Buy or sell their offseason: The Rebuilders

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1:04You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Way fair, every style, every home. Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Last year, we did a series of shows, four different shows, with all 32 teams broken up into four different buckets, and we decided if we wanted to buy or sell every single offseason in the NFL.

1:44I loved doing those, and we're doing them again. So four different shows, all 32 teams, eight teams in each show. Today, we are starting with the rebuilding teams. So the teams at the bottom, most of these buckets are going to be broken up by Super Bowl odds. So these are the teams at the bottom of those odds. If you have issues with how we've distributed the teams, take it up with the people in Las Vegas or whoever your local sports book is. But we're going to dig into this exercise the exact same way we did last year. Really enjoy just kind of taking a step back and taking all of these off seasons in totality.

2:16Doing it with Dave Hellman today. Let's dig into the rebuilding teams and buying or selling their off seasons right now.

2:33I'm very excited to start this series of shows again. I loved doing this last offseason around this same time. Just a good way to kind of try to get your arms around what teams have done in combination coaching hires, free agency, and the draft. So we're talking offseasons in totality today, Dave. and we're doing the rebuilding teams as our first one of these four buckets. Call me a hipster, call me a hopeless romantic, but I am even more excited to do the rebuilding teams, like the quote-unquote bad teams. It's more interesting to me. Like, we have all offseason and all season to argue about who's going to win the Super Bowl, but this is the time of the year where the teams at the back of the pack are just as interesting and exciting to me as the, you know, contenders.

3:19I said this on the last show. These are bucketed almost entirely by Super Bowl odds. There will be a couple we fudge on a little bit later. I'll see if you guys can spot them as we bucket the teams. We'll do those for a reason, but almost exclusively, these four collections of teams over these four shows, eight teams per show, are going to be done just based on Super Bowl odds. And I think naturally, as you look at each subsection of teams, it does make sense. I think this group is correct for this rebuilding teams, quote unquote. I don't think we have an issue here, but there's definitely going to be three or four teams over the course of the series where we probably get some feedback about why they're where they are.

3:56And we'll say, it's the odds. Leave us alone, please. But it won't always be. All right. Let's dig into these eight teams. These are in no particular order. So they may be in a different order in your notes, but this is just kind of how we had them grouped. Let's start with the New York Jets. Okay. The New York Jets off season, kind of as a quick overview, hired Frank, fired most of their offensive most of their coaching staff brought in frank reich is the offensive coordinator brian duker is the defensive coordinator traded jermaine johnson traded for gino breece hall back on the tag joseph osai david onyamada demario davis kingsley enigbari and free agency in the draft david bailey kenyan sadiq omar cooper jr d 'angelo pons were the big moves for the new york jets in the first couple rounds are you buying or selling the new york jets offseason i'm buying it and i'll try to explain why with a question for you.

4:47What would the jets have to do to offset the excitement that you feel about the war chest that they've accumulated for 2027? Because I equate it to a team, not a team. I equate it to a person who is in the very back of the pack at Mario Kart, but they have the lightning bolt and you're just like, oh my God, they're terrible, but they have the lightning bolt. Who knows what hell is going to break loose once they use that? That's how I feel about having three first round draft picks in 2027. My only problem with that analogy is, you know, the tangible effect of the lightning bolt. You do not know the tangible impact of the three first round picks the New York Jets have.

5:24But until they get made, then they can be as good as I want them to be. And that's exciting. This was one of the harder ones to answer. I landed on this hedging. I'm buying the roster construction. I can get behind the players that the Jets have added this offseason and the positions that they've added them at. I even like something like the Jermaine Johnson trade for Devondre Sweat. Like, I think Devondre Sweat right now, if I were trying to pin down who is a better asset, him or Jermaine Johnson, I think I'd rather have Devondre Sweat. You have more cost-controlled years. I think Jermaine Johnson's injury history is absolutely something that's worth bringing up.

6:01I think the Titans make that trade in part because Robert Salas coming in, he wants his guys at those positions. to monitor sweat as a product of a different regime. I think that's a good way to find value. I think the Jets did a good job of doing that. The Geno trade, I think, is the right sort of like potentially stabilizing move for free. DeMario Davis is like a, we need an adult on defense to kind of reset this thing. Somebody that can be at the center of who we want to be on that side of the ball. I completely understand. I liked Kingsley and Agbare as a role player type of signing for a lot of different teams in this free agent class.

