The Real Secret to Building a 7-Figure Video Agency

38:29And so my pitch back to them was, okay, well, we'll make you four 15 second cutdowns that you can run as ads from this 90 second video. And then they gave us more money. So like being able to utilize deliverables in a negotiation sense can be really helpful. And it's not going to be like that much more work for us. So what was the original budget that they proposed that they had? And then what did you guys end up getting them up to? 20 to 30. And it ended up 35. 35. Yeah, they were like 25 to 35 is the range we want to spend. And this is the important thing, too. It's like you hear that number and you think, wow, that's so much money.

39:08That's not how much you profit in production land. In production land, I think to really be successful, you need to be doing you can do the smaller shoots. And by smaller, I mean like 30 to 100. You just got to do it more consistently and be shipping them out quicker because the sales cycle takes. anywhere from could take a week could take four weeks yeah could take even you know six yeah you know so it's not like you're just immediately you close it oh now we have this capital coming in it's like you're typically getting paid in thirds so you cash flow becomes a problem and i think we did a good job of that at the beginning we didn't pay ourselves shit yeah and we stacked our account to get to six figures like that was our whole goal we're like let's get our bank account to six figures and not touch it and then we can start to pay ourselves out a little bit more money but like we were paying ourselves dog shit and that's just how we did it though and i don't know if that's smart or not but i think that like we had now it doesn't if you have a lump sum of income or that we're like waiting on people aren't getting waiting to get paid i have to be like oh i can't pay you this month like yeah and i think that keeps the relationships high yes because like nothing is more annoying than hunting people down like we're dealing with the company right now who's 60 days late to pay us yeah and like it i will literally never work with them again because it's just ridiculous like 60 days is insane insane and we're being good partners by not charging them interest yes you know which is fine in the future moving forward and maybe that's something we need to continue to do and be more strict on but we're just not gonna work with these people again yeah but go ahead and talk wait so okay so they came to you and they said 25 to 35 yeah but then once You end up getting to higher than 35 with the four cutdowns.

40:50Yeah, because you got to think like whatever number the client comes to you with, then they're going to show you examples. And then you're going to say, yeah, there's just like no way. Like typically get it to this caliber for this amount. Exactly. And usually that's like it's your job to be able to articulate the why. Not like, oh, we want more money because we want to make more money. It's like, no, no, if you want this, look, this house is going to cost us six grand just for the house. Yeah. like that's for the location for the day for one day you know and then it's like okay uh you do you guys want to like want art department obviously yes they do want art department that makes the whole damn thing look good it's like everything in the scene how does it look if you don't have that role it looks like shit and i still am learning how to bid out art to be perfectly honest with you it's a very uh articulate way to bid a job depending on what's needed we just have a absolute unit of a man that can build paint draw design anything nick vodder love you so much so he's our saving grace when it comes to art i'm like can you figure out how to do this yeah we have we have an architect that is the king of art yeah because it's different than just this is this person's day rate it's yeah you gotta buy all the cost of the actual stuff of the goods to make they gotta paint they do they do they they work way before the day rate and then you have to factor that end they're like oh why is this person's rate more it's like well they're gonna work for days leading up yeah you know it's like all that stuff all the prep days all that stuff just adds up yeah you know and then wrap days too like we often buy things and if we don't use them then nick has to go and return them so that's like there's another couple hundred bucks you need to throw someone exactly it just keeps adding up and so i i'll go through this i think no i know there should have been more money in the end in when it comes to the amount of prep days the amount of wrap days and actually paying ourselves out we needed a lot more money than we actually made because brayden and i ended up spending pretty much a month nine yeah a month but like 90 of the budget where typically we would save 80 or we would save 20 for the production fee and then our rates but we foregoed we we put our rate we put our rates back into it to make it cooler yeah okay so let's get into this breakdown so we'll get into this it was so i ended up getting a 65 000 budget three-day shoot we had wow 65 from an initial 25 to 35 and that's awesome you know that's typically what ends up happening the number that they say is never the real number and it's all it's just all dependent on the creative though that's not like oh we're trying to make like yes of course i want to make more money like i'm not going to bullshit you guys but when you see what reef draws up and you're like i want that that has a cost to it it's not like oh yeah we just kept everything cheap like you can keep it all cheap it's just like everything gets crappier the camera gets smaller the lenses aren't as nice the team gets smaller then you move slower so it's like if you have that part for real if you have we need to reiterate that you move slower and people need to understand that the more people you have the faster the machine moves and the more things you can get done yeah where people are like well why do we need this extra support it's like because you're gonna ask me to do something on the day and we gotta pivot last second to be able to do it otherwise you're gonna be upset because we can't do it in time and every every minute you waste is like on a really big shoot thousands of dollars on movies they're tens of thousands of dollars every minute they're playing around we've never done a movie but like you just add up the jobs yeah thousands of dollars tens of thousands of dollars are being wasted yeah you know so hit me okay 65k budget three-day shoot we had 15 crew members um so we had i mean i direct and produce so we theoretically saved money there where i'm the director and the producer we had a first ad we had our cinematographer we had a first assistant camera who is our focus puller uh we had a second assistant camera who is also just he's sliding he's he helps us with the dit stuff in the end he swaps lenses like love reese by the way shout out reese reese works on every single project of ours is our second i see um we had our gaffer we had a key grip and a swing who was helping with the grip stuff and the electric stuff art slash props nick on literally every job ever we had our hair and makeup artist our wardrobe stylist we had two pas and a bts slash social shooter yuli um every day was 10 day 10 hour days the first day all took place in one location and then the second days we split locations so two on the second day two on the third day uh we saved a lot of money by utilizing friends homes for those like one of our talent we use his home for his scene uh we also have our our buddy muzzer who's one of our photographers at blue stripe he allowed us to use his home for something and so we got our second day for our locations for our second day for a thousand bucks which is just unheard of you're not gonna get that cheap especially in LA yeah um going through I'm gonna go through the actuals breakdown versus the budget that I put together because yeah this is how much money we actually spent in the end um so our gaffer was$2 ,256.20 that extra little bit comes from their mileage so when your teams are having to transport themselves in between shoot days then they get to add up their mileage and charge us back that.

