Are Colin Simmons and Charlie Becker locks for the first round?

0:00A perfect crime film, says the Daily Beast. John Turturro gives a career-best performance. Sony Pictures Classics proudly presents the acclaimed new thriller, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Turturro stars as an aging master pickpocket whose latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family. Also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslany, Will Price, and Steve Buscemi. See the film that the LA Times calls instantly classic. Opens October 23rd in New York and Los Angeles. Nationwide October 30th. Hey, I'm Max Brown. You know The Athletic is home to the world's best sports journalism, but this fall, just in time for football season, we're launching something unlike anything we've ever done.

0:48We're building a daily show streaming live on YouTube. Me, Kofi Yoboa, Charles McDonald, and the Athletic's own Zach Harper and Daniel Popper. We'll be hosting live watch-alongs of the biggest games with award-winning analysis and behind-the-scenes insights from athletic insiders. On off days, we'll go deeper into the hard-hitting stories you can't get enough of. And we want you, the smartest fans in sports, to be part of it. Come drop questions in the chat and we'll bring the answers straight from the source. The Athletic Live, presented by Google Gemini. Follow us on YouTube and we'll see you in the chat.

1:50no one else is doing. Their approach is Tech in Steps. Tech in Steps works by providing safer phones and watches for kids with no social media, tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for tweens and teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence. Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected without social media. Right now, Use our code to get the best deal on a kid's phone that will make parenting easier and give you more peace of mind.

2:25Visit gab.com slash football show and use code football show for an exclusive offer. That's Gab G-A-B-B. This episode of the Athletic Football Show is brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. Welcome to an all new episode of Building the Beast. I am Dave Hellman. We've got a great show for you all today. Dane Brugler and myself were joined by a very special guest, Max Brown of The Athletic Live, and also former USC and Pitt quarterback, joined us for an in-depth conversation about the 2027 quarterback class. Yes, that includes a detailed dive on the problems with Arch Manning, as well as a host of other prospects.

3:08Got to plenty more. Loaded show with Dane and Max. Let's get right to it.

3:22Well, Dane, I'm excited for every episode we do, but I'm particularly excited for today because I love you, man, but it's just you and me a lot of the time. And I'm always wary of like creating an echo chamber between the two of us. And so I think halfway through the college season, what better time to introduce a new voice, a new perspective. and we've got a hell of a good one today as we are being joined by co-host of the athletic live espn acc college football analyst max brown how you doing man good to talk to you good to have you on it's great to be here what's up fellas thanks for letting me uh hang out with you and breaking up the uh the duo adding a trio today yeah this is exciting because especially when it comes to quarterbacks uh obviously you've got a lot of great perspective to add and so So very interested to see where this conversation, how far we're going to go with this.

4:19We would be talking about quarterbacks anyway, coming out of the weekend that we had, but it would be a whiff on our part not to bring Max into a quarterback conversation. Obviously played college football at a high level, highly touted quarterback recruit. And so what better place to start this? And look, Dane, I'll tell you the same thing I said in our production meeting. I don't want building the beast to become the weekly Arch Manning referendum. That's not, that's not what we're here to do. And so we're going to have this conversation and maybe we can leave it here for a little while after this, because we want to talk about as many prospects as possible, but we went into the weekend saying it's been dicey.

5:06It hasn't all been bad. Arch Manning has a home game against a bad defense to get right. Let's see what it looks like. it didn't look great, Dane. And so I think it's only fair that we start this show with an Arch Manning conversation. Texas loses to Florida. They were up 17-3 at one point in this game. And let's just go through it, man. Another tough loss, another tough performance for Arch Manning. What do you think went wrong in this game against Florida? Yeah, I mean, going back and watching the tape, by far Arch's most inconsistent game, in my opinion. And I'll say this again. Texas has an offensive problem more than only a quarterback problem because the offensive line has played terrible.

5:51Trevor Goosby doesn't look like a first round pick. Melvin Ciani at right tackle played his worst game of the season versus the Gators. The interior looks poorly coached. So and then I think you have to factor in the play calling, which leaves more questions than answers. And the lack of development with Arches decision making, to me, that's the major factor here. And it just looks like he's second guessing himself a lot from the pocket. He's playing more methodical than he is loose. And frankly, it's holding him back. It's holding the team back. And so I think if we just go back to the game for specifics, the final play of the game for Manning is a really good example of that, where it's second and eight.

6:34It's right before the two-minute warning, so they have plenty of time. It's ace formation, two-by-two set. Manning has to hit the shallow out route, especially with no flat defender. Florida's playing over the top, and just to prevent that big play, because I think it was a three-point game. I think it was 27-24 at that point. And so the completion was there. Maybe the first down, you have to take it. But instead, Manning turns it down, gets sacked, fumbles, and that's the ballgame. So, Max, I'd be interested to hear your perspective, especially as someone who knows Sark very well. When I watch the tape, I see a progression-based offense where each reads tied to the feet.

7:15You know, back foot hits top of the drop. That's, you know, ball out first read. Okay, it's not there. Hitch, second read, so on, so on. It just feels like Arch is maybe, I don't know, he's stalled in terms of his development, in terms of decisiveness to understand what's open, what's not, when to be conservative, when to be aggressive. And then when keeping his feet, his eyes, his mind on the same page, it's just it looks like it's a struggle out there for him. So just that methodical nature of his decision making, not wanting to make a mistake. I don't know. What are you seeing when you're watching Arch?

7:48A lot of what you just said, I like that methodical point because I came away with the same takeaway of it feels like his clock is just late, but not in the sense of usually when you say that it's, you know, it's a younger quarterback that he's wanting to see the progression open and see the route open. with arch when i watch it it's more of like i can't even tell what he's processing or where he's looking or he'll start on the left and come back to the right and like you know context clues having played the position and having played for sark in my college career like you can you know you you you can educate guests where he's supposed to go but it's just it's confusing watching what watching arch there and yeah like you said i don't want to make a career either on uh on on fashion arch, but that is an ugly watch there in that Florida game.

8:33It's like, take the NFL prospect lens out. To me, that's just poor from just a collegiate quarterback lens in terms of, you mentioned the out route there on that second and eight. I think there's a couple out routes in that game. And the reason I focus on that is you can tell Sark is seeing something and Sark is trying to get to something in that game with a matchup they like and Arch missed both those. And then there's other concepts where I felt like, hey, there's easy completions to have. Just get the ball to your hands. You mentioned that methodical nature. Hey, one, two, three, ball out, get into the flat.

9:08That arch is missing. And so to me, it's not a play calling issue at all. It's a arch and then the talent. I agree with you on the offensive line standpoint. To me, there's yards to be had. And I even go back to, you know, this is now Sark had to bench Quinn Ewers. you know the last go-round and when I compare the play between these two guys like Quinn Lures never got to this point in terms of passing up open yardage which is obviously concerning when not that long ago we were talking about Arches you know a top end of a first round kind of guy I mean it speaks to the situation at Texas that what was it a week or so ago that Sark said if his name wasn't Manning we'd be praising the way that he's playing but since there's so much hype and recognition with him.

