Building the Beast: Why defensive backs are the crown jewel of the 2026 NFL Draft class

0:00¡Colocard! ¡Colocard! ¡Colocard! ¡Colocard! ¡Colocard! ¡Colocard! ¡Colocard! ¡Colocard! ¡Sopla! ¡Sopla! ¡Traigan la manguera que son 45! Cuando cumples 45 te toca soplar muchas velas y examinarte contra el cáncer de colon, ya que al detectarse temprano es más tratable en 9 de cada 10 personas. Usa la prueba de Cologuard en la privacidad de tu casa y envíala de regreso para obtener tus resultados. La prueba de Cologuard es una opción con receta para detectar el cáncer de colon en personas de 45 años o más con riesgo promedio. Resultados positivos deben ir seguidos de una colonoscopía. Pueden darse resultados falsos positivos y falsos negativos.

0:40La prueba de Cologuard no reemplaza la colonoscopía en pacientes de alto riesgo. No uses Cologuard si has tenido adenomas, si tienes enfermedad inflamatoria intestinal y ciertos síndromes hereditarios o un historial personal o familiar de cáncer de colon. Pide la prueba de Cologuard a tu médico. Para más información en español, visita cologuard.com-prueba.

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2:06I am your host Dave Hellman and we are in the final countdown. A week from right now, Dane Brugler's annual draft guide, The Beast, the namesake of this podcast, will be available for download. You can get your hands on it starting next Wednesday, April the 8th. We're finally there, y 'all. I think I can speak for Dane, confidently say a lot of hard work and effort going into this. I'm sure he is excited for y 'all to get your hands on it. Until then, though, we've got a really great episode for y 'all. We're going to continue to take a deeper look at this 2026 draft class. We decided to combine two positions today.

2:44Just figured we'd knock out the entire secondary in one episode. Dane y yo took a deep dive into a muy fun safety class with a lot of really cool prospects at the top, as well as the cornerback class. Very topical day to be doing this show. Some news as it pertains to Tennessee cornerback Jermad McCoy, as well as Clemson's Avion Terrell covered all of that and took as best we could a very deep look at the corner and safety classes in this year's draft. Let's get right to it. ¡Gracias!

3:48Si te encuentras frustradas sobre los tiempos, es todo en mí. Me siento. ¿Y lo que? Yo siento menos estrés este año que más años. Yo creo que estamos en un buen spot. 400 reports están en. Están en. Este semana es realmente sobre estos finales de pro días. Jermón McCoy, ¿qué estamos haciendo? Tentese es lo que está ahora mismo. Están en el programa. Indiana es mañana. Obviamente, Fernando Mendoza. No uno expects a test. pero hay algunas indiana athletes trabajando en el pro day que están muy eager a ver esos números no es que no es que cambia la rankings o lo que más o lo que más en la profilidad pero es still just data points que quiero hacer pero sí, creo que estamos en un buen spot pro day información para todos los chicos incluyendo un poco de mil más todos los birthdates todos los 400 reports están en la parte de ahí so I know I get a lot of questions about hey is this guy really 22 or is he 25 and it's all going to be in the draft guide so yeah look I can't wait for next week when it finally comes out next Wednesday draft yeah the guide's out next week it's being submitted later this week the hay is most of the way in the barn hopefully you can find some time for I don't know a ribeye and a beer or whatever your celebratory meal of choice would be we save that for May Porque, yeah, once the guide comes out, then it's like a media blitz tour for three days.

5:17And then it's, there's so much work, you know? I think you're allowed to do it. You're allowed to have two celebratory meals. Like, treat yourself at the end of this week, and then we can have another one when the draft's over. All right, I'm going to record that and send it to my wife and make sure she knows. Yeah, exactly. All right, so I introed it on the show, but we're combining cornerback and safety in today's episode, Just in the interest of getting through as many positions as we can before draft week gets here. So you teased it, Dane. Normally, I would start with cornerback on a normal day.

5:53But Tennessee is having their pro day right now. And the long-awaited potential workout of Jermod McCoy is potentially on deck. So full transparency, we're pushing corner to later in the show just to see if we can get an update on Jermod McCoy. antes de poner este podcast en la can. Así que voy a empezar con el de safety instead, que hemos hablado a lot sobre el año. Habla con el grupo de la senioridad que fue a la senioridad. Unos un grupo de equipo. Unos un grupo de equipo. I hate to call it top-heavy porque creo que hay buenos players all throughout, pero el top de esta posición es muy, muy excited con el primer round guys y se siente como un buen spot en día 2 as well.

6:37Pero, rather than me say that, I'll throw it to you as we get into our safety preview. Can you just outline for me what you think of as the strength of this safety class? Maybe what that sweet spot looks like. And if you're a fan whose team might need a safety, what are we eyeing here over the three days of this 2026 NFL draft? It's not a super deep safety class, but the players that are going to be drafted are worth getting excited about, I think. Obviously Caleb Downs gets mostly attention at the top And in my opinion he should He's the best player at the position this draft has to offer A little curious that he chose not to test during the process I don't think he's hiding from anything Just my own opinion Watching him on tape, show me the tape where he's slow It's not there If you're telling me he's hiding from something You're making stuff up Because there's not tape where Caleb Downs looks like he's athletic es athletically deficient.

7:38He might not be a 4 '3 guy, but if he ran a 40-yard dash tomorrow, I bet it'd probably be 4 '5 '2", something like that. He's above the line. And that's all I care about with Caleb Downs because the reason that you're drafting him as high as you are is because of what he brings to the field mentally and physically. Just the way he can tackle, the way that he can handle everything on the back end of a defense, get everyone in the right spots, the communication factor. And I don't think que se ha hablado de nada y hemos hablado de Caleb Downs a lot this process, pero para a safety show, I think it's worth bringing up again a guy like Devin Weatherspoon y cómo mucho he meant to that Seahawks secondary que es lo que Caleb Downs brings to the back end of your defense porque de la inteligencia factor, getting everybody lined up la comunicación que necesita que involucra he does all of that y él también ha hecho la playa de la run en la pasca tres defensas coordinadores de la última tres años y él fue la centerpiece de todos esos defensas y él fue el momento que llegara a la campaña Caleb Downs creo que es la mejor que la clase de la posición Dylan Theoneman de Oregon ha sido el otro y luego I'm un gran fan de McNeil Warren de Toledo siempre ha sido desde que hablamos de él y él también es parto de that first round conversation.

9:01So we've talked a lot about the first round guys, and I'm going to try to do this the same way that we did tight ends, where let's get through the guys that we have discussed a lot. I don't really know how much there is left to say about Caleb Downs. I like you bringing that up, and I said this on a show with Robert and Derek last week, where I do think it's worth saying that the people I have talked to on NFL staffs agree with your assessment, porque yo estoy seguro que se trata de similar a la gente puede ser un pequeño pero el athleticismo es no lo que la NFL se preocupa con si no lo que no se ha pasado durante este proceso creo que Caleb Downs es un perfecto aceptable y es un problema de la mentalidad y lo que se lleva a la cabeza desde un cerebro ¿cómo se hace que le haga him drafted because I do think it's fair to say he doesn't have like a unicorn type of profile but I think we've laid it out pretty perfectly and now we just wait to see what the range looks like for Caleb Downs and let's be honest like he's he's 208 pounds like he's not like he's small like he's definitely not small like he's he's Troy Polamalu's size you know like he's you know six he's right around 5 '11 5 '11 and a half 206 208 pounds that's his that's what his playing weight es, es no es no es no es no es no es no es no es no es no es no no no es no es no es es let's play this game y we move on really quickly we laid out Caleb Downs as adequately as I think we can when would you start to be surprised that he is still on the board or when would you potentially say there no way he will still be here at this pick like what do you think that number is because I do think it's completely plausible that he slides a little bit even if people think of him as like a top five overall prospect but like at a certain point you got to draw a line for me I would say it's somewhere around like pick 15 or 16 but what do you think so you think even you get past 12 in Dallas It depends on who else is there Because I know Dallas likes him But if the right player was there Maybe they would pick somebody over Caleb Downs I think it's at least possible Yeah, I think it's possible He is definitely, I think, a wild card In the top 15 He could go 5 to the Giants And wouldn't bat an eye He could go 12 to the Cowboys Wouldn't bat an eye I don't think either of those two would be surprising Es difícil, porque hay muchos equipos que no pueden draft a safety Y no tiene nada que ver que no se test O que es...

