Great American Dream Show with Josh Safdie & Sean Baker

0:29I'm Josh Safdie. you saw the movie in person so I got like the you know real live yeah I've seen it three times now actually and uh it keeps revealing new things each time well more than more than me my crazy respect for your taste in movies as a filmmaker you know what that means to me well yeah and I know that we love the same stuff we have the same sensibility and I think most of the time most of the time most of the time sometimes sometimes we disagree but yes it's true I do leave you very long and annoying audio texts. I love them. It's actually like a little savior. I'll say, oh, wow. And then I'll bring them back.

1:03You're the only person I do it with. You know that? Oh, that's hilarious. And I like giving you a little audio documentaries too. What I'm doing is I'm on the train. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear New York behind you. I know, you miss it. So I want to read a text that you actually texted me back in 2020. I think I was right off of, from what I can tell, This was October of 2020, so I was right off of Red Rocket. I think I was bemoaning something. I think I was talking about how hard it is to keep things small. And we were just talking about the size of it. You had just made Red Rocket? I think so, and I was a little frustrated with things, the way they went, even though I loved the final outcome.

1:47Oh, thank you. Simon Rex, unbelievable. Another antihero like your film. But they're not antiheroes to you? No, but I recognize that audiences see them as antiheroes. Do you see Marty as an antihero? I mean, I hear people say it. The concept of antihero is so negative. I know. That's very true. That's very true. I think they're human. Yes, exactly. They're human with flaws. Okay, so I'm going to read this to you. Okay. So I forgot I left you an audio text that vanished, but this is your response. Okay. I wish we had. And I think it had something to do with trying to keep under the radar, you know, because our previous films, definitely not Marty, but, you know, I think there's been, there was documentary techniques used.

2:39Contemporary movies, yeah. Yes, exactly. So anyway, you wrote this. I think it's fun to swim in bigger lakes. And I think if you see the resource, if you use the resources right, the product can be super interesting. I'm falling more and more into maximalist territory. And when you wrote that, I was like, what the hell is he talking about? But then five years later, I see Marty and I know exactly what you're talking about now. You really, this is an epic film. The scope and scale just seems really big and it's so impressive. But I think what I meant about, I definitely, what was the date on that?

3:1721? 20. 20. What? October 2020. Oh, so like pandemics still raging. I had already been working on Marty. I think what happened was, is like, as you, and it's kind of similar to what was happening, I think, with the direct cinema movement in a strange way. is I started to look at life as a construct and I started to realize, particularly with those movies leading up to that, heaven knows what being kind of the most because that was a documentary essentially. And knowing that life, if you look at life as something that's built, there's millions of decisions that go into it. The higher power, whatever it is, is creating all everything like this table this microphone the color of the thing the stand itself the decision someone's decision to light it this way it's all there and i started to kind of i think the only and i started to become obsessive about it in particular with with gems because it was this bigger movie and i was trying to still like steal life yes recreate life so then when you start to kind of break it down like well how can I create life and then access the way that I was making those movies so like how can I create life to have the feeling of going inside of it and stealing the movie because that is like the urgency of like getting something and getting out yeah and I think that that was where my head was at lakes I hate lakes I don't like swimming in lakes okay i like the ocean uh but uh but i i don't know when i talk to you uh and a few other people i can open up about that stuff i don't think i would like send that text to anybody else but you oh all right okay i i'm i'm honored yeah um so but that because because because you know like i texted you this uh when i was re-watching uh prince of broadway when you did the restoration when you put it on film, it looks so amazing.

5:23It looks so cool. Nothing looks like it. You know me, that's one of my favorites of yours. But it's the sneeze. Bless you, motherfucker. Because it's amazing. Because in that moment, you're watching two real people. A guy sneezes. That's the most real you can get. You know what I mean? And the decision for the guy to just remain hard a little bit. He doesn't want to say, God bless you. He wants to say, bless you, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah. And it's one of my favorite moments. But you can only capture, and I love the jump cutting in that movie, because normally I don't, but the jump cutting in that film is really awesome conceptually.

6:02It just works really well. And you don't do any jump cutting? Never done a jump cutting. Never? No, never. I always will cut to something, and then even though what an incredible concept that Godard invented. He's the first person to use it in narrative form, right? In fiction form. He's got to be with Breathless. I think so. I think he was like the, or maybe he popularized it. That's a good question. I don't know. That's a crazy concept. I want to do something that like implies that there's stuff to cut out. And like whatever. Anyway. And it is. And it's something that I, it's fallen a little out of fashion.

