2026 NFC West preview

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2:26Robert Mays: Upwork dot com. Welcome to The Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays, and we did it. Eight division previews in the books. The NFC West, our eighth and final show. Really enjoy doing these every single year. Sincerely appreciate everyone who checked out all of these. A fascinating division to end things with. two Super Bowl favorites, including the defending Super Bowl champion Seahawks. Really enjoyed digging into the Cardinals and Niners as well. Let's get to it with me, Dave, and Derek right now.

3:11We made it.

3:13Robert Mays: Eight divisions in. Eighth and final division preview today, breaking down the NFC West. just the Super Bowl champion from last year, the Super Bowl favorite from this year, the Niners that are in the playoffs every year. Just a casual way to wrap things up. Save the best for last. It's a lot.

3:30Dave Helman: And honestly, I think the fact, too, that we do this in Super Bowl odds order, the fact that we're going to end this, not even just like with a, obviously a team in a tough division, but with the team that might have the first overall pick is at least actually an intriguing way to end this for a division. Do you want to flip this one?

3:45Robert Mays: We'll do the Cardinals first so we can end with the Rams or not? It would make the most sense,

3:47Dave Helman: but I think it's kind of funny to end it with maybe the worst team in the league.

3:51Derrik Klassen: No, we can't save the two best teams in the league.

3:56Robert Mays: Consistency is important to me. Consistency is important. These are one of my favorite things we do all year. Sincerely appreciate everyone who tuned in to all of these. Sincerely appreciate the work everyone did behind the scenes on this stuff, especially Katie Duffy, our producer, who put in an just unfathomable amount of work to get all those YouTube videos turned around in a single day. The fact that we had 32 of those with the production value that we do. She deserves an unbelievable amount of credit for that. So produce a live show in the

4:22Derrik Klassen: middle of all of that as well.

4:24Robert Mays: So you're the goat, Katie, everyone behind the scenes, it was a lot of work and I'm really proud of them when they're done. And so I hope you guys are enjoying them. I think they're really a great way to end the off season, just something to really sink your teeth into about every single team in the league. And we're going to wrap it up with four teams that I'm very excited to talk about. Let's kick things off with the Los Angeles Rams. Again, we're doing this in order of divisional odds the same way we've done all of the divisions just want to make that extremely clear as we kick this thing off mostly for the audio audience the rams offseason in 60 seconds hired nathan promoted nathan shieldhouse the offensive coordinator brought in miles garrett aaron donald trent mcduffie and jalen watson when i do these i do them just very quickly and do them it's kind of the same process for every team just casually typing in miles garrett and Aaron Donald in the same space that I later typed in Kendrick Bourne and Elijah Wilkinson

5:19Derrik Klassen: in the exact same way was very funny. Please don't leave off trading for Tutu Atwell back either, by the way.

5:25Dave Helman: That is a funny, like, a McVay, like, I need one of my guys back.

5:28Derrik Klassen: Let's throw Tutu Atwell in there. Three all pros and that guy that caught, like, two passes for us last year. But God, we love him.

5:35Robert Mays: Lost Kobe Duran, Nakella Weatherspoon in the draft. Ty Simpson in the first round. Max Clare in the second round. Keegan Trost in the third round. for all these teams were kicking things off with what you were most excited about as it relates to this team in 2026. Derek, why don't you kick us off? What are you most excited about with the 2026 Los Angeles Rams? Pick literally anything.

5:55Dave Helman: I mean, they have the MVP quarterback. They have maybe the best play caller in the NFL. Apukanukua and Devontae Adams, especially if he is a little bit healthier at the start of this year, is as good as it gets. The defense was already one of the best in the NFL. And then it signed an all pro corner, the best pass rusher in the NFL and brought back Aaron Donald, who knows exactly what he's going to be. But just the fact that he's back is an unbelievable addition to this team. So like it's it's very rare that going into a season you can make a case that does not at all feel like a stretch that they could be the best offense and the best defense.

6:28Dave Helman: Usually you get like the best offense and they can be a good defense, but it'll be like seventh or eighth. The fact that they have pretty strong cases to be number one at both. It's a pretty rare place for a team to be.

6:38Derrik Klassen: You might have a better handle on this than I do. I was trying to think of the last time that a team came into a season with expectations quite this high. Like, I'm sure the Patriots had expectations like this on them a few times. But this is not a common occurrence at all. And, like, I mean, another one that comes to mind is, I know how it turned out, which makes it funny, is the 2011 Eagles, or was it 2010, the Dream Team Eagles? It was 2010, I would say, yeah. And that was, but even that, and I know it didn't live up to the expectations, but that was like an amalgamation of things joining a new team.

7:15Derrik Klassen: This is just adding things to a team that was already on the cusp of playing in a Super Bowl. Like you very much had the evidence that this was a great team before you added the best defender in football and an all pro corner and Aaron Donald, whatever he is at this point in time. I mean, there, I'm sure there's precedent for it if you're willing to look hard enough, but it's been a minute.

7:37Robert Mays: I mean, I think there's just not precedent for it because the Aaron Donald part of it is really what takes it all over the top. But the Miles Garrett thing, and who knows what Aaron Donald will be, but the prospect of one of the best football players we have ever seen, right? The defining defensive player of his generation joining forces with the current best defense player in the NFL and the best player of the next generation is insane. I mean, again, I don't know what exactly to expect from Aaron Donald, but the idea that these two guys are going to be playing together on the same defense next to each other on third and eight in the divisional round with potentially the season on the line and we get to watch this.

8:16Robert Mays: It's amazing. It's a real gift for football fans. And I've been on record saying that there's part of me that wishes we could have just let the Aaron Donald experience be crystallized because the idea of this man saying to Sean McVay, I'm full, I don't need more of this and walking away at the top of the sport is a rare opportunity that we don't often get. But now that that is gone and we're just sitting in this reality, I'm very excited to experience it.

8:40Derrik Klassen: When Aaron Donald said that, the Rams had bounced back from a dismal Super Bowl hangover to be solid. And I think that 2023 season was really special to those guys. I bet that I absolutely bet that it was. But I also bet Aaron Donald didn't ever think the Rams would be in position to add somebody like Miles Garrett to their defensive front.

8:59Robert Mays: I think there's a lot of things. His kids didn't see him play. They're older now. Now, I just think there are a lot of elements as to why he wanted to come back. And I'm very excited to watch it. But the other, I mean, everything else about the defense, you talk about them having the chance to be the best defense in the league. You go back and you look at, I was rewatching the NFC championship game last night and the ways that then Seahawks were able to attack them over the course of that game, which by the way, we'll get to the Seahawks part of it. The performance from Sam Darnold and Clint Kubiak in that NFC championship game.

9:30Robert Mays: Holy shit. Blacked out. They were both incredible in how they attacked them in that game. But the first big play of the game, Rashid Shahid one-on-one against Darius Williams down the right sideline on a goalball. And that is one of the reasons that you go out and trade for Trent McDuffie, that you go sign Jalen Watson. And the other part of it, and this came up when I was there, them just talking about watching a team like Seattle and seeing the physicality that they had throughout their entire secondary. I think when you look at the moves for McDuffie, for Watson, the first place your mind goes is coverage quality compared to what we had last year.

10:03Robert Mays: That's part of it. But I think it's about an increase in size and just overall physicality, including against the run. Because against this team now, even before Aaron Donald got there, the ball's coming out fast. You're adding Miles Garrett to a team that already has Byron Young, Kobe Turner, Braden Fisk, Puna Ford. And now Aaron Donald is involved in this thing. And so the ability of the corners to tackle, I think, was at front of mind and how they ended up building that room. And so having that sort of cornerback group now compared to what you had a year ago, plus Miles Garrett and Aaron Donald, it's just a ridiculous situation.

10:36Dave Helman: I'm incredibly excited to see it because, yeah, Jalen Watson, 6 '1 and a half, 200 pounds.

10:40Robert Mays: He's a big boy. And that's the exact opposite from what they had with their outside cornerback spots last year, except for Akella Weatherspoon. But Akella Weatherspoon can't move the way that he used to. Yes, exactly. Like Darius Williams and Kobe Durant are both small men and Emmanuel Forbes. They were small in the corner last year.

10:57Dave Helman: Emmanuel Forbes gets top billing there. I think the most film prep I did for this was going back and watching the Rams defense. Some of the tackle attempts from Emmanuel Forbes. It's tough. And I know Trent McDuffie is not big, but he gets after it. Yes, he is a physical. It's why he was so good in the nickel when he played there for the Kansas City Chiefs. His lower half.

11:16Robert Mays: He's just so put together for a shorter player. And I think that was one of the reasons that they wanted to seek him out because they thought he could hold up in all the ways they wanted him to.

11:24Derrik Klassen: I mean, he's all he's Kobe Durant's giving up like 15 or so pounds on Trent McDuffie. Like he's a he's a even for a DB.

11:33Robert Mays: He's like a bigger, more physical body type. Totally. And the other part of the defense that just my last thing that I'm excited about, because I was going to go with the whole defense as to what I was excited to watch, because I think the front obviously changes everything. and one of the reasons that they wanted to go get Miles Garrett is that beyond the overall impact of a player like Miles Garrett, they missed the world where defense offenses could only do so much to them. When Aaron Donald was on the field, the playbook was limited. There were certain things you just couldn't do when he was on the field.

12:01Robert Mays: By getting Miles Garrett, they stepped back into a world they were already very familiar with because of the way that Aaron Donald shaped the complexion of games. But the other part was just the defensive, the secondary, not only the quality added, the flexibility they now have on the back end is wild because you have how many guys you could theoretically step down and have them play in the nickel you could play as much dime as you want with this group you have quentin lake can play there tron mcduffie can play there based on situation you can just have so many different permutations of what that secondary is going to look like behind that defensive line it's a compelling group of defensive players we can

12:38Derrik Klassen: just leave it at that chris shula already led the league in dime and that was before they did this side what the splits are going to look like is going to be fun.

12:45Robert Mays: Let's get to what we're watching over the first month of the season with the Los Angeles Rams. For each of these teams, we're going to pick something that is a question of curiosity, something that you want an answer on early in the year. Dave, why don't you start us off? What are you watching the first month of the season with the Los Angeles Rams?

13:02Derrik Klassen: The personnel ads distract from all of the fun little ways that this team is exciting. Like to take it back to defense for one minute. it's funny to think what we might be saying about a guy like Josiah Stewart if Aaron Donald and Miles Garrett were here right and in the same way like when the offense has the reigning MVP an offensive player of the year caliber receiver in Puka Devante Kyron Williams has been what he's been it's still easy to forget that there's 40 percent of the offense that you've got to figure out here and we're very intrigued to see how it goes because that's that's how they split it up Puka, Devante, and Kyron accounted for 57 % of the targets in this offense last year.

13:44Derrik Klassen: And even with Blake Corum having an emergent year, Kyron still did 60%, 65 % of the work in the backfield. So what does that look like for the other 40 %? We've talked a lot about Terrence Ferguson this summer. What does that actually look like? They have an absolutely loaded tight end room. Like all the other guys out snapped Terrence Ferguson as a rookie anyway, whether it's Higby, whether it's Parkinson, whether it's Davis Allen. And by the way, I had another like surreal moment last night where I was looking through it and I was like, I can't believe the Rams drafted Max Clare 61st overall.

14:21Derrik Klassen: And he's like fourth on the depth chart. He's very best. Redshirt. He's an apathom. It's absolutely crazy how deep they go. You have Corum there. They brought Tutu Atwell back. And so let's not overthink it. this offense is going to funnel through Puka Devante and Kyron Williams, but there are some fun players that they can work with, with the, with the other parts of how this offense is going to look. Terrence Ferguson, for me being really the most exciting, I don't want to get my expectations too high. That's how you wind up being disappointed when it doesn't quite look as good as you wanted it to.

14:54Derrik Klassen: But in the opportunities he got, which is small because he caught 11 passes, but he led all tight ends and yards per catch and air yards per target. and like by significant margins. Like he gives them something that nobody else does if they're going to see this through.

15:10Robert Mays: And I trust that they are. To me, what's most intriguing about this, and mine was just the new wrinkles that are coming on offense. And I think he's a very good expression of that. How does his role diversify and expand beyond the things that you're talking about? Because I think that is the most important question. Last year, we've talked about this. He was the vertical presence in the 13 personnel stuff that kind of helped it come alive. But if he truly is going to be the third most important receiver on this team, it has to be more nuanced and diverse than that. The breadth of what you're asking him to do.

15:41Robert Mays: And I think there are two things that come to mind as to how that can expand. One, it's actually the blocking because that allows him to be on the field in more situations. So this was a team last year that the reason you skip over 12 personnel is that there's no benefit to it. Right. By going to 13, you get base defense. by being in 12 when it's 50-50 base nickel, you don't know what you're getting and it's hard to figure out where exactly your advantages are. But if Ferguson becomes a guy that's a capable enough blocker, where if they're going to play nickel to your 12, you can start running the ball the way that you want to, that unlocks something they weren't able to do before.

16:16Robert Mays: And I think that's something they'll probably at least think about exploring. The thought about exploring over camp, we'll see if it was good enough to actually put into practice. But the other part is, underneath change of direction sort of route options and whether he can do a little bit more of that, because then, even if they're in nickel, is that your best pass catching group with him as the third receiver? So that stuff is all theoretical. We haven't seen any of it, but those are the ways that you can kind of add a couple new wrinkles to this thing if he can do some more of that stuff.