11:50Teams no draft a safety que early Yo creo que los Bengales han sido uno de esos equipos Y creo que los Bengales son un interesante Porque ellos podrían usar un player como ese Pero si no pueden ir contra el tipo Usually no es un equipo que no They've got very strict parameters By their draft history And so I think there's a couple teams like that That I'm really interested to see Would Caleb Downs get past A couple of those teams And the Bengals at 10 are one of them The Cowboys at 12 are one of them But yeah, I think he's going to go top 15 It's just a matter of where And like I said, he's a wild card I don't think, like if he's still there at 12 I don't think that means he's falling It's just, he was always has always been this way, right?

12:38It's always been, he's just a wild card. He's not going to be for everybody because that's what some teams philosophically how they view the position. So Dylan Thienemann, we've talked about as a guy who really improved his stock with a fantastic combine. I'd say pretty firmly cements himself as a first round pick, but again, with the safety position, maybe it's a little bit harder to gauge. I think that's a perfectly reasonable prediction. I did like talking about him as a player more so than just his combine workout. I did. I went back and watched a few games over after watching him during the season.

13:18And this is it's a common thing with with college safeties. I just I want to see more because a lot of times like Oregon played him so far back a lot of the times and I wanted more films. y más clips de más de que familia solar panels, de と виml y срав sanidad de la segunda y la cantidad de cosas que pudo hacerlo. ABORDIAM glory es un Ciao.곰도s wanted Issaï a menos más deiniILLAS en étantwan Bitina, pero bien just Saw the adequately morando. Obi por que una cellulita, Águanta Kon det rein. Es la verís.

14:00Si tu puedes un teléfono Si tu puedes un teléfono point of attack y si no está viendo el cut-ups donde es que es más de la playa que es que es haciendo o no es que puede ser un poco de slog y con él he was a hybrid para Oregon con un medio, robber un poco de nickel en ahí y así creo que hay un poco de todo ahora que se va a la perdue tape y un poco de single high y siendo asked que juega ambos lados, cosas así. Pero él es un producto de post-safety. Y incluso en el combi, él fue un top 25 para mí. Y creo que es un punto de vista que, bueno, la seguridad es una de los posiciones donde yo no voy a dingos si no hay enough producción porque, por lo que eres tú, pero si hay un montón de producción, es un otro otro en tu cap.

14:53Y creo que con Thiena Men, la última tres años, tú tienes más de 300 tackles, 8 interceptions You're showing up consistently You did it at 2 different programs He's also a guy that's like The makeup's off the charts Talking to somebody Last week It was like If you told him that You could get better By eating Japanese snapping beetles He'd be on Amazon And have them delivered to his house Within an hour That's just how he's wired. He wants to be the best. He's going to get everything he can out of his talent. So I think that's part of this too. With Caleb Downs and with Theenam, guys that are just, whatever you want them to do, they're going to do.

15:41They're very coachable, and that's only going to help them when it comes to the first round and as teams kind of stack their board. What is your idea of what Emmanuel McNeil-Warren's role might look like, at least in the early days of his NFL career? Good question. I do think that he can do a couple different things. He's not scheme-specific. He's not where he's only this. If you watch him at Toledo, he's mostly a boundary safety. They did ask him to play a little bit closer to the line. They would rotate him where he would move to nickel. especially when they did a lot of tempo. They would ask him to maybe pull back and do the deep half.

16:31So I think that there's not like a specific, he has to play this role, has to play that role. But he is a little more of the size because he's a legit 6 '3.5". He's a bigger guy. So he can play closer to the line of scrimmage. He can be a little bit versatile for you. So I don't want to box him in and say he's definitely this. I think he, because he has, the way he can read the field, the way he can roam the way he can play I do think that he can play with a little bit of space and he can close that space quickly make plays so I like him as you know I don't think he's boxed in put it that way I don't know did you see it differently than that no I think I don't want to overreact but watching Emmanuel McNeil Warren over the last week or so I'm not going to say the name of the guy in Seattle whose name we say too much but like right right right i mean that that's i i can i can see the vision if you want like a big nickel who i think he's definitely got some work to do in coverage but it's certainly not like this huge liability and then my thing dude a i mean the stats are the stats he's clearly got a knack for getting the football like what was it like eight or nine forced fumbles over the course.

17:529 over his career. 8 over last 3 years. Are you familiar with what they call an alligator roll where a gator chomps down on you and then starts twisting you under the water? That's what Emmanuel McNeil Warren reminds me of when he tackles people. He gets his arms on you and he's going to wrap you up and you're not getting away. I thought he was a very impressive tackler and I was like yeah let me add this big ass body to my run defense and hopefully he'll he'll grow into a better coverage player I I understand the intrigue with this guy after watching him for sure even if like I said I mean I don't know I didn't come away super impressed with him as a coverage guy at this point in his career but there's a million reasons I'd be very excited to draft him other than that right now yeah no I think so I would encourage people to go back and read the story I did in September on him and just how Jason Candle the head coach of Toledo found him in a shoot around at basketball practice and was like okay we got something here and McNeil Warren he stayed loyal he had options to transfer up and he decided as they put a Toledo with the coaching staff that developed him with the guys that you know he came up with and I don't I don't think it's going to hurt him put it that way it didn't hurt Quinnion Mitchell I don't think it's going to hurt Emmanuel McNeil Warren either all right I want to do this all in a block so let's take an earlier break than usual right now and then I want to talk about the day two safeties in this draft which really feels like an exciting clump of players where you could potentially get good value we'll do that in one sec

19:44¡Solid 11 años, Rafa! ¡Sopla, sopla! ¡Traigan la manguera que son 45! Cuando cumples 45, te toca soplar muchas velas y examinarte contra el cáncer de colon, ya que al detectarse temprano es más tratable en 9 de cada 10 personas. usa la prueba de Cologuard en la privacidad de tu casa y envíala de regreso para obtener tus resultados. La prueba de Cologuard es una opción con receta para detectar el cáncer de colon en personas de 45 años o más con riesgo promedio. Resultados positivos deben ir seguidos de una colonoscopía. Pueden darse resultados falsos positivos y falsos negativos. La prueba de Cologuard no reemplaza la colonoscopía en pacientes de alto riesgo.

20:27No uses Cologuard si has tenido adenomas, si tienes enfermedad inflamatoria intestinal y ciertos síndromes hereditarios o un historial personal o familiar de cáncer de colon. Pide la prueba de Cologuard a tu médico. Para más información en español, visita Cologuard.com diagonal prueba.

21:10¡Gracias por ver el video!

21:27go to prove they're right. Like it's just one bombshell after another, you know, where you're like, what? The story of a PlayStation, a brain-eating amoeba, and the relentless pursuit of justice. Off-duty, out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

21:50Alright, Dane, a quirk about me as a draft guy, and you know from working with me, I just, I get really excited about the value I can find between like picks 35 and 60 I just I have an easy time talking myself into I don't know if you want to call those hidden gems because it's still pretty high up the draft board but the guys that are in first round consideration but aren't quite there I just I have a real weakness for them and that's why I love day two on this podcast it's the best we do yes it is the absolute best and I just I feel like the value is so good for the safety position on day two like starting on early Friday and going up to the mid 50s I feel like there's going to be a really nice handful of guys available do you want me to start or do you like do you have a name that jumps to your mind when you think of this range or do you want me to start why don't you start with like the favorite guy that you have maybe on day two of these safeties okay it changed it changed because I had a favorite guy when we started, like when we did the production call, I had a favorite guy and we'll get to him because I like all these guys, but I spent some time this morning and it's a guy we've talked about before, but I spent some time this morning re-watching Keontae Scott.

