Broncos, in spite of their offense, beat Seahawks 17-14 on TNF

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2:06Robert Mays: Discover your sense of place at Pura.com. Welcome to The Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. What a game. Truly what a game. We had so much fun going back and forth in the slack and recording this show. Just an absolute blast. What a bizarre football game between the Seahawks and the Broncos. So much to dig into with that game, some of the performances, what we could possibly take away from this thing with me, Dave, and Derek. Let's get to that conversation right now.

2:44Robert Mays: Oh, man. My mic is all the way over here. I'm like, I'm... Give me a second. We're not ready. We're not game ready. That's thrown off. Give me a second. Oh my god I'm like That's so embarrassing I'm like so My mind is just completely Like broken After what we just watched Good thing my mic clicked on On the first try That was one of the most Remarkable football games I've ever seen In my entire life I cannot wait to talk about it All I want to do right now Is talk like Jim Downey And Billy Madison For the next half hour Just We are all so much dumber for everything that we just watched. May God have mercy on every single one of our souls.

3:28Robert Mays: There are 10 bewildering things about what just took place, and I really don't even know where to start the conversation.

3:37Dave Helman: I want to start here, because for a while, this game was just regular bad. When did the flip switch for you, where you kind of realized that you were watching a colossal car crash?

3:50Derrik Klassen: You said flip switch. Our brains are just cooked right now.

3:54Robert Mays: Honestly, this is maybe a weird moment, but I think this was it. There was a play after the Seahawks scored the touchdown where it was first and 10, and Bo Nix ran out of bounds for a three-yard sack for no reason. Bingo! Bingo! That was the moment where I was like, we are watching something truly special in this moment. I think that was it.

4:20Derrik Klassen: Not to be a contrarian, because that was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen so far this season. But even before that, when when George Helani decides that he's Marshawn Lynch after what we've seen from him for the last two weeks and just sort of Marshawn Lynch, he was Marshawn Lynch.

4:39Robert Mays: If Marshawn Lynch was carried by five players on every carry of his career. What about the touchdown?

4:44Derrik Klassen: The touchdown was incredible. he just leapt leapt over that guy and bulldozed Brandon Jones into the end zone and then when the two-point conversion happened I was just like all right we're getting drunk baby let's go let's some bullshit though you can't bring cool plays to this conversation that's not what this is about

5:03Dave Helman: the two-point is a little bit of both the two-point with that they'd feel like a Sam Darnell this game is about to end in a stupid way he was begging to throw another interception

5:12Derrik Klassen: and then it's a two-point conversion. Just a ridiculous night all around for everyone.

5:19Robert Mays: I was keeping track of the stats in real time. I want to just say them before I forget to say them. On the game, Bo Nix averaged 0.6 air yards per completion. 0.6. No. He completed 17 passes in the game. one of them was beyond the sticks. And I don't think it was. I think that was the throw that they marked short. When is the one? Because I don't remember it happening. But either way,.6 air yards per attempt. When I checked the stats at one point in the third quarter and tweeted them out, he was at 1.2 air yards per completion. 85 % of his stats of his passing yards at that point per next gen had come after the catch 85 %

6:15Dave Helman: this like it was all screen because they only had the two touchdown they had the two touchdown drives which was like all screens and runs and then after that I know at one point Greg Rosenthal tweeted this out the five drives after that they had a single first down one because they were basically not trying to play football after that.

6:34Derrik Klassen: You know what the crazy thing is? If I can, I'll, I just want to be halfway earnest for a minute. I'm not trying to absolve anybody, but I mean, they, they jumped out to a 14 to three lead. Right. And in the early going of this game, they were not impressive throws, but Bo was just taking the little digs and the little crossers. He hit Ingram here. He hit Sutton there. And I was like, Hey man, if you're just, you,

6:57Robert Mays: you just listed them by the way, he had sun on the crosser and then they had the one, there was a third down where they bled out the coverage and he threw it underneath to Ingram on the check down. And he ran for a first down. Those are the two real passes that were completed by the team that won this

7:17Derrik Klassen: game. So I, so in the first half I was like, this is not impressive, but if you're just going to take the four yards that the Seahawks will give you all night. Maybe you can get there. And then the Seahawks clamped down on that too. And we got a half of swing passes and whatever the hell else. And it, it evaporated quickly, I guess,

