Girl, Whatever with Charli xcx & Aidan Zamiri

0:28Hi, this is Aidan Zamiri. someone that could write a wikipedia page about me it's me when how long have you been a fan of mine great question great question okay so um i think i think i must have come across you and around this around the time of you ha ha ha wow which in 2025 the year we are no longer in that song was kind of going viral on TikTok. And you know, I think it's a really inspiring TikTok trend. The girl whatever trend. I didn't do it. I think you could still. I think it's a bit late now that we're in 2026. We're in January 2026. The reason I think that trend was actually really exciting was it sort of represented freedom.

1:19Yeah, absolutely. The ethos of it was, girl, whatever. Totally. Yeah. Let's tell them how we met. You go first. Okay. Okay, okay. So, all right, my first meeting. By the way, I'm trying to put some structure in this because I know that if we don't, we will literally just talk about some bullshit for an hour. I think you'll be doing a really good job of structuring a really good conversation and I think people are going to be like, bloody hell, those two are pretty good at this whole... Yeah. All right, so the first time we ever met was, well this is my first meeting with you but not your first meeting with me it was either 2013 or 2014 I think it was 13 I think it was 13 because I think I was still or just finished high school and I went to a music festival called Tea in the Park and I remember telling you about this and you said I vowed to never go back again but you did go back again the next year did I?

2:09I looked it up oh cool I'm the Wikipedia you had a midday slot it was a kind of time in your life when it was sort of big buffalo boots a little pink nightie you had an all girl band very cool you were saying songs like super love yeah one of my favorites how do you feel about that super love yeah you know i know it's a fan fave but it doesn't particularly speak to me anymore sonically okay as a song i just yeah i don't know but um i know people like it i'm doing you know at that point in time when i was making music i was doing an accent in a lot of my songs. What was the accent? It was sort of like this Scandi accent because I was recording a lot in Sweden.

2:54You love Sweden. I know, I really love Sweden. I didn't know it ran that deep. It really runs so deep, my love for Sweden. So because I was working with Patrick Berger who, he produced I Love It, he produced Dancing On My Own, like, and we were working in Stockholm together a lot and so when I did the first demo for I Love It, for example, the way that I sang it was like, I love it, you know. and so in Super Love which Patrick made with me it's very much like as I'm doing this like hey hey Charlie kind of a kind of staccato Scandi a lot Skål Skål yeah wow so that was kind of in your sort of pseudo Swedish yeah because obviously as you know whenever I go to Sweden or hang out with Swedish people my accent changes and I start kind of talking a little bit Like up and down, hey, Shirley.

3:47Let's get the snooze. And I can't just be like, yeah, yeah, I think about that a lot. I'm like, I think about that a lot. Wow. So anyway, you were... Sorry, okay, so yeah, imagine yourself in that zone. You, personally, imagine you with a Swedish accent rattling around your head. Me with actually a much stronger Scottish accent. And I think just to help your visual of me, because I would sort of describe what you were doing, I kind of had I think I'd sort of tried to dye my hair silver but it was sort of a kind of gross yellowy blonde that I put loads of silver shampoo in and it kind of had bluey sort of marbled almost tips but no I don't think it was I think it was bad and then anyway I was sort of front row of your midday slot but that actually was the only row there wasn't about 15 people in the crowd.

4:39But obviously people that got it. You were early. I was, yeah, it's hard being ahead, as a wise woman once said. So yeah, saw that. And then it wasn't until much later that we actually met. I think we actually met at Caroline Polacek's birthday party at The Cow in Notting Hill. There were a lot of whelks in dishes and trays. Are you sure you didn't have a single whelk? I didn't have a whelk. Did George have a whelk? I don't know. I remember leaving hungry. Why? That's what I felt. Because there were a lot of whelks and it was just a lot of crustaceans, which is not my MO, especially on a hot day upstairs at the Cow in Notting Hill.