6:33And then you look at what happened in the draft. we can talk about the Kenyan Sadiq Omar Cooper Jr. thing. I think I've arrived in a place where even if this offensive staff isn't the right one to get the most out of this collection of guys, I like adding those two players because I think Omar Cooper Jr. has a little bit more inside outside than he showed at Indiana in 2025 specifically. And so I like how the Jets have attacked this offseason from a player acquisition standpoint, and they have three first round picks next year. I'm buying all that. I'm selling the coaching staff as hard as I could possibly sell it.

7:07How much does that scare you? Because I think that's the exact right way to look at it. And if I'm not buying in on the Jets, which I agree with everything you just said, and even if you don't think Kenyon Sadiq should have been the pick at 16, getting Cooper at 30, and just sort of having those two things in totality, I'm fine with that. Even if you like Casey Concepcion better than Omar Cooper Jr., getting both of those players. The way they put this roster together doesn't bother me at all. But what does the future hold for the coaching staff and how much does that change your plans moving forward is the thing that gives me the biggest pause with the Jets.

7:44And if it does, let's say if it goes incredibly poorly in year two of Aaron Glenn, how quickly are you ripping that Band-Aid off? Should you have done it ahead of time? How much does that change the decisions that you've already made? Like, are you bringing in guys that are like, I wish I had Arvel Reese and not a 5 '8 cornerback as a top 50 pick, but that cat's already out of the bag. Or does Aaron Glenn, let's paint this optimistically. Does Aaron Glenn do a good enough job that he stays on for a year three where he is now part of the process to go get a quarterback? and how good do you feel about that prospect?

8:27And that's what worries me about where the Jets are more so than their roster, which for the most part I like. It's just I have a hard time envisioning a scenario where they're good enough for him to be back next year. I kind of think this is like a lame duck year. And I think the guys they hired even point to that a little bit. Like what Frank Reich has been as a play call or his last two stops, it's been really bad. Like there's just no way around that. Like I loved those Frank Reich Colts teams to a point that it was a meme on the show. Like how much we talked about those teams in like 2019 and 2020.

9:03And when Andrew Luck, you know, kind of had that resurgent year in 2018. I loved those teams. I really, really did. And then when he went that the last year he was in Indianapolis, the bottom fell out. And then they went to Carolina and it was the exact same thing all over again. And so I think them landing on Frank Reich at the end of that entire process and then turning over as much of the coaching staff as they did, it's just hard for me to see a lot of good stuff waiting on the other side of all of that change. And so right or wrong, I just kind of am at a point where I've written that group off in my mind and I just think that they're going to be moving on after this season.

9:38That's just where I sit with it. I know that's probably unfair. How do you feel about Darren Moogie's job security? I think he has job security. I think for all the reasons that we said and the fact that you've assembled this war chest of picks, I think you're in a spot where no matter what happens this season, if you get enough flashes from all the guys you drafted, sometimes we can be in a place, the Joe Shane situation, where these guys hang around for reasons that feel unwarranted. And with Mugi, there just hasn't been enough bad to go along with all of the assets he's accumulated for me to get to the end of this season and be like, the process has been wrong in how they've acquired the players.

10:15I don't know. How could you possibly say that at this point? And so I think he's probably safe. And I think they're probably in the coaching market next year. And when you look at the way that the roster is currently built. I'd feel OK about that. Like, I kind of think that I'll feel OK about the trajectory of the Jets next year, even if they're bad enough for the coaching staff to get fired. I think most people would say that picks, with very few exceptions, like if you had a really difference-making head coach. But for the most part, people would take the picks over the coach, right? So we didn't know the Jets were going to make three first-round picks going into this draft, but they did.

10:54And they have three next year. We don't know if they'll make a full six because maybe they trade some of those assets to go get a quarterback next year. But you're going to make—they may not have to. fair maybe picking in the top three all right well let's just bear that out then and say they make six first round picks over two years does it bother you at all that they could invest that sort of capital in their roster in the midst of a coaching change and like i said guys who you would think at least had some kind of voice in bringing talent into the team go away over a one year span like i brought up the angelo pons on purpose because he's such a unique player and people talk about how Aaron Glenn sees him in himself.

11:33And he is a very good player. I like D 'Angelo Pons, but he is a perfect example of a guy where Aaron Glenn is like, this is my guy. And the next coach is like, what are we going to do with him? That doesn't fit what I'm trying to do here at all. And so those are the types of, and Pons was not a first round pick. I get that, but it's still a top 50 pick. And so I worry about not having that continuity. And we've talked about this a lot over the last couple of years. It feels harsh to me, but once that even creeps into your mind, wouldn't you rather just start over and guarantee yourself that sort of continuity where you're not potentially patching things together midstream?