9:56That's not the case. And then Pete Thamel had the report this week that Arch's backup is going to see an uptick in practice snaps. So, I mean, I don't think it's stepping out on a limb too much to say that there is uncertainty and some mixed messaging and probably even a little bit of panic going on at Texas. At least that's my read on it, just based on what we're seeing from the outside and obviously the way arch is playing just in general. I mean, you guys didn't bring it up, but Max, I watched your, your breakdown on your YouTube channel. I am nothing if not thorough. The turn down on the seam ball that turned into the late screen attempt that just flew out of bounds was it's, I think it's the most frustrating.

10:45I've frustrated. I've been watching arch this year where he had a guy flash wide open for a touchdown okay you don't want to throw it fine but then he just sort of hitches and waits to throw this ball down to the line of scrimmage that just it's so late and that it's so consistent watching him where he just looks like he doesn't want to throw the football and it's maddening to watch and the reference I made on that play was a Randy Johnson 100 mile an hour pitch out and you're coincidentally rocking the Mariners Mariners brim as we that's a great point but I know we know of X's and O's, but just to unpack that a little bit, you know, one thing I like that Sark did do is in that game, and you see with play callers around college football is when your quarterback's struggling, divide the field in half and don't ask him to process one side of the field.

11:32So then his eyes have to go only to one area. And that progression right there, it's, it's, it's in the first drive of the game. So the negative snowball effect hadn't accumulated for Arch. And it's a, you know, seam route to an outside go ball, like one, two right there, down to the check down really blown into the flat misses a wide open seam ball like right away which that's the first read which then again not to belabor the point but like not sure where his eyes are going but then the more concerning point is like when he resets his base hey check the ball down yes it's a contested check down it's not the cleanest thing but it shouldn't be the inaccurate you know ball way over the receiver's head so you know concern in the progression standpoint but then also concern on the accuracy standpoint, which I know was, you know, that was my big question going into this season is, hey, would some of that stuff for arch clean up from an accuracy footwork, tying your feet to your eyes and your upper body and all that.

12:27And so that one play kind of both concerns the 2026 version and the 2025 version come out. Yeah. And I think that's the concerning part with this is just the lack of progression where, okay, you're fourth year in the program. This is the season where it was supposed to take off. And, I mean, going back to the summer and watching his 2025 tape, I mean, I had no problem in putting him at quarterback one based on what he showed the last eight games of the year. It was like, okay, this guy is, we look at the pocket movement, you look at some of the anticipation he showed as a passer, The mobility was such an asset for him last year, and it still is this year.

13:09But there was so much to the foundational traits of, okay, if he builds on this, this is going to look really good next season. But the mental development just hasn't been there. So it's really tough to have any type of conviction. I think about just bringing it back to the NFL draft part of this is, you know, I don't, I don't know how you could have any conviction that he is a first round pick, or it just feels like there's a big TBD next to his name, because I think, you know, you have to figure out, has he just reached his ceiling as a quarterback? Is there more the coaching staff can be doing from a preparation standpoint, from, you know, whatever they need to do to, you know, the schedule, You look at the schedule.

13:56We've got Ole Miss coming up. LSU's coming up. There's plenty of tough games, A &M, that, you know, Texas, they should be feeling the pressure right now. I mean, right now they're on the outside looking in to this playoff picture. So there's plenty they have to get right and not a lot of time to make all these fixes. Let me ask you all this. And, Max, I'd love your perspective. Not to absolve Arch completely. Like, there's some questionable decision-making. can argue how well he's seeing things, but so much of it to me feels like confidence. Like he just feels like a guy who doesn't have confidence in himself or what he's seeing.

14:35And we just brought it up. There are so many plays where it's like, just throw it, man. Just throw it. It's there. It's open. It's not in a lot of cases, it's not even a particularly difficult throw. How do you go about fixing that? Can it be fixed? Yeah. Yeah, and a lot of it to me is not even, you know, hey, do this extra drill on the field or, hey, you know, we got to re-coach the smash concept. To me, it's more of just confidence as a human being putting on your pads, going out in the field. So, like, what is Sark and the quarterback coach saying outside of the X's and O's to try to get Arch back to himself?

15:14I do think it is fixable because we've seen it. We've seen Arch in the month of November last year play at that high level. So we know it's there. The traits are very clear. That's why everyone's been so excited about Arch, you know, before he even started at Texas. But then also from an NFL draft lens, relative to the other prospects, his ceiling's probably higher than a lot of those, you know, tier one, tier two guys because of those traits that he has. What will be interesting for me to see is if I'm Steve Sarkeesian right now this week, I am creating a playbook that is much more simple. That I'm not asking Arch to process as much.

15:55I'm not asking him to play quarterback in the true, you know, traditional pocket passer Steve Sarkeesian ways. I'm intentionally dumbing it down for lack of a better term. that might bring more success for arch in the short term but then from an nfl draft lens that'll be a criticism for arch is like hey can he process did he have to have art scale things back and then even looking into the future like not necessarily to go down this rabbit hole but if if texas is not the ultimate landing spot for arch looking into the future you know if i'm arch in his camp i want to go to an offense that doesn't force me to think as much because that'll make me a better college quarterback but ultimately he's going to have to address that processing question at some point and so if he can't operate in this offense man that gives me immense concern for how he projects towards the uh towards the nfl so that leads to my next question dane and ironically it was the florida game last year that felt like rock bottom for arch manning and he turned it around after that and looked like a much better player in the back half of the year So I don't want to close the book on this season entirely.

17:04But if we don't get that sort of turnaround over these six games, like if it just looks like more of the same where I can pull up three outstanding plays per game, but the total picture is not that impressive. It sounds to me like we're talking about a situation where Arch Manning might be going back to school. And if he does. It's hard for me to believe it's going to be at Texas. I mean, maybe that's a little bit reckless, but given the expectation, given everything that's happened during his time there, if it works out that way or, you know, God forbid, it gets worse. That just feels like the type of thing that happens in this day and age.

17:43Or do you think I'm getting ahead of myself? No, I mean, it's fair to bring up. No question. Obviously, like you said, there's a lot of football to be played. So what happens the next month and a half will ultimately dictate what happens in January when he's going to have to make a decision, NFL or not? Am I staying in Austin or not? But yeah, to piggyback on kind of what Max was saying, one of my criticism of this offense this season has been just the lack of easy buttons. and just wanting to see more ways that it just felt like there was a lot of all or nothing. But at the same time, okay, that's a criticism if you have to give him easy buttons in order for him to operate the offense.

18:31And so it's a double-edged sword there. And I don't know. I'm just talking to scouts about him who have been through Austin, talked to the coaches, talked to other players. I mean, they say Arch is really, really smart. And something that, not specific to Arch, but just that I've heard evaluators talk about before, is there's a difference between being book smart and then being a Jeopardy champion. Where, you know, you can sit down with Arch and go over, you know, watch film, and he'll tell you exactly what the defense is doing and what he needs to do. But when the bullets are flying and you're in the midst of it, that's where you need that Jeopardy champion.

