Creative Affair with Celine Song & Eva Victor

0:28Hi, I'm Selene Song. thing it's really cool but that's how they do that play like it looks like all the audiences are just talking to each other and they're one of them how swaggy is that it's so cool it's just mind-blowing when you're in the audience and you're like the play has begun the play has begun just like this podcast the podcast has begun yeah oh my god how are you feeling how are you how's premiere i definitely had a martini that's great which for me was like new york martini celebration grown up i mean i can't drink at those things yeah because you're just like protecting yourself no not really even i feel like i just forget to i know well there's no time there's no time and then whenever i'm thinking i'm like i should drink something it's usually like water because i'm like so thirsty i know i know but you know i am doing this like punishing thing where i'm not drinking water to see like what my body can take okay you can't do that i know i know i know how much water do you drink i try to as much as i can are you for real you drink water all the You have to.

1:25Like, also, I mean, I still don't drink enough. Yeah. No one does, I guess. But I'm told to. By who? Mainly my husband. Yeah, well, good for him. That's like love. He's always like, you just need to hydrate. But don't guys, I feel like guys are like obsessed with like having like people drink water. Yeah, what is that? It's like love and also psychoticness and dad shit or something. I think maybe it's something like that. But maybe it's like the one thing maybe they figured out is something that makes them feel good. Water's good. That's the one thing in this world that's like constant for me.

1:54Yeah. And it's like, and you can get it. And it's basically free. In New York anyway. You know what I don't like is watching anyone, but particularly men, chug water for a while. And watching it go down their throat like. I think I like men a lot. You love men? I think I do. Oh my God, tell me everything. Because I see that and then I am like, that's great. That's hot. Kind of. Wait, so tell me why. Because it's like they're fulfilling an essential need. No, I don't know. I think that, I don't know. I find them so charming. You find men charming. Yeah, I do. I find some men very charming. Yeah, I think some men are charming.

2:31But I feel like part of that is you just kind of go like, okay, it's part of, I think, knowing them too. Getting to know them. Because I'm not one. If you see a man you know and love, chug water, that could be very beautiful for you. It could be very beautiful. But also, I think that it's because I just find them to be, I mean, I guess charming is the best word for it. Well, they're so different. They are so different. yeah the weirdest stuff yeah yeah well it's like they were born into a different world in a way completely right like a world that was built for them it's so awesome it is kind of admire that me i mean i don't admire that but i do think that is very uh it brings a different perspective yeah no it's huge too right to walk into a world and then be like oh this is built for me and this is for me right and they're like have some water welcome to my world yeah wait oh wait okay so how are you feeling?

3:21I feel good. Yes. Yeah, I mean, my movie's out in the world. You're just going to come out so soon. And, you know, I've never felt more clear on what the word release means. Yeah. I didn't understand. Oh, yeah. You're having a whole thing. And I feel like I was doing this in 2023. I feel like you and I are having a similar time. Aren't we? How does your feeling right now compare to your feeling then? Oh, I feel like you must know exactly how I was feeling at that time in 2023. Like back when Past Lives was coming out, where you're being introduced to the world in a really beautiful way with you and your film.

4:01And you had just gone to Sundance. It was so wonderful. And then... Shout out to you. Shout out to you. And then, you know, so I feel like you get to come out of Sundance and you have all this like amazing... You're like meeting your audience. Right. It's very, very... magical weird it's very very magical and weird it is pretty weird i mean because something that i think about a lot is that you're visible but not seen sometimes you know yeah because you're very very visible but it's only a handful of people who really see you and even when i talk to when i do interviews and stuff like that i think about that a lot i'm always like oh this journalist this writer really sees me or sometimes you're like oh this i'm just visible to this person oh that's such an important distinction and when you feel seen that's such a euphoric feeling oh yeah well and that's why you that's what you're looking for also that's why we're making a movie yes right and also of course you're so seen in your film you know right yeah as is everyone i agree i mean i think that you can see me really well in my movie yes you know what i mean yes yeah i feel like i'm like really we just because part of it is like we are especially being like uh having as much authority on it right you can I'm sure it's like if you don't have as much authority on it maybe like you know somebody else is in it but for our movies we just get to how lucky are we I mean that's the thing that I feel allows me to sleep a night is like I feel that it is the film I wanted to make and that I am in it in the way I wanted to be in it like heart wise yeah yeah Totally.

