Building the Beast: Drew Mestemaker back on the NFL Draft radar after Oregon upset

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2:21Maybe you haven't heard about yet in the early college football season. Great episode. Great conversation with my guy, Dane Brugler. Let's get right to it.

2:39Well, Dane, we built it up a fair amount heading into the weekend. And I got to say Week two of the college football season absolutely delivered on the hype in a lot of ways. But for the hype and expectation that we're placing on this quarterback class, it was really exciting to know on Saturday night. We were going to have some quarterback stuff to talk about on Building the Beast. And we're going to hit some other topics at some points during the show. We're going to talk about a lot of players involved in these games. But in this episode, we do really want to focus on some quarterbacks because we saw some stuff on Saturday, man.

3:16And it's fascinating because I think there's so many different ways to interpret the quarterback outings that we saw, whether it's Texas, Ohio State or Oregon, Oklahoma State or some of the other quarterback performances. There's different ways to interpret it. It's still week two, right? There's still a lot of season left to go where the narratives will change based on how the rest of the season plays out. But to your point, I think this is a it was a fun weekend without a doubt of quarterback play. And then now it's like, OK, let's go back to the tape, rewatch it and see if we can come up with some, you know, So hard and fast opinions about where we are in terms of is this class living up to the hype that we placed on it?

4:03Or not we, but the collective we in this being a quarterback class that we'll be talking about for a long time. Are we there or are we still it's still more of an idea than something that we're seeing on the field? So, yeah, a lot to talk about. Which game do you want to start with? so it would be easy to start with Ohio State Texas but we're not going to do that like we have plenty to say and we're going to talk about Arch we're going to talk about Jeremiah Smith and Julian saying and the Buckeyes don't get me wrong but what you just said is why I want to start somewhere else I want to start with Oklahoma State Oregon because and I'll I'll gladly take the mea culpa for this.

4:47We know it's a long season. We know we shouldn't rush to judgment, but when Drew Mestemaker started his season completing 50 % and throwing two picks and looking overmatched by Tulsa, it was really easy for me to say, all right, Drew Mestemaker, you're still a very interesting player, but I'm just, I'm putting you on the back burner because there's no way that, that this is going to be overly exciting if that's what week one looked like. And it took precisely seven days for Drew Mestemaker to make me look like an idiot because what a performance against Oregon. And on top of that, we know Oregon beat Oklahoma State like 69 to three.

5:30Just an absolute smackdown last year. So you combine Mestemaker's week one performance with what this matchup looked like just a year ago. And even in the transfer portal era where, you know, where Oklahoma State's bringing in all these North Texas guys, even with different rosters, it was hard for me to imagine this was going to look dramatically, dramatically different. And boy, did it everybody drew Mestemaker. And now I don't want to get too high and put the guy into the first round of the draft after one game, but talk about salvaging your reputation after a low, low to open the season. And Drew Mestemaker just put a lot of really exciting stuff on tape in a thrilling upset of Oregon.

6:18So that's where I would like to start is analyzing his day. I was hoping you'd say you want to start there. Because, yeah, Mestemaker, man, talk about a 180 performance. And I think that, like, you don't need to apologize for, you know, because I was with you. And I don't think we should have been too surprised, or at least we weren't surprised. When you factor in, Oklahoma State brought in over 90 new players this year. That's not easy to just go in with 90 new players and play a collective game and win in college football. And we saw that in the opener against Tulsa. And then front and center, you have this quarterback who is making$7 million over the next two years.

7:01I think it's$3.5 million this year,$4 million next year was the NIL deal that he signed with Oklahoma State. And so you consider the inexperience that he has, and okay, it's going to take time for this team to gel. So with a top 10 team like Oregon coming to town, this is going to get ugly, right? But then Oklahoma State goes out, and they outplay the Ducks, and not just like late or some fluky plays. They outplayed them for four quarters, and Mess the Maker outplays Dante Moore, who the Heisman favorite for a lot of people. A lot of people think he's the top quarterback in this draft. And so, yeah, I think it's if Drew Messenmaker plays this way the rest of the way, because we were right after last week, we were ready to say this is a 2028 prospect.

7:50Like, let's we can maybe stop talking about him. If he plays this way the rest of the rest of the way, he has a very hard decision to make because I think the smart decision is still to go back and get more experience. But the player we saw is a bona fide top 10 pick with what he did against Oregon. So I'm with you. I'm pretty excited about what we saw from Mr. Maker. You can see the promise with this player. The arm talent is outstanding. Easy velocity, rotational thrower. He has the juice to fit the ball into those tight windows, but he can also layer it. So he's got touch and loft to his throws down the field.

8:27The poise I'm blown away by. He just he's very unbothered by and credit to the Oklahoma State offensive line. I think they played a heck of a game. They owned the trenches. And so that one touchdown that he had where he was falling back on his back foot, that 55 yard bomb to Wyatt Young, or just let him run underneath it. I mean, it's just it's silly stuff. And then we have to talk about his athleticism and how much that was a factor in this game. That 75-yard run on the first offensive player of the game, I mean, he's just outrunning everybody until Devin Jackson, the Oregon linebacker who's a freak and going to run a 4-3 at the combine at 230 pounds until he chased him down.

9:11But there was that. There was the 10-yard touchdown run where he put on his cake, took off from the foul line, got smacked pretty good in the process, but scored the touchdown. And then the zone read first down run that he had in the fourth quarter that iced the game. So just a very loose, explosive mover. And so that, and then I also have to mention just the mental toughness. I mean, to come back from a disappointing week one, just drown out all the noise. You know, you're making a lot of money. You were brought in to be the savior of this program. To play so calm and under control against a team like Oregon, just really impressive stuff.