46:45Our production designer, Nick, he made two racks, which heavily underpaid. Nick should have made at least$5 ,000 on this job. He painted a whole backdrop for us. He painted different things. Like Nick spent a lot of time on this, and I'm just grateful because he's my boy and does favors for us. So thank you, Nick. our hair makeup artist was 1900 so it was her original rate was 600 a day but then she was a pa or a background extra in one of the things so i paid her an extra hundred bucks our first ad was 17 15 61 and that's because she went and did crafty runs for us so like I paid her back for her expenses.

47:36Our talent was each around$1 ,000 to$2 ,000 a pop. Our extras, I paid$100 each. Our swing, he was just doing us a solid, honestly. We paid him$1 ,250 in total, and it was like$500,$400,$350 or something like that, and he was just being the homie and helping us out um our first ac ended up making 29 27 so 2927 dollars their kits get high yes that's where things increase too because we paid her for her kit and she also did us a solid she normally charged 600 a day for her kit she let us pay her 300 a day or 350 something like that um our second was paid 1650 our kg 2250 our stylist 2000 uh our pas were about 200 300 a day yuli on the bts was 1525 um getting paid yuli and paid yuli you gotta pay more than me man yeah no and then brayden and i i believe oh no we're in the negatives right now so in the end our rates combined the production company made five thousand dollars which again we should have made a lot more than that but that's okay i'm i'm happy with how the final product turned out um equipment wise we spent three thousand two hundred nine dollars at old fast glass brin do you want to tell us what we rented from them yeah really nice cook pancro lenses so nice lexa mini lf um and then all just the shit that comes with a big camera like that which sucks it's just every single thing you're adding like anywhere from five to a hundred bucks it's like oh that cable that's 25 bucks and it just keeps adding up and oh you need a you need a rotopolar for a circular polarizer and all these little things the matte box the matte box It's the NDs for the matte box.

49:44All those things just really add up, which is why we're in the market for a truck. We want to own everything. And that's how you start making more money, even though you fork up a lot of money up front, which is why this stuff costs so much money. It's like all the lenses, all the gear, the insurance is so expensive. And it's something that we didn't even realize. I remember we got this job and we had to shoot at a venue that you all know and love in Los Angeles and have been there before. And the insurance they needed was like a$5 million umbrella, which is fucking high. And then you go to the insurance company like, oh, you need over a million bucks,$5 million.

50:19That's going to be$25 ,000 a year. You're like, whoa, holy shit. How is it getting up so, so high? So all of those things just run up the costs. And that's just operating a company. And it's just the price of rice. But when people are like, oh, why is it so expensive? It's like you're also paying for it to be great and not fuck up. Like that's it. That's really what you're paying for. up the experience to be able to pivot and make an unfucking exactly yeah like i think the you know you get a few companies together and like a lot of these jobs are triple bids which means there's three companies all saying hey this how much is it going to cost i remember we've talked about this we've talked to other producers about this but if there was a job and there's two of them that are similar range and one's way low they just fucking throw it out like get this person out here like they don't want to go with a cheap option so you should never be thinking like oh how can we cheapen this up it's like no no make it what it needs to be i will say the only way is if you have the work to back it up if you are like i am foregoing some of my rate yeah or money whatever because i want the job and i have the portfolio to back it up that i can do it at the highest level then they may go with you and you can be a little bit more competitive in your bid but yes for the most part I agree with Brad.

51:32Did you put on their editor? Yeah, we haven't gotten there yet. Oh, okay, okay. So then at Special Purpose, it was$3 ,040, which was all of our grip and electric that we rented. So the lights, the stands, the flags, stingers, bounce, like anything to shape light or place a camera in certain places that's how much we spent there um and then to rent we just rent our buddy austin's van and 1400 for four days because we rented it on the friday before to go do camera prep and then the actual shoot days we rented it as well and he gave us a jump scare austin he thought we thought that the car got towed and gets out thankfully but we were in the airport like your car's gone the car's gone where did you guys park the car we're like bro what do you mean we parked the car where we picked up the car no they actually thought that yeah somebody else on their team moved the car i didn't know and they're like it's gone it's totally bro that was like such a jump skip like dog gotta be kidding me got the car too it's gonna be so much money because the big van um okay locations the first day was 2500 for the house and so like 10 hours 250 but actually no i got it for 11 hours so 250 uh two 240 something yeah little 200 range per hour then let's actually talk about the house because we fucked up on this house a little our our car was way too big for the driveway we didn't measure the driveway and it was up in the hollywood hills and we got there and essentially just had to park the car in a spot or park the van in a spot that wasn't necessarily supposed to be parkable and then we just unloaded everything and ran it upstairs reef and i unloaded an entire like one ton grip van in like 16 minutes yeah with water yeah up a flight of like big stairs yeah like hustle because dude you also need to you need to like be so careful and this is why also we want to own a truck so you just know everything about it those things are so heavy and if you're on a hill gets a little there's just just not a place you want to be on a hill with a big heavy truck like that so all that stuff you need to be thinking about um and just like accessibility via a ramp, via just two little stairs or whatever the heck the thing may be so that you can just plank up wood and not have to be like, oh, we're trucking up.

54:17All this stuff needs to truck up because you want everything to be right there. So then it's like, oh, I need that. It's there. You don't want to play this game of like, oh, let's hike into the woods six miles. People are like, dude, what do you mean? We're hiking in the woods six miles. You know? You're very limited on what you can bring out there. and i'd say just being mindful of those carts are heavy so heavy those carts are like 300 pounds oh my gosh maybe more i don't know maybe less but they're heavy i think they're more with all the shit on there hundreds of pounds yeah and so finding a safe space to bring the lift gate down roll off this cart and then bring it to a safe place safe space that you need on location So$2 ,500 for day one of the house.

54:59Day two, we got second house for$1 ,000 and first house for free. So$500 each house, each location. Then the third day, we started at this house and then we moved to a more public space. And that was about$3 ,121 to rent those two locations. So in total on locations alone, we spent$6 ,620. And then miscellaneous craft services, because we had, let's see, we had breakfast day one and two. And then every single day we had lunch. And then we had dinner on day three. And then all the crafty and snacks, we spent$1 ,478.37 cents on crafty and meals uh on drives alone we spent sixteen hundred dollars which drives are more valuable than money nowadays like muzzer literally texted me yesterday was like hey do you have a t7 i can buy from you i'm like no dude that's more valuable than gold those are gold right now yeah i gotta dude we have a definitely a nice like honda civic in drives i've been going Going back and just being like, I don't think I really need that stuff.