5:36Well, I think it's like you got to be in it, and then now it's being, it is, of course, very visible. And you want it to be as visible as possible. Right. So that as many people who see it, you can feel seen in it with them. It's like giving yourself as much opportunity to find people who can see it. Exactly. It's weird, too, because visibility isn't emotional. No. There's nothing to hold on to. No. but it looks shiny and great you know but then I feel like once in a while I'll talk to somebody or something and I'll be like oh wow you actually saw me in the movie that's so magical it's like a drop of water and you're so thirsty and when someone sees how you are in it that is the thing that allows you to believe that it made sense that you did it and that you do it because it's such a hard job Oh, yeah.

6:32Yeah. You mean like being visible? Well, just making a movie. Sure. You're like, it's easy to me. No, it's not easy to me. But I think part of it is that, I don't know, every day I feel like I was on set for my second movie. Yeah. Because I feel like part of making the first movie, though, is that I don't think that I knew how to appreciate it because it was coming at me so fast. Yeah. Like, I was just kind of like, oh, okay, day two. Fuck, day two is happening now. Yeah, and then day three, oh my God, right? And okay, so we wrapped. What happens now? So so much of it is like... Not knowing. Not knowing and figuring out on the way.

7:09But in the second movie, I feel like... Yeah, tell me, tell me like, how did it feel like prepping that? Yeah, tell me like how your mind was. Because you're going to do it soon. Someday. I need to sleep for a second. Yeah, of course, after you sleep. No, but like, I'm really curious about that, obviously. Yeah, well, I think that what's amazing is that you just kind of, I felt really lucky doing it. Like every day I feel like I got on set and I'll find my first CD and I'll just be like, and he'll tell me like everything that isn't going according to plan, things that are going according to plan, all the different good news from the morning.

7:45And then I'll just listen to everything. I'll be like, okay, we're going to figure all those things out. But how lucky that we get to make a movie today. It sounds like we can still go today. Yes. So I think that part of it is so special. And also, I mean, I got to make the movie that I wanted to for both movies, you know? Yes. How did it? Because there's a real gift in the privacy of making a first movie and not having the visibility. Oh, yeah. Because it's just you and your people and no eyes that are watching for weird reasons. And how did you navigate, like, walking into with so much visibility?

8:22like you seriously are like so known and i feel like the percentage of like i mean i don't know how it felt inside of it but like how many people i think saw you not just you know saw the film but like saw you inside it like it was a remarkable moment and is a it's such a lasting film and like how did it feel walking into with that visibility like did it like because you're saying like you felt pretty grateful like that's an amazing way to to process that the like potential pressure of visibility and to be like i'm grateful to be here well is that most of it well i feel like some of it is like and first of all i'm not that known but i feel like in new york of course maybe more yeah because it's you know past lives such a new york movie yeah i made it here already yeah and then also like uh your footprint is so huge and then you know you're taking over a whole blocks to shoot a movie right right and it disrupts it disrupts of course everybody's like what what are you shooting here you know is it worth blocking my truck yeah exactly so but i think it's like some of it is about well you can take that as uh that attention or that all the visibility as a thing that is like really in the way and it's very annoying yes or you can really think of it as like well how amazing that everybody wants to know what my next movie is going to be right right because And what that means is that they're interested.

9:47They're around. They're there. They're waiting. Exactly. And if the dream is that you're somebody who makes culture, if you're somebody who gets to have an audience that you hope to grow and expand and find new corners in, then there's a part of it where you just have to be like, so cool that everybody cares. Why is this therapy? Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's always kind of annoying. Any conversation, I think, has a therapeutic element if you get deep enough. you know they keep us apart they have us direct our own movies and we don't get to talk as much we just don't but but i think that that's why i kind of really like this yeah it's nice you know yeah yeah i feel like it meant a lot because i did the one that i did before with sofia coppola yeah and that i feel like that was one of those moments where you just get to sit and just talk about like what this all actually feels like right i know because it's such a such a weird and you catch each other at really weird times like oh yeah every week is different oh yeah And then my other thing I wanted to say about what you said before, like, I feel like I'm understanding now how little time it is that you're, you get to be on set in the scheme of making a film.