12:10Yes. Like, if it were up to me and I could go back and do it all over again, I think that's a move that you do make. I can understand why they wouldn't, because it's a tough, tough optics thing to fire another head coach after one year, even if it is the right thing to do. I think the hope is with all of this capital that you have and the fact that you have three next year, even if there may be a little bit of misalignment in how you invested those previous resources, you get to a place next year where there's still enough talent on the roster for this to be an attractive place. You can hire the right coach.

12:40He can pull it all together. Right. Like that to me is always what this is about. Even if there's like, I don't know if you have the exact vision for this guy. If you have the requisite amount of talent and you hire the right coach, those are the two most important things. And I do think both of those things are on the table for this team in the next calendar year. The flip side of that is I feel really good about the two offensive tackles. If even, let's just say, Cooper and Sadiq are like a half and half. So if you have like two and a half pass catchers you feel good about, bookend offensive tackles, some defensive pieces, and three first-round picks, this should be an appealing job for a head coach.

13:20even with the warts of Jets ownership, like even with all of those problems that you are aware of going into it, that should be an appealing place for a coach to want to go and say, I'm going to have a chance to get a quarterback of the future and then some. So if that's where you wind up, if it doesn't go well with Aaron Glenn, that should still be a pretty appealing place. And even when you look at the potential building block pieces they'll have in next year and beyond, talk about the two tackles. They drafted David Bailey with the second overall pick. Garrett Wilson's still on the roster. Like, he's the only one left.

13:52But Garrett Wilson is standing there like Will Smith, looking around the living room, being like, everyone else is gone. And Derek's not here to say Garrett Wilson's not that good. So I can say he's awesome. Garrett Wilson's the man. You've addressed a lot of premium positions. You've addressed essentially all the premium positions you need to find in the first round to kind of set yourself up over the next couple years. And so I think for as awful as this has been for the Jets over the last few years, The fact that this team has the haul they did in the draft this year, has the war chest they have next year, plus$150 million in cap space, I think it's an okay place to be if you're the New York Jets, considering what sort of quagmire this looked like recently.

14:32I buy the totality of the vision for the Jets, warts and all, even if they have to fire their head coach, even if some of these picks don't work out. Like I said, I mean, having the three first-round picks in your back pocket, it's hard to hate on that no matter what you're going to go through this year. And maybe what they go through this year is better than people expect. So, yeah, I'm buying it. I think based on the players themselves, like if you look at the offense, I think the offensive line is often a floor lifter for teams. We'll see what Geno looks like in a different situation than he was with the Raiders last year.

15:02Again, there are requisite pass catching options. This to me just, when we have these offensive ecosystems that are bottomed out, we see how detrimental that is no matter what sort of talent you have on the roster, and I just have this lingering worry that the Jets under Frank Reich might be one of those offenses this year. Let's be blunt about it. I hope I'm wrong. They're either going to be pleasantly surprising and we get one more ride of good Geno, or you don't have to worry about using those extra picks to go get a quarterback, and you'll be picking, if not number one, then top three. And it might suck to get there, but you might wind up being really happy about it by the time January rolls around, if this quarterback class pans out.

15:45If David Bailey has eight sacks, Omar Cooper Jr. and Kenyon Sadiq look like players, D 'Angelo Pons becomes one of those athletic football show demon, like little, you know, pet cats. And you win four games. I think that's a completely fine outcome for the New York Jets. I agree. Let's get to the next one here. The Cleveland Browns hired Todd Mankin as their head coach. Mike Rutenberg is their defensive coordinator. Most of their big moves in terms of player acquisition this spring were offensive linemen. Zion Johnson, three years, 50. Elton Jenkins on a two-year deal. traded for Titus Howard in the draft.

16:15I mean, it would take an hour to list off all the picks, but Spencer Fano, Casey Concepcion, Denzel Boston, Manuel McNeil Warren, Austin Barber were a majority of the big picks that the Browns made. Are you buying or selling the 2026 Cleveland Browns offseason? Browns fans are going to hate to hear this because I'm buying it to the degree that I'm going to turn around and say, what if this works so well that the Browns are screwing themselves out of being in position for the quarterback that they've been after. I think that's a little bit far. How far? Like, I'm not trying to pitch the Browns as a fringe playoff team, but what if the Browns roster is good enough to play its way out of, like, picking top two or top three in the NFL draft?