9:48Okay, the mental toughness to come back from the Tulsa game. How about the mental toughness in the early going of this game because he goes 75 yards on the first play, which that was our first text on Saturday. I was like, wait, I knew this kid was an athlete. I didn't know he could go 75 yards on an option keeper. This is amazing. But so they go up and they don't get a touchdown there. They have to settle for a field goal despite him getting tackled at the three. Then they drive right back down into the Oregon red zone where he gets a tip ball return for an interception. So after this like flaming hot start, you're down 7-3.

10:24And it's like, well, this is how upsets fizzle. And then he essentially throws another pick six because that one gets returned to the goal line. So you're just gifting. And he had a tackle on that one, too. Yeah. The Mateo interception. Yeah. But both interceptions were tipped. Yeah. Gifting opportunities to the heavily favored opponent. and to bounce back from that and from there outplay them down the stretch. Yeah, the resilience from week one to week two, but also just staying even keeled after a really hot start kind of disappeared on you. I thought that was incredibly impressive. I knew he was an athlete.

11:05Like I said, I did not know he had that in him against a team, the caliber of athletes that Oregon is trotting out there. And I'll just go back to what you said. some of those throws man I know everybody sat up in their seat on the like the flea flicker bender that he also threw to Wyatt Young where he's just layering it from the hash to the sideline over two guys in pursuit and 24 hours later Caleb Williams made a similar throw and like Caleb's Caleb's was a higher degree of difficulty I will say that but eerily similar throws where I was like, oh shit, this kid's got arm talent. And like you said, the 50 yard bomb on the touchdown, it's kind of like a high arcing ball that took forever to get there.

11:54But then you go back and look at it and he's getting pushed off his spot, falling away and puts 50 plus yards on it in the air. Just an incredibly silly throw that I didn't give proper credit to like live in the moment. This dude's got juice, Dan. I tweeted the end zone view from the coach's tape. And just the loft he has on that ball and where he has to put it compared to where the receiver is when he lets go, it's just a crazy play. And I'm just – it is mind-boggling how good he is for a player that didn't play high school football. And I've been trying to come up with some type of parallel of a past example of anything close to that.

12:43Like, it's just, it's very hard to do so. It's that rare of an example of a player not playing high school football, or he played high school football, just not as a quarterback. And to come in and have this type of career and trajectory, I probably shouldn't do this, all right? I mean, tell me to stop. I'm usually the one that says that. Let's go. And I'm not comparing the two and saying the two, I'm not going to predict similar success for these two guys. I'm not. But he's just such a unique story that I'm trying to come up with that parallel. And one of the closest similarities I can come up with is Josh Allen.

13:21Allen, he played quarterback in high school, but it was low level, not great competition. He didn't go play seven on seven. He didn't go to quarterback camps. He wasn't with a quarterback trainer all his life. That's just not how he grew up. He was working on the farm and playing other sports growing up. So because of that, he didn't have any offers out of high school, just like Mestermaker. Now, Allen went to JUCO before he went to Wyoming, but I think that if there was NIL and the portal, if that was a thing in 2016, Josh Allen, after the year he had at Wyoming, probably goes up a level and, you know, SEC, Big 10, Big 12, whatever it would have been, and has his, I guess it would have been his redshirt junior year, wherever, and moved up like Mestamaker did.

14:14So, again, I'm not predicting a Josh Allen-like career for Mestamaker because that's just unfair, but a big, raw, athletic athlete who wasn't considered anything coming out of high school, not because of talent, but because they just were kind of hidden in plain sight. It's that's that's the closest parallel I can I can come up with. But his story is just so unique that it's just it's it's really hard to come up with something that's similar. But that's the closest thing I can come up with. I have a feeling Drew would appreciate that. That link because he wears 17 as an homage to Josh Allen. And that's why he wears that number.

14:57I am curious. So he's listed at six, three, roughly two, two 15, I think. And I'm always dubious of college measurements until the real stuff comes out during the draft process. He's not quite the singular physical specimen that Josh is, but he's all, he's not a slight guy either though. And clearly we've already been talking about the degree of athleticism that he has. So, I mean, you'll look for a long time before you see a one to one like physical comp to Josh Allen. But he's got pretty impressive size and athleticism. Like if you're going to say the name Josh Allen, I at least don't think it's like a crazy physical comparison, even if he's not quite Josh.

15:41Well, and it's more so the path, right? It's the not having any offers out of high school. and it's like in this day and age, it feels like that's impossible, you know, to have a guy that wasn't a five star or at least a three or four star in high school and go on and play big major college football. And so that, and that's why it just, that's the closest recent comparison that you can kind of make to a guy that Josh Allen wasn't, even when he was coming out of Wyoming, you know, he had plenty of doubters who didn't think he was a first round pick and all this. and obviously the way he has grown.

16:18And I think a big part of Josh Allen's trajectory has been the fact that he didn't grow up with a quarterback trainer. And so he was just a late bloomer with the way everything clicked for him. Mess the Maker could be the same thing where he didn't grow up, you know, necessarily getting all of those reps at quarterback. So it's all coming late to him, but you can see the natural talent. You can see the way the ball comes out of his hand. He has a natural feel for accuracy. Some of the throws over the middle of the field, I'm just blown away by the placement, the timing, and then his ability to climb the pocket, move around.

16:49He just doesn't look like an inexperienced quarterback when in reality that's what he is. 7 of 12 for 198 yards and two touchdowns on throws of more than 10 air yards. He did have a couple deep misses down the middle of the field, but a lot of those completions were over the middle of the field as well, especially like in the 10 to 20-yard range of the field, like just absolutely fearless against a really good roster. The other thing I wanted to say is typically you might get pushback on that and be like, are we really talking about Josh Allen right now? And I get that because Josh Allen is one of the best quarterbacks in the world.

