Building the Beast: Tight end draft class breakdown

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2:08Welcome to a new episode of Building the Beast. I am your host, Dave Hellman, and this is really what I dreamed about when I knew I was going to be doing a podcast with Dane Brugler. The show's called Building the Beast. Of course, we're going to talk about the major prospects and the movement at the top of the NFL draft. But we want to do a podcast for people who want to know about hand sizes for day three tight ends. Like that is who we want to talk to and what we want to talk about. And that's exactly what we did today. As we inch closer to the 2026 NFL draft, as we get closer to the actual release of The Beast, if you're listening to this right now, we are two weeks out from the release of Dane's annual draft guide on April 8th.

2:53Keep an eye out for it. And with that approaching, we want to dive into the actual positions and what better place to start than one of the most loaded tight end classes I can remember in my time covering the NFL draft. Dane and I had a blast going through as many prospects as we possibly could. We talked about the top guys, you know, the first round picks, the top 50 picks, but we spent a solid chunk of this show working through just a log jam of day three tight ends. A really, really fun conversation for our draft Knicks. Let's get right to it.

3:32Well, Dane, I got to tell you, I'm really excited for today's episode, man, because we call this building the beast. And if you've ever looked at the beast, the digital copy, which is wonderful. Now I have like 10 of the old paper bound copies still in my files somewhere. They weigh like 30 pounds every time I have to move. It's terrible. But the whole point of the beast is that every prospect is in there. And when, when I knew we were going to do this show, So I wanted to make sure that we got real sicko with it and real granular with it. And we don't want to spend every episode just debating the top 50 prospects over and over again.

4:11That's fun to do, but we're a month out from the draft. We are, I believe, two weeks away from the release of The Beast. We have a date on that, right? Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's two weeks. That's just scary. Did I just send you into a spiral? A little bit. I mean, there's just a lot to do until then. So many teams wait for this final week of March for Pro Days, and it just really throws a wrench in things. Like every day this week, there's multiple high-level programs going. And then Indiana is not until next week. They're the last ones. And then we've got some personal Pro Days in April.

4:49But, yeah, these final two weeks are always the craziest, trying to get everything edited, trying to get into these last bits of information. But the nice thing with it on the site now is, you know, we can update it if there's, you know, a late pro day or something like that. So that does help a little bit. But yeah, we're getting close to that finish line. I know it doesn't make your life any easier, but it does mimic the actual rhythm of these NFL front offices. I mean, I was just talking to somebody yesterday, like all the staffs, all the front offices are still in the process of zigzagging the country.

5:28I mean, you saw how well represented the NFL was at Miami's Pro Day on Monday afternoon. LSU on if I think it was Monday morning as well. Like, I mean, teams are still very much out gathering data. And I don't think most teams get into the room and really finalize their board until the next. I would say that starts in the next like 10 days or so. Yeah. I'm talking to a guy yesterday, Scout, it was at Miami. He was at FIU in the morning, then goes to Miami for the afternoon. And then today he's somewhere else. I can't remember. But I mean, it's another it's I think Auburn, maybe. And then Alabama the next day.

6:10Like it's just one day after another, you're, you're kind of, uh, at a different spot and it's a marathon. So, um, yeah, pro days will finish up next week and then teams will get together at the facility for final draft meetings, put the final touches on the board. Um, we've got the medical rechecks coming up, um, the 30 visits, which I think the 30 visits are kind of at a point where they're getting overblown. You know, I think people, first of all, can we, can we stop with the top 30 visit? I think that top 30, when people say top 30, it's really deceiving. It doesn't mean anything. It's just a 30.

6:46Just a 30 visit. It's teams get 30 of them and that's it. And I think a lot of fans would be surprised about some of these guys that are getting invited to the facility for a 30 visit and then immediately crossed off the list. It's not just an assumption that, oh, he's a 30 visit. They must love him. No, if they love them, probably not getting a 30 visit because they have all the answers they need. And usually the guys that are going for 30 visits are something where there's still lingering questions or we need to find out more about this guy and how is he going to fit in our building and whether it's something medical related or a personality thing or, you know, there's a lot of different reasons why teams use these 30 visits.

7:29And so I wouldn't make any sweeping proclamations about anybody going on a 30 visit to a specific team, just a PSA on those. it's a 30 visit to say hey let's get a closer look at this knee or hey yeah let's make this guy spend 36 hours with us and see if he if he doesn't drive us crazy uh exactly a lot of his personality driven it's it's crazy how uh you know like we the interview didn't go great at the combine we think he's kind of a weird guy um is he really gonna gel within our offensive line room Like, let's bring him in for a 30 visit and really put him through it and see how he holds up.

8:09And yeah, that's that it's kind of the part of the draft process that doesn't get talked about enough is the mental and personality part just to see if these guys fit into the culture and what these teams are going to be asking of these guys. Well, in this day and age, too, like when I first started covering the draft, it was a slog to get the names. And very rarely would you get all 30 of them. And you still typically don't. but you could, it was like follow, it felt much more like you were following the breadcrumbs because you had to work really hard to get those names. These days, it's out there all the time.

8:45Like most teams have a sizable chunk of their visits list leaked and teams know that at this point. And so if you really, really love a guy, you might be trying to keep him out of your facility so people don't know that. And most teams don't even use all 30. I mean, that's, but I would say this, I do pay attention to the non-combine guys that are invited to a 30 or a local because you can't draft a player unless you have full medicals on them. And combine, okay, you've got full medicals on 318 guys, but the non-combine players, those 30 visits, that's a big way, an important step in getting those medicals for the guys that weren't in Indianapolis.

9:31One more thing I would just point out, and then we can actually do the show, but teams can go to the prospect whenever and however they choose. There's a million different ways to get eyes on a prospect. That doesn't mean he has to be a 30 visit that comes to your facility. So I do think you're right that we've reached critical mass with the 30 visit stuff, but it is still really fun to see Jeremiah Love post a photo from the Titans facility and have everybody freak out. Like I still enjoy that even if I don't put as much stock in it as I used to. Yeah, it's part of the, okay, the draft needs to get here already process.

10:09Yeah, exactly. All right. In the spirit of the draft getting here, that's what we want to do today. I want to dive into some prospects. I got this idea when I saw you tweet a week or two ago just about how good the tight end class is and how overwhelmed you are trying to sort them out. And so I want to talk about it. And we're going to do this a few times in this final month before the draft. Robert and Derek will be part of it as well. But here on Building the Beast, we want to make sure we're diving into a lot of positions with some granularity and getting beyond the top 50 or whatever players.

10:46So that's what we're going to do today. And we're going to start with the tight end class, which we've been talking since October about how loaded this thing is. So let's really get into it, man. Let's just try to talk about as many tight ends as we can. Obviously, you could probably do 50. I'll try my best to keep up. I spent the last two days grinding through cut-ups and familiarizing myself with day three guys. A lot of good ones. I am not you, but I feel ready to go. And so let's just jump right into it. I would rather... I want to get through the big guys quickly. I don't know what we need to say about Kenyon Sadiq on a show called Building the Beast on March 24th.

11:25He's the top tight end in this class. He reset what tight ends are capable of doing at the Combine last month. He's versatile. He can do a little bit of everything. I guess if we're going to talk about Kenyon Sadiq quickly before we move on, can you, without trying to kill the guy, can you give me a reason why, like a reason not to draft him as highly as he might be drafted? Like if there is a flaw in Kenyon Sadiq, What do you think it is? Well, he doesn't have traditional tight end size. He's 6 '3", 240 pounds, 31 and a half inch arms. And, you know, that does show up when you talk about his blocking responsibilities.

12:06And he's a really competitive blocker in a split zone, second level lead blocks. But in terms of an inline guy or, you know, you don't really want him matched up on a defensive end very often. and so but you know the reason we're talking about him as a first round pick is what he can do as a pass catcher more so than anything else he did have six drops last year and so just being a little more consistent finishing catches that's something that you want to see but he's he made so many just rescue balls where the ball placement was off and he had to go rescue it that I don't have major questions about his hands.