10:56Like, I don't think I understood that when I was walking into it. I thought on set was like the big, and it is like so big, but time wise, it's like this blip in the making of a film. And like the further I get from it, like I understand why that time is so precious like as artists because it's where you really get to work. Yeah. Well, that's what you're all doing together, right? Right. And it's also where the team is the biggest. Yes, it's true. But I do think that being a filmmaker, being a director, it's like you get to know every single person who works on the movie in a way that no one else does.

11:33Yes, and it feels like people come in as like, it's like a quest and like, people come in as like the really important part of the piece. And you meet sort of like after production, which is so hectic and like adrenaline fueled, you get to go do the edit, which is like kind of the balm to production, which is time. But also, it's like a nightmare, but it's also intimate in this way that's new. Like, it's a very cool job. Well, it's like everybody is like showing up for the great affair, right? Like it's you're kind of like having this amazing, beautiful, creative affair for different phases of your making a movie.

12:07Yeah. But then at the end of the day, the whole thing is you're the only one who has the whole picture. Yes. Right. And you're the only one who knows the studio head and who's, you know, signing the checks and also the guy who's carrying the boom mic. Yes. But you're the one who knows all of them. Yes. So in a way, it's like this amazing thing where you just get to see the picture of like every single person who touches this movie. Yes. It's big. And it becomes, and you give the movie away over and over. And that is nice. Oh, yeah. I mean, like when the two of the collaborators? Yes. Of course.

12:42It's like so much, it becomes everyone's film in a way that's like, really, that part I find to be very special. Well, I feel like the moment where the department heads and then everybody, truly, I mean, down to the PAs, when they start to know what movie we're all making. And then my favorite thing is whenever my department heads just know the answers to the questions, there's a moment in prep where it's because it used to be that I'm the only person who could have answers. Yes. And eventually, like my DP will know the right answer. And then he will actually know it before me faster, better. Right.

13:18Wow. And that's really magical. And of course, it happens with cast, too. I mean, in your case, you're in your film. No, but I mean, the cast, like, saved my life. Of course, because, I mean, they are thinking about what they have to do. Well, that is, that I love that, like, someone becomes the, like, advocate for their thing. And then they become the expert. So, and that to me with the casting process, like the joy of giving words to someone and then trusting that they understand that person more than, like the giving away, especially to actors, obviously to other, like to designers too and everyone.

13:55But there was something really special about being able to give away these slices of these people. And then they become whole people in front of your eyes. And you don't totally understand how it got there. But now it's a whole person. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's always better. I always think about this, right? Yeah. Because the person is bringing their whole humanity to the words on the page. Which is like the words on the page is just a suggestion of a person. Yes. Right? It's like walk down this road if you're interested and then continue the road yourself because you're the only one that knows how to do it.

14:29It's such a beautiful collaboration. I know. I love it. Well, I feel like when it comes to the way that the actors show up for it, it's like I feel like if you give them room, but the room has to be something that is within the bounds of what you know about the character. But as long as the walls of that room is clear, the actor can fill it with their soul. yeah it's so magical you know oh how was that with materialists watch it like that's really that's what it was yeah yeah you kind of like it's like a bit of like there is a bit of a um a target like that we all talk about as a target we're trying to hit how do you talk about that we talk about like what i know about the character i have to communicate everything i know about the character yes and then of course there is a always going to be a conversation and my rehearsals are more like table work.

15:21It's not really, we don't really read the lines. We just kind of go through every line and we talk about if anybody has questions, what I know about that line, what the meaning of that line, what's going on. Do you do rehearsals before? What is your rehearsal process? I do it during prep. And then of course when we hit the set, the day begins with rehearsal. For the whole day or just for the scene you're doing? So there's a scene I'm doing. Okay, just checking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scene you're doing, and like when everybody's there and then we all like, but a part of the rehearsal is actually just more like blocking rehearsal.

15:56I agree, yeah. What about you? I mean, also, how do you do, I need to ask, how do you do it while you're in the scene as a main character too? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I prepared everything to the point of insanity because I have a ton of anxiety. And my way through the year before I shot the film was preparing the directing, like, I mean, as best as you can before prep, just like thinking through everything and, and, and storyboarding so that I could kind of, cause I'd never made anything. So I was like, I need to create visuals to understand if I like them. Like I had to sort of draw. And then, um, my acting prep was a lot.

