Aaron Rodgers to the Steelers, Jaire Alexander released, and more from OTAs

0:00If you've ever sent a cold email, you know how it goes. Figuring out who to email, where their contact info is, and what messaging will land. It takes time, and sometimes dozens of tabs. I've been there. That's why I use Apollo. Apollo is an all-in-one system for data enrichment, sequencing, automated messaging, and intelligence, powered by AI that helps do the work, so you can do everything from finding prospects to closing deals, all in one place. Head to Apollo.io and sign up for free.

0:30Robert Mays: That's Apollo.io.

0:34Teens spend an average of nine hours a day on screens outside of school. That's basically a full-time job just scrolling mindlessly. We all know how bad scrolling mindlessly is for us as adults. Think about how bad that could be for teenagers and even younger children. Here's the good news. There's a solution. A company called Gav has solved the problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is Tech in Steps. Tech in Steps works by providing safer phones and watches for kids with no social media, tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for tweens and teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence.

1:15Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected without social media. Right now, use our code to get the best deal on a kid's phone that will make parenting easier and give you more peace of mind. Visit gab.com slash football show and use code football show for an exclusive offer. That's Gab G-A-B-B. Fall doesn't live in just one room. It's all around us, inside, outside, wherever we are during this season, we can find fall. So if fall doesn't live in just one room, why should your fragrance? With Pura's whole home scenting, one system fills every space.

1:56The entryway that greets your guests, the kitchen where everyone gathers, the bedroom where the day finally slows down. All automatic, all yours. Discover your sense of place at Pura.com.

2:13Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It is nice to be back. I sincerely appreciate everybody picking out the slack while I was gone. Derek, Mike Sando, Jake Seeley, Michael Bauer. Really fun to have Deontay Lee back on the show. Got some much needed, much enjoyed time away with my wife. So thank you very much to everybody who was willing to kind of chip in and make that possible. But it's really good to be back with you guys. I missed some stuff while I was gone. I was gone for about two weeks and plenty of things happened. We are going to use today to scoop up all of those news items.

2:46Robert Mays: Aaron Rodgers, a couple of trades that happened. Frank Dragnow retiring some injury news that has trickled out over the last couple of days. Derek joined me to hit all of that as we do a little bit of an OTAs news item reset. So let's get to that conversation with Derek right now.

3:09Robert Mays: We are officially back. I am officially back here at the athletic football show after a very nice vacation, a very nice bit break, but I'm very happy to be back and I'm very happy to be joined by my co-host here at the athletic football show. It's Derek Klassen. Derek, how are you doing, man? I'm doing great. It's, uh, it's good to have you back. I mean, yeah, you know, we had some fun, you know, where, where the kids were running the show here for a little bit, uh, and it, and it was great, but I mean, it's been at least two weeks since we've recorded a podcast together. So I'm, I'm pretty excited to get back into it.

3:37Robert Mays: I am as well. You did a great job. I went back and listened to the Deontay episode this morning. You're a natural. You were, you, you took to it. Well, I, you, I appreciate you guys really holding it down while I was gone. You know, my wife and I, again, this job, you can really only travel one time of the year and we like to get away for a little bit. And we had a phenomenal time. We saw just a staggering amount of Spain. I mean, we went all around the country for like two and a half weeks and just saw so much cool stuff and really, really enjoyed it. And, you know, trying to make up a little bit for lost time with the lack of traveling I did for a few years.

4:08Robert Mays: And so the chance to get away, it's a lot easier when I know that the house is being intended too well. And I know you guys were going to do a great job. And so thank you very much for taking on more work while I was gone. It is deeply appreciated on my side of things. Yeah, of course. Is, uh, am I putting you on the spot asking for any highlights from the trip? Oh my God. It's hard. It's hard to say, man. I mean, it's all so different. You know, it's all so different. Like we went, we spent four days in San Sebastian and then took a train down to Madrid. We're there for two days. And then we drove all the way down.

4:38Robert Mays: It's like Andalusia in the southern part of the country. So Granada, Cordoba, Sevilla. And then we flew to Mallorca for four days, which was, Mallorca was incredible. I mean, just absolutely beautiful. And so we got to kind of slow down there for a couple of days. And then we flew to Barcelona and we went to a music festival, like the first night that we were there. So we woke up in Mallorca and then I was seeing Caribou at Primavera Sound the next day. And then we were seeing Charlie XCX at two in the morning in Barcelona. Like we did a little bit of everything over a two and a half week span.

5:09Robert Mays: it's, that was the nice part about it though, is that there was a little bit of everything and we got to calm down. We wanted to, so it was truly like one of the trips of our lifetime. Like I'll, I'll remember this very fondly for a very, very long time. And so we do it for our anniversary. Like, so our anniversary is Memorial day weekend. And so the last two years we've gotten to take big trips for our first and second anniversaries. And again, I feel very fortunate to be able to do that. And this was another one where it was a truly special trip. So I appreciate you asking and I appreciate you guys, you know, willing, being willing and able to take care of things while I was gone for a little bit.

5:42Yeah. Doing our best. Can't say I was, you know, chilling on a beach or seeing Charlie XCX, but we were having a good time here.

5:48Robert Mays: I'm sure you guys were, you did a great job with Deontay. It was good to have him back on. I missed some stuff while we were gone and I knew this was going to happen. You know, the way that the calendar falls, there are OTAs and when I take this vacation each year and there's stuff to pick up and scoop up when we get back into town. And that's what we're going to do today. So some of this is a little bit dated. Some of this has happened over the last like couple of weeks, but because you guys were doing shows that were kind of more singularly focused on one subject, I wanted to just take today to scoop up all of the little bits of news that we got from pretty much all of the OTA practices, obviously some pretty big blockbuster type moves that have happened.

6:25Robert Mays: So that's what we're going to do today. We're just going to hit about 10 ish items of news that have crept out over the last two weeks or so and kind of cover all of our bases from what the newsworthy stuff from OTAs has looked like. Yeah. You get back from Spain and you, uh, immediately are confronted with Aaron Rogers. How does that feel? Inevitable. Like I knew at some point, this is going to happen. I figured it would happen while I was gone. And, you know, June 1st, obviously is a big day in the NFL calendar. There weren't as many veteran moves after June 1st, as we might have expected. We'll obviously talk about Jair Alexander here in a second.

7:01Robert Mays: He was released this morning. We're recording this on Monday. But the fact that Roger signed during that part of the calendar, I'm not necessarily surprised. I am glad that it was sort of in the back half of things so we could justifiably talk about it today and not have it be like two and a half week old news. If anything, I'm actually mildly surprised it happened this early. So good on them and good for the Steelers, I suppose, in that respect. one year 13.7 ish million dollars 10 million dollars guaranteed there are incentives that can take it up to like 18 or so million dollars is there anything about this that you find notable or surprising or is this pretty much what you sort of expected maybe other than how quickly it happened in the timeline overall yeah other than me expecting aaron rogers to have drawn this out for a little bit longer to do whatever it is that he does at this time of year um that's really the only part of this that is surprising to me and I understand that I should care about a signing like this and I understand that I am paid money to care about a signing like this but there is just like nothing about this that that got me moving I just we've talked about it before that I didn't love this fit I thought they should have got for cousins and all that stuff so not surprised at any of the way that this unfolded other than maybe you know the date of it happening but it I wanted to somehow talk myself into this that like I could get like five percent more excited for the Steelers and I just don't really think I can.

8:25Robert Mays: You look at the number and you look at what he's getting paid this year. It really is just a multi-time MVP surefire hall of fame markup on the other one year stopgap starting deals that we've seen this year. Like it's really just a respectful upgrade on the Daniel Jones contract. Like that's essentially what we're talking about with what the Steelers are paying Aaron Rodgers here. Yeah, it's just a, they're paying him that there's like six million of that money it's just like ah you've done it before even though we haven't seen it in three years at this point he's he's a little bit older he's he's got the injury stuff it's just a lot of what he's getting paid for is stuff that he's done before which is kind of funny in a lot of ways for a Steelers organization that I think is living off of a reputation of stuff that they have done before and not done recently which is why I think in a lot of ways this pairing is um pretty artistic i'm not sure how much more the cousins move or a cousins move would have moved me or made me more compelled by what this is going to look like probably would have been in the same general range i think that where they are right now with the position they're obviously backed into a corner there are only so many moves they could have made this offseason whether that be matthew stafford or bringing jack back justin fields or doing something like this and there was reported earlier today i think it was pro football talk said that Rogers was their third option and Stafford and Fields were the first two.