6:38A little bit. I used it in one moment in Enora when they're outside the strip club. because I just rolled literally 10 minutes on the two girls talking. Yes. I rolled 10 minutes for Mag on the two of them talking, and I was like, I don't have any other coverage, so I'm going to just jump cutting to the highlights. It's a great way to set up. When you do something like that at the beginning of a movie, you're establishing, you're getting a lot of info out there. Yeah, and goodwill, too. And that was also when I was thinking about that conceptually, is like getting that crazy dolly shot of Marty walking through the Lower East Side, the amount of like time and...

7:20The first one where he's coming, not when he's running later. No, no, when he's walking. When he's like bouncing, there's that kind of, I call it a slightly like Irish vibe of the score. And then he's walking through and walking by people, which is like not a worry in his mind five hours late, but all those people. Everything feels so alive. And I was like shooting it like I was stealing it. we had of course we had a crane and a dolly oh okay but the vibe of it the energy and pushing and directing all those extras and there's the the the woman in a white jacket i think i went up to her and i was like you're not cooking your husband dinner yeah out of protest that night so she's in her head my ad team they're all like going and we had this ken jacobs film uh orchard street that had just been restored.

8:08His son, Azad, did it. And that was like a Bible for us. So we had this real-life document of what that street was like. So that was like the standard. It was life. But when you do that in the beginning of a movie, you get this crazy production value and you set the stand like time travel. You're like, okay, I'm here in this world. The movie can go kind of anywhere because it feels that way. I said to Jack Fisk, who designed the movie, I said to him and Adam Willis, the set deck, I was like, I want a time travel because I want to tell the story presently as if I'm there. Because anyone who was around, my great uncle or some other people who were in that scene, they tell the stories.

8:49I'm relating to them in present tense. I'm not relating to them in a period. You know what I mean? Did you have to like, see, I haven't done a period piece. I mean, my period piece was five years ago. Oh, man. So, I... Same way over. Gems was 2012. Right, right. But it's like, every once in a while, you go in, it's like, oh, we got to paint out that city bike bank, you know? Yep. Did you paint a lot of stuff out? You know, that was crazy because I have no relationship with VFX going into the movie. Outside of the sequence through the colon. Right, right. Or the gem, excuse me. Yeah, yeah. which was incredible because I had to, you know, when you don't have something to base it on, you have to build it from scratch.

9:35So I worked with the same, this guy, Iran, Denier, who is incredible and he thinks, he wrote a book about, he actually, his experience more, like he did all the Wolf of Wall Street effects and things like that, but he's like, the way he thinks is, he's almost like a physicist and he plays table tennis. and he plays piano and he loves new age electronic music so he was perfect and I called him the evil scientist whenever he was around I was like oh no, what does he want to do this is going to be evil and the producer Katagas came to me and was like well I think we should paint that out over there, we can't afford to cover it so it was a little bit of like that and that's a thankless job for them because it's like hard work that no one, you hope no one ever notices No one notices.

10:24But the table tennis stuff had some visual effects in there as well. The ball, basically. But we didn't, on that shot, in the orchard shoot, there's no VFX there. No. We were covering those two buildings that were built in 2015, 2020, that Jack had to build an entire new facade for. Oh, okay. Like a complete, like, and you plug them in. And then when we did that crazy chase scene, he would reuse pieces and just paint them differently. I mean, he's amazing. You know, for Tree of Life, that tree, there's an oak tree. that is Malik was like, it was spiritual. Of course. And they saw it. And like, we have to bring that tree to location.

11:00And the root ball was like apparently like 25 feet in diameter. And there's a quote. They got the quote to move a tree like that. And for it to survive is even crazier. I was like insane. I think it was like half a million dollars to move the tree. That's incredible. So Jack was like, I'm going to find local people. And they like slowly dug up the root ball. dusted it out and then put it onto it. He found like a local guy to put it on flatbeds and they moved it. And his greatest, the thing is the best, like the great triumph of it is that it's still thriving and alive. But he's like that. There was like an interview with him where he was chopping down a tree that got some invasive on it.