16:45Derrik Klassen: He was in line half the time last year, but he was in the slot 30 % of the time. They even motioned him out wide. And again, this is a small snap count, so it's an unreliable sample size, but like they moved him out wide as well. Like, so I'm really hopeful that we're going to see that. And this is going to be a pretty diverse usage for Terrence Ferguson.

17:05Dave Helman: And I kind of think that we can get there. Like, I really liked him coming out of the draft. I think, too, they really like him because they were a team that really wanted Brock Bowers and they could not get Brock Bowers. And he does a little he's not as good, you know, Bowers in terms of movement is just a special, special player. But I think there is some of that dynamic ability with a guy like Terrence Ferguson to be able to split him out a little bit more. And I think why I'm pretty bullish on them using him a lot more, at least in terms of like target share. There is no clear wide receiver three on that.

17:32Dave Helman: It would be like Jordan Whittington, who is like a good Puka Nakua fill in. But it's not he's not complimentary to what Puka is already giving you. Exactly.

17:41Robert Mays: Ferguson. I think you could make an argument that if he based on what the conversations I was having when I was there. Again, if you're trying to use a guy like on like option routes or like on third down, he might be your best guy right now for some of that stuff and so i think that's the argument as to why we could see more of him because that skill set just doesn't really exist within the offense

18:00Dave Helman: exactly it does not exist at wide receiver or again tight end for them like none of the other tight ends really offer you that so it's it's just kind of easy to see assuming he takes some sort of leap how they can piece him into the offense pretty seamlessly canada mumfield got a surprisingly high

18:14Derrik Klassen: snap count for a day three pick on one of the best teams in football maybe he's okay though no he's I don't have to talk shit about Kanata Mumfield, but if you could replace that with somebody that gives you more diversity and mismatchability like a Terrence Ferguson could, I could see the appeal of that. I also, again, I wouldn't say this for a lot of teams, but just last year, Kanata Mumfield had this role for the Rams. I hear all this great stuff about C.J. Daniels, their sixth-round pick out of Miami. Normally, I'd roll my eyes at that, but the Rams are not afraid to try shit. Like that shouldn't surprise you if they think that highly of him.

18:51Robert Mays: The other guy I would throw in that where the wrinkles coming from. I think we'll see more Blake Corum this year. I don't think there will be a hundred and fourteen carry split between Kyron Williams and Blake Corum this year. You look at the numbers from last year. It's very easy to see why that might get a little bit closer because Blake Corum is just giving you something that's a little bit different. Explosive run rate per next gen last year. Kyron Williams at 10 percent. Blake Corum at about 16 percent. Kyron had 23 or 26 runs of 10 plus yards. Blake Corum had 23 on 114 fewer carries. And it's also some of the things I feel like we're seeing them do more of schematically in the run game.

19:29Robert Mays: This was a duo, duo, duo team over the last couple of years, duo mid zone. It was very, you know, downhill. And I feel like with Corum, you started to see them add a little bit more counter. And I think this year, a little bit more outside zone to be explosive because he, it gives you an explosive element in the run game that Kyron for all of his benefits just doesn't really give you and so I think those are the two areas both with Ferguson and Coram and the ways that I could see this team kind of ideating and evolving from last year to this year yeah Kyron

19:59Dave Helman: is like the most reliable singles and doubles hitter maybe at the position like he is phenomenal with that especially within the way that the offense functions if they want to get this ball out of the park a little bit more Blake Coram does give them that what was yours Derek what are you

20:13Robert Mays: watching the first month of the season?

20:14Dave Helman: Yeah, mine was the DBs that we talked about a little bit. You talked about the flexibility that you talked about, I think, is the big thing. The fact that it's not even... So I think one of it is the body types. If you want to play different kinds of dime, you can put Jalen McCullough on the field, and he can do that. He can be your dime backer. He's a good blitzer.

20:31Robert Mays: He's a good blitzer, yes. Him and Quentin Lake are not that different.

20:35Dave Helman: That's why when Lake was hurt, and he kind of filled into that, I thought pretty well. If you want to move McDuffie inside and have Forbes play on the outside, Like it's not ideal, but if you know you're getting passed, like Forbes can cover is just amount of how much is he going to be able to tackle for you in the run game and stuff like that.

20:50Robert Mays: And so, you know, if he's only out there on third and nine,

20:52Dave Helman: and this thing's a little bit easier on you. Yeah, if it's third and nine, I feel okay about that. And so I just think the fact that they have so much flexibility on the back end, I just want to see how quickly it gives them a little bit of juice. And then you talked about it too. This was a team that they just got bullied in so many ways. Like whether it was like, because when we did the Packers preview, you i talked about it was like targets of six plus air yards outside the numbers against wide receivers the packers were one of the worst in the league if you look at all those stats the rams are only like a couple of spots around that it was that eagles game yes think about what age the panthers game sticks out to me the lions were able to do this like yeah the teams that were willing to be like we will challenge your shorter lesser corners beat the shit out of them and i just i think that that's going to be a lot tougher with the talent that they have out there now

21:38Robert Mays: David, there was one more thing you wanted to talk about and what you're watching over the first month of the season. I'm giving you the floor. You can roll your eyes if you want to.

21:44Derrik Klassen: I'm not. This is very important. For a team of this caliber, I think we need to talk about the special teams. And if you disagree or if you're snickering like Robert is. I'm not at all. This is very important. Ask Rashid Shahid. I'm not kidding. Ask Rashid Shahid about the Rams special teams or Jalen Carter. Or Sean McVay.

22:01Dave Helman: Didn't the team change their kicker like midway through last season? They sure did. Yes.

22:06Derrik Klassen: Well, they are the special teams coordinator. They changed their coordinator. So let's talk about this because it's January, February. We're prepping for the Super Bowl. We're doing all this stuff. The Rams change out their special teams coordinator. And I'm like, well, that makes sense. And they should and good for them. And then the Rams do the McDuffie trade. They do the carrot trade. Everything about the Rams this year is like the town. Like we're getting the not around crew. So I just kind of assumed that Sean McVay went out and got somebody who was like the shit, like the best special teams coordinator in the league.

22:39Derrik Klassen: Bubba Ventron is the guy they hired. They brought him over from Cleveland. I don't know him. I'm sure he's a great guy. The Browns were dead last in special teams DVO last year. And over the course of his time in Cleveland, they have not been overly good. So I think there's context that's worth bringing up with that.

22:55Robert Mays: Let's do it then, because it surprised me when I looked into it. I think the Browns organizationally do not value special teams and how they build the roster in the same way that other teams do. That's an interesting note. Like in terms of who the back end guys are.

23:11Derrik Klassen: In terms of who's doing the special teams. Correct. Sure. That's an interesting note. And I did have in my notes here, because, I mean, the Browns were, they were horrendous in all of the special teams categories. And like I said, not just last year, but going back over the last few years, it's 32, it's 30. but that's an interesting point because another thing the rams did besides just hire bubba ventrone is they brought in grant stewart who was fantastic for detroit as a key special he's been a pro bowler yeah he's been a phenomenal special teamer and these are some of the most unheralded but useful players in the nfl where i think he played 13 snaps of defense for detroit last year but he was on every team he was on all eight special teams kick kick return punt punt return field goal field goal block.

23:56Derrik Klassen: And those guys are crucial a for adjustments, making sure things are going the right way and representing the coach on the field and be just for executing it at a high level. So that's actually encouraging to hear because as soon as I saw that the Rams sign Grant Stewart, I was like, okay, well, even above of intrones units and in Cleveland haven't been very good. They clearly prioritized adding like an ass kicker to their special teams units. Yes, I do think it's useful

24:24Robert Mays: context and just understanding why those numbers might look the way that they do.

24:28Dave Helman: And that's some of the quieter stuff. But like we remember like the Rams lost to the Eagles game because of their special brother.

24:34Derrik Klassen: Like like a punt return against Seattle and that Eagles game. Like, yes, the margins were so like they could have hosted the NFC title game like it. If you don't screw up four or five special teams plays over the course of the year, it could have been there for you. So I think this has a lot of significance. seconds and I'm actually I feel better about it than I did when I was researching it because I was looking through it last night and I was like well the Browns special teams don't give me a whole lot of hope for this being better but okay you soothed my concerns a little bit because if I had to guess this is going to loom large in at least a game or two for the Rams I'm just looking at it

25:12Robert Mays: right now when he was in Indy three of the four seasons that he was in Indy they finished as a top half of the league special teams unit his last season in Indy I think they were like 26 and you You know what? As fun as it would be, Jay Harbaugh in Seattle had them at number two in special teams DVOA.

25:29Derrik Klassen: Like, as fun as it would be to really be the best special teams unit in the league, as long as they're not embarrassingly bad, it'll probably be fine.

25:37Robert Mays: As long as it's not your Achilles heel.

25:38Derrik Klassen: It clears the bar. I think that's the most important consideration.

25:41Robert Mays: And it has been their Achilles heel at times in the McVay era. Let's keep talking about Achilles heels. For each of these teams, we're going to talk about what is keeping us up at night with this team in 2026. Derek, why don't you kick us off? What is keeping you up at night about the Los Angeles Rams?

25:55Dave Helman: I mean, we could talk about some of the, you know, Stafford's still old and Devontae Adams is old, all that. I think to me, it's just that you've created a scenario where anything but winning the Super Bowl is a disappointment and a failure. That, like, never happens.

26:10Derrik Klassen: Man, I've said it all off season. It worries me. It never happens. If their speeches at the parade aren't good, I'm going to be disappointed. Like, that is the level of expectation with this team.

26:20Dave Helman: it's just like, again, like that level of the NFL is a pressure cooker to begin with. The fact that you have created an extra layer that really nobody else has ever stepped into or is equipped to handle. I just think, look, if anybody's built for it, I think it is Sean McVay. It's Matthew Stafford. It's these guys who have done really high pressure stuff before. But it is a lot. And it's a lot with a lot of new pieces, which I think is the other thing that is interesting.

26:45Robert Mays: I think it puts a lot on Sean McVay in a different way than normal, where the messaging, how you make sure you try to maintain that edge becomes really important. And I think it's just important to reframe it in these sorts of terms over and over and over again. Austin Mock at The Athletic had Super Bowl odds and just percentages that he put out this week, and his are right in line with a lot of what the industry has said. 15 % chance for the Rams to win the Super Bowl coming into the year. It's a small number. Yes. That is not a big number. It's the biggest number. But 15%, something that happens one and a half times out of every 10 is not a likely outcome.

27:24Robert Mays: What's the next biggest number, though? Do you know? I think that's probably like eight or nine percent. But still double everybody else. But still isolated is a remote occurrence to do something 15 % of the time.

27:35Dave Helman: And we still think that's the only acceptable outcome. Yes. And I don't think that's crazy.

27:42Robert Mays: That's what you have to do if you're Sean McVay.

27:45Derrik Klassen: it's more often than not almost always i'm gonna say it's incredibly hard to win a super bowl it's okay to give some of these teams and some of these players a little bit more grace than we do this is not one of those times correct so have fun managing that over the next five months what are you what's keeping you up and out about the rams similar i mean if you want to go away from just the expectations i mean this is this is an old roster my guy jimmy kemsky over at philly voice did the math when all the rosters became finalized they're tied for the third oldest roster in the nfl they're 26.9 years old on average davante is 33 stafford's 38 and we know has had some injury issues over his time in la miles garrett is turning 30 it's funny like they don't need aaron donald like they would be super bowl favorites if aaron donald hadn't decided to do this but he is a 35 year old major piece of this team at this point puk is not old but just plays with a reckless abandon and has not been completely trustworthy off the field either so that's another wrinkle that you got to throw in there and so it's a it's a lot of stuff to keep on the track it's a lot of potentially leaky parts that could break on you at some point during the

28:58Robert Mays: season i'm mostly where derek's at to put a finer point on it i'll just throw out the reliability of the offensive line and the depth of the offensive line overall yeah i mean them losing rob having to move on from Rob Havenstein essentially in the middle of last season, that's easier to do when you feel like you can go to a guy like Warren McClendon and be okay. The third tackle that they might have to turn to if something goes wrong might not even be on this roster right now.

29:21Derrik Klassen: You know what, though? I thought about that on my drive in. I was thinking about that very situation. And of course, over a long enough timeline, it might be the right call. But Monroe Freeling could be on this team and they chose Ty Simpson instead. You're telling me. Yes. Like how how sorry am I supposed to feel for the Rams? Oh, this is it's a self-inflicted thing.

29:41Robert Mays: A hundred percent. They did not bolster their chances of winning the Super Bowl this year with making that pick. The fact that he was in a battle to be the backup, it seems like it might be trending in a direction where they would turn to him if they had to. But even that in that situation, if Stafford's missing six games this year and they know that, I wonder if Jimmy G gets the call.

30:00Dave Helman: And he should. It's Stetson Bennett is not. where this team is that's not good enough and whatever Ty Simpson is going to give them is not good enough and like I think in most cases and in most teams and maybe I said this on on draft night I don't know to draft a Ty Simpson when your team is already good and trying to walk the line between winning championships and winning for the future I get it it's what the Packers were doing when they drafted Jordan Love it's what the Chiefs were doing when they drafted Patrick Mahomes I just think the math is different when you are so far into trying to win the championship this way.