9:49Robert Mays: Well, I guess kinda right. Like I'm sure Matthew Stafford would have been a lot of teams first option if they could have gotten him. And then they knew Justin Fields and he's a little bit younger. So I think potentially exploring that makes sense. But I can't, I think again, been a post Stafford world, a lot of the moves you could have made at quarterback this off season fell into the same general range. Like I think that Geno Smith is the guy that moved teams this year that I'm probably the most excited about in terms of what he could do for your short-term ceiling. Other than that, there were a lot of like, okay, I guess this is what you'll have to do given the market followed by a shrug.

10:26Robert Mays: And the Rogers thing kind of falls in line with that to me. I'm not overly excited about it, but I'm also not going to be critical of it because I don't think there were that many other doors that were unexplored that would make me feel differently about the Steelers than I do in a post Rogers move sort of world. on the field I think I agree like it probably is the same tiers whatever you're going to get from Kirk Cousins at this point even though that's what I would have wanted or even Justin Fields it's just the thing is like I would rather have Justin Fields or Kirk Cousins in my building at this point it's like especially Fields because you know that it could be for a little while longer whereas at least with Cousins it might not be for any longer than you would have Rodgers but I just I think from that perspective that's why I struggled with it but like in terms of on the field, you're probably going to get quarterback 20.

11:12Your running game will be a little bit better and you'll be functional.

11:16Robert Mays: I went back this morning after the signing and I was like, I'm going to do just a little bit of a refresh on how I feel about Aaron Rogers in 2025. You know, what did he actually look like in the back half of last year? And it looked a lot like he was in the end of his green Bay tenure. And I mean that in this way, when we were talking about Rogers heading into last year, I think we did it as one of the lingering questions heading into last season was like, okay, what was Aaron Rogers for real? The last time we saw him play football. And it was a lot of, I don't really have any interest in that.

11:47Robert Mays: You know, that was the style of play that we saw from him. And that's pretty much what it looked like last year. Like you watch him play and it's pretty much go balls, slot fades and access throws. Like that's what he's doing right now. And a couple of the numbers that bear that out, if you look at it, like middle of the field, intermediate throws. So throws were in theory, you kind of have to read stuff out. He was in the bottom three of all starters that had at least 350 dropbacks last year. So he's not doing it very often. He's also one of the worst quarterbacks in the league when he does do it.

12:20Robert Mays: If you look at the efficiency numbers and the number that really jumped out to me, he had the third highest percentage of his throws, according to next gen stats last year, that happened in under two and a half seconds. The only guys ahead of him were Tua and Joe Burrow. And then you look at the efficiency numbers associated with that. There were 26 quarterbacks last year who had at least 350 dropbacks. Rogers ranked 24th in EPA per dropback on quick throws last year with Burrow and Tua. This is in service of good offense for the most part. It needs to happen that way because that's the best version of your passing game in Cincinnati and Miami, respectively.

12:58Robert Mays: With Rogers, it's just like, I don't really want to do this anymore. And so I just don't know how or when that changes or if it changes because heading into the Jets thing, it was like, OK, if he's more invested, are we going to see a willingness to read stuff out more and actually play the play rather than him just spitting the ball to the perimeter or getting rid of it really quickly, which was kind of the case at the end in Green Bay? Well, now we're going on like year two and a half of that. And I don't think we're going to how much more incentive does he heading into his age 42 season have to not play that way anymore?

13:30Robert Mays: So I just don't even know what the best case scenario of this looks like, given a huge sample size of what we've gotten from a healthy Aaron Rodgers. The last two full seasons we've seen him play. That's kind of what I struggle with. And again, to bring up the Kirk thing for the millionth time, I think he likes Kirk Cousins would have liked playing in the Arthur Smith style of offense. Aaron Rodgers, I think we know, fought Matt LaFleur for a while on finally getting there. And then I think at the end of Green Bay, even they had a little bit contention. And then with the Jets, it wasn't that style of offense at all.

14:01It went back to the Aaron Rodgers where it's slot phase and access throws and we're throwing stick eight times a game for some godforsaken reason. Like it turned into that style of offense. And I just don't really see that style of receiving core in Pittsburgh. It just that just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. It's the opposite of that. Exactly. Like DK Metcalf is like not that player at all. And like the sell with DK Metcalf in theory is like, OK, Aaron Rodgers is still a good deep thrower. And DK Metcalf is a good down the field receiver. OK, well, you tried that formula last year with Russell Wilson and George Pickens.

14:34And like to what gain? Like it didn't really get you anything. And so I think the only way that this works out, the Steelers really, really wanted to. And Aaron Rodgers plays a slightly different way is if somehow, someway, this young offensive line turns into like a top five unit in the league, which there's like a two percent chance that happens. And even if I'm high on a lot of these guys, it's just like that's you're asking for a lot out of those young pieces.

14:58Robert Mays: We're doing two more lingering question shows over the next couple of weeks. and I don't want to step on this too much because we are going to do a Steelers one in the final iteration of those shows, our fourth one, which we'll run next week. And I think the central question for me with the Steelers, when we talk about their ceiling this year with Aaron Rodgers is, how good are the rest of the Steelers? And to me, that's a question worth exploring because if you're trying to build the case here, the offensive line is a very good place to start on offense. If that can be a very good group and they run the ball efficiently and Rodgers can sort of be a role player in all of this, maybe you could start to build a case.

15:33Robert Mays: But I think the most important point, the most important place you can start for what the Steelers can accomplish in 2025 is the defense is like an earth-shattering unit and the offense doesn't have to be very good. And I guess I just have some real questions about how viable that sort of build and that sort of path is given what we've seen from the Steelers defense recently. But again, I don't want to step on that too much because I think that's going to be the crux of the conversation that we have next week. There's that. And then the last thing I'll say is like, that was the cell with him and Robert Sala in New York.

16:04And then that's not how that unfolded. Yeah.

16:08Robert Mays: I mean, I think that the Jets defense was very good for a couple of years. The Steelers at least have like a multi-year track record of being good on defense. So I think it's a little bit less fragile. And I think that's the other point that's worth making for me with the Jets, the wholesale way they gave him control and say within the building, it could get rotted really quickly in ways that just aren't possible in Pittsburgh. Even if there are some acrimonious, not so great working relationships that occur for this one year, I don't think that you're going to have like splintering in the foundation of the wood in the way that you did with the Jets because of how much oxygen he was able to keep like soak up there.

16:49Robert Mays: So I think the downside cases, there's a little bit of protection from that that make me think this is more worthwhile for the Steelers than it might be for a more vulnerable organization overall. That's a good point. Even for as much as the Rodgers thing might be interesting, I don't think Tomlin's getting fired in week seven and then the defense is going to crumble. That probably won't happen. That's a good point. Let's stick with, speaking of interesting personalities that used to play with Aaron Rodgers, let's talk about Jair Alexander here. The Packers ultimately release Jair Alexander. Some reports today that they had tried to trade him this offseason.

17:21Robert Mays: teams were not willing to take on what had become a pretty big base salary for Jair this year. So now he's just gone. 7 million in dead money this year, 9 million next year, obviously, as opposed to June 1st cut, frees up$17 million in cap space this year for the Packers. And next year, you look at it, they have$46 million in space. Now we can talk about how they might try to use that functionally when you consider in season moves, maybe that's closer to like 30 to 33 million and they don't have much cap space next year before the Jair move, they were over the cap. So now they have about 7 million.