17:00And I think this is worth pointing out, Robert. We just talked about how valuable it is for the Jets to have three first-round picks in their back pocket. The Browns aren't hoarding resources as of right now. The Browns just have their picks in next year's draft. They have some extra day three stuff, which could help them do some maneuvering. But if you're a New York Jets fan, you're saying, come hell or high water, we'll have the resources we need to trade up for a quarterback in next year's draft, as long as we don't make the playoffs. The Browns, that is not a guarantee with the capital that you have available.

17:33And so this is a bit of a projection. but if I'm a Browns fan, how do you not look at the rookie class last year and how amazing they were and be like, okay, the odds that this year's class is going to be that good again are not great, but with the resources that they spent, I mean, Fano, Concepcion, Boston, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren as a mid-second round pick is incredible value. I mean, if even just one or two of those guys are at the level of Carson Swessinger or Harold Fannin or Quinshawn Judkins. This could be a pretty feisty team. Am I crazy for thinking that? Yes. Fine. Why? Why? Because I think the ceiling is just still incredibly low on offense.

18:20Even if the floor is higher because of these pieces, where do you— I want you to think right now about how you conceive of the New Orleans Saints and how excited and optimistic you are about the New Orleans Saints based on what the offense looked like in the back half of last year. Sure. Just think about it in your mind. Where do you think the Saints finished in offensive DVOA last season? Oh, gosh, probably like 24th. 27th. Okay, yeah. That's my point. Is that I think— The Saints played their way out of— not that this was the draft to do that anyway, but the Saints were good enough that drafting a quarterback wouldn't have been a possibility for them.

18:54I think if you pick in the top 10, if you have the eighth overall pick in the way that the Saints did, you have the potential to maneuver a little bit and find a guy. I think that's— How many quarterbacks are available and how high do you have to go? I think based on my understanding of the quarterback class, there might be three or four of them, right? It might feel like the 2024 group. With love and respect, we said that heading into 2025 and we came away with one and a half. But you feel great about the Saints and they're picking eighth. There is a chance we finish one or two rungs down from that as the Browns and they're picking third overall in this draft.

19:28And that's not mutually exclusive from you feeling really good about the hole they had in the draft. Rookies can only be so impactful. I think it's going to be a transition for Spencer Fano moving back over to the left side to play left tackle. I like Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston, but I think that they're both like pieces of a bigger, greater offense. Like I'm really excited about what the Browns did. I don't think that this draft class and last draft class, when you combine it by projecting the level of quarterback play that Cleveland Browns are likely going to get in 2026 is going to be enough to win them enough games to be on the outside looking in of anything.

20:06That's the only thing that gives me pause. The only thing is the quarterback? Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, it is. It is. It is that bad. That's where I sit with it. It's like, even if all of this other stuff comes together, what is the realistic ceiling if your quarterback room is some combination of 2026 to Sean Watson and Shudder Sanders? But see, here's the thing. And I think you and I are looking at this with slightly different standards of execution. I want to be clear about this. Before we keep going down this road where I seem really pessimistic, I'm wholeheartedly buying the Cleveland Browns offseason.

20:43Like wholeheartedly buying it. I'm actually very excited about it. I want that on the record before we keep going down this path. Clearly, I'm buying it too. Sure. But I think that I've played the villain here when in actuality, I thought I was going to be the more enthusiastic party here as we were talking about the Browns. But see, here's my point is you think the Browns have to meet this high bar to play their way out of a quarterback. They were abysmal to watch last year and they finished sixth. They picked sixth in the draft before they traded back for Spencer Fano. I mean, it can get crowded up there at the top.

21:17They're going to wind up for one reason or another being some dog shit teams. And if the Browns draft class this year is half as good as it was last year, you combine that with a defense that's already amazing. Miles Garrett still plays there last time I checked. My point is just not my point is not that the Browns are going to be picking 15th. It's that the Browns could be picking fifth in a year where there are they don't have that much capital to move up. And it would be amazing for us as somebody who makes draft content. I hope there are five quarterbacks, but you can't bank on that right now.

21:51And that's what gives me a little bit of existential dread. I think you're just getting way ahead of yourself. It's May 1st. I can do that. I think that even if I can't, you can't be in a position where you're like, man, we might've added too much young cost control talent to the team. Maybe we won't be in position to draft a quarterback next year. I think to be fair, we're, yeah, I'm so far out over my skis. And this is all a roundabout way of saying, I love the Browns offseason. I think they are, they're following the ideal blueprint of laying the foundation for a quality roster for a quarterback to then step into.

22:29And that's exactly my thought. That's exactly my thought. I'm just, I want for them to find that quarterback so badly that I hope they're just not doing too good of a job. I say that tongue in cheek, but you never know. You never know what's going to be available to you when the next draft class finally rolls around and you see how it all lays out. That's my only concern. I really like how they approached this offseason and this draft specifically. We talked a lot about the Browns draft. Some of it is colored by the fact that I like the players that they drafted, but I think you could absolutely get on board.

