A surprising Steelers offense leads the Week 7 Hangover

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2:07Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. It's the Week 7 Hangover with me and Derek Klassen. We got St. Steelers, Rams Raiders, and Broncos Cardinals. Three games. Let's dig into it right now.

2:31Robert Mays: it's the week seven hangover three games we're hitting today steelers saints rams raiders and broncos cardinals derrick let's start this show with where the day started yesterday that is with the game that took place in paris steelers knock off the saints 16 to 10 your biggest lasting takeaway from this game was what? I mean, I just continue to be extremely impressed by what the Steelers offense looks like. Like, I just didn't think that this would necessarily be an above average unit, but I think they have like a pretty good mix of the offensive line has obviously gelled into something that this is what we hoped it would be.

3:07There are so many plays in this game where Zach Frazier's climbing to the second level at a really impressive way. Mason McCormick is just clearing somebody out of the way. I think Maxie Inachor, there's some ups and downs because he's a rookie but like I think mostly you don't feel like there's a bad rookie tackle out there I think that that's been nice Fauton who loses a couple of reps to an awesome Chase Young but like other than that is a really good player so you have all of that you have a quarterback who is we've talked about this playing in a way that we didn't think that he would play anymore and I think the biggest way the biggest realm that you see it is when Rodgers at his at his worst doesn't want to make certain throws.

3:44It's often over the middle. He has the seventh most throws 11 to 20 yards between the hashes this year. That's just, that was the biggest complaint we had last year. And this year he's doing some of that. And then just on top of like, these skill players are good enough, man. Like DK makes some plays. Jeremy Bernard is a nice piece. Jalen Warren, he does so many things for them, but the, the catch that he makes when they try to, they're backed up in their own end zone and Rogers like pops a ball right over the defensive end. And Jalen Warren has to go stab this ball with one hand and brings it down.

4:15And I'm just like, when your back can just make catches like that look so easy, you can get eight, nine yards when you're not supposed to. And it just, you can feel that this offense can really move the ball.

4:26Robert Mays: Yeah, I, there, some of the checkdowns were really productive plays for them in this game. Like Caden Ellis either couldn't get to Warren in the flat or got caught up in traffic a couple different times or missed tackles. And so even the checkdowns were turning into productive plays, which last year, I think with the connotation around how they were checking the ball down and all the balls going to the backs was probably a negative one. This year, I think there's been a lot of positive plays there. Even Rico Dottle seemed like he had some juice in this game. Like when he was touching the ball, the fact that Warren has been so explosive this year, I think that the worst case scenario is Dottle gets back.

5:00Robert Mays: His touches are just kind of DOA compared to what you're getting from Warren. And while he's not been as dynamic as Jalen Warren, obviously, when he touches the ball I'm not actively upset it's not Jalen Warren and I think there's a world where that would have happened yeah I was a little bit scared of that too and I thought yeah Dowdle looked great in this game and I think like they do complement each other well like Jalen Warren is good between the tackles but I do think that there's a little bit more like Rico Dowdle is full head of steam I'm gonna kill this linebacker sort of runner and I think that that helps them because obviously everything Warren gives you in the passing game outside the numbers on some of their stretch runs is really dynamic and you saw that in this game I mean there was I think a third and short that he bounced like 10 yards inside the two minute and he's able to go make like a really nice play like he just the blend that they have now at running back I think is really impressive and then you're just feeling the passing game I think because that burden is taken off of them with how good the run game has been you can feel the passing game doing enough to make this like a pretty viable offense even yesterday I don't think it's the best example of what you're talking about because there weren't that many of those throws.

6:05Robert Mays: Really, the only ones we're talking about in like kind of the short to intermediate area in the middle of the field, he flips the ball to Friermuth against the Blitz for a productive gain in the second half. That was one of them. And then the Jeremy Bernard slip screen on third and 10 in the fourth quarter, that's a beautiful call. I mean, that's a perfect call in that moment. So it was kind of just responding to the Blitz or design throws. But for the most part, I agree with you. Like he's willing to access that stuff in a way that he wasn't last year. To me in this game, the stuff that we're seeing from him or we saw from him that wasn't that prominent a year ago is the extension of the plays.

6:40Robert Mays: Like he extends the play, slides up and left in the pocket to find DK Metcalf for that 51-yarder down the field. And then he had another one later in the game where he just finds a little bit of space and makes a play off schedule deep into the down that he just wasn't really doing a lot of last year. And so I think there have been games where it's a little bit more apparent that he's willing to kind of play the plays in the ways that we've wanted him to. But even in this one, I think you saw the ways that Rodgers is contributing to what the offense feels like. There are positives that we've been wanting to see for the last couple of years.

7:15A hundred percent agree. I mean, he had like a big scramble late in this game where he converts like a pretty big critical down for them. He's moving. He's moving. And so like that play was really good. the uh the fryer with conversion that you mentioned that will that play was so good because that was their blitz responses the last couple of weeks have been really good obviously i thought they did a really good job of that against the bucks as well who have been one of the better pressure teams um and then obviously what they did against the saints today like that i thought that was a really good play the dk metcalf play where you mentioned where he scrambles out a little bit to his left that's a fantastic throw that's also an exception it's also exceptional job tracking that by DK Metcalf.

7:53Like finding that over his shoulder like an outfielder like that play was amazing. And so because last year, I think the issue with the offense was if those DK Metcalf plays weren't connecting, what did they have? The run game wasn't quite as good and the other underneath stuff just wasn't quite as good either. But now that we have a Jeremy Bernard who that was the whole vision, if we can spit the ball out to him four times a game, can he get us two first downs? And he's been really, really good at that. And so So I just, it's not the sexiest offense in the world, but this is a legitimately good offense that can beat a lot of teams.

8:27Robert Mays: Yeah, I'll be curious to see what it looks like over the course of the year. There are still stretches where it's a little bit frustrating, but not even close to what we've been talking about over the last couple seasons, just in terms of the types of throws he's willing to make and trying to make consistently. We did not mention, I mean, one of my favorite plays of the day, after that DK Metcalf 51-yard completion, them throwing the fade to Darnell Washington for the touchdown It's just an incredible, but it's again, my wife is watching these, these Europe games with us. Cause just in the morning when we're getting ready and drinking coffee on the couch, she was enamored with Darnell Washington, just like watching what he is.

9:02Robert Mays: And she's like, she's like, he's huge. And I was like, yeah, he absolutely is huge. He's, he's the only guy like that, man. It's he is. So I love that they have that too, because they really do have like answers in the red zone. Now, the fact that they can get inside the five and they can be such an effective run the ball team, you can spit it out to Jeremy Bernard. And then, oh, you also have the only 300 pounder who's going to consistently catch the football. There's such a bizarre team, but I'm starting to enjoy it. I really am. I think the Bernard part unlocks it, though, because last year it's a very similar group of pass catchers to what it looked like last year.