56:20Let me just format this whole five terabyte drive. You got to do what you got to do. I know, dude. On props, we spent$1 ,250. And then on wardrobe, we spent$2 ,000 because our wardrobe stylist, while she can buy some stuff in return, if people wear it, if she has to take the tags off, if people are wearing shoes, she can't return that. So unfortunately, we have to actually spend the money on a lot of these things. Now going into post-production. So for an editor that did the 92nd and then the 415s, we're paying$4 ,000. And this is, editors can charge as little or as much as they want. For this, we didn't do like day rates.

57:11It was more a project fee, a flat rate where she was doing other things during the day. And then in the evening, she was able to work on it. So that's how we were able to get away with this. And she is also a very, very high, highly talented editor at a big edit house. Like this is what she does for a living. So 4K for that. We paid our colors 2K. Our VFX and cleanup got one of the homies to do for a thousand. we wrote a script for this that didn't get used yeah not used on the client version but we're gonna make a director's cut and it'll be utilized there spent 500 on that and then we had a custom score which we spent 1200 oh wow well that's awesome i think that people um And...

58:02I think sometimes people just don't know what certain things cost and everything that goes into production because I think when you're first starting out it's just like okay it's just me with my camera and it's gonna be 1500 hundred bucks and i'll show up and i'll edit and that's kind of it yeah i'd say one thing all like maybe more mid-level videographers should do or photographers is look at your local rental house and see how much they're renting out every single item of equipment you have and then keep that tally so then any job you do that's one of your line items is equipment because if you didn't have that equipment they're gonna have to rent it from somewhere yeah it also just depends too like if you want to do the job and what the relationship is like with the company also true yeah you know like we take out equipment on some of our jobs that we own yeah like we really want to do the job and we like working with you yeah exactly so it just all depends if i'm like oh this these people call us all the time like i'll be more much more lenient with the rates the rate line items yeah and all this stuff you just want to you want to help out people that are like feeding you constantly and like helping you grow so i think that's another big thing to remember is like you're in the people business yes they're gonna hire you if they like you and if they have a good time so regardless if shit's on fire if everything's going wrong it's make it smooth make it as easy on them as you can because the moment that you meet like force with force you'll never work with them ever again and i i would like to talk a little bit more about that because i think there's a lot of people who get one-off jobs and then they never talk to those clients again and i think i've even gotten pushback on people in our crews being like well why don't you just charge the clients more for that and it's like because they're my client and i have this relationship i'm not going to deter them from wanting to work with us again over 500 bucks over some bull like Like even we've talked about this before, but like if we get a revision that's going to literally take two minutes, why would we charge them a thousand bucks or 500 bucks?

1:00:11For an additional revision. For an additional revision. It's like just do the fucking revision and then keep growing with them. Because you also got to think like all these companies that hire you, regardless of their level, you do this shit so hopefully they can grow. And then you get more money as they grow. And then at the end of the, even when we started, we've been in business two years. The companies that we started with are far bigger than when we first all met. So true. You know what I'm saying? They all had 10 employees. Now they have 25 employees, but we still get hit up all the time by most of the companies that we work with.

1:00:45Very high rebound rate. So you think, okay, well now we're at this level. What's it going to look like in two years when we're all much bigger with more employees? They have bigger clients. And then you make more money as a team. It's like, y 'all can't work without the other. I think people forget that. It's like, oh, no, we can just fuck them. But it's like, no, like, they're the ones that are helping you guys grow. And they stack your account. And then you can. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Exactly. Like, even 72 and Sonny were not doing as many social campaigns when I was working there.

1:01:19All of a sudden, they hire us for a Zillow campaign, do a 10-part series, does really well. Clients really love it. now we're getting hit up for more social campaigns back to back to back and they are continuing to grow they're able to pitch this to more of their clients and they're already like multi hundred million dollar company that has global ties all over the world yeah but they're still growing in that sense and we're growing with them and they continue to bring us on because they had a really great time the first time we worked with them you guys also just recently worked on a project and again, you don't have to share the details of like what the project was, but Fig was telling me how this company had worked with other production companies or other agencies and like hated every single one, but they loved working with you guys.

1:02:09What were some of the things that you guys made sure you did on that recent shoot that allowed the client to be like, we really like these guys and we want to continue to work with them where every past experience has been a negative one for them i always just say yes and like if it's never a no i'm like okay unless it's like unless it's like actually outlandish it's like okay yeah i can figure i can figure something out like just problem solve like i i think that the the thing a lot of creative people do and like i've done bts when i was starting out and seen high level dps how uh almost like rude some of them can get because there's like that's not how we do it and i'm not like that because i came from sports where it was like all good out yeah fifth though figure the fuck out i would get hit up on friday night and they'd be like yo tomorrow lebron and then we're doing a pickleball tournament 8 a.m i didn't get to say no yeah i would just be like sure great like do i want to wake up at fucking seven absolutely not but we're gonna figure it out and it'll probably end up being fun but i always just take into account and i don't come into it i try to not come into it with an ego because it just makes everyone's lives so much easier if you show up on set and you're like Mr.

1:03:23Pretentious and you're like I won't carry that fucking stand like if a table needs to be moved I will move the table yeah and I think everyone that's worked with this will attest to that of I'm not just gonna sit there if something needs to be done like I'll just pick up the combo stand and move the combo stand or help move the light or like you need me to move the sandbags I'm not gonna say no to moving the sandbags yeah and I think that that trickles like all the way down to the team because then they're like wow this guy's not a bitch i want to work like i want to work for this guy partially you know no but it's the truth though and i think that we try to make it fun because it is fun yeah what we're doing is this is not a real job bro this is fun this is a fun job i'm having a good time we get paid to make videos yes dude we're not like it's like we're in a surgery room and it's like shit is on the line it's like we're not doing rock and science no we've worked with rocket scientists this is fun like this is cool and you get to do it with your buddies yeah do you get annoyed when brayden asks you to help him move the combo stand because he can't pick it up on it by himself i knew there was something stupid coming no i was like there's gonna be a dumb joke coming out of this so i was over the weekend i was hanging out with my buddy evan and he was telling me a story about how one of his friends was working or he was getting interviewed to get hired by some like tech company it was like google or something And one of the interview questions was some math question of like, okay, there's a jet, a plane that is this size, and how many golf balls do you think can fit inside of this?