23:00I think between the two of us, they drafted like five players that we absolutely love. And I think it's, you know, we do this sometimes too often. We're like, Emmanuel, we're supposed to be a first round pick. He falls to the second round. Now he's suddenly the best pick in the draft. But I think the process positionally of who they went for, how they complement one another, I can really get on board with this. The offensive line acquisitions, the veteran offensive line acquisitions, it feels like the Kirkland brand of what the Bears did last year. Like it's you're getting a discount because it's the generic brand, but I can understand what they were doing.

23:29Like the Zion Johnson contract, it's not a cheap deal. But when you look at where it falls in overall guard contracts, it's less than Will Fries and Jonah Jackson got last year. it's more than uh ben powers and john runny got a couple years ago like it makes sense as a second contract player you're hoping his best football is in front of him the elton jenkins contract is a little worrying to me like 12 million dollars for a guy who his best position is not center you're projecting him to play there he was hurt last year that one i think that i'm i worry about that looking good a year from now but the titus howard one kind of similar you're paying a premium on that extension.

24:05It's a top seven mark, I think, for right tackles in terms of AAV, but you've protected yourself with those moves. And I think protecting yourself over a two-year span, which is what they've done, because all of those moves and all of those contracts take you into 2027 when you will hopefully be dropping a quarterback into it. And so even if you're paying a little bit of a sticker price for all of those guys, I think the multi-year plan in terms of why you need them makes sense to me. it's a classic case of we spent a year looking at the Browns offensive line with all the expiring contracts and the aging players and we're just like whoa who's gonna play offensive line for this team they don't have one and now they have a whole offensive line of guys who have played NFL football and and some of them well at times but it's easy to just look at that and be like oh it'll definitely be better that is certainly not a guarantee even if it looks considering where they were.

25:00I don't even think that was the bar, though. I don't think it would. I don't think it definitely needs to be better for them to accomplish what they want. Yes. I think it's a is this a workable group of offensive linemen both now and maybe one year into the future? I think you can squint and say yes. I feel OK about the answer to that. Yeah. Compared to where they were in January and the work that they had to do, I think they they did that work admirably. The Monken part of this. I'm into it. Like it's, he's a weird choice. It's my, you can only say so. I don't, you don't want to, you don't want to talk too much about like personality and fit and things like that before a guy gets into the chair, because you don't always know.

25:39And I think part of my curiosity about the Todd Malkin hire is just that personality wise, he is kind of a strange choice as an NFL head coach. And then he immediately showed you why. And every single time he's gotten in front of a microphone, but it's made me very interested in what's going to happen with this. I kind of love it. I'm into it. He says something amusing and interesting every three weeks. And I think it could work out. Like, again, the comparison that I made in terms of like the best case scenario for this was something like the Bruce Arians hire in Arizona. And I do think that there is a path where it looks like that.

26:13And when you compare him to all the other offensive coaches, you know, this head coaching cycle, and we could have said this about the Jets, there are a lot of big names available. There are a lot of guys that people wanted to chase. The John Harbaugh's of the world, Kevin Stefanski. I think the Browns wanted an offensive-minded head coach. And this group of coaches outside of Kevin Stefanski was a down year for that sort of archetype compared to like what we had last year with Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen. And so them not going with like the super young guy like a Udinski and going with a guy like Todd Munkin, I think is an okay place to land in this coaching cycle specifically.

26:48And if it doesn't work out, if this is just like another David Culley situation, fine, then you're in the market again next year. It just like, I think that the variance of what Todd Monken can be is a completely okay thing for a team that really is a year away from making the most important decisions it's going to make. We pinned it from the jump that the Browns job would be one that you're probably not attracting the best candidates possible. You might have to hire a coach and be willing to part with him in two, maybe even one year. Todd Monken was one of the last guys hired in this cycle. So I think everybody realized that ahead of time.

27:26And now it's, I mean, it's pure upside. Like he could be pleasantly surprising and he's had success at most of his stops as a play caller. So the quarterback gives me pause. I don't, I don't know exactly how good that's going to look, but I'm at least interested. They're picking like 23rd overall based on how you're projecting the Browns here. See, I won't let you put words in my mouth. All I said was they could be good enough to play their way out of a quarterback, which just means not picking in the top three. So here, you started with this, and I was planning to come all the way around to this.