12:48It's more just being a little more consistent in that area. But yeah, I think you're right. He was tight end one from the start. He was like 18 overall in my top 50 back in August. And he was right around that same place in midseason. And even now today, it's kind of in that same spot. So he's a good player, not quite on the Brock Bowers level, but he's a good player. He's going to come in, be a starter pretty quickly. do you think like the 43940 is so enticing and just jumping out of the gym all the physically freaky stuff that he can do do you think we're glossing over the fact that he is a size outlier and a pretty big one you know I mean 63241 I think was his combine weigh-in you're not talking about a big dude and even if you're not going to put him up on the line of scrimmage for the bulk of his snaps, or at least not for every snap, that still is fairly small by first-round tight end standards.

13:47Clearly, that doesn't worry you based on your evaluation, but is that getting talked about enough? I mean, it should be talked about. It's part of his profile. But I think, you know, you look at Sam Laporta, not the biggest guy. I mean, the way that the tight end position is used in today's NFL, it's, I think, less about making sure he fits in this perfect size, length, measurement, dimension box, and more about, okay, what makes you a difference-making player at this position? And for Sadiq, it's his ability down the field. 13 catches of 20-plus yards, okay, that'll play. He can win down the seam.

14:30He can win after the catch. He's really fluid. The route tree at Oregon was three levels, So, you know, it's not like you're going to be asking him to do something totally different once he gets to the league. You know, he is really good after the catch as well. So he can be a dynamic playmaker. It's just, you know, I think how you use him will be more similar to a Sam Laporta as opposed to how some of these other tight ends are used. We all love Mr. Sadiq. I would say we assume he'll be gone by somewhere in the top 20 picks. We know this. Enough. we can set that aside. Cause like I said, let's, let's go, let's go deeper.

15:10And now let's, all right. So we're pretty sure Sadiq is the only tight end with a realistic shot to get drafted on Thursday. Yes. So let's move to day two guys that we would imagine our second and third round picks. And there's a few borderline guys between Friday and Saturday grades, but it's a shorter list and we'll just, we'll go through them. do you want to go through them in your order or do you just want me to pull them at random yeah just pull them at random because I do think I'll say this it's going to be interesting with these day two tight ends because obviously they're flawed enough where we're not talking about them as first round picks and it's just you have to teams have to decide are they good enough to take here in this range when it is a loaded tight end class in rounds four five in that area and so and we'll talk about those guys here in a minute and so these teams have to ask themselves all right is this guy special enough or impactful enough where we should take him here in the second or take him here in the early third or should we go for a tackle or guard or whatever and then just wait for round four where there's going to be 10 tight ends that we feel good about so I think that this these day two tight ends are going to be really interesting um just on draft night on that Friday night to see how early they come off the board, what order.

16:33I'm just, I'm really eager to see how this whole thing plays out. All right. So announcement, we are not going in any sort of order. This is not a ranking. This is just, we're just covering as many guys as possible. So with that in mind, can we start with my new draft crush? Who you got? So I know exactly who he is. I've known the name since August. We talked about him on the preseason show, but when you catch like 18 passes during the course of your final college season, it's fine. I put you on the back burner, me personally. But let's talk about Georgia tight end Oscar Delp, Dane. Let's talk about Oscar Delp, dude, because this guy is fun as f**k, man.

17:18Like, I felt like I was watching an action movie, watching this guy play on my laptop on Monday night, getting ready for this show. Short action movie. I mean, you're right, but you know what, though? I'm at a point, Dane, and we've talked about this. Call it the Jackson Hawes effect, but I don't really care how great you are at catching the ball. Obviously, I want to see you be able to get downfield, and I want you to have good enough hands. I want to see some contested catchability. I want to know that that stuff is there, and we know it's there for Oscar Delp. I mean, he does have those moments.

17:56what I care about, dude, this guy can block his ass off, man. And I swear, like, if you watch a dozen tight ends in a row blocking, most of them are good, adequate, but it's a lot of like, it's a lot of get in the way. It's a lot of like, let me engage with this guy and hang on for dear life before I break out into my route. Oscar Delp is a violent, aggressive blocker. And like the number of clips I could pull up of him smacking his dude in the face with his helmet because of the intensity and the aggression that he's blocking with. It made me sit up in my seat and I was I was enamored with it, to be honest with you.

18:36And then you factor in the fact that he just ran a four, four, eight at his pro day. I came away with a lot to like for a guy that's never caught more than 24 passes. Yeah, his pro day. So he was flagged at the combine for a hairline fracture in his left foot. Wasn't allowed to work out. Wasn't. So and he really didn't even know about it. So he played the whole year with it. Yeah. But legally, he wasn't allowed to work out at the combine, even though he wanted to. So he had to wait till his pro day and still dealing with this issue and still worked out. So he, so at 245 pounds, ran a 4.49, 38-inch vert, 10.5 in the broad jump.

19:19Pretty explosive numbers for a guy that size. And I think you're right. I mean, I agree with pretty much everything you said. He's a really physical player in every aspect, receiving, blocking. He models his game after A.J. Barner, which I think is interesting. he's Delp is not as big and I wish you were a little bit longer sometimes you see that on film where especially as a blocker where he's lunging a little bit trying to compensate for that lack of length but you love the tenacity that he plays with the competitiveness I the lack of production is and look I'm I'm Mr. Traits over production okay like that's I believe in that wholeheartedly but still it sounds like there's a there's a but yeah there was a but coming Okay, but Brock Bowers was the key piece of this offense for how many, you know, his three years, basically.

20:12I know, that's a good point. Brock Bowers leaves, and it's like, all right, Delp's going to be the next guy up. And he couldn't reach 25 catches in any single season. And it's not like he missed time. He started double-digit games every single year, the last three years. Yet, he was never a central part of that offense. And it's like, all right, like you don't just, you have to really dig to figure out just how you feel about that. And that's why I think Delp's been on a lot of these 30 visits to teams as they try to figure him out, just better understand what's going on there. You know, why? Because the flashes are awesome.

20:50He might be the ultimate grades to the flashes guy. Like there's a few of these players in this draft where they're great. If you graded to the flashes, then you're going to like them a lot more than what the body of work says. Like Peter Woods, defensive tackle from Clemson is one of those guys. Oscar Delp absolutely is one of those players in this draft where if you graded to the flashes, you see an NFL starter. You see a guy that's going to be gone somewhere in the top 75 picks. And it's just a matter of which teams are going to be willing to do that, which teams are going to be having a little more question marks.

21:22But I totally get your excitement with the player. here's my cope and it might be cope I can afford to be a little more reckless than you it's my calling card unfortunately but I'm watching Georgia and obviously the Bulldogs have Gunnar Stockton at quarterback he's a first year starter he got in late in the season before because Carson Beck got hurt but Gunnar Stockton not a guy who would play a lot of football coming in most of these games I'm watching of Oscar Delp they're leaving him in to like help deal with like defensive linemen. Like you'll see plenty of clips of him, mano-a-mano with edge rushers.

22:04And you know, he's not going to be an offensive tackle at the next level. I'm not saying it was always gorgeous, but in my mind, I'm like, what if Georgia just thought Oscar Delp was more valuable giving Gunnar Stockton time and making his life easier than going out in the route. I mean, that sounds a little counterproductive because of how athletic he is, but I found myself wondering that with how often Oscar Delp was just staying in and helping to deal with pressure. Yeah. And I get it, but I mean, Brock Bowers had like how many, over 80 targets like in that offense, like he was such a big part of what they wanted to do.

22:43And like this past year, it was like, all right, we have to get Zachariah branch on this one yard whip route. Like, we got to do it. That's our offense. It's so true. But why? Like, if you have a talent like this, why aren't you using him more? And part of it, too, was Lawson Lucky, the other Georgia tight ends, really good as well. I mean, we'll be talking about him a year from now as a possible top 100 guy. And they had almost 50-50 target share this year just in terms of the tight ends. So that part of it, you know, that cuts into it. but still, and, and, and, you know, you don't want to, um, you know, make again, sweeping proclamations based off of just what the box score says.