9:35Robert Mays: But they didn't have somebody who was as useful as this. Just all the different things that you can do with him. He's just a good, he is a player with utility. Like that's what he is. And that was the entire promise of him coming out. And it's so fun to watch a guy as a prospect and just have an idea of what you think he might be. And then he comes into the NFL and he's exactly that type of player. And that's how I feel with Jeremy Bernard. He's exactly what we thought he might be in the NFL. And that is just a useful, good at everything, not great at anything. you are going to be a productive part of the offense and contribute to what we are in a positive way for the next 10 years like that's exactly what Jeremy Bernard I think the promise of him was and I think that's exactly what we've seen from him so far he is the most like 83 overall in Madden type of player and that's exactly what they needed on this offense uh he also in this game too blocking his ass off on a number of those plays like he really is somebody who gets after it too.

10:33And so there are just a lot of parts where I'm just impressed the way that this is put together, given that they've got some good players and obviously the offensive line is great, but there really isn't that many like overwhelming talents on the offense. And so the fact that they are consistently putting it well together, the offensive line's kicking ass, they just keep putting together drives and games that are really impressive to me.

10:55Robert Mays: We talked about this a little bit last night, but I think the natural follow-up question and an understandable one, considering how we've talked about the Steelers for the last couple years is to what end, right? So what do you think that is? Like, what do you think the endpoint is or the ceiling is or the outlook is for a team that feels like the current Steelers do? I mean, I still feel like there is a ceiling and cap to the offense as far as it as far as relating to like potential championship caliber. But I mentioned this a little bit, I think, on the Sunday show for the last handful of times that really since like the this the even the end of the Roethlisberger era every time they made the playoffs it was just like well they're kind of wild card fodder maybe they'll they'll like stumble into winning the game but this is not going to be like a serious game by the time they get to the divisional to the divisional round if they do I don't feel that way about this team like I think that there are plenty of matchups where they could go into that wild card game it will not be like a huge spread and they could absolutely win that game because both sides of the ball, I think have enough to them.

11:58And like they're a team that like in the right matchup, like maybe they can win a divisional game if they catch a team on the right day. And the defense is really playing at a high level. And Rogers decides he wants to continue making these throws over the middle of the field. And the offensive line is kicking people's ass. Like there is a, because they can run the ball so well and the defense can play at a certain level, there's a certain amount of they can control the game and play it on their terms. And if you can do that well enough, like I do believe that you can win a playoff game or two what do you make of the other side of the ball in this game i so they were they were really funny in that i felt like they were throwing a million simulated pressures and then like not actually pressuring for a large part of this game they eventually turned to it they get the huge patrick queen sack at the end which was a really good call where they got the protection to slide to the right queen gets a one-on-one against the right guards and just beats him.

12:52I thought that was really impressive. But for the most part, it was a lot of trying to make Tyler Shuck feel hot and then having enough bodies and coverage to dissuade him from throwing down the field. And in a lot of ways, they did do that. Like Tyler Shuck was fairly efficient in the one to 10 yard area, beating some of the simulated pressures, throwing underneath, particularly targeting the flats. Like I thought Jalen Ramsey and Patrick Queen were slow to the flats a lot of the time, but they really were not giving up that many explosives. And then eventually if you know that Tyler Shuck is just going to keep throwing these flat routes keep throwing these flat routes you get the situation in the red zone where Peyton Wilson is dropping off the line of scrimmage and he's like I know that he's going to throw this drives on it picks it off and so it was one of those games where it felt like they were giving up this thing all the time but I think it was kind of on purpose and I think that they mostly executed their game plan pretty well.

13:41Robert Mays: Jeremiah Wright was actually playing right guard for the Saints which is part of the problem is that you have a backup right guard in there along with a backup left tackle and that It was it was a that was a very frustrating sequence because you that's they're down 1610 in the fourth quarter. The first two passes on the drive guys are open. He's going to the right place with the ball quickly. Two of those passes get batted down in a row. And then on third down, you have the pressure picked up. You have enough guys to block this up. And the backup right guard loses to Patrick Queen right as Tyler Shuck is trying to take a shot down the field.

14:16Robert Mays: He takes a sack. They have to punt it away. The game is over. and it was indicative of what was overall a frustrating game to me for the New Orleans Saints offense. You cannot operate in the NFL in 2026 if you carry the ball 17 times for 18 yards. It's impossible. It's a non-starter. And it's not like, I think the only way that you can somehow maybe sort of get away with making that work is if your passing game is really explosive and really trying to take the top off. like the Packers, for example, their run game isn't very good, but they're what they're trying to accomplish in the passing game is we're going to get 20 yard chunks, 25.

14:56We're going to hit a 60 yard bomb. The Saints, you know, they hit the I think it was the deep the deep post route when they did try to like block up one seven man protection play. Other than that, we're just not particularly explosive in this game. And they're not an offense that does a lot of targeting the tough windows over the middle of the field. And I think they're a little bit up and down in how willing they are to push the ball down the field, because when they get heated up, they don't want to do that. And so I think that they've run into an issue where you can't run the ball, so you're not efficient there.

15:23So we feel like we have to be efficient in the passing game, but it's just really, really hard to live that way with a quarterback who's only in his second season, an offensive line that's not, and an offensive line that's just not pass protecting all that well right now.

15:36Robert Mays: What do you make of the middle of the field stuff? Because he was not afraid to make those throws last year. I think some of that is because of what we're talking about with the pressure stuff. And I think that he had moments last year where he was willing to stare down the barrel of the gun, but I feel like it's a couple of things. I think with him, he's kind of willing to make those throws, but I think that there is some amount of when the games start to unravel for him the way that they often have this season, I think that you feel him turtle up a little bit. This was an issue, I think, like with early Jared Goff, where when games would start to get away from him a little bit, you would just kind of feel him turtle into himself and not really make all the aggressive throws that you wanted.

16:12And so I think that there's a little bit of that. I also do just think that because of what we're talking about with them not being able to move the ball in the run game, I think that the passing game has become so much like, can we just get five yards? Can we just get five yards? And I think that it's a little bit by design because they just, they don't have many other options right now as an offense. Yeah.

16:31Robert Mays: When you're using 9.5 % play action, not always easy to access the middle of the field when you're doing that. That's not a fake number, by the way, that was their play action rate in the game yesterday that's so bad you can't you again you cannot live in the nfl doing that it's really you can't and that that's the frustrating part of this and listen i i've i'm now having to live with the stark reality of having the saints in the wins pool and when i was trying to build an optimistic case for and but listen the optimistic case for the saints what coming into the season for me was could they be a nine or ten win winner of the nfc south it did not go beyond that as i'm trying to build that case.

