Biggest questions of the 2026 NFL offseason

0:02Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays kind of our last show of the 2025 2026 NFL season. We're doing the biggest questions that we have left heading into this offseason. We talked about the quarterback carousel. We talked about some of the veteran trades that might happen. We talked about a couple of teams and their potential strategies heading into this offseason, whether that's the Cowboys, the Bengals, the Eagles. So dug into a lot of this, just the stuff we have at front of mind as the offseason gets kicked off with me, Derek Lassen and Dave Hellman. Let's get to it right now.

0:43We do a set of shows every year on this podcast. Some of them are a little bit more exciting than others. Some of them I think people look forward to, but we've done this show each of the last like three seasons, the end of Superbowl week, the Friday after the Superbowl, we always spend a little bit of time asking some of the biggest questions that are looming over the NFL off season, which we are currently in and currently in starts in earnest next week. And that is what we are going to do today. We have about, I don't know, 10, 12 questions that are at front of mind here. As we dig into the off season, it was fun to see what you guys came back with.

1:21Like, obviously there are some big ones that are around quarterbacks and how quarterbacks are going to move. And then Dave is just picking out like defensive tackles from contenders that he's excited about potentially watching next year. Yes, absolutely. I'm glad you I'm glad you keyed on that one specifically because I was pretty proud of it. Derek also has some just some wonderful ones that are the most Derek thing possible. I always love this when I give you guys just like a very generic prompts where it's like they're just questions about the offseason. You come back with whatever you're interested in.

1:53It's such a telling exercise, like what the answers always are. They say so much about each of you. One or two of mine are a little bit selfish and indulgent. But again, if you leave it open ended, I'm going to do that a little bit. All right, let's dig into these and let's start with one of Dave's that I think actually kind of brings us to a larger conversation that probably needs to happen. Dave, you wanted to know what the Vikings are going to do at quarterback this offseason. And I think we could just use that as a larger jumping off point for what the quarterback carousel was going to look like, because the Vikings are a stand in for a lot of these other teams that are going to be seeking out a quarterback at some sort of price this spring.

2:33you're right and we should talk about a variety of teams i singled out the vikings because i find them the most interesting like the the dolphins are clearly in some stage of a rebuild i would expect that they're going to cut to uh and all of the ramifications that come along with that i don't expect the dolphins to be ready to jump into the mix this year you could say something similar about the cardinals and what they decide to do with kyler murray the vikings are interesting for the same reason the Vikings have been interesting. They're a quarterback away from really, really mattering in the league landscape.

3:06It went wrong last year, but hope springs eternal. And what can you do to try to climb back into the mix? Obviously, J.J. McCarthy is going to be a piece of that. I don't expect them to give up on him, but you cannot go into 2026, obviously leaning on him the way that you did in 2025. five. So is that trading for a veteran? Is that finding a cast off somebody that gets cut from their current team? However you want to do it. I just think it's the most interesting one because I think the Vikings have the highest ceiling of any team without a settled quarterback, which sounds really familiar, but that doesn't make it less true.

3:47And it's like, we have proof of concept of what the ceiling is. They literally did it with the guy who just won the Super Bowl. And like I I know the 2024 Vikings season ended the way that it did. And Sam Darnold kind of spiraled. But like and the Vikings defense isn't obviously quite as good as the Seahawks. But like if they had Sam Darnold this year and he played of the same quality, like you could convince me that the Vikings could have gotten to the Super Bowl. And so we know the ceiling for this roster in this team. But like I just like they're not I don't think they're going to be able to be the Kyler Murray team.

4:17I don't think they're going to be able to get any of these other big ticket markets. It's like they're going to be end up in a spot where they do need to dip into what was initially the Sam Darnold market. Probably the like like what Daniel Jones's market was going into last year. Like that sort of quarterback is probably what they're going to have to do. But I will say I don't really think that J.J. McCarthy of it all is that interesting. Like to me, it feels like you kind of have to move on, in my opinion. Like I like I would be trying to get get away from this as quickly as possible. So I can understand that specifically when we're talking about the Vikings and their timeline.

4:51The idea that after what? Ten starts. How many starts have we seen from J.J. McCarthy? Well, because he's hurt all the time. Well, that's that's part of the conversation. I just think that we've look at some of the quarter. Look at Sam Darnold. Like it is 10 for the record. Exactly. So I want to be clear about this. I'm going to take this in stages. I do not have a lot of faith in J.J. McCarthy based on what we have seen so far. I also am willing to acknowledge that giving up on J.J. McCarthy after 10 games, just as an idea, is crazy. But there is a third stage of this. If you're the Vikings, you can't waste another season.

5:30Like, even if there is a chance that he rehabs himself and he becomes a capable quarterback somewhere down the line, if you're Minnesota and you're Kevin O 'Connell, you can live with that. Like you have to make sure that you're getting something out of the 2026 season, even if that means you move on from J.J. McCarthy and he has a resurgence somewhere else in two years. Like I think all of those things, those three things together can be true. Well, and so that's what I mean. That's why to me it's not very interesting. Like if they were the Panthers, right, like they would be afforded a year or two to like, OK, we can keep playing out the string here, see how this goes.

6:04Maybe he gets a little bit better. Maybe he finally stays healthier. Like I just the Viking. We said this going into last year and it was true. They just do not have the time to sit here and wait around with this roster, especially with how old and expensive the defense is. I'm wondering how old the defense stays, though. Like, I wonder how many of those guys are still around. Like I bet Hargrave gets cut this year. I don't know what they do with Jonathan Allen because they need to save some money. I mean, they're another 40 million dollars over the cap, which affects the type of quarterback they can get before they start doing some maneuvering around.

6:32And by the way, they don't have a general manager as they figure out how to do all of this maneuvering. Their cap guy is now running the front office. And so I'm assuming they'll be able to pull all the levers they would have otherwise. But it's a very interesting offseason for the Vikings, which teasing this, they will be one of our most interesting teams of the offseason when we get to the combine in two weeks. It's also just funny. Like, I guess I agree with you, Derek, that if there was a way to definitively move on from J.J. McCarthy, I'd be with you. But who is it? Who is that guy that is definitively like, yup, this guy's taken over and we can just forget about JJ.

7:08Like the free agent market just doesn't do a whole lot for me. I mean, do you want to hop back on the Aaron Rogers thing? That was a storyline with the Vikings for a couple of months there. I'll hop back on the Gino Smith thing. That's an 11 win team with Gino Smith. Okay. I think I agree with you, but after what we just saw from Gino and Gino's age, how can you just bring in Gino and be like it's your show buddy if he's throwing to Justin Jefferson Jordan Addison and has that offensive line which I don't think he's like a special offensive line but is leaps and bounds better than what he was stuck behind in in Las Vegas last year like again I don't know if it's going to be like superstar like maybe even as good as speak in Seattle or whatever but like it to me is going to be a tier two above what JJ McCarthy was giving you I think Gino is one of the best case scenarios for the Vikings this year but But even who are the other ones?

8:01Like, so just peep behind the curtain. Alec Lewis, who covers the Vikings for us, sent me a text at the beginning of this week. And he listed off like eight quarterback options. And he's like, choose your fighter. Who would you want? And I won't tell you what my response was, but it was essentially all the quarterbacks who can be available, including like some interesting, creative ones like Tanner McKee. So Dave, if you're looking at the options, you think Gino is one of the best ones. Who would you stack up in that top tier or like right alongside Gino? If you're in Minnesota. find a way to get Kyler Murray.