23:25It takes a little more investigation than that, but, um, yeah, I, I, but I, I'm with you overall. I'm a fan of the player. Um, I think he will go, um, somewhere on day two. Um, I think, you know, third round at the latest, maybe he sneaks in the second round. We'll see. But, um, yeah, I think there's too much talent there. He, he grew up a big lacrosse player. Like he thought he was going to be playing professional lacrosse. And then at some point, you know, football kind of took over and he turned into this hybrid guy. But he's a really interesting player. In a world where a lot of tight ends are passive blockers, just go watch Oscar Delp smash people for 10 minutes and tell me you're not a little bit excited.

24:07All right, let's keep it pushing. We've talked a lot about this guy. I think we can do Eli Stowers out of Vanderbilt a little faster. He's a guy we've talked plenty about another guy who put on a combine showcase and he's, I think he's a little bit taller than Kenyon Sadiq, but am I off base for lumping him in as like the day two version of Kenyon Sadiq?

24:35I don't, he's not the blocker. Okay. Tell me. Yeah, like, I know he's just very limited where with with Sadiq, you can use him as a move blocker. And, you know, like he will be limited at certain situations in line, like we talked about. But Stowers, I think, is really limited just overall as a blocker. Like you want him almost as a big slot like that. That's kind of his, you know, I think about like the Mike Guseckis of the world where, you know, you can give him blocking assignments here and there. but you can tell he's a former quarterback who made the transition to tight end and he's done it really well especially in terms of catching the football but as a combo tight end like I don't think he's going to give you exactly what you're looking for you're drafting him because of what he does in the passing game you mentioned the combine numbers that reflects his on-field athleticism.

25:34It's just, he's a, he's a tricky one because of just the way he was using that offense, the ways that he's going to limit you as a blocker. But if the right role comes around, I think a team's going to look at him and say, okay, he makes our offense more explosive. And you know, I, so I just, it depends on where he ends up. That's a big part of this, that fit, which is so true about all these players we're going to talk about, but especially a guy like this. That fit category is so crucial for a guy like Stowers. I really like the Gusecki shout out. Like, I think that makes a lot of sense. And like the thing that excites me most about watching him is he is he's the guy that you can get enamored with because he's somebody that can go downfield and high point a ball in the seam, like 18 to 25 yards downfield.

26:25And like, it's it's easy to get enamored with that type of player, even if he's not as well rounded as you would prefer. And he catches the ball really well. For a former quarterback, it's like 3.9 % drop rate in his career. His catch radius is pretty good. He can make adjustments, bail out the quarterback. I do think that his experience as a quarterback helps him as a route runner, just in terms of steps and understanding how to read coverages, find those passing windows. He's a glider, just really graceful down the seam. He can sink, cut, and create his own separation. So there's a lot of things about Stowers that I think really translates well.

27:08It's just he's not going to be for everybody because of how specialized he is. And that's true about a lot of guys. Whether you're talking about Keontae Scott, nickel from Miami. He's an awesome player, but he's really specialized with how you want to use him as an attacking nickel. It's kind of, it's the same thing. We can, you know, every position, there's guys like this that are a little more specialized than you'd like, but in the right role, they could do something that's pretty impactful. I feel like even as recently as like three, four years ago, everybody would have been super in on Eli Stowers.

27:47And not to say people aren't, I mean, you have him as a day two grade, but I feel like we're rounding back into a place where people want to see you do more as a blocker because of what we've seen, you know, tight ends do for their offenses with that ability. And like you said, not to say he can't make an impact, but I think people would have been higher on this guy a few years ago. Can he get to serviceable? That's what teams need to ask themselves as a blocker. Can he become a serviceable blocker for us? If you believe the answer is yes, then you're going to feel a lot better about drafting him and somewhere in the top 75.

28:22So you have one more definitive day two grade and we'll do the borderline guys in a minute. The last of the definitive day two guys is a guy we've mentioned plenty of times, Ohio State's Max Clare, who just feels like an all around solid player. Like that was my impression. If I'm being honest with you, watching a few of his games from this past season, there wasn't one specific thing that got me excited. but I was just like, everything looks solid to me. And there were so many mouths to feed in that Ohio State offense that it did make it tough for him to really... Well, hey, everybody we're going to talk about, it's really hard to evaluate a guy who gets the ball like three times a game at most.

29:09Yeah, literally, he averaged under four targets per game in 2025. And so he did some really cool things at Purdue in 2024, goes to Ohio State for 2025 and made that offense better. He did, especially when some of the receivers were hurt later in the year, he took on more of a role and made some things happen. But the production is not going to jump out at you. But there's a lot to like about him as a player. He's really athletic. He can eat up grass quickly, especially see that on seams and crossers. He can throttle down, make these sharp, fluid cuts. I think he has a basic understanding of how to sell defenders with his hips, with his eyes, tracks the ball really well, finishes in contested windows.

29:54Blocker, he's going to give you just enough. He's competitive. He can wall off lanes. So there's a lot to like about Max Clare. And we don't have, he didn't work out at the Combine. His testing will be this week, probably Wednesday. So as you're listening to this, he's probably hopefully testing at Ohio State's Pro Day in Columbus. So we'll get those numbers. I expect them to be pretty good and kind of cement his status as a day two guy. I really liked his movement, especially once he gets the ball in his hands. He's got a surprising amount of giddy-up, in my opinion, and his foot skills are nice.

30:28I noticed a lot of teams ask their tight ends to block on the move, whether you insert through a gap and try to wash a guy out or coming off the edge. He didn't move as well in space as I wanted him to. Like I just I thought like like we'll talk about some other guys who it looks like they're glued to their block where they can just pick that guy out of the hole time after time after time. And it's very impressive. Max Clare wasn't as consistent at that as I wanted him to be for a guy with such a lofty grade. Not like not a bad blocker at all, but I just I think I went into it hoping for more.

31:10Well, and he was a 215 pounds soaking wet when he got to college. Like he's worked really hard behind the scenes to put on weight and really show that he could be, you know, that level of blocker. So it's a work in progress for sure. He was also a big baseball player. Like he went to Purdue as a dual sport guy and gave up baseball to focus on football. But I think that he is a player that's still the arrows up. Like we're not close to seeing the finished product with Clary yet. Okay, so that, if I'm not mistaken, is all of the surefire day one and two grades that'll be in the beast. Yeah, I think there's, like I said, it'll be interesting with those day two guys because of how deep this class is and where teams are going to feel comfortable with some of these guys.

32:05maybe there's another one that will fit into that third round. You know, it's possible there's a few guys that are on the borderline, but that late third until I'd say the end of the fifth, that's where this thing just explodes. So, and Dane, I promise we're not going to hold it against you if some of this stuff shifts over the next month, because I'm looking at it. You have 30 graded tight ends. We have talked about five of them, I believe. and we have so we have 25 more to go on you know borderline day two and day three of the draft we're gonna get into the meat of this thing right after this break a thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and last that's where quince shines premium fabrics consider design and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable even as the seasons change quince has the everyday essentials i love with quality that lasts lightweight cashmere sweaters, short sleeve Mongolian cashmere polos, linen bottoms and shorts, tees in 100 % Pima cotton and European jersey linen.

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34:56The best part? You can get experts' progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit TurboTax.com. only available with TurboTax full-service experts. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. Chicago, 2011. A cop is murdered. Police and prosecutors swear they have the trigger man. He swears he didn't do it. How far will each side go to prove they're right? Like it's just one bombshell after another.