5:24It was sweaty in there. It was warm. And there were a lot of whelks. I think I was quite well fed, but the thing is, I've got quite a strong stomach. So I can really... I know, yeah. Yeah. I can muscle in. Yeah. Pardon the pun. oh no yeah so that's where I feel like we first met but I was obviously like very aware of your work oh before yeah of course from before because I feel like you'd done a lot with Twigs you'd done a lot with Caroline you'd I think I'd done something with Jonathan done stuff with Jonathan so obviously artists who I you know just like familiar with and like seeing their work a lot I always really liked your work and then we'd cut we had like almost worked together a few times yeah it was kind of crash era stuff as well yeah i remember actually imaging our mutual friend who is your creative director and we've made loads of stuff together i remember she actually reached out earlier some for some crash things but it was before i had like a us visa i won't fully tell this story but there's that rolling stone shoot that didn't happen for a few reasons yeah but we won't go there well yeah but she didn't like my creative anyways i think anyways anyways but yeah no i was i've always been familiar with your work and i guess when was the first time we worked together uh okay so our first thing we almost do you know what we almost did you were texting me and i was and i remember being like oh my god try the xdx just follow me and then you dm'd me and you said could you come and do like a lyric video for Beg For You?

7:04Oh. Yeah. Really? Check the texts. Check the DMs. Lyric video? Why was I hitting you up for that? I know. I was literally like, you were like, no. Lower tier. I was about to jump at the chance. Lyric video. Oh, sorry. No, it's okay. You didn't kind of see the potential at that point. And then proper first time was we did. Our favorite brand. We did an amazing shoot. that honestly felt like an editorial. Sorry. We did an amazing shoot for famed European retailer, Zalando. I'd do it again, actually. I'd do it again. Do you know what? It was fun. We got to do whatever we wanted. We went to Berlin.

7:47Yeah. Yeah. Went to Berlin. Period. And we had an amazing set designer called Steph. She did a fantastic job where we had a hole in the floor and your scarf sort of goes into the hole. We had a big sort of burning backdrop behind you. Who did you say you looked like when we did that photo? Remember, you had a kind of collared shirt. Oh, Samuel Peeps. Samuel motherfucking Peeps. I didn't know who it was and I had to Google it. And I do. It's giving Samuel Peeps. You kind of looked Samuel Peepage. And it was a really fun time. And we bonded and we went, oh, we're connected. Yeah, we, yeah, yeah.

8:35And then it was a few months later and you messaged me and said, hey, got a song. And then so that it was more encrypted as a safer message. You sent me 360 on WhatsApp. Yeah. And I went, this is a mental song. Yeah. I'm so Gabriette. Well, that's actually not what it is. Oh, shit. Fuck's sake. Call me Gabriette, you're so inspired Yeah, yeah Roll that back Fake fan Whatever You know what's actually really interesting To go back to the Zalando shoot Sorry, yes I didn't mean to move on from that so quickly No, no, yeah, I mean So much to unpack there Main event, main event No, you mentioned the scarf Going into the hole in the ground So just to explain like this image it's like i'm in like a very very long scarf yeah and i'm in a room i'm sat on the floor yeah of a bedroom and there's a hole in the floor of the bedroom and the scarf that i'm wearing like kind of drapes into the hole in the ground and that was like when i knew i was like oh you have like a humor that i have i'm not even joking yeah that specific image well it's just like i I think it's hard to find, at least I find, that it's hard to find a creative collaborator who's willing to risk being silly and kind of surreal and ridiculous, but also think that that actually is high art as well.

10:15Obviously, Arcelando shoots, high art. You're interested in playing with stupidness, but in a way that's also actually really beautiful. And I think that actually like that kind of a thing, those kind of images have, has become like a pretty big part of our dialogue as collaborators, because I think we are both into beauty and we're both into emotion, but at the same time we can also, you know, like do these like really stupid, ridiculous, like surreal, funny, dumb things and mix them into the work like for example like in the 360 video i have to like smash through a wall yeah you know and yeah all of it's dumb as hell it's dumb but there there is also you're on top of a man on a gurney yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like there's just i don't know i i really i think it's really charming it's what i really like about our work together that we you can make something beautiful, but there is also just this like ridiculousness to it.

