in an arrogant way because I'm speaking to somebody who can lay claim to that. It's more about saying I want to be as good as I can be.

28:46I want to get better all the time. so that for me is what that's about it's not I want to be you know there isn't I haven't got a measurement system of being a speaker in the world yeah it's interesting because I asked that question of a lot of successful people and and the answer is very similar you're saying it's it's almost just having the the bravery to go for it or to even choose that yeah but also being driven I had I do some work for Lexus cars and as a consequence I was invited to play golf with Colin Montgomery and if anybody listening to this doesn't know who Colin Montgomery is just say you know he's a very very successful golfer one of the best in the world and I said to him what is it that drives you Colin we're you know we're just walking along the fairway and I said what is it you know you've you've passed the point of winning the majors now you're in the seniors you've got enough money what he said Phil I can't help it I'm just driven and he summed up what so many people have said to me, because the nature of what I do for a living, I get to meet some famous people.

29:49And I ask them that question. What is it? And it's almost like an engine within them, Brad. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, and it came from somewhere. And usually it comes from that decision way back somewhere as a kid, as a college kid or somewhere that they chose success. It's quite phenomenal that way. Let's get to the quick fire round. I want your thoughts, quick, short, sharp thoughts on this. How do you succeed at goal setting? well uh you know there's uh smart goals specific measurable achievable realistic time not a fan at all i think it should be specific measurable awesome ridiculous and timed so that i mean i set myself the goal of changing the weather in february and everybody laughed i said no i'm going to go and work in australia who do you know in australia i don't know anyone brad but i i was just determined to do it.

30:44And if it's important, you find a way. If it's not, you find an excuse. And I had 17 consecutive years of January, February, March living in Australia till COVID hit. So for me, the most important thing about goal setting is just don't set it with your normal parameters. Love it. How about self-development? How do we succeed at self-development? first of all you've got to want to be better haven't you uh i'm surprised at seminars and workshops i run where i say to people put your hand up if you're reading a book on self-improvement very very few people and i say look if you're not reading a book on self-improvement there's only one of three reasons either you know everything there's nothing for you to learn or you don't or you don't care about your career or you can't read there aren't any other

31:38so read some more books yeah all right well how do you succeed at relationships

31:47yeah isn't it i've been married to the same woman for 40 odd years now i have a good relationship with my kids because if you said to me but what's the most important thing in your life it's my relationship with my wife and children if that goes all to pot then what's been the point of it all you know so I think the thing about relationships is truly caring and doing the little things and saying thank you and doing things for people without not only not expecting any reward but without them even knowing I love helping people who don't know me and will never know me I just kind of know within myself and as a consequence I think you improve your relationship it.

32:28Love it. Love it. So Phil, you've had a lot of advice over the years. You've read a lot of stuff. What's the number one thing you've been taught or what's the best quote you've ever read on success? I thought about this. I think it's that just because someone's not on the same path as you doesn't mean they're lost. So success for me is one thing. Success for you is another thing. success for anybody I meet in the pub tonight success means a different thing for everyone and I remember doing salary reviews and the agency and some people just wanted to work in the accounts department get home at five o 'clock because the dog was the most important thing in their life, you know, and it's okay that it wasn't okay for me, but it took me quite some time, Brad, to recognize and accept that just because they're not on the same path as me doesn't mean they're lost.