1:04:55And so normally they were getting answers being like, oh, well, if the plane is this big, I think it can fit. And he goes, yeah, my buddy just goes, you tell me how many golf balls you want inside this plane. and I'm going to make it happen. And he got the job. No, he didn't. That is so beast. Dude, what a great answer. That is epic. How many fucking golf balls need to be in this plane? You tell me how many golf balls you want in this plane, I'll make it happen. Yeah, but that's just how it be because your clients will come to you with some outlandish shit and sometimes they're fantastic ideas and sometimes they're like, well, that's not the best idea, but we can make it work.

1:05:32And I think you only know, though, from doing it. Like when we first came out of school and I was trying to do this other company that ended up not working out, I just didn't know anything. Sure. So you think that you know what the fuck's going on, but you don't know a thing. And then after we've done it for a few years, I saw someone make this and like, business is every six months realizing how stupid you were six months ago. And that's exactly how it feels. Like two years, I'm like, I giggle thinking about the shit we were doing when we started. I'm like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in my life.

1:06:01But that's just how it works. And every single month you get a little bit better and you meet people that expedite the time times like a thousand yeah you're like oh one conversation puts you eight months ahead of where you were just at just because they told you a couple of things and like every month shit like that happens and that's why it's fun yeah is because every single time you're like ah we could have made more money here if we did that or maybe we should use this software we should use this person for sure for sure they're a total difference maker i also want to go back real quick and talk about why clients want to continue to work with us.

1:06:36Oh, tell me. Adding on to the yes end. I also think we are very, very good at being cool as a cucumber, a hundred percent of the time. Like even if we're frustrated as hell with our clients or with each other or with each other, or like the circumstances, it's really hot and it's a hundred degrees and I'm sweating outside or, oh my goodness, our thing just broke. Like we don't let our clients know that because they don't need to know that. Like they just need to be under the perception that everything is like easy breezy cover girl 24-7. And that's how it should be. And I think back to when I was the Lakers, they had like a massive majority of that business was corporate partnerships, meaning Verizon, Taco Bell, whatever the heck, Jack in the Box.

1:07:27B-B-Low, B-B-Low or whatever. Yeah, B-B-Go, right? their whole thing though there's a group of people who kiss their ass and make their lives easy yes it's like oh that content didn't do well let me figure out how we can make that right and that's how like the lakers president always said this at meetings he'd be like we are in the people business like never forget that we don't do like basketball as our product but we are in the people business the fans we serve people and i think i just took that into like everything that we're doing no matter like if it's hot if i'm not having a good time it's like dude my job is to make them super fucking happy and be just a rock for the group that you're around because then they all feed off of that like if the director's rattled and then i get rattled then the team gets rattled then everybody's rattled and then it's just a shit show you know okay i have an idea that i want to like workshop with you guys and i'm curious to know what you guys are doing slash i think there's maybe some stuff you can take from other industries that might be interesting okay when you guys wrap a shoot and it like went really well um what are things that you guys do like after you have delivered it um to like stay in contact with the client to potentially get hired again so we send them work that we do that's cool i stay up to date with them on social send them a message if i see something they did that was really cool um i think and just i think we should be doing more we should be doing more for sure yeah we definitely should be doing more so there's a guy that i follow on instagram and his instagram handle is first class jerk and he has a whole personal brand he gets to go to the most luxurious hotels ever he made a recent video about how hotels need to stop doing the free fruit plate because he's like nobody gives a fuck it's typically really bad and it's not memorable it's like a 10 but he goes there's certain things that i think luxury hotels do really well that i've experienced so he went to the amon in tokyo and they had a customized uh suitcase bag tag that's that they give to every guest that's what's what he goes that's brilliant he goes i think instead of a fruit plate you should do like either sock like custom socks because it's easy to size or like a custom shirt or uh like postcards or something i think it'd be really dope if you guys maybe even did some like physical stuff like i don't know if it's like i like that i like that a lot i don't know if it's merch or maybe even taking some of like the bts photos or something and making it into like a magazine or something and saying sending it to the client now you're talking that's a great idea like polaroids and making them into like a book or something and sending really cool it got me thinking about how that's brilliant yeah just collectibles or certain like physical stuff because of everything that we're doing is digital i think having like a physical tangible product that is a key reminder could be really cool experience yeah yeah that's fun it's a good it's like a it's good little advertising they see in their closet yeah we should call those guys oh they were like y 'all need like this candle my matchbook my blue matchbook no we do we do need a hat wouldn't that be cool I'm tired of wearing other people's hats.

1:10:37I would love to wear a hat. That fucking pisses me off to wear these other hats. But I want to wear my own hat. Yeah. Like a cool, swaggy little hat. We'll figure it out. Okay, I have a question for you guys. They typically say you shouldn't work with your friends because it's hard to mix business and pleasure. And it can be difficult. And I think a lot of people will sometimes start something with a friend and be like, oh, what can go wrong? Like we're best friends and then business starts to happen and it's hard to separate friendship and business. And so how has it been with you guys working together and have their like what have you guys learned about how each other works and how has how have you guys been able to.