16:36It was just, it was kind of like table work stuff too, where I just sat with my acting coach and we talked about sort of this person's transformation and how much we needed to convey in the few scenes we have before my character goes through something really intense and then sort of this journey and how to just kind of stay honest with every moment and and it was I mean I I did have an acting coach who we just being able to talk out loud is like sort of the director and the actor get to do together often and it was important that I had someone to work with in that way and then like honestly with Naomi she's just so good so it's like so good yeah she's she's amazing she can do anything and like when we met there was just like chemistry and it was much more for me in that relationship in the film about capturing the ease of that um than than any sort of like thing we had to hit because like the beginning of the film was simply trying to create an atmosphere of joy and like welcoming for my audience so that we feel held during like the harder parts.

17:42But yeah, something I miss about like having gone to acting school and doing plays is the lengthy rehearsal process. Like that is the acting dream is to get time and time and time to just talk through everything and to get to do the play in one go. You know, like that is, so how does it, how is it making film? Like, do you like it? I mean, I love it. Yeah. Well, I think what you're talking about, that's something that I feel like is a new way of thinking about it. Because you're right, a play lives and is born and it dies in one night, in one performance. And it lives again and again. And then you do it over and over again.

18:27Exactly. And every night it's like, it lives a little differently because of the audience is different. the actor's mood is different but the thing about film like this is kind of the way that i think about it which is that uh every day when you're doing a scene part of it is that you're trying to part of putting it in the can and finishing that scene is to kill it right so you're kind of like carrying out like because we also shot on film so part of it is like we're literally carrying out cans of film and i would always say well those are just little body parts of this movie right wow and some right and some days you're making little you know like little fingers sometimes you're making a whole face right and you just and you know you're gonna get eyes later right or sometimes you're being like okay we need a today's a day we shoot the whole torso yes like this is a big torso day exactly and then you get all these different body parts and it always i would always laugh because i would watch the cans of film that we shot carried out i was like well there is a little body part that we shot today right bye and then preserve that and exactly and And then in post-production, you basically get to bring all the body parts in.

19:30You sort through it. And then you start to sew it. Like it's kind of like you're Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein. And you're kind of sewing together different body parts. And the goal, at least for me, is to sew it so intricately and so seamlessly that the audience thinks that the end product, which is something that we put together sound, picture, everything this thing that so many, like hundreds of people worked on to create perfect body parts and then just sew it on the right way the whole time is scripted you're dreaming that this Frankenstein's monster is the audience thinks that it has a mother as in like that it was just born that way and then no one made it there's like effortlessness to it so much so that you want the audience to fall in love with just the beauty of this human being to not see the stitches to not see the stitches that's so beautiful and you know what's interesting about that is like something that is crazy about the edit is discovering like okay so this foot can be the most beautiful foot you've ever seen it on its own then the second it goes on the body it's like the body's rejecting the foot oh yeah or like it's just an uglier foot yeah so the foot has to be longer and weirder shaped but only because this body requires that like that part is the fun crazy and it's so crazy that you're trying to build the best body part possible to withstand the future but like you're also kind of like i don't know what's like i i i'm making really thoughtful guesses about what's going to fit together but like man yeah that body on the other side takes a second well but my thing is like i think on your second movie and this is my experience that you kind of get to realize that you're like well i just know that i need to get these few different sizes for the body parts just in case.

21:25Like, I'm like, oh, it's so, because of course when you're trying to, especially when like the set piece is beautiful and everything, you're looking for the biggest, most spectacular body part and trying to get that. But then you have to sort of, there's, you kind of, I feel like, I feel you're already going to know that you have the instinct being like, well, in the end, I know that I might need a smaller version of that body part. Yeah, I might need a tiny finger. Right. Or I might be like, oh, to withstand that body part, I need bigger feet. So when we get to the feet part, then we'll be like, right, like it's kind of like.