35:37You know, you're like, what, what? The story of a PlayStation, a brain-eating amoeba, and the relentless pursuit of justice. Off-duty, out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

35:56All right, Dane, let's keep it pushing in our big tight end breakdown. Guy, you've talked about plenty. A guy that you've really liked through this entire draft process. That would be NC State tight end Justin Jolie, who's like, again, I think I would say on the list of guys that you think could sneak into day two potentially. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, he reminds me a lot of Jonu Smith, who another guy that just kind of snuck into that day two type of range where you're looking for that move tight end, that F tight end. I think Jolie has a lot to offer with that type of archetype. 92 catches for 1 ,100 yards and 11 touchdowns across two seasons at NC State, which like I said, a lot of guys, a lot of college tight ends just don't get the ball that often.

36:45That's just a reality of the position at the college level and what you're asked to do and how good the offense you're in is or how many competing players there are for targets. It was not a problem for Justin Jolie. And my God, I think a big part of it is if you have 10 and a half inch hands, 91st percentile hands. That's the first thing that stood out to me. When I look at a guy, I pull up their combine bio. So I have their official numbers and I know what I'm looking at. And my eyes went right to that. And then I watched, you know, 15 minutes of tape. And I was like, well, that stands out immediately.

37:20This guy's got hoovers for hands. Like everything that comes near him just gets vacuumed into his grip. And it makes him a lot of fun to watch. It makes him a contested catch monster. Like I love watching him over the middle of the field and he's very good at plucking footballs off of DB's helmets. It's very fun. Yeah. And he's another guy that really worked hard to put on the weight. He was 190 pounds as a high school senior, like barely recruited, went to UConn as a receiver, wide receiver, then made that transition to tight end. And he just keeps getting better and better, I think, every single year.

37:55And this year, the production wasn't maybe as much as 2024. But you watch an NC State offense and you watch the way they operate. And as inconsistent as it was, their best option was going to the tight end, especially when they got down to the red zone, especially on money downs. He had the ability to get open and make the quarterback right. So he has speed. He can work the seam. He can work the rail. at the top of routes he's really coordinated so you know he can stack he can separate and then you mentioned that the focus the physicality really helps him finish in traffic like the focus does not wane whether he's wide open or he's got a crowd around him and as a blocker he competes especially the wham blocks and the lead blocker he does a really nice job so So yeah, Justin Jolie is just a really solid player that I want in my tight end room.

38:52And if he snuck into the top 100, I don't think it'd be that big of a surprise. So that's what I was going to ask you. I'll be blunt. The college tape game is the Wild West. Like it's not NFL Pro where you can go get every single game. You have to, by hook or by crook, you got to do some shady stuff to get college tape for the most part. I don't feel as though I got a good... handle on Justin Jolie's blocking ability. I just didn't have access to enough stuff to have a good feel for it. But you think he's adequate, at least? I think he's competitive. Yeah. I think that, especially, like I said, those wham blocks where, you know, you see him get physical at the point of attack and he's going to stay after it.

39:39He's going to finish through the whistle. Yeah, I think he's good enough in those areas where, you know, he can stay attached, right? Like, he doesn't have the body power where he's just going to dominate, but he competes and he does his best to stay attached. And so that's something that will help him at the next level. In the same sort of draft range is a guy that's been talked about a lot since the combine, Sam Rausch out of Stanford, not to the degree of Eli Stowers or Kenyon Sadiq, but had a very, very impressive combine to go along with a four-year career at Stanford where he just got better every single year he was there, culminating with a 49-catch, 585 yards, or 545-yard senior season.

40:23My question for you, Dane, I was laughing about this while I was watching Sam Rauch. We always say, don't scout the helmet. And we typically say it like, if a good player's coming out of a program that has struggled recently, or like, you know, if a good player is coming out of a program where a bust just happened like two or three years ago, it's like, don't scout the helmet. Don't be lazy. These are not the same guys. What's the inverse of that? Like, is it okay that I just implicitly trust that Sam Rauch is going to work in the NFL because he's a tight end at Stanford? I mean, we could say the same thing about Eli Raritan from Notre Dame here.

41:03Yeah, we'll talk about Eli Raritan. Yeah. And I feel the same way where I'm like, all right, if he was good enough to do this at Notre Dame I just trust it's going to work yeah or uh Iowa if they had a guy yeah like they're certainly I think that there's whether you're talking about a wide receiver from Ohio State or yeah like there are certain positions this guy wears 86 at Stanford like he wears Zach Ertz's number Stanford has what I mean over the last decade you're talking about Zach Ertz Kobe Fleener, Austin Hooper, Dalton Schultz, Colby Parkinson, like, and ironically, Roush is really the first like major tight end prospect coming out of Stanford since Parkinson probably.

41:44And I just, I didn't have to think that hard about it. I clipped him on and I was like, okay, I see him blocking. I see him doing Stanford tight end stuff. He's got some, you know, he's moving nice with the ball. He's getting upfield. I just, I don't think I have to think too hard about it beyond that. Yeah. And he's, he's got a cool backstory because he was born in Atlanta, but, uh, moved around a little bit. And so he spent a good chunk in Malaysia and Jakarta and like, he was a rugby player growing up. Like he played baseball and basketball and soccer, but, uh, rugby was kind of where he developed his toughness and then he moved back to the States.

42:22And that's where, uh, he started playing football for the first time, never played until, until high school uh he has a you know family background his dad was a defensive back at duke um and so like he's got a really interesting family background um but uh like he's related to merlin olson it's his great uncle i believe and you know merlin olson was a 14 time pro bowl defensive tackle uh was in little house on the prairie like just a crazy check out the beast for all that background information. this is the beast in a nutshell right here. Exactly. But I mean, he, for a guy that is that size, which he was what?

43:026 '6", even 267 pounds to have that size and then to go out and test like he did with a 470 and the 40, 38 and a half inch broad, 10, 6 or 38 and a half inch vert, 10, 6 broad, 708, three cone. Really impressive. And then what I love guys that compete right and Sam Rauch at the Stanford Pro Day he had a great three cone 708 he thought no I could do better and he goes out and runs a 702 and says just for the heck of it let's let's shave a little bit of time off that three cone uh didn't get into sixes but for a guy that's 267 pounds to get down there at that number is awesome uh Washiro's a little bit longer that's he's like unusually short arm he has uh under 31 inch arms so it's rare to have someone that size 6 '6 but have under 31 inch arms and there's definitely times on tape where it shows in his blocking but man this guy is as physical as you could ask a tight end to be um there's a lot to like about too many drops uh that that's kind of part of his profile so the drops the short arms those are the two main areas where it's like, eh, it worries me a little bit, but everything else is kind of like, okay, I can work with this.

44:20This, this will translate. And so somewhere in those mid rounds, I think a team's going to get a pretty good player. His arm length is in the first percentile among tight ends in recent years. So it's worth noting. And I will say, like I said, you see Stanford star tight end and you just assume good things, probably not as dominant a blocker as I would have guessed when I went into it, but gets the job done for the most part. And I also found him to be like a twitchy athlete. You know, some of these guys, you can see the speed, but they've got to get ahead of steam going for it to show. I didn't feel like that was the case with Sam Rauch.

44:59Like I thought his short area quickness was pretty impressive for a guy his size. Yes, without a doubt. And whether that means getting open on, you know, there's a lot of underneath targets in that offense. I did wish he, we saw more red zone from him because as much as he could get open underneath, he just, the red zone targets just weren't there. And, you know, that's part of why his touchdown total was so low. Part of it was that offense as a whole. But I do wish we saw more red zone targets on his tape. Real quickly, let's, I mean, let's do the other tight end you guy. We mentioned Eli Raritan.

45:40He's got a similar grade for you, like high, high day three type of grade. I didn't, I did not see as much of Eli Raritan as I did of Sam Rauch, but I still, I saw the hallmarks of a Notre Dame tight end. I watched him against Miami. I watched him deal with Ruben Bain pretty admirably for a tight end. And he seems to have good athleticism. I mean, like how, how big is the difference do you think between Sam Rauch? Roush and Eli Raritan. Raritan's interesting, man, because he's like his career got off on a bad start because of knee injury. So like 2022, 2023, we're both disrupted by that. But then the last two years, he stayed healthy and he doesn't have a ton of production.