17:10Robert Mays: Part of it was the passing game really showing some flashes last year. I like some of the design of it. When I made that choice, Jordan Tyson, I don't think was out for a huge majority of time. And I was like, all right, I can see this taking a step forward because I really like, or even taking a modest step forward as a passing game. I like what we saw from the rookie quarterback. Olave is a star. You get one more pass catcher in there. And overall, I liked how they approached that. But the entire bit of optimism about the offense was, okay, we could not run the ball last year from an efficiency standpoint and because we weren't able to consistently do it we didn't even try to do it and so you're putting so much on the quarterback in the passing game I expected after signing David Edwards in free agency this year and after signing Travis HN all right the running game would at least be competent we would get it to a place where it'd be something we could lean on and I know that HN has been hurt but and I know they have two backup offensive linemen in there, but when you watch the run game, it's completely DOA.

18:10Robert Mays: Like it has absolutely no shot. There are a couple of plays in that game. The first run of the second half, they're having Eric McCoy try to block the three technique to the left side. Why? Like, like what, in what universe is he going to be able to make that block? And then they're asking the backup right guard to block the shade to his side with absolutely no help whatsoever. So what they're asking the linemen to do, independent of the quality of those linemen, doesn't make a ton of sense to me. There's a play in the late in the second half, I think it was in the fourth quarter, where it's a second and five.

18:46Robert Mays: Peyton Wilson blitzes. No one touches him. It's a five yard loss with him just running through the A gap. And so I know that the guys that they thought would be out there that would make up the running game, they have not had that full stable of players right now. But when you watch what it looks like, I think it's an indication that a lot of the issues they're having there are not based on the talent that needed to be improved. I think this is a structural concern. I think it is as well. And this, I think, has been the case for Kellen Moore offenses at times in many of his other stops, like the 2023 Chargers.

19:18I mean, their offensive line wasn't great there either, but they were one of the worst run games in the NFL that season. And it became a lot of like Justin Herbert, can you throw 40 times to bail us out? And that works a little bit better when Justin Herbert is the quarterback. It doesn't works so well when Tyler Shuck, who I think is a fine and competent quarterback, by the way, but this is just not a situation set up for him to thrive, I think. They are, the Saints, are 30th in rushing offense DVOA. The only team's worst are the Raiders, who their offensive line continues to be a mess. And like Ashton Gentile is just not healthy.

19:49And then the Green Bay Packers, who are on like multiple different offensive linemen that they wanted either. And like, I think to your point about the talent upgrades, they signed David Edwards this offseason. He was obviously fantastic with the Bills, a really good player. I just think he's looked as good as you want him to. And that to me is like when you're just dropping a guy who I don't think athletically looks any worse than he did last year, but just isn't playing to the same level. That to me speaks to like, OK, something else is going on here that is not just about the players that are there.

20:20Robert Mays: It's an ecosystem concern. I mean, it's a very clear example of one. And it's so hard to play offense this way. Like what you were asking of the quarterback, you are now putting him in a position where the burden that he's asked to carry is in line with what teams usually ask the best dropback quarterbacks in the league to carry season after season. You can do a little bit of this with Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow. Like if that's how you want them to play, I think you can survive on offense. even if Tyler Shuck, I think, has had some really nice moments. And even in this game, I thought, did a very good job doing what was asked of him.

20:58Robert Mays: There's still going to be such a limit on what your offense can be when this is the burden you're asking the quarterback to carry, and he's not one of the best four quarterbacks in the world. Yeah, when he's not one of those guys that can just either has the breadth of knowledge for having done this for it's his seventh season in the NFL or whatever, or is not just one of those freak athletes like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, where he can just bail himself out of plays. and and the thing is like I do think Shuck sees it well and I do think he's a good athlete he's just not to that a plus level of those guys um at least yet mentally you're just not going to be able to put together consistent offense playing that well and it really is it does make it difficult and annoying to watch because I still think that like when I watch him I see a lot of stuff where I'm like one day he can be the ninth or tenth best quarterback in the NFL in the right environment with a little bit more development like I still see that there it's just that what the environment is now, you're just not going to get the best stuff out of him with how this is going.

21:51Robert Mays: Every conversation in the offseason where you could kind of talk yourself into this team, it's like, OK, if the run game gets better from what we saw with the passing game last year, can they be the 16th best offense in the league? Oh, well, this was a really good defense over the back at back half of last year. Statistically, they really stopped the run extremely well. You know, they were a team that I think if they could do that again, they have pressure players to kind of live in that world. And the defense is just completely unraveled. Like I understand if you're Gail Benson coming out and saying the stuff you did last week because of what you thought your team might look like this year based on how last season ended and what they do look like.

22:29Robert Mays: It is because we have teams like the Rams, like the Chargers, that are the Texans, that are real disappointments because they were title contenders. I don't think we really talked about the Saints that way. And they're not nearly as disappointing as those teams, but they are disappointing. Like what we've gotten from this version of the Saints in year two, when you might've expected them to take a step, they have taken none of those steps and it is pretty disheartening. It is. Do you know who's, so the Saints right now in overall team DVOA are 27th. Do you want to know who's right behind them?

23:01The Miami Dolphins. It's brutal. Like it's when you are in line with the Miami Dolphins, who the whole point of their season was they are hamstrung with their cap. They are really just trying to get by with a bunch of draft picks, seeing what they can get for next year. It's very different than what we thought with the Saints, where you're right. Like, I think coming into the season two, there was an optimistic case that they could win this division. And they look to me pretty clearly like the worst team in a division that is kind of weird and doesn't necessarily have like a dominant front runner.

23:30Yeah.

23:31Robert Mays: And that's it. It wasn't a can this be like a team that wins a playoff game? It's can this team be 18th and overall team DVOA and that has not happened and I think you really it's it's so soon to be having like hard conversations about what the future looks like but I think your point about the Kellen Moore offenses and what we had seen from the Kellen Moore offenses that your worst fears are being realized here they won a Super Bowl in Philadelphia when they have Jeff Stoutland as the run game coordinator and Saquon Barkley yeah but in in situations where we have not seen that the The run game has had real issues.

24:05Robert Mays: And so how you bridge the gap and how you tie everything together when that has been a consistent problem over multiple years, over multiple stops, that would be something that I'm concerned about. Yeah, and that'll be, you know, I'm sure one of the bigger offseason talks that we have about them, but it is pretty concerning that it's looked this way so far. All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and shout out Little Rams Raiders. The NBA season is here. When you turn on the games, turn on The Athletic Live on YouTube. Become part of the show in the interactive chat along with hosts Zach Harper, Kofi Oboa, and the Athletic Slam Dunk NBA staff.