7:39Robert Mays: is what I was trying to say. I was ready to have a conversation at halftime about how impressive what we had seen from the Broncos was. I thought that there, the play calling from Sean Payton and the situational decisions he was making in the first half, I was incredibly impressed by. like there was that stretch where the they hit two screens they had a really nice sequence and then the third and three fourth and three sequence they had on the touchdown drive where it's third and three near midfield they take a shot off play action which i absolutely loved and then on fourth and three they run the ball on fourth and three they get great movement on byron murphy because he's literally standing up in the b gap because they just didn't think they would run the ball on fourth and three.

8:25Robert Mays: So that was excellent. That third and eight play I'm talking about where they bleed it out to Ingram. Still a good design. I mean, Mike McDonald said at halftime to Kelly Hartung, he's like, we need to be more matchy on third down. That's a play he was talking about. Like there were a lot of moments there. It was like seven minutes left in the second quarter. They had like a gun run on third and one where they did a really good job of yanking love out of the fit because Waddle was in like this weird split back look like they did some really good stuff. in the first half offensively to manufacture offense against this defense.

8:57Robert Mays: And somehow what they did in the first half was pretty much enough for them to win the game.

9:04Dave Helman: I just it was because at a certain point, you know that you're not going to get four quarters like that against Mike McDonald. That's the thing. You're never going to get four quarters like that against Mike McDonald. So the fact that they got two was really impressive. I thought they would have had something more in the second half. That was it, man.

9:21Robert Mays: They emptied the tank in half number one. That's all you did.

9:24Dave Helman: And like, if that is all that you have, listen, I don't know if we need to do this conversation now. You cannot run an NFL offense if this is all that you can call and all you're willing to throw. Like, I just don't know what you're supposed to do because honestly, too, it's not even just the passing game stuff. They were running the ball relatively well in the first half. And then that kind of died away in the second half, too. Like, all of it just kind of, the offense completely collapsed. and this was also not like a not to absolve Sam Darnold of some of the plays that he made but especially in the first half Denver was getting after his ass as with the pass rush that was the

10:00Robert Mays: story of the game the story of the game was those two drives and some of the play calling just situational stuff from the Broncos that I really liked some of the run game design stuff like that play where they had Ingram sifting across and Ernest Jones gets lost in the wash they have like a 16 yard run on that play there was a lot of nice stuff and then the front dominated they They dominated. I mean, Abe Lucas was just all over the place in this game. They were rotating in the right guards. Like, they got dominated. And that, to me, was the story of this for a very long time. And in actuality, it is the story to a degree because that's the reason the Broncos were able to win the game.

10:35Robert Mays: But then the game just completely devolves over the last, like, 15 minutes where I'm just, like, slowly drifting downward into insanity as that's happening. I thought Broncos Raiders last year was, would break me. This one broke me. This is like, I don't, I am permanently a changed man because of what happened in the final 15 minutes of that football game.

11:02Derrik Klassen: Can I at least sell you on the Seahawks being a better team than the, than last year's Las Vegas Raiders? Is that, is that anything? Absolutely.

11:10Dave Helman: You can. And honestly, like, I kind of appreciate the Seahawks like rallying back the way that they did

11:16Derrik Klassen: in some ways in the second half of this game. Wait, real, okay, so you mentioned the, you know, when Bo sacked himself and just ran out of bounds. Correct. Also, don't forget, like, the one time he was willing to throw in the second half was back across his body, running away from pressure, and he just led Cortland Sutton into a headshot from Spoon. Like, that was the one time he was willing to try something, And it was like the most reckless thing I saw all night. Just a weird game. The like when Bo Nix was willing to try stuff, what the Broncos were willing to let him do, which was basically nothing.

11:57Derrik Klassen: Yeah. And I think that's a valid point. Like this would not have been a pretty game no matter what. But up until the start of the fourth quarter, I would have been like, hell yeah, Broncos. You choked out the Seahawks and out defense to the Seahawks defense. Like on a short week that that counts for something. And I mean, it still does. They're four and two. Nobody gives a shit how you get them. But just the goofiness of the last 20 minutes of game time changed it a solid amount.