1:11:23I guess be very, very good friends and also run a company together. I think it's super hard, but you spend so much time with the people you work with. so I wouldn't want it any other way totally like I think that there is that misconception of like oh you shouldn't get into business with your friends but like I think that's bullshit I think it's I prefer it because my best friends are who I want to hang out with and then you two happen to have great complimentary skills to like what I do so I think I think that it's the first business I ever started we did the same thing that was dumb and I realized it after we were already in business a year together and I'm like we do the same exact shit this is so stupid yes like I needed someone who does everything that I can't do really well really at a high level and I think that if there's road bumps which happen as you grow you just got to be up front with each other and the conversations suck but it's just the reality of it's not like friendship it's money and it's trying you're you both have the same common goal of growing it's not like i'm not i'm not attacking your character which is probably the hardest thing about difficult conversations is you're not trying to say like oh i don't like you it's just like i don't like this thing that you're doing could you help me figure out how we don't do that thing anymore and then we go forward and it's just like it's done there and i think like the whatever pent-up anger you have towards the person is usually like far greater than whatever the conversation ends up ends up being and most most of the time everyone's very understanding and it's like ah fuck like your goal is never to make that person feel uh the way that they're feeling and once you know you're like oh shit like yeah i didn't realize i wasn't putting that effort into this and that would make our lives easy like i can totally do that yeah um but i think that i think running a business is really fucking hard there's a reason why you know nine out of ten of them don't make it to a year and we're at two years and it's it's super difficult it is always changing there's no playbook that you can follow and no one out there has all the answers by any way shape or form so i think all you can do is just like literally have the one thing that you want together and then you just try to run as fast as you can towards it i also think brayden it just and probably myself as well just have the personality type for it i don't think everybody's so fair to go into business with their friends yeah i think you're right does ruin a lot of relationships and i could foresee it ruining a lot of relationships but just knowing our personality types and how neither of us really like take anything to heart when somebody's having a hard conversation it it makes it easy like yeah brayden and i have had very hard conversations with each other but we know we're not attacking each other's character we are simply explaining the situation and actions that were made that were not beneficial for the greater goal like you were saying like I got really pissed off outwardly on one of our sets at one of our friends and he was like if a client was here I would be so fucking pissed off with you right now like you cannot act like that and I was like that's so valid and I'm sorry that I acted out he had been pissing me off all week and I kind of just snapped right then so it wasn't him attacking me as a person it's him attacking my actions that were incorrect.

1:15:00I should not have been doing that. Or there have been times where I've been like down, head down, and I felt like Brayden wasn't supporting me in all the things. And I'm like, you are being more reactive than proactive right now. And he took that to heart and he started becoming more proactive in all the things that we need to do on a daily basis. So I think because we are not very sensitive people, like we are, but we, when it comes to having hard conversations, we take it at face value and we move forward. And so it works out for the both of us. And like he said, I wouldn't want to do this with anybody else.

1:15:37Like I, I get hit from friends now that I haven't seen them. They're like, dude, I only see you when we're working. I'm like, I only see any of my friends when I'm working. Like I'm always doing this, but I wouldn't want to be doing anything else. I think, yeah, that's, I think the, the tricky thing about it is for a certain period of time, all the work that you do, none of it shows. It either monetarily, it doesn't show in a numbers, it doesn't show. So you're doing all these things and you're telling people you're doing these things, but there's literally nothing to show for it. Sure. And then for like you finally get one win that's like, ah, there is like a trend in the right direction.

1:16:21And you really have to have this like delusional optimism. Yes. Because if you told anyone else, they'd be like, this is batshit crazy. But like someone else has been in the arena and is working on it knows like, no, no, you just have to like keep weathering the storm. and entrepreneurship is this one massive game of how long can you sit at the poker table and continue to play more chips until one of the chips and one of the hands like goes your way, goes your way. And then you have great, fantastic. Now we can keep building and keep scaling. But that I think is by far the most difficult thing of running a business is having this foresight to that you know stuff is going to happen for you, but stuff isn't happening right now for you.

1:17:05And that's why I think it's not cut out for everybody because it gets so frustrating. You get so down and you can't. Yeah. You can only just be like, something's not working right now because of the lack or my decision making up to this point. So like we have to change something or it's not going to keep working. Like, you know, it's also just way more fun to win with your buddy. God, it's so fun. Like if I close the deal by myself, I'm like, oh, yes. But then I get to be like, let's go. Like we fire each other up. And then failing with your buddy is also like it makes it more enjoyable because you're learning together and you're making sure that you don't make the same mistakes.

1:17:43And you're like, I'm not the only one having a shitty day. It's only stupid if you don't learn from it. The whole game is failing. The whole game is failing. The entire thing is like making mistakes and then never making the same mistake ever again. What you just said, though, about it taking time is so key. It's kind of like an actor. yeah everybody out here in LA is trying to be an actor and you know there's actors who go back home for the holidays and then their family is asking them like oh how is it going and and you know the what they want to say is oh it's going great like I booked this role in this role in this role but like a huge win sometimes for an actor is even getting like the first callback like you didn't even you didn't book the role but oh they liked me enough to call me back and that's a win or you know i feel like i i really delivered this monologue really well in this audition or something and they have to keep keep going and you like you said you have to weather the storm how long can i weather the storm eating shit and then eventually like you're continuing to get better you have micro wins and then some eventually you're gonna get a big break and i think that with production freelance using a camera making content especially when you're first starting out it's like same thing you you see these people doing these big things you know you want to get there but it's unfair to compare yourself to where they're at what kind of clients they're working with and what kind of work they're producing because they've already put in their five to seven years and they you didn't see you didn't know them when or you didn't see them when they were eating shit in the beginning and you so badly want to like move quicker than you are but you can only control what you can control sometimes it's like not the right time with a certain client or like their sales cycle is a little bit longer than you want because the email hit your inbox or you connected with them on tuesday you're ready to fucking sign the contract on thursday but they have a few more people that they need to talk to and oh, maybe it's not the right time, but let's keep this conversation going.

1:19:54Maybe something can happen a little few months down the line. But that's just how it is. And you really aren't going to see the real fruits of your labor until you are in year two, three, four of the business. And you can only imagine what year five is like because the learnings are all exponential. Like what we were saying, that six-month thing, that is so real. And just think back to how much shit we didn't know when we were in Joshua Tree that we thought we knew. We thought we knew it all. You think. You're like, oh, I think I know how this rolls. Yeah, we figured it out. I figured this out.

1:20:26Yeah, we got. Okay, so what are a few of those misconceptions that you guys had that you now looking back are like, oh, we for sure were going about that the wrong way. Camera team, 100%. Because we were always like, yo, why do we need like a first and a second? Why do you need all this team? It's the whole thing. The team is the backbone of all the spots, all the commercials, all the movies. But when you come from one-man band land, you just don't understand because you've never seen it before. So how could you know and understand? We've made something so great with just us two. With just us two, yeah.