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28:38Robert Mays: The Los Angeles Rams take care of business against the Raiders 35-21, big-time bounce-back game for the Rams. Your biggest takeaway from Rams Raiders was what? So we can talk about how real this get right game was given. I think that the Raiders defense specifically is probably worse than we thought over the first three weeks of the season. However, this to me felt very much like a Sean McVay, Matthew Stafford. We're going back to basic sort of game. It was so much just like inside run duo and they did it pretty well. It was so much. Yes, exactly. That's what you need to be. Just do the shit that works do the stuff that we know can take you uh deep into the playoffs they were doing that and I should have counted I swear they threw eight boot to flat concepts to Puka Nakua like the eight different ways that they were just trying to spit him out the ball uh doing that I thought was pretty impressive the way that they were using the tight ends I thought in the red zone was really impressive so this to me felt like okay we don't have Devontae Adams what are we going to do we're going to go back to our day one insult stuff and we're just going to make it work and dress it up as well as we can and it worked really well like I thought that this was a game where it felt like there was no pressure on Matthew Stafford to really do anything extraordinary like I thought he played a fine game but I don't think they asked a whole lot of him because I just thought that Sean McVay was kind of pulling a lot of the right levers on that side of the ball.

30:00Robert Mays: We talked so much after that game against the Cardinals about how this team was struggling to dictate the way its games were being played in the way that it could last year. And I think so much of that is just what the approach looks like on offense and what the approach feels like on offense. They were under center on 69 % of their snaps in this game per next gen. They ran the ball 56 % of the time. Matthew Stafford finished with a 53 % play action rate. And that was the offense. And that's what the founder, it doesn't have to be this extreme all the time, and it can't be this extreme all the time when you don't have a 60 % rushing success rate like they did.

30:36Robert Mays: But I think this has to be the foundation of the approach as often as you can make it that. Because when this team is running the ball with the efficiency it was running the ball and their ability and they can just lean on easy completions off play action. And if necessary, can the quarterback make two or three big time throws, which he didn't even really need to make in this game. But if necessary, can he do it? I think that has to be what they try to be on offense. whether the ceiling of that is high enough, considering the current state of the pass catching options, that's a different consideration.

31:07Robert Mays: But as a starting point, the offense looking and feeling the way that it did on Sunday, I think has to be the first step to them getting back on track. All the stuff that they did in this game gets them back to being a good offense, which to your point, I don't know if they can get back to being a great offense if Devante is going to miss as much time as he is in all those considerations. But I think this at least gets them back to being good and making sure that they can play the game a little bit on their own terms. And I really was just impressed with the different ways that they were dressing stuff up.

31:36Like I mentioned the stuff to Nakua and they're having him, you know, motion across the field and just having him sprint straight to the flat to get there. They're having times where he's shuffle motioning in, he's inserting, and then he's getting to the flat. There was one where they like, kind of like bent him back behind the line of scrimmage for like a deep like swing off of this stuff. Like just so many different ways to give him space and access into the flat that I thought was really impressive. And that hasn't that always been the hallmark of the Sean McVay offense is that it's the same four plays.

32:05He's just dressing it up so many different ways that you are struggling to attack it. And it makes it almost makes the defense look stupid. You're like, how do you not cover the flat route for the eighth time? And it's like, well, because he's dressing it up in a way that you don't think that that's what you're getting. And this this to me felt like a classic game in that way from him.

32:23Robert Mays: I mean, just when you're having to worry about getting gapped out in the run game, even when it's an 11 personnel, because he's going to be inserting on some of that stuff. Like if you're the person responsible for covering the flat, you're in conflict consistently because they're running the ball 60 % of the time. Like it's the, at the core of it, that's why they're so hard to play against is for all the reasons that you're saying. Just before we get into some of the other like big picture stuff, the Puka touchdown is such a sneaky, nasty play by him. Like he comes back to the ball so hard on that play that the way that he attacks it is what allows him to create after the catch because he's making the actual catch so far away from where the two defenders in that area thought he was going to make it.

33:08It's really, I feel like a lot of the best receivers right now are really good at that. About like coming back, yeah, because I think it was Quay Walker, like really like drives and tries to get over the top of it. He's like, surely he's going to be, yeah, exactly like where he was, but he just comes back to the ball like two yards and immediately flips it inside. And it's just like, you just don't think the guy is going to be able to do that. And so I still worry a little bit about can Pukunokua be the downfield threat that he was last year? Because I mean, that was such like what really accelerated him into being almost offensive player of the year caliber was he really became an awesome downfield player.

33:44This year, I don't feel like we've seen as much of that. But if he can be classic 24 Pukunokua where everything under 10 yards is absolutely insane, they can get back to a good spot.

33:55Robert Mays: my concern is that he's just not healthy. I agree, exactly. Yeah, I just don't think he's 100%. And so I think that puts a cap on the ways that he can affect a game. When I watch the receiving court, two takeaways from just watching the pass catching group overall. Let's call it three. One, I don't think he's healthy, even if you're still able to throw him the ball 12 times a game. It's hilarious that the guys like every week, it's like, oh, Puka missed Friday's practice with so-and-so ailment. And then you look at the stat line after the game is over. It's like he had 11 catches on 17 targets.

34:28Robert Mays: And then the two other ones were one. I actually think Kanata Mumfield's got something to him. He's I think I still want to see more, but I do. I am glad that at least putting him on the field has not been like a total waste. And I was worried about that with this receiver core. To be clear, the third point was going to be they need someone else. OK, there we go. Like they need someone else. He can do some stuff. And I mean, his first big catch in this game, he is lined up isolated as an X receiver. He gets great. It's a great release off the line of scrimmage. He puts a little shake at the top of the route against Hezekiah Masses and catches like a 15 yard completion on third down.

35:12Robert Mays: I mean, that was a really nice. It might not have been third down, actually, but it's a it's a defined drop back situation where he's isolated as the X receiver and makes the play. Like he's Devante Adams on that play and does a decent job. But overall, I think part of the reason what you said about Puka, the fact that they don't really have a downfield option. That's why I think they need to go get somebody else. Like if they have somebody that can create some space within the offense, I think that would be worthwhile. I don't think that the Jags would trade him at this point. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not sure if the Jags would trade Brian Thomas Jr.

35:43Robert Mays: At this point, but that's the type of player I would be like, all right, screw it. Like, can we throw a pick at them and get some verticality to the offensive? What would that do for us? Like, that might be a worthwhile consideration for a team like this. I think so. Like, they, because I just don't think the offense is going to be able to function if they can't open it up. And it's not even just to access some of the explosive stuff down the field. It's so that we can find more of those dig windows, more of those crossers windows for guys underneath, like, you know, whoever the tight ends are going to be, Pukunakua, obviously guys like that.