11:21You know? That's really cool to hear. That's how I, yeah. And I find that a lot with like a lot of your images actually like with, I think it's the Billy Rolling Stone one. Is she in like a harness? Yeah, she's like being a stunt woman basically. Yeah, and I just think, I don't know, that there's something sort of like funny about that, but I think it's it's sort of yeah it's like surreal that makes me really I mean I think I've never I've never articulated it like that it's really cool to hear you say that because I do think that's also what really draws me to your work or your identities as an artist and all the things that you put out because it's a combination of taking it seriously and done seriously yeah and there's like a yeah there's just this humour I think to both of us but also we're also very like obsessed with the internet and with uh culture and which is inherently like stupid dumb and funny but also very very profound and like feeding so much of life in a way and it's sort of like i don't know i think we're both kind of obsessed with that i think so too and i feel like i trained my eye or output on things like tumblr so it was like the way that this combination of kind of low brow stuff and high brow stuff and it being stupid, but also being extremely sincere and it being all these things at once and like not filtering too much, just allowing all of it to kind of come in, compute and then spit something out.

12:53Is that, was there something like that for you when you were starting to make music or make art or whatever? Yeah, of course. I mean, I remember when I went to art school, I went to Slade and I dropped out after a year because, well, I kind of sucked. I don't know if you've seen my fine art. Listen, the sort of morph suit, multicolored, like... No, no, that was before. Oh, that was before. That's what got me in. Oh, wow. Like Slade is kind of like, in ways, quite like a classical school. And I was not at all making work. Were they not into it when you were there? No, they weren't like not into it.

13:33I just, I found it really hard because I was someone who at art school was like, I love Andy Warhol. You know, and everybody was like, okay, you fucking lose that. You know, it was in the eyes. You know, it was like, oh, you're like a basic bitch. Right, it's like, yeah, heard of art. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. You know, but I think like, to go back to what you were saying about like, the high, low and things like that. it's like I was always really fascinated with like that world of like the factory and the characters within it and like that kind of time in in New York and the way that like product was being created at the same time as art art and commerce as we're like very obsessed with talking about and I think like for me you know when I was first started making music and making videos like whatever I was doing it's like as same as you like I was kind of growing up on Tumblr and on the internet on MySpace and I think there is like an equivalent of that kind of like grabbing for um images and party culture and lifestyle and people via the internet in the same way that like that era of time, like the factory era, it was kind of about like persona and going out and making art and like obviously two completely different things.

15:10I was sat at home on my computer trying to like feed myself. But I think that kind of like ingestion of like persona and partying and art and fun kind of all became such a part of my language. I think that's why, you know, the kind of factory thing or party culture or any of these things, it feels like it's vital or it's timely and it's in conversation with the world around it. And that's maybe the work that we really like as well or we really respond to. I think that we both gravitate towards work that like comments on how work is made. I think we're both really into meta stuff, which is like why you like love Kaufman and like whatever you know it's like like when a song knows it's a song or like when a film knows it's a film you know what I mean and I actually kind of why I like when a photo knows it's a photo do you enjoy being a voyeur as like a photographer and a director because you don't really have voyeur vibes I don't yeah most like photographers and directors are a little like oh yeah perverts yeah not to generalise but you know what I mean it's like a horniness and obviously it's like that's not happening with us.

16:24Exactly. Not yet. Well, not, who knows what could happen on the 24 podcast. It could get really, no. No. No, guys. I'm blushing. No, I actually think one of the main things that I find appealing in making work, particularly when it's in collaboration with someone else, is actually that storytelling element. I don't think of myself or I don't see myself as a director or a photographer where it's like, this is my world that I want people to fit into. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like some photographers and directors that I really love and admire do operate like that and it's cool and they have that, but it's kind of not the way that I think.

17:04So actually really, I think my favourite part is it being kind of... Collaborative? Yeah, being in collaboration and being able to kind of find a story and do it justice or whatever, you know? Yeah, I will say, like, you are a really good collaborator. Like, I love collaborating with you. I know I can be a bit, like, crazy sometimes. I don't think you are. I actually really don't think you are crazy. You let me, like, do what I need to do. You know, like, if I'm having a tantrum or... Yeah. Don't nod so quickly. I mean, preemptively. I would let you have a tantrum. I think of what that nod is about.