30:32Dave Helman: Like at this point, it just makes more sense to me to commit. But they keep saying that like,

30:36Robert Mays: they were dancing around it. They were thinking about it. I'm with you. I would have done everything I could to protect myself with that pick if this year was as important as they were making it out to be. But I think you could also make the argument on the other side that finding an off-rampic quarterback when you're in this situation is incredibly difficult. And that's why they decided to do it.

30:53Derrik Klassen: I am the biggest Ty Simpson fan on this show. So I'm not going to, I'm certainly, I'm not trying to kill the pick, but I'm, I can't throw out sympathy for the Rams being thin at tackle when they had a chance to fix it and decide. Or receiver. Quarterback was more important.

31:08Robert Mays: They're thin at tackle, they're thin at receiver. They had the opportunity to address both of those things.

31:12Dave Helman: And that's an underrated one. I know Devontae Adams scored a bunch of touchdowns last year, but I think this team maybe gets to and wins the Super Bowl if Adams doesn't slow down at the end of the season. I think it was a hamstring issue, and he just wasn't able to get back to 100%. Who knows how much that carries into this season or if he gets a little bit more banged up or just one more year of NFL football slows him down. He's 34 years old. 34 at receiver.

31:33Robert Mays: And when you are a huge part of the offense,

31:35Derrik Klassen: that is an old player. I think that concerns me less because if they feel like they need to, the Rams could probably find a useful receiver for a third round pick in November. Tackle might be a little harder to do that. That's a, yeah, that's fair.

31:48Robert Mays: Nobody's trading their tackles like that. The other thing I'd throw out, this is much more specific, but I think it is a little bit tied to the quality of the offensive line overall. We've seen Stafford's performance vastly from year to year based on how the offensive line is playing. And so even if this group takes a small step back, because this isn't an offensive line, especially a tackle, it's full of star players. They're full of, it's an acceptable level of offensive line play. And so if you take a small step back from that, how much shakier do things feel? Where I think you feel that the most, this is a decidedly below average team on third down last year.

32:19Robert Mays: When they're not dictating with under center play action, being able to have everything on the table at all times on early downs, it's a slightly different version of the offense. And I think that's the area where you feel the offensive line the most because when it's third and eight and they're having to drop back, you sense that this is an offensive line that's built very differently than most offensive lines in the league and most offensive lines on good teams. Alaric Jackson was a seventh-round pick or undrafted?

32:45Dave Helman: I think he was undrafted.

32:46Robert Mays: So undrafted, and then Warren McClenday was a fifth-round pick. Fifth-round pick. This team is very, very different than a lot of other teams around the league. Like 64 tackles in the NFL, more than half of them were first round picks. This team is an outlier. And so you're going to feel that potentially in most situations, but especially on third down where they were not very good last year. Let's talk about what success looks like for the Los Angeles Rams. We can breeze through this pretty quickly. Come on. Yeah, do the thing. Yeah, that's it. This is the only team where that is the answer, but that is absolutely the answer.

33:17Robert Mays: They have to win the Super Bowl for this to be a success, which is always a fun place to be as you go into a season. All right, guys. Guys, before we get to the Seahawks preview, let's take a quick break. Are you the kind of sports fan that wants to dig into the story behind the stats? Join The Athletic Live on YouTube to cover all the sports stories you can't stop talking about. On game days, we'll watch the biggest matchups alongside The Athletic's most tapped-in reporters, and you can become part of the show in the interactive chat. The Athletic Live is presented by Google Gemini. Subscribe now on YouTube.

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36:28Robert Mays: Let's get to the Super Bowl champion Seattle Seahawks. Our preview for the 2026 Seahawks, their offseason in 60 seconds. Hired Brian Fleury as the offensive coordinator, brought in Dante Fowler and Rodney Thomas lost Boye Mafé, Kenneth Walker, Rick Wollin, and Kobe Bryant all in free agency. Drafted Jadarian Price, Bud Clark, and Julian Hill in the first three rounds. Derek, what are you most excited about with the 2026 Seahawks? I mean, this can still be the best defense in football.

36:58Dave Helman: And I've hemmed and hawed a little bit over, you know, you lose Boye Mafé for Dante Fowler. It's a little bit of a downgrade. What's it going to look like without Rick Wollin? And we'll talk about that later. But like, so long as Mike McDonald is still there and this front looks the way that it looks like they can be the best defense in football any given week in any given year and so I'm just incredibly excited to see them and I think the one thing I wanted to talk about just about like why they feel the way that they feel when I when I think of Houston and their defense it's like a western who can draw their pistol faster and they just do it faster every time because that's just how they're built trying to play against the Seahawks is like trying to play poker and they're just ahead of you every single step like you just are you can never get into the right call against them because they always find a way to just kind of abuse what you're doing and so I just think like they're a defense that because Houston plays so fast like some of their success rate is a tick higher on passing down stuff but the Seahawks don't get beat with explosive plays you can get Houston every now and then because a guy will chase

37:58Robert Mays: something whatever it may be just more single high overall yes and that's going to be part of it and

38:02Dave Helman: And Seattle had the lowest rate of explosive plays on dropbacks last year. And they didn't give up very many against the run either. Like you just, it's hard to flip the field against a team like this.

38:11Robert Mays: It's very funny that you said that because I actually use that exact same analogy when talking about Mike McDonald several different times on the training camp tour this year. Just talking about how he is the best poker player. Yeah. Like his ability, that's all you're doing as a play caller is you're essentially just playing odds and playing probabilities every single time over and over and over again, 70, 80 times a week. and he is the best at it. His ability to bucket information and make decisions based on what you do formationally in a certain down and distance, what your tendencies are, his understanding and synthesis of that information in real time is part of what makes him really, really special.

38:47Robert Mays: And I think the way they play sets them up to do that on top of everything he's giving you as a play caller. And that's kind of where I landed. My answer to this, what am I most excited about? This is a special defensive coach. this is what we've wanted on that side of the ball this is an answer to what McVay and Shanahan have been offensively for the last 10 years that is what Mike McDonald is and what is he what he has proven to be over the last three years what he did in Seattle to me is very similar to what Kyle Shanahan did in Atlanta where you get there it's year one you're a middle of the pack sort of team you're figuring out what you want to be it's an uneven experience and then in year two this thing takes off like a rocket ship because you know exactly what you need to be with that current personnel and I just think that he's a really special coach and I think the core of players they have unlocks everything he wants to be and how they want to play you talk about that's Texans front more specifically just being faster than you the Seahawks front is just tougher than you yes they are meaner they want they are just tougher than you like we talk about glass eaters That could be a misused phrase with some guys in the NFL.

39:57Robert Mays: That combination of dudes they have, including the edge players, it is unlike anything in the league. And that is where it starts. The talent and the depth that they have up front and their ability to cycle through these waves of players and even the idea of losing Boyamafe and then going out and getting Dante Fowler because you know you need a fourth one. Like they are so cognizant of how that depth is important and how they have to wield it. And what that allows them to do is just different than any other defense in the league. I said this on the defensive draft show. Per next gen, 34.5 % rushing success rate out of two high structures last year.

40:30Robert Mays: It's the best in the league. And they saw the second most of them. They play with the lightest boxes in football, them in Philly, and they have the best run defense in the league. Those two things should not be compatible. And because of who they have up front, it is. And then you have a coach who is the best situational play caller on that side of the ball in the league. So if you ever in third and eight, and there is a slight Death Star-like vulnerability to your pass protection, he's going to find it every single time. I've said this to a bunch over the course of this offseason. The three best blitzing teams of the next-gen era in EPA per play are the 2023 Browns, the 2023 Ravens, and the 2025 Seahawks.

41:10Robert Mays: He has two of them. And the other one had Miles Garrett, which, like,

41:14Dave Helman: Jim Schwartz is a really good play caller, but, like, that helps a lot.

41:18Derrik Klassen: it's funny you brought up star wars because i was thinking about the fact that they they call this defense the dark side yeah there it is yeah is mike mcdonald the sith like showing up to balance out the force from all these like jedis doing yes if you're sean mcveigh or kyle shanhan or

41:34Dave Helman: liam cohen yes he is yes he is i mean speaking of liam cohen one of the best games they had in terms of like picking on what an offense was doing in pass protection and i made a video about it during the year, you can go find it on our YouTube channel. What they did to the Jags pass protection plan, disgusting. I mean, Trevor Lawrence did not have a shot that entire game.

41:53Derrik Klassen: I know I said it a lot during the season last year, but yeah, it just, it felt like they were playing with 16 guys like all the time and we'll get to it. It, it feels a little thinner to me right now, but we haven't played a game yet. Like that could change in a hurry.

42:08Robert Mays: Let's do the positive version of that first, because I think when you look at a defense that now is starting Tai Okada from day one and has but I think the way that you can spin this in a positive way and optimistically is we have a defense and a system and a coach that has made a player player like Drake Thomas who would be in back half of the roster guy I think in a lot of situations a more than viable piece to this thing because he knows exactly how to use him right like the ways that they ask Drake Thomas to play make him a positive for this defense and not a liability and so even if you can look at the depth chart and say, hey, they're a little weaker here and maybe they're a little bit thinner here.

42:46Robert Mays: This is the situation where it just matters to me a little bit less because of how good they've been at hiding those vulnerabilities because of how they specifically ask those guys to play within the system.

42:56Derrik Klassen: And not only that, to bring it back to Mike McDonald, just his ability as a play caller and his ability to see things ahead of time and be in the right call and forecast what the offense is going to do. I just my own tendency is to lean on personnel more so than coaching but I'm absolutely trusting Mike McDonald in this situation where he even if he even if he does wind up having lesser personnel this year he'll make it work the same way we sit here and talk all the time about how Kyle Shanahan can have a top 10 offense with whatever you throw him together with him I I'm starting to feel that way about Mike McDonald when we do that we're doing movie references Jeff

43:38Robert Mays: Bridges from Iron Man. It's like he built that thing in a cave like with scraps like that's where we're at with Mike McDonald right now. And I choose to believe it, even if the personnel was maybe a slight takedown from where it was last year. But by the way, 85 percent of the personnel was still really, really good. I don't mean to give the impression that we talk about like they might take a step back.

43:58Dave Helman: It's just that they might not be a historic defense and that's OK.

44:01Derrik Klassen: OK, but I knew we were going to talk extensively about the defense, but I do think it's worth having a conversation about the offense because with all the oxygen that McDonald and the defense take up to me, at least it feels easy to just sort of put the offense on the back burner as like, Oh, they were good enough to do this. I think I'm excited about the fact that I think the Seattle offense can be a lot better than that. Like they can be a lot better than they're good enough to not get in the way. And I feel like that is the reputation that they have after the back half of last year in the playoffs.

44:38Derrik Klassen: I don't think that's fair. And I think it stems from changing the play caller. Obviously, Clint Kubiak goes to Las Vegas. But I love that Mike McDonald seemed to handle this problem in the most pragmatic way possible, where he was basically like, what can I do that's going to keep me from having to think overly much about this? And that's go get a guy that's versed in the same offense from the same tree and even the same team that Clint Kubiak used to work for. Like Brian Fleury, short of somebody who's done this extensively already, is probably the closest you can get to just keeping that train running.

45:14Derrik Klassen: And I admire the search for continuity.

45:17Robert Mays: Let's talk about that because that's what I'm watching over the first month of the season is what Brian Fleury's version of this offense looks like. I think there's a lot in what you just said. I think some of the schematic, the schematic carryover is part of it. I also think the other part of it is that in Brian Fleury, I think Mike McDonald has found someone who thinks about things in the way that he does. And I think it's more than just schematic continuity. I think he's also somebody they tabbed as the right person for the job based on how his mind works and how he wants to approach these things.

45:46Derrik Klassen: And we talked the other day about Mike McDonald being thorough and inventive in the way that he hires people. So I can't say I'm surprised to hear that.

45:55Robert Mays: We talked about this on the New Play Caller show. Brian Fleury's background is fascinating. He was the run game coordinator and tight end coach in San Francisco. He had been on that offensive staff for a couple different years in a couple of roles. before he was in San Francisco, he was the head of football research for the Dolphins for several years. And so he just spent all of his time figuring out esoteric situational football considerations as like somebody that worked in an analytics department. And then before that, he was a position coach on defense. I can't remember anybody who has had a background like this before.

46:30Robert Mays: And so I think that just the way his brain works and how he looks at offensive football is just different based on what his experience is than really anybody I've seen come in to be an offensive play caller in the league as long as I've been doing this.

46:42Derrik Klassen: Also, in addition to the defensive background and the analyst background with Miami, my ears at this point just perk up when I hear tight ends coach. It's a very good path to being a good offensive coordinator. If you need a refresher on what that means, this is an unscientific list of important offensive minds that spent significant time as a tight ends coach. Sean McVay, Ben Johnson, Kevin Stefanski, Dan Campbell, Drew Petsing, Nick Caley. Wes Phillips doesn't call plays, but he was a tight ends coach for a long time. He's an OC in Minnesota. And Declan Doyle was a tight ends coach before Ben Johnson brought him over.