8:32I don't think it'd be that hard to get Kyler Murray. I didn't say it was impossible. Just whatever. Well, like if it's, if you can get a reasonable price for him. Yeah. Those are, those are the two that would probably get me the most juiced are Gino Smith and Kyler Murray. My, my stance on this is, is it worth going really cheap because of how expensive the rest of your roster is? And it also means if you go really cheap, it doesn't have to be a permanent solution, right? Like you can just make sure that you have a stopgap for this year and then kind of reassess where things are in 2027 when you're in a different spot financially, all of that.

9:10Maybe that's just, you know, you're duct taping a problem that needs a real real that really needs solving. But that's kind of where my mind went. It's like, can this team just trade for Mac Jones, tread water for a year and then reassess? Because there really is no overwhelmingly good option. and I'm not sure Kyler is that for this team and maybe I'm too down on Kyler and when it comes to him compared to the other available quarterbacks that are going to be there for the next two off seasons but my mind immediately went to how can we just fix this in the short term kind of gesture at the idea that this is actually just competition for JJ knowing this guy's probably going to win the job like I didn't solving this was with a sledgehammer was not the first place my mind went.

9:50I think that's what Kyler is. See, I don't think I agree just because at this point, I mean, I'm looking at it right now. I guess Kyler has three years left on his deal. You could, and I'd have to take a closer look at the finances, but like if you can get out of the Kyler deal in two years without it completely ruining things for you. And I understand you can, you just said it. Yeah, exactly. No guarantee salary left after this year. He has like a couple big roster bonuses. And if you were to trade for him, he has a, like a, he has a big roster bonus this year. I assume they'd convert it to a signing bonus, all that other stuff, but there's not a ton of money like lingering on the Kyler deal beyond the season.

10:30If Kyler is a fairly expensive two year rental and like, that's, that is the interesting thing. Like what would Kyler fetch in a trade right now between his deal and the injury history and the way that he's played? like I certainly wouldn't sell the farm to get Kyler Murray, but that's like you just said, I don't think it would be that expensive. So if I could get him without mortgaging too much of my future, knowing that if it doesn't work out, we can get out of this in two seasons. And if it does work out, then, then Kyler could be the latest success story of cast off quarterbacks and we rework his deal.

11:07I don't think it's that like it is a big swing because it's a big, name and you would and you would be trading for him but i don't think it's as big as it sounds you know i have two questions for you derek one yes what would you pay for kyler for kyler murray in a trade probably not a first round pick at that well my thought is probably not went for a three last year i think you have to pay more than that because he's younger that's my thought he's more talented so like probably at least a two and like change yeah that's kind of where my mind maybe and maybe even a two in back-to-back years or something like that and i think it depends a little bit on it depends a little bit on how much of the money arizona is willing to eat right like i think that that starts to come into the calculation but if we're assuming the vikings are having to take like a decent chunk of it i think a two and change is like totally fine that's kind of where my mind went because like i look the last couple years went how they went they were not some of his best ball even though it had some pretty high highs he's still relatively young I still think that he can be like a top half of the league quarterback and this Viking situation is better than he what he had in Arizona for a number of reasons one the offensive line will be better the I know we were kind of excited about what the Cardinals weapons could be and they're obviously pretty good like Trey McBride all that stuff I think Justin Jefferson Jordan Addison and Hawkinson is a little bit better than what they've got and then Kevin O 'Connell like I know you know he hasn't been able to make JJ McCarthy maybe the prospect that we wanted him to but with all other veteran quarterbacks he has proven that he can get the best out of them and And I do think that there's a world where he can get Kyler to play like the 14th best quarterback in the league again.

12:46And if he's doing that with this defense, with Justin Jefferson as his number one receiver, like that's an 11, 12 win team again. I guess that's kind of my thought is that, OK, in the best case scenario here, you're giving up a two and change to and the amount of money that you're paying him. So Kyler right now, just if you do a little bit of back of the napkin math, I think it'd be like a twenty nine million dollar cap hit if you took the whole contract. He has a twenty three million dollar base salary plus the roster bonus that you can prorate over a couple of years. 29,$29 million cap it for a quarterback.

13:13Isn't it ton, but it's not nothing like that's a real amount of money, especially for a cash strap team. If you can make him the 14th best quarterback in the league, what about trading a fifth round pick for Mac Jones or a fourth round pick for Mac Jones and paying him$2.8 million. And he's the 20th best quarterback in the league.

13:32Like, I just, I think you're more intrigued by the higher ceiling at the end of the day. How much higher is the ceiling in, In like a three game run, like if you're just trying to get a little bit hot. You're paying him$10 million as much. He's Mac Jones, man. Like he, listen, Mac Jones is a perfectly capable quarterback in this league. He played some really good games this year. He is Mac Jones. Like he's not going to take this team all the way to the end. And I'm not sure Kyler is going to either. He has a lot of his own faults, but I at least have more faith that like if necessary, Kyler could take over a game or two with this supporting cast.

14:06Whereas like Mac Jones would need a lot to go right. And again, last year, Seahawks, or I guess this year, were proof that like that can be enough. And Sam Darnold's obviously more talented, had some high moments. But like I that feels a little bit more like you're trying to thread a needle. And I guess you agree with this. I'm just trying to kind of interrogate the idea. And my second question to you after the how much would you give up is do you think Kyler Murray is an actual solution? And it seems like you think he might be an actual solution. And I think that plays into how much you're willing to give up for him because none of the rest of these guys are actual solutions.

14:37maybe Malik Willis, maybe, but none of the other guys are actual solutions. And so if you think Kyler is that, I think that you're willing to move a little bit more because other than Kyler, even in the draft, there are no actual solutions in this quarterback carousel. If you're Minnesota also, what is your realistic path to a solution? Like the Vikings for a lot of this season, the best one they were abysmal especially their quarterback play they still finished with a winning record the roster is really good they have the best possible draft pick among non-playoff teams and that was after a team where after a season where watching them was a bummer for a lot of the season like they're too good to stumble into a path an easier pathway to a quarterback so So yeah, like I think ideally or no, I think, I think my first choice would be Gino because it's the lowest risk and you're not tying yourself to somebody for the future.

15:38But if you're trying to answer this thing for multiple years, you're in a position where Kyler might be the best possible answer as far as guys with like real upside and not guys that are toward the end of their career. You might have money. They're going to have to move around to make this work too. It's just like, I'm playing around with it right now. you're restructuring Justin Jefferson, you're restructuring Christian Derisaw, you're cutting Javon Hargrave. Like they're going to have to do some stuff in order to like the gymnastics necessary to fit Kyler in at this price. Those are real. So missing on a top 10 quarterback is a very painful proposition.

16:12I don't recommend doing it. Every team has to dig themselves out of that. And so I, I think Kyler is probably the best solution for the reasons that you guys are saying. The fact that it actually might be a multi-year answer that gives you a real off from the mistake that you made. Part of me kind of wants to see the Gino thing as an experiment because I need, I need it. Like I need the Gino back to happen. You just can't let that be Gino's final note. It would be so depressing if that was the last thing we saw from Gino Smith as a starting quarterback in the NFL. I was saying this in the discord last week.