17:43But you've never done that. You're really good with people, actually. And I think, I actually think that's why so many people, whether it be like Timothy or Billy or fucking, I don't know, like me, Pink Pantheras, like all of these different people that you've worked with, I feel like you, I don't know, you really like bring out like really great things in people and it makes people want to work with you again. Like, and I think you also develop really different languages with different people. like obviously you've worked you've been working a lot with timothy and i feel like your language with him is like really different from like our language together and i think that's that's really special and cool to hear that thank you um are you gonna make more movies obviously you've got one with me yeah which we should probably talk about but let's just talk about the other ones the other ones first i okay so are there others obviously we have ideas I've not got any mother movies right now to do No, but like you're gonna Yeah, oh, 100 % I mean, hey, if we talk a little bit about how this came into being It was like, you know, we obviously I felt like I'd found a really amazing Like an extremely important collaborator in my life And art and all these things And obviously I think we both really felt that way And, you know, we had kind of spoken Even briefly about like Oh, we should maybe make a film together because you know that was the direction you knew you were headed in and i think it's something that i making films is like something that i maybe had hoped to do at some point in my life i actually wondered that if that was like in there do you know what i think i've spent my i spent most of my life and like my career so far um being pretty reactive to what what the the things that were at me and I really I'm really glad I've been like that yeah I've not had a clear plan of action because I think that feels unreasonable in the world we live in things change constantly and I don't have any sort of specific like filmmaker heroes or people that I'd be like oh that's the life exactly yeah yeah you know i watched some of them i loved marty supreme yeah well done timmy and i remember okay do you know what when i was like when i was a teenager i remember feeling like i sort of made a decision to be like anything that was distracting me is the thing that would i would try and make my main focus so that i i was like well if i'm distracted by obviously i care about it more and then that's kind of that's wise yeah a kind of rule of thumb that i sort of gave myself generally and it honestly resulted in like me doing all this so i've been an amazing distraction whatever kind of pulled my focus i think became i just like let let that be my focus and the reason i maybe looked towards the idea of doing a film at some point in my life because it felt like it was a way to sort of really pin down an idea and and really see it through from like start to finish in a really full way and that's why I like love the idea of staying in this medium you know and that's not to say I'm not going to continue to be distracted or yeah or find other things like you know I I do feel really excited by the say for example the work I've done with Timothy for context Timothy and I made a lot of stuff that's sort of in support of the films that he puts out but they're sort of specific weird little capsules or like you know it's really cool that he's game for that.

21:19Yeah, I think so. Because I think that's kind of rare. Yeah. I remember when I saw your Marty ping pong video. Firing ping pongs at Timmy's head. Yeah, I remember being like, oh, this is kind of like, feels like an album rollout. And I don't think that that happens too much in film. Yeah. And that's one thing that I've been really like, super interested in with our film. it's like I don't know it's like well why would we just obviously there's so much more like protection around film I think and in in a way like you know with music it's like everything leaks all the time it's almost sort of a part of like the law of something like people waiting for the leaks and you know do you like leaks I used to hate them and now I don't care right right because I think it's it's like fine it's like I don't actually think it like does a disservice I I think it just like amplifies noise.

22:14So I kind of think it's cool. But I think with film, there is still sort of a bit of a old school format to how to release something and how to roll something out. And that's why I think like what you and Timothy have done at different, you know, throughout different films, whether it be like the Dylan movie or with Marty, I think it really like punctuates the landscape and it feels like something just different. and cool and pop. It's like pop. Cool. I'm so glad you, because also I think that's also part, I feel like that's why we really connect because you are specifically also really interested in, or correct me if I'm wrong, but interested in not just like being an artist, but what it means to be an artist or what the industry feels like or what you can do in that space.

23:00Film is kind of this, you know, it's this very traditional medium. Maybe I don't want to say that. It's like, you know, it's a medium which is like established and there are as you said there are ways of of rolling things out um and the idea of basically doing something new or doing something fresh is really exciting so i mean to answer your earlier question i'd love to keep making films because you get to do it in this really full way but do you do you feel the same way do you feel like you are excited to to use film as a new way to express your... Yeah. I mean, I feel... I feel like not... I mean, at the end of last year, I felt like not super inspired by music as a whole.