36:13And I think it's especially important for them because kind of by design, the run game is just not explosive. Like they are. It's a run game that is trying to beat you up six yards at a time. And there are games where they can do that. It's been a little bit more up and down this year slightly. But this is a game where you saw like, yes, they can absolutely crush you in that way. And so I think if you're not going to even aim to be a super explosive rushing team, you need to be able to find it elsewhere. And I think the other consideration would be that, like, I still think Matthew Stafford is a good quarterback.

36:42and he can make those two or three throws a game. Last year, it could be like six or seven throws a game where he was truly just like on freaking fire. I don't feel like he is necessarily playing at that level right now. So you really do need a little bit more help from some of the other talent, help from the scheme and things like that.

37:00Robert Mays: Yeah, that's part of the unfortunate truth, I think, is that they caught lightning in a bottle with the way that he played last year. And he's been good for multiple years in a row. Like Matthew Stafford has been a good quarterback and a very good quarterback for the Rams. Pretty much every year he's been there outside of whatever the disaster season looked like in 2022. But he was obviously playing at a special, special level last season. And I just don't think that's going to happen again. And so it just reframes what the realistic expectations for this team are, even if they do turn it around to an extent.

37:34Robert Mays: but I think it, we probably have to have like an honest conversation about what they can accomplish overall with the current state of the receiving core. And with what we have seen from Matthew Stafford so far this year, they go from being like the super bowl favorite to a team. Like, can they come back and claw their way into making the playoffs? And like, I still think that like, if they go and get somebody at receiver or Pukunokua, just he can get healthy at some point. Like, I still think that the offense can be good enough for them to make a Super Bowl run. It's just that now I think it has to reframe to be like, they're probably going to have to play some more lower scoring games.

38:08And the defense is really going to have to kick into a gear that I think we thought was possible. But if they don't reach that second or third best defense in the league caliber, especially once Miles Garrett comes back, then it's probably not good enough.

38:21Robert Mays: That's a good point. They're just going to have to win games a little bit differently than they have over the last couple of years if they want to realize even similar type of ceiling. Before we move on to that side of the ball, I just very quickly, when you watch the Raiders defense right now and you watch them in a game like this, I think you're just kind of reminded of where the personnel deficiencies on the Raiders defense still exist. Tonka Hemingway was coming off of a he had a concussion last week. He only played 20 snaps in this game. And there are so many plays where the Rams are in like 11 personnel or 12 personnel.

38:54Robert Mays: The Raiders are a nickel with Quay Walker walked out onto the line of scrimmage, which I can understand, like you want to be in some five down fronts against a team like this. And those interior three guys, including Quiddy Pay as a five technique against 330 pound Kevin Dotson are just getting moved off the ball. And that was probably my biggest concern about the Raiders defense overall coming into the year. And I think yesterday they went up against a team that is perfectly designed to take advantage of it and did throughout the entire game. I mean that's a great point one of one of my biggest notes from this game was the Rams are resetting the line of scrimmage every single run like they are getting it felt like an automatic three-yard gain at minimum every time that they were running the ball because I just thought that they were resetting it so well and you have a splash play every now and then where Max Crosby just nice into the backfield but like otherwise like you said they were really moving these guys at will and like some of these defend these defensive linemen have had decent moments against lesser offensive lines this season.

39:58I think that, like you said, with Tonka Hemingway, maybe not being 100 % himself in this game, I just, you kind of felt them falling away in some of the ways that you would be worried about.

40:09Robert Mays: We just have so many examples over the last several years that you need true difference-making, glass-eating players up front. Depending on the style of defense that you play, right? I mean, we talked a lot about the Falcons this year where I think that if you play like a down downhill attacking style, you can somehow you can sometimes get a little bit more than the talent level would lead you to believe. If you're going to play the way that the Raiders want to play, we're in you're in a lot of these even fronts and you're asking guys to kind of eat up space. Like you need difference making type players to be a good defense if you're going to play that way.

40:46Robert Mays: And they just don't have those guys. Like they when you looked at the roster coming into the year, we knew they weren't going to have those guys. And so I just think we're at a place now where some of the stuff we thought might be true about the Raiders has kind of come into focus as they're playing against offenses like this. Yeah, it's a lot of guys who can be useful role players. And again, there are still games where they are. It's just that they are not force multipliers for the most part outside of obviously what Max Crosby can do. And even in this game, I would say Sean McVay and the Rams did a really good job of just keeping him at bay with a lot of runs at him, I think, to tire him out.

41:21And then in the passing game, I thought that they were just consistently chipping, sliding, all that stuff, really trying to take him out of the game.

41:27Robert Mays: The biggest personnel deficiency to me on defense was the interior of the defensive line. The biggest personnel deficiency for the Raiders to me on offense was what they had at receiver. And you felt that in this game, too. I mean, the Rams were just throwing. It was two different things in this game for the Rams. I believe they had six or seven DBs in the field, six or seven, on 70 % of their snaps in this game. it was it was so the raw number is 46 snaps of at least six defensive backs and I'm glad you say seven because I looked this up because it just felt like it was crazy in the moment they had 19 snaps in this game with seven dbs on the field which is more is which is 15 more than in any other game by any other team this season it was a completely unique game which is funny because I came into this game being like, what are the Raiders going to do against Dime, which is six DBs.

42:22And the Rams were like, we're going to up the ante and we're going to put seven on the field and dare you to throw against that.

42:27Robert Mays: I have a couple of layers to that that I find interesting that I'm curious about your take on. One, the biggest thing that says to me is we have less than zero respect for your ability to run the ball. Correct. Less than zero. And understandably so it was kind of jarring. I mean, so it was like 616 left in the first quarter and the Raiders come out in 12 personnel. It's their version of 12 personnel, but still 12 personnel. And the Rams are in dime defense on first and 10. I'm like, my God, what a disrespectful approach to the game. This is. And the Raiders finished with a 26.7 % rushing success rate per next gen.

43:04Robert Mays: So the disrespect was warranted. So that's the first layer of it. The second layer of it is it felt like if we put all these DB bodies in the field and we play a lot of man, we can put any of these guys on Brock Bowers and trust that they can probably cover him because we have a corner or a corner esque body on him on pretty much every single snap. And we don't, we aren't afraid of any of your other pass catchers taking advantage of whatever other matchups that leaves. and I think that those two kind of facets to it make sense as to why the Rams approached it this way and they got every single benefit of attacking the game in the way that they did a hundred percent like they I thought what their their game plan for Bowers was like you said we're going to play a bunch of man coverage and they were playing a lot of like rat and robber coverage and whoever the rat or robber was was I'm looking for rock Bowers on the over like they were not going to let him get those 12 to 15 yard in breakers, the deep over routes.