1:21:04So why can't? But there's a time and place for that. Yeah, there's a time and place for that. Just depends on the project. I think the other thing is just like keeping expenses as low as possible and I think you see a lot of business owners who at least I've followed they don't pay themselves a lot for the first few years because you can't like you just can't do it you have to like grow the company and this is a labor intensive business to be in it's not like it's digital where it's like everything is profit like you have to account for all these expenditures and insurance and like we had no idea about any of that stuff i also think that we thought we could grow a multi-million dollar business strictly on production and now we understand that we need multiple streams of revenue like need multiple streams of revenue like doing production really well is a fascinating engine of a of like how these companies are operating how many people they have in house uh the types of jobs that they're doing because if you think about it like if you do you're doing a million dollar commercial twice a month.

1:22:10So that, that company is probably profiting, you know, 400 ,000 bucks. Yeah. You do. Okay. You times it by 12. Like, okay, that's their, that's their net for the year. That's after paying out all these crazy day rates, these big dog directors and DPs that they're hiring. So there's just so many different models. And then there's like, you know, there's an agency model where, okay, you have clients at two to 5k a month and you service them with social content. I personally think that's really boring and it doesn't excite me at all. so you really have to just kind of live and die with the avenue that you pick but then also be understanding of that's just like a wing that's not like our whole entire business model like okay consulting huge business right there uh so wait you guys want to talk about the kickoff that you guys are going to start doing yeah we can talk about it yeah we basically are starting another offer to help brands with social content that basically can't afford to work with us where they're at right now so they can't do a fifty thousand dollar commercial but hopefully you can get them to a place where they're kicking hard enough and making enough money from social, from teaching them how to do it.

1:23:11And developing their social strategy. So they're not just shooting things at the wall and praying something sticks. So we've partnered with a talented strategist, Lucas, and he's helping us kind of build out this offer, which is going to start this week, which I'm super excited about. But taking a brand who has either tried social and thinks it doesn't work because it definitely works, or maybe ran paid ads and they did terrible, or just feels lost when it comes to creating content. And like what they make, how they do it, generating ideas. Yeah. We want to eliminate all of that for these brands.

1:23:44So like come in, intake everything that they're doing, figure out formats that are going to work for them, script their videos, give them great hooks, allow them to just go out and make the videos, but hold their hand while we make them. So while they're cutting these videos, give them feedback on how it can be better and then just grow with them and help them reach, you know, trust, earn more dollars at the end of the month and keep growing their brand so it's no longer just a commodity. It is an actual brand. And I think most brands in quotes are commodities. There's no reason why they buy you over your competitor.

1:24:20And I think the most successful brands win because of the word brand. They are a brand name. You know what I'm saying? It's like, why does Aesop have a$48 soap that people buy why don't they just buy it at targets because they they want to feel a part of the tribe of asap and they want it to say they want this luxury experience exactly walks into their home they go ah this is a symbol of of status of wealth of you're doing good or whatever the heck that thing may be so those are the companies that continue to succeed the ones that build brands yeah not just real off of like oh we have a million dollar company but we all of its facebook ads if we turn this off no one would buy our shit yeah you know which is like the luxury market is so fascinating in that way because it's people are spending a thousand x two thousand x on a very similar product that someone could get for a few hundred bucks yeah you know or they sell it on canal street and you can buy the same purse it's not as cool unless you go to the store yeah you know yes like um it's fascinating people talking about the economy and the shitter but it's like you know nobu they're fully booked nobu yeah people are spending money yeah yeah seriously No, seriously.

1:25:31A big reason you guys have been able to lock in some pretty awesome jobs is because of how dialed your pitch decks are. Like Brayden mentioned, you're typically going up against other companies. In an ideal world, they find you. They love you. They want to work with you. They tell you the budget. And then you're just off to the races. But oftentimes, it's not that easy. And you're going up against other competition. And so talk to us about how important pitch decks are. And is that something you really learned while you were at 72? Reef the goat of decks, by the way. Yeah, no, your decks are insane.

1:26:09I've gotten really good at them, but there are definitely people that are way more talented than me. Dude, when you see some of these crack decks, you're like, I get why they charged what they did. Like people's full jobs are designing beautiful decks. Which is crazy. Insane. and i'm super grateful that i learned how to design in college like i just found an interest in it and then i started doing our fraternities apparel and then i learned how to use photoshop and illustrator like we would be cooked without reef's knowledge of design making because from the frat perspective like you guys wouldn't have been able to get yeah we wouldn't have been able to grow good rushes that was the difference that was the difference oh from blue stripe Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:26:53You love doing those ones. That joke where you like it. See, that's what you got to do, though. If you're thinking about doing a company with anybody, think about all the skills that you have and write them down and then write down the other person's skills and make sure, for the most part, that they don't overlap. Yeah, my list is a lot longer than Brayden. Some bullshit on that list. Where does Brayden fit in the design category? Where he goes. On the floor. Yeah, that looks great, man. That looks great, Reef. these are my two phrases design that's not it or that is that's great dude that's actually great that is not it there's something about this that's bothering that is not it that looks great that's called having taste ladies and gentlemen i'm a creative director now telling the clients when you're editing something a good piece of feedback is not this doesn't look good what does he do when he sees that doesn't look good that just doesn't look but i tell them and you know what designers i go i don't know to speak your language so you can say i'm an idiot yeah Okay, go ahead.

1:27:52No, it's really important. I think it's building a pitch deck is just as important as being a good salesman. I think it is the same skill in a different vehicle. You are pitching an idea and you are selling an idea and taking somebody down a little path or a little journey, reading through this presentation that you've built and understanding the vision that sits up here and making it make sense in their head. Because a lot of times people who work in corporate allowed themselves to lose their creativity and their imagination over time. And it's an unfortunate thing that society has kind of like pushed on people because I'm a true believer that everybody can be creative and everybody had an imagination at one point or another.

1:28:41But a lot of people. I like that. Have let that go. And so how do you provide that imagination in that visual painting picture in somebody's head when they don't exercise those muscles anymore? And it's really just like sifting through references. And I don't know what everybody else's strategy is when they build their decks. But for me, I just go through and find things that I like. and then it's it's basically just like the shit sheet of imagery where it's like this everything and then i'm like okay what actually like looks good next to each other and what feels cohesive like okay i'm talking about lighting so out of all the references i pulled which ones have the same lighting because in my brain it made sense when i was like going on this discovery phase but then if i just take everything and i'm talking about everything i want it doesn't make sense for somebody else.