23:10What a player. What a football player, Dane. And like, I don't know exactly what he is in the NFL. Like, he's like a nickel. He's like He can be a box safety. He did some free. He plays in the slot. I mean, 13 tackles for loss as a DB is absolutely insane. I think you've got to be creative with what you do with him, but the athletic profile, his instincts, his nose for the football, just a phenomenal season for him at Miami and re-watching him. I wanted to make sure we highlight him as one of my very favorite guys que queda disponible en día 2. En la gráfica tu estaba vivo en la not victoriasta.

24:00He llegó a İn danger,

24:10nazió a fer 연� knifters, entre Miami, también Ana desde Kern. Él novió ni fue Alexander en 2024 para Auburn. Expectaciones más abiertas pretty low, gets to Miami, and they play him in this role, and it was the Louisville game that just clicked. Like, oh wow, okay, this play speed is different. This aggressiveness, and the play style, it's a little bit different. It's creating plays. And it showed in that Louisville game, and then it just felt like it built up from there. He missed a few games later in the regular season, and it showed when he wasn't out there for that Miami defense. Then they get him back for the playoffs, and that's where it just kind of pero es un linebacker en un corner de la vida ¿qué es lo que hacemos con esto?

24:57porque si velo con él él se ha un edge en un play él se ha un edge, en el siguiente play él evo la block, close the ball make that tackle for loss su habilidad es a blitzer si es un delay o si esquema de él con un tipo de simulación de la presión cuando se va a ir es siempre hot, es siempre ir a 1 ,000 ,000 miles an hour y es crea que estos plays y así que ha esto un proceso de lo que es lo que va en frente de él, clic, boom, es gone ahora, ok, es un ataque nickel, que es genial pero lo que cuando se ha toque en reverse lo que cuando cuando te da más coverage responsabilidades lo que es que que es donde es un poco y un poco y así que creo que que se está figuring out que no no no no no no no no no no no no no no que se considera el segundo 2.

25:52Creo que es un tema de la es la verdadera de la team para que sea el estilo de player en ese momento en el draft. Porque, no creo que no es que sea para todos porque de la habilidad que se brings. Y lo que, Dane, voy a decir esto a todos los GMs que no escuchan a nuestro show con bated breath. Es tu trabajo para obtener enough talento en el segundo área de tu equipo que Keontae Scott puede funcionar como que es y es posible y es un sea ball guip ball badass ok, lo que sea no es no es trying a plug a square peg into a round hole si necesitas better coverage players around que es fine go find a team que puede drop this guy in as a Havoc creator I love it y it has to be the right team or you got to make sure the el rey geyser around him, but my God, what a fun player.

26:50Another older guy, like he's, he's going to be a 25 year old rookie. And so like, that's, that works against them too. But, and it's like, okay, well, you know, he would, cause he was a Juco guy goes to Auburn for three years. Didn't really show anything like this at Auburn, especially last year. So yeah, there, there are some questions attached here, but when you watch Miami's defense this year, he was the best player on the field, on the Louisville tape and on several other tapes. Thinking about Texas A &M I would give the edge to Mesidor I think Mesidor is the best player On the field that day I think Scott was number two He was all over the place In the A &M game In the Ohio State game The interception When you really look at The run that they had Over the second half of the year Keontae Scott How could you not love this player I'm not done talking about Miami DBs But the other guy that I really loved When I was doing my film study for this show Who I assume he's flying under the radar Because his team was not very good I really love Zaki Wheatley out of Penn State And I You want to talk about like big Rangy physical players Thinking back to what we said about Emmanuel McNeil Warren I came away with a very Similar snapshot de lo que Zaki Wheatley podría ser para ti.

28:13¿Crees que es que es que es? No, porque, también, he es una 6 '3", en términos de speed, no es McNeil Warren. Wheatley es un 4 '6", 2", 2", donde McNeil Warren es un 4 '5", 3", 3", en el 40. Con Wheatley, he es un missile. Sometimes, eso funciona contra él. Hay algunas inconstancias porque él juega así que a veces él ha sus misses y los run fit angles y el finishing es un ejercicio, es un ejercicio más consistente, pero give me a un guy que es moviendo que fast y es willing, decisivo en coverage, aunque la bola producción, la bola producción este año es un poco alarmante, he had una pass break up, una interception, pero en el Going back to his junior year film, coming into the year, Wheatley was really high in my summer rankings at safety, and he didn't really live up to that in a stat sheet.

29:16But I think on tape, you see a really solid player, even though that Penn State defense didn't always play up to it this year. But yeah, I'm with you. In terms of a key and drive defender, a guy that can be versatile in the passing game, this is a guy that I think Dan Quinn's going to love. You think about the dime and nickel flexibility, que creo que Dan Quinn realmente valiós. Creo que es algo que un coach como un esquema como un lo que le gusta Wheatley en la segunda o segundo día, porque creo que probablemente va a la segunda En el games I watched y también, hablamos de la Thienemann, Penn State played him so deep y no es un poco de la falta de la pero la falta de la producción es tied a la falta de opportunity but it did not stop him from flying toward the football, and yeah, there's definitely some reckless reps where he flies in so fast that he overruns things or maybe he misses the tackle, but he's just a heat-seeking missile, and the speed with which he got involved in everything, even as a really deep player, really stood out to me.

30:29And yeah, considering in my notes I said, you know, is he like a top 50 guy? Así que me gustaría ser una energía a la coat piscina en el 70, que es genial para mí. Y me gustaría ser feliz. Y eso me parece muy bueno. He... So, I'm finishing mi final top 100, y he's en el 70, so, yeah, I'm right there con él. Didn't even have that ahead of time. We're just simpatico, my guy. All right, lest you think I'm a homer, Dane, because I'm not. I am honest y muy fortaleza sobre mi adiós de LSU y es un phenomenal football player I spent some time with AJ Halsey again obviously I watched his entire season but I spent some time with him before we did this show really good football player I came away from watching him where I was like how well is this going to translate to the NFL porque su su cuerpo es muy interesante como 6 flat 2 10 creo que que no no como este super randy player no super fast player LSU played him deep a lot y I was like I don't think you fast enough or randy enough to be a deep safety in the NFL and I don't know that I trust your consistency to be like a full-time box guy and I just found myself wondering not to say that it can't translate like maybe maybe it can but I was just like are you more of a tweener than I want you to be at the NFL level I hear what you're saying he so he ran a 4-5-2-40 at the combine and that was the only drill or testing drill that he did in the process no jumps no shuttles didn't do anything at the pro day.

32:33So yeah, I think that there are still some questions there about just what type of athlete you are. It's not all that explosive when you watch it by like NFL standards. Right, but I will say his instincts, his ability to get a beat on the ball before it arrives, it's almost like, okay, does that make up for maybe not being as explosive as some of these other guys? Because the instincts that he showed este año en LSU. You can make an argument. Top 3 safety en este clase es simplemente hablando de instincts. El reconocimiento que se ha jugado con. Se ha decent range. Creo que los teams son los que velo y decir que creemos que este puede ser un starter.

33:20Y lo entiendo por qué algunos no tienen que hacer pero por qué otros tienen que hacer. Su nombre en la escuela fue Mr. Give Me That y creo que ha vivido a lo que he had 5 interceptions last year at Houston 3 this year at LSU got his hands on a lot of footballs I think that teams are going to be trusting the instincts on this one and the way that he's able to see the whole field break on the ball make a play but I also get some of the reservations as well I understand that The instincts are really good And you like yeah his tape is full of Him anticipating things and making Plays on the football from a position Where you didn't think he'd be able to He is a good football player I kind of similar Similar to what we said about Keontae Scott I just hope the team that drafts Him has a specific Role in mind and hopefully Some talent around him Like I think AJ Halsey would be a phenomenal Player if you can take some things off of his plate.