16:47I get the fact that people are going to use this season and what Sam Darnold did is proof that Gino was never good. And that's just sad because it's not true, but it's hard to argue against it. Like I can understand people coming to that conclusion, even if I think it's misguided, it just bums me out. What name did you give Alec or was it Gino or Kyler? It was Gino or Mac Jones. Just be, just because I just, I, again, for whatever reason, I'm just in the, how do you solve this cheaply and just get competent quarterback play? But I think the argument, Dave, that what is a better path to like a multi-year answer than Kyler Murray this year, because let's say you get a Mac Jones for a year and you can win 10 games with Mac Jones.

17:27Well, then what do you do? Then you're going to be in a position all over again where you're going to have to maneuver around the first round to go draft another one. And so your guys' argument that Kyler is actually the best real answer for this team in like a long term way. I can see that. I don't disagree with that. And like I said, I think the idea of Kyler is bigger than the reality. Like, let's say that trade goes through Bleacher Report and ESPN are going to have the Photoshop's ready to go. And like Justin Jefferson is going to tweet or say on Instagram, like, oh, who's stopping us now?

18:04And like, it's going to be this like viral moment and everybody's going to be making fun of them because it's like, oh, don't let them sell Call of Duty in Minneapolis. It'll all go south. And meanwhile, you're giving up like a second round pick and you can move on in two years because he's already into this contract. Like it's not, it is not as big of a deal as the name power of Kyler Murray leads you to believe. And I think that's worth remembering. I'll be curious. I mean, we still have landing spots like Gino. I think we'll go somewhere because I think there are enough teams that need a quarterback.

18:36I think he'll be released by the Raiders. That just makes the most sense. And he'll be available at a, probably a decent price. And there's so many teams that need starters. Like if you were the jets, does he make sense for you as like a one-year stopgap option like that would be insane given he started his career there oh yeah i didn't really think about that i didn't really think about that i don't know if that's gonna fly if you're the cardinals and you need somebody to start for a year like gino i think is was one of those options which i actually do like because we've kind of talked about gino before as like the stafford light in some ways that i do think like fitting him into the michael fleur offense probably makes i'd watch it i think that one makes sense.

19:12And then the team, I mean, the guy that I think is maybe the most intriguing just because I think he'll get paid a decent amount of money based on what we've seen from him. And I think a team will actually invest in him as a potential option. Where does Malik Willis go? Like, where does Malik Willis go? And what is the price from a week from Malik Willis? I think is going to be really interesting to watch. Is there a team you like for him, Derek? it's it's hard trying to make the money work right like i the jets feel like they're in such a bad position that honestly if i'm malik willis i don't know if i want to go do that like i honestly think another year of like you just say that until the contract's on the table yeah i i don't know the jets freak me out and then i do think the dolphins is actually like intriguing if they can somehow make that work money-wise but i really don't know how they would be able to do that yeah i mean it's going to depend on what happens with tua right like they've they've said i think i've seen it reported through back channels that they want to trade him of course they do right and of course they want to trade him whether they'll be able to is a different conversation and so there's the thing like with the dolphins is like in theory it's like okay maybe we can trade to a and we can get some other team to take on some part of the money but if you're that x other team wouldn't you rather just give that money to malik willis than like trade it to go and pay to a tongue of my low like that doesn't make any sense 39 million dollar base salary this year too good god 39 million dollars and again you the dolphins would probably pay some of that and it's there are ways to solve this but what a quagmire that team has found itself in any other lingering quarterback questions that you guys want to hit any other players any other landing spots that you have been in front of mind for you that we did not talk about at all

20:58i don't think so i mean i guess we we should bring up the steelers i guess but doesn't just feel like rogers is gonna go back there now that would be my guess which how sad like it just feels gross that like him and mike mccarthy are kind of remarrying it just feels weird everything about this makes me feel like i'm taking crazy pills the entire thought around the mike mccarthy hire I'd be like, well, now they can get Rogers back. Who? Why? Why? Why is that a good thing? How are you selling this as a positive to me? And the other end of it is Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rogers hit a dead end as a pairing eight years ago.

21:41Wasn't two years ago. It wasn't five. It was eight years ago. They were both younger and sprior at the time. counterpoint it this is how bleak it is like what what or what's the alternative like that feels like it that feels like it could potentially be a landing spot for mac jones like if the steelers don't want to do that or if they were willing to trade some capital maybe throw brand and iuken and call it a day i don't know i i would do anything else other than the rogers thing because what rogers is going to make he's going to command what he's going to want at least like 10 million right in order to come back and play it just there's no argument you could I'd rather have Mac Jones for two the guy I just rather would like I at this point that would rather have that this is a case where I'd much rather have Mac Jones yes 100 % like this is one where like I Aaron Rodgers is like the 25th best quarterback in the league at this point he's 40 something years old like there's just this doesn't get you anywhere I'd rather do anything else even if it ends up worse I'd rather do anything else the only dog I have in this fight is getting Gino back to a place where he can play confident football next year.

22:48It's the only thing that I'm rooting for at the end of this entire cycle. I guess Gino could go to Pittsburgh. That's fair. They should have done it two years ago. Yeah. All right, we're going to take our first quick break and then come back and talk about some trade candidates at some other positions.

23:06All right, Dave, you were curious about Max Crosby and what the future for Max Crosby might look like. Max Crosby falls into a bucket with several other guys in terms of big name players that might be on the move this offseason. I was looking at the Max Crosby money, 5 million in dead money in a pre-June 1st trade. And so the Raiders could easily do this. Like some of the other moves we're going to talk about are a little bit more complicated, a little bit more naughty. But if the Raiders wanted to move on from him and a team wanted to spend a couple first round picks to make it happen, this would be a pretty clean move for all parties involved.

23:38It really feels like it's going to come down to how good of a job Clint Kubiak can do selling Crosby on his vision for the Raiders and having a pathway to the number one overall pick and drafting Fernando Mendoza maybe could go a long way towards selling Crosby that he wants to be here for this but it really feels that easy to me like with the way they shut him down at the end of the season and how unhappy he clearly was about that the amount of speculation that's already been in place I mean really for like two years at this point but it feels like it's on Crosby to me to say, all right, no, I, I see the vision and I'm here for this.

24:16Or yeah, this is the time it makes sense with the contract. It makes sense where he is in his career. He's still firmly in his prime, but it's getting to the point where how many more years can you count on that? And so this feels like nut cutting time where, and, and the, I think we talked about it on the show that we did a couple of days ago where like if, if the Raiders want to read, like if they want to add some juice to this rebuild, having the picks that you would get in the Crosby trade makes perfect sense because Crosby's not going to be on quite the same timeline as like a rookie quarterback.

24:53So it makes a hell of a lot of sense if that's what they want to do. And maybe we can finally see if they do it instead of just speculating about it. The timeline thing is an interesting discussion. And I remember talking to people in Cleveland when they were discussing trading Miles Garrett. And the thought was, if we trade Miles Garrett to a contending team, let's say it's the Bills. The Bills are going to be picking between 25 and 32 most years. So you get two first round picks and change. So you get the 27th pick, the 28th pick, and maybe the 48th pick in another draft. That's a ton when you think about two ones and a two, but then you actually think about the players and will you be drafting.

25:31And the other thought is, is that going to be more valuable for us if we can turn this around in the next two to three years than just having Miles Garrett on the team. And so that was their thought process. And I think you could go either way on it. With Max Crosby, if you can get two firsts for Max Crosby, Derek, aren't you compelled to do that? Isn't that enough of a price to kind of restock other areas of your team that that actually would be the smart thing to do if you were the Raiders? Dave talking about trying to convince him to stay and everything else. I get that because it is like a PR hit if he leaves.