11:42And he says to the interview, he goes, I remember planting this tree 50 years ago. And like the time and stuff like that. Wow. Did you, I mean, there's so much texture. There seems to be, you can almost smell everything. And then also just all the little details, especially in the shoe shop, in the shop. You know when they were excavating that? That was a real, that was like, it was on Orchard Tree. We wanted to shoot in New York, which everyone's like, it's too expensive. I was trying to tap into the soul of the city. Yeah, thank you. I mean, I agree. I don't like cheating. You know what I mean?

12:16I think it's on some level you're cheating. and I had said to production and Jack well we can get more days if we do this here and do that there we can cheat this and I really wanted to shoot where these characters were from I wanted to shoot it where they lived and there was one shop on Orchard Street that you get lucky with some poorly managed buildings where they never took a deal and they never did this and there's probably family disputes inside of it and you can feel that dispute in this building. And it was just like, you walk in, it's like, I don't even know where half of the clothing, where it came from.

12:56It's like these, you know, when you see like proper, like the garment district, like there are a lot of garmentos who make clothing. Never heard of them. They make them for bigger brands. So you go in there and there's just this like slop kind of like, garmento slop, but it's beautiful because it's kind of outsider. So you go in there and it's just, you can't even believe what you saw it's just like underneath it all was the bones of this original kind of you know this clothing company and when we excavated we had to we had to completely clear it out and we have the scene in the basement where him and uh i don't even know if it plays like a basement when when him and odessa uh where the child with his child is conceived oh okay uh that's in the basement because the in the script it actually is like a pretty long tracking shot that brings him from switching the boxes out all the way up.

13:48And I just condensed to cut out a piece of, cut out the travel. But when we had to, because we had to shoot down there. And then we ended up having to recreate the whole basement on a stage because we ran out of time. We had to do that twice. Oh, you did some stage stuff. Yeah, the whole tenement. The whole tenement was on a stage. I wanted to shoot that on location because Jack is amazing. I was like, we have to shoot that on location. I don't want to cheat it. And then we went and they were like, Josh, we'd have to rent out every apartment because it's a tenement. There's one way up and down.

14:19And so we had to build that. And Jack's like, trust me, you will not know when we're there. Incredible. But when we were excavating the basement, he sent a picture of just a decomposed rat carcass. Well, it was just the bones. And it was like this big. And it was like something you'd see in the Natural History Museum. And I tried to preserve it. And we threw that away. and then they found a bone that was too big looked like a collar and I was like guys they didn't send me a picture of that I was like I've got to report that they're like no no we think it was like a dog bone or something I was like I don't know man Lower East Side yeah right when you as a director when you're shooting these scenes that have to time travel the audience I'm assuming Do you do playback?

15:10Do you watch? I have. I say no playback because it's another job on set. Right. And I think it's a crutch that people like to sit at. I hate the concept of Video Village. Right. It's just kind of a cancer on set and everyone. So I never. But there had to be one on this. Yeah. Particularly for the table tennis thing. Okay. So we were carrying them. And they were great. You know. And I never do playback. I never say let me see that thing. But you are watching a monitor. I'm watching a monitor. And I'm like, but I'm like, if the scene is here, I'm like right there. I blew my knees out doing the movie because I would constantly throw myself into these little corners.

15:44And Ian Kincaid, my gaffer, was like, and Darius too, was like, sit next to me on this Apple box. I was like, no, no, no, I need to be right there. Get knee pads. Yeah, I'm going to do that. I did for Nora, actually. I was like, I'm going to look into getting knee pads. Yeah. Because in that mansion, all the floors were like marble, hard, hard floors. And I was constantly going down and being like, ah, knee pads, knee pads. Did you have an iPad? I did, yeah. I should have done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should have done that. So when you're looking at the monitor, is there like a suspension of disbelief has to kick in for you as the director, right?

16:19Do you feel that happening in the moment? Do you lose yourself and like, oh, I'm back and seeing Marty in the 50s right now? Well, what's funny is I took it for granted. Oh, okay. Because I was just there treating it as if it was real. every once in a while I would say something like Adam and Jack the way they talk about real life, they won't say that's so 52, they would say that's so period they would be like oh that's so period, they would show me something, look how period this is and I don't know if that's like lingo for people who do period pieces, but to me it meant, it took on a different meaning it was like this timeless thing in front of us It has a timeless quality.