17:26Josh Allen was not that good of a college football player. Like we did that draft together, Dane, like a lot of people missed on Josh Allen because he completed 56 % in college and had like a two to one touchdown interception ratio. So Josh Allen as a college prospect is not some like lofty unattainable ground to get to, especially like, again, for guys that are so inexperienced coming through high school and the way you're getting to this point. So it's fun. I'm I'm not going to make the same mistake twice and overreact too much the good way after overreacting the bad way. But really, really cool for Drew Mestemaker to just step up and say, hang on.

18:11I'm still like, let's I need to be talked about. I am here and I'm going to be here. And so now Oklahoma state eases into the big 12 schedule, still like several very enticing games left on their schedule. They play at Houston this year. They play Texas tech. They play at Arizona state. They got a road trip to West Virginia in a couple of weeks. So wherever this goes, I'm just, I'm really excited that we're keeping the book open on drew Mestemaker. Cause that was fun as hell. It's funny. If you were a scout that went to that game, to watch the quarterbacks, you came away so much more impressed with Messamaker than the guy we're about to talk about.

18:56Let's talk about it. I was going to say, now let's flip to the other side of this. Just kind of a baffling day from the Oregon Ducks in general. I mean, even if we underestimated Oklahoma State, they were heavy favorites in this game. Very popular picks to win the national title. Not only did they lose, I mean, I saw your tweet, Dane, at halftime of this game, Dante Moore had completed 5 of 15 for 45 yards. And there were some drops there. Like, I'm not going to pin it all on Dante Moore, but even still, just a grossly disappointing day from the guy that we all think would have been a top three pick in the draft had he come out last year.

19:39Well, and according to my social media mentions, Moore is awful. and strictly a media creation when it comes to his NFL future, which obviously we know that's not true with how NFL teams talk about him and the grades. NFL teams have higher grades on Dante more than I do. Like that's coming into the year. Now we'll see if that changes throughout this year. But a lot of people thought he'd be the favorite to go number one overall. And Saturday was not his best day. I'll say this. He wasn't the reason Oregon lost, but his unsteady play was a contributing factor. And again, I want to give credit to Oklahoma State because they owned the trenches.

20:17Moore did not respond well when he was pressured. And we saw that particularly on the money downs where the timing and decision making, they just weren't there for Dante Moore. And so it wasn't all bad by any means. There were several impressive throws. That one double move that the freshman DeCorean Moore had, Dante Moore just dropped it in the bucket, that 36-yard touchdown. It was a thing of beauty. And there were other throws. But I think really more than anything else, the takeaway from this game, if you watch that offense, is how out of sorts everybody looked. The offensive line has big-time issues.

20:52There's a lot of new starters up there, and it shows. And they were mixing and matching, and one of the guards got injured. And so it was just they looked out of sorts. There were three key drops that really affected drives. The tight end, Jamar Johnson, didn't play because of an injury. That left a big hole in what the offense wanted to do. And then I think, to me, the biggest issue was there's no more Will Stein calling the plays. That's something that has to get fixed and fast if Oregon wants to salvage this season. And that's not even talking about the defense. but there while Dante Moore was not at his best there's a lot more going on than just a quarterback in terms of what's wrong with that offense I'm glad you brought up the Will Stein aspect of it because when this game ended I flipped over to Kentucky Alabama and Alabama wound up putting that game away pretty comfortably turnovers played a big part in that but in the early going Kentucky was zipping up and down the field on Alabama's defense and I was like all right Will Stein is in the SEC now.

21:57Maybe that's why Oregon's offense looked as disjointed as it did. And the offensive line turnover is a big part of it as well. Emmanuel Pregnon having a pretty nice NFL debut for Jacksonville, by the way. So I think there's a lot of factors that go into it. My caveman brain can't let go of the idea that a guy that is a top three prospect, according to people that know more than me, it like elevate me, bail me out of a shitty day like make everybody else look good and maybe that's not fair but I can't let go of that notion that that's what I want to see from somebody like Dante Moore no I you're absolutely fair to think that way um I mean we'll get to Arch Manning in a second but the way he played in the fourth quarter of that game against Ohio State like that's that's what you want from your quarterback um and with Dante Moore he just he struggled to do that and so look It's one game.

22:51I can't wait to see how Oregon and Moore, how they respond the rest of the way. They've got USC in two weeks, Ohio State and Michigan in November. So we're going to learn a lot more about Moore and everybody else in that offense pretty soon. I'm not panicking yet, and it's Portland State this coming weekend. Get right game. Yeah, we can just let Oregon sit in the shadows for a week. But as you said, two weeks from now, it's not only USC, but USC at the Coliseum, which I doubt they will have attendance issues for that one. And I'm I'm watching that closely because if that doesn't go well, Dane, and I like I don't even care if Oregon wins.

23:33But like if Dante Moore doesn't play well in that game, I start to get kind of nervous. And again, I think that's fair. You want to see a quarterback elevate everything around him regardless of what's going on. And this is something that, I mean, going back five, ten years, just all the different quarterbacks we've had over the years, whether it was Jordan Love at Utah State or a quarterback that was playing in really good conditions, you have to separate reasons from excuses when you evaluate quarterbacks. And when there's a bad play or something doesn't work out and you give a reason, OK, is that a reason or are you making an excuse for this quarterback?

24:16And so I think that's something with all quarterbacks, whether it's Mess to make or or Arch or Julian saying or whoever, we have to separate the reasons from the excuse excuses. And that's not always easy to do. So with Dante Moore, hopefully the evaluation gets easier as the season goes on and not tougher like it seems to be through two weeks. We will have ample opportunity to check in on Dante and the Ducks as the season goes along. For now, we're going to transition to the other huge game from the weekend, which absolutely delivered on the hype. Let's talk Buckeyes and Longhorns on the other side of this break.