26:06And I think that there is some value quietly and making sure that he's a part of what you're building there. But I also think if you just look at it, Max Crosby is a really good player. Would you rather have two first round picks in the money than Max Crosby? I think is actually a worthwhile discussion. I, and I think the reason I would say it's different than the miles. I mean, one miles Garrett is a tier above even a player like Max Crosby, because he's like the best pass rusher I've ever seen. But I think the other part of it is like, at least with miles Garrett and the Browns, his side of the ball was awesome and like there was proof of concept that they could build like one of the best defenses in the league around a player like miles garrett and obviously last year they weren't one of the best in the league but they were pretty good again after like a weird 2024 season like there is proof of concept you can build this thing really strongly around him the raiders defense over the last handful of years has had like some nice moments and patrick graham had called it really well but like they've struggled to really build this thing around him And they probably need like two full off seasons to build what would be like a top seven, top six caliber defense around him.

27:07And again, by then, like you probably would have rather had some of those resources so you can spend on the like around the quarterback that you're about to build. Like I this to me, Max Crosby is an incredible player. He might go on and like win a Super Bowl for somebody else. But this is probably a situation where if you're the Raiders, it probably does behoove you to kind of just let him go and get it, get as much as you can back for him. who's the team that makes the most sense for Max Crosby? Like who is the team that is in a place where they would trade away a ton for Max Crosby? We can argue about the quality of the decision and the Packers trading for Michael Parsons last year.

27:41I think the Packers are the exact team that was in the position where you could justify and rationalize trading for Michael Parsons. Who is that team now? You're not going to like the answer. They're not though. Why? They can't afford it. who are you going to say the Cowboys say the Bears no I was going to say the Bears oh yeah no they're stretched pretty they're stretched pretty thin from a salary cap perspective if not the Bears I mean that's the funny thing the funny thing about trying to project a guy like this to a contender is contenders are typically stretched thin on their finances because they're trying to hold an expensive team together long enough to get to the Super Bowl I would guess a lot of people are going to say Buffalo.

28:26Does that make sense with Buffalo's finances and how they've been in the draft? I don't think so. I think this would make a lot of people laugh and like make fun of them for doing it. But Tampa Bay.

28:43Honestly, I don't hate that because I do think a lot of their issues have stemmed from the fact that their front is just simply not good enough. And they've got a couple of decent players like Diaby, solid, and all that stuff. But we talked all going into last offseason, like the thing that would really change the Tampa Bay defense is if Hassan Redick is the player you wanted him to be. And he wasn't. And I think there's it's a lot easier to get there with Max Crosby that like, yes, if we got him, he would be exactly the player that we want him to be. And like, I do think that that would have a pretty good trickle down effect.

29:12I'm I'm trying to convince myself, like how to get the Rams to do it. the problem then is like I don't know how they fix the secondary if they do this but I'm still trying to make this work in my brain why do the Rams need another edge rusher why why do you feel compelled yeah who's so who's coming off the field here's the thing they're going to have to pay Byron Young soon and I do think that there's a case that trading for Max Crosby and then letting him go like you at least like recoup some of the money there in some sense and I also think the idea of having Jared verse and Max Crosby is like the best run defending edge duo that you could possibly get And so and honestly, after after Young and versus like they've got a lot of nice role players, but it's it's not enough to prohibit me to get a player like Max Crosby.

29:54Again, the bigger issue to me is not like we have a wealth of we have too many good pass rushers or too many good guys up front. The issue is if you potentially trade both your first round picks and some of your money, I don't know how they fix the secondary. That becomes the issue to me. And then you're kind of where you were this year. But I'm still trying to think my way through this. I got one for you. New England. I think New England is a reasonable one. They still have plenty of cap space. They've got quarterback answered for a long time. They don't have to pay may anytime super soon. They, I mean, you'd still like to read, like to add cheap young draft picks to that roster.

30:35But if Max Crosby signs on, then I think you could lessen the sting of not having a couple of first round picks. you already proved you can get to the Super Bowl with what's there. I think that would be a dangerous line of thinking. Of course it is. But that's I mean, that's the the that is the push pull of doing a trade like this is like you. It makes sense for a lot of reasons, but it can blow up in your face for a lot of reasons. The other one that I would throw out. Because I just think, all right, what's a team that you could reasonably make an argument that with a Max Crosby, they could like win the Super Bowl next year based on the rest of their construction.

31:14And I know they just drafted an edge rusher in the first round, but I'm not sure that procudes you from doing something like this. What if the Niners did it? Listen, if they can make the money work. I mean, they can. I mean, I'm looking at it right now. They're got a ton of big contracts on the books. 2027 is actually when they don't have a lot of cap space. Right, like they're kind of screwed next year. So if you, Nick Bosa is a$52 million cap at 2027. He ain't playing on that. So they'll restructure that in some way. And then the IUK money, he's at a$41 million cap hit in 2027. He's not going to be on the team.

31:46So literally just not having IUK's contract in the books and restructuring Bosa gives you$54 million in cap space. So in theory, that is something that they could do financially. And I know that they will probably. So if you look at it on that timeline, Trent Williams, his contract voids before the 2027 season. So you would need a left tackle. I mean, there's a chance they just try to find a left tackle in like the third round to just keep this thing rolling. So that's one where like, I understand you just spent a first on Michael Williams, but you bought Michael Williams into that rotation is like your third S rusher.

32:17You got Max Crosby and Nick Bosa. You're cooking a little bit that that one's at least interesting to me. See, I think that's, you just said, you think that Patriots line of thinking is dangerous. I think that's way more dangerous for the 49ers because look, I'm not, I'm not saying their window is closed. They just got to the divisional round with a mash unit of a team. but like at some point you got to start thinking about the future and thinking about the fact that the, the best players on your team are all getting really old. That's the correct mindset, by the way, which yeah, like, I mean, it, it would be really fun.

32:54And like you, you double down for one more ride. And then all of a sudden it's September and Christian McCaffrey is hurt. And you know, Nick Bosa's dealing with something and you don't have any draft picks and the average age of your team is like 29. I just, that, that sounds very scary to me. Why aren't you any fun? I think it's very fun. Look, I tried to have some fun with the bears and you just poo-pooed that immediately. I'm not, that's not allowing that to happen. Exactly. It's fun to trade away two first round picks for other teams. For the other team in your conference that you're like, if they screw themselves, who cares?

33:30Let's get to a couple of these other guys. The AJ Brown trade is to me going to be a really fascinating one to watch. I don't understand how the money is going to work if they trade him before June 1st. Eagles writers that I was talking to at the Super Bowl seem to believe that it's something they could make work. Their accountants are much smarter and better at this than me over in that building. But if they trade him after June 1, it's only a$16 million dead cap. That seems more palatable. I don't know how bad things have gotten there. We're going to talk about the Eagles here in a second, but that's a name to watch.

33:59DJ Moore is somebody we've talked about. He has a$23 million base salary this year. The bears save a ton of money. If they trade him, I just don't think you can justify him on a$28 million cap hit based on what his role in the offense looks like. And some of the other needs that you have. So I think that's something they should absolutely consider. You trade DJ Brown, DJ more and free up space for like a max Crosby. You need to free up space for two starting safeties. Another, like there's so many other things they need to do with that money that I, you cannot give all of it to max Crosby. the one I'm most interested in because I think this is anybody could trade for him.