17:55Robert Mays: So my assumption is they'll want to roll over a good chunk of this to give them something to work with next year, considering how few worthwhile ways there are to use that cap space outside of Trey Hendrickson right now. But a little bit surprising that ultimately they couldn't get anything done on the trade market. And this is how it ends between Jair Alexander and the Packers. I am a little bit surprised that it had to be a cut instead of again there are like there are still a lot of cornerback needy teams because there's another cornerback we're going to talk about here later but I've got to like 10 different teams that might still need a cornerback at this state in the calendar so I'm a little bit surprised nobody wanted to jump the list a little bit well the thing is what if if you can just sign him after it's a lot of money and you don't have to give up anything even if you're only paying a portion of the salary I think that the Packers as it sat after signing Nate Hobbs.

18:47Robert Mays: They still have board, you know, they still have Keyshawn Nixon. I think that there was probably a lot of teams around the league that just assumed he was going to get released if they couldn't come to some sort of conclusion or some sort of resolution. And that's ultimately what happened. The question now is what happens for some of these teams and what the price tag looks like, because I don't know what the comparison would be. Darius Slay got$10 million this year, deep into his thirties, but Darius Slay has been a lot healthier than Jair Alexander has been, you know, he's playing seven games a year.

19:16Robert Mays: So even at 28, that sort of availability, you know, is this something closer to like what Trey white got from the Rams last year coming off of an injury? Is it something in the middle? And so that is going to be an important factor here. When we talk about the teams that can sign him, because it, let's say you do something like one year, 10 million and you put like four void years on it. And so it's like$3 million against the cap this year, you know, similar to like what the Ravens did with Odell a few years ago, even though that was 15. That means most teams in the league in theory could potentially sign him even at this stage of the calendar.

19:51Robert Mays: And I think you're right. I mean, I think we can list some teams off here. There are probably at least eight or 10 that I think you can make a compelling case for right now that it's at least worth exploring him for competition and potentially depth. If you can get them at the right price, because there's just not a ton of downside. Yeah. There's a lot of teams that should be poking around, especially to, like you said, if you can like manipulate the contract a little bit to make him not very expensive because he's already not going to be very expensive because again he's averaging like six seven eight games a season over the past I think three years where he just hasn't been very healthy to me that seems I'm looking at are like the Rams obviously they this is kind of the market they like to dip in for corners anyway it's like either we're going to take like a sixth round pick or we're just going to like swing for the fences a little bit on on a weird uh free agent like this I think the Vikings still make a lot of sense I I think like their cornerback room could still use a little bit of help.

20:39And then the Cowboys and the Cowboys would be tricky because Diggs is coming off of an injury. Siobhan Revell is coming off of an injury from college. And then Alexander would be coming off an injury. So you'd have a bunch of guys who are not particularly healthy. But at that point, it's like someone's going to be fine for us at the end of the year. And you kind of need depth and help anyway.

20:59Robert Mays: So I think there's even more than that. If you want to keep listing off teams, I think those are all on my list. I think the Eagles are a team that I would throw out there if they would rather have a somewhat if they just want to have a discount on what Darius Slay was for them last year. And they don't feel super comfortable with Keeley Ringo and whatever that competition looks like at the other outside corner spot. Do they want to go this direction? I think that's a team I throw out there. The Raiders are a team that I would throw out there just based on need. There's a chance that the Raiders just say we want to give the young guys opportunities and we don't want to step on that.

21:31Robert Mays: I think that's a totally fair position to take. but even if you want to use one corner spot to do that the other one still needs addressing too like eric stokes is penciled in there right now and and the only reason with the raiders i would almost wonder if they don't want to do that is like patrick graham's been there man he knows who's in the building like does he even want to give any of the more young guys a shot like or is he at the point where he's like okay i've seen enough of some of these guys let's go try and see if we can get 12 games out of jay or alexander so i think that's going to be a team worth you know if you wanted to watch just based on need, I think the Cowboys and the Vikings were also on my list.

22:04Robert Mays: I would throw the Falcons out there, a team that has some win now, you know, motivations. And I think has a little bit of urgency right now. And my cues, I think is still penciled in another outside corner spot. They didn't pay him a ton. They paid him that classic. If we have to do this, we can do it contract, but we don't, if there's another option, maybe we explore it. The Panthers are a team out there, out there. Mike Jackson signed essentially the same Mike Hughes contract this off season for their other outside corner spot, the Seahawks. They were in the Rasul Douglas market. They chatted with him a little bit recently, all of these former Packers.

22:40Robert Mays: And we talked about them needing another outside guy potentially to move Spoon full-time into the slot and not have to worry about that. The Rams and then the Niners are the other team that I would throw out there. I mean, the Niners could still probably use a little bit of outside corner help, even though they signed Trey Brown this off season. So I think there are plenty of teams at the right price that you could talk yourself into it. If you can get it at the right price and you can mitigate whatever disaster it would be if you only played like six or seven games and you think the swing is worth it along with.

23:11Robert Mays: Let's call it an interesting personality fit, right? He's just an interesting character to bring into your building. Not like a malicious character necessarily. No, he's just one of one. There's been plenty of fun moments from Jair Alexander over the last several years where it's like, oh, there's just nobody like this guy. so the injury stuff plus that if you can get them for four five six million bucks and if you can get the cap number really low it just feels like it's probably worth a swing for some of these teams that have real ambitions in 2025 and still don't have that second corner spot lockdown in the way they probably want to that's why i think he he probably is going to end up being on one of these teams that are like the fringe wild card but feel kind of desperate for one reason or another that's why I think the Falcons make a lot of sense.

24:00Cowboys are not necessarily in that, but like the Cowboys do need to do any move to get their defense back into where it was. So I think those are the teams that I'm kind of looking at. And then again, you mentioned the 49ers. I think that's a really good one. Like Trey Brown has been on and off like a really good replacement level player for a number of teams at this point, but he's kind of in that tier of like, if we can find another option, that would be nice.

24:22Robert Mays: The Falcon, it just feels like something the Falcons would do based on what the Falcons have done over the last couple of years. And so, and yeah, there's a couple of other guys still out there, like Rasul Douglas, I believe is still out there. So there are some veteran solutions if you don't go out and get a Jair Alexander, but I wouldn't be surprised if any of those 10 teams that we just said ultimately do this. One of the reactions to this has kind of been, ah, you know, I wonder, are we surprised that Packers didn't do more at corner in free agency in the draft that this was a possibility?

24:50Robert Mays: I wasn't looking at it that way. Like I just always assumed he wouldn't be on the team in one way or another. I always thought he was kind of a bonus in the way that they were building it. And then what would they got from Javon Billard in the slot last year with Evan Williams at safety? I think now you're in a spot where it's Keyshawn Nixon and Nate Hobbs outside with Javon Bullard in the slot. And that's what the secondary is going to look like when their best five are out there. I think that's absolutely what it's going to look like. And I still have some questions about how well that's going to go.

25:22because I still think Nixon, I mean, they kind of stumbled into him being a corner at all for them. Like he was pretty much a return specialist when he got there. And then it was kind of just a matter of like, OK, a bunch of guys, including Jerry Alexander, continued to get hurt and they had to throw him out there. And he's been serviceable. But I am a little bit surprised that they got to the point where they kind of felt all they needed to really do is add Nate Hobbs into the mix this offseason and that they were going to be OK.

25:47Robert Mays: Yeah, so I'm not surprised that they're comfortable rolling with that group because it did seem like it was kind of pointing that direction. The one other kind of tangent arm off of this is the Jalen Ramsey part of it, because you mentioned the Rams. I've just kind of pushed them to the side because I just assume they're going to work something out with Jalen Ramsey. But as we keep going further into June, you know, maybe that becomes a little bit murkier. I wonder what's holding this up now that the money is no longer an issue. Like the moment that June first hit, they could trade him and all of the financial machinations of it would look the same.