34:27If you're asking him to be the general of your secondary, I get a little bit nervous. That's just me. That's fair. Keeping it moving. Let's see. We're still in the sweet spot. Okay, I did want to ask you, this is your guy and again, I'll be fully transparent. I couldn't find Genesis Smith tape, Dane. I couldn't get my hands on any. So I'm counting on you to give me the snapshot of this guy. I don't want to call him my guy because there's people that like him a lot más que yo.

35:00Es difícil porque he es... You see the coverage range, you see the ability in the back end of a defense and what that can mean as more of a single high deep third type of player and what that can bring to your defense but is he physical enough? Is him as a tackler is that going to be enough for you to ¿Can he do enough in those areas to keep him on the field? And that's where I just don't know. I don't know the answer to that. And I think every team is going to look at it a little bit differently. He played, they call it the bear position at Arizona, where he's basically a free safety, plays a lot deep.

35:45He can cover a lot of ground. You see, different than Halsey, you see the explosiveness with him, with the way that he can move from a spot. He's a finesse defender. There's no way around it. He is a finesse defender. y él va a veces abandonó a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces a veces y es es no no esto es a similar way about Kalen Bullock cuando he was coming out of USC y I think Bullock has been a good player for the Texans since he is on his rookie contract and so can Genesis Smith be that type of player for an NFL team pero creo que hay un montón de red flags con el player te habla de un tiempo evaluando la carrera la carrera ¿cómo es un hombre que no se ha hecho en su final en South Carolina que es Jalen Kilgore que fue a slot corner por lo intents y purposes que es lo que South Carolina ha pedido to do.

36:49I think you can see you can see his talent. You can see like the raw athleticism. I mean, what? I think he ran a 4-4 flat at the NFL Combine. So I mean, 210 pounds. Yeah, he's a freaky athlete and South Carolina could get away with asking him to do that. But I came away I just not even a critique or a comment on the player. I came away confused where I was like, OK, I don't think this is what anybody in the NFL is going to ask him to do on a regular basis. I mean, he's out there you go watch the Texas A &M game and KC Concepcion is just like he's overmatched, but like of course he is he's a safety playing nickel so I came away from the experience a little confused and I found myself thinking, well I bet his NFL role is going to look a little bit different than what I'm watching right here I think people see the 40 speed and they think, oh okay, well He's fast, so yeah, he can cover in the slot.

37:48It's so much more than just speed when you talk about coverage ability. Functional coverage speed means a lot of being able to break, cut on a dime, change directions. And that's where Kilgore just, it's really inconsistent in terms of man-to-man, let's cover a slot receiver. y, you know, we'll blanket him. So he went into the starting lineup as a freshman, actually when Emin Worry got hurt. Kilgore kind of got pressed into action right away, and he lived up to it. I mean, he was a freshman All-American. He had made plays right away, and you look at the ball production, eight interceptions the last three years, all-SEC player, there's a lot to like about Pero creo que es un mejor deep safety donde se va a jugar un más tradicional safety role.

38:47He can give you some versatility donde se puede usarlo como un hybrid y worklo en un y do estos diferentes cosas. Pero no quiero que sea un defensor. No creo que es... No creo que es que es que funcionó. Quiero que sea un más de lo que sea y usarlo a la seguridad y la seguridad y la habilidad y la habilidad y lo tienes que decir, casi gracias a la bálvula La sabemos que eres que puede algo que kämpa que rank la pregunta la respuesta es un una -ena

39:31efe es un gran rígula tipo de pick y un equipo que chases el upside puede ser rewarded cuando veamos a lo que Kilgore ha sido en la NFL a dar un idea Jalen Kilgore played 750 snaps para South Carolina 500 de esos came en la slot he played some box y he played a handful de snaps es just not what they asked him to do y como I said el athleticismo es un muy físico cuando es actual en el action me impresiona por el athlete no impresiona por lo que fue haciendo por South Carolina si se encuentra en la situación si se encuentra en la situación y se encuentra en la situación y se encuentra en la situación y la gente está sorbiendo porque se fue haciendo un buen trabajo para su college que no es que no es que no es que no es que no es que no es que no es si un equipo had a plan for him that was a lot better than what he was doing for a lot of his snaps last year.

40:35Yes, I mean, coverage, athleticism is more about efficiency rather than who's the fastest, right? And so that's what it boils down to with Kilgore. We probably got to pick it up if we don't want this to be a two-hour episode. Can I tell you... Can I tell you about a guy that I really loved watching? Okay. Speaking of the Hurricanes, I said I would go back to them. Really love Jacoby Thomas, man. And like at the end of the day, I know myself and my shortcomings and what I like in a player. I love guys who look like they hate the other team. I love guys that just play with attitude and look angry and look like they're offended that you're trying to make a play against them.

41:22And that's Jacoby Thomas in like everything that he does. He moves everywhere Very fast And I don't think he ran At all Did he run at all in this process? I couldn't find a 40 on him He did not run at the combine At the pro day he ran a 4.57 So like he's He's not like a straight That's why we need the beast Because it's all in there You're so right Dane And ironically doing these shows would be a lot easier If I had the beast So I really can't wait for next week Pero tipo Sea que cannot ser montrer El ser sabio El ton Alejandro Quay más rápido y una FilióIR

42:09AdmiróMynd in Pokemon Y con Keonte Scott El tienes mucho a Auburn Transfers de Miami Y el kuno de l içinde Si era similar Buen jugador He was loyal Hijau de orden El後no de Panas Leyendo la empresa Mgraduateis Invenida Played pretty well for Middle Tennessee State Able to transfer up to Tennessee But then he didn't really do anything in 2024 He didn't start a game Didn't have a lot of production Transfers Miami And they're able to kind of weaponize him And I think I agree with a lot of what you said He's a passionate competitor It feels like every play He's just chomping at the bit to make a play And there are some times where that's A double-edged sword Because it will lead to over-pursuit missed tackles.

42:56I think that he will overthink route concepts at times. He's not nearly as effective when his back is turned to the ball. But this is a guy that I think if you put him in a position to make plays, he will. So he has the floor of a special teamer. And I think that if he's knocking on the door of getting on the field, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think he goes top 100, but I think early on day 3, anywhere, 4th round, 5th round, somewhere in there, I think Jacoby Thomas will come off the board. And I was going to say, thinking back to my guy AJ, maybe it's hypocritical for me to love Jacoby Thomas as much as I do and be a little bit down on AJ Halsey, but if you tell me I could get Jacoby Thomas outside the top 100 and AJ Halsey's a top 60, top 65 pick, I like the value of that a lot.

43:48Like, even if AJ Halsey's an awesome player, I like the value of finding a guy like Jacoby Thomas on day three. That would be pretty fantastic, in my opinion. Yeah, I think that makes sense. Those are the types of scenarios that teams are going through. It's okay, we could get a Bud Clark from TCU in the mid-third, or do we wait, maybe go for Kamari Ramsey from USC in the mid-fourth? Those types of things are the types of conversations that teams are having as they stack their board. Real quickly before we move on Okay, you mentioned Bud Clark He's absolutely worth a mention The interception god Had a phenomenal senior bowl back in January I wanted to ask you about Kamari Ramsey Because that's another guy USC played him a lot in the slot this past season So like a guy who I think was probably playing Out of position for his final year in college Came into the year with a ton of hype And in addition to the position switch que también ha perdido este año.

44:50Así que yo estaba curioso por tu take por qué se está donde él está en el draft board y dónde se está en él. Ahora mismo. Me gusta en el cuarto. Vale, me gusta lo que he... Lo he ha gustado mucho. He fue, no sé, top 50, somewhere en el 40s para mí. No, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They kind of rotated in between nickel and safety. And I think that most times it's the linebackers that are wearing the green dot. Not for USC. They had Ramsey wearing the green dot because that communication always flowed through him.

45:32And not really a surprise when you see the impact he makes on the field. I mean, the fluidity, the speed. He can survive in man-to-man. But I like him better in zone where he's not asked to man up. He's asked to sort through the traffic and just kind of be a couple steps ahead because he does see things and the way things play out. And I remember talking to him about how much he liked playing chess, and I was like, oh, boom, that makes total sense because that's kind of how he plays. He likes to be a couple steps ahead, and that's something that I think will translate well to the next level. I'm looking at your board.