46:26But when he was targeted, he made plays. And so he's another guy that doesn't have the production that you want. but I mean, when you really focus on his targets, you're like, all right, this is a really good player. And, you know, he's a big target, 6 '6", 6 '6", and an eighth, 245 pounds, ran a 4.62 in the 40-yard dash, and I think that definitely shows in the way he plays. His dad played, his dad blocked for Brady Quinn. So he kind of grew up in the Notre Dame. Oh my God, that makes me feel so old. Right? Jesus. His dad played for Tyrone Willingham and Charlie Weiss back in like 04, 05 range.

47:08And so Raritan was kind of born into the whole Irish lore. And I mean, he did some nice things, but didn't have a touchdown this past year. It didn't have the impact that I think a lot of people thought he could. So it's just, what am I doing? Am I going to trust another one of these grade to the flashes guys? Am I trusting what the traits say and trusting what these flashes say? Or should I buy into the injury history early and then the lack of impact overall? He's a tough one to figure out. And he's still figuring some things out. It's not like he's a polished prospect by any means. So he's still figuring things out, but especially as a blocker, because he's so tall that I think that upright posture works against him.

47:57His hands wander a little bit. They're a little bit inconsistent. but he can still, he has the movements. He can reach, he can cut off. But I think you really like him as a pass catcher, how fluid he is. He needs to get better as a route runner. But I do think that the foundation is there for him to be a really good receiver at the NFL level. So, yeah, man, I'm really intrigued by Raritan. And I think teams are too. It's just how early do you draft a tight end with this type of profile? Well, I'm just not going to lose a lot of sleep about drafting a guy out of Stanford or Notre Dame. I like, and you know what, that'll probably bite me in the ass at some point.

48:38But over time, I think that philosophy proves true. One more guy I wanted to hit before we take our second break. And this is why I go to you and admire you. Because you mentioned to me, and I've heard of this guy, but you mentioned him as somebody you wanted to highlight specifically. and that would be Will Kaczmarek out of Ohio State. I mean, the profile, I totally get it. 6 '5.5", 264 for the Buckeyes. Ran a 4 '7", 440 with a 36-inch vertical. So very impressive athleticism for a guy his size. My thing is, Dane, you've got a nice grade on this guy. Yeah. He was like tight end three on an offense that already didn't have room for Max Clare.

49:23like I'm trying to watch Will Kaczmarek and get an idea of who the hell he is and there's just there's too much going on I'm watching Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate doing their thing Max Clair's moving all over the formation like you gotta watch a lot of Ohio State tape in order to assess a guy who caught 15 passes and I mean you've probably gone back and watched Ohio Bobcats tape because that's where he transferred in from see that that is that's why people come to you I have not watched Will Kaczmarek at Ohio University so please for a guy with such a limited resume this past season at Ohio State why are you so high on him well I would push back a little bit and say he played a lot it was just as a blocker yeah like Ohio he is a he is he's got a lot of attitude and I admire his aggressiveness for sure that Michigan tape, throwing that Michigan tape and watching him block.

50:22It's like, all right, sign me up for this guy. And look, Ohio State, they operated out of a multi-tight end set at like the second highest rate in all of college football last year. No, real quick. That's what pissed me off is Claire's wearing 86 and Kassmerick's wearing 89 and then there's an 85 and an 82 and they're all motioning around and trying to figure out who's who is a massive pain in the ass. and you can usually find Kaczmarek because he's bulldozing some guy at the second level. That's it. And he was probably the most underrated part of the Buckeyes national title winning team in 2024.

51:02Just because you don't notice him out there all that much because he's just, he's doing his job. He's not a guy that sees a lot of targets. He had only, what, I think eight in 2024 and then 15 this past year. They started to try to get him a little more involved. He had a couple of touchdowns, but his strength is, you know, we, there are, there are a lot of teams. They're going to be looking for that Y tight end, that traditional guy. You can line up in line and you want him to run routes, catch passes. He can do it. But more importantly, you want him to block and you want to be reliable as a blocker.

51:36And that's what this guy does. He's another former lacrosse player who he balances technique with violence with competitive edge and it shows mostly in his blocking and so I catching the ball is fun it's the sexy part of the position but teams want guys that will block and when we're talking about early day three uh the guys that are going to be blockers that's the guys are going to go that's what the teams are going to put value on more so than maybe the guys that are receivers only. And so that's why Kax Merrick and, you know, maybe, you know, Rausch will go and, you know, we'll see about Borkerker from Texas A &M.

52:22We're going to talk about it. Yeah. These guys are more of your traditional wide tight ends who will get after it as blockers. And then if you want them to leak out and go run a route, they can do that. And they, you know, not going to let you down. He had, you know, he didn't have a drop at Ohio State, Kax Merrick. So like when he was targeted, he made the most of it. But his value is as as a blocker in line. And that's what's going to get him drafted early day three. I'm not trying to hate. He was targeted 20. He was targeted 23 times at Ohio State. So, I mean, it's not a huge. I mean, when you're right, you're right.

52:58You know what, though? It's a good reminder because that's that's what I'm looking for. I want the tight end who can block. So I should care less that he only had 15 catches. It's just, like I said, there's a lot of stuff going on on that offense and a lot of eye candy. And, like, sticking with Will Kaczmarek can be a challenge when you're watching it. But, like, I mean, they trust him to go one-on-one with defensive ends. He'll pancake a defensive lineman, which gets my attention immediately. And, like I said, you can find half a dozen clips of him chirping at the guy whose ass he just kicked, too, which just gets me even more excited.

53:35Yeah. Hard-nosed blocker. He will bury guys. Like I said, throw on that Michigan tape and you can see him do it repeatedly. Yeah, he's he's a fun player that I think will a lot of teams are going to look at that. And, you know, we mentioned the Jackson Hawes effect. That's going to appeal to or it's going to help a player like Kazmarek. We got plenty more day three tight ends to go through. We're going to take one more break before we do it.

54:02It's that time of year again for Texas. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward, just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert Full Service, I know my TurboTax expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have to worry. That way, I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL offseason. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing solution with Intuit TurboTax.

54:37The best part? You can get experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full service experts. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. Chicago, 2011. A cop is murdered. Police and prosecutors swear they have the trigger man. He swears he didn't do it. How far will each side go to prove they're right? Like it's just one bombshell after another, you know, where you're like, what?

55:20The story of a PlayStation, a brain-eating amoeba, and the relentless pursuit of justice. Off-duty, out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kim Holderness from the Laugh Lines podcast. Let's talk about spring break. You might be thinking, oh no, Kim, nothing good happens on spring break. Well, I'm here to tell you, it's time to redefine our vacation time. We all deserve a getaway that is meaningful, but doesn't require a ton of planning. Spring break isn't what it used to be. It's better. This spring, stay three nights and get a$50 Best Western gift card. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at Best Western.

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56:09All right, Dane, are you ready for another draft crush? Who we got? I'm stealing him from you. I'm just, I'm getting hip to what you already knew because you've brought this guy up a few times during the draft process. I think he first popped up on my radar for Shrine Bowl purposes. Okay. But you've mentioned Jack Endries out of Texas a few times. and I sat down with Jack Inry's tape on Monday night, and again, I got really, really excited. 6 '5 guy, 245, had 91 catches for 1 ,000 yards across two years at Cal, and then goes to Texas. Again, a very, like a pedestrian stat line, which we don't care about for college tight ends, but again, I think when you think about Texas being a playoff contender two years ago, and Arch Manning being there, you think of the high-flying elements of their offense and settling in and watching Jack Endries.

57:06I was very impressed by how consistent I thought he was. Yeah, a little curious that his production was what it was because last year, 2024 for Texas, Gunnar Helm had like 60 catches in that offense. And I know the quarterback was different. And with, you know, Arch Manning, you've got a first year starter. But that's where I thought, OK, you bring in a guy like Endry is a talent like this. He could really eat up a lot of targets because of just the open underneath windows and looking to get the ball out of the quarterback's hands. It just didn't play out that way. I think it will be kind of interesting that he probably caught passes from the back to back number one overall picks the last two years with Mendoza, Cal.