26:22Robert Mays: So I'm curious why maybe we have a couple of barriers to this that maybe we aren't seeing right now. I still anticipate him getting moved and I still just feel like the Rams are probably the most logical spot based on their familiarity with him and what that other outside cornerback spot still looks like for this team. Yeah, he's I wonder if there's just a bidding war. I mean, he is far and away the best defensive back any team can add to their roster at this stage, and he's going to be expensive. So that's going to complicate it. He's also on the wrong side of 30. But where I think that gets interesting with Ramsey is we've even he's talked about this for a long time in his career, like when he starts to fall off as a corner, he's probably going to be fine as a safety.

27:02And so even if what you're paying him now would be pretty expensive for a safety, the idea of the cornerback cliff doesn't really scare me with him in a way that it would for Rasul Douglas, Darius Slay, you know, Jair Alexander, all these other guys. So even though he's expensive, I really think there probably is a bidding war because, again, I don't think any other defensive back on on the market can change your secondary the way that Ramsey can, because one, he's still a good outside corner. If you want to move him back to the nickel, I'm sure you could absolutely do that. And then truthfully, if this is the year you want to move him to safety, I don't know how open he is to that right now, but that is still on the board.

27:37So I'm again, you mentioned the Rams. They're absolutely on the table. I don't know if the Cowboys would be this aggressive, but they should think about it. The Raiders, I think should think about it. And I've mentioned the Chargers a hundred times for being a team that if they're serious, they should call about Jalen Ramsey.

27:51Robert Mays: There's no massive base salary sitting there for Jalen Ramsey. So I wonder like what the financial conversations are like, cause I don't know Miami taking some of that on doesn't seem as important with that current structure as it would for something like Jerry Alexander. I truly don't know what the sticking points are between Miami and whoever's looking to trade for Jalen Ramsey, but I assume we will have some sort of resolution on that sooner rather than later, even if it's taken a little bit longer than we might have anticipated. All right, we are going to take our first quick break and then come back with a few more quick hitting news items here.

28:24Robert Mays: Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions may apply. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or the tea you somehow always reach for first.

28:58Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy, and that's what Quince does best. Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100 % Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day. Their 100 % Mongolian cashmere sweater started to$60, giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. And when the temperatures start to drop, as they have, at least where I live, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with premium down jackets and classic wool outerwear.

29:34Versatile layers designed to keep you warm and comfortable all season long. So like I said, here in the Upper Midwest, we are into the cooler time of the year. Fall is here. It's been a beautiful start to the fall. One thing I love about the fall, I mean, I love a lot of things about the fall, for being honest. But one extra thing that I love, my Quince jacket. Obviously, it had to go into the closet for the summer. But now that that's gone, fall is here. The jacket, it's back out. Feels great. Looks great. Goes perfectly with what I want to be doing in the fall. Not just wearing, but also outside doing in the fall.

30:07Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quinns asks where you heard about them, let them know it was The Athletic Football Show. It's the best way to support our show. During this year's NFL Hall of Fame induction, I actually had a thought about getting back into sports cards. One of the reasons being is that Luke Keekly, obviously longtime Carolina Panthers linebacker, one of my favorite players of all time. He's the reason I love linebackers the way I do.

30:39Some of those Panthers teams just held a really special part in my heart, even as someone who is not a Panthers fan. And so to see him obviously commemorated in the Hall of Fame was really special. And I thought, why don't for some of the NFL players that I truly love to have been special players to me over the years, whether that was when I was a kid growing up and doing this for a living, whatever it's been, why not kind of commemorate those guys myself and get some of my favorite players who have been in the Hall of Fame, who have obviously earned that sort of honor. Maybe let's go pick up some cards and see if I can kind of create my own Hall of Fame with guys like that.

31:14So thanks to Whatnot, I was able to go find some Luke Kuechly cards, some really good ones. And obviously he's been, again, like I said, a player that I've held in high esteem for a long time. So whether it's rookie cards, whether it's cards later in his career when he's got a million accolades and defensive player of the years and all pros racked up, it didn't really matter to me. I was able to find all of the stuff I wanted in that realm. The best thing about doing this on Whatnot is that I can see it before I buy it. This is not just clicking a listing and hoping that it's going to be there.

31:45No, these sellers are showing me that they've got this card. And on top of that, these guys know their stuff. These are people who value these cards. They value the collectibles. They value what they are trying to give to the customer. And they know whether or not this is something that is really worth its value. And so being able to have the comfort of both of those two things as I'm going in to try to start this new venture, I think has been really, really nice for me. And now you can start buying on whatnot. You can get$20 off of your first purchase right now. Just search Whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the App Store, download, sign up, and start shopping today.

32:21Terms apply.

32:26Robert Mays: The big one that came down, I can't remember where I was. It was, it's going to drive me crazy now. I want to say I was like in Sevilla. and I was looking at my phone and saw it come through and I was like, oh my God. And my wife was like, what happened? And I was like, Frank Ragnall retired. And she started, she's like, you're ridiculous. She's like, I thought something real happened. And I was like, this is real. This is a big deal. And I was trying to like explain to her what, why it was a big deal. And like the fact that he was really young and you know, the lions are this team that has a lot of ambitions right now.

33:01Robert Mays: And so it's a big loss for them. And she, it didn't matter. By the end of the explanation, she was still like, that's an unacceptable reaction for anything that's not earth shattering. And so I felt bad about it and had to apologize. Yeah, that's one of those things that like for us, that's a completely normal reaction. But for anybody else, it's like short of somebody dying. Everything under that is just like, oh, well, you oversold it. I don't really care anymore. It was a very funny way to react to something while we were on vacation. But it was shocking. And it's shocking for a few different reasons.

33:31Robert Mays: One, he's a young player. You know, Frank Ragnow has been in the league for seven years and still playing at an extremely high level. He's 29 years old. And for him to be a second team, all pro player and as important to their current hopes as he is, that's what makes it so surprising. And I think that was my first reaction to it outside of man playing center and playing offensive line in the NFL is like a daily hellish pursuit. that these guys are just going through so much more physically than we probably could ever understand. And obviously Frank Ragnar has played through ridiculous shit over his career.

34:07Robert Mays: Other than that reaction, I think the secondary one was, this is why you have to do it while you have a chance, right? This is why you have to take advantage of these opportunities because you don't know what's going to happen. You're all pro center can retire at 29 when you're in the midst of a championship hunt. And even if you feel pretty good about whatever alternatives and contingencies you have in the building are, this is a huge loss for a Lions team that still very much has championship aspirations. Yeah. This is the like peak thing of like windows don't really exist in the NFL the way that you think that they exist.

34:46Like the only way that you have a surefire window all the time is basically having like Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen. Like that's really all that it is and Jared Goff is great but he's not quite to that level and I think to me obviously going into this offseason we knew this was going to be the last year of Ben Johnson he leaves all that stuff but so much of why we thought it might be okay is like okay well if you have three pillars of you know that lead the intellectual you know pillars of all your offense it's your quarterback it's your center it's your offensive play caller okay well we thought we were going to have two of them and now two of them are gone instead of two of them being there and the issue that I have with it is like, OK, we knew Ben Johnson was great.

35:24I think almost everybody would say that he's a top six play caller, probably. And then Ragnow, probably a good case that he was the best center in the league still. And like so you're losing two guys who were like top five at their positions at minimum. And then the only one that you have left is Jared Goff, who is good, but is probably more like 10th at his position, which like I know that seems a little bit ridiculous, but like you are dropping a tier. And when he's the only guy left, I think that's a little bit of an issue so i just i don't think we're going to go back to like 2021 lines offense or anything like that where we don't have any of these guys and it looks terrible but it's it's pretty clear that i think the ceiling of this offense is going to be significantly lower than

36:03Robert Mays: it has been the last two and a half years jerry goff has played really really good football for the last several years he is not one of those quarterbacks that creates an elite or high-end offense simply by being there this was an offense that relied on the component pieces to be what it's been over the last few years. And they still have plenty of those pieces. But when you start removing them one by one, the dynamic and the complexion of things really does start to change. And it does feel like that's the direction we're headed. Whether they can recapture that, I don't know. John Morton might be incredible.