17:01It has an aura. Like, look at that. Look, that's so period. And the way they said that, I don't know. I always really, it was very spiritual to me. The art department is, especially on a film where you're going back in time and with Miyako, her costuming, it is, I mean, she would go and do crazy thrifting and pulling. And then so her costume department actually had thousands of pieces. and she didn't use any of them but it was more for me and her to go and look and characters in the movie Tyler to just go and look and then you build so it's like oh this piece looks really nice so let's build a piece like this and so all of it is kind of like we're all obviously everyone's inspiring each other but I think Erickson is the production designer on McCabe and Mrs.

17:47Miller I know he's Jack's like hero and he I'm okay, Mrs. Miller's movie that I know you hate the fake snow in. It was probably the first time anyone was doing optical snow. And it doesn't exactly hold up. In the beginning, when you see these restorations, maybe. When you see an old print. Maybe I wish I'd just sold. I've never seen the restoration. I've only seen the old DVD. Well, it's a wonderful restoration. I'm sure. I remember reading a story that Warren Beatty, when he saw that movie, like oh man I was so psyched to show it to him and he was like um he's like what'd you think he goes I couldn't fucking hear one word that I said what did you do to the movie yeah and he's like isn't that amazing yeah and uh Warren Beatty's like no it's not amazing at all yeah but it because it was conceptual uh but but the production designer would go into town and go to the bars and get the drunks who were there and bring them to the set or the people who built the sets he'd put them in the scenes so those that's why they feel so alive and i would start to i went nuts casting a lot of these extras yeah um and faces so i would populate and jack felt like i built these sets but they're not alive until josh you put these people in them yeah and that was when i would start to that's when i this suspension disbelief really comes alive to me is when i'm like the bowling alley when you just have all these people that you that have these anachronistic to, not in timeless faces, not anachronistic.

19:20And they're just in perfect costume with perfect hair. Kay George, my hair person. I gave her carte blanche. I was like, if the hair isn't perfect or right, get rid of them. So then the extras people were like, hey, Kay is releasing these three extras. They're like, good. And I was like, send me a picture. She was like, she was right. Because she was looking at the faces only. My God, what you and Jennifer found with me. I mean, every scene is just populated with just incredibly unique looking, beautiful people. Yeah, beautiful people. Yeah, because Jen's like a humanist. And I'm lucky. She's like, she's a documentarian.

19:53Her movie Billy the Kid is a testament to her. Amazing movie. That was how I met her. I was playing pool. And I was on a roll. I was feeling sharkish. You know, I was, if I can lock in and focus, my problem is focus sometimes. I can I believe when I was a kid I was like if I focus on something I can do anything that was in my mind my dad instilled that into me but um so I was playing pool and she came up to me she tried to like cast me she was doing a lot of oh is that unusual casting yeah unusual casting for fashion spreads oh okay uh and then she I think the first like time she was and then like I think maybe Spike Jones reached out to her to find the kid and where the wild things are she came up to me to be like hey you know good pays really good money you know you should and i was like i don't know i'm not i don't want to do that even though i was acting in my early stuff yeah it's like i don't want to do it just for me i'm trying to learn for myself i don't want to do it for someone else yeah and uh so i met her that way and then i went to see billy the kid and i cried watching that film and i went up to her and i was like what a beautiful movie so what you're seeing in the film is like i'm meeting people on the street i'm sending them to jen she's finding people on the street herself she has a team of people who go into the real world she's looking at real you know the fabric of sag and real people and she looks at actors as real people and as you should and sometimes they're famous and they you know they make a studio happy and sometimes they're someone who's just been working for a long time and no one's giving them kind of their due yeah and so she's looking at everyone the same way but what's happening with these some of these first timers and you can feel it in your movies is that they, and it's part of the job as a director is instilling a certain sort of confidence and ease.

21:41Like you have the agency to do whatever you want because whatever you decide to do is great because you're deciding to do it on some level and then you steer them. I don't like the word manipulate but you push them into areas so that they can do their thing. in them. So Jen's style is she'll do an interview with these people. Again, it doesn't matter if they're a known person or an unknown person. She'll send a 20-minute interview and her interviews are amazing. They're deep dives, spiritual. That's so cool. Then you learn something from them and then you go back. I want to put this piece into the character so you're rewriting.

22:19Sometimes you use a piece of their experience. Then they see that and they're like, wow, you saw something in me. Then she does, I consider it like acting school. so then in her little windowless room I'll give a character description and a scenario and I'll say I want to see how these people improvise and then she'll work with them and then we'll do it again and then you introduce dialogue and see how they can do it with structured scenes because you don't have much improv in this film in this one no I mean I would go I was so afraid of the script even though we spent six years on it I was so afraid of it this thing you know what I mean and um i don't know do you feel that way i i i do i i uh sometimes it just feels like it's it might be too structured it might be too or i've been living with it too long and it no longer feels fresh and i want to mix it up on set and so therefore i just say like we'll do a couple takes with what i've written and then if we feel so inspired to take it in another place using this This is a launching pad.