1:29:38So every, and like cinematography, which of these are actually the shots that I want to emulate for what we're doing now, strictly lighting now strictly color. And then I, I write up what I'm thinking. And then I pull the images that actually fit for what I've written because otherwise it's like, okay, well you wrote this, but these images don't match, or these images are all over the place and they're not very cohesive. Can you give me two or three tips for crafting and designing a winning pitch deck that like maybe a beginner wouldn't necessarily know i think simplicity is key i think there's oftentimes people want to do way too many things in a frame just keep it simple take one photo do a few little details on the edges like i always put blue stripe i put the uh client's logo i put directed by sharif atrexai or whatever and then a page number and then i'll have the image and then a write-up about what's in my brain and people want to make like these mood boards and these collages and you don't need all that that's like very overstimulating for people so take it little bite-sized pieces at a time and make it simple sleek and elegant that's like the biggest tip i think I could give.

1:31:05Simple, sleek, elegant. Shebang. Right there. I saw this video of this. Dude, he goes, dads, anytime they get a new song stuck in their head, he's like, ah, shebang. He's like... I've been saying it for everything, dude. I've been saying it a lot lately. He's like, babe, where are those Diet Cokes in the fridge? He's like, oh, never mind, I found them. Diet Coke, shebang.

1:31:32Oh, shit. but yeah and then also try and take the client's brand identity that they've already built and give it back to them because you want to live in their world so find all their logos if yes you can't download a high-res make remake their fucking logo i do not care i will sit in illustrator and make a bunch of shapes until i make their logo wow find what their fonts are like if they have a color palette make sure you stay in that color palette like they will love the little attention to details that you've put together to showcase their brand back to them in your own unique way it's like a pretty easy thing that you can do that they're normally pleasantly surprised yeah 100 i think it's the easiest thing you can do that they're very yeah used by going back to your days at 72 for a sec how long did you work there for i worked there for almost like almost three years yeah okay during your time at 72 what did you do during your tenure there to make yourself more valuable to the company and to you know start working on bigger jobs um and have your have your your role grow in the company during your three years there Yes, and.

1:32:58100%. I think I sacrificed a lot of my social life to get put on better jobs and work more and work on cooler things. And not everybody's willing to do that, but I think life is a game of sacrifice. I'm so with you. You cannot continue to move forward without taking things away. totally it's all it's all push pull give take yin yang it's all about balance so i the i think the second summer that i worked at 72 and sunny i always worked one weekend day the entire summer i went without a weekend day whether it's saturday or sunday to work on whatever nfl job i was working on and not everybody's willing to do that but did that also allow me to then work on a Super Bowl campaign and win an Emmy at 22?

1:33:57Yes. So it's just a game of sacrifice and being a good person and a good vibe. It's really easy. Like just being kind to other people, checking in on people, asking where you can help. Oh, I'm grabbing a leisure out of the fridge. Would you like a leisure as well? Doing those little things go so far, saying hi to people, like meeting somebody new i'm walking in the office and somebody walks out of the bathroom as i'm walking in i haven't met this person i'm not going to ignore them and be like oh my goodness so sorry yo what's your name by the way just being a friendly face and i walked through that office and a majority of the people in there knew who i was because i was just the happy-go-lucky dude who was working hard sometimes when i was in the office i'm like people here don't think i work man because i'm like fucking off what personality hire just back at it again like i promise you when i'm at home i am locked in for like 10 to 12 hours a day this is like the only time i'm getting to talk to people because it was at towards the end of the pandemic and yeah so just just being a good person in putting i don't want to ever put my name on something that i'm not proud to share like i am going to make sure i do my part to make sure it's the best possible outcome best possible product because i don't want people knowing that i touch that if i'm i don't think it's sick yeah i don't always get to be the decision maker on whether it's sick yeah but at least i did my part to ensure that i put my best foot forward so at a larger ad agency like 72 are there like were there multiple people with your similar role that are your guys are like kind of fighting for to get put on to different projects?

1:35:52Kind of. Yeah. So there are executive producers who oversee like a few of the different accounts. So let's say one is on. Should I like use brands? Yeah. OK. So the EPs will oversee like four different clients and then they will be the person that's working with the like group director of account who oversees those other ones. And they're like, okay, we have these things coming in the pipeline. The creatives are developing this, we need some producers who aren't working on things or have the bandwidth to do it. And so that will also work with like the resourcing team, figure out who's working on what, and then put different people of different seniority on the project, depending on how big the projects were.

1:36:40So there's EP, then senior producer, then mid-level producer, then junior producer, then production coordinators. And I feel like I moved up pretty quickly in comparison to most people, just because I was like, always on something always down to do the next thing and keep working and keep going. But I don't, I didn't ever feel like it was a competition because there was so much work to go around. Did I get all the coolest ones? Yes. But also, other people might not think that they were cool for them either like i liked working on the nfl i like sports you don't like sports you don't care yeah no one cares yeah so it's it's like it can be competitive if all the people have the same interest but it's not necessarily an actual competition between other people at your level but i also started getting owning my own work when i was a junior producer and when i left they put senior producers on my job so i was like what the

1:37:43I'm laughing so hard because Brayden Brayden's got four open cans next to his seat he looks like one of those kids who just like doesn't clean his room just like playing video games you know you walk in he's like you got the half the plate of pizza rolls my room is clean right now your room is clean right now it was I was remodeling I had a fish tank the new tank looks fire so should we just go into a little PPD because we got our good friend Reef. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Post-pod debrief. The after party? He made it to the after party. Dude. Can you believe that? Well, Reef's been going to other after parties and now he came to ours, stopped by ours.