44:04And so when you're doing that, whoever is playing him one-on-one man coverage, well, they know they can just play hard outside leverage and just not give him anything. And I just thought that there were a number of plays where they did really well at that. Like, honestly, I think the first third down of the game, Rams have seven DBs out there and they're like robbing him with, I think it was Cam Kitches was the middle of the field player. He almost steals an interception a little bit later in the game. There's about nine minutes left in the second quarter. They're robbing over the middle of the field again.

44:34And Brock Bowers, OK, the Raiders have figured this out. So we're going to run Bowers on a deep corner route. Well, because the Rams DB knows that he has inside help, he's like, I'm just going to stay under this corner route and I'm never going to give it to you. He's not open. Kirk can't make the throw. So I thought their game plan in that sense was impressive. And then you mentioned it. Who the hell else was going to beat them? Like, I think Trey Tucker is a good and useful NFL player. Trey Tucker is not a good or useful X receiver. And that's what they had.

45:02Robert Mays: He's a specific type of NFL player. Exactly. And he can be really good in that role. When you ask him to be the X receiver and run a dig against Jalen Watson, it just ain't going to work the way that you want it to work. And you saw that a number of times in this game. I mean, they're trying to throw like third down crossing routes to Cody White. You know, I mean, it's just a tough place to be. And again, I'm trying to figure out where we should land with the Raiders. And it's obviously been sort of a strange season. They get out to a hot start. And I think a game like this, it's just laid out right in front of you where some of the roster deficiencies are.

45:36Robert Mays: But we should have been able to anticipate a lot of those deficiencies. Like coming into the season with a receiving core that's built the way that this one is, even if you have Brock Bowers, it's going to be really tough when teams have a sort of have a plan to reliably take him away. There's no one else that you're really scared is going to beat you. And so none of this, I don't think, should be that surprising on either side of the ball. The one thing that I do want to sit with a little bit and ask you about is where are we at with the inability to run the football? How much of this is Ashton Jensie's health?

46:09Robert Mays: How much of this is the plan? How much of this is an offensive line group that again, it was like, all right, well, can we get more out of them than last year's group did? But what is the talent level, even if that is kind of the, those are the dynamics at play. Like that's the one area where I do kind of want to sit with it because I want to get a sense of what our realistic expectations of that element of this team will be like moving forward. Because for a Clint Kubiak team, you're going to need to get hopefully to a certain level for this all to come together on offense with Fernando Mendoza or whoever's in there over the next couple of years.

46:47I think the unsatisfying answer is that it is a little bit of everything. I think that like part of it is even if Kubiak, I think at times can dress up the run game pretty well and obviously did this in Seattle. It is still very like one note in terms of what they're trying to accomplish. It is a lot of they're just trying to hit outside zone perimeter stuff. And I think this is an offensive line group that to me, I think struggles with that in a lot of ways. And I would just say to the right side of the offensive line in general is just not good. Like those are not to me, NFL starting caliber players.

47:18And I think that you just feel that on a week to week basis. And then I think the other part of it, you know, mentioning Gentile's health. I think Ashton Gentile to me at his best is a runner who if we block three, he's finding a way to get six. Like he is just one of those like grinds out and like makes the offensive line right sort of runner. But if the offensive line is so bad that like those little crevices don't even open up either, he's just going to get smacked in the backfield. and he's not going to have enough of those Kenneth Walker run around and make a crazy play to go make an explosive to balance it out.

47:52And I think that he's like that generally. I think right now he cannot cut laterally. And I think that you really feel what that's doing to the effectiveness of the rushing offense.

48:01Robert Mays: Are we at a point where we're a little bit worried about this? The guy you drafted in the top seven in a draft where there was a lot of really good players taken after him and what this has looked like, even if you account for the fact that he hasn't been 100%. that? I think yes and no. I think to some extent, yes, because there were obviously a number of really good players that they could have taken otherwise. I still do believe that there's a decent chance that next year they fix the offensive line a little bit. It's second year in the system for everybody and he's healthy. And by week six, he has 550 rushing yards.

48:33And we're like, oh yeah, he was just hurt last year. And I still, I think, am willing to give a young player that sort of of level. But I do think that it's probably more likely than not that he's a good to pretty good running back rather than a top five. Oh, my God, sort of running back. And I think that might be a little bit tough to stomach.

48:53Robert Mays: That's that's a tough place to land. Exactly. If you take him that high, he needs to be Bajon Robinson or, you know, Bajon Robinson being the literal best running back in the league is, I think, a really high bar. But of that caliber where in a given season, they were drafted in the same spot. Exactly. Exactly. And you feel how different those two guys are. Yeah, I kind of am landing in the same place, even if it's going to be hard to come to a real conclusion until we see him a little bit healthier. And by the way, Ashton Gentry was drafted one spot before Bajon Robinson was. He was the sixth pick in that draft, and I believe Bajon Robinson was the seventh pick in the 2023 draft, correct?

49:29Robert Mays: That sounds correct. Eighth. Eighth. Oh, man. To rub salt in the wound, the seventh pick in the 2023 draft was Tyree Wilson. that's that's that's that's a tough one gente is definitely not that bad that's a tough one last thing here what do we make of the fernando timeline do we want to see him do you think it do you think it matters like when you watch that game i i don't i don't come away from that game feeling like the way i did about watching james winston and like all right it's time i don't we i don't need to watch this anymore but when do you think it would be realistic or worthwhile for us to see Fernando Mendoza.

50:06Robert Mays: So selfishly, of course, I want to see him. I think he's a really good quarterback prospect. And I think he objectively is just a much more talented quarterback than Kirk Cousins at this stage. I do think, though, I'm kind of in line of like, I really don't think it fixes anything for this season, because I think thrusting a young quarterback like him into a situation where you really don't have many workable wide receivers and the run game is non-existent. Like you are just, I think, kind of throwing him out to the wolves in a way that is kind of asking for things to really go wrong and really to set some negative habits and stuff like that.

50:42And then, like you said, this is not a Jameis Winston, we have to move on from this quarterback situation. I think Kirk has been an average, at times above average quarterback for large stretches of this season, even if I think in this game, they ran up against a really, really good pass defense. I still think that there can be games where Kirk throws for 280 and two or three touchdowns and they look like a pretty good passing offense. And I think even if Mendoza might have games or throws that are like, oh, my God, in a way that Kirk Cousins is not going to have. I do think the down to down consistency of what you get from Kirk Cousins right now is valuable.

51:15So I think the only reason I would play Mendoza is not to fix anything this season, but they just get to a point where we're like, this is done. We're going to get him reps. And I just I don't think the season is quite that doomed yet.