27:59In my notes, it says, I think that the Browns are going to be in the market for a quarterback next year. Is there a chance that they don't have enough draft capital to feel comfortable? Oh, so I just cannonballed in with the point that you were going to make at the end. So what I was going to come all the way back around to is the last point. If you are a team that feels like we have some financial levers that we can pull, we think that we're close, I'd call the Browns on June 5th and see what it would take to get Myles Garrett. That's fun. Because I do think that for all of this to come together, they probably need to be in a spot where they feel comfortable in their ability to get a quarterback in 2027.

28:43Do you feel comfortable without extra draft capital? If I'm the Browns, not really. And that would be a chance for you to get it. Although, okay, let's, we should at least talk about it a little bit. I know the Browns quarterback situation is radioactive for like 18 reasons. I've just chosen not to engage with it. Because I don't think there's like anything worthwhile at the end of that road. I'm curious, though, because, I mean, there's so much smoke coming out of the Browns facility that Deshaun Watson might be the starting quarterback this year. And my gut instinct is to say, no matter what your opinion of Shadur Sanders is, isn't it more interesting and more fun to let the young quarterback who a lot of people thought more highly of than a fifth round pick take this and run with it?

29:30And the offensive line is retooled. You got some receivers. See what Shadur Sanders could do. Or Deshaun Watson was the worst quarterback by EPA per play in the NFL, worse than Will Levis and Anthony Richardson last time he was healthy enough to start. Is starting Deshaun Watson an effort by the Browns to make sure they don't play their way out of the quarterback? That's a fun galaxy brain thought. That sounds harsh, but I won't be gaslit into forgetting how bad it was before he got hurt in 2019. 2024. My thing is like, he's not going to be on the team next year anyway. Right. Who gives a shit?

30:10Like the idea, I am so done with the Deshaun Watson experience. Like I could not be less interested in watching him play quarterback for another year. What if, oh, neither am I. But what if, what if Deshaun Watson's final act in Cleveland secured them a quarterback in 2027? This is the one. It makes the draft worth it. This is one of the worst decisions that has ever been made in the NFL, but if you can help us find a quarterback in 2027, not going to call it even, but you're salvaging something maybe. Well, think about it. Now, if you don't have to trade Miles Garrett and you have the number one overall pick, in a way you can twist that into we gained at least an extra first round pick by playing Deshaun Watson this year.

30:51We got one of them back. Would you rather, would you rather watch Deshaun Watson start a quarterback for 13 weeks or trade Miles Garrett. Probably watch Deshaun Watson play quarterback for 13 weeks. I agree, and that might be the unpleasant calculus happening in the Browns facility. I don't know that, but that's where my head goes. Because, like, if you're really just trying to find out the most about your roster, I would start Shadur Sanders. But if I'm trying to make sure that I can find my way to a quarterback next spring, Deshaun Watson might be the right path to take. I don't know. Now, to put a button on this, I think the whole basis of feeling decent about this Browns offseason, in 2027, in week one of 2027, there is a possibility, all of these players are going to be under contract, that your starting offense is Jerry Judy, Denzel Boston, Casey Concepcion, Spencer Fano, Zion Johnson, Elton Jenkins, Austin Barber playing guard who you drafted in the third round, Titus Howard at right tackle, Harold Fenn, and Quitshot Junkins.

31:53Those are your 10 other starters. That's a reasonable place to put a quarterback in 2027. And I think if you're the Browns, that's about as good as you could have hoped for. I so firmly buy their offseason. To the point that I'm worried about what it could mean for 2027. And I'm just worried that I feel this good about it because clearly I'm missing something. All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and chat about a team that I think this might be divisive. The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to 9 hours a day on screens, often unsupervised, and studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression, and even suicidal thoughts.

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34:14the tennessee titans offseason hire robert sala hired brian dable hire gus bradley to be their defensive coordinator big money contracts for wandell robinson john franklin myers elante taylor cordell flott traded to mondre sweat for jermaine johnson essentially in the draft their big haul here is carnell tate eldrick falk anthony hill they didn't actually have any other third or fourth round picks to pick in the fifth round after those three well they traded up for keldrick they gave away a couple and they traded up for anthony hill i believe yeah yeah so to move up from 35 to 31 there was a three spot swap uh in the third round but then in the form the fourth to fifth round they gave away 101 and they got back 165 so that's a 64 pick drop so that's significant and that's why they didn't pick until the fifth round so are you buying or selling the Tennessee Titans offseason.