57:53and then assuming it'll be Arch in first overall in a 2027 draft. Wow, just sneaking that in on the back end of a tight end show. I see you. He's a versatile left tight end. You know, he's really quick with the way he gets into his routes. He works himself open. Average size, average strength, like that'll definitely show like when he's blocking. But, you know, he can pull, he can do these different things. So like there's nothing dominant about him physically. but I think he's just a kind of like you said solid all the way around confident hands catcher I to me he's gonna go the gunner helm went like I think right around pick 120 and I think injuries probably somewhere right around there I think if you and I have when talking to scouts about injuries I always kind of ask okay helm or injuries and it's kind of split which you know who teams would prefer.

58:50And so I kind of expect them to go in a similar range. So this is what I liked about injuries. And I'll, I'll bring it back to what I said about Max Clare. Go watch a couple games of a guy. And like Matt, Max Clare is a really good player and it's not just Max Clare. It's a lot of tight ends. Like you'll see a guy motion across and go out into the flat and, and chip the, you know, the end. And like, he'll just, he'll just put a hand on him or he'll insert into the C gap and he'll overrun the block. or he'll insert into the C gap and he'll just sort of, you know, push the guy. And like, he got to him, but not as great as you would prefer.

59:26Every fricking time Texas asked Jack injuries to do that, he squared up on the guy and mashed him. And like, I mean, I know August was an eternity ago, but he was doing that to Arvel Reese and Sonny styles, like across that game where like, he's, you know, not like de-cleaning Sonny styles, but squaring up on him, getting him out of the hole and springing a run because of it. And he did that consistently across like every snap I watched. And on top of that, I just, he's, he's a smooth athlete. Like, yeah, I think he could do more than what his stat line suggests he did. And so I just, I thought there was a lot to like, like I was watching him and I was like, if Dane's telling me I can draft this guy in the fourth round, I'm signing up for it big time.

1:00:10Yeah. I think, I think of that Vanderbilt game like that where him as a perimeter blocker really showed and kind of showed his strengths as a player. And he's got an interesting background because he's a walk-on. Like he was actually a silent commit to Harvard at one point. And then he got an opportunity at Cal. He took it. He's preferred walk-on, eventually earned a scholarship. And then after Mendoza left for Indiana, that's when injuries jumped into the portal himself and found a home at Texas. but he's you know he wasn't he wasn't a football player growing up it was kind of an acquired taste for him once he got to high school and he's actually a defensive end his first year and then he moved to tight end so yeah a really interesting player who is still getting better and he's going to be probably in that fourth round mix I think a lot of the stuff we're saying applies to a guy we mentioned earlier at the rival school over at Texas A &M we've talked about Nate Boerkerker before.

1:01:11I see them as pretty similar players. I think I like injuries more as a blocker. Am I off base for thinking that they're pretty similar players? What do you think the biggest difference is? Interesting. I guess I hadn't compared those two guys apples to apples. I think with Borker, he's tougher because he's older. He's been around for a while. He's going to be a 25 year old NFL rookie. He was four seasons at four seasons at Nebraska before he transferred to A &M. So he has been in college for a minute. Couldn't get on the field there. And it was kind of like, all right, well, why, you know, why couldn't he get on the field at Nebraska?

1:01:55It goes to A &M and, you know, he did a nice job. I mean, he, whatever he was asked to do, whether it was a blocker as a pass catcher, I thought he was a nice part of that offense, showed good hands really high percentage of those contested windows he came away with those did a nice job being available to the quarterback so understanding when he's hot understanding when you know that pocket's breaking down and he needs to look back to the quarterback and just really helping him out I thought as a blocker he did a nice job with kind of rolling his hips for a taller guy rolling his hips into contact and driving his feet that's something that and straining through the echo of the whistle.

1:02:39I think that's something that will translate well. So I think they're both, they need refinement as blockers, but I was pleasantly surprised with Borker how reliable he was with his leverage for a taller blocker, the way he was able to generate some of the power from his lower half. So I think that he, to me, Borker gives you a little more versatility in terms of you can put him detached, you can make him, put him in a slot, you could do, I think, a little more things with him where with injuries, I guess I want him more on the move. I want him more as a pass catcher. But yeah, I think that they're both kind of in that same range for a reason.

1:03:23I thought Borgerker did a hell of a job against Dylan Stewart, who we will be talking about a lot. South Carolina. We will be talking about a lot next year if I had to guess. Yes, no question. Okay, I want your take on this guy who I had a fun time watching, but I don't really know what to do with him if I'm being honest. Okay. Give me your thoughts on Ole Miss' Daquan Wright. Yeah, I struggle with Wright. Because, man, he's a fun player. Virginia Tech transfer at Ole Miss. He, given points for toughness, He injured his right shoulder in, I believe it was a season opener, and he played through it the entire year.

1:04:10It's something that has kept him from working out during the pre-draft process, which is a bummer not having any verified testing on Daquan Wright. But, you know, he's he made some big plays for that Ole Miss offense throughout the year. and it's like, okay, the more you watch him, the more you're like, okay, he can kind of create his own separation at the top of routes. Okay, he put as many splash plays on tape as almost any tight end in this class and some of it was manufactured, absolutely, but some of it he did create on his own and the way he can catch the ball cleanly, he was number two in the FBS among all tight ends in yards per catch.

1:04:54so there's some big plays that he created on his tape this year so yeah I think he's a guy that is ideally he's your tight end three to start and then it's like okay can he do enough to become my tight end two is he enough of a blocker or does he give us enough of an impact as a pass catcher where we can trust him in that role that'll be the big question for him but it's just about because again once we get to day three it's all about trust with these tight ends and where do we trust him fitting in our offense? Do we trust him enough as a blocker? Do we trust him enough as, okay, can you make enough of an impact where we're going to line you up on a passing route and you're going to be where you need to be and be able to help convert third downs?

1:05:42That's where it gets tricky with these day three tight ends because the answer is going to be different from team to team. And so Daquan Wright, I think, will be higher for, and when I say higher, I mean like fourth, fifth round for some teams but then maybe seventh round for other teams. And that's true with, you know, Joe Royer from Cincinnati or Marlon Klein from Michigan for a lot of these guys. So I think that this is where the tight end position gets tricky in terms of projecting these guys because the projections are different from team to team, scheme to scheme. I'm struggling to articulate this, but see if you follow me.

1:06:18Okay. It's not really fair because like Daquan Wright is not significantly smaller than a lot of the guys we've talked about. Like, he's 6 '4", 246, which is not the biggest, but it fits just fine. But when I watch Daquan Wright, like, when he's in line, I'm like, he's too small to be in there with all of those big bodies. And then when he goes out wide, I'm like, ah, he's a little too big and sluggish to be out there in all of that space too. You know, like he's not Eli Stowers who fits out there just very, very perfectly. Having said that, if you get the ball in his hands, he is impressively fast and a real pain in the ass to bring down.

1:07:07Like if you get the ball to him, he is a weapon, clearly, based on what he did for Ole Miss. I liked watching him play. and like he's not a bad blocker either. Like you said, the fact that he did everything he did with the shoulder injury is incredibly impressive. I certainly think he's a willing blocker, but I was just watching him and I was like, I don't 100 % know what to do with you. And I'm sure some NFL team does, but it frustrated me while I was watching him play. I agree. And he's, because you're right, the splash plays are there. He had 12 catches of 20 plus yards this year. Only three college tight ends can say that.