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27:55Well, Dane, at like 1030 central time, I thought we were dealing with a dud, to be honest with you. It was actually probably like 930. I don't know what time it was, but the point being, heading into the fourth quarter, Texas had laid a massive egg, and I thought we were going to be talking about why Arch Manning was not delivering in another big out-of-conference game at the beginning of a season. And then the fourth quarter happened, and I was pretty excited to get in here and talk about Arch's performance with you. I'm not going to lie, because I was pretty damn impressed. Is that, like, am I wrong to feel that way?

28:32I know it was up and down at the beginning. I know Texas had their share of growing pains, but that fourth quarter brought me all the way back in. I thought it was incredibly impressive. Like I said at the start, it's funny to hear all the different interpretations of all these quarterback performances. And so with this Arch Manning performance, you know, a lot of the doubters, they're going to focus on that he didn't have, he didn't pass 100 yards passing until the fourth quarter. And just how up and down it looked the first three quarters. while I think others who maybe are more intrigued by him as a quarterback and his talent and his resiliency, they're focusing more on the way that he found a way in the fourth quarter.

29:17And I think that I'm more in the latter group with you. And I think if Ryan Wingo doesn't drop that touchdown earlier in the game or Cam Coleman doesn't have that deep shot turn into an interception when it should have been a completion, the narrative is so much different. Texas had five drops in this game. And honestly, it felt even more than that. So you had the fumble right off the bat, and then you have the interception the next drive, and then you have the Reinwing go drop. It's just there was so much that went into the lackluster stat line over the first three quarters. And I do think that there were times where I felt like he got a little trigger shy, and I think it's because of, okay, we already had a fumble.

30:02We already had that interception. It's like, okay, I can't contribute. And neither of those were his fault. But in the back of his mind, it looked like he was thinking, okay, I can't contribute another turnover here. So if the window wasn't perfectly there the way he wanted, maybe he turned it down. Or maybe the read timing wasn't quite on point where he wants to go here. So he's staying on that first read a little longer. So he's not getting to the backside. So there were moments of that. I'm not going to say the arch played perfect, but he played his best late. And I think that it's the gotta have it plays.

30:43That's what is so impressive about this performance. Two minutes left in the third quarter, fourth and eight from their own 42. It feels like if they don't get this, the game's over. It already kind of feels like the game's over. It's 23 to three, but if they don't get this, it's over. Manning gets flushed to his right almost immediately by inside pressure. and somehow as he's getting brought down to the ground, finds the tight end, he's getting pulled down, but gets a completion, gets the first down. Later that drive, it's third and goal from the three-yard line. He hits Wingo from that touchdown from the opposite hash.

31:17There's a little rub route, but look where the, when he goes to throw the ball and look where Wingo is, not even looking, you know, not even close to where he was. He has to put the ball perfectly in a spot in tight coverage. He did that. And then later in the fourth quarter, that fourth and six, where again, it feels like it's over if he doesn't get it. OSU brings the blitz. Manning fires a strike right over the middle before the safety gets there. And so there were so many moments where it felt like if there's just something a little bit different and Manning doesn't execute, Ohio State wins that game.

31:51So it's the God to have it moments that were so impressive to me. So I'm not going to sit here and say Manning solidified himself as the number one overall pick or anything like that. Nothing. This wasn't the type of performance that is an exclamation point on what you believe Arch Manning is. But I think you have to look at the resiliency, the way he engineered a comeback against the number one team in the country. There's a lot to like from this tape if you're grading these quarterbacks and looking at Arch as potentially the top guy. lest I sound like I think Arch can do no wrong. I completely agree with that.

32:29And I would say you could feel the hesitancy and the fear that you were going to let mistakes submarine this game. On top of that, I thought Arch, you could say he was too amped up. You could just say he was like not calibrated enough. Like he reminded me of like just like sighting in a gun where like, you know, it's just going a tick too high. and you're like, you got to bring that down, buddy. Or like, you know, like Spider-Man figuring out how to shoot his webs where throughout the early going of this game, you know, I mean, Cam Coleman obviously has to catch that ball, right? Like that's a fluky drop that leads to an interception.

33:09Also could have been a walk-in touchdown. And like Arch was not pressured on that throw at all. I thought he left that a little high. The Wingo ball, again, is a drop. I thought you could have made it an easier ball for Wingo to catch as well. And he had another one. He missed a 20-yard dot to Mosley on a third and seven early in the third quarter where it was there. And it would have been a gorgeous throw, but he just led him by like half a foot too far. And so I thought there were a few throws where, like I said, if you want to call it amped up or if he was just not correctly calibrated, it could have looked a lot better in addition to the fact that he had five drops.

33:50no no doubt and i agree with all that except for probably the wingo one i i thought that was just that that's a catch that wingo needs to make and that that's why 100 agreed like at the end of the day that is on the receiver every single time 100 where the coleman if he catches that it's a amazing catch where that now it's not an easy throw easy i mean or either it's 50 yards down the field uh so i'm not gonna kill the quarterback for that one but if coleman makes that it's more of a great catch than an amazing throw. So, but yeah, the Wingo one, he has to catch that. Now, Wingo did have a few other moments where he redeemed himself, but still, that's the thing you struggle with with Wingo is the speed's awesome, especially for that size, but the hands you can't trust, the routes are inconsistent.