46:10You have 24 safeties with some sort of grade. Before we move on to corner Is there anybody else you feel like We need to hit Let's see We hit most of them Michael Taff would be a solid day three Safety out of Texas Dalton Johnson from Arizona He ran on the 4-4-1s Which is good to see I really like DeMond Moses From SMU Unfortunately he had the He had the injury that was flagged at the combine. So I don't know that he's going to get drafted. But I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't heard the last from Moses because he was a good player on tape. It's a lot of guys. Like I said, I love the value, particularly in the first half of the safety board.

47:01I think there's just going to be a lot of good safeties drafted. Obviously, a few on Thursday, but particularly on Friday, just feels like it's going to be fun for this position. I would love to go more in-depth, but we got to do cornerback too, and we're going to do that on the other side of this break.

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49:27I absolutely love it when a plan comes together As it did just now Because we bumped cornerback to the second half of the show So that Jermod McCoy could go through his pro day workout And while we've been talking, Dane Adam Schefter and a whole heap of other people at Tennessee's pro day Say Jermod McCoy Coming off of his ACL tear in January of 2025 ran a 4.3840 con un 38-inch vertical y un 10.7 broad. Ahora, Pro Day 40s, no entiendo completamente pero incluso si Jermod McCoy es más difícil de la 4.38 es muy bien para hacer que te sentir bien bien para donde las cosas están. Es similar a Mansoor Delane.

50:15¿Y qué es? ¿Can you get below a 4.45? y he did that I agree I'll talk to some teams later today and get quote unquote official times or the times that the teams are using but I'm sure it'll be close to that low 4-4s, high 4-3s and that's like I don't let me ask you this what did you expect in a run based off of the 2024 tape did you have any expectations of hey he's really fast or he's ¿Es tan코ntina? ¿Es decir, qué creescionte wurde de su Lives Nyong 'a entrada ?olesome defense. Así que, muy profundo, four, three, y... Pero si leAM permitiaron al estado submetiendo lo quehodi he dieron para cuando debería era de una forma fiesta apáwaliaria van las correspondence con una vez cercanais rápida-cinco.

51:07No, I think I would agree. I mean, I think the first line in my report is gifted athlete for a size and closes separation quickly. Like, he's just, he is a, he's an above the line athlete for the cornerback position. So I don't think we expected any slow times out of him, but it's good to see on paper exactly what it is. Now, I think even more importantly than the 40 is I want to talk to scouts and see how going through cornerback drills, how did he look? porque es muy muy divertido cuando te hablas de scouts sobre pro days porque te vas a ver un número postado y te vas a ver check that box, looks good pero te vas a hablar de scout y te vas a decir que le ha sucked durante el cornerback drills he looked terrible y me ha ido a la guarda por eso pero eso pasa y así, me alegro de escuchar de scouts sobre cómo el corner drills looked, moviendo en reverse change de direction Just being able to be an athlete And hopefully no restrictions From the knee injury Which again, that was 14 months ago at this point So hopefully no restrictions In that respect Because just going on the 2024 tape This is a top 15 player in the draft You can make an argument Top 10 player in the draft So it's just Obviously when you're dealing with a knee injury Things get a little bit clouded Y actualmente tras un pero goggles a vis entrar a un poco de idea de dónde su draft status le va a decidir.

52:38methación, así que le va a seguir tirando yo. No se va a decir que ya sige que nunca dijimos. Serás salvoAC que culturez tu mente. demostrar un video sobre todo el momento. Si podemos imaginar por la purposes de que siga estén en писión. que es un buen bill de salud y Jermod McCoy se ve bien y todos se sienten bien bien sobre el que es ¿Es esto real? ¿Es una conversación real ahora para CB1 y primer cornerbacko de la board? ¿Es esto bastante substando de la gap entre él y Mansoor Delane? ¿Es que Mansoor Delane, aunque no es no quite as physically gifted of a player he's just so clean do you think the cleanness of Mansoor Delane gives him an edge or do you think this is a very real conversation I would think so that McCoy has the edge in size but not by a ton he's an inch taller, inch longer in terms of arm length so give McCoy the edge there is that enough to go con un jugador que no hay que tener un jugador de la vida de este año, que no tiene un jugador de la vida, ha sido jugador de la vida sin el jugador.

54:00No creo que. Creo que Mansoor Delane es el favorito de la jugador de la jugador de la jugador de la jugador de la jugador de la jugador para la jugador de la jugador de la jugador. Conecta de la jugador, es difícil de poner en la jugador. Ahora, si fue 5 '9.5", 5 '10", o algo donde se puede que realmente hay que compromisar o si se ran a 4-4-9 pero con Delane, hay fewer formas que se puede nitpick con McCoy, hay que tener la caja de la caja de la caja que hay un poco de la pregunta que creo que para most teams, Delane va a ser el 1 pero creo que es fair que después de hablar de Delane, McCoy es ahí en la conversación ¿cudió que es como 9 de la Chiefs?

54:44¿cudió que el Ravens se está en la top 15? de los otros equipos en la top 20. La Cowboys podría ser un interesante spot. Creo que as longas no hay más preguntas sobre el knee y el pro de que los dos thumbs up de scouts, he va a ir a ir somewhere top 15, top 17. Así que como yo dije

55:08Caleb Downs podría fallar past 12. I wouldn't be surprised si eso happened en un mundo donde Downs y Mansoor Delane were both available at pick number 12 like I do like I think I could see Dallas like opting for the cornerback and so I think that's a similar teams right I mean yeah for sure yeah look look at the corner more so than the safety I feel like 12 is Mansoor Delaney's absolute floor as a prospect like if he's not already gone by 12 he will be gone by then and then McCoy assuming a good bill of health I don't know you can't I can't imagine him lasting It's a little bit too far past pick.

55:50Not out of the teens, put it that way. Yeah. No, I think I agree. I mentioned the Chiefs. It'd just be a fun story because he grew up in White House, Texas.

56:03McCoy had Mahomes' aunt as a third-grade teacher. He was coached by Mahomes' dad. So there's a lot of connections there with Mahomes' family. So it'd be a fun story to talk about. pero dije que es ser genauso para hablar de McCoy en esa línea, esa 9-17 línea, como posibles de landing spots para él. Let's not talk about cómo este año los rookies watched Patrick Mahomes as kids porque me hace sentir terrible. Let's do talk about another bit of topical news for the cornerback discussion. A guy que es widely considered, at least on the short list, I would call him cornerback 3. Maybe you would disagree, but either way, Avion Terrell in the news this week because he tried to run at a private workout.

56:53And the report coming out of that workout is that he sustained a hamstring injury on his first run of the day. And so it sounds like we've got an inconclusive on Avion Terrell's 40-yard dash. And hopefully that's not an injury that's going to linger for him too long. Yeah, that's a bummer. I think it's a bummer for him I think who it's not a bummer for Some of those teams, like playoff teams Picking the 20s that are kind of Oh, okay, Avion Terrell I think we might have a legit shot To get this player here Because he's just such a good player I think that not having a 40 Will hurt him a little bit Corner is just a stopwatch position Like it or not It does matter And so not having that will Hurt him a little bit He's not a big guy 5 '10 and 3 quarters So he's under 5 '11 Not super long But you watch his film And he's everywhere I mentioned this before with him He has a honey badger aura to him That's just the way he plays I thought you were going to Diplomatically call me an idiot If I said that That's what he made me think of He makes me think of Tyron Matthew I love this guy Dane and I don't give a shit if he doesn't Have a 40 honestly yeah like if it Helps a good team get him Good for him like go go to Seattle And prosper young man I like eight force fumbles the last Two years like I love the guy Dude like he does not Give a shit that he is a smaller player He's gonna mix it up with anybody That wants the smoke and He's a good player and like I Don't I didn't see anything That made me think his speed su projectile que no cruzó en el su ACTUcha si no es el si es bastante rápido el tal a mí y complete no necesedi hasta Hag � que savior

59:05no el pressman reps y no es que no se ha blown off el ballo por speed he can play off y y se el read y drive reactions y el modo que se ha flogado con el ball la physicalidad jumps out para un jugador contra el jugador contra el jugador contra el jugador y el jugador ahora, hay veces si se juega en el exterior contra el jugador en el jugador el jugador el jugador el jugador es un jugador es que es difícil para el que afecta a la caja pero no es que no es nada que no y no es que no es que no es que no y es que no es que no es que no cada uno de cada uno de cada uno de cada uno y Clemson no es una particularidad fun team de ver este año para un programa que tiene so many prospects en este draft fue un choro para ver Clemson pero no es un choro para ver Terrell es que es divertido porque él competes cada uno de cada uno y es el tipo de cara que te quede tu equipo wrong.