21:56I love this. I think it's a beautiful image because it's true. And I think it works in like a hundred ways. Yeah. And the thing is, like, when you're shaving, like, because I shave like, whatever, two frames sometimes. And you're like, well, you're doing that so that like that little stitch that's sticking out, you can't see. Right. Yes. I mean, that work is so euphoric. a little stitch work because that's after you that is something that you it's like a reward and in writing too like I feel like that's what I'm always hoping for is that I get to the place with a project where I'm like I'm reading I'm reading I'm reading there's a stitch out of place and and fixing the stitch like but you only get there after but you only get there after oh my god so long but you don't also don't know when it's gonna happen right because sometimes it's happening in the writing sometimes it happens in production right so you think sometimes so yeah so tell me about how you write like because do you ever go into like how how many stitches should show like because i feel like in my head the idea is like in the writing like the idea that you try to make the body in the writing as uh seamless as possible so that when you get to the next thing and you chop up the body again, you can put it back together and you don't see the first.

23:12You know, like, but do you have, like, is that how you think about it? Or are you like, this is how much I need to know to go into shooting? This is, like, for your writing? Well, I feel like if you can cut something from your script before you go into production, what I learned is that you should. Right. It's never going to show up and be necessary later. Because if you feel like you don't need it, the chances that you don't, right? But I think that that instinct, it's sometimes I found it really hard to navigate when I was making Past Lives, the first movie, because I would be like, I have an instinct.

23:51Like my instinct is that I don't need it, but then you're scared because you don't know. So you're like, okay, well, we'll shoot it. And then we put all these resources into it and then it ends up in the hitting room floor, right? And even in, but I feel like also, So it also has to do with how you want to do it. Like my editor's experience for 10 years has been with Terrence Malick. Right. Terrence, I mean, so I know that he works in a way where he's not worried about how many extra body parts he ends up with. Right. Right. So I think it depends on the filmmaker. Like I feel like different filmmakers probably do it differently.

24:29Totally. Like, but for materialists, I feel like almost everything we shoot is in the movie. but you already edited like through yeah and maybe you're someone who is like i don't want extra body parts i want more time to make the body yeah that's me because it was like that way you can put the resources into the individual body part because you're kind of like well if it means that i can have right like it's always a compromise it's like well if i have to go quick on this i want this yeah yeah well what was the process for you in writing sorry baby you know i had it was I was making the things that he would have told me I cut from the film later yeah you would have had to like actually like chain me up to get me to cut those those are the reasons I made that like there were scenes that were the reasons I felt like the film got made yeah just these like little there were little like interludes throughout the film that I felt were so like important for relief and then something really clear happened in the edit where those scenes felt like just tension it was just diffused and like it was so slow but like and then the film just felt like they were like it was rejecting the scenes that I feel like the idea of them I loved but and then the things that I ended up keeping that felt so essential there were a couple moments on set where I was like I don't this doesn't feel so right that like once they were in I was very like moved by how little I knew and how much guessing was involved in in how the edit would happen and i am so curious like about i don't i don't feel like i'll know exactly what i learned from that until i try again because that's true i don't know if i would i don't know if i have learned to actually cut that thing or if shooting that is actually important for another reason i don't understand but you know what's crazy is that like i'm like freaking out something crazy is that like every movie is a new universe yes so like sure you can make a film but like i've never directed a film not in it so i only know about that flow and like i've yes i've directed this film but i've never directed one that looks like this with this kind of world you know and and that part's obviously the reason why it's amazing to get to make more than one movie and why we want to do that but also it's continually like terrifying yeah because it's like you're building it's like building another body that is a it's like an animal you've never seen or something it's like but you don't know what it's supposed to look like till it's well the problem is that it's a process like life right as in like how amazing that you're gonna get to do another one but so part of that is that you're also risking a lot right but it's like life right so i do think that you're talking about like yeah i wish that we get to make our movies is out it's going great your film is going so great and then you wish that you know like okay well that's it that's the end of my life right right like this would be a great time to end yeah but the thing is like the the movies are over and movie is out into the world and in a way it's like you're right it's not yours because you can't now you can't go to the movie theaters and like try to like fix it and do more time and sound or something you have to let it be yeah and it's like so in a way creatively it's no longer a lie for you because you can't do anything for it there's grief to that no like huge grief but something that i know i really levies that grief for me is to think about the next thing yes and then the only way it's the only way i mean because it's the only thing that you have yeah everything else is put on you like everything else everything you're doing so that you can support the child you made that is now walking and living and it's going to meet their people on their own and you have to be there to support this kid right sent to college i know like but like miss you and i hope you i hope you're okay yeah i hope i like gave you everything you needed you know but then you just have to let that kind of be and then what's what's amazing is that we just can continue um thinking about the next thing well that's that's the only relief oh yeah well i i what i was saying what i was thinking was that you know how you were saying that you want to sleep first before your next movie i don't though i know i said that but i kind of made that up yeah but i want to sleep for an hour and then make yes like about a couple hours you know like just be like two hours that's enough yeah but for me it's like well i um was so lucky to support my movie through all the award stuff so what happened was that after the so I went to the Oscars which was so cool damn it was real damn like it was really cool damn bro and then after I went to that the next day I flew back to New York the day after that I was on a scout van to make materialists no you weren't yes I was and so you knew that whole time you were going to that scout van I knew the whole time that must have been so good for your like soul it was so fun like I feel like because of course you know like past lives you just come up a long grieving process of like well that movie is what it is But of course, that's something to remember for us, I think, in general is that, yeah, so it might be over for us when it comes to that particular movie.