12:25Robert Mays: I want to be very clear. It comes for a lot. Like what Vance Joseph and the defense did for a huge chunk of this game without their final play without their corners. I think Chris Abrams drain is a player. Yes. Is that weird? Like I just know like he's played well. He's had to play in spot duty. I consistently walk away from these games impressed with him.

12:48Derrik Klassen: How about the fact that so Chris Abrams drain was fantastic in this game. And you talk about Abe Lucas having a long night. Q Robinson was all over his ass. All over the place. And Benito too. I mean, he cooked Benito.

13:02Dave Helman: Jonah Ellis had a couple of plays like the depth players on this defense were really impressive today.

13:06Derrik Klassen: It just, it was really funny because throughout the game, I was like, Chris Abramstrain and Q Robinson are balling. And then they should have won the game because Q Robinson pressured Sam on the pick with a minute and a half left. And Chris Abramstrain got the pick. And it was like the two young guys stepped up and won this game. And then of course, Denver couldn't get 10 yards to put the game away to save their life. So let's talk about that sequence because that is where things got amazing.

13:34Robert Mays: It's third and eight. the other team has one timeout. Last week, in the middle of a game, you ran the ball on third and eight because you did not trust your offense's ability to pick up a first down. In this situation, where if you run the ball, the other team has to use their final timeout, this is when they decide to throw it. not only is that choice just completely removed from reality it's a screen where it's slow developing and if the quarterback just wanted to eat it understanding that there's nothing passive that's going to happen if he throws the ball that is available to him instead they throw an incompletion and give the ball back to the seahawks with a minute left and a timeout now in a three-point game.

14:27Dave Helman: It was, given how that play unfolds, the right play there is to sack himself, which this is a rare quarterback.

14:34Robert Mays: He did it multiple times today. He was fairly comfortable with it.

14:37Dave Helman: It is, I cannot imagine there are that many games in NFL history where a quarterback sacked themselves when they shouldn't without being touched and then had a play where they needed to sack themselves and then didn't and made the wrong play. That is like a one in a thousand million sort of play.

14:54Derrik Klassen: Not to mention it wasn't that far away from like Uchinonuosu making an incredible play. And all of a sudden Seattle's either got the ball or Seattle scores a touchdown and you've just given the game away.

15:06Dave Helman: That's the thing. He doesn't even try to like pop it over him or around him or anything. He just like throws it at his chest. I was like, what are we doing?

15:15Robert Mays: Let's not absolve the Seahawks quarterback for some of the moments in the second half of this game. I mean that the offense is really unsettled right now. And I think most of the problems for most of the game come down to the things that were happening up front. And it started immediately, right? I mean, Vance Joseph really establishing his supremacy in this game started immediately. They get two unblocked sacks on the first drive, right? I mean, so they had them spinning the entire game. And so I understand if you're Sam in this game and he made some nails throws to give them a shot to win this thing.

15:48Robert Mays: And JSN, which we can talk about, what an insane, ridiculous player JSN is. And so them kind of clawing themselves back, I give Darnold credit for that. And I understand why he felt a little bit unsettled over this entire thing, just because the offensive line had absolutely no shot. But both of those picks, I mean, Kirk tried to lay it at Torrey Horton a little bit for drifting upfield on that crosser, but that's a late throw that just can't be made. and then the last one, I think it's a decision thing on the last interception. It's also a really funky coverage that they were running a lot in this game.

16:25Robert Mays: I don't know how you would describe it, Derek. It's almost like a three cloud type thing. That's what I would call it, yeah. So it's McMillan's in the slot and I understand explaining this when you can't see the visuals, it's kind of stupid, but they did it a lot and it was a huge moment in the game. McMillan's in the slot and he bails out to the deep half while you have a post safety and a cover three corner. So it's essentially just like a cloud coverage where Abrams drain is now in the flat. And so you're really doing a good job of clouding that side. They did it to JSN side a lot. It's just a funky coverage.

16:56Robert Mays: It's hard to see for the quarterback. And so I get why he thought maybe he could fit that in there because he probably didn't know exactly what he was looking at. But it's still a really tough decision in that moment.