19:08And the, okay, quick-minded ability to find the solutions to the problems. and that's easier said than done. So yeah, I think that there's so much to unpack here that we're not going to fully answer right here on this podcast. But I do think that in terms of him as a prospect, there are, like I said, there's a TBD next to his name right now. There's more questions than we have answers at this point. I think that in itself is an answer for the record. Not to, again, not to close the book on Arch, but this is a guy that a lot of people saw as QB1 entering the season, and we were waiting for him to kind of take ownership of it.

19:46And not just media, by the way. I mean, I think that's important to say. Like, this is fair. Teams are very, very optimistic in August coming into the year about Arch Manning. This isn't a media creation. This isn't the way that he finished last year. And, okay, I think we'd be naive if we said the last name had nothing to do with it. But at the same time, he put a lot on film last year that you could point to and say, okay, if he builds on that, we've got the pocket movement. There's so much that he did at a high level to finish last season that it built that optimism up, not just in media, but also within NFL buildings.

20:24I think that's important to point out. I'll say the same thing I said last week. If you watch him play and don't see it at all, you're not looking hard enough. The fourth and sixth that he had in this Florida game, the 60-something-yard throw to get them back in the game, it's incredible the the talent is undeniable and now we are officially at the point where we can say all right it hasn't shown up nearly consistently enough for us to feel good about this anymore and now like that is a valid statement now real quick like that throw is kind of an example of he didn't have to do any thinking because he was in you know fight or flight mode where he moves, you know, off platform a little bit.

21:07And instead of thinking, it's just playing. And I think that goes back to some of the roadblocks here with Manning, where when he has to think too much, he overthinks and it's just everything gets off. The timing's off, his execution's off. But when he can play a little bit of backyard football where he's just moving and playing based on instinct, it looks a lot better. And so trying to unpack that and figure out, OK, how do we reverse engineer this to make this more of your game? It's just it's part of the issue with Manning. I think that's a solid place to leave it for the time being. I think you sort of answered it right here, Dane, in the fact that it's not an answer.

21:54And if it's a TBD halfway through the year with the amount of anticipation, I mean, that is undoubtedly a disappointment. It doesn't mean that Arch Manning can't get this thing back on the road, but it's not what we were hoping for. It's not what we were expecting. And I'm going to leave it here for the time being and see, you know, two, three weeks from now, has it gotten worse? A month from now, are we excited again? I don't know, but we can definitively say at this point that uncertainty about Arch Manning two-thirds of the way through October is not where anybody was hoping we would be. So with that, we can put the Arch Manning conversation aside for a while, but we would be remiss if we didn't get Max Brown's thoughts on some more members of this quarterback class.

22:38We'll do that right after a break. The NBA season is here. When you turn on the games, turn on The Athletic Live on YouTube. Become part of the show in the interactive chat along with hosts Zach Harper, Kofi Yeboah, and the Athletic Slam Dunk NBA staff. The Athletic Live is presented by Google Gemini. Check it out now and subscribe on YouTube. Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase.

23:11Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions may apply. I have a five-year-old and a three-year-old. I work, my wife works, and so what does that mean? It means that we have four people who live in the house who are often in four different places during the day. So when we all come back home after we're done with school, after we're done with work, dinner, it can be, you know, kind of tricky. Maybe not exactly the thing that anyone is jumping to immediately go and do.

23:43And so anything we can do to make that process simpler, easier, require less work while also being delicious and healthy. Well, that is something that we are absolutely into. ButcherBox delivers 100 % grass-fed beef, organic chicken, wild-caught seafood, and more, all sourced to standards they can actually tell you about. They've already done the research and made the tough sourcing decisions, so all you have to do is decide what's for dinner. It's a little like having the neighborhood butcher everyone wishes they still had, someone who's incredibly particular about quality and sourcing so you don't have to be.

24:16Every box is customizable, so you can choose the cuts and proteins that fit your routine. Whether you're grilling out for friends, feeding the family on a Tuesday, or just trying to avoid another expensive takeout order, you've already got great protein ready to go. So in my most recent butcher box order, got some ground beef, got some salmon, got some chicken, got some bacon. Beyond it being obviously delicious, healthy, good for you, all that versatile, what I love is that right there, there's so many different things you can do. Ground beef, chicken, salmon, that can be dinner, that can be lunch, bacon, we can use that for lunch, for dinner, for breakfast, whatever it might be, we've got all these different options that can cover our entire day.

24:52If you're looking for an easier way to get great meals on the table, give ButcherBox a try. Go to ButcherBox.com slash athletic football to get$20 off your first box. Plus chicken breast in every box for life or filet or New York strips for a year with free shipping always. That's ButcherBox.com slash athletic football. Again, that's ButcherBox.com slash athletic football. Be sure to use our link so they know we sent you. Pick your head up, you take a look at the calendar and suddenly you realize, wow, holiday season, really not that far away. Being in the football media makes holiday season sometimes tricky for us.

25:25We want to be able to celebrate with our families, celebrate with our friends, but take a look at the calendar again. Holiday season and the NFL season, those match up with one another pretty dang closely. So balancing the personal and the professional, it can be tricky for us at holiday season. The same can certainly go for small businesses as they are trying to attract customers, get their product out. Holiday season, it is a high stakes time of year, a busy time of year, potentially. a tricky time of year, and Shopify can help you out. Shopify is the platform for a record-breaking, reliable holiday selling season at every stage.

25:58Shopify's pre-built website themes and AI site builder make it easy to launch a beautiful, professional-looking store without ever touching a line of code. Shopify's mobile app lets you run your store from anywhere, from tracking inventory to customer support to handling payments and more. Shopify Checkout with ShopPay converts up to 36 % higher than the competition, meaning more customers actually buy. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from household names to small businesses just getting started. Launch before Black Friday, a time of year when more people are already shopping and ready to buy.

26:29If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com slash maze to start your free trial. That's Shopify.com slash maze. Go to Shopify.com slash maze today to hear your first.

26:47all right y 'all this is the conversation i've been thinking about since saturday and it might be a byproduct of me being too online and i am for the record i will own that i'm completely self aware but two-thirds of the way through saturday you saw it happening where you know arch manning had a bad game against Florida. Drew Mestamaker lost to Houston in the primetime game. Dante Moore's already been dealing with the concussion issues at Oregon. He hasn't played in a little while. Austin Simmons, my guy who we were all so excited about. Mizzou didn't score a touchdown against Ole Miss. Trinidad Chamberlain had a couple nice throws in that game, but in general, not like the craziest outing of his season.