23:49No, I remember you saying, yeah. I'm just, it's like... You were almost like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm glad you're not. You've made music. I've made music, yeah. But it took a second. and to be fair it always does after a record I'm like I'm done I'm never making music again but this time it felt really like oh like I don't understand like what music is really? I was just like you felt like there was nothing I was just like this feels a little like interesting I couldn't like get the juice I couldn't like I was like I don't know I was just kind of like, I don't feel particularly like music is like doing it for me right now.

24:36It doesn't feel dangerous. It didn't feel very dangerous. Had you always felt like it was? Yeah, I think it felt... And was that the first time you'd felt that way? I think, yeah, I think in the past I had always felt that music was like volatile and dangerous for me. You know, like I could get my highs and lows from it and my kind of like adrenaline rushes and things like that. Cool. And then I was kind of like, oh, everything feels pretty flat. Everything feels pretty safe. Wow. Like I wasn't feeling particularly challenged by much. And so I think that's when I kind of began. I mean, even prior to that, I already was sort of leaning into like acting things.

25:15But I think at that point I was like, yeah, I really I'm not really going to focus on like making music right now. You wanted to find something that adrenaline. The adrenaline, yeah. So is that kind of being your driving force a lot of the time when you're making stuff? Yeah, I think so. Well, I think my driving force in life is to never be bored. Yeah. Like I talk about it with my therapist all the time. It's like the second I have to like sit in something. I mean, you're a bit like this. Yeah, we really are similar in that way. Except you don't like to be alone. I actually do like to be alone.

25:44You can't really be alone. You're always like, hello, where are you? Yeah. I'm like, I'm alone. Yeah, otherwise they don't exist. Yeah, yeah, totally. No one sees me. No, but I, I think for me, it's like the second I feel bored. You feel dead. Yeah. Had you always been like that? Yeah. Oh my God. I mean, it is also a problem. It's like, I have to work on it. Like I have to work on it. I had to really work on it, especially in relationships, you know? And so like with George, it's like, I've really like, I found my person. who I'm like actually I can be like really calm and really still with you because stillness with George isn't boring it's actually really fun and other things I'm like yeah it's true because I have a really similar thing I have a really similar it's honestly a FOMO for life in general yeah yeah a general fear of missing out and kind of wanting to like kind of see as much as possible it's that want to like why would you not like why would you not try yeah I think it's like it's also like sometimes it can be humiliating because if you suck you know but you know what i'm like that's actually a risk i'm willing to take i'm finally i'm willing to take the risk because everything's embarrassing anyway as sky ferrera she really hit the nail on the head on the bloody head yeah bloody hell well done so like fuck it because you know what i actually felt really bored as a child a lot i felt me too yeah i think wow great we're backing some stuff I felt really, really bored How did you get out?

27:23Because you were like suburban Like a suburban countryside child Yeah And so was I I was like very close to the M11 roundabout Oh, wow Well then, come on, you weren't bored You had so many cars to look, spinning around

27:37There's one I didn't live on the M11 roundabout Alright, shit, now I guess Right in the middle But anyways, yeah I don't know why Yeah, but sorry, being a suburban kind of bored teenager yeah yeah and and the thing is you know i was actually talking to i spoke with uh with jack antonoff about this it's like he was like in new jersey he's a similar bored teenager well yeah but he but the thing is it's like it was like new york was just over the hill like it's not actually that far away and that was the same same thing with me it was like london was actually not that far like you could kind of see it in your peripheral vision right like it was like so close you could almost reach out and touch it and that in a way it was almost like that drove yeah the drive that drove yeah you were like almost there the drive was so there to get to go because it wasn't actually like super far away and i think like for me as well like you know going back to like the internet like I was watching so much stuff happening in London online like Nook the Mall yeah cool did you go to Newcomore no like I went to two really I played at two kind of towards the end whoa and you were like 15 yeah that was my parents did you okay did you feel like when you done that was that you're like I've done what I've been dreaming of doing I was like did you feel that yeah i was like oh i'm cool just for clarity newcom was like a club night very sort of like new rave yeah it's a lot of like like like plastic shutter shades tea pot necklace situation is that you i had a teapot necklace yeah no way yeah big way right and the necklace was like made out of ribbons and then you might like wear a cone on your head it's kind of almost like there's a kind of like a accessorising American apparel vibe to it.