47:17Derrik Klassen: It's not a guarantee that you're going to be good at this, but the mesh of understanding blocking concepts and understanding how the offensive line works combined with the need to understand route concepts and how everything ties together, it's just a job that lends itself to really understanding how all this shit works it's a

47:35Robert Mays: holistic view of the offense it is a holistic approach and you have to think about it in that way the stuff with flurry i i'm i'm of two minds about it because overall i agree with you in the sense that i do think there's a level to this offense that they could reach they did not reach last year a lot of that's based on continuity yes the offensive line coming back in its entirety the quality of the offensive line from last year gray's able going into year two the way that the tackles played feel very good about all that offensive line coach comes back which that doesn't always happen john benton is still there he was retained as the raiders hired a different offensive line coach i think rick dennison is there so you have that sort of continuity the year two pass catchers and i'm including rashid jahid in that in a way he's only there for half

48:17Derrik Klassen: the season they paid him 17 million dollars a year for 15 catches over the second half of the year like and i know he had huge special teams value but you don't pay him that contract without the

48:28Robert Mays: anticipation that his role absolutely yeah so she's eed elijah royo in year two tory horton in year two it's just a deeper collection of pass catchers than they had for most of last

48:37Derrik Klassen: they're bringing everything back with the exception of the play caller and and just and the running and and kenneth walker but like if you're plugging a hole on your offense and ironically i didn't really want them to draft a running back in the first round but now that they did it, that's the hole that I would most like to fill with a rookie, you know, like just plugging a first round talent like Jadarian Price in there. I'm not overly worried about the drop-off, especially knowing that Charbonnet will be back at some point during the year.

49:06Robert Mays: I'm excited about the personnel. I'm excited about the play caller and just I'm curious about him. The one thing that holds me back has nothing to do with Brian Fleury or the quality of the Seahawks offense, it's just really tapping back into the idea that Clint Kubiak was awesome last year. Like that, that it's not to take away from this group. It's to really give a lot of respect to the job that he did. So we talked about this in real time. I knew that the Seahawks offensive floor would get raised structurally. If you're going to be in a place where the run and pass game is tied together, you're going to be a play action, heavy personnel team.

49:39Robert Mays: You're going to dictate the way the games are played. You're going to look significantly better than you did the year before where your offensive approach was the exact opposite of that. That structure, play calling is different. He did both of them at such an incredibly high level. The ways that he weaponized JSN in that NFC championship game, all the ways he used him over the course of the season, some of the stuff that they did out of empty, just the buttons he was pressing in the right moment so often over the course of the year, that's hard. Not that many guys get to that level. Not that many guys to me had as demonstrative and obvious an impact on the quality of their offense as an offensive play caller last year as Clint Kubiak did.

50:17Robert Mays: And I don't think it's disrespectful to wonder if Brian Fleury is going to be able to do that even if I'm bullish on what he could potentially do in this role.

50:25Derrik Klassen: That's fair, and we've been frustrated so much by play callers not harnessing talented units in Philadelphia. It's not a guarantee that just because you have continuity that it's always going to be as good from year to year, but I don't think it's gonna be that sort of vacillation, but even if it's a step back, a slight step back, what does that mean? But with the amount of continuity that they have in personnel and, and some of this is just a deep seated trust in Mike McDonald. And the fact that I don't think this is a scheme overhaul. I just, I'm optimistic that this can be better than it's getting credit for at the

50:59Robert Mays: level. I agree with that level. I definitely agree with that. I think they can be a top 10 offense. I think they absolutely can be. Yeah.

51:05Dave Helman: There's there. I'm probably a little bit less optimistic on there, but like, it's, on the table and I was like I just think that this is a case too where I don't know how much Mike McDonald is involved in the offense but with as much as he is involved in everything and just how smart he is I imagine he has a little bit of tinkering of like we want to keep some things this way if we can hey this is what worked for this guy this is what worked for that guy and so I think that'll work and also too I know the Ryan Grubb hiring his first year was obviously a disaster I think sometimes like the first hire on a guy's first staff is just not going to be good And I think that he's learned so many lessons from that, obviously going to Kubiak, which is much more NFL.

51:39Dave Helman: And then what you say where he's it's very clearly staying within like a very NFL offense with Brian Fleury. Then going also for a guy who has such a unique background that it's like I think he's clearly learned something about how he wants this thing to go and be put together.

51:52Robert Mays: That I am fully on board and believe in the choice. Yeah, it's mostly just about respecting how good Kubiak was last year. Talking about what it'll look like just very quickly. A couple of things that I wonder what the blend is. I do think they'll carry over a huge portion of what they did a year ago. For obvious reasons, it worked. Quarterback is comfortable with it, and he's familiar with it, the play caller is. There are certain things I wonder if we see a little bit more that feel different. First one is just the way they use the fullback. Robbie Utz is hurt. He's out. And so you're going to Brady Russell, who they kept on the 53.

52:23Robert Mays: Those guys are like 35 pounds difference between them. And it was a lot of lead zone last year. A lot of lead zone. And they were doing that in the preseason, where it was Brady Russell's in the eye, and they're running just lead plays with him. I assume as we get deeper into the season, we see more fullback usage that is akin to the way the Niners use their fullback. Split zone type stuff. He's lined up as an H-back. If you look at the usage overall, Oots was used almost exclusively in the backfield last year. Juszczyk is almost exactly a split between backfield slot and inline. I think we'll see a little bit more of that, and I think that, to me, leads into how the run game might feel a little bit different.

53:00Robert Mays: Seattle last year was 29th in the NFL in motion at the snap rate on their runs per next gen. The Niners are sixth. Just think about all of those like slam plays where you're changing the formation strength right away. That to me is one, an expression of how the Niners run game was built with the run game coordinator that's now here. And two, think about if you were an outside linebackers position coach in the NFL. How tuned in are you to how difficult that type of run game is for that position specifically? And so that's the type of thing I think we see maybe a little bit more of with this version of the offense.

53:32Robert Mays: And then the last thing is, and you were going to talk about this too, The Niners were a team that got five out in the route more than any team in the NFL on a rate basis. Some of that is McCaffrey, but it's also you realizing the benefits of playing that way and what it does to space as you attack defenses. Seattle was not that sort of team last year. Heavy personnel, play action, chuck it down the field. With Price, do we see them get five out and use the back as a receiver in ways that aren't just screens, where he's just part of a, we're getting four out, this is how the concept works, because the Niners did a lot more of that than Seattle did last year.

54:07Dave Helman: And I think just like looking at their roster, unless Shahid just takes like a massive step for them and they really figure out his role, that probably is their like most obvious path to some sort of change. And to me, it's, I don't even really necessarily worry about can the offensive line handle that? Or is Darian Price going to be that level of pass catcher, even though he really didn't do it in college? To me, I wonder like how much is Sam Darnold going to be comfortable with that? Because last year, if I was reading True Media correctly, 46.1 % of his passes were from the gun only Matthew Stafford was lower than that um and when he was in the gun he was 20th out of 26 of qualifying quarterbacks in shotgun EPA per drop back and that falls a little bit to 22nd if you take out the empty stuff which I do think like empty versus gun is a little bit different just like what you're asking the quarterback to do is totally totally and to be fair Darnold's success rate out of the gun was pretty high it was top 10 but that's because again he's I think if you're going to be in the gun he's a little bit more comfortable quick game is okay maybe I can chuck a go ball but when it's a little bit more five out in the route boom boom boom boom boom that's just not ever what he's been super comfortable with the Niners quarterbacks it's what the Niners quarterbacks are excellent at and so I wonder how much and I don't expect him to be like Purdy or anything I don't expect it to be that but if that can be five percent more of the offense and it works for you that's kind of what I'm interested

55:23Robert Mays: that's that's my assumption I don't think it's going to be a situation where it's a huge percentage of what they do for two reasons. One, I think one of the reasons that the Niners went so far away from the play-action world compared to what the Seahawks do now, like if you look at the Niners' play-action rates over the last five years, they are not a play-action team anymore. They're not. They're not a center team, but they're not a play-action team as much anymore. Because honestly, Purdy couldn't do what Darnold does in the play-action team. He doesn't have the arm for it. Purdy is so good at cycling through that stuff quickly that you're playing to the quarterback's strengths and you have the best pass catcher back in the league.

55:53Robert Mays: So you remove both of those things, you shouldn't do it to the same level that the Niners are doing it. But I think incorporating it as a part of the offense in order to keep diversifying, because Sam was there in 23 when they started incorporating all this stuff. It's not foreign to him. I think it's just a matter of how much you lean into it based on the pieces that you have, including the quarterback. Dave, what are you watching the first month of the season?

56:16Derrik Klassen: We covered, I mean, Jesus, I think we covered everything you could possibly have to say about the Seahawks offense right there. But Jadarian Price and what he looks like. and Emmanuel Wilson is here. I guess that's worth mentioning George Helani too, but I hope if you drafted him 32nd overall that Jadarian Price is going to do the lion's share of this quickly. And what does he look like? It's a great point on Derek's part. They've said up at Seahawks camp that he can do receiver stuff and have a larger role doing that. It's not what he did in college. Something like 15 career catches is just not what Notre Dame did.

56:53Derrik Klassen: So how quickly he adapts to that, how quickly he adapts to all of the intricacies of playing running back in the NFL, pass protection, like if he's going to be out there most of the time, or do you have to take him off the field in obvious passing situations?

57:07Robert Mays: Hopefully not, but I think that's going to be a situation where Helani does play in those situations. And this is something the fantasy community has done a really good job of hammering home all summer. Most running back receptions happen on early downs. You're not throwing the ball to the back on third down on purpose. Right. So what you're asking the back to do on third down is to protect. If you want to unleash Dardarian Price as a pass catcher, early downs is when you're going to do most of that. And so the idea of Helani playing on third down doesn't take away from a lot of the best pass catching opportunities you'd be giving to Dardarian Price.

57:40Derrik Klassen: No, I don't worry about the pass catching opportunities. I just, I hate having a running back where if I know I need to throw, he probably needs to come off the field because it just makes me predictable. Like, if you've got to bring George Helani in because you don't trust Jadarian Price to, like, get across and pick up the blitzer, that worries me.

57:59Robert Mays: I think most of that stuff is in defined passing situations, though, where you're going to be using him. It's second and long. It's third down. That's my assumption. Dave, what is keeping you up at night about the 2026 Seattle Seahawks?

58:11Derrik Klassen: I think Derek and I are in lockstep on this and have been, But and it's it's nitpicking. But that's what we're doing when you're talking about the reigning Super Bowl champs. But the depth chart on defense, particularly in the secondary, looks a little bit thin. And if you don't believe me, just let the Seahawks show you with their actions. They went after Terry and Arnold, who was in the middle of a B &E kidnapping fiasco looking for help. He got put on the commissioner's exempt list, so he can't help you. They bring in Trayvon Diggs, who's been banged up and hasn't been the same player the last few years.

58:50Derrik Klassen: They cut him. Then John Schneider says they're interested in bringing him back to the practice squad. And then they do a trade for Avery Smith, who is an impressive undrafted corner down for the Chargers. They are screaming at us that they don't love their cornerback depth chart. And I understand why losing Reek Willen is a big deal. I loved the job that Josh Jobe did last year. and he deserves the contract that they gave him in free agency. But, and you know who, it reminds me of Riley Moss, who we talked so much about, who was, he was targeted like 120 times last year. Cause you have, you're going to get targeted a lot and you're going to get beat a lot.

59:29Derrik Klassen: And like the mark of a good CB2, CB3 is, can you live with that? And are you getting as good as you get? Josh Jobe was excellent last year as the guy who was like, well, we don't want to go with spoon and we might not want to try reek. Like, where are we going with this? And he was up to that challenge. Particularly, I thought he was so excellent in the postseason. Oh, my God, yeah. But now, if he moves up a rung because Reek's not here, and like, especially when Spoon moves inside, which I assume he's still going to do plenty of, who's that other guy? And teams are going to circle him in bright red ink and say, Avery Smith is an undrafted rookie, and they're playing him because Julian Neal didn't have a training camp.

1:00:11Derrik Klassen: We're going at that guy. And even Mike McDonald might not be able to deal with the problems that come with that.

1:00:18Dave Helman: And I think part of their excitement about being able to play they want to play is like, OK, if Spoon can play on the outside and Joe can play on the other side, we want Nick Imanwari to be our starting nickel. He's like iffy to play week one.

1:00:28Derrik Klassen: He's hurt. He hasn't played all summer.

1:00:30Dave Helman: He had an ankle surgery in July and like didn't get cleared until earlier in August. And then he really, again, Brady Henderson of ESPN was like, he might not play week one, which is why they've been so scrambling trying to get guys into the building. And so you just look at like their safety depth chart. They don't really have a ton of guys. The corners right now on the outside, outside of Devin Witherspoon are Nehemiah Pritchett, who's played like 200-ish snaps the last two years for this team. And then Julian Neal, who's a third round pick. I have some amount of faith, obviously, that like McDonald can get something out of them and it won't sink.

1:01:00Dave Helman: But again, the difference between it won't sink and we can get by and we have Tariq Wollin as the corner three, it's a huge, huge difference.

1:01:08Derrik Klassen: You know what I think about a lot when I'm prepping for stuff like this and thinking about the Seahawks? They were banged up when they played Tampa last year. And got smoked. And even the mighty Seahawks looked like that when they were down a few guys. And that's going to happen anyway over the course of a 17-game season. But it's especially problematic when you're already kind of scrambling before you've even started playing.