29:39Maybe it's dead to us, but it's alive in the audience. For audience, every audience, new member, every new member of the audience who sees the movie, it comes back to life. Right. It's a baby again for them. Yeah. And then I think it's amazing because then we get to live vicariously through the way that the audience sees it. So if they're like, oh, I really meant something to me, then I feel I always feel like I'm alive again in it. So that I really love. But but then, you know, what I what I think the favorite the best part is, yeah, you're right. Those, you know, 12 hours, 12, 14 hours every day where like they're like 600 people was working on the movie.

30:18Right. We're like in the office on set. And then we're all just like hustling together. Yeah, and it's like you can't, you can't, you have to, it just requires presence. Yeah. And so you, and I think so much of this part of like putting out the film is so about like you, me or whatever. and actually the thing I remember feeling relieved by was people feeling connected to the script and the film we were making because it really does, making the film actually does take the attention off of like how you are and puts it on clarity of the story you're trying to tell and that shift of like, it's not about me, it's about this thing and it stands over here and we're all looking at that, that I find to be really helpful and the thing I'm also missing is like, we're all looking at the thing, not at me you know like that and and that is helpful and there's work like you just have to and there's stuff to do when you're making a movie that is it's good to stay busy with the stuff you're doing because it keeps you on track with what your your point the point of your life is you know well you don't think that they're all looking at you because I feel like I mean for me I feel like being a director always is that you are the my joke is that I'm the mother sister daughter to every single person who's working on the movie I'm like in charge I'm taking care of you in the mother way I'm also your sister in that I'm your equal and we're going to talk it out and we're going to be confidants and we're going to figure that out and then I'm also someone to be protected for my vision, everything, like a daughter.

32:04That's beautiful. And also what I want, everybody tries to get me, right? Get to happen. So I feel like it's this kind of like, you kind of get to be all, you are the center of the, what is it? The kind of like this thing that is being, that we're all doing together, right? So everybody's looking at you because I feel like I answer a thousand questions a day. Right, but they're looking at you in relationship to the piece. Yes, of course. Not like just you for the sake of you. No. You know, like there is something different about, there's like a purpose to, you're like the mother of the thing and of people, no?

32:42But I think that's true. But I feel like how you are as a person will define how we're making the movie. Oh, well, that's totally true. That's true. So in that way, it's like, well, I think about that so much. I feel like how I respond or how I behave, It's going to reverberate throughout the whole set. Right. There's like cells in it. It's cells in it, yeah. Like it's totally intense. It is intense. So in that way, I feel like you're right. My goal, right, my goal is for it to be all about the movie. But as the person who is holding the movie in my mind and who does know everybody from, you know, the highest paid person on set to the lowest person on set.

33:26I know everybody, right? In that way, I just feel like I'm responsible for everyone's, like, everyone's work. Yeah. Like, I'm responsible for everyone's. I couldn't say, and I'm also, like, we've got to think about this, which is that for, like, 12 to 14 hours a day, these grown adults, these grown union, like, adults are giving, like, giving their lives. Yes. for giving their lives for 12 to 14 hours in pursuit of this thing that isn't made yet. Yeah. And I really have a genuine question about how tangible it is. Yeah. Because, of course, it's in a hard drive or it's in a can. There's tangibility to the movie.