34:39He's just, he's a frustrating player, but an awesome talent. And so, yeah, Ryan Wingo, part of the evaluation is another conversation. but yeah I mean I think I mean I agree with that and that's why I'm saying I would not point to this uh performance and say yeah this is exactly why this should be the number one overall pick but I think there were more positive things to take away from this game than negative overwhelmingly so in my opinion because again even if Arch was a little bit off his receivers screwed him in the early going I mean how much different does the stat line look if Coleman and Wingo make those catches and then yeah okay okay you're gonna have some misses in week two against a national title contender caliber opponent.

35:22And then on top of that, he just blacked out in the fourth quarter and was amazing and made throw after throw. I mean, yeah, the fourth and six was incredible. The arm talent on the third and one. He wasn't like completely flat footed on that touchdown throw, but he's not like stepping into that. He's just at a standstill throwing from the far hash to the far end of the end zone from the other side of the field. Just an absolutely gorgeous throw. You mentioned Ohio State blitzed him. He was 10 of 12 for 80 yards and a touchdown when he was blitzed by Matt Patricia. All of that stuff considered.

36:01Throw in the mobility as well. He picked up a first down with his feet. He was able to move to avoid pressure. You can see what an athlete he is. I mean, we knew that going in, but to use his legs as usefully as he did against an opponent of this caliber. It wasn't perfect. We don't have to come to a concrete conclusion right now, but I came out of it being like, yes, this is why people were excited about Arch Manning. And it looks justified two weeks into the season. And I think people, when we talk about a potential number one overall pick, people want to see only dominance, right? And I think that you have to really focus on the things that a quarterback does well, the foundational traits, and are they doing what they can to lead their team to wins?

36:49And Manning does that more times than not. And so we'll see how the rest of the season goes. The schedule does not let up all that much for Texas as they go through the SEC. So there will be plenty more opportunities to judge Manning under the bright lights. And, you know, there will be plenty more times where we'll be talking about him over the next few months. Now, the other quarterback on the other side, Julian Sand, this felt like a tale of two halves for him, right? He found that groove early where he was letting it rip on time, mostly to Jeremiah Smith. That skinny post touchdown that he had right before halftime was just perfect.

37:21And I was always taught, you know, the skinny post, that's one of the most important routes to find on a quarterback's tape. It shows decisiveness, ball placement, arm strength, to really attack that type of window when you have the corner and safety converging. And Sane did it against one of the best secondaries in the country. So I really like how Arthur Smith, offensive coordinator for Ohio State coming from the NFL, he's really opening things up. And so through two games, he's averaging 12.3, average depth of target, which is significantly higher than what Sane had last year. And I think I basically take that as, hey, we know we have Jeremiah Smith.

38:00We're not going to let that go to waste. but it's just good to see them airing it out and really pushing the ball downfield. Touchdown pass to Jeremiah was really disgusting. And like the ball placement was so perfect. The decisiveness was great. Can I, can I say something that might be construed as mean? Of course not. Or of course, go ahead. Of course. All right. No, we won't have a show then. No. So Jill, Julian saying is a good quarterback and I'm not, I am not writing him off. Right. but I like I watched arch and say, you sound like me on Columbus radio right now, but keep going. Keep going.

38:37I watched. I like him, but yeah, I do. I do like him and he's going to put up big numbers in this offense, watching arch and say, and back to back divorce. And like, I watched the game live on Saturday night and that's different. But like, when you just watch their clips back to back, it gives you whiplash when you like watching arch's physical tools and what he is capable of doing like the zip on his throws the throws that he can access his athleticism watching him scramble to get away from pressure and make off-platform throws versus saying it's just it's not even close in terms of like physical ability that doesn't mean Julian Sands a bad player let's just call it what it is though like Arch's raw talent is what makes him so intriguing as a prospect.

39:27Julian saying, I just, I felt like it's, it's a lot of like the, the, the ability to evade pressures, not as good. Like this is not a guy who's going to outrun a lot of high level defenders. He, he left probably at least one other touchdown on the field on some of those deep balls to Jeremiah Smith. Like the stutter go could have been a touchdown with a further throw. I just don't think he has that type of arm talent. There was another one where he missed a seam ball on the opposite hash that theoretically could have been a touchdown. I'm not sure he could have gotten it there, though, or at least not with enough pace on it to get the receiver into the end zone.

40:05It's not to say he's a bad player, but I do think athletically and traits-wise, there's a cap. No, I think you're right. I mean, this is why size and speed matter when we talk about prospects and traits. It's not everything, but it matters. And that shows when these two quarterbacks are pressured. And we saw that in the second half when Sayan against pressure, that was kind of a hang-up for him. There were, I think he was 4 of 12 when he was pressured in this game. It is tougher for him to escape that pressure, whether it's with physicality and shaking off a tackler or with the quickness with his feet to escape and extend the play.

40:49But I'm glad you, just talking about Jeremiah Smith, because this is something I wanted to talk about. One of the biggest hurdles for Sayan when it comes to his NFL evaluation is going to be the Jeremiah Smith factor. He's the best player in college football, and he again showed why on Saturday. How do you properly divorce the quarterback from the receiver? How do you scout Sayan independently from the alien that's catching the football? That's not easy to do. And that is something that you shouldn't fault the quarterback for that. But at the same time, how much praise do you give the quarterback for that?

41:27And this is not a new thing. This is something we talked about with Tua in Alabama and all the receiver talent they had there. Or CJ Stroud with his receivers at Ohio State. So this isn't new territory. But when you have a receiver that's at this elite level, you have to figure out how much of the work is he doing for the quarterback. and I think when it comes to this specific example was saying, I think you're going to get differing opinions based on who you talk to. I mean, you name it, Jeremiah Smith did it in this game. Like everything you could want to see from beating coverage deep, run after the catch, contested catch.