27:31and we're already hearing this narrative of like it happened again this the 2027 quarterback class is bad again there are no quarterbacks worth being excited about i don't think i'm ready to believe that but i would love to open it up to y 'all what what do y 'all think about what we've seen through six seven weeks of this season and how excited should nfl fans be about the quarterback options in this class dane i'm gonna i'm gonna open it up to max first just because he's please He's new on the show. I'll start it off. Yeah, I think it's funny. I got a text from a buddy yesterday about like, oh, how terrible is this class?

28:07And I was like, I'm not there yet. Yes, here's where I'm at. No one's emerged as the clear-cut number one guy, home run pick, like the path that a Cam Ward was on two years ago or a path that Fernando Mendoza was on a year ago. But I still think there is a crop of, call it, 6 to 8, 6 to 10 guys that, you know, with two months left in this season, could emerge to being, you know, top 10 NFL draft picks. And that pool is larger. I think what's going to be difficult for teams at the top is I don't think there's going to be a surefire guy. You're going to have to evaluate the guy that you like and then pound the table for that dude.

28:49But it's not going to be, hey, served up on a platter. Hey, Raiders. There's really only one decision for you right here. So I still think it's a talented class. I think the NIL piece will make this interesting where there are guys that could be in that first-round conversation and top-end of the first-round conversation that I might advocate go back to school just because the money is going to be that good. And, you know, obviously it's a big talking point when projecting to the NFL. How many snaps do you have under center in collegiate football? Mestemaker is obviously a guy that's climbed a bunch these past couple months.

29:26To me, he falls into that bucket. But I still think guys like Trinidad Chambliss, to me, should be right in the thick of a first-round conversation. Darian Mensah should be right in the thick of the first-round conversation. With Mensah, and especially coming off the back of our arch conversation, I love that now he has done it at three programs with three different atmospheres, three different play callers. The top-end traits aren't there compared to the other guys, but I just love that he's been able to find success in different environments, and it hasn't been just the perfect recipe for him.

30:01The trajectory of Dante Moore will be interesting with the concussion, of course, and then I could keep going. I think there's about still probably at this point, mid-October, five other names or so, six other names that could still be in that first-round conversation. Dane, where do you stand on Mensah right now? We don't talk about him as much as some of these other guys because Miami's just been rolling through its schedule, but maybe it's a good time to check in on him with them having survived a, I mean, scare is an understatement. That was a terrifying game against Florida State. I mean, Mensah's a not-for-everybody quarterback because some teams are really going to value, you, hey, I want that explosive arm, and he just doesn't have that.

30:48But he can compensate with a lot of other things that he does offer, including touch down the field and the ability to work the pocket, keep plays alive. But I will say that the last two games look different than the first four. Miami had such an easy schedule in September, but then, okay, against Clemson, a little bit tougher. They've got some NFL guys in that defense against Florida State. Florida State, credit to them for giving everything they had and throwing it at Miami and almost coming away with the victory there. The last two games, Mensah has more turnover worthy plays than he does touchdowns.

31:28He's completing just 42.5 % of his passes when pressured. So I think that the last two games we have seen a little bit, you know, some cracks in the foundation. but they still won those games and Mensah still played not great, but well enough to, again, lead his team to victories. And so it just feels like Kadarius Toney is kind of the driver of that offense. Malachi Toney. What did I say? You said Kadarius. That would be wild if Kadarius Toney was making plays. They move a little bit the same. But, yes, Malachi Toney. It's something where, like I said, he's not for everybody quarterback. You know, I think some teams, if he continues at this pace, I agree with Max.

32:13I think he'll be in that top 10, top 15 conversation where it's just like, hey, he knows where to go with the football. He is an accurate thrower. He knows how to layer it. He might not be that premier size speed athlete with a big arm, but he can play quarterback. And that will, you know, you think about Ty Simpson last year and some of these other quarterbacks that maybe weren't top 10 slam dunks, but good enough to still go in the first round for a team looking for, you know, that style of quarterback. Okay. So let me put y 'all on the spot. Everything you just outlined against Mensa sounds good.

32:51He's, you know, he did like Max said, he did it at Tulane. He did it at Duke. He's doing it at Miami. Drew Mestemakers played like a season and a half and he wasn't even a high school quarterback, but his tape is prospect catnip, which by the way, they lost to Houston and he threw a pick. I was traveling on Saturday and I was trying to follow along on my phone and I was like, ah, shit, they're losing. You know, he's not playing a good game after we just said he was QB one. I went back and watched it this morning. I, I'm not concerned. He still looks like that. He still looks like that dude to me.

33:26So what do you do with that? And, and for the record, yeah, I think Max brought it up and it's worth pointing out. maybe Mestamaker doesn't even try 2027 but if this keeps up what do you what do you do with a choice like that between a a very obviously limited experienced quarterback who can put the ball where it needs to go or Josh Allen Jr. over there in Stillwater Oklahoma like what are what are we doing here and it's funny that he's wearing number 17 as well I would at this if it keeps going on this trajectory I think he goes back to school that's what I would advise him to do And trust me, I know the money that you would be turning down and, you know, he's one play away from, you know, an injury and that whole thing.

34:09But it just feels like the conversation we've had, you know, really the past half dozen years with the NFL, with, you know, Brock Purdy's emergence and all that is, you know, how much experience do you have going to the NFL? And those are polar opposites. Like that's been the case for a guy that started, you know, like one or two years. We're talking about a guy who didn't even play in high school as his starting quarterback. So from a mentality, take the experience out of it in terms of just rep scene, but from a mentality to be like literally last year, I made a YouTube video on how this story, who's this random guy in North Texas that wasn't even his high school quarterback.

34:47Like the ascension has happened so fast that I wonder where he's at. Experience one, but then two, just mentally with this whole circus. And I also think from a money standpoint, he's at Oklahoma State, the T. Boone Pickens NIL path that is in Stillwater, Oklahoma. He could legitimately get$7 million next year if Mensa's getting$6 million this year from Miami. And you're passing up that money if you're Mess to Maker. Like, I go back to school and I get the experience. He's on the hook. or I think Oklahoma State's on the hook for, I think, $3.5 million next year for him, which I think you're right.

35:31He would definitely get a bump. That'd be part of those negotiations. But, I mean, I agree with you. I mean, if in a perfect world he goes back to school, there's just no substitute for experience, especially at that position, right? And everything you said I agree with. I think it's just going to be really interesting once we get to the end of the year, if he continues to play well and you know if he just feels like hey I've kind of you know because man but this is and this is the same offense that he was in basically last year at North Texas if he feels like hey I've kind of felt like I've done everything I could do in this offense so it's either maybe do I transfer up and try to challenge myself to it you know an SEC school a big 10 school whatever it may be or do I just go pro now and you know obviously I'll have my lumps uh that's going to happen but at the same time, I have a good chance to be a top 10 pick, maybe the first quarterback drafted.

36:27And, you know, so there's just so many, you know, so many different ways, different details that each individual quarterback looks at. I mean, Dante Moore, I kept telling everyone last year, I think Twitter was 95-5, he's going pro. And I kept saying, hey, scouts are kind of 50-50 on this one because he didn't have many starts and he really wasn't in a hurry to go pro So scouts were really split. I would say right now, just based on talking to scouts, they're 50-52 on what Mestemaker is going to do. Not necessarily what he should do, but just with his situation specifically, what might happen.