35:03You made a Lord of the Rings reference on the show earlier this week, and it made an impression on me. And I was looking through, I was looking through the Titans offseason today, getting ready for this show. And I was looking at all their moves and I said, this seems like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart, just like Frodo Baggins at the end of the fellowship of the ring. And that's, that's how I feel about the Titans. I, I'm a fan of cam ward. I want to like it more than I do. I'm surprised that you landed here. I want to like it more than I do. We're kind of in lockstep about this, and I'm a little bit surprised.

35:41I thought this would be a point of contention. Okay, well, let me start with what I do like. I really do like the defensive overhaul. I actually, shockingly, considering they hired Robert Sala, and that's his forte, I like what they've done on the defensive side of the ball. Like, you know, signing John Franklin Myers, trading for Jermaine Johnson, who Robert Sala obviously knows really well. You add that with Jeffrey Simmons. Keldrick Falk is a guy I liked a lot. And even if he doesn't have it all put together as a pass rusher right away, that's a guy who, A, he can help you quickly, at least as a run defender, and B, what a great place to learn how to play on the defensive lineman with Robert Sala.

36:22And I think is White Cotton, Aaron White Cotton landed in Tennessee too, didn't he? I believe so. So just the defensive line coach, if you didn't know that. He was in Dallas last year. So just a phenomenal place. And comes from that world. Comes from the Jets world. Phenomenal place for a young defensive lineman to learn. They brought a reunion with Solomon Thomas. They brought him over from Dallas as well. I like the draft picks. It's a lot of money to spend on cornerback between Elante Taylor and Cordell Flott. But if the front is as good as they think it could be, I see the vision here. Like, I like what the Titans have done on the defensive side of the ball.

36:58And then on, you don't like it? So you don't even agree with me there. I just think that who's like the difference-making move they made up front? I like John Franklin Myers. John Franklin Myers is a really good piece of a good defensive line. John Franklin Myers on his last deal made$7.5 million. They just paid John Franklin Myers$21 million a year going into his age 30 season. I like the idea of Keldrick Falk. I think Keldrick Falk is a worthwhile swing at 31. He is an idea at this point. Jermaine Johnson, who played two games two years ago, and granted was coming off of injury last year, had three and a half sacks and 31 pressures in 13 games last year.

37:38Here's my rebuttal. They didn't add a difference maker. They added several solid pieces to a gravitational sort of player in Jeffrey Simmons. And I do think he is that. That's fair. I just think that this is a lot of change and a lot of investment. across the entire defense for me to walk away from it being like, okay. I mean, that's where the Titans have been for the last two or three years. And that's part of my problem here, is that this feels sort of similar to other Titans off seasons where they throw around all these resources and we're like, yeah, and then you actually look at it and like, how much better are they really?

38:15And I think that they remade the defense in the image of the defensive coach. I don't know how much better certain parts of this defense actually are. I think it could be. I just think that I'm kind of in wait and see mode about what the actual impact of this moves looks like in totality. I like the front a lot. And if you have a good front, I think it can make everything else look a hell of a lot better. Like Anthony Hill, I think is a young ascending player who I don't expect him to like hit the ground running, but you still have Cody Barton there. I was a little surprised. I thought the Titans would spend a draft pick in the secondary somewhere along the line.

38:55They spent$150 million to fix it. Hopefully they don't have to. That's my point. They spent all that money on free agents. So it's not amazing, but I think this is a nice starting point. And really, a lot of my optimism comes from the fact that I think the world of Jeffrey Simmons and putting a decent supporting cast around him, I think, can pay dividends. I think he is a tremendously underrated player, even as a guy that everybody is aware of. Do you know, have you ever done this where you'll buy something online and you take a long look at the return policy before you buy it, knowing that it might be something you send back?

39:32Like you're truly just buying it to try it on? Honestly, no. I hate returning things. Okay, so this is something that I do. Maybe this is not something that other men have ever done. I probably buy too many clothes, but I do this every once in a while. There are a few brick and mortar stores in 2026. True. That's kind of how it goes. Yes. There are times where I'll buy something and be like, I'm kind of half into this. That's how I feel about the Titans. It's not that I'm like full selling what they did this offseason. I'm just in wait and see mode on a lot of this stuff. I think that the personnel decisions are that.

39:59And I'm also in a spot where are we just going to like memory hole the Robert Sala Jets experience? Like Robert Sala is 20 and 36 as a head coach. Brian Dable was a worthwhile hire by the Giants. And I think that I understand why Brian Dable was a sought after offensive coordinator in this cycle. over the past three seasons combined, the New York Giants were 28th in EPA per play. Brian Dable was the play caller. So I like the defense more than you do. That's fine. And I would argue Robert Sala's Jets defenses for the most part were great. They were great. They were awesome. They were great. So, and some of that is giving the benefit of the doubt to a guy that I think has earned it.