29:33Exactly. Bright neon colour. It felt very like disposable, Primark-y. I think they like know. I don't know. I think they know like what New Rape is. Who? Who's that? I don't know. Who's listening? Who's listening? Well, that's the thing. I'm just sort of doing it for like just my mum. I guess my mum's watching or something. Yeah, my mum too. Yeah, good point. My mum's definitely going to watch. Oh, yeah? Oh, my dad definitely will watch. Do your parents like, Like, do they engage with your work? They don't have Instagram. Okay. But they do, my mum does, she told me she Googles me, which is actually really fun.

30:08Well. Does she have Google alerts on? I don't think she's, mum, do you know how to do that? I don't think she knows. Right. Maybe, I don't want to doubt her, you know, media literacy or Googling skills, but she is. Wait, I have a funny thing, sorry. Sean Price Williams told me that he has Google Alerts on for us. Isn't that so sweet? Me and you? Well, it's actually more me than you. It's always that way, isn't it? Oh, look. I thought that was quite sweet. I also, I don't know if he was lying. He could have been lying. Well, that's really sweet. I don't have, I don't think she's got Google Alerts on, but that's how she's sort of keeping up.

30:45So she'll mention, you know, my mum watched the guest music video. And? And she said, she said this takes some getting used to but you know I think my mum was kind of there's a lot of kind of underwear being ripped off and I think it was actually very open minded of her to say great great stuff you got going on there but anyway we got to do well but yeah I feel similarly like being bored as a teenager I had no real frame of reference for like what you could do as a job or what was feasible or what was in scope. What I think is really cool about you almost like knowing as a 15-year-old... I guess you were writing music for 14 years.

31:27I didn't really know. Or going for it, maybe. That's what I mean. Going for it, yeah. As a 14-year-old. It's very cool to be that unembarrassed. You know what I mean? As a teenager. Yeah, but also, don't you think... I mean, I'm a bit older than you. Obviously, you're 30 now. Only five minutes older, yeah. You're 30 now that we're in 2026. Yes, exactly. Shit. and did you make it into the list? The list of 29 directors who are 29. Did you? Well, do you know what? In theory, we finished the film when I was 29. Right. But unfortunately... But you can still be in 30 under 30. Do you know what? Because you're 30.

32:07They did. Did they? What did you say, no? Not this bit. But I was like, I was kind of a bit like, it's too much about money. right I just didn't want to present myself as an entrepreneur well they asked me to like apply don't cut that and I was like I just like don't want to be an entrepreneur cool which is you know that's cool that's cool but when I was 14 there was so there was just a lot less embarrassment in general right because even though obviously it was like we were all documenting ourselves on the internet, whether that be like MySpace or MSN or Bebo or whatever. It was sort of like it was different than it is now.

32:56The word cringe didn't really... No, no. I don't remember thinking... I was so cringe online. Yeah, in good. And yeah, thank God. Like, thank God. But it's like, you know, it's just so different now. I remember when I first heard about Billie. Eilish. Yeah. And she, how old, I mean, what, she was like 14 when she blew up? Maybe, yeah, something like that, right? I just remember being like, wow, this is a girl who has so much taste. Yeah, yeah, genuinely, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so much taste, like, really knows how to, like, compile an image. And have a point of view. And have a point of view.

33:34and it's really like well thought out and solid and you know then I think about me when I was 14 and my god it's so but I didn't have I didn't have this and I'm not saying that this is why Billie's work was like that like honestly she really just does have great taste yeah I think so but like when I was 14 I didn't have like the parameters of embarrassment to keep me from doing insane stuff I feel like when you're thinking about the way things could be received or the commentary around your work, it definitely makes you think twice about stuff. For example, when I play a demo to someone that I haven't played for before, I'm suddenly when I'm sitting listening to the song, playing it to a friend, suddenly I hear the song in a different light.

34:31I'm like, oh my god, what are they thinking about? now they're thinking about this. Wait, that lyric was really lame. Da-da-da-da-da-da. But like when I was 14 and like dressing up and taking pictures of myself and like making music, I wasn't thinking about that at all. Yeah. There was like a freedom. You didn't have an audience in your head. No. And that's why a lot of it is really cringe. Which is cool. That's why I made a song called I Want to Be Darth Vader. Fuck yeah. Or Dinosaur Sex. Oh, so amazing. Do you know those songs? T-Rex, Dinosaur Sex. Yeah, I obviously got there post-pumously. Watch Me Roar.