1:07:47And so he was able to make some of those big plays. And some of those were manufactured where you get him in a little bit of a runway, whether it was a pick route where he's coming out on a slant or on a shallow cross or whatever it is. so he's very still very much developing technically and just being learning how to be more efficient as a route runner as a blocker but he flashes that athletic pass catching talent then you know it's you start to wonder okay how much upside is there where you know we can make this part of our offense so like I said I think you draft him as your third tight end hoping you can become your second and at some point help just give a extra boost to your offense talked about kasmarek and boraker as traditional wise another guy i wanted to hit on in that vein maybe with a lower grade would be would be khalil dinkins out of penn state the son of darnell dinkins again if you want to feel old eight year pro darnell dinkins who i think retired in like oh nine uh that one doesn't make me feel as old as some other ones but but definitely worth pointing out former uh super bowl winning tight end with the saints that's right um yeah um and dinkins you talk about lack of production um in five years at penn state he had like 37 total catches um so i was a kind of pleasant surprise when i saw him on the combine list uh as an as an invited guy which you know hey, I'm all for, you know, give these guys chances.

1:09:25He is someone that, as a blocker, he got better and better every single year. Because in high school, he was like a wildcat quarterback and, you know, caught the ball. But his blocking is something that had really had to develop. And I think he was able to do that. You know, he explodes through his hips. You know, there's strength in his hands. He likes to finish. so the pass catching tape yeah it's it's underwhelming it's not going to wow you doesn't have a body of work to get you excited but I think when we're talking about these late rounds if you're looking for a guy that has the promise to be something and to grow into something um I yeah I can see why teams would be a little excited about Dinkins and what he could be for you on the practice squad and then maybe uh on a you know final 53.

1:10:15So in your mind more of a developmental prospect than some of these other guys we've been talking about over the last 15 or so minutes. Yeah. And then look, if he shows out in camp and is able to earn a tight end three job and, um, you know, good. I mean, that'd be awesome. Um, I just think it's going to take a little bit of time for him to kind of get there, but I, there's promise there, no doubt. Like he, I think he's a guy that's been on a couple of 30 visits for teams as they try to figure him out more. It's just, I think teams are wanting to know how much more can you give us as a, as a pass catcher?

1:10:50You know, obviously we saw what Tyler Warren did in that Penn state offense in 2024. And no one would expected that to happen for Dinkins in 2025, but it's still like, okay, well, why, why didn't you give us a little bit more? And we did this with Delp and Bowers and it can be a little bit unfair just with the structure of the offense and and i understand game plans change and the way that you know you want to get move the ball around but still you want a little bit more body of work as a pass catcher um if you're going to be talking about drafting a tight end i mean going back to delp i i will overlook some things if there's something on your tape that gets me excited the way delp's blocking got me excited not to say like not to say it was all bad but inconsistency as a blocker and then the lack of a real role on offense, I wasn't as enthused.

1:11:44Not to say it was bad, but I'm not surprised to hear you say you view him as more of a developmental guy. I mean, I don't think he saw a single target over 20 yards. So it's not even like, he doesn't have bad speed. His speed's fine. It's a lot of flare outs to the flat and then trying to get yak. Which, I mean, that's what a lot of college tight ends do. I get that. But yeah, 49 career games played, he didn't reach 50 receiving yards in any of them. So it's just, you know, he wasn't used in that capacity. And that's part of why, you know, he's a late rounder PFA. You listed this guy in your Joker F category when we were planning this show out.

1:12:25And I'm interested to dive into that a little bit more because I got to tell you, another draft crush, because I think I texted you this morning and told you I had like six because there are so many fun tight ends. Very easy, yeah. Dallin Bentley out of Utah is a dog, dude. You're younger than you, but he's awesome. Oh, that hurts. Wait, how old is he? He's 25, but you're 26, right? So, yeah. Let's go with that, yeah. Ignore all the gray hair under my hat. I agree with you. He's awesome. Like he's just a, and I don't think anybody saw it coming necessarily. It's not like he was like, oh, he's next up in the pipeline.

1:13:11He's going to be awesome this year. You know, like a Juco guy. Dude, he did, he popped out of fricking nowhere. He had three catches over his first two seasons at Utah. Go back even further. He had one catch in all of high school. One. And it's fascinating when you look up his huddle page because his huddle highlight is one play. And because he was literally, he was 5 '8", 140 pounds as a sophomore and junior. So barely played. And then he hits his growth spurt before senior year becomes this 6 '4", 250 pound tight end for a senior year. And he's going to go have this breakout senior year. First season opener, first play of the season opener, 40 yard bomb, catches it, broken tibia, fibula, done.

1:14:03And so, you know, he was a, that totally sidetracked things, you know, did, you know, the, the mission. And so he was out of, after high school, he did the mission. So he was out of sports completely for a couple of years, comes back and he decides, Hey, I'm not done with football. So it goes to snow college, did enough there for a year. It's able to go to Utah. And the end of the last two years, he was barely a blip on the radar, even though he did start as a junior he just he wasn't a big part of the passing offense and so this past year was just a real just uh encouraging bump for a guy that I don't think a lot of us saw coming but he he's really efficient I I love tight ends that are um really efficient after the catch and we watch Bentley when he is uh receiving the ball he's able that you see the fluidity in the way he moves but he also has that drop step at the catch so it's not like okay catch drop step move he's doing his drop step as he catches the ball so it just accelerates things further so he's able to get a head start on the yak on you know those hidden yards um and that that's a big part of his game um natural hands catcher didn't have a single drop in 2025 so man there's a lot to like about Bentley that you know if we're watching the draft on day three and he comes off the board early round four, I wouldn't be shocked because there's a lot to like about this guy.

1:15:31I love when my notes line up with something that you bring up because when you watch him, like you watch a lot of these tight ends, they're good athletes, but when you see a guy do an in-cut or try to do like a pivot route, you're like, yeah, you're 6 '6", 250. It's fine if you look a little stiff or slow doing this. That's physics. I get it. But when you watch Dallin Bentley do this stuff, 6 '4", 253, he looks wide receiver-esque when he makes cuts and turns back to the quarterback and then pivots and tries to get upfield like there's no wasted movement everything looks smooth and fast and explosive and it's like again like you watch 20 of these guys in a row it's kind of eye-popping when you turn that on and see the difference and you're like oh this guy's got a little bit of extra juice than a lot of the guys we're talking about and I mean look I don't care if he's 28, like at tight end, you can still get some useful play out of this guy.

1:16:29Like I'm, I don't give a shit. And, and the only, I bring it up too. I don't know if you would want to play him in line all the time, but when I was watching him block, like he is getting movement. He's driving guys off the ball. He's sealing alleyways. Like I thought he was a plus blocker for how big of a piece of the passing offense he was. Like, I don't think he's a, he's not a receiving tight end that you just hope to get by with as a blocker. At least I didn't think so. Yeah, I think that's fair. He's aggressive, but he's undisciplined as a blocker. That's kind of how I would describe him.

1:17:04I'm down to coach discipline if you are aggressive and willing. That's fine with me. Well, and I think he would have had, I don't know, 25 more catches if his quarterback was accurate. Like he was a big part of what they were doing at Utah this past year. And he's another guy where I love guys that compete, right? So at the combine, he 6 '4", 253, 462 in the 40, which is awesome. And 35 vert, 910 broad, 442 short shuttle. At the pro day, he decides 462 is not good enough. I'm going to run again. Okay, gets to 459. So he gets into the 45s, which is awesome. Improves his short shuttle to 418. Also does a three cone.

1:17:47He was at seven flat for a guy that was 253. So pretty good testing that matches up with what you see on film. All right, let's do the last. We'll move a little quickly so we don't do a 90-minute tight ends preview on Building the Beast as much as our listeners. We still don't hit everybody. No, exactly. Okay, I do want to talk about a couple more like H-back type guys. Okay. You gave me two for homework. and I mean one of them is your favorite in the world. So let's start with Riley Nowakowski. And like I watched plenty of Indiana football this year. I was well familiar with him. But sitting down and just watching number 37 on Indiana for a while, I get why you like him so much.