34:37I can understand why this team would have an appetite for dealing him. And I already have a couple of landing spots in mind that excite me. I'm very curious what the Brian Thomas market looks like this off season. Okay. You have, you've been beating this drum since like the trade deadline basically. And I am well aware that year two was, was disappointing for Brian Thomas Jr. A, don't you think he played better once Jacoby Myers showed up and sort of gave everybody a more defined role? And B, is it so late in this guy's rookie contract and was it so bad that we're sure this needs to happen? That's my only pushback.

35:21It's not a matter of that. I would want Brian Thomas on my team. I think it's a question of, based on what you're asking him to do within the offense, specifically in Jacksonville and the role that the other receivers are playing for you. He's kind of playing like a complimentary role within the offense. It's like a vertical piece. If you could get. I don't know what I'd give up for him. I think that becomes a different because you're not going to get a first is no thing. And so that's so that's probably the problem. But let's say you can get a two and change. Let's say you get a two this year and a four next year and it adds up to like a late first round pick.

35:58and your Jacksonville and really what he's giving you is like a field stretcher within your offense. I think you feel compelled to weigh that because that's worth more than what he's actually providing to you. And for a team like Buffalo, he just he wouldn't just be that he would be like the focal point of your passing game, which he's not going to be in Jacksonville based on the second half of the season, even if he was playing better. But I think he does give you a lot, even if it's not showing up in the stats. Like, I think the way that the offense functions and where they're trying to throw the ball, having a player like him who stretches the field like is a necessity.

36:33Like it actually reminds me a little bit. Can you get that cheaper? That's my question. I mean, maybe, but like, I think over the back half of the season, we saw proof of concept of what it can look like with him. And I think he will be better than he was this last year. Like I think new offense, they were trying a lot of weird shit for the first eight weeks of the season. He was clearly unhappy with his role. And I do think it started to settle in. So I think that he can be a pretty good player, But I was going to say it reminds me a little bit of like the early Shanahan, Kirk Cousins, like Washington offenses.

37:04Deshaun Jackson didn't put up like huge numbers, but he was the most important player on the offense. And I don't necessarily think that Brian Thomas is the most important player on the offense, but I do think he serves a very functional and necessary role if we're trying to create space for Jacoby Myers over the middle. Brenton Strange over the middle. Parker Washington over the middle. And especially, too, it seems like Travis Hunter, the early rumblings are that he's not going to play as much receiver, which I think is correct. But I think that that starts to play into your calculus a little bit of like, maybe we do need to just keep Brian Thomas Jr.

37:36The only thing that gives me pause is the Jags don't have a first round pick and you're not going to get one by trading Brian Thomas Jr. But if you want to try to add draft capital, although I'm looking at it and thanks to the threes, I was going to say thanks to the Isaac to slot trade. It's not like they're lacking for draft picks. I mean, they have one, they have their two and they have three threes. So I, this, this doesn't feel necessary to me. I think I'd rather take my chances that BTJ can get back on track. You guys are probably right. I'm just trying to give the bills a fun receiver. Cause I want to watch it happen, but you guys are probably right.

38:14So move on to our next one here. Both of you guys wanted to talk about the Eagles a little bit and the framing that you guys both had was very funny where Dave was like is the makeover going to continue and Derek's was how bad does this get because because the like so coming off of what what would it have been 2023 where things went right right like uh the the Brian Johnson offense it's not all that good you know some of this stuff falls apart run game isn't what you want it to be well then the next offseason they get Saquon Barkley you still have Jeff Stouten around. You hire Kellen Moore, who is not was not the sexiest play caller.

38:51He clears the bar. Yes, he cleared the bar and we knew what he was, right? Like we had seen him call pretty good offenses in the past. You have pissed off Jeff Stoutland to the point that he doesn't want to be in the building. So that's the other thing. It's not just that he left or retired. It's that it seems like there was a lot of weird dynamics going on there. So you pissed off maybe the most important man in the building, which is not great. Then you hire Sean Mannion as offensive coordinator. And I think there's a chance that he ends up good, right? It's just we haven't seen him. He's only really been coaching for a couple of years in the league.

39:21And so we really have no idea if he clears that bar or not. And then I think the offensive line, even just from a talent perspective, is worse now than it was a year or two ago. Saquon Barkley is getting a little bit older and he's obviously coming off a year where I think he was not 100 percent healthy. A.J. Brown, who knows, like if he's even going to be on the team or what his appetite for playing at a high level on this team is going to be like, I just, this feels like it's all spinning out of control in a way that they kind of gathered themselves and we're okay going into 2024 going into 2026.

39:55I don't feel so confident they're going to do that again. I think I feel the same way as Derek. Yeah. I just phrased it nicer. I was thinking of like, that's why I I wanted to shine a light on it because I thought it was so telling. I bend over backward to be diplomatic and Derek's just like, no, this sucks. And I'm going to tell you how I feel about it. And I really admire that. But no, I was thinking about like, like if you're remodeling or doing work to your kitchen, like are we just changing out the tile on the backsplash and adding a pot filler and calling it a day? Or like once you take that tile off, do you realize that something's rotten in the, in And all of a sudden you're just ripping everything out.

40:38Like that's what I think about with the Eagles where it's like, okay, are these some cosmetic changes that are going to get you where you want to go? Or are we trading AJ Brown, you know, or like is, is Lane Johnson going to retire and completely throw your plan for the off season into upheaval in terms of what you need to do to your offense. So I'm, I'm just curious to see how much longer it goes. And I'll just say, I don't appreciate and I don't buy the gaslighting. Like when, when the Jeff Stoutland stuff came out, there were plenty of people that were like, well, Sean Mannion wants his own guy in there.

41:14And the scheme changed and new faces are good. And I'm just like, absolutely not. You're not going to tell me this guy who has been so pivotal to the Eagles success, who has been there through multiple head coaching changes, by the way, forget about a coordinator, but he's survived multiple head coaching changes all of a sudden just leaves and drops a statement about it and according to the reporting did that before the eagles were ready for him to it's it's stinky and is it like is it stinky and you can just take something rotten out of the fridge and put some baking soda in there and it's all good or do we need a whole a whole new refrigerator which i'm just using all the kitchen analogies are you guys redoing your kitchen right now?

41:57Not even. No, I couldn't afford to redo my kitchen if I wanted to, but yeah, I don't, I don't know where my, where, how my brain gets these things, but I, are the Eagles done remodeling or, or is it going to be a lot more? Two things you guys did not mention. It sounds like Vic Fangio almost left. So that too, right? Which that goes beyond we're just, we just run out of road with Jeff Stoutland. I think that speaks to the dynamics involved here, right everybody else in the building is like i don't know if i want to be here and that was part of the other thing about the 2024 turnaround is that was when they hired vic fangio and obviously he still is there and so you're getting some sort of continuity there but that was part of how they were able to like jump start this thing and kind of become like a new team and the building felt different and all that stuff it's like well now that part of the honeymoon phase is like not existed anymore and i'll say this i mean i again i'm a huge fan of christian parker but i think he's a really good conduit between Vic Fangio and the players.