35:03watch me be like a dinosaur. So cool. It's so cool. You were 15. Dinosaur sex. I was 14. I was 15. That's a little crazy. It's like a bit, do you know what I mean? Like, that is a bit mad. That is bonkers. But it is really cool that you did it. No shame. That is so exciting. I would, on stage, I would, like, I'd be, like, going like this. Like, fully insane. And I was wearing, like, odd shoes. And I had, like, bows in my head. Yeah, it was, like, totally embarrassing. But I had no, I was just like, this is great. I really wish I was able to completely murder any idea of an audience inside my head at any point.

35:42Do you know what I mean? Are you thinking about an audience? More just the thing that you said, when you start to imagine, you start to really project things onto when people are experiencing your stuff. Sometimes it's helpful. It's funny when you said that thing about a demo, or playing a demo to someone, and you suddenly hear it completely differently. it's like now when we were making the film it was like anytime anytime I had to watch and edit the whole way through I wasn't really able to watch it alone I had to bring a new person in completely you see things you feel things whatever that you've never felt before you've never noticed before or whatever I remember the first time I saw it I was like why are you looking at me just chill the fuck out well you know and I'd be like and you'd be like I had to see where your eyes widened no true I mean nightmare experience to watch this film with me I have to say for anyone that had to do it I'd give you great thanks it is horrible because obviously the vibe would be kind of like I'd press play on it and then I'd kind of sit like this the whole time Do you think we should say the name of our film?

36:36Oh god yeah It's called Sorry The Moment Yeah that's it I don't think we need to say anything else about it No just watch it Yeah well hopefully If you guys don't like it There's only 100 people watching this and they're all our friends thanks guys for watching I think they I think they were this is my prediction right I feel like when this I'm suddenly aware of the audience now when this comes well we were talking about them we're being meta we were just talking about it now we're going to talk about it my thought is when this comes out there's sort of like I mean I don't even want to like be too generous when you say this comes out this podcast this podcast video I don't even know where this goes whatever when this comes out I reckon there'll be 5 ,000 people who are like interested in it and then I think after the first five minutes there'll be a huge drop off and then I think maybe like 100 people will stay to the end because we're like banging on I have a different theory I have a different theory I think more than 5 ,000 all of them get the analytics back I think it will be top to bottom because we'll add in like explosion sounds right oh that's cool there's going to be one where you do that like some ticking time and stuff like that things that drive up tension you know what else I actually think I think actually maybe like even less than 5 ,000 people will watch this because actually what will happen is there'll be some clips that appear on TikTok I keep breaking the fourth wall and then people will just watch them instead oh they were funny there let's put that up on the line I have a skewed perspective because I've watched all of your interviews in full right yeah every podcast I really like the Emma Chamberlain one yeah That was a really good one.

38:25They're all great. I really liked the one you did with that. There was a lady talking to you and you were on a stage and you had a big white dress on. Oh, that was... Wow, you watched that. That was... Was that for Resident Advisor? Yes. Yeah. I also thought that was... I thought she was really good. I thought I was... Okay. Well, I thought I was really good. Yes. I mean, like, she allowed you to be amazing. I thought it was quite funny in that. Yeah, you were great. I thought you were really fucking funny. I felt funny. You know why? I was a tiny bit hungover Like today Are you a bit hungover?

38:59I kind of I didn't Because I mean we We went out last night We kind of went to this sort of like Vodka place By recommendation Of Sean Price Williams Russian vodka bar Is that what it's called? Yeah it was No because it wasn't that one Because we wanted to go to that one That was like called Something Whatever I don't know And Sean orders a carafe of Garlic vodka Disgusting Some people are really into it And horseradish and horseradish vodka tastes like a Sunday roast yeah and anyway I actually didn't I felt kind of great this morning well I drank a bottle of wine in the scene that we were filming yeah and we did offer you up just like normal fluid like water or coloured water yeah but what I like about you is obviously your method exactly and you went well I need to chug the wine or else how are you going to get the correct kind of yeah you know yeah I mean don't put that out there yeah what else is going on in your life Aidan?