51:29Robert Mays: I think that's right. I just wonder when when you try to split that difference, like when you feel like, all right, this is the right amount of time to get this guy, even if the circumstances aren't great. It's an unsatisfying answer might be that we just don't see him this season. I think that was always going to be the case with how they were approaching it. And Clint Kubiak, I mean, right before we started recording, came out and was adamant that there is no real conversation. Like, Kirk Cousins is the starting quarterback. And so I think with how steadfast they've been with it and for all of the reasons that you said, I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

52:02Robert Mays: And maybe it just doesn't happen at all. But when the season feels like it's become something that it didn't feel like over the first month, I think it's worth the conversation at the very least, like the one that we're having right now. Exactly. We're like the first three weeks of the season. It was like, man, are the Raiders going to like be punchy and be like a wildcard team? And I think that that ship has probably sailed. But they still feel like a competent and competitive football team. And until the loss column is so big that that doesn't matter. I feel like they're going to continue to let this thing rock with Kirk Cousins.

52:34Robert Mays: All right, let's take one more quick break and then come back and chat a little Cardinals Broncos.

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54:04Robert Mays: All right, your biggest takeaway from the Broncos 30 to 16 win over the Cardinals yesterday is what? I mean, they got Bo Nix to throw the football down the field a little bit. I thought that that was like if you're going to be a serious offense and try to convince me that you are still one of the best eight to 10 teams in football. And the defense is playing the way that it is at a really high level. I wanted to see a little bit more aggression out of this passing offense. And I did think you saw it. And specifically, when they went into empty, Bo Nix was really willing to rip it. Those were like two of the four plays.

54:36Yes, it was like he, I don't know what it is. I don't know if he like just loves the spread look of it all. It like empties out the coverage for him, whatever. But literally the first play of the game, they get him in empty. And he just like chucks this little seam bender to Cortland Sutton against cover two. There was one later in the game where just at the end of the third quarter, he throws a hole shot against cover two. Marvin Mims makes a guy miss and runs it. It's like a 47-yard gain. And then early on in the fourth quarter, they go to two by three empty again. And he finds Jalen Waddle actually running with the pole runner in Tampa too, but he puts it on his back shoulder and it's a really good ball.

55:14And I'm like, okay, these are the throws that if you can make two of those a game and the run game can look okay and you can have, you know, getting a 60-yard touchdown scramble is not going to happen every week. But if we can get more Bo Nix scrambling and actually getting positive plays there, it's like, yes, this is the formula for the 15th best offense in the league. And if the defense is going to be elite, that's all it's got to be. It's just that for the first six weeks of the season, they weren't even doing that.

55:40Robert Mays: I don't even think I realized that the Marvin Mims completion was out of empty because the two I had in mind were the Cortland Sutton seam ball in the first drive and then the Jalen Waddle back shoulder throw later in the game. so literally three like the three i think he had four completions of 10 plus air yards three of them were out were out of empty three of the four and i can't remember what the fourth one was and so it's not just they were using it a little bit but yeah yeah like it's it really was just like get him an empty he'll throw it i mean i think that's it's a good thing that he was willing to do it I part of me does I would like to see it in more ways than if we do this he will throw the ball that way I think I definitely agree with that like this is good this is a good first step right that it's like okay they have rediscovered some way that he's willing to do it I think you still want to see probably a little bit more from play action where he's willing to do it probably want to see a little bit more true gun can he push the ball down the field that's not just go balls but still the fact that they found some way to get him to target that 11 to 25 yard area it was it was encouraging and then again he he was willing to access stuff a little bit more as a scrambler in this game in a way that I think has been a little bit more up and down the first six weeks yeah I think there's still some gaps to be closed but absolutely an encouraging step in the right direction people will look at the air yards and they'll be like oh yeah he averaged like we it's time to go on my ramp we there are so many things that are happening on the internet right now that are breaking the brains of the people who follow professional football online.

57:16Robert Mays: Let's take this piece by piece. One, checkdowns are not inherently bad. They're not. They're not inherently bad. They can be good or they can be bad depending on when you take them, how efficient they are, what other throws were available. Like the idea that checking the ball down is always bad is hilarious. Checking the ball down is often good, but it's about why you're checking the ball down. That's rant number one. Two, looking at a guy's air yards at the end of a game and being like, that is all that matters is not always a good indication of what the game looked like. The air yards in this game were significantly better.

57:54Robert Mays: He was one of six on throws of 20 plus yards. If you're just going to chuck a bunch of arbitrary balls down the field, it doesn't really change what you look like playing quarterback down to down. Like we said, there are, there were more aggressive intermediate throws being taken in this game. But if you throw six 50 yard incompletions, your air yards are going to look good at the end of the game. That has no bearing on what the game actually felt like. And so I just think there are so many things like the, the check downs thing to me. And like this year, last year's hospital balls is this year's check down merchant.

58:30Robert Mays: Like that's what we've done over the first seven weeks of the season is that we've used people see one shirt and they hear one term and then they fixate on it in a way that has no bearing on the games that are actually being played and it's driving me insane it's like the checkdowns specifically are like the checkdowns are only bad if they are clearly hamstringing you from doing other making other good plays and i think with bo nix that that has been true at times but like Like you watch, you know who checks the ball down a lot? Patrick Mahomes. But he's still willing to make a lot of the important throws that he needs to where you don't feel like, oh, my God, this guy's checking the ball way too much.

59:08And so that really is the difference is that only when it starts to feel like he's clearly passing up something in service to do this or his eyes are immediately going there, whatever it is. But checking it down, especially within the vacuum of like an individual play, often not a bad thing. It is usually better than the other outcomes.

59:26Robert Mays: Well, part of the conversation around this is that during the Thursday night game, there was praise for Drake May checking the ball down in that game. And it's like, well, why is he allowed to check the ball down? For so many reasons. Because of the other plays that he was making, I would say. That particular line of discourse to me has just been very, very frustrating over the first seven weeks. And at some point, I was going to have to get it off my chest. Anything else about the offense for the Broncos in this game that you wanted to bring up? Like for me, this was a game that came down to like three or four massive explosives.

59:59Robert Mays: It was the scramble. It was the RJ Harvey screen. It was the whole shot that you're talking about. Like those plays, the three of them really did help swing the game. That scramble touchdown is an absolute backbreaker that happens. And then McBride can't hang on to the third down throw right after it. And the Cardinals are forced to punt. And then the other big swing, if we want to get to the other side of the ball, to me, that happens is there the Cardinals are down 13-6 early in the third quarter on first down they there was a big corner route to Trey McBride that looked like he caught it he didn't then he gets into second and 10 on third down they have no pressure plan they chuck up a go ball for a player whose name I cannot remember right now was it Brooks down the left side yeah where it's just on the right side they just like chucked up a go ball on third and 10 against a pressure look to Jalen Brooks it falls incomplete and they're punting and then the punt was blocked immediately that's that's it's funny you say that that it's a lot of swing moments because down to down it didn't feel like the game was like super out of like Arizona's favor and then obviously by the final scoreboard it looks like they just got completely stomped in this game but they were pretty competitive for a lot of it and then it really was just like two or three complete blow up moments for them that the game just falls away completely.