42:05He completely delivered. He completely delivered on the hype, Dane, and yet it's perfectly fair to say Ohio State left a little meat on the bone in terms of what Jeremiah Smith could have done in this game, which is an incredible place to be. Yeah, he's just different. I mean, we've spent a lot of time in previous pods, even going back to last year, just hyping him up. And I still feel like we don't do him justice, just because it's hard to find the words to properly describe how good this player is. And Ohio State is smart to lean into it, But, you know, maybe you have to get more help from McEwen or Brandon Innes or the tight ends just to take some of the heat off the receiver that, you know, I don't know.

42:54We'll see how that evolves over the year, how Ohio State looks to lean on Jeremiah Smith, but not to the point where it's your only it's it's your offense right there. um now that you know you're gonna win you probably have a good chance of winning the big 10 if that's your offense but are you gonna win a national title i don't know maybe so yeah it'll be interesting the rest of the way how many opponents on ohio state's schedule are capable of making them lean on somebody else like if oh if jeremiah smith is the offense how many opponents is that going to matter against like they play maybe Michigan I mean they play the way Michigan has done like the last two years, like maybe Michigan do that a little bit.

43:37Um, probably not USC, um, Michigan and Indiana would be my answers. Like they go to Indiana in a month and a half or actually more like a month. And so like, that's a big one that I'm watching and, and Michigan as well. And then if they get into the playoff to your point, that'll be a conversation worth having. I'm, I'm curious to see it was, it was striking to see how few guys made an impact for them offensively behind Jeremiah, but how often is that going to be a problem for this team? Yeah, and once we get, because obviously watching Ohio State, even though the result wasn't what they wanted, like clearly this is one of the best teams in college football, but with their schedule in Oregon and Indiana and Michigan, and it's just, this could be a three loss team.

44:29And so it'll be interesting as Ohio State goes through this season. And that's why this one is such a heartbreaker for them. Not only the fact that they had this game and just couldn't put it away, but you couldn't really afford to stub your toe early. Cause now you almost, you don't have to be perfect the rest of the way, but it does put a little bit of pressure on you to get things together. And so, yeah, we'll see Ohio state's really talented. They've got the best player in the country. They've got a more than capable quarterback and a lot of good things are, you know, we can talk about Kenyatta Jackson.

44:57He was, he had a good game. You know, there's a lot of good things Ohio state has going for them, but, they better play better and more consistent for all four quarters if they want to make the college football playoffs. Anybody else? You mentioned Kenyatta Jackson. We talked about the receivers. Anybody else from this game you want to hit before we take a break? I mean, Trevor Goosby and Melvin Ciani, the two tackles for Texas, I thought they were really good. Now, OSU, they ran a lot of three-man and penny fronts, which really aren't ideal if you're trying to scout tackles and pass protection.

45:29So, you know, I think that there's only so much you can take from this game, but I thought they both had a strong night. I think we have to talk about the two running backs for Texas, right? They were a big part of that Texas comeback. Raleek Brown, aside from that fumble on the opening drive, you know, he was stronger in the fourth quarter. And I think the fact that you have a Hollywood Smothers and a Relique Brown to tag team that backfield and you're not relying on one guy is a big part of what's going to keep Texas alive in the national title hunt all year. Hollywood Smothers was, you know, he's he's not the biggest guy, but he's dynamic and he's tougher than you think.

46:10I'm glad you said that. That was my big note on the Texas running game is that I don't think of Hollywood Smothers as this crazy physical player, but I felt him in this game. Like he was incredibly physical. He finished incredibly well, obviously scored the game deciding touchdown down on the goal line. I was and like the stat lines, not anything crazy, but that's that made it all the more impressive is like on a night where the game breaking runs weren't necessarily there. I was very impressed with his physicality and the dirty work that he did. All right, that's going to do it for Texas, Ohio State.

46:48We got a few more notes from week two to hit on before we're out of here. We'll do that right after this break. Are you the kind of sports fan that wants to dig into the story behind the stats? Join the Athletic Live on YouTube to get more of all the sports stories you can't stop talking about. On game days, they'll watch the biggest matchups alongside the Athletic's most tapped in reporters. you can become part of the show in the interactive chat. The Athletic Live is presented by Google Gemini. Subscribe now on YouTube. This episode is brought to you by Onnit. You know those days where your schedule is packed to the brim?

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49:44All right, Dane, we're going to stay on theme for the episode. We're going to talk about some other quarterbacks. We're going to do some stock up, stock down, because we hit on the big names that we have talked about going into the season. I want to take this opportunity to talk about some quarterbacks that we haven't necessarily hit on. I will let you take the floor, because I know where I want to go, but I want to see what you think heading into this. So stock up or stock down, where do you want to start? um let's start with stock up and we have to have an austin simmons conversation uh yeah the missouri quarterback uh olemis transfer uh so far through two games seven intercept or seven touchdowns no interceptions the arm the the ball just explodes off his arm um you can really see that baseball background with him and you know the you can understand why there was all this hype at this time last year when he was at Ole Miss.

50:44Before, let's dial in on the context here for anybody that's not familiar. So Austin Simmons, Dane, this is Austin Simmons' fourth year in college. He's only 20 because he reclassified as a class of 2023 player, even though he was a class of 2025 high school player. So he went to college very, very early. he was Jackson darts backup. And that's, if you remember back to last year, he was a highly touted quarterback prospect playing for lane Kiffin at old miss. He dings his ankle and Trinidad chamberless takes over and the rest is history. And now he's at Missouri. I'm glad you brought up baseball.

51:26I think it's worth noting. Not only was he a baseball player, he pitched for old miss, which is, I mean, old miss is a big time program. They go to the College World Series on a regular basis. And you can see it when he throws, man. Like, his arm is live. Like, watching Austin Simmons' tape against Kansas was the last thing I did before I came to record the show. And I was, like, buzzing with some of the throws this guy was putting on tape, man. It is really fun. I love that he uses the whole field, too. Like, it's just, there's not a throw that's not accessible for him. But he looks especially sharp over the middle of the field.