1:38:25You made it in, man. Welcome. This is a great place to be. It's hard to get through that door. Yeah. Yeah. Now we can talk about Columbia and that game. We've been crushing World Cup. Yeah. not so much this guy watched the u.s play yeah dude that was brutal dude that was world cup's been sick though world cup has been amazing it's like literally my favorite thing every four years and i'm not a big like emotionally attached sports guy except to my university of oregon ducks and the columbia national team and our our team lost yesterday in penalty kicks and i was really sad and then i i was able to sit back and reflect and i'm like oh i understand men that like have that emotional attachment to their teams a lot more now because you get it because you felt that i felt it dude like i actually i have no control over whether this game wins or loses and i was just sad oh columbia had it though that it was there was i texted you i was like dude i can't believe he missed that dude dude dude so did you guys lose in pks or yeah we lost in pks but in like no i think it was extra time or like yeah i think it was in extra time buddy just has one-on-one with the keeper absolute sitter yeah could just totally put put your head down put your body over the ball just rip it to the far corner just sends it no skies yeah you hate to see that you hate to see it you hate to see but that's the beauty of the world cup man it's just anything everything goes who do you think's gonna win to probably france but i don't really want them to win dude the french are good huh the french are disgusting so can mr erling can can he stop the french that's the question that's the goal you think it's gonna be them norway england and then morocco france up in that side of the bracket if your tenants watching this I fucking hate England I really want England to lose they got us out of the World Cup the last World Cup we were in and he always sends me that YouTube video of those penalty kicks because again we lost in penalty kicks the last World Cup we were in wait but is it possible that Norway and France plays in the finals or would they be in the semifinals which would be pretty elite I can't lie it would be awesome to see England lose to Norway.

1:40:57Fuck you, Tennant. And then it would be really... I mean, I would love if Morocco beat France. I don't think it's going to happen. Sure. But that would be sick. Man. Brown boys. Gang. Yeah. Type shit. What else is up? I got to tell you guys a crazy story. Yesterday we were in a meeting, right? I'm sitting there. I just shaved my beard. Oh, are you sure you want to... We're going to cut this out, but I have to tell you about this because this is... Well, I'm not cutting it out. This is insane. It can stay in. This is crazy. i just shaved my beard i'm sitting there on the meeting and i go like this and i go i felt something right there and i go do i have a mole and i'm braiding good and i flicked it i flick it and i go when did i get a mole like did i just grow a mole on my chin i'm like i said it's out loud no no they i muted myself during the call and and i turn my camera off and then i go to the mirror and i look i go oh my god i have a little mole no i touched it had legs it moved it was a tick bro that was latched onto me dog what bro i was so rattled in his i had a tick on my chin dude it fucking kind of hurts now that i just touched right there damn yeah bro so i popped the little guy out he was flat though i look it up because i'm like where would i got a tick we're in la like tickstone east coast bro we were just in in the woods for this carhartt shoot oh i was literally staying in the woods and i went on a walkabout through the woods i went to jack's cabin and i took the scenic route through i didn't go on the trail i went through the woods so a little fucker must have just popped on to me yeah or something how do you think that happens do you think it gets on you like legs works its way up or do you know i i literally have no idea how i wouldn't have felt it yeah but you know what's crazy too is that i'm asking chat and i'm like am i gonna get lyme disease or something like what's the vibe with this oh because they're deer ticks and it was the exact it was a deer tick of course dude it's so funny i go i'm i live in los Angeles like he goes oh no in Los Angeles you have nothing to worry about I go I think I got an album in New York you have a lot to worry about Lyme disease is prevalent bro of course but the little guy wasn't big he had just gotten on to me so I don't know if he was just living life but are you still worried about this Lyme disease thing I'm just riding it man I feel pretty good I'm a tough guy but yeah you know Biebs had Lyme disease I'm aware and I'm terrified of that yeah she said monitor symptoms yeah no I know when you said that I was like bro you might want to go to the doctor yeah it was pretty traumatizing i was like what the hell it was like dude i keep i saw a video of someone getting like an earwig in their ear yeah you know what i'm talking about have you not seen this shit an earwig yeah you know what an earwig is it's a little like slimy little slimy long things i guess they're not slimy they're not long they got hollow legs they got like two kind of like a mini centipede in a way yes yes yes yes but yeah bro i was like oh my god this is such my luck everybody please tell brayden to shave his beard down further i'm gonna keep this is great yeah i think you could even go a little less really yeah wow okay i feel like it allows your your jawline to be more prevalent when you go less wow okay i'm just getting unsolicited advice well i like it we'll let the rocks comment dude the rocks can let me know what the beard but i need to keep it this length in case i go to new york ever again or less oh my god that was terrifying it's like actually insane we had like a four-day shoot in north carolina new york shout out to the squad to help us out over there it was super dope with carhartt can't talk about like what we filmed but it's going to come out here in like a month and we actually i think a month yeah no way sick swear both i believe so we got to do it with our buddy jack cook he directed it so it was fun it was a great time we were braving the elements hotter than heck but we got it done and then our literally where we stayed was just in the middle of the woods bro i'm sitting out there and they gave you a little campfire to start so i started a little campfire i'm sitting there fire here's some in the woods it's dark i don't like that um you know i don't have a pocket knife on me i'm like do you carry a pocket knife typically do you i used to all the time i used to carry like my my swiss army like multi-purpose just Just in case, man.

1:45:01Then TSA took it. Do you carry one, Julie? Dude, my girl's like on me about that I don't carry a knife. And it never like dawned on me. I used to carry a knife all the time because my grandpa carried one. And my dad always has carried a knife. So I used to always have one. But like I haven't in a while. But I was out in the woods. And I'm like, you get a little scared by yourself, dude. Jack wasn't sleeping right next to me. He's like up on the mountainside. So I'm like, here's something in the woods. I'm like, holy shit. And it's just pitch black. There's no lights. There's literally nothing.

1:45:27It's just my little fire. and then out of nowhere three deer just pop up in the woods and i was like yo y 'all scared me we're good you guys can stay around don't scared me don't do that again that's funny nuts we had to get up at like 4 a.m and i heard shit outside i go hopefully it's deer not a bear and there was like nine deer like right outside of our cabin just hanging there should have had some carrots man yeah just post it up i don't know if deer like carrots man i think they do Or is that reindeer? I think that... Or is that reindeer? Might be a caribou, man. It's all good. This has been an absolutely insane episode of the 505 Podcast.

1:46:08If you're still here, please hit the subscribe button, drop us a comment, leave us a like, follow Bluestripe, and we'll see you guys all next week. Peace!