1:01:30Robert Mays: Yeah, you look at it right now. I mean, I think he, I want to say that even where he was back on the practice field like last week, He passed a physical in mid-August, but he has not been practicing for most of the offseason. And so even if he's theoretically healthy early in the season, we have a second-year player who did not practice the entire offseason. So that's worth mentioning. Julian Hill, Julian Neal, like you said, Dave, is banged up for most of training camp. Bud Clark is already on IR. And so the guys that you drafted to theoretically be some of these depth pieces that could bolster you in these areas, you are not going to be able to rely on.

1:02:02Robert Mays: And the quarterback depth becomes even more worrisome in a world where you don't have him in worry and you feel compelled to play Witherspoon inside until he gets back. And so it's just so much thinner than it was. Last year, you could live with Tai Okada for stretches and all this other stuff because those guys were the depth pieces. Now they're starting from day one. What does that look like for an extended period of time? So that's I'm in the exact same boat. Like we're already digging into the defensive back depth before the season has even started. And that's what would be keeping me up at night.

1:02:33Another thing I think is worth noting is just the average age of the D-line room is 29.

1:02:39Derrik Klassen: And that's including everybody. Like Riley Mills is a young player. Mike Morris is a young player. If you just go by the seven or eight dudes that we expect to do the heavy lifting, the average jumps up to 30. Byron Murphy and Derek Hall are really the only young guys among the real contributors. Tank Lawrence is 34. Jaron Reed is 33. Leonard Williams and Dante Fowler are 32. which in a new osu turns 30 during the season And it's always a consideration. And you mentioned this, DeMarcus Lawrence has been banged up. He's had his fair share of injury problems. And the superpower of this team is those waves and waves of guys.

1:03:19Derrik Klassen: And you can blink and look up in week seven and it doesn't look quite as good because two of those guys are out.

1:03:26Robert Mays: Let's talk about what success looks like for the 2026 Seahawks. Derrik, what do you got?

1:03:31Dave Helman: I mean, I think it's make it back to the NFC Championship. and I know that there's a lot of change here and we just talked about how thin the defense is but to me the NFC is like it's the Rams and the Seahawks and then it's a handful of teams we think might be good but these are really the only two where I'm positive that they should be pretty

1:03:46Robert Mays: good which is that informs my answer get back to the Rams playoff game however that may get

1:03:52Dave Helman: wherever it happens in the divisional sure that counts no that's a really good way get back to

1:03:57Robert Mays: the Rams playoff game because it could happen in the divisional round if you're a wild card team One of these teams is going to be a wildcard team. So get back to that game against the Rams. Don't lose to like the Cowboys or the Lions in the wildcard round.

1:04:09Derrik Klassen: Make sure that the Rams have to beat you to get to the Super Bowl. Yes. Improve it. That's good. Since 2000, six defending champions have gotten back to the Super Bowl. Five of those teams were built around a Mount Rushmore quarterback, Mahomes or Brady. The one team that wasn't was the Seahawks. so there's some some fun juju for you and they should have won it again they should they yeah one play away wow it's doable i don't think it's fair to expect the seahawks to get back to the super bowl i said i like your answer but i said make a good faith effort at repeating don't go out don't go out sad in the wild card round at least get to the divisional round of the playoffs And of the 26 defending champions since 2000, I think six have lost in the divisional round.

1:05:00Derrik Klassen: One more is lost in the conference championship. And then the six that got to the Super Bowl. So about half are good enough to at least win a playoff game. I think this roster is good enough to at least win you a playoff game. I think anything short of a divisional round would feel kind of disappointing. We deserve another three rounds of Ram Seahawks. Oh, my God. We deserve it. This version of it, we really do. And I want it. That sounds so fun. I wish they were starting the season against each other. But you don't want to waste those ratings on week one. It's okay.

1:05:33Robert Mays: All right, before we get to the Niners, let's take our second quick break.

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1:08:39Robert Mays: Let's get to the San Francisco 49ers. Our preview for the 2026 Niners. Brought in Raheem Morris as the defensive coordinator. Signed Mike Evans, Christian Kirk, traded for Osa Digizua, Dre Greenlaw, Debo Samuel, and just traded for Jarrett Patterson. Lost Kendrick Bourne, Jordan Elliott, and Jawan Jennings in free agency in the draft. John Stribling in the second round, Romello Height, Kalen Black, and Carver Willis. What are you most excited about, Dave, with the 2026 San Francisco 49ers?

1:09:07Derrik Klassen: Kyle Shanahan drawing up ball plays for a healthy Brock Purdy and I hope a healthier skill group. And I say Brock Purdy first because I think it's easy to forget after a nine-month offseason that he missed half of the year last year. The guy who's been a top 5-10 EPA per play quarterback missed half the season. And on top of that, the 49ers were leaning on Kendrick Bourne, Demarcus Robinson, and Jake Conjus to play like meaningful roles in their offense. And top 10 offense. Hey, if Purdy's out there, I feel good about it. To your point, you know where they ranked the one year in the last five that they haven't been top 10 in EPA?

1:09:49Derrik Klassen: 2020. Was it 11? It was 11. 2024, when they were also beat to shit, they finished 11th. They finished second in offensive DVOA last year. They're going to be good. Barring another complete health collapse, which unfortunately you can't rule out. No, you can't. If we can just get moderately decent health. I mean, George Kittle's already on the 53. That's incredibly encouraging. Christian McCaffrey, I haven't heard anything overly alarming in the last 10 days. A little looser. A little looser. He wasn't on the most of August. And Mike Evans, I don't know if that, I don't know if that existential dread is ever going to go away, just given his age and his own injury history.

1:10:28Derrik Klassen: We'll talk about it. But this could be a really, really fun offense because it always is. And I'm just banking on them having better luck than they have the last two years.

1:10:39Dave Helman: I mean, mine is just an extension of this. Like, for one, Kyle Shanahan, especially I think over the last three or four years, the offense has always looked different. There's been something that they've been able to iterate. I'm just excited for Kyle Shanahan to go all the way back to step one where he has like a real X receiver now when is the last time he had one it might be Julio Jones no Iuke was a real X receiver I I think in in this is different the Iuke like phase feels like it never happened at this point Iuke was like an X receiver who can like slash over the middle and do some of that Like, this is more the Andre Johnson, Josh Gordon, Julio Jones, like, real deal X receiver in my mind.

1:11:20Robert Mays: Maybe I'm just picky about what X receiver is. So I think that's fair. I think the distinction that's important with that is Ayuk was incredibly good on vertical route stuff, but it was deep outbreakers, deep inbreakers, comebacks. You could leave him isolated outside the numbers. He was not a I'm running by you down the sideline as a vertical player in the way that Mike Evans still is. Mike Evans can still take a go ball and pluck it off somebody's head. Can we talk about this? That is not who Brandon Ayuk was.

1:11:46Derrik Klassen: These notes are later on in my notebook, but maybe it's just been so long since Kyle Shanahan had this guy. What do you think it's going to look like? Mike Evans, over the last four years, has run nine routes, go balls, on 23 % of his routes going back to 2022. It's top 20 among all qualified receivers. The Niners, I mean, obviously everybody throws go balls, but that's not what they've done in recent years.

1:12:14Robert Mays: That's why he's there. Because if you look at the way the teams are starting to play against them, especially in the back half of the season, they could not threaten teams outside the numbers down the field. The Seahawks knew that, and it completely defanged them offensively. Having somebody that is a viable threat in that area of the field where you have to account for them uncorking some of those to that guy is the way for this offense to be fully unlocked again. That's why he's here.

1:12:40Dave Helman: they had to become a condensed like two by two shotgun offense like that's what it all became and it was like we're gonna get everybody out we're gonna condense the thing then we're gonna spread it out Purdy's gonna go one two three four five he's gonna hit somebody I do think and I don't have the numbers on it but I would wager they had some of the fewest routes from my receiver where he aligned on the outside like they just did not do that a whole lot because Shanahan's always played a little bit tighter but like especially because they don't have a guy they just didn't do it and then the other thing that i would add according to ftn here are the 49ers receivers last year who had at least a 45 contested catch rate ricky pierce all is not going to play kendrick bourne is on a different team in the division now uh juan jennings also on a different team he's with the minnesota vikings the last time mike evans qualified for the stat which was in 2024 he was at 54.5 like they just haven't had a ball winner really i like i mean they don't on the roster now if mike evans isn't going to be that even if they did have some guys like that

1:13:35Derrik Klassen: last year even with your point about iuk it just feels like it's been forever since i've seen a

1:13:40Robert Mays: receiver like this play in kyle shanahan's offense so last year the niners were in condensed formations on 64.6 of their plays no other team in the league was above 54.2 that would be the seattle seahawks so it's a 10 percentage point difference there was a bigger gap between them and seattle at number two than there was between seattle and the jaguars who were three four five five, six, seven, eight, nine in 10th. And there's other stuff I want to look up now because you're sending me down a rabbit hole, but I think that's enough to get your point across.

1:14:10Dave Helman: And that's one of those things that like, you love that Kyle Shanahan is so good at this that they can have a top five offense doing that. I don't think he or they want to live that way. I think that was a like, we figured something out in the moment and we're going to get by with what we can. But like, I think if he wants to, he wants to have more pitches in his bag.

1:14:26Derrik Klassen: You think Kyle Shanahan's tired of having to scramble all this together?

1:14:30Robert Mays: Probably. Just think about playing Seattle. Just think about playing Seattle in the way that Seattle wants to play. If you're a team that can only throw the ball in the short and intermediate area of the field over the middle of the field against a Seattle defense that turns that area into a snake pit, it's going to be a bad time for you. And you couldn't run the ball either. Yes. Here, that's the problem, though, which we can talk about if you want to. That's not keeping me up at night. There's bigger picture things that are keeping me up at night. That is the one caveat to this idea of, man, this offense can just get back rolling again.

1:15:03Robert Mays: Mike Evans isn't helping the run game. The run game was very average last year. You have a running back that had a lot of touches. You have an offensive line that is solid, but is going to be starting a rookie at left guard. And they did not assert themselves on the ground last season in the way that they had previously. And if you look at some of McCaffrey's underlying numbers from last year, there's some wear and tear in that body. I just try not to think about it. but that if that's if we're talking about like i know all right well if the team is going to play against you and they're going to be in all these umbrella coverages and they're going to be in all these light boxes the ability to tack outside vertically outside the numbers is one way that you can feel different than last year but if you can't run the ball in those situations then that still could be a fatal flaw that we see carry over from last year to this year maybe maybe the ability to push the ball down the field loosen some of that stuff up a little bit but against seattle does it really they're playing that way either way against the best teams it probably is not

1:15:58Derrik Klassen: going to help you a whole lot the other thing worth mentioning i love that the year they went and got mike evans they also drafted the 6-2-2-15 receiver that runs a 4-3-6 that's the other part

1:16:09Robert Mays: of it too is that he has way more outside giddy-up than joan jennings did and so now do you have two guys it's that theoretically could give you that that you didn't have last year i'm banking all of

1:16:18Derrik Klassen: this on preseason hype but the way that they were targeting him and what he did in the preseason He looked good. If Sribling is ready to go quickly, then the Niners have so much more juice than I've associated them with them over the last two or three years.

1:16:34Robert Mays: And post-Pearsall. The idea of Pearsall with Evans, then it was a situation where, all right, you can bring Sribling along slowly. He could be a role player. Now he's going to need to be more than that. But the encouraging part of the summer is it seems like he might be ready to be more than that. And I don't want to overreact to camp hype in a couple of preseason games, but this would be a situation

1:16:52Derrik Klassen: where maybe it's worth doing that 18 preseason targets and doing shit with those targets feels meaningful especially given what the depth chart looks like like if yes exactly if kirstall was healthy and he was doing that i'm like okay well that's fun to remember for november but i think it accelerates it a little bit with the injury i mean we know what debo is at this point

1:17:12Robert Mays: yeah shirpling is the second most important receiver on the team right now and we're a mike evans hammy away from him being the most important receiver on the team which is a different conversation. Let's talk about what we're watching the first month of the season with the Niners. Derek, what do you got for me?

1:17:27Dave Helman: I mean, this may be borders on keeping me up at night, but like, can this team generate pressure or not? And I think that we will find out pretty soon. Obviously, last year, they're not playing with Nick Bosa for a lot of the season, not playing with Fred Warner, which I think like weirdly is going to hurt some of your pressures if quarterbacks just think that they can get the ball out over the middle of the field a little bit easier and in coverage um but last year when they were rushing for this team was 30th in pressure rate and 31st in sack rate they were a little bit better by epa per drop back because i've said a handful of times before the secondary is not bad yeah it's good it's just that the front was not helping them in any sort of meaningful way and so i think you bring in a guy like oso digizua who has a lot of pop to him nick boso you hope come comes back in i think asking for pro bowl stuff from him right away is probably a lot but if he can just be better than all the guys they had last year and i think he will be i think that goes a long way maybe romello height can give you a little bit something like there's reason to believe this pass rush can get off the ground i'm just excited to see if that means like are they going back to average or is this back to a unit that like you are a little

1:18:29Derrik Klassen: bit scared about when you get into third downs i know this is a small sample size because bosa got hurt in like week three but i'm comfortable leaning on it because nick bosa has been incredible for most of his career their pressure rate was 10 points higher when he was on the field last year than when he was off. It was, they were up near 40%. They were in the top half of the league in pressure rate in the early season before he got hurt. And they fell all the way down to 31st. I don't know if it's going to be that good over a 17 game sample size, but adding Osa certainly doesn't hurt. And so I just, if he's there and you add Osa to it, I just, I think this will be functional, which it was not functional last year.