37:06So I don't know. I think this is definitely a question for December, but there's no doubt this is an unprecedented path that he's taken. Max, I wanted to ask you more about Chambliss, because I think he's, besides the lack of size, what would be your main concerns with him and his jump to the NFL? Because there's so much about him, his live arm, his ability to move, just his playmaking style of playing the quarterback position. Aside from that size, which is an issue, no doubt about it, but besides that, what else would be your concerns about him making that jump? That's a good question. I would say outside of this size, I'd have concerns whether or not his mobility will translate to the NFL.

37:53It's such a big factor to his game, the scrambling and playmaking ability when things break down. He's getting outside the pocket and all that. I wonder that, hey, when that defensive end and outside linebacker is the same speed as him, if not faster, does that get neutralized and then he's losing a huge tool in his toolkit? But even with that being said, I still think he has the ability to consistently win from the pocket. And then you enter the size conversation of, you know, is it as easy to win from the pocket when when when he is smaller in stature? But his his trajectory is fascinating to me because it reminds me of Baker Mayfield back in in 2017 in the sense that if you ask people this whole offseason, hey, you're drafting college quarterbacks tomorrow.

38:40Who would you draft? Most people would say Trinidad Chambliss at that point. But we didn't have that crossover to an NFL draft pick conversation. And then the whole world was watching that LSU game. And then he balls out. He's the player of the game. They pull off the huge win. And then it was like, oh, he is an NFL prospect. And it felt like to me, I was playing at the time. But to me, that's how Baker's progression was, where everyone's like, oh, if you're drafting college quarterbacks back then, it's Baker. Then you fast forward to that whole draft process. And even back then it was, all right, yeah, he's in the top conversation, but it was a little bit like, oh, wow, he's going above, you know, a Darnold or a Josh Allen at the time.

39:20And it surprised me, at least at that time. Dane and I did that draft together. And I think it leaked because it was John Dorsey. I think it leaked that Dorsey was taking Baker, like, before the draft started. And it was stunning. Given the options in that class, It was stunning that the Browns went with Baker number one. And yeah, buddy boy. Good memory, Dan. I was, I was a, I was a Darnold fan in that, in that draft. And you know, it's, it's funny how it, how it works out. I mean, Lamar is the last pick in the first round that year and Josh Rosen went top 10. So yeah, it's, it's crazy how quarterback classes, how they play out.

40:03And this, this one, especially, cause yeah, to Max, to your point, like just, from my perspective, my opinion coming into the year, I had it Arch, Dante Moore, CJ Carr, Mestemaker, Chambliss. Those are my top five quarterbacks coming into the year. All five were in my top 35 of my top 50. Now, okay, midway through the season, it's all jumbled up and it would be Mestemaker, Chambliss, Mensah, or probably, you know, Carr, Mensah together. and then TBD after that. Dante Moore, when does he come back? He missed the second game because of that concussion. They've got Oregon as Illinois, I think Northwestern, and then they go to Columbus.

40:44So when do we see Moore back on the field? And when he is back on the field, is he going to be who we saw last year? Is he going to struggle like he did at points in the first half of the year? So, yeah, this is a really unsettled quarterback class at this point. And it'll be interesting because a lot of these guys are underclassmen. When we do get to December, the NIL negotiations and how that all plays into this, even like Darian Mensah, he would it be surprising if Miami said, here's$10 million, stay for another year. You know, you're going to have Kadarius. Jeez, I did it again. Malachi Tony is coming back.

41:24um like you know there's so there's there's gonna be a lot of nil discussions when it comes to these quarterbacks and these nfl decisions one last thing on this point too just to round this out like because of this dynamic that we've talked about with the quarterbacks i can see a realistic scenario where if i'm drafting inside the top 10 and i need a quarterback i'm really nervous because i'm not i don't have that surefire guy if i'm drafting from 11 to 20 i'm really excited because there's a world where I can get some value and fall in love with a guy that's like, hey man, in a different draft, maybe he is in the top 10.

41:58And obviously that's usually not a position where you're finding a franchise quarterback. And then if I'm drafting in the 20s, 30s, or then even in the front end of the second round, a lot like a Tyler Shuck progression, I'm really excited because at that point, I think there's going to be a crop of guys that just from sheer numbers, you can get excited about and fall in love with one of those guys and convince yourself at picking 25 that I found a possible franchise quarterback for the future. The Dolphins hate to hear that, but I think the Steelers, the Browns, there are a few teams that might be on that, picking in the teens, picking the early 20s that would look at that and say, okay, yeah, we might not have a top 10 pick this year, but there could be a situation where one of these talented guys falls to us they might have their warts that's why they fall but we feel like he could be an upgrade long term to what we have now and so yeah I think that's a good point to bring up I'm glad you all jogged my memory on this because one last name and I'm not saying this at least not yet as like a major prospect but how about some love for Connor Wegman Dane just dicing up Oklahoma State like it was Mestemaker that drew the headlines in that game Connor Wegman former very high profile recruit, Texas A &M.

43:21He's at Houston now. And I don't know, man, he's kind of looking like the guy people hoped he could be coming out of high school. Like, I think that's, you know that stuff better than me. I'm not going to put a grade on the guy, but he's looking like a name people should know if they're looking for quarterbacks in this draft class. He's helped himself, no question. And because just talking to scouts over the summer, he was firmly a free agent graded quarterback. So for him to be playing at this level, Oklahoma State doesn't have the greatest defense, but you could argue that Wegman looked better against Oklahoma State than Dante Moore did when Oregon played Oklahoma State earlier in the year.

44:00So there are some reckless throws on his tape, but at the same time, he's a really good athlete. He can use his legs to his advantage, throws the ball really well on the move, has the arm where he can gun it in there, but can also layer it. So I think that there's something there. And as long as he interviews well, which I think will be a big part of his final grade and projection, he's definitely a riser, not to the level of the guys we've been talking about. And he's not going to be, I think, one of the top five quarterbacks drafted, but somebody that, okay, box checked for a senior year, go to the senior bowl, go to the shrine bowl.

44:39If you do well there and then combine, and just every step of the way, you are gaining ground. We'll be having a lot more Connor Wegman discussions as we get closer to the draft. Bring back the upperclassmen 30-plus starts fourth-round pick. Like, bring it back. It doesn't all have to be boom or bust. I'm ready for that. So what Dak Prescott was? Still playing football, man. Kirk Cousins still playing NFL football at a pretty good clip. All right. Dane, do you have any – when I watch Connor Wegman or I think about his story, Tyler Shuck kind of pops out only in the sense that Tyler Shuck had a takeover for Justin Herbert at Oregon.