42:54And so you lose like an important member of your defensive staff. And two of the names you guys have not mentioned yet that are connected to Jeff Stoutland. I mean, there are rumblings that Lane Johnson and Landon Dickerson might be done. I mentioned Lane. I forgot to mention Landon, but yeah, like, I mean, exactly. Like again, is this, is this a minor retool or is a shitload of stuff about to change in Philadelphia? and both things, both of those seem completely plausible. This to me, this entire Eagles run from going to the Superbowl in 2022 to the moment that we've arrived in right now. I mean, Dave, you're better at kind of pulling like historical context than I am with something like this.

43:35But in the 10 to 15 years I've covered the league, I can't remember anything like this, where it's so over and so back at every single off season. Like the idea that this team could win the Superbowl. They Seahawks had their parade yesterday a year ago. The Eagles were doing that. And now one year later, the building is burning down. Like I, it's crazy. Like what this team does and the vacillations every single year. Like there's nothing to even compare it to. I can't remember anything like this. And yeah, we've been covering the league for about the same amount of time. And that's the fun part about it too, is like it, the fact that both things seem so plausible is very funny.

44:19Like if you're, if you're an Eagles fan and you feel a little defensive about people piling on your team and you're just like, just, just wait, we'll show you like, I kind of believe you. I kind of believe the Eagles might be really good next year, but I also kind of believe it might be a dumpster fire. Both things feel equally possible. And so the next few months are, are going to be interesting. All right, let's take one more quick break and then come back and talk about a topic that is near and dear to Derek's heart.

44:49All right, Derek, what do you want to say about Drake May? What is your offseason question about Drake May? This is so different than all the other ones. I was so excited to see it. I mostly need everyone to not say insane things about Drake May. On either side, I think we're going to get to a point where he had the two most extremes that you could possibly have in a season, where you have the second-year quarterback jump, where he is like a couple of votes off from winning the MVP, takes a four win team, they win like 13 or 14 games, they go to the Super Bowl. But then in the playoffs, which is always the measuring stick that people use for these young and upcoming quarterbacks, he was awful.

45:28Like he played, he had some moments, I think, against the Chargers, even despite some of the bad moments, but otherwise, and like one or two drives against the Texans, but otherwise did not play very well throughout the entire playoffs. And so I think there's going to be people that are going to see his playoff run and be like, the regular season was fake. It was all schedule. He's not actually that good. It was a flash in the pan. And all I'm going to say is like, we just don't have to do that. Like Lamar Jackson shit the bed. His first playoff game that he played against the Titans. Like a lot of other young quarterbacks have done this.

46:01Like Joe Burrow did not play very well. People talk wild shit about Lamar Jackson. Yeah, he won two MVPs though. But that's what I'm saying. You're just asking the NFL content machine to not churn. I don't know what to tell you. People are wrong about Lamar Jackson, and that's fine. I've been saying that for almost a decade now. But like a lot of other young quarterbacks have played very poor games early in there. Like Andrew Luck had a tear like four interception game against the Patriots. Like a lot of very good quarterbacks have ended up going on and sustaining the play that suggested they could uphold in their second year.

46:33The first half that Patrick Mahomes played against the Patriots in his first playoff run. Like it just these young quarterbacks are going to have these moments. And I'm not necessarily saying that he's going to have like a Patrick Mahomes arc where he's in the MVP race every single year. I just the last month of play should not erase how good he was as a 23 year old quarterback in this league. And again, people are going to say the schedule, but like it's really hard to be 23 years old and beat the shit out of everybody you play. And so I just that's all I'm saying is I am hoping that people do not use one month of play to forget everything else that he did.

47:10I want to be clear. I want to live in that world, but I think you're I think you're yelling at clouds, basically. I just don't think the world works that way. It's wishful thinking. Yeah. The sooner you let go of that, the better. I still struggle to let go of it because I'm often the same way. I think for me, it's just a fundamental lack of understanding about so many people. Their first instinct when a quarterback has a bad game in the playoffs or when somebody stumbles late in the season is to like sharpen the knives and be like, I told you, I told you he wasn't as good as you said he was. and I think that there it's important to add context to this stuff and it's important to try to land on okay like what is he really based on the schedule they played in the regular season the schedule they play in the playoffs like where do we land between those two things even though I think that's not all that important because like Drake May is going to make 60 billion dollars a year when he gets his extension and it doesn't really matter like where he falls between those two poles but this thing of like after a quarterback falls everyone is ready to like just to sharpen in the knives and go after this person.

48:18I just don't understand that. Like, I just don't understand that instinct and it happens all the time. And I think I've just kind of learned to walk away from those discussions or I'm trying to learn to walk away from those discussions. It's just like, you know what? You guys can have this, this conversation over here. I'm going to remove myself from it. We can talk about other things. Well, and so that's like the, the last thing I want to say about it is like, okay, maybe this last month of play is proof that the, this season was a little bit of a mirage and he's not he's obviously not going to be in the mvp running every year but like to what end is that true that he was only the 10th best quarterback in the league as a 23 year old and even that i think is probably lower than it should be he was better than 10th this year i don't give a crap who he was playing yeah so whether drake may is the fifth or ninth best quarterback in the league it's like i guess we can have an argument about this like i think that the guy I would compare him to the most after this season, and it actually is kind of funny because I think this Drake May season and the fact that he almost won the MVP, the season that it makes me look back on and think, oh man, I wonder why we didn't talk about his season that way was what Dak did in 2023.

49:29And it's kind of to me where the Drake May discussion right now is just kind of where the Dak discussion is. It's like, well, whether he's the sixth best quarterback in the league or like the 10th or 11th best quarterback in the league, you're going to pay him at the top of the market when it comes around. He's a guy that can win you all the games eventually, like a guy that you're, you're not going to pick a different quarterback to try to get you where you're going. And he's probably as good an option as anybody under the age of 25. And so why does it really matter where he falls in this discussion?

49:57And he might still get better. Like at least he's 23. He was, yeah. Like Dak was like 30 at that point. It's like, well, he probably is what he is. Drake may is 23 and we'll get better players around him. He will get better, all that stuff. I really appreciate that. We're six weeks into the new year and I already had to take age really poorly because I said during Super Bowl week that Drake was going to benefit from plot armor. And that's just clearly not true based on the early returns. And the problem is Joe Burrow would have needed to have three of the Titans games for his playoffs to be the same as these Drake May playoffs.

50:34And that's just not what happened. Speaking of Dak and the Dallas Cowboys, Dave, one of the questions that you had was how are the Cowboys going to approach this offseason? And is this going to be different than what we've seen from them in years past? I'm not ready to be heard again, but I want to see if the Cowboys can get me there. And we've kind of we've joked about it, that the hiring of Christian Parker sends a signal that this is a different coaching search and a different process than what we've gotten used to. I know for a fact the Cowboys kind of gave the reins to Brian Schottenheimer to fill out his defensive staff the way he wanted to.

51:13And that is a departure from the way the Cowboys typically do business. Now, can you keep it going? Because there are elements here for the Cowboys to be a really exciting team in 2026. You theoretically have the ability to keep George Pickens. The report already came out that they're going to tag George Pickens, which like, of course, of course they are. So you have that in place. They don't have cap space, but with all the big contracts they have on their team, they can free up plenty of it by sending a few emails. So money should not be an issue. And again, they should not be afraid to do that.