1:00:04He's a fun player and if he was like an inch taller or an inch and a half taller I think he'd have way more fans and he does have a lot of fans like he's considered a first round prospect but I feel like he's sort of he's a little more under the radar than I think he deserves but speaking of which there's another guy that's even more under the radar like if we're talking about the top of the cornerback class I really feel like Colton Hood out of Tennessee is just a completely forgotten man. People consider him a first-round prospect, but he doesn't seem to get nearly the amount of publicity and I was wondering if you could help me figure out why that is.

1:00:43Well, he went to the Senior Bowl and it was okay. It wasn't great. He only practiced two days and then he got hurt and kind of bowed out. But yeah, this is a good player for sure. And another transfer, he was at Auburn, then Colorado, and then came into Tennessee. So him and McCoy, Jamal McCoy, actually never played together. but he kind of stepped up into that cornerback one role for the volunteers and played well played at a high level you know he was like nine passes defended he shows up in the run game he's a really scrappy player I think that if you want a guy that can do press man you know he can play he has I think he showed promise as an off coverage defender with his eyes and his reliable tackling skills so So, yeah, he is right there in that first round mix as well.

1:01:35I think it's, if we're going to say Mansour Delaney and Jermon McCoy, the first two corners drafted, then I think there's a little bit of a discussion about, okay, teams will be a little bit split on who's that next corner off the board. Is it going to be Colton Hood? Will it be Terrell? I think Chris Johnson, my guy from San Diego State, is in that mix. But, yeah, he's right there in the late first round. How do you have Hood and Chris Johnson stacked, you personally? Their tags are touching. I mean, I'm a big Chris Johnson fan. I just think he's another clean player. But Colton Hood's a good player as well.

1:02:09So they are neck and neck for me. The line I got on Chris Johnson out of San Diego State is that he has the smoothest hips that you've ever seen. Like the fluidity he plays with is striking. And the big question for him was going to be speed. because that's what talking to um because i was all in on this guy like in september when i was checking around with scouts and the big question that scouts would bring up was be okay but the the school says he's gonna run a 455 or like he just i'm not sure about the speed and i don't that's not when you watch his film i the lack of speed did not jump out to me like usually if a guy's slow if a corner slow you can tell pretty quickly um but you know playing mountain west competition like maybe okay does that hide it a little bit he goes to the combine and rips off a 440 in the 40-yard dash and it's like okay can we can we put that to bed a little bit with these speed concerns um but yeah chris johnson is he and i i've talked to him multiple times and every time i've just been more impressed more and more impressed with the person that he is just an awesome guy very smart very cerebral um and just the way that he processes things so physically all right check that box he's over six foot he runs in the low four fours and then you talk to the guy and you're even more impressed with the person it's like okay i am running out of reasons why this guy shouldn't be a first round pick going back to hood really quickly he's he's 21 if i'm not mistaken again i can't consult the beast yet i know he went to the senior bowl but i made a note of that where based on what I saw, like the, the long speed, the ability and coverage, even if he's not a, a well-rounded player yet, I was just like, all right, I'm, I'm in on this skillset.

1:04:00If this guy is only 21 years old, like there's, I feel like there's a lot of room to grow there that made him, I w I was more intrigued when I realized that he's, he's still a fairly young guy yeah yeah young player who's continuing to get better I mean Delane he's the only well I guess Chris Johnson is senior too but there's a lot of underclassmen um in the the top 50 Terrell McCoy um Hood Pond D 'Angelo Ponds is an underclassman Brandon Cisse from South Carolina is an underclassman um but yeah I mean Colton Hood there's there's reasons why he's popping up in first round mocks. Talk about a guy.

1:04:41We can talk about him briefly because he's near and dear to our hearts and he's come up often. But the sixth corner on your board with a firm second round grade is our guy D 'Angelo Pons, which I think is completely fair. But let's talk about the 5 '9", 182 corner prospect who is apparently a firm second round grade. I mean, you don't see that every day. And 5 '9 is a little generous because he was like 5 '8 and 5 '8. Yes. You can have it. No, you can have it. So just, you know, it's worth pointing out. But, yeah, and he's under 30-inch arms in terms of length. But just throw on the tape, and it's like, I don't, I don't.

1:05:28It's a similar thing with Mikey Sainer still when he was coming out of Michigan. Like, the way that he can impact the game. Like, I understand why you're not taking him in the first round. I get it. But to not take him in a second round, like, what are we doing? Do we not like good players? D 'Angelo Pons on film tells you everything. He's a good player. And it doesn't matter. You know, yeah, there were some missteps against Jeremiah Smith. That's going to happen. Jeremiah Smith would work some NFL corners right now. D 'Angelo Pons, week in, week out, what he did against Oregon, you know, whatever tape you want to throw on, he is making plays.

1:06:01And so I'm just, I'm a big believer it's going to translate. And he did it the moment he showed up at James Madison. He's a freshman All-American. Then he transfers to Indiana, and it shows up there. And it's just – so I get it. He's undersized. That might be a deal breaker for some. The confident swagger he plays with, the cover talent, the instincts, the competitive toughness, it's in his DNA. It's who he is. It's how he plays. And so an inside-out NFL starter, that's what I see with this guy. Can I skip down the board a little bit to cover some similar ground? because everything you're saying, and I know he's a bigger player.

1:06:38Like, to be fair to my guy Chandler Rivers, he's a full 5 '9 1⁄2". But again, this is an undersized cornerback. I think you have him 12th on your corner board with, I believe, like a 3-4 type of grade. I think he'll go late 3. I think he'll get in there. Top 100. I know. We talked about him at the Senior Bowl. That's when he popped up on my radar. But like, I love this guy, Dane. Again, going going back to what I said about Jacoby Thomas, like Chandler Rivers hates you. He hates you for having the audacity to line up against him. And like everything he does just has this infectious energy. Like, you know, watching DBs is a little tedious, man, because like they're not getting they're not getting targeted every down.

1:07:30They're not always in the mix. Like you could watch 10 snaps of a DB and not see anything interesting happen, at least in terms of like being near the football. Chandler rivers is like smelling salts. Like it is, it like, it'll wake you up. You're like, Oh shit. All right. We're doing some stuff. Like he's, he's just, he's such a sudden athlete. He's flying all over the place. He's rotating around the back end, like chain, changing coverage calls, dropping back to play safety if he needs to. And he hits like a missile and runs like a son of a bitch. And I just, I want that guy on my team. If you can't tell.

1:08:13Yeah, no, I, now I know how to get you pumped up and just throw on some Chandler rivers tape and we're off to the races. What a bad-ass man. He's fun, man. Yeah. I'm glad you brought him up. Piggybacking off of the D 'Angelo Ponds conversation, because again, An undersized guy who, look, he's always been undersized. It's not like he woke up one day and he was smaller than everybody. He has always had to work a little bit harder and be a little bit tougher. And so, like, that's just, it's ingrained in him. And you see it play out, you know, week out, week in, week out on the film with the way he played at Duke.