45:20Didn't work out, kind of bottoms out, has to get on the move. Connor Wegman led the best recruiting class in college football history. Tons of expectations at A &M. Injuries doesn't go well. Landed a new spot. You got the athleticism there. You got the arm talent, the once big time recruit as well. Like it feels like, and I need to watch more to see if their skill sets are actually comparable. But like when I hear about the trajectory and then watch what I'm seeing, at least on the TV copy, feels like there could be a, could be a path that we saw from Shuck a couple of years ago. No, I like it.

45:56And I think that with, with Wegman, he's, and it's funny because I, like, if I read my notes, it's just, it's a lot of positives. It's like, here, let me pull it up right now. So, okay. Nice placement on the go ball. That's play 27 from Oklahoma State. Nice ripped drop touchdown. Good play by the quarterback. Play number 39. Very comfortable on rollouts, nakeds, boots. He could run and gun. Play number 51. Awesome 44-yard scramble through the heart of the defense. Play 54. I mean, every single one of my notes from that game, it feels like it's a positive. Like I said, there are some like reckless throws, reckless moments that he just needs to kind of, you know, figure out like, hey, maybe I can't do that.

46:40But, you know, if we're going to overlook that a little bit with a guy like Mestemaker, who is very much still trying to figure out, hey, this I can get away with this and I can't get away with that. But a guy like Wegman, the way that his trajectory has gone is not how you draw it up, but credit to him for not folding, coming back. And the Big 12, with the way that the BYU game went, the way Texas Tech is playing, the way Houston's playing, I won't be shocked if they get two, maybe even three teams into the college football playoff. And that's awesome. Honestly, when it comes to the college football playoff, I'm rooting for teams with quarterbacks to go because I want to see Darian Mensah in that type of environment.

47:23I want to see CJ Carr in that type of game where it's high stakes. You're playing a theoretically playing a really good team. And so maybe Connor Wegman and Houston could be part of that conversation as well. It just underlines my overall point that it's October 20th as we record this. I'm not ready to throw in the towel. Like spare me the it's over talk with the 2027 quarterback class. I mean, I will never forget the couple of years ago when the Caleb Williams and that that class did not play like amazing that final year in college. And that's a great point. Jaden was like the only I mean, and like Bo Nix and Penix, but like of the big of the top three trade was the only one that had a great season.

48:15go back and watch the Clemson game, the NC State game, like North Carolina, just he did not play well. And North Carolina did not play well. And I remember I took so much heat because I was firmly on the, hey, Caleb and May, like these guys are dudes. They are one A, one B. They'd be number one in any draft. I went hard on that because I believed it. And then late in the season, May just got obliterated. And that was that was a tough pill to swallow. But at the same time, you don't you believe in the body of work. And so I think it's the same thing with these quarterbacks believe in the body of the work, not necessarily the rollercoaster week to week.

48:52And so that's something that, you know, we'll be talking about throughout the rest of the season. And we will, we will check back in as we need to a very, a very heavy quarterback corner, but I think that's okay. We do have other stuff we want to hit. Dane has a couple more tickets to the green room. He wants to hand out and we're going to do that right after one more break. Think about a football team learning a new system. If everyone is working from a slightly different version of the playbook, things can break down pretty quickly. The same thing happens at work when important processes live in one person's head or everyone does the same task differently.

49:27It leaves teams guessing, creates inconsistency, and even holds your AI back. That's exactly the problem today's sponsor, Scribe, was built to solve. Scribe is a specialized intelligence platform trusted by 94 % of the Fortune 500 that automatically generates the documentation for how your company works. It captures workflows as they happen, then turns them into clear step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions so no one has to sit down and write it from scratch. Scribe also automatically redacts sensitive information, plus its Guide Me feature provides real-time on-screen guidance showing people exactly where to click right inside the actual tool.

50:03Those captured workflows can even give your company's AI agents the context they need to operate based on how your team actually works. Elevate your team's know-how today. Head to scribe.how slash athletic football and mention the athletic football show for your first month of scribe capture free on select plans. That's S-C-R-I-B-E dot how slash athletic football. This episode is brought to you by Onnit. You know those days where your schedule is packed to the brim? You're jumping straight from managing work deadlines to squeezing in a workout, running family errands, and trying to handle a million things all at once?

50:37When you're deeply engaged in a busy day, staying in that zone can make all the difference. That's where Onnit's AlphaBrain comes in as a daily nootropic formula designed for daily cognitive support. It supports cognition, memory, attention, focus, and mental clarity while you're tackling your daily tasks. It supports alpha brain wave activity, helping you tune out distractions, get into the zone, and support that optimal flow state when you're deeply immersed in an activity. It supports quicker reaction times and relaxes and supports alpha wave activity during normal, occasional stress. If you're ready to support your concentration and focus throughout your demanding days, check them out.

51:14Shop now at Onnit.com. O-N-N-I-T dot com.

51:22with the discover cash back card it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases activate and earn 5 cash back at different categories each quarter on up to 1500 in purchases that's 5 cash back at different places each quarter like grocery stores on gas and at restaurants it pays to discover terms apply see discover.com slash five for details

51:51let's let the listeners in behind the scenes day and because i'll just say i'm not used to getting trolled by you you are a very you're a very buttoned up very professional colleague and so i just wasn't ready for when you texted me on saturday and said we're inviting two more people to the green room and i said who what's going on tell me and you were like no you have to wait So why don't you just take the floor since you were looking forward to this so much? You were very impressed by two performances on this college football Saturday. Well, and just to remind the listeners and viewers and Max, we have the green room where this is the exclusive club of these are first round picks with a bullet.

52:38You don't need to watch anymore. no matter what else happens, these guys are first-round picks, barring injury or something else crazy happening, right? So we have two guys in there right now, Jeremiah Smith, Leonard Moore. And we're being – this is an exclusive thing. So we're not going to just – we could throw 10 more names in here, but we're going to be very exclusive about it. But I do want to invite two more names, and one on offense, one on defense. Both these guys were in the top 10 of my top 50 in August, so I don't think any big surprise. Guys, first on defense, Colin Simmons, Ed Rusher, Texas.

53:14He's been good all season, but I thought Florida was his best tape of the year. The way he played the run, he was a big part of limiting Jaden Baugh in that game. He had a really timely pressure late in the game. And then you felt him when he got hurt in the fourth quarter, you felt him not being out there and what that meant for the Texas defense. So he's going to be sidelined for a few weeks with his ankle injury, but nothing long-term, I think it's overdue for Simmons to get the invite. Any issues with that? That's what I was going to ask. What was the – I'm surprised he wasn't in here earlier, to be honest.

53:49You said overdue. What were you hanging on? Well, I mean, to be honest, we just started this a couple weeks ago, so it wasn't something that we had been doing for a long time. We were a little late to the concept, for starters. No, no, no. I like the concept, and I agree with the decision. He's a beast. to me I think the one thing I want to see is like where's he at in the run game long term and how does he progress there I don't know if we're going to get that in college football to be honest I think it might just have to be a you get comfortable with it and then he progresses as his career goes on but elite pass rusher not the you know when the when the season started it was kind of him and and Dylan Stewart at South Carolina that's a different conversation because I think he's his status is in jeopardy with the uncertainty with him in South Carolina.