1:18:33I completely understand it. He's just so useful. I mean, he's so versatile with that RPO heavy scheme, whether he was in line, backfield, slot, whatever. He was that unsung hero of the Hoosiers National Championship run. Because again, you can't watch Fernando Mendoza in that offense without noticing number 37 and just what he was doing out there. The way he was impacting the game. Wisconsin transfer. he was a former walk-on who has you know and he was a linebacker when he got there they moved him to fullback they try to find a spot for him in Wisconsin and they just they they're like we love this kid he works his butt off does everything we ask we just you know we can't find the right spot for him and then he finally kind of breaks through his final year at Wisconsin he was a team captain he decides six year okay change of scenery go to Indiana and man, he was as big of pickup as some of those other transfers they brought in.

1:19:41Just as a blocker, as a short yardage receiver, he just, he catches everything. He's very stout in his lower half. And so he can set an edge. He can halt power. He can seal run lanes. He's really juiced up as a lead blocker. He can uproot defenders on drive blocks. So yeah, Riley Nowakowski is just, he can do a lot of things for your offense. And that's that name of the game is versatility on day three with these guys. And that's what he offers. I think there's a theme for it, but watching these guys, like I was just drawn to the guys who play with attitude. And like you watch Riley Nowakowski play, he sticks on his block for the entirety of the snap.

1:20:27Like, and he's usually still wrestling with the guy after the whistle and just banging heads with people and doesn't let himself off of guys. I mentioned this before, but again, so many times you'll see a tight end, like you're going to block and then break out into your route. And a lot of these guys just sort of give the end like a side hug, just sort of like, oh, hello, they'll lean into them and then break out into their route. It's very uninspiring. Riley Nowakowski is going to smash you. Like he is going to get his lick in before he gets out into his route. And stuff like that just resonates with me where I'm like, all right, you're playing with some attitude.

1:21:06You are willing and able to make yourself useful in addition to being a nice receiver. I just, he's a fun guy to watch. Yeah, he's fundamentally sound. He's tenacious. He dies slowly on his blocks. Like he just, he - That's a good way to put it. Yeah, it's like what you're saying. He stays attached as long as he can and usually long enough. they gave him carries he had two touchdowns this year on uh like fullback runs uh short yardage so whether you use him as a utility h-back uh fullback tight end whatever he's just he can execute with whatever you ask him to do and yeah i mean that that's gonna have some type of use at the next level real quickly i just i wanted to ask you i mean clearly you're you're not concerned about his overall profile?

1:21:55I mean, 6 '2", 250, like, I don't know if he's going downfield for you very often in an NFL offense. I mean, does that concern you at all? Yeah, I mean, it took till his sixth year till he was actually, you know, part of an offense that would give him targets. Like, I don't think his route pacing is going to fool anybody and like fool coverages. I think that, you know, there's plenty of things about his, not plenty, but there are parts of his pass catching profile that give you some pause. But at the same time, I don't think you're drafting him to be a central part of your offense. You know, it's going to be really how Indiana used him this past year.

1:22:35So someone will find a use for that as your backup tight end and a guy that when he gets on the field, you know exactly what you're getting. And like another thing is, too, when you get to these day three tight ends, trust and just understanding that the guy you're getting day in, day out. Like, now Kowski just checks those boxes. So it doesn't matter if he sees, you know, 40 snaps in a game or two snaps in a game. He's going to be the same guy every single day of the week, preparation, all of that. And there's value in that. So the usefulness, it's not just about what you see on the field. It's about the intangibles and what happens between games as well.

1:23:17Another H-back sort of tight end we wanted to highlight, that would be Alabama's Josh Cuevas. which here's my analogy for Cuevas, Dane. I, I watched him before I watched Noah Kowski. Okay. And I, I liked what I saw and I like, he's a useful blocker. He can do some things for you as a receiver. And I thought about like when you go to buy a car and like, you're just like, I just want the bare bones. Like I don't need the GPS. I don't need the, the touchscreen console. I don't need the auto start. I don't need that shit. I just need a car that's going to get me to work. And that's fine. And then you watch Noah Kowski and you're like, oh, but the touchscreen is really cool.

1:24:00And like the auto start is really cool. Like, I don't know. I think I might want the bells and whistles. Yeah. Like that's, that's kind of how I felt about it. I thought Josh Cuevas, a really useful player, but I think I'd probably rather draft Noah Kowski earlier if it were up to me. Right. And I think that's, yeah, that matches up with kind of where I'm at. Like I, Cuevas will probably be in that six round range, Raleigh Nowakowski a round earlier kind of deal. Yeah, Cuevas, yeah, he's got his limitations, but I think he's tough, he's physical. You know, he's got a feel for working zones as a pass catcher.

1:24:40Kind of reliable, I guess. Like I don't, there's not a lot of like impact potential. He's just well-rounded. He commits to whatever you ask him to do. and so in the right situation, he's going to have value as that F tight end, that fullback. It's just, impact potential is not really what he's going to bring to the table. One last guy, no, two more guys I wanted to hit. I'll just, in the sake of transparency, these were the guys I didn't get to. I could not get my hand on RJ Maryland tape in time for the show, but RJ Maryland, You run a 4-5-1 at the Combine, and that kind of got him on people's radar.

1:25:24And selfishly, he's the son of former Cowboys number one overall pick, Russell Maryland, which is interesting to me. So I definitely want to talk about him at least briefly. Yeah, he got his dad's size, but definitely the speed came from somewhere else. I was going to say, not the same positions at all, for sure. Yeah, exactly. because RJ when you think about you know like a defensive tackle son you think oh he must be a big wide tight end well no I mean he's he's a guy that's going to be you know screaming down the seam and working down the field he's got speed you know he had his mile per hour at the combine was faster than Carnell Tate and a lot of receivers so he has speed had the knee injury that really wiped out like he go back to like 2023 he was seemed like on an upward trajectory and then 2024 had the right knee injury this past year at smu kind of looked the same kind of got back to where he was but not fully and so i part of his uh profile is going to be how much do you feel like he he has the the upside of what he showed earlier in his career can he get back fully to that pre-injury form because if you can you might have a mismatch weapon here with the way that he can impact the the the game as a as a pass catcher down the seam so I'm intrigued by Maryland but I don't think he's he's not like a lock draft pick because of you know so you know he's like I said limited as a blocker you worry about just can you get back to that full that full form that you showed before the injury so there's a lot to like about him but I don't know that it's necessarily going to be a slam dunk draft pick.

1:27:10And we'd be remiss if we didn't wrap this up with a guy who wasn't even invited to the combine. Your man, Carson Ryan out of BYU. Let's finish it up with a Dane special. Highest graded non-combine tight end this year, Carson Ryan was at Utah, originally at UCLA, goes to Utah and really wanted more targets, which is ironic because Dallin Bentley stayed and got the more targets. Ryan transferred to get his targets, goes to obviously Utah's arch nemesis in BYU. And he had a good year. He's a little stiff and you see that at the top of routes and after the catch, but he's got good, decent straight line speed.

1:27:58He catches the ball well. He's another guy that is just, he does whatever's asked of him. And so he's urgent, but he's controlled. He's got a little bit of creativity to him. As a blocker, he's both quick and physical. And so there's a lot to like about him as a day three type of tight end. And so I think he's got the makeup of somebody that's gonna stick. And I think that's, he's got a lot of useful qualities. So I think that's gonna help him. All right. We went long. I think this is a position that not only deserves, it requires going long. I have no qualms about it. I hated not, like Marlon Klein we didn't get into from Michigan, Joe Royer from Cincinnati.

1:28:45It's just, it's too, this position is so deep this year. It's hard to get to everybody because there's literally, I think 25 that I gave a draftable grade on and then like another five that are fringe guys. So there's so many names that, you know, it'll be really interesting to see how the order they actually come off the board when we get to draft weekend. I was going to say, I mean, we did our best and we still probably left 12 guys off. You know, if you're a Marlon Klein fan, Michael Trigg out of Baylor is a guy that gets a lot of talk. DJ Rogers from TCU. But guess what? in a couple of weeks, you can read more than you've ever wanted to know about all of them in the beast.

1:29:29So until then, we'll be back next week. We're going to keep doing this. We're going to keep diving into the positions, but Dane, this was a lot of fun. Can't wait to do it again soon. And we'll talk to you all next time.

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