17:06Dave Helman: It's a tough decision. And I thought that that was such a cool, cool coverage call in that moment to run like that. Just a weird three cloud there because I did on third down a lot.

17:14Robert Mays: They did it on third, third down several times in the game, and it was a third and seven. And so clearly they saw something where it was like in defined third and pass. We think we can tap into this because they did it a bunch of different times in this game. I don't know how many, three or four.

17:27Dave Helman: And I think why it's so bothersome, too, in a lot of ways is like we see teams a lot take the nickel and bail him out to a half. Right. But usually they just run cover to like it just becomes a cover to everywhere. They were running it where it's basically cover three on the backside. And so if you're a quarterback who's used to seeing all these defensive coordinators like, oh, the nickel bails it to half. OK, I can go backside to this. Well, that's not what you're getting in this game. You're getting a little bit more of cover three on the backside. And so it's just it's one of those little things that if we can mess with the quarterback and what his established like beliefs are about the coverages he's seeing.

17:59Dave Helman: At a certain point, you're just going to get him being like, I just got to jam a ball in there. And if it fits, it fits. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

18:04Robert Mays: I like it as an idea against this team specifically because you're taking away the verticals to the front side that he wants to take. and then that you know he's willing to come back to the middle of the field on the backside. And I just thought a lot of the things that they were doing consistently throughout this game, where they're playing man, but they're having the dropper squeeze JSN on some of those inbreakers, the consistent ability for the Broncos defense to take away the middle of the field in this game, knowing that is where Seattle wants to do a lot of their damage. They did it really well, and they did it on the play that ultimately won them the game.

18:36Derrik Klassen: I don't do this every week. We've talked about it. It's a funky watch just for various reasons, the camera movement, as well as just being conditioned to watch the broadcast angle. But I watched the prime angle for a lot of this game. And Sam Darnold's job looked really hard tonight. Like the, I mean, the pressure was unbelievable. And on top of that, the Broncos did a phenomenal job clogging things. They got JSN open over the middle fairly consistently in the second half, but it was few and far between, man. Even that though, man, those were high level throws. Yeah, those are high level throws getting them to him.

19:15Dave Helman: Denver made them earn it. Like if they wanted to throw those and catch those, they were like, you're going to take your licks and you're going to have to play the rest of this game knowing that.

19:24Robert Mays: The touchdown drive, the initial touchdown drive. He has a 16 yard completion, 16 yard reception to get that drive started. If you go back and watch that play, it was probably Abrams drain. Abrams drain is sitting there in heavy, heavy inside leverage. And JSN's like, all right, I know, come hell or high water, I got to win inside some way on this play. He releases outside and then gives him like a little shake and then somehow works all the way back inside against that like heavy inside leverage, catches the slant and takes it for 16 yards. If you just at first glance, like, oh, he won on a slant and it was a 16 yard gain.

20:01Robert Mays: But how what he had to do to even get there was insane. And then on the fourth down conversion, he knows that there's somebody trying to decapitate him on that play. And his ability in this game consistently to make those plays over the middle of the field while getting down at the same time, almost weirdly, it's a strange comparison. It reminds me of Lamar Jackson. like what Lamar can do spatially on some of those runs and where his ability to understand where people are and get him down to protect himself it just shows an unbelievable situational and spatial awareness that is only attributed to the rarest players in football and he did it several different times tonight like it how many yards did he end up with and how many yards did they have I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.

20:53Robert Mays: They in the game. Okay. The Seahawks finished with 278 passing yards. 50 of those were on the chunk go ball to Rashid Shahid on the day. JSN finished with one 34.

21:09Dave Helman: So he finished 18 of that was in the second half alone.

21:13Robert Mays: I mean, and again, it's not just the production. It's how hard the production was. And that chunk play that they get. It's a good throw by Darnold into traffic. Go back and watch how JSN has to come back to that ball in the traffic. He flattens out at the last second to take it away from the two guys who are sitting there waiting to either kill him or make a play on the football. Just an insane otherworldly player. He's unbelievable.