1:01:22Robert Mays: I think that's exactly right. I mean, again, it's 13-6 early in the third quarter. That ball to McBride falls incomplete. The punk gets blocked, gives the Broncos the ball with the 40, and then Harvey goes 52 yards on the screen, and the game is essentially over. And I will say, too, that screen call was awesome. Incredible. That's because Arizona is trying to blitz off the left side, which is the open side of the formation, So no tight end on the on that side of the ball. And they blitz, I think, the linebacker and then like whoever the down safety or nickel was. I can't remember who it was. And they both scream off that side and they throw the screen to Harvey, like right replacing it.

1:01:58So you now have five players just sprinting at the quarterback. Harvey has a ton of room to go. And so that was that's just like a great call in that moment to catch a defense that, you know, wants to do a bunch of that stuff. Catch him on a first and 10. I thought that was an awesome call.

1:02:11Robert Mays: Two other thoughts about that side of the ball before we get to the Cardinals offense versus the Broncos defense. One, if you want to do this, you have access to it. Go look at the personnel groupings that the Broncos used in this game. Just a list of it. It's hilarious. It's like a bit that Sean Payton does every single game. Is it all of them? Yes. So I'm currently looking at it. The Cardinals in this game used one, two, three, four unique personnel groupings. They had 45 plays of 11 personnel, 21 plays of 13 personnel, eight plays of 12 personnel, and then one play out of Jumbo. Four groupings, usually like four to five, four to six, is like a normal number in any given game.

1:02:54Robert Mays: The Broncos in this game used one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten different personnel groupings. He's just trying to prove a point. I don't know what the point is. It really is a bit at this point. I don't know what exactly he's trying to say, but he's trying to say something. He does it as a way to keep defenses unsettled. It's part of their approach offensively. When you just see it laid out like that, it's hilarious. And then the last part about this, about the offense specifically, Jonah Coleman's a good player. Jonah Coleman's their best running back. And I think he will be important to this team as they try to figure out whatever the best version of the offense looks like over the rest of the season.

1:03:38A hundred percent. Like this has been a rushing offense that's been below average success rate for a lot of the season. And obviously the overall numbers in this game are skewed for their rushing, you know, yards per attempt because the Boenick scramble is ridiculous. But Jonah Coleman specifically was like an above average runner in this game, which the Broncos have not had for a lot of this season. And so he can just make him right a little bit, grind out six when four is there like that sort of thing. I think that that's going to be huge for them because this is an offense and a quarterback that I really think needs to stay ahead of the sticks.

1:04:06And if they can do that more consistently, they're going to be in a good way.

1:04:09Robert Mays: Anything about the other side of the ball that you wanted to hit before we got out of here? I mean, for me, it's the Cardinals had two backup offensive linemen in. It was going to be a rough day at the office for Jacoby Brissett against this past rush. And that's exactly what happened. And it was. I think you're now feeling the fact that like this receiving core, I mean, the amount of like there were multiple go balls that they were just throwing up to Brooks because you mentioned the one down the right side. I know for a fact there was one down the left hand side where they just chuck one up into double coverage.

1:04:34It really did feel like all they had was McBride. I will say I was really impressed and this is again partly against you're playing against a handful of backup offensive linemen but I was impressed with a lot of the kind of backup and depth pieces up front for the Broncos like Savion Jones backup interior lineman has a sack in this game I thought Dondra Tillman had a number of really impressive plays especially as a pass rusher in this game and again that's against backup left tackles but I just thought that this is a defense where obviously they've got a bunch of star players even without Patrick certain right now but their kind of secret weapon is how deep their front is both on the interior and on the edge and I think that this was a game where you were just reminded that like they've got some good players who can do a lot of good stuff on their second wave

1:05:18Robert Mays: they java cooper's back now and so I mean and zach allen got banged up in this game I don't know what the exact prognosis is but I I'm 100 with you like q robinson has contributed this year like malcolm roach had a big play in this game that they've got a bunch of guys that can affect the game. They really do have two hockey lines of players up front. And the other one that when I watch him, I've been really impressed with some of the stuff he's done in space this season because we were wondering what it was going to look like with him kind of moving into a full time role rather than just being their designated blitzer coming off the second level.

1:05:50Robert Mays: I think Stranade's like a really useful player. Like he's not putting them in bad positions consistently as like a second level player with range and coverage in the way that you thought might happen this year he's there is a certain kind of linebacker who you can use in like very specific ways and he works for you and if you can take out the stuff that hurts you and he can at least get to a certain level there you can be in a good spot like drake thomas is this for the seahawks like he's a very incomplete player but he is good really good at the things that he's good at and they do a good job schematically of kind of hiding some of the stuff that he's not great at and i think now that it's another year in the system obviously with van joseph and i will say I continue to just be so impressed with the way that he calls and teaches this defense.

1:06:33Like, he is just on the heater again, man. They are awesome. Because, again, they're one of the best defenses in the NFL. And Patrick Chertan has missed, like, half the season. It's unbelievable.

1:06:43Robert Mays: It's time, man. It's time. He deserves another shot. They are, again, they're missing their best player. And they've got some horses up front, no pun intended. But this is still a group that you look at the way it's coached on the back end and just the things that they're taking away. way it's just so well put together and you look at we don't have to get into like the whole Vance Joseph history and like the way that it went the first time and all that but I think he is more than justified in getting another crack at this thing considering what the Broncos have looked like pretty much since the back half of the 2023 season I mean pretty much everything from the 70 point game and on they have been like a really impressive defense which is it's so funny that he can go from that and like holding the job and now he is year over year one of the best defenses in the NFL they finished fourth in defensive DVOA in 2024 they were fifth in 2025 and now they're currently sitting at fifth again seven weeks into the season it's been about as consistent as it gets over that period of time I mean even Seattle obviously has just really been the last two and a half years compared to the last three and a half years for the Broncos I mean it's they're really they really stand alone when you think about units that have been that consistently good over that stretch with them and Minnesota.

1:08:01Robert Mays: I mean, those are really the only two teams and the Vikings were outside of the top 10 in 2023 before finishing in the top five, each of the last two seasons. So those, those two units have been really, really consistent in a way that you just don't often see on that side of the ball. And so continue to be very impressed with them. All right. That is all we've got with the week seven hangover. We will be back tonight. If you're watching this on Tuesday, it'll be last night with our Monday Night Football recap. If you're watching this on YouTube, I encourage you guys to like and subscribe. Do all of that fun stuff.

1:08:36Robert Mays: For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

1:09:21We'll be right back. Not available if we've met your T-Mobile in the past 180 days.

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