23:23Yeah. And that's what I've been doing for the last few films because I've had to flesh out my screenplays, the full-length screenplays, whereas the film you mentioned earlier, Prince of Broadway, oh, my God, that was like a treatment in us showing up every day and just being like, let's see what happens. It's hard to do it on bigger budgets. It's impossible. It's impossible to do what you did, which is a period piece and obviously very structured. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I can totally, for a long time, I remember I wrote a screenplay, and I remember like this one group of people who I met through this strange woman.

24:08And she was like, it was this movie that ended up turning into Daddy Longlegs, but it was a structured script. It was like about, it's kind of the same, and that morphed into Daddy Longlegs in some way. It was about the same family going to a beach and the kid gets lost on the beach. It's a crazy movie. But because I couldn't get that made, I remember I was sitting there in this. They were lawyers, the people who were going to give us the money. We were asking for like$100 ,000. And we read they were like, we're going to bring in someone who knows the industry. So they brought in, I don't remember, an actress that I didn't recognize from Footloose.

24:47I think I had a small part in Footloose. Yeah, yeah. She wanted to defeat the opening credits. Yeah, so I was like, they were like, this is, she was like, oh, pleasure to meet you. And then we read the whole script in this conference room. And I remember they said, well, can you include 9-11 in it somehow? I was like, this movie takes place on a beach, what are you talking about? I was like, well, this movie feels very nostalgic, and it would be interesting to kind of at least evoke the Twin Towers. and I was like but it doesn't take place in 2000 and whatever 1990s or 2000 but it would be good for us and we jokingly like pitched the most ridiculous thing and they were like that's a great idea I didn't want to say what it was but sometimes you have to appease but my point is like I never wanted to I got afraid of the script and then I just wrote treatments and Daddy Longlegs was just 40 pages of just prose and I was like I'll get these kids to Ronnie to say the words as he wants to say them.

25:47It was some dialogue but it was all ideas. And on this, and I'm sure you, I mean look, Nora is very structured and I think that you, I think we've discussed about other films and other filmmakers this feeling of maybe it's, I don't know where, maybe you get really into, I don't know, these realist films that you start to have this kind of thirst for story. That's very true. And, you know, the story becomes, I don't know, paramount. So you mean like starting off early in your career? Yeah. Where you're just like, I just want to capture. You have an idea of a movie. Right. And you have a very general structure.

26:36And the goal is more about maybe craft and trying to like recreate reality. Yeah. And then as we've moved on, we actually have been, our stories have been more complicated, a little more traditional in a way. Maybe people hate that. With the beginning, middle, and end. Maybe people hate that, but I think they're, I like to see ideas. Yeah, we like stories. Yes, we like stories. Yeah. Yes, 100%. Around the cavemen, around the fire. Completely. And hearing a beginning, middle, and end. Do you talk, do you tell or do you orate the story to somebody before you? oh yeah it's helpful because you know immediately when someone's like yeah where's this going i'm just about i mean i'm i'm about to get into that right now because i'm i have it all here and it's about to be vomited out on onto who do you do that with uh samantha and alex coco amazing uh my two fellow producers and it's it's about me going guys come over sit down i'm about i'm gonna take two edibles and i'm gonna just amazing i'm gonna fit i know that about you i don't know how many people We'll know about you.

27:42Were you on edibles at the Oscars? I time it so that. So that you're coming down? So that I'm not too high up on stage. It's unbelievable. I can't. Yeah, yeah. It's always timed perfectly so that it's really hitting just as I'm exiting. I love that. You know, that sounds like such a nightmare for me. I am. When I can't do it anymore. When I used to smoke weed, it was a punishment. Oh, wow. I would sit. I would do it. I'd be alone. If I have an interaction with someone, oh my God, that's bad news. And I would criticize myself. And I'd write them down. And I have these nasty things about myself.