1:08:48And I'm with you. He's just, he's a very spirited player. He's undersized, but you see the foot quickness. You see fluidity. the lack of size will limit the landing spots that's just the facts but I think the team that bets on him you're betting on a guy that's just he's a gnat at a barbecue he's just annoying the way that he will swarm receivers it will it's like he turns you off when you look at the size and then you watch the film and you're drawn right back in because of the way that he reads the quarterback the way he competes he's got a long NFL career awaiting him. I would say if there's an Upton Stout in this class, it could be him.

1:09:32That mid-to-late third-round pick who maybe a lot of teams overlook, but, okay, 49ers are going to take you there. Okay, Upton Stout had a good rookie season. I think Chandler Rivers could be that guy in this class. Upton Stout is exactly who I thought about watching him. And, look, Upton Stout, he didn't always know where he was during his rookie season. but he was damn it if he wasn't going to try. And it was good more often than it was bad. And, yeah, if that's Chandler Rivers, then that's awesome. I'm glad you brought him up. Do yourself a favor if you're listening. Go find some highlights or some tape if you can get your hands on it.

1:10:15I mean, you don't need an afternoon coffee. Just watch Chandler Rivers to wake yourself up. All right. Awesome. I digress. So two undersized corners that we love very much and are going to hear their names called in the top 100, I would guess. Where do you – okay, there's a couple places we could take it from here. Like, I mean, you mentioned Brandon Cisse. Can you give me a clearer picture of Brandon Cisse, who you have a firm two, a firm second-round grade on? Yeah. He was in my mid-season top 100 or top 50, like at, I don't know, 25 or something like that, which I know is the first time a lot of people saw his name and being talked about as a first-round player.

1:10:58And I kind of cooled off of that sense. He was always kind of billed as this freak athlete. And, I mean, to a certain extent, he was. He did not run the 40 at the combine, but at pro day, he ran a 4-4-1. He had a 41-inch vert at the combine. So, I mean, he's got the athleticism. He's a decent-sized guy. He's almost 6 foot. He's 5 '11", 3 quarters. But I think that there's still parts of his game that he's more athlete than pure cover corner at this point in terms of anticipating, in terms of being in position to regain phase. The ball skills need to be a little bit better. left some production on the field, needs to be a little more controlled with the way he uses his hands, where it's just not going to be easy for officials to call flags.

1:11:50There's a lot of playing the position where he's not quite there yet. Not counting him out, and obviously have a second-round grade on him, but I think he's a little more athlete than polished cover man right now, which isn't a bad thing by any means. There's going to be a team in the top 50 most likely more than willing to make a bet on a guy like that. But it's just not as clean of an evaluation as others. Do you think it's fair if that kind of explains how I felt about Malik Muhammad out of Texas? Yeah, sure. The only caveat there is I don't think we expected Malik Muhammad to test the way he did.

1:12:29Cissé, we expected. Like, he was the athlete. Watching Malik Muhammad, I did not... I thought he might run in the, like, 4.55. um i did not expect to see the wait 442 at the combine um and then even at the at his pro day it was a 695 three cone so i mean he just tested off the charts and then i and then i went back and watched the film because it's like okay i didn't expect that i went back and watched the film and i still don't see a 442 or the 695 like i just don't see it consistently show up on film it doesn't mean he's a good player um but i don't i didn't see the testing necessarily translate to the on-field stuff.

1:13:09You know what's funny? Texas and South Carolina, we're talking about Brandon Cissé and Malik Muhammad. They both played Texas A &M and that is, those are games that I watched to study these guys and I definitely found myself thinking, how much of this is me not being impressed by you and how much of this is Casey Concepcion being a bad, bad man? Because he has that effect on people, unfortunately, for them. He does. On both of them, yeah. Yeah, that's funny you brought that up because, yeah, he wasn't matched up all game on those guys. But when he was, you felt Concepcion's speed. Unfortunately, we don't have a 40 time on Concepcion during the process, but you can get a good gauge for how fast he is based off of going up against some of these corners that he faced in the SEC.

1:14:00Concepcion, like, I felt like he had Muhammad in particular in a blender on several occasions where I was like, well, this doesn't look very good, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's happening against a potential top 25, top 20 sort of receiver. And like I said, I think he did that to quite a few people. And again, I think Muhammad is a he's a true junior, right? Yes. Yeah, he turns 22 in September. The athleticism is impressive. And I think with both of these guys, like it's similar to what I said about Colton Hood, where I'm like, there's there's enough to like here where if I'm drafting you with the idea that you still have some developing to do, like I can get on board with that.

1:14:45It's just not in the cleanest place at this exact moment in time. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, Muhammad, I'll give him credit, too, because he actually I thought he impressed me at senior bowl as well. so it's not just the testing I thought he did himself some favors with the way he played down there in Mobile so he's crushed the process which isn't be all end all obviously the tape is still what matters the most so yeah, Muhammad's one of those guys that I think teams are a little bit split on but the profile like the tag, when the tag's on the board that tag's going to get drafted on day two, no doubt One of the stickiest guys I watched among your like day two ish grades.

1:15:30And this guy's this guy's got a fringe grade. So potentially day three. But I thought people had a really, really hard time getting away from Dalen Everett out of the University of Georgia. Interesting. You disagree? No, I don't disagree. I struggled with him. I really did. But I just wanted him to make more plays. I like the player. It's just the playmaking. He was a tough guy to watch, and I think part of it's the defense. That Georgia defense is just not the most entertaining in terms of guys making plays on a consistent basis. But with Everett, he's a good-looking athlete. I think there's a lot of things you point to and say, okay size that'll that'll play 6 '1 just over 6 '1 he ran in the 4 '4s um he was another guy that um at the pro day he didn't do anything but the the combine yeah he was a 4 '3 8 37 half inch vert 10 4 broad so as an athlete okay yeah that that checks the box um i just i don't the time speed i don't think always showed up on tape but i think he's fast enough like i don't i'm not i don't think slow.

1:16:50Sometimes I felt like, especially when he's playing off coverage, that trigger is a little too conservative, a little too, like, I want you to go drive, make a play, but he still found ways to be in position to limit what could have been. I didn't love him. I don't love him as much as other people do, but I still recognize the talent and the traits that are, okay, this should work at the next level. It's at least going to give you a chance to be on the field and so he's one of those guys right on the cusp for me is it late one early or late uh three early four somewhere right around that fringe top 100 okay it's funny because i feel like we agree more than you might think because all i what i said was he's a hard guy to get away from like i like i like his speed and i think he like he he's a long strider he's hard to get separation on and even when he gives up separation he's good at gaining it back.

1:17:46I think you're dead on. He's not as he's not as like assertive for lack of a better word as I wanted him to be like I like I think there are reps where he gets boxed out at the catch point or he just doesn't attack the ball as well as you would prefer. And definitely not to say he's a perfectly clean prospect, but I did come away pretty impressed with his athleticism and his ability down the field and you said it yourself it's a stopwatch position I think that makes you worth a draft pick and hopefully the coaching staff that is bringing you onto their roster can help you get there with the with the nuances of it because he I think he has the stuff that you can't coach yeah I think that's fair like in terms of like baseline which you're looking for and a potential starter at corner he checks those boxes now can he be more than that can he elevate his game to be more than just an adequate starter in the NFL.

1:18:47That's where I'm not, I don't feel great about that, but I think you're right. Baseline, he'd come in, compete for a starting job, and you might try to replace him in a year or two, but at the same time, there might be more in there where he could elevate himself as well. Do you think it's fair to say, and again, I have your board in front of me, I see 34 Four cornerbacks with some sort of draftable grade. But how do you think this thing shakes out? Like if you are an NFL fan listening to this and you have a cornerback need, where do you feel like this draft starts to dip in value? Or where do you think is the cutoff for where you're trying to get a cornerback if you need one?

1:19:33yeah i don't i don't love the day three depth at cornerback position this year i mean i think once we get there's some really intriguing big tall long corners especially we're gonna talk about them we'll talk about them in a minute but i just wanted to get your sense of of sort of yeah like the depth and where that cutoff lies right so like fourth round we'll see some of these guys go but then like fifth sixth seventh round i just i don't love the the depth that this corner class has to offer. We touched on a lot of corners so far, and I think a lot of players will still be playing in the league six, seven years from now.