36:35Robert Mays: They might figure something out here with Graham Glasgow stepping in its center and Tate Ratliff is really good right away. And Christian Mahogany becomes a hit. Their ecosystem and just the overall environment they've created there deserves of the benefit of the doubt but we're really starting to chip away at things here slowly that's i have faith that they'll be fine and not be like a you know it's not going to fall apart in any way it's just i it's hard to see the ceiling anymore and i think you can even um old friend nate tice has done a really good job of of showing like when frank ragno is off the field they're really bad the lions versus when he's on the field i kind of removed it to like okay i took away 2021 because that was a fake season i think as far as evaluating jared goff and stuff.

37:17And I just looked at Jared Goff with Frank Ragnall on the field from 2022 to 2024. When Ragnall is on the field, he is second. He is tied for second in EPA per drop back with Josh Allen. He is like an MVP level quarterback. And when you take him off, he drops to 11th in EPA per play, which again is not bad. But so much of this Lions formula over the past three years has been like, we might be the best offense in football on any given day. And I think when you remove that, you really, really, really either need some of the other young pieces on the offense to step up, or you need this defense to ascend into something truly special, which even that again is going to be hard now that they've lost their defensive coordinator on that side of the ball.

37:56Robert Mays: I think that sort of framing is very good and very informative. If you go from being like the third or fourth best offense in the league to the eighth or 10th best offense in the league, you are still very good, but that's a demonstrable difference. When you're watching those two types of units, you feel it. And especially if that's last year. Yes. That's, that's another good one. And like a team that again, in that general range, like slightly just outside of the top 10, but if you go from feeling like what the Niners have felt like over the last three or four years, which is, I think the lions were in a similar stratosphere to that, to like what the Cardinals have been over the last couple of years, you're still very good, but you feel the gap between those two types of teams and I think which end of that spectrum the Lions end up on is ultimately going to determine a lot about how the next few years are going to go in Detroit and now I just think it's becoming a much more uphill climb to stay on the high end of that range exactly like it's just and like again maybe if they had done something that I thought was going to be an x factor this offseason like if they had not to make the joke but like got to go out and got some sort of X receiver that would have made me feel better about the offense that could change stuff.

39:09But you look at the way that the offense is constructed and it's like, it's mostly going to be a lot of the same contributors unless Tesla is just like insanely good, which for a third round picket, that just feels like you're asking for a lot.

39:20Robert Mays: Yeah. I'm not sure that's going to be the difference maker this year. I think it's more like this year. Yeah. We get the version of Jameer Gibbs. We got in the back half of last year and he becomes like one of the five most electrifying dynamic offensive players in the league. Like to me, it's just little tiny steps and bits of maturation from their in-house guys. And I think that brings me to what the replacement plan is going to look like. Tate Routledge was taking a lot of snaps at center during like rookie mini camp, which I think makes sense. You're cross training guys and you're giving yourself options.

39:48Robert Mays: But the way that it feels right now to me is that Graham Glasgow, who has played some center before in his career, probably makes the most sense is like the 2025 solution. You keep Routledge at guard. you keep mahogany a guard that still gets your best five out there like that's still a good offensive line if the young guys hit but it's just a different class of offensive line than what we've been dealing with the lions over the last like two years that's the thing you're going from two years ago they were like the biggest meanest nastiest interior that you could find and also had penesul uh and now you're going to a group that is going to be effectively a rookie in Christian Mahogany.

40:28I know he played some last year, but like he's really moving into his first full year as a starter. Graham Glasgow, who has been like a nice replacement level player, but in in the way that we've talked about, like Patrick McCary for a long time, where it's like you can get away with starting him, but you're probably always looking for another guy. And then Tate Ratledge, who I think we both liked and really liked that they picked him there. But again, first year offensive lineman who was a second round pick, it's just it's probably not going to be a pro bowler out of the gate the way that they've had some other guys along that interior.

40:56Robert Mays: Just a lot more uncertainty with everything associated with the offense. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that as we try to figure out what the Lions are going to be this year. I'll miss watching Frank Ragnall play like independent of the implications of this. I think just acknowledging and recognizing that we're losing like truly one of the best offensive linemen in the NFL and a guy that at his best was just an absolute badass watch like truly one of the baddest dudes in the league for several years. And now it retires at age 29, just as a football fan. I feel like we're getting robbed of something, but I think that really does tell you how much this had worn on him and how much he felt like he needed to do what was best for him and what was best for his family.

41:41And he just, it's not just that he was very good and with Kelsey out of the picture, probably the best center in the league. it's that centers that big and that strong don't really exist very much like he was kind of unique in that sense and like a lot of centers are usually your undersized guy that's why it's why you kind of want to put guards next to him but rag now being like that 310 315 where he could by himself move people if he needed to just aren't a whole lot of those guys in the league at any given time

42:09Robert Mays: and that's why whatever the replacement plan is it's going to be a tough assignment to be as good as you've been over the last couple of years up front. Sticking in the NFC North here, just getting some contract stuff and just some refreshes on who's upset and who's not and how upset they are. Looking at a couple of guys who are seeking out new deals, Elton Jenkins and Micah Parsons were both at OTAs for their respective teams. So I think that's something that's worth acknowledging. Terry McLaurin has not been. He was somebody who left OTAs early because he's upset with his deal. That one's dynamic wise.

42:42Robert Mays: And in terms of how you're treating your homegrown stars, the fact that you're bringing in Debo, you're paying Debo, you go out, you get a splashy guy in Laramie Tunsil, and now you're not taking care of a guy who played extremely good football for you and is generally considered like one of the best locker room people in the entire league. league that's just something to keep an eye on when we look at these teams that are shifting their aspiration level right like this is a team that it was all gravy last year now you know the disease of more starts to creep in a little bit I'm not even saying that applies to Terry McLaurin but there are just different sorts of things you have to weigh here and it feels like that's kind of what Washington is working through and think about how much shit Terry McLaurin had to put up with until this it's kind of what I mean like it was awful for so many years he was a good soldier And now he has a career year with a good quarterback.

43:34Robert Mays: He looks around the league and is like, look at the deal DK Metcalf just got. I signed mine at the exact same time, the last deal that he signed his. It's probably time for me to get paid here. And so I can understand him being a little bit frustrated by what this offseason has looked like, given all of the shit he's had to eat over the last several seasons. Yeah, he absolutely should be like, it's not only that, but you make the good point of like last year they spent a lot to bring in a lot of guys on defense to like help Dan Quinn stuff and it was a lot of like smaller deals but it was a lot of guys it was it was they just were spending a lot of money um and then this offseason they make the big blockbuster Laramie Tunsil trade the Debo Samuel thing like they have spread out a lot of resources who to guys who are this new regimes guys and their moves which Terry McLaurin for as good as he is and especially as important as he is to the offense he is not this regime's guy like he's he had already been there so like I wonder if there's just like a weird dynamic going on there I don't if I was him I would be pretty pissed off because he is outside of the quarterback obviously pretty clearly the most important player on this offense and for them to be a little bit like you know beating around the bush on trying to get a contract done I think it's a little crazy because he's he's still young too like he's coming off his best year it's just like it's just not a whole lot of it make sense for why you wouldn't pay him.

44:53Robert Mays: Again, if Terry McCormick is in a spot where it's like, you guys want to see what life looks like without me. I'm not sure you want that. I'm not sure you want to live that life based on the current version of the receiving core. And I'm sure he's in a spot. It's like, what else do you want me to do? Right. I had my best season when you finally gave me a quarterback. It's probably time for me to get rewarded for that given what the wide receiver market now looks like. So we'll see how this ends up playing out. But again, I am not surprised necessarily that Terry McLaurin is a little bit frustrated with a lack of movement on that new deal.