28:20And then I would, it was horrible. It's a horrible experience. But I thought that I needed it to understand, you know, ideas and myself. And then I'd be sober. And I'd come to and I'd read these things. I'm like, okay, that's through the lens of this. So I admire that you could, because these things are, I mean, it's amazing that you're able to, you were able to well i think i've become it was actually something i i avoided because i had a bad experience making a student film once oh really i was too high and like i'm never doing that again and to tell you the truth i don't when i'm directing yeah no way it'd be lucid no no no but i do use it in writing and in post and and i edit high wow and uh maybe i shouldn't be in we can delete that 100 percent and nora i even give in it was both red rocket and in nora that I edited literally 100%.

29:10I don't think I edit a scene that's not high. And in the end credits, I thank my dispensary. But anyway. I love that. But actually, that brings us to editing. You co-edit with Ronnie. That's right. It's the first time I've edited since my early films. Oh. Yeah. Because I'm so involved in the edit. Yeah. and um what i was is for a long time i would get i have anxiety like bad anxiety and the the process of editing uh is anxiety inducing in the sense that like okay i know this i want to do this i know these pieces but it's the it's it's and every time i'm in the micro of making the specific cut yeah i'm fine it's then when i have them all and i have to just having a timeline where you have to move make a cut and you have to like make sure you get all that i know it's such a simple thing that just feeling of moving a timeline it could be just a four minute scene yeah gives me so much anxiety oh yeah that i can't of course i couldn't do it so i had to get over that and imagine doing that on a steam back yeah oh my god i cut you cut probably on that when you lose one frame and you're in the bin and you're like where's that one frame i made the wrong cut so that kind of trains you to be a little more orthodox and strict with the cutting uh so i have that background a little bit yeah that's the greatest thing about the digital revolution, by the way, is what it did for post.

30:36That's, in my opinion, the greatest thing about digital. So do you and Ronnie, how do you split it up and are either one of you editing during production? No, no, no, no. During? No, not even a little bit. So writing is the scariest part because it could go on forever. It could go on forever and the ideas. It's the hardest part, 100%. People don't like to really say that, which is not fair to the writers. It's the hardest part. It's the ideas. It's the bedrock. It's the foundation uh the actual hardest part is direction but because it's just war and the world doesn't want your movie to exist and there's a million problems there's time management it's performances so you have to like constantly be blind to different parts of yourself yes so that this stress doesn't exist for this person and then you're in this space and you're with life all of a sudden you're doing their takes but it's finite it's over in 46 days it's over you know with writing it could go on forever who knows when an idea will come and in the edit you have this it's done so and when we're shooting I don't have time to watch dailies I don't have time to watch dailies let alone edit I know I had a great editing team like who were looking at stuff just to make sure everything's in focus yeah exactly which there was a lot of focus problems on this well we're shooting film shooting film with these old lenses low light scenarios Darius Prince of Darkness he's shooting things and I'm no marks, you know what I mean?

31:58So I'm letting people, and sometimes he'll be like, Josh, the actor has to go right here. I've lit for this area. I was like, we'll see what they do. And he's like, no, just tell them to go here. I was like, can't do that, Darius. Timmy, with some of the more veteran actors, they can do it, but even the veteran actors, you don't put marks down. You're encouraging this freedom. Like you were saying earlier, you have these takes. You do them that are kind of tied to the script. Then you go into these unknown territories, these uncharted territories, And you kind of find your way back to the script a little bit, looking for this feeling, and you end up using pieces of just improvisation in some way or improvisation emotionally.

32:36You know what I mean? Doing little things, moving different places. But I would say to Darius, if they don't hit that light pool, and then maybe over here, it's almost more interesting because there's an imperfection there. And someone might not land in a pool of light. They might be slightly underlit and drive Darius crazy. but he started to understand people became not just things you can push around they became these real life things which is like a documentary in some way but that's why even I remember on Heaven Knows What I stretched out the credits because I wanted it to look like it was a real production but in the end of the day it was like five people making a documentary so I try to bring that feeling a little bit to this but it's going back to the editing the daily is like I remember reading these stories about Altman He would take these daily watching parties.

33:22I was like, wow, how does he have the time to do that? But it was beautiful because I imagine it would be, I do that in prep. You get all the crew members, all the department heads together, and you watch all the camera tests and things like that. And I'm playing music. And I'm creating the vibe. And also the 80s music was part of that from the very beginning. Really, all of those tracks. It was written into the script, yeah, the needle drops. You can tell. You can tell because it feels so deliberately cut to the music as well. It seems like you've even storyboarded. I don't know if you've storyboarded.