51:51Dak is a 32 year old quarterback. Like now, now is the time. Like I really feel like you probably, you should only assume you've got like two more seasons of Dak playing at this level. Of course he could do it for a lot longer, but in terms of planning for the future, two or three more years of prime Dak, this should be the time when chips could get pushed in. You should not be afraid to leverage yourself. You should not be afraid to spend a little bit of money in free agency. You've got two first round picks because of the Micah trade. You shouldn't be afraid to pay George Pickens, by the way, which again, that's, that's the type of stuff that I want to see.

52:28Are you going to spend in free agency? Are you going to do this stupid bullshit again, where we're at training camp in August fighting over how much George Pickens is worth and, and having George Pickens like tweeting from wherever he does his off season because he won't be in camp because the Cowboys won't pay him spare me all of that and show me that you want to push your chips into a degree and take advantage of the fact that the Eagles weren't as good as you thought they would be and there's a little bit of turmoil there and the commanders are turning things over it's all there for you there's so many reasons why we could be really excited about the Cowboys but it's going to take a concerted effort from their decision makers to be that team and live up to that promise.

53:15And I'm not ready. I'm not ready to trust them to do it, but it could be an exciting couple of months if they decide to change their ways. I'm not necessarily ready to trust them to do it, but again, the two first round picks and also the thing I would say, I feel like usually when teams are trying to retool a little bit, one, obviously you don't have to think about quarterback, but even for teams that have quarterback, usually the thing that you're trying to retool and fix is the offensive line. They don't have to think about their offensive line. Like all those guys are locked in. Most of them are very young.

53:44It's not very expensive like this. The fact that those two things are kind of already solved for you. I feel like that opens up your avenues to do whatever you want a little bit more. They could cut Terrence Steele if they wanted to. Like if they felt like they weren't getting their bang for their buck. And that would open them up to draft a right tackle in the first round. Just complete the set. Just get a first round pick everywhere and piss everybody off in the process. I feel like we're kind of on the other side with Terrence Steele, though. Like the season that he had last year and the fact that he played pretty well last season compared to like what he what he looks like immediately coming off the injury.

54:17Like if you cut Terrence Steele and save what, like eight or so million dollars to do that, whatever the number is, that almost feels counterproductive. Like, I think you just kind of roll into the season with this group. Like I last year, I think I would have been more open to the idea moving on from him than I am now. Weirdly enough, I don't I don't think I would cut him. But I think people are going to look at his numbers. And if you're looking for ways to add cap space, I think people will bring that up. I don't think I would do it. I would just restructure Dak, restructure CD and Tyler Smith and Quinnen Williams.

54:48And like I said, just a handful of accounting maneuvers should give you all the space you need to work with. And I'm not even, I'm not asking for the Cowboys to break the bank and free agency. I don't think that is the right way for a team like this to spend their money. but you probably should come out of March with five or six guys that could play a meaningful role for you, which like for the Cowboys, that's a departure. They are the bottom barrel. They do not spend money. And so this is a March where I think you have to be willing to spend money, even if you're not splashing cash around. The way I look at it is they're in a race to fix the defense while the offense is still in this space.

55:26That's it. They're in a race against time. And I think you can probably bet on the offense being what it is for at least one more year, hopefully two more years. Can you get the defense up to speed fast enough for you to be competitive in the NFC in the next two years? And I'll be curious what the moves are that allow them to free some up some of these resources up. If they restructure Dak and they cut Kenny Clark and Logan Wilson, Kenny Clark's number is massive. And they save all of the money to move on from him. It's not that Kenny Clark is a bad player. It's just that the financials of that are very clean.

55:59And I think you could survive more with Kenny Clark than you could without like a Terrence deal, for example, if they do those things, they would have$30 million in cap space. Just, just with those three moves, the Pickens tag is the annoying part of this to me. Just extend him. Like if you're tagging him, you're it's$28 million against the cap. Like it's just going to hamstring you from doing other things. And so finding a way to extend him. And again, that like Dave was saying, that would be a departure because by extending him, what you're most likely going to do is you're going to give, it's going to leave me a low number in the first couple of years.

56:31You're going to push money out. You throw some void, things that they don't typically do, but I would like to see them do a few things they don't typically do in order to try to win this race against the offense with the defense. And I think that they're going to need to compromise on some of those traditional things. If they're going to end up doing that, they will obviously address this over the off season. Uh, in fact, they will certainly have to are you aware of who what edge rushers they have set to be on the roster for 2026 it's probably donovan ezaraku and sam williams is still in the last year of his deal right nope oh wow that happens he was drafted four years ago already it is it is donovan ezaraku and james houston who was like their fifth or sixth guy depending on how he'll sign on april 28th or August 28th.

57:22He'll be back. We'll resign in three months. Labor Day weekend. He'll be back. For now. Because, because yeah, Sam Williams is gone. Dante Fowler's deal is up. Peyton Turner, who was a backup for them, is also done like they, the entire edge room basically needs to be redone. It's kind of like I said, they got a like before you even get to the draft, let's just assume they double dip with their two first round picks on defense, which I think they probably would barring an upset. you still need four or five useful defenders added before the draft even happens like you got to cover yourself in the secondary you got to add some depth on the edge the linebacker room is a mess and so even if you're going to add two blue chip type of players in the draft that is that is not enough and yeah i mean i would love even if you tag pickens i would love to have pickings under contract by mid-March to help facilitate all of this.

58:15Am I optimistic that's going to happen? Not really. The team specific one that Derek was focusing on is a team that we've compared to the Cowboys actually a decent amount over the last couple of years. And that is the Cincinnati Bengals. And Derek, your question, what is the Bengals pivot after what they tried to sell us last year? I just want to know, like, how, how do they try to do this thing? Because obviously this is going to be an offense first team, no matter what their three most expensive players are the quarterback. I can tell you right now, by the way, I can tell you right now what the sales pitch is going to be.

58:46That there's just going to like be 5 % better than they were last year. And the secondary will play better. It's even more compelling than that. We have$54 million in cap space. We're going to do the same thing to the defense that we did in 2021. We're going to bring in like three or four free agents. We're going to microwave this thing. we're going to go from being this terrible unit to a more than passable one because we're going to spend this amount of money and because we do that and the offense is going to be what the offense is we're going to instantly be competitive again i do not believe that by the way i want to be clear about that right now i'm just saying that is what the company line easily could be and i get why it would be because that's what i was going to say is like they so they did that in like 2020 and 2021 they spent all these like mid-tier free agents and they kind of microwaved And then over the next like two years after that, they started drafting all these guys first and second round picks, especially up front.

59:43A couple of guys in the secondary. Most of them have not turned out. The secondary guys have been OK, but it's like, OK, the defense is really young. Now we kind of need to go back the other direction again and kind of get some veterans. But the issue to me is the reason that it worked the first time is it turns out Lou Anna Rumo was a really, really good defensive play caller and really got the most out of those guys. and it was a unit that was really fit to his vision and all that stuff. I am not confident that Al Golden is necessarily going to be that for them. And so even if they are better by microwaving it with some of these free agents, I don't know if they can hit the ceiling that they hit in 2021 and like over some of those runs.

1:00:22And so that's kind of where I get a little bit of like, I don't know how much that they can do this. They also, even outside of Trey Hendrickson, are losing a couple of other guys up front. Like I know Cam Sample, who has mostly been a run defender for them, but like he's going to leave so they got to fill in depth there like their offensive line is also still going to be a free agent that was the other one i was missing yes like they there's more retooling here even for some of the younger pieces than i think that you know maybe people realize the parallels between the bengals and cowboys are getting pretty eerie if we're being real but like just like the way they operate the fact that the owner is the general manager they have pro bowl, all pro quarterback play with two fantastic receivers spent draft picks on the offensive line.