34:16But it's also in the air. Yeah, it's about the living thread. The audience is experiencing it, and that's the final product. yes it's the experience of it no you're right it's like it's not the dvd it's the time you spend watching the film yeah and that either it's time either like yeah it lodges itself into someone or it moves through them but either way it's about that person's relationship to what they're experiencing and that is that you cannot hold no i mean you're asking also the audience to give two hours of their lives i mean that to me is the thing that is the thing of like the the honor yeah i feel yes honor that someone spent two hours of their lives yeah and also they got there and they they're leaving they're going back like that sometimes they get babysitters and i'm like no you got a babysitter and they buy candy and it's like because they want to eat candy while watching the movie because they want to escape and they want to feel like it's sensory and they want to like yeah no and that's what we do like that's why i feel like that's why movies took my hardest is because it's like I got to give two hours and get a life back too in a way like there's but it's also a risk because it's like you spend sometimes you spend two hours and it it wasn't all those wasted your time yeah but it's also like but there's also something about like I tried like I was interested in engaging with that and for some reason it didn't move me the way I wanted it to but like I'm gonna go back like people go back because they're like I'm gonna and that's why there's so many movies yeah it's because like and that's the that's the coolest is that there's not one movie it's like oh yeah you find what moves you oh yeah but you have to give it enough time to like find what moves you oh yeah and also like yeah it's a it's a question when you walk into a thing and I feel like in a world where we're everybody trying to be risk averse it is really hard to be like hey take a risk on this thing yeah right it's a original story right yeah it's from this person that you may have heard of maybe you haven't yeah and uh i think you'll be great or it could be right right so it's such a wild thing to promise and then of course as everybody becoming like well my time is worth this and there's a lot of risk averse uh culture yeah right it's kind of hard to be increasingly or it's always hard to be like hey like take a risk on you know giving us like two hours of your life right it's a huge ask it's a big ask but my thing is like if you were able to think about the responsibility and i mean use the word honor right it's like some of it is about like really seeing it as like well it is an honor to have it so i'm not going to uh disrespect it yeah right and then and it may be that like um I know at the end of the day, all I'm doing is that I'm risking as much as you.

37:10Yeah. Right? I mean, yes. And I'm giving you everything I have. And that's doing the stitches. Yes. And making the stitches. It's like I'm giving you every, every, I'm caring. I care so much. Well, I'm giving you, I'm giving you, you know, like what a final mix is 12 hours days. And I'm there the whole time. And then, of course, my sound designers are there 12 to 14 hours a day. And my thing is, well, these are people who have devoted their lives to sound design, for example. Well, like my DP, it's somebody who devoted his life to image making. You're going to see these incredible grown-up professionals give everything they know, giving all of themselves to the art of this thing.

37:56And my thing is, well, that's what we're actually able to offer. because if you show up for two hours you get to see all of us do our yeah craftsmanship i was i've been a writer for like 20 years you know like we're all showing up basically being like doing giving you like not just like a little bit of image a little bit of sound a little bit of writing we're showing up to give you our whole life right yeah because my my script or my dp's um images it's not coming from like ether you didn't just like plug it into you plug into ai and then you know pop it out what happened was that you you know build it from the ground exactly like we worked we failed we worked again and then right i missed that part i know it is really good you're gonna get there you're gonna do soon you know what i mean you're gonna get to be on set like two seconds you know it's just it's i totally it's like i actually can't believe it's real what just being able to do this i know it's crazy it's really cool it's really cool i know i just there's so many parts of it and every time you do a new part you're like what are you talking about that's part of this job like it's such a special job oh yeah it's such and it's true like really lucky yeah it's a really crazy thing to have people what you're saying about like they're giving their days of their lives to create this with you and and it's supreme focus and it's everyone doing the best that they can and that is it is like so life affirming to be in a space where everyone's doing that yeah it's very rare of course and everyone who's there understands why you're there so there's no explaining like what we're doing i mean talk about being seen yes yes i feel the most seen when i'm on my set that's where i feel the most seen outside of like my home yes you know i feel like that's a place where i feel like oh i know everybody uh sees me because i feel like it's also where i feel like very very very human yeah you know because like i don't know if some of it is about like it's just the energy of it or just the passion of it there we're all like yeah we're not showing up to we're not here to fuck around no we're doing this yeah you know and once you're in your like once the timeline starts yeah that should just fucking go i know and it's so cool and i think it's like and also you get exactly how much you care out of it right i think about that in terms of like how much like care is involved and i'm always like well you if you don't care then you'll get less out of it yeah and then if you care a lot you gonna get a lot out of it yes right just as a person yes no no totally yeah this is so nice talking to you seriously seriously i can't believe it um so i feel like something i genuinely i'm like well were you able to direct yourself in your like or did you kind of like go in like how many takes would you do yeah it would be like it would be like well the first few days we scheduled lighter because I we had to figure out the flow I'd never done it and I think we usually the flow would be I had a stand-in which was so helpful so I set up the shot with a stand-in and then I would do it and then watch that and I would only really watch that for shape like is this how the shot's meant to move is is there anything in this that doesn't feel like what I'm what I want then once I we felt what the shot was figured out and and any adjustments had been made I would do a probably a run of it until I felt like it was what I wanted.