1:19:11Derrik Klassen: It was like the whole problem with their defense because to your point, There were so many fun things that happened with the back seven last year just because they didn't have a choice. But the inability of the front to do anything made it look way worse than it would have otherwise. And obviously, Fred Warner as well. I just think if they look like who they are or who we know them to be, I just think it completely changes the calculus for this defense. Not to say it'll be top five in the league, but it'll be a functional, solid NFL defense. And it was not that last year. no matter how much I enjoyed watching the young guys try.

1:19:47Robert Mays: It was not. It was bad. It was actively bad for almost the entire season, especially after losing both of those guys. I'll take mine as like a slight pivot off of that. What do we get from this defense? And I asked that on a couple different fronts. We haven't really talked about the fact that Raheem Morris is the defensive coordinator for this team now. We just, that hasn't really come up.

1:20:06Derrik Klassen: It's kind of like they, the old joke was when Nick Saban coached at Alabama, like Nick Saban's coach resuscitation program. That's what the D.C. job in San Francisco has become.

1:20:17Robert Mays: And even including Brandon Staley was there for a year before he got the job in New Orleans. So I I wonder what it looks like. Like Raheem Morris schematically comes from a very different place than Robert Sala does. And so do we see more five man fronts? Do we see a different coverage menu? Like what does the Raheem Morris version of this defense look like? In the preseason, it mostly looks like a lot of four down nickel stuff. But I've heard that they've been experimenting based on stories. people have written from training camp with more five down stuff, walking the linebacker down. So how much front diversity do we see?

1:20:49Robert Mays: And just how different is the defense and how different does it feel compared to what we saw solid do and what they've done for the most part over the last several years? That's question one. The other question is how good is it? Because even if the pass rush is better, and I don't want to start talking about the injury stuff yet because we're saving what's keeping us up at night. Bosa hasn't played. He hasn't practiced. He said yesterday he thinks he'll be able to play week one. But he's had tendinitis in that knee the entire summer. And he's a guy that has had trouble staying healthy. So the idea that he could be a slightly diminished version of himself.

1:21:22Robert Mays: Odigizu, great. Mikel Williams, starting the year on the Pup List. Yeah, he's out until week five. So now we're already chipping away at the defensive line depth. And even if the pass rush is going to get better, this team finished dead last in run defense success rate last year. Fred Warner helps that, obviously. but the interior of the defensive line to me as a pass as a run defense unit is still incredibly concerning yeah when we went back and we watched the defense from last year i think there was some optimism about what michael williams could be with a little bit more development that development is already stunted coming into year two but then the other defensive front guys on that team that rookies last year it wasn't good no and so that front a dickie's always 280 yeah he's not he's a

1:22:05Derrik Klassen: penetrator yeah he's good at that he's great at that but this is the worst run defense in the

1:22:11Robert Mays: league last year by success rate per next gen how much better does that get can can uh fred warner save you there is that enough maybe but i am worried about some of the other elements of the defense and by the way talk about the secondary renardo green also missing the first game yeah

1:22:27Derrik Klassen: after hurting his hamstring in the playoffs not great what's your level of belief that being back in San Francisco standing next to Fred Warner will make Dre Greenlaw a more viable player?

1:22:39Robert Mays: I think he's probably going to be fine. I don't think he'll be worse than Dee Winters. Yes. I mean, that's all it needs to be. To me, it's more about the front. The front is where my concern lies.

1:22:49Dave Helman: I think if three other spots on the defense are better, you feel totally fine about Dre Greenlaw just slotting in for whatever Dee Winters gave you last year. You're still going to be able to move Oso Digizuo around, and I do think that Alfred Collins needs to take a step as what they hope to be more of their like space eating sort of guy. I think the hope is that you are incrementally better as a success rate run defense, but that a guy like Oso Adigizua and being able to send Greg Greenlaw a little bit, that just gets you into the backfield a couple more times. If we can get more second and twelves, we can start the snowball effect there.

1:23:22Dave Helman: And I think that that's a lot of it, what it comes down to to me, because they just weren't able to do a whole lot of that last year either.

1:23:27Robert Mays: I'm looking at it right now just because I'm curious. plays hit behind the line of scrimmage. They were like a bottom 12 unit, 36.6 % of snaps.

1:23:37Dave Helman: Which doesn't sound crazy, but think about how they play. It has to be better with what you are trying to accomplish.

1:23:44Robert Mays: I mean, let's, for example, let's talk about other teams that play this sort of system, okay? The Niners last year were at 36.6%. The Browns were at 47.6%. That led the league, right? But that's the type of defense we're talking about. Now, Houston kind of right in the middle at 41%. So these teams that play those attacking fronts, in order for that to work for you, you have to be making negative plays. And they just weren't making a ton of them. They had a 15.8 % stuff rate last year, which is also a below average rate. And so those numbers can't be below average if you're also going to be small.

1:24:16Robert Mays: Let's talk about what is keeping us up at night with these San Francisco 49ers. I'll start. This thing feels rickety as hell. you know it's like a roller coaster it's like i'm reading uh i'm riding uh what is it what's the what's the one at six flags american eagle uh so like i'm i'm riding the american eagle with six flags six flags great america in dallas it's the texas giant i i know fun at bush gardens in

1:24:42Dave Helman: florida it was guazi until they replaced it now it's iron guazi because they just made it that's

1:24:46Derrik Klassen: right because you should replace it when it starts feeling rickety wooden roller coasters are so much more fun. I actually do enjoy it.

1:24:52Robert Mays: I do enjoy the feel of a wooden roller coaster. The Viper over there at Six Flags is wonderful, but this thing feels pretty rickety. We've touched on a lot of them, but just reading through all of the considerations here, Bosa still not practicing tendonitis in the same knee where he tore his ACL last year, Christian McCaffrey missing a huge chunk of training camp coming off a 400 touch season. There have been 15 seasons where a running back has touched the ball at least 375 times since 2010. About half of those seasons involved dramatic fall-offs in production for those players the next year.

1:25:25Robert Mays: Derrick Henry in 2021, Christian McCaffrey himself in 2020, DeMarco Murray in 2015, Josh Jacobs in 2023. Saquon last year still ran for 1 ,000 yards. You think Saquon looked right last year? Oh, no, it was not the same. So we have a 30-year-old back that touched the ball 400 times last year that already has been banged up for stretches of his career.

1:25:44Dave Helman: And I think that's the other thing. I think in some cases you could maybe get me there on a guy who had this amount of volume still being okay. Christian McCaffrey has done exactly this already where he's had this sort of workload. He's always been a pretty high workload guy. And he was six years younger.

1:25:58Robert Mays: Yes. We've seen this story before. Yeah. Mike Evans missed nine games last year, three the year before that. Some different part of his body is wrapped after every single practice. We've had an ankle. We've had a quad. It's all over the place. Michael Williams is on the pup list. Renardo Green was hurt in the final preseason game. I'm worried about this.

1:26:17Dave Helman: Did we mention Drake Greenlaw?

1:26:18Robert Mays: No. Missing most of last season? That happens with Drake Greenlaw. I am, as somebody who has the Niners in the wins pool and the offenses draft, I am officially concerned.

1:26:28Derrik Klassen: When it's bad in San Francisco, it's really bad. Like, we've never seen an 8-9 Kyle Shanahan 49ers team. It's either abysmal or they're in the divisional round of the playoffs. No in-between.

1:26:41Robert Mays: to be fair the injury situation was terrible last year and they were in the divisional round of the playoffs if you're trying to be generous and that might happen again but what's keeping me up at night is that the best version of this team is potentially scary they're a team that could potentially make some noise i just don't know how realistic it is for us to realize the best

1:27:00Dave Helman: version of this team and that's the thing even if you can say oh well they did it last year they can do it again maybe and they won what 12 games last year 13 maybe well did anyone really think that they were going to get through like the Seahawks and they got blown away. They got hammered twice in a row. Yes, exactly.

1:27:16Derrik Klassen: All right. The, the regular season finale was not getting blown away. The office was wiped off the field. but the defense held their own,

1:27:24Dave Helman: but the offense looked like they couldn't play.

1:27:26Derrik Klassen: The fluke, the fluke fumble in the red zone changed the entire complexion of that. The final score is whatever.

1:27:31Robert Mays: I'm talking about the offensive performance and what you felt from the offense by the end of that game. Compare a much more healthy unit than the defense.

1:27:37Derrik Klassen: Compare week 18 or whatever it was to the divisional round.

1:27:41Robert Mays: The playoff game was crazy.

1:27:41Derrik Klassen: It's unbelievable. Anyway, we're arguing over some of this.

1:27:44Robert Mays: This is not about the final score. This is about how the offense felt. We had like a BB gun against the tank situation in both of those games for the Niners offense. That is what it felt like. Yeah, that's fair.

1:27:56Derrik Klassen: I do. Everything you just said is right. Particularly for me, I worry about Mike Evans because the rest of these guys are like died in the wool. 49ers. Even McCaffrey has been there long enough now that he feels like a Niner. I would hate it so much. And I'm obviously really excited about what this could look like for Mike Evans, like working with Kyle Shanahan, playing with Brock Purdy, can be their downfield stretcher. But also it's just so easy to daydream about him running like 20-yard digs and just getting these huge chunk gains. It's going to suck. If Mike Evans, the greatest Buccaneer of all time, probably, oh yeah yeah oh whoa all the time hold on yeah on offense hold on yeah

1:28:41Robert Mays: yeah brooks was pretty good okay good ron and sap and ron the greatest offensive buccaneer of all time i don't even think that's let's just leave it

1:28:49Dave Helman: at the greatest offensive who else would it even be like work done work my

1:28:52Derrik Klassen: ball start yeah that's what we're talking about he is a he was a lifelong buck the image of him in that uniform doing cool shit for the Buccaneers. And if in five years they're using a photo of Niner Mike Evans, the way that we do with like Celtics shack. Yeah. Oh, that's disgusting. I don't want to be like, oh man, remember when we were dumb enough to be excited about Niner Mike Evans? Ravens, the Andre Hopkins. So like I, if this goes bad, I'm just going to spend the whole time thinking like, uh, we could have just, you could have just stayed in Tampa and we would have this pristine image of Mike Evans.

1:29:30Derrik Klassen: And so I just, I need him specifically to stay healthy. Cause I'm, I'm, I'm at peace with all these other guys being banged up. Cause that's what happens to the Niners. I am not sure. Well, you have something invested in this.

1:29:42Dave Helman: I've got nothing invested in them really. I don't think so. I'm good.

1:29:45Robert Mays: What's you keeping you up at night? Same thing.

1:29:47Dave Helman: I mean, it's, I think this one is one of the easier ones that we've done for any of the 32 teams. It really is just injury. Cause I obviously trust the coaching, especially on offensive side of the ball. Like they have enough star players that if they can stay 70 % as healthy as you want all these guys to, they are going to be an 11-win team. It's just a matter of like that feels really, that just does not feel like the most likely outcome, I would say.

1:30:12Robert Mays: That's going to be fine. What does success look like, Dave, for the 2026 San Francisco 49ers?

1:30:18Derrik Klassen: I really hate the position that this team puts you in because we just outlined all the reasons why we shouldn't have high expectations for this team or the ways that it could go sideways. And also, they got a lot of young players. And I think it's worth noting that, you know, we have this concrete image of the 2022 through 2023 for Niners. these teams that were in Super Bowls and it's CMC and George Kittle and Trent Williams and Nick Bosa and Debo Samuel. They are cycling the roster over like young talent is coming into this team, whether it's the rookies that played defense last year or you're excited about scribbling.

1:31:00Derrik Klassen: Michael Williams will be back at some point. For any other team, you could come up with the way that this season is successful if if those guys just develop and you you surpass some expectations but for where this franchise has been and where the core of players has been is anything short of a championship gonna make anybody feel better i love that you're doing this

1:31:23Robert Mays: because i had such a hard time answering the question for this exact reason what are you

1:31:28Derrik Klassen: supposed to tell trent williams christian mcafree nick bosa fred warner and mike evans if this thing You're like, hey, our rookies got our rookies had a good season and we went nine and eight and next year is going to be great.

1:31:38Robert Mays: You think any of them want to hear that? You're 100 percent right. And that's why I didn't know the answer, because for most teams with their preseason expectations, but oh, you know, you get to the divisional round. Great. You know, get the vision around.

1:31:51Dave Helman: You feel not like you're going to get blown out by the Seahawks.

1:31:53Robert Mays: But even if that happens, let's just say this team gets the divisional round. They go punch for punch, haymaker for haymaker with the Seahawks or the Rams and they lose. Is that success?

1:32:03Dave Helman: No, we're going to be having the when is Kyle Shanahan going to do it conversations.

1:32:07Robert Mays: And think about all the guys who might not be on the team next year.