1:01:09The defense is absolutely freaking terrible. The head coach is a college quarterback. I said, that's pretty, that's pretty interesting to me. Let's hit a couple more of these very quickly. Dave, you wanted to, you're a very player specific one. What happens with Namda Matabike this off season? I think it's worth bringing up for a couple of big reasons like a we don't know what's going on and i don't want to make light of this like nnamdi matabike was shut down for the season with a neck injury and you've heard whispers going all the way back to the season that this might be it for him like he might have to retire because of this injury i don't like i don't know that i haven't heard that much about it but clearly i I mean, clearly this was a serious injury, the way that he was shut down for the vast majority of the season.

1:01:59And then we get to the off season. And again, like, this is just, this is just stupid speculation, but like Nnamdi Matabike during the lead up to the Superbowl, he's tweeting things like good news. And he tweeted a photo of a passage from a book that said you either quit or keep going. They both hurt. Choose wisely. Just absolute. What's the, what's the old Denny Carter tweet about like wide receivers set like the enemy speaks softly and carries a knife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just the peak off season, confusing, vague posting by Nnamdi Matabike. But it's very interesting to think the Ravens like lose an all pro caliber player at the very beginning of the season.

1:02:47That's obviously a huge part of their defensive build. and why the defense wasn't as good as what we had gotten used to. And it is just enormous to me to think what it might mean for Baltimore if he comes back and is available to Jesse mentor and what they're trying to build there. Hopefully that's true. And if he's not, then clearly it's a very serious injury. I'm not saying he should forego his long-term health. Please do whatever's right for you. but that is among the biggest potential additions that nobody's talking about, in my opinion, where like you just don't have one of your very best players for basically the entire 2025 season.

1:03:27And if he's available moving forward, it immediately changes the calculus of what I think the Ravens are capable of. Like if he's part of that front, then all of a sudden I'm like, yes, we can get this up to snuff in one off season and the Ravens can be back where I thought they'd be. he gives you a centerpiece of your pass rush immediately i mean like he can be that that was kind of the thing with like oh you know their pass rush wasn't as good last year and maybe some of that was you know zach war just wasn't calling it as good as mike mcdonald was and you know they had lost some of the edge pieces that they had at the peak of mike mcdonald and stuff like that but yeah it's that namdi madabike had been your best pass rusher even at like the peak of what the mcdonald defenses had been in 2023 and so to lose him pretty much outright was just like it's brutal and also like that on top of the Ravens defense in general was kind of banged up for the first half of the season and so obviously that on top of how good a player he had been and was missing it's just like it's a lot if they get him back that that goes a very very long way for this defense last one here Dave you wanted to talk about the way some of the draft picks are allocated in the first round and the fact that we have four teams that control an outsized portion of the first round in this draft.

1:04:39And it'll be worth watching how they wield some of that power. Yeah, I think it's just unusual to have this many teams with multiple first round picks. The Rams have to, the Jets have to, the Cowboys have to, and the Browns have to. And that means a four teams could potentially be making a lot of picks or conceivably could those teams use those picks to do something else? Like, are you trying to maneuver around the draft board? Are you using the extra capital to trade for a veteran player among that group? I think the Rams and the Cowboys are more interesting because they're closer to contending.

1:05:18I mean, the Rams are a contender now. So if you're L.A. and you got that close to a championship, obviously, it sounds really fun to just add two first round picks to your roster or less need being the original them picks guy like he could try to send one of those picks somewhere for a player or the The Rams trying to balance the present with the future is also very interesting to me. Like, could you try to identify a quarterback? I wouldn't expect it to be the 13th overall pick, but picking down there at 29, I think that's realistic. So how they juggle that again, how the Cowboys have a huge chance to completely rework their defense, assuming they do anything in free agency if they hit on these, these two first round picks.

1:06:03So just the fact that a small handful of teams have have so much sway in the first round is something I've got a close eye on. And I kind of I don't know. My intuition says we're not going to get to the draft with all four of those teams having the exact picks that they do right now. I feel like something's going to happen. I think that's probably the only one I think the only one I think is funny is the Jets. given that they have the second overall pick in a class that has one quarterback I think it would be very easy even with their other first round pick to be like well just trade that get as many assets as you can all that stuff but because they already kind of have so many others in next year's draft because of the because of the gardener because yeah it's just like I don't really know if trading back any further actually helps you and so they're kind of in a spot where it sucks to have the second overall pick in this class obviously you know you can still get a really good player but like this is a spot where you would want to trade down but like at a certain point you need players and just acquiring that amount of picks is like you can't really field an entire roster of 22 year olds it's just it doesn't really work that way the browns of the team that i think they would i think they should be in a place where they're maneuvering to find more draft capital for next year because they don't have an additional first round pick in 2027 And so is there a player at six that people want where you can move down to the middle of the first round, add potentially a first in 2027 and then position yourself that way?

1:07:29Like they're the team I think that needs to do it the most. The Rams, I'm so interested in, do they take some sort of dice roll on a quarterback this off season? Is this, is this the spring where they do it? So they're not scrambling next year or do they feel like, man, if we use those first round picks on players or we trade for a veteran that allows us to like pry open this window, maybe a little bit longer. I'm very, very curious how they eventually approach that. I don't envy that decision because you were so close and it, it's so tempting to just push it all in. And if anybody would be willing to do it, it's the Rams, but would you be better off at least somewhat thinking about the future with some of these resources?

1:08:12Well, I almost think because there's not another like great first round quarterback in theory, it's like, it kind of makes the decision for them right and they could still take a guy in like the second or third round or whatever but like I almost think it like frees up their thinking with the first round picks of like you know what there's not a guy we don't gotta squint take a tackle take a corner let's write let's write off and try to do this next year I think you're right I think you're right but the way attitudes and thought processes change as these teams get involved in the draft cycle like what we think on February 12th usually changes pretty dramatically by the time the draft is in sight.

1:08:52And so I, I do think you're right, but I'm, I'm going to be interested to see if there's a fly in the ointment. All right. That is all we've got that this show in my mind kind of does like put a period at the end of the sentence for the season. I feel that way every single year. Next week, we will be starting kind of our off season cadence. Dave and I will both be on vacation next week. And so things will look and sound a little bit different. We are recording a mailbag that will be running on Monday. The mailbags are back. Athletic football show at gmail.com. Just keep sending them in because we're going to keep doing them.

1:09:28Also, we're prioritizing questions that we get in the discord. And so this is the time if you have not joined the discord, please do. I mean, that thing is roaring with conversation all day, every day, even in the off season right now, we have got, I think at least 2 ,500 people in there. And so again, we will be prioritizing some of the questions we get in there. So if you haven't joined, that's a really good reason to start. So the description or the link to the discord is in the show description. If you guys are wondering how to do that, it's very easy. If I can figure it out, I promise that you guys can figure it out.

1:10:00We'll be having one more show next week. So we'll have two total coming your guys' way. I believe that's true. Yes. So two shows next week with me and Dave gone. We will be back for Combine Week. We'll have five shows coming your guys' way, Combine Week. And so after a small break, we are back in full force two weeks from now. Very much looking forward to that. For now, that is all we got. I appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.

1:10:34We'll be right back.