45:24Robert Mays: Speaking of frustration, this is a tough one. You guys recorded a show about quarterback battles, you and Sando last week that hit on the Daniel Jones, Anthony Richardson situation. And that was before we got news that Richardson is now out what looks like indefinitely with AC joint soreness and will not be practicing anytime soon. So there's a chance we don't really see him during until training camp and why this is kind of a huge deal is that now we're having a second straight off season where a guy who desperately needs to work and improve is not going to get the opportunity to cleanly do that and so now if i'm a colts fan and i see this it might be somewhat overzealous but i'm kind of going into like full-blown panic mode seeing this and now having him with another spring where he is not going to be getting the work that he so desperately needs.

46:17I because of the injuries, I'm getting pretty close to like this is this is over because you make the good point. It's like it's not just that he's injured. It's that he's a guy who's injured and desperately needs reps. And it's clear that he's not going to get them. And I think at this point, it's pretty fair to say he is just injury prone. And I know that's like such a fickle thing but he's a guy who was dealing with uh injuries all the way back into college like he had had a meniscus tear he had had like a little bit of a hamstring issue he's just it's never like one huge thing with him it's like not tearing an acl or anything but it's just always this and then it's that and the way that he runs he's not very good at the way that we've talked about like kyler murray and lamar jackson they're very good at negating contact and not taking big hits anthony Richardson is the opposite of that where he's very bad at managing his hits and he takes a lot of big hits and he really takes that stuff on and I just for as much as in certain ways he does look like Cam Newton Cam Newton was bulkier like he was a bigger heavier guy and he was able to take more hits than I think that Richardson has and even then Cam still got banged up all the time so I just I think we're getting to a point where unless Richardson dramatically is able to overhaul his health somehow which I just don't know how that's going to happen it's hard to see how he's ever going to get the reps to be the player that he want which sucks because like I still think he's incredibly talented and I still think that there were really good flashes that you would want to hold on to but at a certain point it's like that's that that might be all that we're going to get

47:48Robert Mays: yeah these huge improvements that we've seen from quarterbacks over the last four or five years you know, whether it be Josh Allen or Jalen Hurts, guys who've made real strides. A lot of that stuff has come with pretty deep offseason work and detailed offseason work. Well, you need to do that. And Anthony Richardson for the last couple offseasons has been trying to do that. Like he's working with the same guys and the same trainers as a lot of these quarterbacks have. But if you're hurt each and every offseason when that work should be happening and you need to close the gap probably more than any other quarterback in the league, you can start to see how that plan starts to short circuit a little bit.

48:24Robert Mays: And it feels like we're trending in that direction. And, you know, we don't need to talk about Colts season outlooks here on June 9th, given this, but I think a natural reaction to this and a natural kind of counter would be, well, they have Daniel Jones, you know, they have a stop gap here in a backstop if Richardson doesn't play. But what I keep coming back to with Daniel Jones and the Colts is like, How good does Daniel Jones have to be for this regime to save itself? I'm just not sure what that ultimately looks like. If Daniel Jones is so good that you're a top 12-ish offense with Daniel Jones, I just don't know where that leaves this team.

49:01Robert Mays: Because even if he's good and your offense is solid, and that's the best case scenario where you're still a top 12-ish offense, then you're immediately back into the quarterback wilderness that has plagued this team for the last five years since Andrew Luck retired. And so I just don't know how good that best case scenario even is if this team does can't have Anthony Richardson. Like if he can't play, none of the other outcomes feel pretty good to me. I think that this is obviously going to feel terrible in the moment. But like if Anthony Richards can't really go, it would almost be better for the long term health of the Colts if Daniel Jones was just bad.

49:39and like they just but then everybody gets fired well well but that that's what i was going to say is like everybody gets fired but like for the long-term health of the organization that's probably better it's just obviously going to feel bad for the people that are in the building but like i don't like if richardson can't go kind of to your point there aren't that many high-end scenarios where jones plays well enough and they don't get fired anyway like it's just

50:02Robert Mays: it becomes a very sticky situation yeah there's there's very little that's good on the other side of Anthony Richardson not working out. And I think we probably knew that, right? And as soon as you made that pick, you were essentially tying your fate to how the Anthony Richardson experiment was going to go. And it hasn't gone well so far. And I definitely don't think this is pointing to it going any better. The fact that he can't practice and it's already, it's only June. It just feels so bad that like, I really do think if he was the guy who was able to get consistent reps that he could have figured this out.

50:37But we've just his entire NFL career, it's been him trying to get off the ground because it's one setback and then it's another and then it's another. And like if you only have like these six week chunks at any given time where you're trying to figure stuff out, it's like, OK, you can learn all this stuff. And then, OK, I'm off the field for another three, four weeks or I'm off the field for the rest of the season. It's like, how are you ever supposed to get consistent experience? And so it's it's unfortunate. I did. I really did like this player, but we're getting to the point where it's hard to see the rosy outlook.

51:08Robert Mays: And listen, maybe he comes back in camp and he feels 100 percent and this ultimately turns around. But I just think this is a pretty dark cloud to already have emerged over your offseason if you were the Indianapolis Colts. Last, you know, bigger sort of news item here was the Bryce Huff trade. Bryce Huff being traded to the Niners for a 2026 mid round pick. If you look at the cap implications of it, there was an option bonus that the Eagles ultimately did not pick up. So it transitioned to a base salary. They converted like$9 million of that to a signing bonus to spread out some of the money.

51:40Robert Mays: They're really saving like$7 million in cash. If you're the Eagles, there aren't a lot of cap elements to this. The Niners are paying the other seven and a half or so million of his base salary. So that's the other monetary thing to keep in mind here. I think it makes sense for both teams. Like the Niners taking a swing on this and now having a third pass rusher you can bring michael williams along a little bit slower in pure pass rush situations only paying seven and a half million dollars to do that and the eagle is just saving the cash admitting that they made a mistake in the way that they're quick to do often i think for both teams this makes a lot of sense given the current makeup of their rosters and what last season looked like yeah the niners needed anybody and like huff does make sense for a number of reasons one i think he's just a much different body than michael williams which i think is cool and then obviously he the only season that bryce huff was like a super impact player that 10 sack season a couple years ago was with robert sala so there's a degree of like comfort there i think with him potentially and sala is going to know how to use him and how to unlock him and then schematically he's back in a spot that he's more comfortable with like this is just a defense in a scheme where you're now a 4-3 defensive end again you're going to play in pure pass rush situations and we're paying you like a situational player and what you probably should have been from the beginning like he was fine on a great basis last year for the eagles he just didn't play a lot because i think there were serious concerns about what his limitations were and he had like a risk thing that he was dealing with a little bit last year so like if he can just be a little bit healthier and he doesn't even for this to be a successful signing for the niners he doesn't even have to be a 10 sack guy again if he can be like a six sack guy and just be like get the pressures on those third downs that is completely acceptable it's really all that he needs to be and i think if I was reading it correctly I think pretty sure they can move on from him after this year if they want to for like literally nothing so like if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out then who cares like you didn't even really give up that much for it um unless you really really value that kind of mid-round pick which I think where the Niners are at not a big deal and we don't even know what mid-round pick means like that could be a fourth round pick that could be a fifth round pick I have no idea what mid-round pick is either way I feel like this is probably worth doing if you're both of these teams exactly and the Niners just spent what four picks on their front anyway like I'm sure they'll be okay missing one of those for next year and again I think that when you look at what Michael Williams is and what he profiles to be as a rookie I feel like he's going to be somebody that can immediately contribute on early downs like that is his selling point for the high floor version of his rookie season and I think the pass rush bag is probably going to take a little longer to develop and having a guy like Bryce Huff, who is the inverse of that, where you can situationally use him and not even have Michael Williams on the field for some of those early third downs as he develops that part of his game.

54:23Robert Mays: I actually think that's a decent outcome for this version of the Niners front. Or now we could just put Michael Williams over a guard and say, Hey man, go through that guy's chest. Like, don't even think about it. No. Oh, do I have to go outside inside? Nope. Just go through that guy's chest. We'll be okay. Yes. You're putting him in spots where he's going to be positioned to succeed and not have to work through some of those struggles because you have somebody like Bryce Hoffman. That's something that I can get behind. We're going to take one more quick break here and then come back with a few rapid fire news bits before we get out of here.