1:32:11Derrik Klassen: The stuff that makes this team good at its best, other than, and I meant to mention too, like Purdy's young and he's under contract and that's exciting. But again, the core that made these teams so special, they're aging out. They're closer to the end of their careers than the beginning by a long shot. I mean, part of me is still amazed that Trent Williams is still playing NFL football. Should be, yeah, at this level.

1:32:36Dave Helman: And I think even if they're good, we've already seen the best football from Mike Evans, Trent Williams, George Kittle, Christian McCaffrey. Probably Nick Bosa, too. We've already seen their best football. And they can still be really good, but the best is gone.

1:32:48Derrik Klassen: They're victims of their own success. Like, because of how close they've been without a trophy to show for it, that's all I can think about is, like, what are you and and what are you supposed to tell fans that have been within a completion to brandon iuke in overtime of the super bowl away from winning a championship that like going 10 and 7 and having some dudes for next year like is that supposed to make you feel better

1:33:10Robert Mays: it wouldn't make me feel better it was the hardest team to come up with the right answer for for everything that you're saying what did you say i mean i wouldn't have i think it is like this is

1:33:19Dave Helman: weirdly a roster where the expectations are like you should again i think i'm not going to put winning the Super Bowl on most. I think if you get there, we at least think about this team a little bit differently. But like, even though this is not typically a roster I would describe that to, like, you should probably try to get there.

1:33:35Derrik Klassen: I fully do not expect them to get there. That's what I'm saying. I don't either. I don't either.

1:33:40Robert Mays: We've done 30 other teams at this point. With every other team that we've talked about, the way that we've framed success feels achievable in a very real way. Like, it's within their grasp to get there. with this team. Theoretically, it's true, but what you just outlined as success feels as far off for this team as anything that we have said about anybody else. And I disagree with nothing that you said.

1:34:04Derrik Klassen: Yeah, it's a tough spot to be. And it sucks to be that close that many times. I don't know what else to say. Great.

1:34:15Robert Mays: Let's get to the Arizona Cardinals. Our preview for the 2026 Arizona Cardinals. They're off season in 60 seconds. Hired Michael Fleur as their head coach. Kept Nick Rawls as the defensive coordinator. Signed Isaac Salamalu, Kendrick Bourne, Elijah Wilkinson, Tyler Algier, Andrew Wingard, Roy Lopez, Andrew Billings, and Jack Gibbons in free agency. Lost Alvin Tomlinson, Calais Campbell, Jalen Thompson, and Evan Brown. In the draft, Jeremiah Love in the first round, Chase Besontas in the second round, already on IR, sadly, and Carson Beck in the third round. Derek, what are you most excited about as it relates to the Arizona Cardinals?

1:34:53Dave Helman: I know this was kind of true last year and they still weren't a very good team, but like the offense is really talented. Like they have a lot of dudes. Like you draft Jeremiah Love third overall and we'll see what, you know, when he looks fully healthy this year. But I like he's an exceptional bag, especially as a home run hitter, which I think if there was any issue with this team, like finding just a, can we give this guy the ball and he will make it an explosive play? The fact that they now have that, I think in Jeremiah Love is exciting. Trey McBride, probably the best tight end in football, at least for now until Colson Loveland takes that.

1:35:21Dave Helman: takes the crown. Atta boy. And then Michael Wilson, who they just extended, who is a really good wide receiver. And then, listen, I know Marvin Harrison Jr. is not what we wanted from the fourth overall pick. He's like a solid NFL starting wide receiver and still one that I do think that there's a chance that he can get a little bit better, even if the ceiling's not ever as high as we wanted to be.

1:35:41Derrik Klassen: Do the old draft thing and flip Michael Wilson and Marvin Harrison. Yeah, right. You got one for overall.

1:35:46Robert Mays: You got the other one later. That brings me to mine. I'm very excited about the skill position talent. I am even more excited about the skill position talent filtered through the ideas of this offense. Because if we're going to figure out what that next gear potentially looks like for Marvin Harrison, this offense to me is a way to potentially realize some of that stuff. We've said it a lot over the course of the summer. If you think about the way the Rams play and the way that the Cardinals play, you could not find two offenses that are more different in the ways that they approach some of this stuff.

1:36:16Robert Mays: The Cardinals were in spread formations on 28 % of their snaps last year per next gen. That was the third highest rate in the league. They were condensed 30.5 % of the time. The Rams were in spread looks on 7.3 % of their snaps last year. That was the second lowest rate in the league. The Cardinals were using motion at the snap on 20.6 % of their snaps last season. That was the lowest rate in the NFL. The Rams were at 54.7%, which was the third highest rate in the league. More than double. Two and a half times. The Rams threw 133 passes last year to a receiver who was in motion at the snap. no other team in the league had more than 95.

1:36:53Robert Mays: The Cardinals did it 18 times. That's crazy. And like, there's not, I don't even, it's not even a value thing. This isn't even a good, bad. It is a, it is a stylistic difference.

1:37:06Derrik Klassen: It seems kind of bad considering how good offenses that do that more often look most of the time.

1:37:11Dave Helman: And for them, I think it's the combination of stylistic difference. And also like when you're behind 14 points in every game, Doing all the like motion stuff and like, you know, trying to play that way, I think it's just going to be a little bit harder. You might be a little bit more spread out and we just got to chuck it. And we'll talk about the defense later. But I think even just having the starting point being that the offense wants to feel that way, this is just going to look and feel so much different than it did last year.

1:37:35Robert Mays: And I think for Marvin Harrison Jr. Specifically, this is a change that could unlock a different version of him. Marvin Harrison Jr. Stuck outside the numbers as a static X receiver. And you asking, he's a good route runner. He's not a contested catch player. That is not where he is. That's not where you see the benefits. Having him in some more condensed formations, running more digs, in breakers, just quick hitting stuff over the middle of the field. I think he can be good at that. I think that's what he should do. And I think this offense is going to ask him to do more of that than the previous offense did.

1:38:07Robert Mays: And so I'm with you on a baseline level. I think there's a decent amount of offensive talent here. I think that combined with the fact that we're going to see them use differently is a worthwhile reason to get excited about this team.

1:38:18Derrik Klassen: Harrison has been very complimentary of Michael for and the new coaching staff in general. So it seems like he's excited about the change. What are you most excited about with the 2026 Cardinals? It's going to sound kind of passive aggressive because I'm paraphrasing Vincent Vega from the classic Pulp Fiction. But I got to see what a number three overall running back looks like. If that's what we're going to do, then I want to see Jeremiah Love look really good because, and I understand Monty Austin Ford's logic. We talked about it and maybe not overthinking it when you're in that slot. But there are things that they could have done to set a foundation for themselves beyond try to drop a running back into this situation.

1:39:03Derrik Klassen: And they didn't do it. And I'll give them the credit of saying, because I know like this, this offensive line isn't exciting. But where did they spend their money this year? Isaac Sumalo is at left guard now. $30 million contract. Paris Johnson, Isaac Sumalo and Yalta Froholt. You can have some fun running to the left. Maybe just go left. Don't worry about the right side of the office. They really like Isaiah Adams. They really like Isaiah Adams. So Chase Pazontas is out for the year now anyway. But even before that happened, I talked to people in Phoenix who were like, yeah, Isaiah Adams might hold him off anyway.

1:39:36Robert Mays: That was the plan. Yeah. The plan was for Isaiah. They're really excited about Isaiah Adams. The Besontas thing was going to be Adams and Besontas starting maybe next year as a guard duo of the future where they drafted Besontas not thinking he's going to start right away. They drafted him being like, that's the best player. Like that is the best player available. Salamalo is already on the roster. We can't pass up on this guy. We think he's a first rounder.

1:39:58Derrik Klassen: He was close. I'm choosing to believe this can be fun because they used a number three overall pick on a running back. And I hate to bring it up because it's a bummer, but the last running back to get drafted that highly was Saquon. And we know how that went. And he was transcendent at times in New York. But did that wind up feeling like the best way to use a top three pick? Not really. And I want better than that for Jeremiah Love. I'm choosing to believe this can be fun, but I want it to be fun. I want to be excited about this. And it needs to be to justify a decision like that.

1:40:32Robert Mays: And I think I feel that way about the whole offense and the whole skill position group. Like, I want this to be fun. Michael Wilson making$25 million a year, I think, is a very not surprising at all, by the way. Because when I was looking at that situation before that contract got signed today, and if I'm Michael Wilson and they're offering me something like that, you could have played out the string. Why can't you be Alec Pierce next year? Why can't I be 30? But 25 is still a decent chunk of change. And so I think he's that sort of player where he would have been the prize if he had taken this all the way to free agency.

1:41:02Robert Mays: So I that combined with Harrison, Trey McBride, what you're talking about at running back. I think that there is a lot to like about this group.

1:41:10Dave Helman: And this is a small one, but these are two small ones while we're here. Kendrick Bourne, I do feel better about than any wide receiver three that they had last year. Not a door shed? Yeah, not really small. So I do at least feel a little bit better about that. And then I really wanted Tyler Algier to be a starting running back somewhere. But the fact that that is your other guy who is going to get touches for Jeremiah Love, like I do think that the floor of the run game is significantly higher because I think, you know, there were some structural issues with the offense last year in terms of the run game.

1:41:41Dave Helman: And like the offensive line wasn't as good or healthy as it was last year. But also like a million running backs for them were hurt. Like they didn't have any of their players. And so now the fact that it's Jeremiah Love and Tyler Algier, who I'm pretty confident is a very good running back. Like, okay, man, like the floor for this thing is way higher. And then if Love is healthy, fully healthy by October, and he can really give you some of those home runs, I can see the vision.

1:42:01Derrik Klassen: Kendrick Bourne was undrafted in 2017 and is going on year 10. He's had a great career. Exceptional career. He got paid$10 million to go add to the receiver room in Arizona. Like my favorite type of football player. Well, part of that is Michael Fleur loves Kendrick Bourne.

1:42:16Robert Mays: And Kendrick Bourne loves him. He said it when they signed him. LeFleur was on that staff in San Francisco when Kendrick Bourne got there. And so Michael Floor loves Kendrick Bourne. Two wrinkles that I want to just mention before we kind of close the book on the offense for right now. I think Wilson is a really good fit within this scheme because of what he's willing to do as a blocker. Like him being in that Puka-esque Z role where you're asking him to do a lot of the dirty work, he's willing to do that. That is not a square peg in a round hole. That's going to be a pretty seamless fit. There is a reason I have Michael Wilson on every fantasy team I've drafted over the last month.

1:42:48Robert Mays: The other part, how much 13 do we see? and the trade for Hunter Long, they just traded for Hunter Long. Okay. And I think that is a, we need a third tight end because I think that is actually similar to the conversation we're having about the Rams where if you're in 12th and it's Trey McBride and Elijah Higgins and they're playing nickel, where's your advantage? If you're in 13, I think Elijah Higgins actually becomes a really interesting player. He used to be a wide receiver because he is, I think, a potent pass catching option within the right offense. And the Cardinals have used a ton of 13 personnel over the last couple years.

1:43:24Robert Mays: But I think for this position, this group specifically, that is where I think you feel the impact on Elijah Higgins could make a little bit more than you would as that pass catching option in 12 personnel. And then when Ryman gets back, the group changes. Obviously, because Ryman becomes an extra offense. He is really good. He's just not healthy.

1:43:41Dave Helman: He just hasn't missed most of the last season, unfortunately.

1:43:44Robert Mays: Let's talk about what we're watching the first month of the season with the Arizona Cardinals. Dave, what do you got for me?

1:43:48Derrik Klassen: how feisty is a healthy Cardinals defense and really how feisty are the Cardinals if they're healthy at all I'm stealing this shamelessly from the FTN almanac thank you to those guys who do such a great job the 2025 Cardinals lost the second highest number of adjusted games due to injury in the 25 year history of them charting that statistic that's how banged up they were last year. Froholt was the only member of their offensive line that started all 17 games. Five different DBs went to injured reserve for a significant amount of time. Mack Wilson missed half the season. Walter Nolan tore his meniscus in December after looking really promising in the second half of the year.

1:44:33Derrik Klassen: Will Johnson missed a month or more of the season, the second round cornerback. Who else am I missing there? I mean, their running back room was completely decimated over the course of the year james connor and trey benson both were out if you pull up the chart of like in you know injured out for the week on ir period like it's it's just a wall of red when you look at the cardinals that doesn't even include the fact that the week one starting quarterback missed half the year and we know by now that that wasn't really injury related, but you sit Kyler Murray down in November, just a brutal year in terms of production loss, particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

1:45:15Derrik Klassen: And there are guys here that are worth being excited about. Josh Sweat quietly was worth the contract that they gave him, even though you wouldn't know it. Walter Nolan for that brief flash. I mean, Robert, you drafted him second overall. And I'm going to talk about it in about two seconds in the breakout player draft. maybe we'll finally see a healthy productive Darius Robinson Garrett Williams back healthy I mean there's there's all kinds of intriguing pieces here if they can stay on the field long

1:45:44Robert Mays: enough to show it the fact that Garrett Williams is back and it sounds like he's going to play early in the season coming off that Achilles that's pretty remarkable he's been practicing for a couple weeks now and so he's trending to being available are made out of silly putty now it's it's amazing because that was one of the things I was most worried about is those end of season injuries being like, how long are those going to linger into the year? No one had most of an offseason. He came back really quickly. And then the fact that Garrett Williams is already back, that makes me feel much better.