21:42Derrik Klassen: You're talking about the 32-yard post, right? That's what makes you feel romantic about football. Like if it was Sunday, I would be lobbying for that. The whole thing, really. I mean, you're right about the catch, but really sick throw by Sam Darnold to like being willing to do that and trusting that Jason's going to make him look smart. And it was not enough. No, no. Well, he threw a pick like two plays later. Yeah.

22:08Dave Helman: Yeah. I do want to talk about how the Seahawks deserve to lose this game for all the stupid stuff they did. And I would like to go back through all the stupid stuff that they did. First of all, Sam Darnold in the middle of the third quarter takes a sack while they're in field goal range. And it adds like he did it twice. Yeah, exactly. It adds like eight yards onto the first one so they can still kick the field goal, but it makes it much harder than it needs to be. They missed that one.

22:31Robert Mays: Q Robinson on that, too, by the way, Dave. That was the that was the he had the initial pressure in this game, too.

22:37Derrik Klassen: Yep. I wrote Q Robinson's name in my notes probably seven times tonight. Keep going with the stupid stuff, Derek.

22:43Dave Helman: So, yes, field goal. Number one, stupid stuff. field goal number field goal potential number two situation is he takes two sacks in a row and uh one is on the it's the third and 11 on the denver 41 so it's a tough spot but the check down is coming open to his left and aj barner i think one of the tight ends is out to the right hand side if he wants to throw that earlier like there are ways to get four yards here and we get a makeable field goal and he does not do that and then you have that on top of uh going into halftime with about two and a half minutes left. Rashid Shahid fumbles on the 35 yard line when they were in terms of like piecing it together.

23:18Dave Helman: That was one of their cleanest drives of the day. They had like six positive plays in a row and then Rashid Shahid fumbles. And it's just like they left so many points on the board doing stuff like that, just like completely botching it right when they're in field goal range. And so even if you only needed to make one of those to have won this game and you had three opportunities that you completely squandered.

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27:32Robert Mays: What do you make just about how the offense looks overall? Do you think that there's something inherently just. Searching for words at 11 p.m. after watching that game. just inherently kind of broken is too strong a word. But do you think there's something that's at issue with just the way the offense is functioning right now? Or do you think that he is having problems seeing it coming back from injury? Like, how would you try to divvy that up? I know that's hard in real time, but just your sense of what you're watching right now.

28:00Dave Helman: I think for a few reasons, the offense now is asking Sam Darnold to do more of the things that he's not that good at, which is be in the shotgun a little bit more and try to be more of a one to 12 yard, keep things efficient sort of passer. That's just not what he's ever been good at. He wasn't good at that last year because even when they needed those types of passes, it would be third and two and they were just going to empty. And so it wasn't that much early down drop back. And I think there's a couple of reasons for that. The reason they were able to do it as well last year is they really committed to the under center run game.

28:32Dave Helman: Well, when you had your running backs that you wanted, that was a little bit easier to do. And there is where it all starts, right?

28:38Robert Mays: I mean, that is where it all starts. It's the fact that you don't have that as like the engine of the offense and you can't really lean on that. They tried to do some play action stuff today and it was actually, Vance Joseph was so good tonight, man. Coming in, I was looking at some of the tendency stuff because the Broncos were really ready for play action on second and long because the Stucks had to do it multiple different times. They tried to run like a seven-man pro two-route concept into like a two-high shell. It was a non-starter. And then they tried to run a boot later in the game like a naked.

29:07Robert Mays: And I want to say it was... I must say it was Benito, but it was on the right side, but it might not have been Benito coming off the right side. Just didn't even pay attention to the fake whatsoever. Screams at Darnold. There's nowhere for him to go with it. It's incomplete. The Seahawks this year have the second highest play action rate in the NFL on second and long. On second and long, they run play action on 48 % of their plays. And so them saying like, we dare you. But like, we know this is what you want to do. You're going to have to run it on us in these situations before we respect how this is all supposed to fit together for you.

29:39Robert Mays: To me, that speaks to how they're not, they felt like they were dictating so much last year, all the time in terms of how the game was going to go on that side of the ball because of the under center play action stuff, the heavy personnel stuff. And it just does not feel like they're even close to that level right now and making sure they're the ones dictating the terms when the Seahawks are on offense. That's my read on it.