54:53This episode is brought to you by Onnit. You know those days where your schedule is packed to the brim? You're jumping straight from managing work deadlines to squeezing in a workout, running family errands, and trying to handle a million things all at once? When you're deeply engaged in a busy day, staying in that zone can make all the difference. That's where Onnit's AlphaBrain comes in as a daily nootropic formula designed for daily cognitive support. It supports cognition, memory, attention, focus, and mental clarity while you're tackling your daily tasks. It supports AlphaBrain wave activity, helping you tune out distractions, get into the zone, and support that optimal flow state when you're deeply immersed in an activity.

55:30It supports quicker reaction times and relaxes and supports alpha wave activity during normal, occasional stress. If you're ready to support your concentration and focus throughout your demanding days, check them out. Shop now at onnit.com. O-N-N-I-T dot com. So me and my family, we live in the suburbs of Chicago. And one thing I love about the cluster of suburbs where we live is that while there are a lot of similarities among them, there are also enough differences to make each one feel unique. And those differences are largely driven by the small businesses that inhabit those towns. Whether you are in one, another, the one over there, they each have enough of their own flair to make them all feel unique while they're all right on top of one another as well.

56:16Being able to shop at those small businesses, pour into the suburb that we live in, but also pour into our neighbors as well, it really just feels good and makes it feel even more special being at home. With FAIR, it's easy for independent retailers to stock products from over 100 ,000 unique brands worldwide. It's perfect for planning inventory for the holiday season. We were just in one of those small businesses I was talking about a couple of days ago looking for a birthday gift for one of my daughter's friends. She's turning six. And so it was great to go into this toy store and be able to find so many different things from big retailers while still supporting this small business in our town.

56:51By connecting retailers with over 100 ,000 unique brands, FAIR gives small and local businesses a platform to thrive. They've got curated wholesale products for home, apparel, beauty, food, and more. Fair reduces the risk of testing new products with analytics and free returns on first orders with every brand. So far, Fair has given more than 700 ,000 retailers access to over 100 ,000 brands. Sign up today and get 50 % off your first wholesale order up to$100 at fai.com slash taffs. That's fai.com slash taffs. Terms may apply.

57:30Soft, cushy, plush, cozy. Soft, smooth, buttery, marshmallowy, warm. Soft. Socks, underwear, tees, and more. Bombas. Everyday comfort worth obsessing over. Visit bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash audio. One purchase equals one donated. Always.

58:06Robert Mays: We've got like five or six more of these. We can work through them pretty quickly. I think they're just worth acknowledging because they were news to me as I was looking back through things today. And I'm sure for some people not following the day-to-day news of the NFL, some of them might've slipped through the cracks. This one happened, I believe, yesterday, but Nick Chubb headed to the Texans. We have not seen the numbers on this, which make me think they're probably pretty small. It's a tough situation just because he was coming off of such a devastating injury last year. He did not look very good.

58:34Robert Mays: The hope is with a little bit more time removed from that injury, we can get something closer to the old version of Nick Chubb. But as he creeps toward 30 and what we got from him the last time we saw him, I think there's a reason he was still available at this point in the calendar. And I think there's a reason that we haven't seen what the numbers on a deal like this look like. It's the number. The fact that we haven't really seen the numbers makes me think it's low, which makes me think that this is a he's in a pretty tough spot recovery wise and not that like the recovery is going poorly just like he might not have the juice that he had and it's funny you can kind of look at it one to two ways it's like okay well he's come back from a major injury before and been the best running back in the league for a little bit but kind of like you said now he's getting closer to 30 this is already something that he's dealt with before like it's just running backs don't really come back from stuff this late in their career so So I would love if he did, because I think what their Texans are trying to do on offense with a player like Nick Chubb could be awesome.

59:31I just I just don't know how much we're going to get from him.

59:35Robert Mays: Sticking in the old NFC or the old AFC North Rashad Bateman gets an extension from the Baltimore Ravens. A deal that I think looks very palatable, given what Rashad Bateman has been over the last couple of years and given the rest of the receiver market. three years, about 37 million,$20 million guaranteed. If you look at AAV, it comes in just ahead of Darius Slayton and his deal that he signed this off season, a little over 12 million a year, 28th overall in AAV among receivers. And it's just behind both the Darius Slayton deal and the Alan Lazard contract a couple of years ago in guaranteed money.

1:00:12Robert Mays: And based on what Rashad Bateman has been for the Ravens over the last couple of years, I think you can feel pretty good about this if you're Baltimore I think you definitely should and like I know he's had a rocky tenure there and especially for a long time his chemistry with Lamar Jackson was bafflingly bad but I do think last year like genuinely it started to come along it was a little bit better in the red zone and then I think what really stood out to me was late in downs their chemistry was better like it just never seemed like Jackson wanted to throw to him down the field especially late in the down at any other point in their career and then finally this year I don't know if it was extra work in the offseason I don't know if they had a long heart to heart whatever it was they really finally clicked to this year and uh for them to get him at the money that yeah if you can get him for Darius Slayton money for a guy who's going to be your receiver too you should absolutely do that I also think it's important because Rashad Bateman we've talked about this a lot is just a very different player than I anticipated him being coming into the league but him being more of that downfield target for the Ravens is important because they don't really have another one.

1:01:15Robert Mays: Like that's what he is in the overall formula of the offense. And so he becomes very important to make all the pieces fit together. And the last thing I'll mention here, just like an efficiency basis, I wanted to read off this list for players with at least 70 targets last year. Here are the leaders in the NFL and EPA per target per true media. I'm on Ross St. Brown was number one. Devante Smith was number two. Rashad Bateman was number three. This is among receivers. A.J. Brown, Terry McLaurin, Ladd McConkie, Puka Nakua, Jaden Reed, T. Higgins, Jamar Chase. So on a per target basis last year, Rashad Bateman among receivers with at least 70 targets, only Amon Ross St.

1:01:56Robert Mays: Brown and Devontae Smith ranked ahead of him. So he was an incredibly efficient player. And anecdotally, that makes sense. Like when you think about Rashad Bateman's 2025 season, there were a lot of big time plays involved in that year. And honestly, if that's all he can be. Whereas like, we know what Mark Andrews is going to be on a given snap. And if Hopkins can just be like some degree of stabilizing force for them. And then you just get a handful of big plays from guys like Zay flowers and Bateman where we're going to be a, okay, next year, it's going to be a fun group to watch this year with Hopkins because apparently he's looked good, you know, in off season workouts and they're not paying him a lot.

1:02:29Robert Mays: They're not really relying on him to be a huge part of the offense, but I think skillset wise and what he can still do, it does make sense given some of the other pieces, but for that all to come together, Rashad Bateman needs to be part of it. So to see him get rewarded, not surprising, but I do think that's a pretty decent price given what some other guys in that general range of the receiver market have been taking home this off season. Johnnie Smith sounds like the Dolphins are hoping to hang on to him. There was some trade chatter. He's a little bit unhappy with his deal. I know the Steelers are potentially in the market for a pass catcher.

1:03:00Robert Mays: They were sniffing around, which is hilarious and probably the least surprising thing of all time. The fact that Arthur Smith was trying to get Johnnie Smith again. Drew Rosenhouse came out and said that Smith wants to stay in Miami. So I think just two things worth paying attention to here, like what the resolution is between Smith and the dolphins, if there is one and where the Steelers ultimately get their other pass catcher, because after the George Pickens trade, and even before the George Pickens trade, given the types of receivers they had, they need to do something to make good on a one year run with Aaron Rogers.

1:03:30Robert Mays: And I don't think that's going to, I don't think you can say that based on the guys they currently have in the building in Pittsburgh. no I don't think so like that's definitely not gonna happen it would be very funny if I know a lot of the young receivers uh in Green Bay didn't actually play with Aaron Rodgers because he's he's been gone for a while but it would be very funny if that they were trading for a you know a third a former third round pick uh from Green Bay to go pay with Aaron Rodgers again where like the whole bit was that he never played with first rounders in Green Bay I think would be very funny um but as far as Johnny Smith goes I actually don't think he'll get moved I think this is just one of those things like he was coming off of a very good season that I'm sure that he probably didn't anticipate.