1:20:08But then once we get to some of these guys in the fourth round, OK, they'll have a good chance. But then I think it really drops off. So if you're looking for a corner in this draft, I think you need to get them in the first four rounds. Let's talk about those those big, tall guys who wanted to highlight in the middle of your board, just a trio of redwood trees. And I think that is an apropos analogy since two of them played at the University of Washington out on the Pacific coast to Cario Davis and Ephesians price sock. And we're not exaggerating Davis six, four one 94 with 33 and three eighth inch arms.

1:20:49Ephesians price sock, six, three one 96, 33 and one eighth inch arms. and they both ran just silly times at the combine, which I think they were on people's radars anyway. But when you do that at the size they're at, it's bound to crank the hype up a notch or two. Yeah, and I want them to be better football players, put it that way. There's a lot to like about Takario Davis. It's hard to teach that size at that position, hard to teach that speed, that combination. I think that when you're talking about him as a player though there are too many almost interceptions where it's like if he would have found the football that would have been a pick six or if he would have got his eyes turned around if he would have anticipated the route if maybe the mirror and match was a little bit better and those false steps weren't there he's making a play instead of creating an underneath window for the offense And so then that's why we're talking about him, at least for me, as a fourth rounder compared to now, maybe someone will jump at those measurables in the on day two.

1:22:00It's certainly possible. You don't see these measurables very often. Size, speed traits are crazy. But I think in terms of playing the position, I just I have a lot of concerns there about whether or not he's able to if he can make it at the next level. But I don't know. We'll see. And I would even throw Julian Neal from Arkansas in there as well. Now, he doesn't have the same type of speed. He's more of a 4 '5 guy. But another guy that's size, physicality, there's a lot to like there. So I was going to bring up Neal. But Davis and Prysock make me laugh a little bit because it just shows, like, the evolution of watching football where like I started covering the NFL when everybody was after the next Brandon Browner and Richard Sherman.

1:22:54Like those guys were doing their thing and setting the tone for the best defense in the league. And it's so enticing when you see a skill set like that. And obviously like guys like that can become these amazing players. I mean, Richard Sherman is going to be a Hall of Famer. but like over the years I think I've just gotten burned out on chasing that archetype and I've I've been disappointed with it more times than I haven't been and that's like watching the Washington guys I was like yeah this is really cool but I think I care about your change of direction a little bit more than I care about your long speed and your length like your ability to move quickly and stop and start in space is probably going to come up a hell of a lot more often than the fact that you can tie your shoes standing up and i mean that like they're they're not bad football players but no no i just but i i felt like i was watching two aircraft carriers try to like get up to speed where i was like yeah you can get moving on a long enough stretch but But what about our short area stuff here?

1:24:04And I actually, I came away liking Julian Neal a little bit more because my exact note was, and he's a little bit shorter. He's not quite as big and he's not quite as fast either. But my note was that he just moves more like a normal person. Like he doesn't look like he needs two miles to get up the runway. He's got some stop start and some short area to his game. And I came away feeling a little bit more comfortable with him as a prospect as a result. Yeah, I still don't like I wouldn't classify him as sudden or like, you know, he's not not compared to guys who are really good at that. But if you're talking about big rangy corners, I think he's he's better than than some.

1:24:50Yeah, no. And I think that's fair. I mean, all these guys, they're they're playing to their strengths, which is going to be the size like like Takario Davis. Who are the two top tackles in this draft? Maui Noah and Fano, right? Takerio Davis has a larger wingspan than both of them. It's just rare stuff to have guys with that type of size run four threes. But I do agree with you, Neal. I feel better about his cover talent. I feel better about the way that he will attack the football from different angles. With Neal, he was a Fresno State guy, transferred to Arkansas this past year. and Arkansas's defense was terrible.

1:25:30But Neal is one of the few bright spots where you come away watching that defense saying, this defense is terrible, but I don't know. This number 23 can make some plays. And so I like the way he tracks the football. I think it was the Memphis tape. If you go back and watch the Memphis tape, you really see Julian Neal track the ball, make some plays. He does have some sync to him. It's not like he's just a big, stiff athlete. I think there is some hip fluidity there. There is some sink there. He plays confident, which you can tell that he puts in the time, understanding the routes and the different combinations that the offense likes to play because I thought he was really confident with the way that he was attacking.

1:26:14You saw lateral agility with him. So with Neal, I do think that you're right. You see a little more of the coverage ability, but you sacrifice a little bit of speed because, again, He's more of a 4-5 guy than a 4-3 guy like the other ones. I will say this on Priceock's behalf. I watched the Ohio State game, and going back to what we said about KC Concepcion, there's a lot of these guys we've talked about where I'm like, are you actually a bad player or are you playing Jeremiah Smith? Because, like, that's not really fair. It's not fair to anybody. That'll be a common theme here, yeah. But I do think so to Cario Davis was out.

1:26:56And that's another thing with Davis. He missed a lot of the season with rib and hamstring injuries. So that's worth keeping in mind. But so Priceock played Ohio State without the benefit of having Davis. And considering you're going up against Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith, I thought he held his own. Like I thought he looked mostly good in a game with that type of receiver talent out there. And like Jeremiah Smith scored in that game, but it was not on price. And Carnell Tate had a very pedestrian day as a receiver. So I and especially like if you're asking him to defend the sideline and do big, long corner stuff.

1:27:36I thought he was I thought he was good at it. Again, it's just I don't know how how enamored am I by that in 2026? Like when when when when winning in short areas and with suddenness, it feels so important these days. And that's why we're talking about day three at this point. But there will be some teams that maybe value that a little bit more than others. I am calling it a win that we're just now coming up on an hour and a half. Before we get out of here, is there anybody else that you just feel like we really need to hit or that I forgot to mention? Keith Abney from Arizona State is a guy I really like on day two.

1:28:21he didn't do anything at the combine but he crushed pro day he was 445 in the 40 6913 cone trading stooks from arizona is a guy that we definitely need to mention just as a he's an older guy like he's going to be a 25 year old rookie but um him as a nickel is a really like plug and play nickel drop him in he was a 433 guy in the 40 and that shows up on film his ability to find the football, go make a play. He'll overlap coverage. He's like, obviously, you want the 21 year old, but him being older, I think, you know, he's a former walk on. He's got a great story. But I think you really value the experience that a guy like Trayden Stooks brings to the field and going to bring to your NFL corner room or DB room, because I think it does show on film with his ability to go make plays.

1:29:13So definitely mention Stooks. I think on day three, Jaden Kennedy, the Oregon corner, more of a nickel. I think he's going to be one of those rounds four, round five, somewhere for a team looking for more of an inside nickel option. Makes sense. And then last guy I'd mention would be Charles Demings, one of the top non-FBS guys this year, Stephen F. Austin. And, yeah, he's one of the more entertaining guys to talk to throughout the process because he's just got a really fun story, the way he came out and kind of bet on himself every step of the way. Another guy that could have transferred up, decided to stay put.

1:29:52You know, he impressed at the combine. He was a 4-4-1 guy in the 40, but has some pretty good tape as well. Not just one, but also two Toledo corners also coming out in this draft, Avery Smith and Andre Fuller. So both will be drafted. So I think we'll have three Toledo DBs drafted this year. Don't be shocked when most of Toledo's secondary joins the NFL at the end of April. That's that's a great spot to leave it. Stephen, Stephen F. Austin and Toledo. That's what you would expect from the beast, which will be out the next time we talk to y 'all. It will finally be here. Dane Dane's too professional to celebrate, but I'm excited for him.

1:30:33And I can't wait to go through the beast next week. We'll have a great episode planned for y 'all as we can finally get our hands on the best draft guide in the industry. Until then, we appreciate y 'all so much. We will talk to you next time. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP. because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off and Grainger is your trusted partner.

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