41:37And then I would usually watch what I liked, but without sound. And it was mostly just like, is the vibe of, is it there? Because I feel like I knew what happened emotionally, or I just knew what happened. But I just wanted to make sure I saw it through. But I didn't usually watch with sound because I was like, ugh. And sometimes stuff was heavy. And I was like, it's easier for me as a director to just see shape. and then um i would i would know pretty soon i would the thing that was efficient was i noted myself so there was no sort of like having to figure out our flow like it was i i knew the adjustments i wanted to make performance-wise pretty quickly and it was you know really nice to be sort of working with actors from an act in scenes as a director because there's sort of this like inherent trust because like i'm in the trenches too like we're both being really vulnerable and there were a couple scenes in the film where i directed two people who and i wasn't in the scene and i was it was like a totally different experience of like oh i want you to know i i'm with you like it's hard like but you're vulnerable you're the ones in front of the camera and like i want you to trust that i see that that's insane and like and sometimes i would be like oh i like i would it would be like a learning curve of trying to figure out how to get in there yeah and how to have find language for those people but um yes wait what i feel like the reason why i was asking is because i feel like such a big part of my relationship to my actors is my objectivity right because they have to so fully embody the subjectivity of the characters that they're not I don't I never want to ask my actors to also be in charge of the objectivity yes and of course like I am working with like three like just insanely professional like excellent like lifelong actors because like all three of them like Dakota Chris and Pedro like all of them just have such experience like like just working yeah right so the part of the thing that I really found is that like and I think this is something that I found in any actor who has really long experience working is that they have a way to see their performance a little bit objectively because part of it is protectiveness right yes and then of course after you build a certain amount of trust and they're they never able to um release that and let go and then just let it be a subjective work and I think that to me getting to that place is something that I'm working on and usually the first week right yes and is it with each person a different way to Of course.

44:18Yes, yes, of course. Because if it was a different person, it's like you have a different relationship with each person. Yes. And I think that it's like, and I think that. Mother, sister, daughter. Mother, sister, daughter, right? It's like you kind of have to approach the, every relationship and also every scene differently. Because it's also like some scenes are bigger scenes for one character. Yes. Or even like within the scene, the whole, I'm like, well, first part of the scene is all about Dakota's character, Lucy. And the second part of the scene is all about Pedro's character, Harry. yeah so we're kind of always dealing with like um you know it's a bit of a sparring yeah of like it's a movie where it's a sparring of ideas so so much of it has to do with like each person really committing to the subjectivity so i have to then be able to tell them that i'm in charge of the objective as in like i'm the person who tells them how it reads yes right so it's like i can take that burden off of you and tell you i have i feel like that's always the offer and i think that usually the first week is an opportunity for all of us to build that trust yeah right so that we can all walk away from it feeling like it's really awesome yeah and also I mean the way that all three of them are like uh like for example when I'm noting the reason why I was asking about noting yes is that it's like the rhythm of noting is different for each actor so I was just thinking like um how those one note oneself because like well the problem with like because I'm a very bad actor are you I'm really bad really when have you done it I've not really done it you just I'm in general bad but I was in a play once and I did a short film once okay and the problem with me in that situation is that I will do a piece of performance and then in the middle of a performance I'll be noting it right but then that is really connected to the way that I note as a director because I'm usually writing something down about what I want to note halfway through like while it's happening yeah yeah like I'll hear something I'm like oh I know and then it's also so I mean that part is so fun because I also know why it's not the right thing right it's almost like your notice and it's like you answering a thing you had a question about that person.