52:09You know, it's back foot hits in his drop, ball is up and gone. Just defenders barely have time to react because of how decisive he's been playing. And then just the velocity that he throws the ball with. So I think once we get into the SEC schedule, we'll get a better feel for just, okay how seriously should we be taking simmons as a 2027 prospect but so far so good i mean arkansas pine bluff and kansas are uh you know kansas is a is a scrappy team they're a good team should have a winning record this year but it's still there's tougher tests on the horizon for uh this missouri team i definitely don't want to overreact to the wins that they have and they got a road trip to Mississippi state in a couple of weeks, A &M and Ole Miss are on the schedule.

52:57Good Lord, Texas and Georgia are on the schedule by the end of the year. So yeah, we'll, we'll know, but right now I just, just go find some Austin Simmons highlights. And even if we don't know what it means yet, the word that I want to say, Dane is audacity. He just doesn't give a shit, dude. He is going to rip it. It doesn't matter if the nickel is like right on top of the target. He's going to put it on the guy's face mask. He had a 20-yard skinny post in this Kansas game from, like, the minus 30 to the logo. The nickel was, like, running the route for the receiver, and he just nailed it on the guy's face mask.

53:37And he did that four or five times in this game in addition to, like, six throws where he's just casually throwing from the far hash to the sticks all the way across the field and just getting it there instantaneously. instantaneously like the like I didn't need coffee watching this guy it like it woke me up just watching some of these throws yeah it's it's pretty exciting and like you said with that schedule we'll learn more pretty quickly here but so far a lot to get excited about um the next quarterback I want to talk about when you see a final score like 38 to 13 you're probably thinking all right the the losing team probably had a dud performance from the quarterback but I thought Drake Lindsay did some nice things against Mississippi State, the Minnesota quarterback.

54:22So this isn't a stock up or down. It's more of a hold type of situation. They lost this game, but the defense played atrocious. They couldn't get the run game going. But Lindsey, man, he just keeps firing the ball. And, you know, the box score doesn't look kind for him. It doesn't look terrible, but it doesn't look great for him. But the tape looks a lot better. There were some awesome throws. There was one back shoulder laser down the field along the sideline. Kelly Jones, who was a top 50 guy on my board, the corner from Mississippi State, had good coverage, but a perfect throw is going to beat that every time.

55:00This is a guy that's big, strong arm passer who can just really fire strikes all over the field when he's in rhythm. So I think there are some red flags with him. He's very average when it comes to twitch as a passer. And when you make him move his feet, that's where his accuracy can be affected. So he's not going to be a guy that's escaping very often when pressured. But there's no doubt about it. This guy has an NFL arm. And I love talking about audacity. I think he has some of that, too, where he's going to stand strong in the pocket. He's going to find his man. And he's going to fire a strike to hopefully his receiver can go make him right.

55:39So there's a lot to like about Lindsey. I was going to say about the receivers. Lindsey got sold out by his receivers a couple times in this Mississippi State game as well. A couple brutal drops for him. It's just fun seeing a throwback quarterback at this point, like a 6 '5", 230 guy who's not a special athlete. When's the last time we saw one of these guys? Like a legit NFL prospect. Like that was, you know, the Ryan Mallets, the Brock Osweiler. Yeah, but even Lynch could move a little bit too. Yeah, that's fair. He had better mobility than Lindsey. But yeah, it's been a minute since we had one of these guys that, okay, this looks like a top 100 pick.

56:23I don't know. I'm not sold on him being a first-round pick. I think the biggest reason is the lack of mobility. If he's pressured, like I said, it could go wonky pretty quickly. But there's a lot to like about his arm and the way he operates. one thing I wanted to ask and please correct me if I'm wrong he's absolutely got a huge arm and it's really fun to watch but I do feel like it's like you said like the lack of twitch it's not that it doesn't seem to be that insane sort of arm like the best quarterbacks in the NFL where you can just access insane arm talent from any angle or any throwing platform like like you mentioned rhythm he needs to be in the rhythm in the play and have the ability to like fully step into the throw i didn't i didn't see any crazy arm talent where he can just like flick it from any position and have it go wherever he wants or do you think i'm off base with that well i i think where you really see that average twitch is when you force him to reset and shift his body and and kind of just get right back in rhythm.

57:33Like you can get, when he's not in rhythm, you don't always see that, or he doesn't feel comfortable ripping those strikes. So if you get him to move his feet and he has to shift his body, get in position, that's where you see that average twitch and something that maybe you get away with it for, in most cases in college football, but that won't be the case in the NFL. And so it's something that he has to continue to work on. and he'll be it'll be interesting if he's a 2027 guy or a 2028 prospect but yeah I think you know good on Minnesota for recruiting him keeping him and you know we'll see how the rest of the season plays out worth mentioning Austin Simmons and Drake Lindsey both have eligibility beyond this year so yeah it will we'll be waiting to see are they more 2027 guys or 2028 guys what we know for sure it's worth mentioning.

58:26One of the most exciting quarterbacks in college football right now is not eligible. So if you watched this Mississippi state, Minnesota game, Camario Taylor, Mississippi state. If you're listening to this podcast, I bet you care enough about the draft to have seen some of this guy's arm talent on social media. It's incredible. He's just not draft eligible right now. So I don't know how much we need to talk about it, But I am circling the name Kamario Taylor in red ink after watching two weeks of his play at Mississippi State. It's worth bringing up. Yeah, it's worth putting out there that, hey, this guy is absolutely on the radar.