1:46:09Robert Mays: So I'm with you. I think a healthy version of this defense looks dramatically better. The defense before it got banged up last year was fine.

1:46:17Dave Helman: Yeah, it was. They were like the middle of the pack unit. It was fine. And then you started dropping guys like the other big picture thing I wanted to mention

1:46:25Robert Mays: about the defense that I think is interesting is just the dynamics going on between the defensive coordinator and the head coach they kept nick ralas which i'm always interested in that is right always an eyebrow raising move when the incoming coach keeps a guy and you know what else there's another layer to that he played against him twice a year and so the fact that he had to face this defense twice a year and was willing to keep the defensive coordinator i think says a lot about what they feel about the quality of the defensive coordinator there's a chance that they looked elsewhere and they didn't a better option might not have been there but the fact that they're willing to do this, I think does say something.

1:46:59Derrik Klassen: Do you remember two years ago when Brock Purdy lost to the Vikings and after the game, the Mikes picked him up saying, like, this is an insane defense. Like, what the heck is that? Maybe that's what Mike LaFleur said.

1:47:10Robert Mays: I think that's right. I feel like they're, because, I mean, it is one of the weirder defenses in the NFL. Them and the Vikings are probably one and two. And so them keeping him, I think, is interesting. And for a defensive, this can happen where you're a defensive coordinator. Nick Rollins is only 33. He's been a defensive coordinator for the only three years he's been in Arizona. He's still a very young coach. When you're a defensive coordinator for a defensive minded head coach, it's different than being a defensive coordinator for an offensive minded head coach, because you are not getting the perspective of what it is like for the offense to go against you.

1:47:44Robert Mays: And so I think the feedback that Nick Rollis has gotten from Michael for starting early in the offseason, then all the way through the offseason is different than he ever would have gotten when he was working under Jonathan Gannon. And that's not Jonathan Gannon's fault. It's just the dynamics at play. And what I think is really interesting is that the Rams' mindset all the time offensively is how do we keep this thing as streamlined as we possibly can? Like no superfluous bullshit. What do we need and how can we dress that up 25 different ways? The Cardinals' defense, the volume and breadth of it was extensive.

1:48:22Robert Mays: And I think having an offensive coach who thinks that way of, I'm eliminating everything I don't need. And extending that thought process and mindset to the defense is interesting. And I will be very curious about what sort of impact that potentially has on what this version of the weird-ass Nick Rallis approach actually looks like.

1:48:40Dave Helman: Yeah. And like, they're just one of those defenses too, where like they played more three safety than just about anybody. And the three safety stuff to me often feels like the six offensive line thing where it's like, did you really want to play that way? Or did you just kind of arrive at a spot where this happened to be the best way to get guys on the field?

1:48:58Robert Mays: I think they really want to play that way. Really? Yeah. That feels fake to me. I'm sorry. That's what makes it so fun.

1:49:04Dave Helman: It is like a cool, unique oddity. To me, that feels like one of those things that is like not a lasting way to live in the NFL.

1:49:12Robert Mays: I think it's two things. I think it allows you to disguise in a way that really no other defense in the NFL can because they're not willing to lean into it that way. and I think it is an expression of one specific player in his skill set.

1:49:23Dave Helman: Buda is a pretty special player. Yes. Like the fact that he can kind of just, I feel like teams have dabbled before with like, we'll just have this roving safety and he'll figure it out. And it's like Buda Baker is about the only guy that has like really successfully done that at a high level. You know, obviously Kyle Hamilton and like Derwin James could, but Buda Baker is a pretty special player.

1:49:41Robert Mays: Well, I think it's about one disguise and about being able to get beats on coverages before the snap happens. but it's also, I was talking to, I can't remember which coach I was talking to this about over the course of the summer, but we were talking about too high structures and what they do to run fits. And so having three safeties and not knowing where Buda is going to end up on any given play can f*** with your run stuff. And so I think they believe there are benefits to it in ways that other teams cannot enjoy because of how they're structured and the ways they're willing to play.

1:50:13Dave Helman: And maybe this is a me problem, but like I did study their defense a little bit this offseason. So I was watching Cody Simon, actually, who we can talk about in a little bit. I think that's one of those things that like the offense doesn't know how it's going to fit. I think sometimes the guys know exactly how it's going to fit. And I'm like, if you've got the dudes for it, it works. But I think whether or not Arizona actually does in the back end outside of Buda Baker, I think I'm a little bit less certain. Really quickly on Buda Baker, by the way. Do you realize he's made eight Pro Bowls? like he has like a hall of fame career maybe i don't know if we realized that i didn't until i pulled it up i was like that's that's a lot i know we say this he's probably got room for a

1:50:50Derrik Klassen: couple more we say this about a lot of guys but like criminally just under under noticed because of the fact that arizona just hasn't had a whole lot to get excited about for the vast majority of his career he got there not long after the 2015 team after they were insane yeah he got there not Not long after that, and then they built their way up. But even, like, 2021 was as good as it got, and that was a wild card team. Mm-hmm. Sucks. But, yeah, you're not wrong.

1:51:20Robert Mays: He's been outstanding for forever. What I'm watching the first month of the season is also defense-related. What do we get from the 2025 rookies?

1:51:28Dave Helman: Mm-hmm.

1:51:29Robert Mays: It's simple to me. Because I do think you have... 2026 rookies? 2025. Oh, like this year two guys. Because they only drafted one guy this year who was in the sixth round. He probably is not going to play. So I, because I do think Garrett Williams, Buda Baker, Josh Sweat, Mac Wilson, even a combination of Zayvon Collins, Denzel Burke, and Max Melton in that second outside corner spot. I think there are a lot of capable defensive players on this team who are the difference makers. Who are the needle movers? The guys who I think have the best opportunity to be that are Walter Nolan and Will Johnson.

1:52:01Robert Mays: Absolutely. Do they become those players? That's what I'm watching. Like where, because even if you feel if the defense is healthier, you can reach a certain baseline of quality based on the guys that are there. The thing that's going to allow you to punch through that is having guys that actually change things for you on that side of the ball. And those are the two guys who are going to be able to do it.

1:52:19Derrik Klassen: This has been a theme during all of these previews. I'm always very quick to say, let's give these guys a lot of leeway. If they're coming back from injury, you're not just going to hop in there and make a difference. You remember Walter Nolan debuted against Dallas like midway through last incredible right off the bat as a rookie was just like holy shit all right i guess he doesn't need a ramp up period i and i've been chasing that high ever since and that's the high i want to chase in

1:52:44Dave Helman: the first month of the season and there are those are the two premier rookies from that class but they still have a bunch of like cody simon will start at linebacker again this offseason he there were some up and down moments with him but i think athletically you you at least i saw it like i do think that he looks like a guy who has not that he's ever going to be a star but can be a totally solid will linebacker for you uh jordan birch they drafted in the third round last year had a couple of moments uh last season denzel burke was like shockingly okay when he had to

1:53:10Robert Mays: play for them they really like their cornerback depth on the outside the fact that they feel like they with melton and burke they have two realistic options that's a luxury and burke is dave you would

1:53:18Dave Helman: you would especially know this there's just this thing that happens sometimes with draft prospects denzel burke early in his college career people were like that's going to be a first round pick like he's going to be a guy he's the next one up at ohio state whatever it was going to be just never really panned out that way. Happens all the time. You get to the NFL and it's like, oh, never mind. He does have, you know, maybe not first round talent, but it's like that is an NFL starting caliber player.

1:53:41Derrik Klassen: Especially at programs like Ohio State where the next first round pick is you're just going to get benched. He's coming behind you immediately.

1:53:49Robert Mays: And I think the Darius Robinson is also named to mention. His career has been weird up to this point, but still a young player. Like there are some guys that you could reasonably expect as young pieces to take a step. And it's really Darius Robinson's second NFL season at this point. I mean, you think about the games that he's missed. Let's talk about what's keeping us up at night about the Arizona Cardinals. Derek, what do you got for me?

1:54:10Dave Helman: It's the flip side of a lot of things that we just said. Like I'm just worried that we are going to get through another season with this team where all of the defensive talent still feels like kind of abstract and theoretical. And it's just bits. It's just these flashes. It's these moments of like, ah, you know, he was good at this and then he missed a bunch of time or this part of his game never really came together. And if it all comes together, if all seven dominoes fall, this can be like a top 14 ish style of defense. They can be totally solid. It's just a lot of guys with injury history. It's a lot of young and project D players who you're not sure if they're going to take that next step.

1:54:47Dave Helman: And I think we're baking that in because it's a little bit of, you know, same defensive coordinator guys who have shown flashes. But I'm just worried that they've spent so many resources here to get this thing off the ground. And it's just another year of like, ah, you know, maybe.

1:55:01Derrik Klassen: I'm the same way, but on the other side, specifically. Well, specifically. Weird spot for a team to be in. It's Marv for me. I mean, he was so hyped coming out of college. Like he didn't have a draft process. That's how highly regarded he was and how confident we were in his ability. Amazing college player. And it definitely hasn't been bad. If you go look at the stats, like it's not this catastrophe that I think people make it out to be, but he was a top five pick. And if Mike LaFleur, who bare minimum, like he's he's coming from from that world, he's coached with Shanahan, he's coached with McVay.

1:55:40Derrik Klassen: He's Matt LaFleur's brother. if a well-respected offensive coach like this can't unlock the higher level, and for all the reasons you just mentioned about how they might make it easier on him and get him moving around a little bit more often, if it doesn't look the way it's supposed to this year, then I worry that it's over. And that sucks, because he was such a highly anticipated prospect, and we'll see. Malik Nabors has his own concerns, but that's mainly injury-related.

1:56:10Robert Mays: Yeah, there's no concerns about what Malik Nabors is as a player.

1:56:13Derrik Klassen: When he's healthy, Malik Nabors looks like how we thought he might. And so not getting that after three years with Marvin Harrison would be a tough pill to swallow.

1:56:25Robert Mays: I think I'm just in a place where is it theoretical in the coaching staff too? Like that way you just said about Michael Floor, like what if he isn't a difference maker? Sure. What if like this is the swing you took in the next stage of your franchise and you're not getting the returns you thought you were going to get by dipping into this system and plucking off of that tree. Because everything else is kind of like, there's no specific thing about the team because who cares? If this team wins three games this year, we'll talk about success, there's nothing specific that's keeping me up. It's more about what if this wasn't the right pivot?

1:56:56Robert Mays: What if this isn't the right group? If that's the case and now you're just drawn dead again, that would be the thing that would be keeping me up at night.

1:57:03Dave Helman: Even though I do have faith in it. I have some amount of faith in it. Again, because it is a really talented offense. Like I just keeping you up at night a little bit too. If I had a second one, it would be like, you're not certain that this offense is a quarterback away. That would be kind of freaky. Yeah. That would be freaky. So let's do with success. Yeah.

1:57:18Robert Mays: What is success for the 2026 Arizona Cardinals?

1:57:21Dave Helman: You do feel like you are a quarterback away. Yes.

1:57:24Derrik Klassen: That's a good way to put it. I said, I just, all the young guys we just mentioned, I want love Nolan and Marv to look awesome. And I want to be talking about Mike LaFleur for reasons that have nothing to do with him being Matt LaFleur's brother. Or playing Jeremiah Love too much in the preseason. Or playing Jeremiah Love too much in the preseason. If you come out of this feeling excited about at least a few of the young big-time draft picks and you're like, yeah, Mike LaFleur is a guy, that's enough for me.

1:57:56Robert Mays: Proof of concept on offense. The foursome you have on that side of the ball is truly formidable. Looks the scariest it has since you drafted Marvin Harrison Jr. your young picks on defense a couple of them turn into needle moving players and we cannot wait to see who plays quarterback for this team next year that's a lot but it's going to be a lot when you

1:58:15Dave Helman: don't have a clear like wins goal you know what i mean like it's got to be like maybe it's only

1:58:20Robert Mays: three of those need to happen but that to me is the best case scenario those are what you're

1:58:24Derrik Klassen: shooting for cardinal season can look like another way to say the same thing let's spend the spring being excited about which quarterback goes there instead of the litany of think pieces about whether we should abolish the draft rather than subject a quarterback to Arizona because that'll happen if

1:58:44Robert Mays: this looks like shit their schedule is brutal right like they could win very few games and still have a successful season the wins and losses are immaterial to me if all of those things happen they can win three games I wouldn't give a shit because that's possible there is a chance that they are just like the 18th best offense, the 20th best defense, and they win four games because their schedule is brutal.

1:59:04Derrik Klassen: I mean, I know it didn't. I know how it wound up aging, obviously, but Jonathan Gannon's first season was exactly that. They went four and 13. It was like, I don't care if you're paying attention. This isn't bad. And so it's definitely doable. All right.

1:59:20Robert Mays: That is all we've got. 32 team previews in the books. NFC West is all done. Sincerely appreciate all of you for tuning in and being a part of this. It is a, it's a fun two weeks. I really enjoy doing this. It's one of my favorite things that we do on the show. So thank you to everyone for tuning in and sticking around with us. That is all we've got. We will be back on Monday with the wind's pool draft that we recorded at the live show this week, dropping in your audio feeds. I cannot wait to be embarrassed and terrified the entire season. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon.

1:59:59Robert Mays: Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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