30:01Derrik Klassen: it is interesting to me that like Anthony Bradford is not in there right now. Anthony Bradford was the weak point of that offensive line. Most people would agree all the way through. And so losing the worst player on the offensive line shouldn't make it look like this. At least I don't think so. And I'm still out there and he had the roughest night at anybody. I mean, maybe him and the guards combined, but it was tough for Abe Lucas like all night long. I know it, Maybe it sounds lazy or like cope because I know injuries are part of this, but I'm just, I'm not going to judge the Seahawks too deeply until I see what they look like with two high level running backs.

30:42Derrik Klassen: And, and I anticipate that that will happen soon. I mean, if, you know, Charbonnet practiced this week, they didn't make them available on a short week. Charbonnet hopefully prices shortly after that I think that'll matter I don't know if it'll look as good as it did last year because Kubiak obviously you know based on what he's doing with the Raiders that's a huge part of this too but I think this can be fine when they're more three-dimensional than they are right now let's take a big picture because I think that's the

31:11Robert Mays: logical place to end this with Seattle even if it looks uneven on offense right now that's the word I was looking for before, by the way, I talker, even if it looks uneven on offense right now, new coordinator, first six weeks of the season, they deserve some grace here. I think we should have some patience and them finding their footing on that side of the ball. We know what the defense is. I mean, even if you can quibble with how teams have run the ball on them in certain situations compared to what it looked like last year, like we're still picking nits. Like that's still a really, really good championship caliber unit.

31:44Robert Mays: The offense, I think, can potentially find its level over the course of the year if you give a new coordinator a little bit more time and you give them some running backs. What's the conversation with the Broncos?

31:58Dave Helman: That's a great question. And I guess that they're hoping that the defense is even better when the corners come back, but that doesn't fix the offense, the offense at all. And the offense, like I know Pat Bryant is missing. They have like most of their guys out there. Like the offensive line is healthy. You have your quarterback like you have most of your receivers. I know Jalen Waddle missed the second half of this game, but like he was in there for

32:18Derrik Klassen: a little bit, though, like he can't he like he wasn't completely gone in the second half.

32:23Dave Helman: He's and he's been gone from the offense anyway. Like they have not figured out a way to access him to begin with. So I really don't know what the fix is, because, too, I think sometimes when offenses are crumbling, they're sputtering, they're struggling. It has something to do with how the offensive line is playing. that is so obviously not the case with Denver the Seattle Seahawks pass rush could not get to the

32:46Robert Mays: quarterback today the pass rush plan the pass protection plan in the first half and how they were picking off some of those pressures I was like my god I mean they had there was one it was a six-man pressure it was in plus territory and they before the snap it's the center and the right guard it's uh wattenberg and minors they call it out they see it they call a four-man slide to the left they slide the running back it's but uh beaty who's a really good pass protector he pops right across he's on the left side and shotgun pops right across the b gap picks up the blitzing linebacker man for man they pick up the six-man pressure and bow completes the crosser that was the difference in the first half because they looked like that against those pressures and the seahawks looked like they looked.

33:32Robert Mays: So, and that's what I, it's such a good point because that's what's so weird about this. When you have an offense that feels like it's rotting from the inside, it's often because you're having those sorts of issues and they're having the opposite of those sorts of issues. And so I just don't know what to do with that.

33:51Derrik Klassen: This is purely my agenda because I bought a bill of goods about what Jalen Waddell could do to this offense. And I just, I have to own that.

34:03Robert Mays: His wife has Jalen Waddle and fantasy, man. So do I, damn it.

34:09Derrik Klassen: I got Jalen Waddle and fantasy. I got the Broncos in the wind pool. Like I'm sweating over here, man. They're four and two. You're doing fine. But my, my devil's advocate argument would be what changed for them last year. They didn't like swing some trade that changed the trajectory of their offense and they never were great. Right. but they played that Raiders game in like week 10 or week 11. It was week 10. Yeah. And, and, and mind you throughout the whole early going of the season, I mean, don't like they had some better games than this, but like they played that horrific fricking jets game.