59:08He was someone that started blowing up for me over the summer, just hearing how he looked at the Manning Passing Academy. A lot of people that were there kept telling me how awesome he looked. And then it's good to see that translate to the season where so far through two games, he has been electric and just firing the ball all over the place. Again, like I said, with Lindsey and good on Minnesota for recruiting him, keeping him. Good on Mississippi State for the same thing, recruiting him and keeping him because there's a lot of teams that recognize that talent and would love to have a quarterback of that caliber.

59:46Definitely a name to watch. And as far as eligible quarterbacks, if we're going to do a stock down, it's hard not to come out of that Oklahoma-Michigan game feeling great about our guy, John Mateer, which ironically, it was the Oklahoma-Michigan game in 2025 that, I mean, it certainly wasn't perfect, but John Mateer showed some real flashes in that game, gave you some stuff to be excited about as a guy who can get stuff done with his feet, fun arm. and really since that night against Michigan last year, it's been mostly bad. I was hopeful that some of that was injury-related last year, but it's hard to feel that way having watched that entire game against Michigan on Saturday.

1:00:32Just a disaster performance. Barely completed 50 % of his passes. Just never looked like he was comfortable. And I think the offensive line contributed to that, but he just has not been a consistently accurate passer. and he makes too many wild decisions throughout the course of a game. Sometimes he gets away with it, and sometimes it leads to a big play. Oftentimes it's a back-breaking play. So then that just happened too much against a defense the caliber of Michigan. So, yeah, just a tough one for that Oklahoma offense, and it's – how's it getting better? That's how – because, again, another team in the SEC with a lot of good opponents coming up on the schedule, how is that offense going to get better?

1:01:15And are you just going to rely on the quarterback? Hopefully he plays better. Or what can you do to support him, whether it's the run game? They tried so hard to get the ball to Satania in that game, and just they weren't able to do it. And so they need to find another answer in the passing game. They need to do more in terms of protections. So it's not just a Matier problem, but it's hard to take Mateer seriously as a top four round prospect when you watch that tape. It's not our job to figure out how Oklahoma fixes it on this show, but knowing what the offense looked like last year and you lose a guy like Deion Birch to the draft and then you sign Brent Venables to a major contract extension, it was really disillusioning to see the offense struggled that much right out of the gate against like, I mean, don't get me wrong.

1:02:10It's a good Michigan roster, but it's not 2023 Michigan. Like, I mean, 10 points is, that's a tough pill to swallow. There's no way. I mean, there's no doubt about it. It's just, and that's what I was saying. It's, I want to find out, okay, now it's up to the coaching staff. How do you get more out of this offense? How do you fix things? Because if you play like you did against Michigan the rest of the year, I mean, you're a 500 at best ball club. It's a really quarterback heavy show, Dane, for good reason. But before we get out of here, I had a couple more notes I wanted to throw your way. Namely, I had a ball watching Texas A &M Arizona State on Saturday morning, and I knew going into that game that Amarian Miller was a receiver to know at Arizona State.

1:02:57Lo and behold, his teammate Reed Harris absolutely stole the show. A &M pulled away and won this game easily, but not before I texted you and said, who the hell is Reed Harris? A 6 '5", 220-pound receiver who runs like that and has contested catchability like that. He is firmly on my receiver radar after the second week of college football. I think I responded to you. So you like 6 '4", 220 with 4 '4 speed? that does something for you? Okay. I had a blast. Yeah, a BC transfer, Boston College. And I watched him last year scouting Lewis Bond, the receiver who was in last year's draft. And Harris, his size and speed just consistently stood out.

1:03:45He's interesting. He's a Montana native. And he's someone that went into the portal, goes to Arizona State. I was pretty high on him in my summer ranking. He was my number 12 underclassman wide receiver. And through two weeks this year, he's making a case for, hey, you had me too low. I should be higher because Morgan State, okay, that's one thing. But then do it again, have over 100 yards. He almost had almost 200 yards against A &M. I think it was nine for 189, two touchdowns. Yeah, I think he's underrated no longer because he can play. It's the traits. It's the size, 6 '4", 220, 4 '4", speed.

1:04:25But then you factor in, he rarely drops the ball. He's got these big accepting hands. The body control is awesome. So, yeah, Jordan Tyson was awesome for Arizona State the last few years. He becomes a top 10 pick. You bring in a player at caliber of Reed who not quite that. I'm not going to say he's a top 10 pick. But why can't he be drafted where Denzel Boston was drafted, right? Or Jaden Higgins. And Jaden Higgins was like pick 35. You know, why can't he be that level of draft pick? Because I think the talent is actually pretty comparable to Higgins. You read my mind. He's certainly not as twitchy as Jordan Tyson, but Denzel Boston was the name that came to my brain just because he's the most recent receiver with that build to come out, at least, you know, highly drafted.

1:05:17And he looked the part against an SEC defense, which, by the way, TJ Searcy and Antosaka, the edge rushers for A &M, also really made an impression in that game. So lost a lot of guys to the draft, but it seems like A &M is going to be fine from a talent standpoint. Yeah, they always are. They reload and, I don't know, it does make the SEC schedule fun because that's what they do, right? And so even an average Saturday, you know, A &M versus LSU or whoever it is, it's just it's always going to be a battle. We're going to we're getting closer. Conference play is getting underway. That'll do it for this week.

1:05:59But goodness, I'm looking at the schedule now. Florida State Ole Miss. LSU Ole Miss. Obviously, you know, I'll be watching that. Florida State, Alabama, SMU Louisville this week. Another good weekend of college football. Notre Dame, Michigan State on Saturday night. Plenty of stuff to watch. And next week, Dane and I will be back recapping all of it. Until then, we appreciate it. We'll talk to you all next time. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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