54:37But he is more long, powerful, edge rusher, looks elite coming off the bus. And Simmons is, don't get me wrong, still looks great, but not to that length. So how does he progress stopping the run? And then schematically, when we really fast forward in the NFL draft, if you're talking about, I think fit with him really matters. Who's his defensive play caller? What scheme is he going into? what other edge rushers and defensive linemen are on that roster, I think will impact the ceiling that he has at the next level, but for sure worth a green room invite. What y 'all are talking about is why I got so excited about this Florida game, though, because just look at the way Colin Simmons is built.

55:18I don't need you to tell me that he can dip his shoulder down three inches off the ground and run around a college tackle. And not to say that that's not impressive, but I just expect that from him. And so to turn this game on and he's setting the edge and jolting tackles back with his hands and just being a demon in the run game, just getting his face in there. It was it was so cool to see where I was like, oh, there is a physicality and a tenacity that belies your frame. Not obviously he's not a small guy. He's a D. He's an SEC defensive end. But when you're talking about as an NFL prospect, seeing him straight up bully offensive tackles in the run game in this Florida tape was it was exciting for me where I was like, oh, so you can do a little bit more than just scream around the edge.

56:07This I've probably watched Simmons. I don't know, 12, 15 tapes total going back to last year. This is the first time that I've watched one of his tapes and his run defending snaps were better than his pass rush snaps. And I think that's why I think this is a timely week to put him in and say, look, I know what you do as a pass rusher. You are I don't think you're ever going to be a true power guy in terms of an edge setter and even as a pass rusher. But there is enough in those hands. There's enough in the will to be competitive that I'm going to take my chances with you every time. So Simmons is the one.

56:42And then the other one on offense, Charlie Becker, wide receiver, Indiana. And I was surprised when I got pushed back when I had Becker in my top 10 back in August. I think he's absolutely lived up to it this year. He's just a tough cover because you have to respect that vertical speed so he can break off routes. He doesn't have to tip his path. And then the ball skills are just tremendous. It doesn't matter if he's covered or not. He has the hand-eye coordination and the ball skills to finish, especially in those contested situations. So I know this is a lofty comp and he's not quite as big. There's some Mike Evans there.

57:20Long, fast, catches everything. I don't know. I think this is an outstanding player. How tall is Charlie Becker? Do we have a measurement on him? I don't have verified, but I would guess it's 6 '3 and change, like 6 '3 and an eighth, 6 '3 and a quarter. My screen in front of me has roster height 6 '4, 210. So you're probably spot on. So, yeah, and Evans is, he's legit over 6 '4". He was, I think, 230 at the combine. Like, Mike Evans is bigger, but I think just a little bit smaller version of that. Charlie Becker's going to lead to some fun comps because let's just be honest. I mean, we're talking about him as a slam dunk top of the first half of the first round prospect.

58:03White wide receiver. That's a new one for me, man. I'll say it. So how people comp his game. I like Mike Evans, though, like the the body control, the contested catch ability, like the one he had. I know. I know the one you're talking about, Dane, like on the right sideline late in this game where he just had a window the size of the football between two defenders and brought it in over his head. He's he's absolutely incredible. My only commentary on this game is that he caught nine for 165. And I felt like Indiana left another hundred receiving yards out there. And I know Josh Hoover was dealing with an injury.

58:42I'm not trying to kill the guy, but a little bit better ball placement from the quarterback. And I think he would have had like an all time sort of day. I mean, the 36 yarder he had, and I think it was, it was when it was 13 to seven, the 36 yarder he had could have easily been a 70 yard touchdown if he had been led a little bit further down the sideline so to go for nine nine for 165 and i'm sitting there like ah they left some out there is just that's crazy well and i think most people know but like he grew up a big ohio state fan uh because his dad was a linebacker for the buckeyes in the 90s um you know some of those really good defense he played with vrabel and fickle and um so he he grew up buckeye everything and then was a three-star coming out of the Nashville area.

59:30Ohio State didn't offer him. Most schools didn't offer him. I think his best offers were like Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Indiana, and Iowa. And he goes to Indiana, and it's worked out pretty well for him. Watch the Jordy Nelson comps come alive for the white physical. Jordy Nelson, Alec Pierce. Yep, you're right. Oh, yeah. No, it's fascinating to watch too, and it's a reminder for me doing these evals is, you know, Becker's popped. Every single game you watch of Fernando Mendoza last year, Becker pops. And I remember watching the Oregon game to me last year was when all those Indiana guys kind of got on my radar.

1:00:11And that was the game where I was like, man, Omar Cooper is making some plays. This guy is different. This isn't just, oh, he's the slot receiver in a good scheme. Like, no, that guy's different. Fast forward, he's in that first round conversation a year ago. So same thing this where it's like, man, Becker's making a ton of plays on the outside against what we view as top-tier corners. This isn't just a, hey, good story, great, you know, signety, fine kind of thing, even though he was already at Indiana. It's like, no, this dude can play football. And it'll be fascinating as things progress, the conversation with him and Nick Marsh, too, the receiver on the other side, who's highly regarded as well.

1:00:49I know we're not here to break down the results of the games. Like, I know that's not the purpose of the show, but obviously like Nick Marsh wound up in a jackpot at the end of that game where Indiana has a chance to win on fourth down. He loses sight of his his feet and steps out of bound. But also, like, I don't know. Are we putting that all on Nick Marsh? Could it have been a better throw? Am I just being a Josh Hoover hater? Like very unfortunate situation all the way around. Max, you tell me, but I and we have to give Hoover some grace because he was about to get smacked. Plus, he was dealing with the injury.

1:01:24But, yeah, I think the quarterback could have done a better job leaving that a little further inside where the receiver, it wasn't even an issue for him. And the other thing, I don't want it to be lost. The route that Nick Marsh, that got him wide open, just cooks that Ohio State cornerback. It was like a little sluggo where he sells that slant with his body, with his eyes, and then the burst to get vertical was just tremendous. It's a shame for Indiana that it finished that way. But yeah, I think the quarterback could have done a better job leaving that a little further inside. It's both. It's Hoover kicking himself, leave it more inside.

1:02:03And then it's also on Marsh too at the same time. If you have the wherewithal in real time to catch the ball, look down, and immediately be disappointed that you didn't get your foot in, then you've got to kill your feet and find a way to get your foot in. So it's, it's the easy answer, but it's, it's, it's both guys. Yep. That's fair. I think there's a lot of, we, we already outlined all the reasons why, you know, Cam Coleman, maybe you'd hope for a better season from him. Not, and not to say that he, like, he's still going to get drafted very highly, but I like that. We're putting Charlie Becker in the green room right now.