34:46Derrik Klassen: They played that Texans game where CJ Stroud got concussed and they still had to walk them off with a fuel goal. The Broncos are not new to this. This is kind of who they are. And at some point it clicked into enough of a gear that you could count on Bo Nix to help you score 24 plus points. And I, I don't have a lot of faith that that's going to happen based on what we've seen through five, six weeks, but maybe, I don't know. Maybe the guy just needs time on task or something because it started off somewhat similarly to this last year, to the point where we were, we threw them out. We didn't want to talk about them anymore after that Raider game and they lost one more game the rest of the way.

35:31Derrik Klassen: So I, I, I don't know what to do with it. I don't feel confident in the Broncos and I don't think they're going to win as many games as they did last year. But if the defense is doing that without Patrick Sertan, you got a hell of a lot of leeway for Bo Nix to screw around with. And if he can kind of find some sort of rhythm that is anything more than what you've got in the last two or three weeks, this is clearly a pretty good, albeit frustrating team.

35:58Robert Mays: You got to figure out a way to manufacture as many shots as you can. Yeah. I think that's the answer.

36:04Derrik Klassen: They did. They took two in the first half and they hit spoon for the DPI to get them to the goal line. And you could argue the first one should have been a DPI too. And again, none of this is encouraging, but I don't know. Just keep at it, I guess.

36:19Robert Mays: I was going back and rewatching a lot of stuff over the Jags Packers. I can't remember what the third game was. He had like a three game stretch in the back half of last year where the offense was humming a little bit. And I was just trying to refresh myself on what were the things that they were doing that they're not doing now as to why it looked that way. And there are a couple plays. I can't remember. I think it was a Packer game where the Packers spin out to cover two in the red zone. And he does hit the in breaker for, it might've been a touchdown, but it was the inside left hash. Yes. And so, and like there were a couple of those, but other than that man it's a lot of scheme shots and go balls like that is what felt different about the offense and it's not all straight go balls they had the one play i think it was against jacksonville where remember they had ingram on that big big crosser from left to right as they had the two like two posts coming from the left to clear it out like if you give him space he is willing to push the ball down the field a little bit but the act of like playing quarterback and playing the plays in the intermediate area of the field.

37:21Robert Mays: It's worse now than it was, but it's always been bad. And so, and I think it's just getting exacerbated now. When you were talking, Dave, I was, this is what I was reacting to. Ryan Fitzpatrick on the post-game show right now just said, Bo Nix is not playing competitively. It's almost disrespectful to the quarterback position, how he's playing football. Correct. I can't remember anything like that. Usually the quarterbacks will not do that. well it's funny I did a story on him in 2021 and I spent a lot of time with him down at his house in Arizona and at one point in the conversation he was just railing against these younger guys that just refuse to push the ball down the field not surprising right not at all surprising when you're thinking about the messenger but if any any former quarterback was going to have that reaction to what we're watching right now Ryan Fitzpatrick is the guy that would but it's still really jarring to hear that from a guy in his chair because you just don't see that very much us assholes do this where we talk about the players that way the quarterbacks typically do not that i think that's really telling even if he is the one that is most prone to saying something

38:32Derrik Klassen: about it the plays sean payton was calling for bo nix in a get a first down and we all go home situation is all you need. Like that's, that was disrespectful. If I was Bo Nix and I was getting those play calls, I would be like, damn, you don't think anything of me. Do you? That was like army Navy play calls.

38:53Dave Helman: That was like, we don't think we have a competitive quarterback.

38:57Derrik Klassen: QB power on three. Let's go. The four and two Denver Broncos, the four and two stupid team, man. All you got to do is have more points than the other team. That's just win the games. It doesn't matter how.

39:14Robert Mays: All right. That's all we got for tonight. What a game. Well, I'll remember this one for a long time. I will remember this one for a long, long time. That was special. That was absolutely special. All right. If you're watching this on YouTube, our week six preview will be out at noon central on Friday. If you're new to the channel, highly encourage you guys to like and subscribe. We're doing this all the time. Maybe having a little less fun, but trying to on the channel all the time. If you want to listen, it's also available on your podcast feed. The week six preview will be available right now if you're watching this on Friday.

39:50Robert Mays: So please check that out. We will be back on Sunday night for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.

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