1:04:07And let's try to see if he get a little bit more money for that.

1:04:11Robert Mays: Next one here. This is one that I just hadn't seen. And so I figured we would just talk about it briefly because we mentioned it on draft night, like how this was ultimately going to shake out with these saints taking Calvin Banks. It sounds like New Orleans is planning on moving Trevor Penning to guard and having Fulagam move over to right tackle and have Banks play left tackle, that feels like a reasonable solution to me, given the guys they have on the roster and giving what that other starting guard spot would have looked like, where I believe Dylan Radins would be penciled into play there if it wasn't Trevor Penning or one of those tackles.

1:04:43Robert Mays: So I could easily get behind this gives Penning like another shot for things to work out. And if it does and you get real play out of those other two tackles, that suddenly becomes a pretty young, pretty intriguing group for the Saints up front. yeah I I like this pairing of what they're doing here because not only does it it keeps banks at left tackle which like that just makes things simpler for everybody simpler for the rookie you move Fuaga back to right tackle which is what he played in college and even though he played admirably on the left side last year he'll probably be better on the right side I mean that's just usually how that stuff goes and then please not why does it make sense for him like it's that part of it I think totally tracks to me he's just a killer like he's he gets hands on you and it's over and so that's yeah exactly putting him at right tackle I think makes a ton of sense and then penning his whole issue was he's actually a pretty functional run blocker especially again when he can just get hands on guys and move them he's just not great in space I think he's a little bit clunky and then in pass protection he was all over okay well at guard theoretically we can hide some of that stuff a little bit better and again you don't know how well that's going to work but if he can go from just not being a good tackle to being even a replacement level perfectly fine guard that's like a win for all three spots here.

1:05:52And I'd be pretty excited about that.

1:05:54Robert Mays: A couple more here. We don't have to spend a ton of time on this. I just love the, my fact that Mike McDonald was asked if Sam Darnold was going to be the starting quarterback this year. And if there was any scenario where he wouldn't be, and it's like, his response is so great. She's like, I understand that you guys have to ask this. Like it's the job. It's a crazy question. And because it is a crazy question, like even if you're not a hundred percent sold on the Sam Darnold experiment in Seattle, what the Seahawks paid Sam Darnold and where they drafted Jalen Milrow. Sam Darnold is going to be the starting quarterback for the 2025 Seattle Seahawks.

1:06:26Robert Mays: I think we can all agree on that, even if we want a little bit more drama associated with how that's going to unfold. Yeah, even for as much as I like didn't love that move, we would need like a bottom fifth percentile outcome for the Darnold thing in camp and a top like 95th percentile from Jalen Milrow own camp for there to be even a discussion. So it's, yeah, it's not happening. Yeah. This is not a Russell Wilson, Matt Flynn sort of scenario. The, the payments and the dynamics of this are still very different than a situation like that. Two injury things to hit before we get out of here, because I do think that they're meaningful based on what these teams are hoping to get from these guys this year.

1:07:06Robert Mays: Ricky Pierce saw reportedly out until training camp with a hamstring injury. And And why this matters is because they're really relying on him this year in a post-Debo Samuel world in San Francisco. And now we have two off seasons in a row where he's really not going to be able to practice as much as you want a young player to practice. Obviously last summer, like there's nothing you can do about that. Like he gets shot in a freak accident and misses time. But now you have a rookie season that was disrupted by something and you have a second year where some of that work in the off season is going to be disrupted.

1:07:38Robert Mays: And that's just something that's worth keeping an eye on when we start talking about expectations for the Niners, how this is all going to go. Because remember last year, so much of it was disrupted, whether it was CMC being hurt, Brandon Ayuk with the holdout. So this being a note that the 49ers offseason is starting on again, when they're going to have to rely on Pearsall in a pretty huge way, I think is at least somewhat notable. It is. And it's not just that he's replacing the snaps that they're losing from Debo Samuel. it's that he is the pivot point for them I think wanting to be a little bit more of a drop back team a little bit more of a throw down the field team and obviously they went maybe a little bit overboard early last season and how that looked but I really do think Pearsall is supposed to allow Brock Purdy to do a little bit more of the intermediate deep drop back stuff that he wants to do and that Shanahan I think clearly thinks he can do and so the fact that his development this year might be a little bit slowed I do think is troubling especially with Brandon Ayuk still kind of up in the air in terms of what we're going to get from him early on.

1:08:37Robert Mays: Talk about guys being hurt and staying hurt. Joey Bosa also dinged up, hurt a calf during OTA workouts. He is going to be out till training camp. And this is another one where it was going to be hard to rely on him to stay healthy for long stretches at this point in his career, based on how the last few seasons have went. But they're going to need him. Like if the bills are going to be what we want the bills to be, other than like a shocking breakout season from somebody like Landon Jackson or one of the other rookies, like what they pay Joey Bosa and what he looks like in the overall plan they have on defense.

1:09:10Robert Mays: They need really good play by Joey Bosa by the end of this season. So the fact that it's June and we're already talking about him being hurt, things could easily get better, but not the way you want to start things with this, with this new pairing of him being in Buffalo. Yeah. And I like that you said by the end, because thankfully for them, that is really all that's going to matter having Josh Allen having Sean McDermott having enough other bodies in the front like they'll be okay through December 20th after that point it's like if Joe if Joey Bosa isn't healthy or if he hasn't had much like he's you would obviously want him to have some playing time before then too just so he stays warm and he's ready and he has NFL reps this year like it just you would hope that he's he's able to at least play like a handful of games and they'll probably keep him on a pitch count I would assume because they have enough bodies there but like the fact that you can't even get him into August on the pitch count is a little bit worrisome, but that's kind of, that's exactly what I'm going to be.

1:10:05Robert Mays: Like how much does this matter if he ends up being healthy there in a season? Not much, but the fact that we can't even get through OTAs without him having to deal with something, not the way that you want to start. All right. That is all we've got for today. We will be back with another mailbag tomorrow. Wanted to tweak things just because of, you know, what the schedule looks like with me getting back and not being around when we typically record the mailbag. So we're going to be recording the mailbag for Wednesday this week. And then we're going to be back with another one on our regularly scheduled time next Monday.

1:10:35Robert Mays: So just something to look out for and programming. Nope. We're back to four shows a week. I'm back. We're going to be back throughout the entire off season. So that's something that you guys can look forward to this week. We have things pushed back a day, but for the most part, it's going to be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, all the way through the off season. You know, we'll talk about things as we get a little bit closer to training camp and I'm on the road, things of that nature. but for at least the next month or so, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, that is going to be our cadence here on the athletic football show.

1:11:05Robert Mays: Very happy to be back. Very happy and grateful to everyone who filled in for me while I was gone. We will talk to you guys very soon. Thanks for listening.

1:11:27I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody listen up. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade-in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us.

1:11:51Robert Mays: Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. additional terms apply for all offers. Nobody wakes up thinking, I really hope I get to talk to some AI today. They want their flight changed, their bill fixed, their problem solved. That's the point of Parloa. Our AI voice agents make customer conversations feel natural, personal, and helpful. Because when AI works, the customer shouldn't be thinking about AI. They should be thinking, well, that was easy. Parloa, AI agents, real conversations.

1:12:21Hear the difference at Parloa, P-A-R-L-O-A dot com.

1:12:25Robert Mays: Some days, getting the work done isn't the problem. Staying locked in is. AlphaBrain is Onnit's daily nootropic formula for cognitive support, designed to support memory, focus, attention, and mental clarity. Its formula with science-driven ingredients include theanine and huperzine A to support focus and memory, and it's caffeine-free. So when you're deep in the work, AlphaBrain helps support enhanced productivity and tune-out distractions. Get focused on what matters. Shop Alphabrain now at onnit.com.