1:02:38I think he's been very definitively wide receiver too in this class. I would maybe even argue closer to wide receiver one than wide receiver three. Like, I think that's that's an interesting one. Yeah. And I'm not saying he's going to get to Jeremiah, but I think in just in terms of tears, he's closer to Jeremiah than than the field is close to him is what you're saying. I think that's a perfectly reasonable argument to make. Yeah. Fantastic stuff. Love it. All right. We're running a little long, but let's fit it in here. There's one more thing we wanted to highlight here or two, depending on how quickly we can do it.

1:03:16But after, you know, so many times over the years when Alabama has lost, you're like holding on for dear life in the second half of the game, just hoping the clock runs out. Tennessee took it to Alabama, like just out physical them for the vast majority of that game. and Dane, you wanted to take the opportunity to highlight one of the big reasons why, which is this Tennessee defensive line. And we talked a little bit about them after the Texas game because they got after Texas. They won the trenches in that game. It's the best defensive front in college that I've watched so far. And it just, it all starts with Xavier Gilliam at the nose tackle who looks every bit of a top 20 pick.

1:04:04He's a fluid 300-pounder, quick twitch. He has strength. There are flashes to a Byron Murphy, which I don't say lightly, as good as Byron Murphy is for the Seahawks. So him and then the other guy I wanted to highlight was Tyree Weathersby, defensive end, 6 '5", 270 pounds. He can tilt the field and then build up that power, blow through blocks. He can control the point of attack. Scouts say he's the toughest guy on the team. and he had another multi-sack game against Alabama. So both these guys are just stock-up type of players, kind of the engines of a really good defensive line. What excited me the most about Gilliam too is, at least early on in the year, on third down, they'll move him out towards more defensive end and not just be like, there's a lot of plays.

1:04:57His most impressive tape to me is when he's right over the center and his quickness shows and his hands show, that's great. But then you can tell Tennessee knows, hey, on third down, he's got some quick twitch and some pass rush ability as well. So it's not just like he's a log jam in there. So, you know, I like your word fluid and being multiple there. Love Gilliam in that regard. And then just even zooming out, this is a very timely subject where, candidly, I wasn't really tracking Tennessee's defensive line going into the season. But this week, I've heard it mentioned three different times in terms of how good this unit is, and it's keeping Tennessee in a path towards a college football playoff, which I would not have said a month ago.

1:05:40There was a play against Alabama on the tape, maybe second quarter. I think it was like play 30, where they line him up as an edge rusher, Gilliam, and he looked decent in terms of capturing the corner and having enough upfield speed where he's going to force that tackle to really stretch it out and extend the pocket. So I think that that's a great point because if you're an NFL team and you're, okay, is he a nose tackle? What is he? But okay, you could throw on the tape where, yeah, he's going to win head up over the center, but also as a shade, also as a three technique, also as a four eye. Like they move him up and down that defensive line and that quickness, that strength, it translates.

1:06:25It moves with him. So that's been really cool to see. Do you ever think about it in terms of the highlight reel? Like when, when a player's name gets called and Mel Kiper or Daniel Jeremiah is walking the audience through their best plays and they have like the reel of their best plays. Gilliam had like one of his plays from the Bama game is going to be front and center when that happens. And it was the one where he shot the gap and was in the running back's lap before the quarterback could even hand it off. just like snap timing, explosiveness, got into the backfield. He just detonated this play.

1:07:02He had another one where he shed a block and jumped into the gap and just demolished the running back at the line of scrimmage where I was watching it and I was like, okay, when you get drafted and it looks like it might be pretty high, these are the plays that are going to run while DJ is telling everybody about how good you are. Just like outstanding stuff. and rock a number two at the defensive tackle spot. It just makes the highlight look all the more sicker. We love a big guy with a small number. When you watch tape, sometimes it's hard to tell, okay, is that 94, 96? Look for that two. It's nice and easy, so I applaud it.

1:07:42One last guy. We'll do it quickly. We already mentioned it. BYU, huge statement win at home against Notre Dame. linebacker Cade Ulaave led all defenders nine tackles and a tackle for loss. Max, you've had eyes on him up close, if I'm not mistaken. I have for years. I've probably covered Cal more than any team the past three years with my time at the Pac-12 Networks and then CW and then now ESPN. And Cade has been the mainstay for Cal's defense for what felt like three or four years and then now transfers over to BYU. and even film aside, and I can let Dane touch on that, but the way that the coaches rave about him as a human being for a middle linebacker, like that is going to be on the margins, the reason that teams fall in love with him.

1:08:33Yeah, he's been the dude. It was the guy that's highlighted on every one of my boards the past three years for Cal, transfers over to BYU. He's fast. He's incredibly instinctual. He's tough. in 2024 he played with a club on his arm like half the uh half the season if i'm not mistaken flies around and uh in modern football when you think of a middle linebacker to get it done in you know the run game filling the a and b gaps but then also be able to be strong in pass coverage rolling with tight ends and have the athleticism needed to to play at a high level it's uh it's cool to hear that kate is in this conversation now because for a while candidly i viewed him just as a high-end collegiate linebacker over there on the West Coast, has the big game against a big-time offense in Notre Dame, and I think rightfully so is in that NFL draft conversation.

1:09:24I love guys that show up immediately. And as a freshman, he worked his way into the starting lineup, and I think it was against Cam Ward. He had a strip sack, an interception. So he's been a guy, to your point, that's been on the radar a little bit. And he's just kind of a do-everything guy. Watching the Notre Dame game, that final drive, where they just pressure, pressure, pressure with Ulave, and he was able to kind of disrupt CJ Carr enough to make some of those throws really difficult. Really, just beside the point, but what a fun game. Really, I know, again, that's not our job here, but just a really great Saturday of college football in terms of drama, stakes, all that stuff.

1:10:11And I think it's going to continue, man. A lot of good stuff on the schedule this coming weekend. I mean, the big one we got, look, I'm going to keep watching the Arch Manning situation. Texas has Ole Miss this weekend. That's a big one. Miami is hosting Pitt, which the line is big, but I don't care. Pitt has looked good at times this year. What else we got? We got LSU, Auburn, Tennessee going against Lenora Sellers in South Carolina this weekend. So plenty of stuff to watch, plenty of stuff to react to. We will do it next week. Max, this was so much fun, man. Thank you for hopping on. We'll be sure to have you back sometime.

1:10:47It was a blast, fellas. Thanks for letting me hang out. All right. For Max and for Dane, I am Dave. We appreciate it. We will talk to you all next week. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

1:11:12With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details. State fair food is getting smaller and pricier. We'll have room for fried cookies. Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal? What's his deal? He went to Metro and got$450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free.

1:11:51And no activation fees. Free phone? Oh, sign me up. Get that more for your money feeling. Only on Metro by T-Mobile. Bring your number and activate a$40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro or T-Mobile in the past 180 days. 98 of the top 100 U.S. accounting firms trust Bill to simplify and secure Bill Pay. That's proven financial infrastructure built on over a trillion dollars of secure payments. Visit Bill.com slash proven for a special offer.