40:36And what Robert Sala did with the Niners defense last year, considering all of the losses to injury, I thought was incredibly impressive. the other side of this is is what gives me pause and it's it's tempting to see that they drafted a receiver in the top five a player that we both like and carnell tate and get excited about that and they've invested on the offensive line not this offseason and and i i sit here and i'm like what does this mean like is this actually good enough and to your point this is a fun thing that I always like to do. We've joked about it before. Brian Dable is the OC in Tennessee now.

41:15And I'm looking through this and I'm just like, few too many giants for my taste. Why, why does Brian Dable get this much influence on who's playing for the Titans? When you finish 28th combined in EPA per player over the last three years, you have to go back and chase those players. You understand that? Like, I'm just like, okay, Daniel Bellinger, that's fine. Wait, Wandel Robinson, Austin Schlottman, who looks like he's going to be the starting center unless sixth round pick Pat Coogan can take his job. Just like we're going to the Giants. Well, a lot for a team that wasn't a whole lot to brag about over the last few years.

41:49We'll see when he wants to start practicing because summers are hot down in Nashville. I'm at least giving Kevin Zeitler a call scene where his head's at right now. I firmly think Kevin Zeitler will be on this team. I know we can't guarantee that, but reading the tea leaves, that certainly seems likely. And he's, if he wants to wait. Is that just vibes or do you read that somewhere that it seems like they're circling a reunion? That's, yeah, no, that's been reported. Okay, okay. It's at least possible. All right, well, that's good. It's at least possible. Because I would like to see that happen.

42:16This is where I'm at. The Wando Robinson contract is like, I don't know about that. I mentioned the Franklin Myers thing. I like him as a player. He's making three times as much on this deal as he did with his last deal going into his age 30 season. I think there's a good chance one or both of the cornerback investments a year from now we get buyer's remorse about those and so i i get that they threw around a lot threw around a lot of resources i get that robert sala is a guy who's coached good defenses in the past brian dabel was a sought after offensive coordinator in this cycle i am open to the idea that all of these things can come together and the jets can look at a deeply competent team next year in you in year two of cam ward i'm just firmly in wait and see mode I'm like again it's in the cart I don't know if I'm gonna keep it when it comes to buying or selling the titans oh that's a great analogy that I do do that what I do if I'm not sure I want to buy something I'll leave it in my cart for like three months where I'm just like ah not today let's go with that because that that's where I sit with it it's a purchase that I am open to making but I'm not all the way there the titans are the purchase the reckless purchase that I want to make but I'm waiting for my tax refund to come in.

43:25I'm like, all right, now I can do it. I, and I get, I'm sure there are people screaming that the Jets were bad because the offense was bad. He has Cam Ward now. They never figured out the quarterback with the Jets. I'm totally open to that. I just think that we should acknowledge the fact that Robert Sala has a 20 and 36 record as a head coach and Brian Dable's offense is without Josh Allen for the most part, other than a weird smoking mirrors year where they did some truly like bizarre shit to get to 10th overall in EPA per play that I had a lot of respect for in the moment, Brian Dable's offenses have been bad outside of the Josh Allen universe.

43:59And so I just wanted to acknowledge all of that and the fact that I don't think they added that many difference-making players in the veteran market this year as my points of skepticism about how much better and how much better off the Titans are. If you're looking at the totality of the Titans offense and you're legitimately excited, I think that's too optimistic. Like, you can be intrigued. You can like Carnell Tate. Maybe Cam Ward really is just going to take that step where he can overcome some of that stuff. But just looking at what we know about the cast around him, it's fine. It's not bad, but it's not exciting.

44:41This whole thing is can we get Mike Vrabel, right? Yeah. It's can we get the Mike Vrabel effect in New England? Mike Vrabel was a very good coach for the Titans the first time around. That was not the case with Robert Zahel on the whole. When you're looking at the record, the results, all of that stuff, that did not happen. And so I think that comparing those two and acknowledging that difference is an important part of setting the correct expectations for the Titans. Does Zeitler signing back on move the needle substantially for you? No, because I feel the same way about the defense, where it's just like, okay, they'll be fine.

45:13And that's kind of how I feel about it. I want to be more excited than I am. I'm gonna I'm just gonna sit with this in my cart for a couple months and try to talk myself into it Probably talk about the las vegas raiders clint kubiak in as the head coach massive money for tyro linderbaum Quiddy pay quay walker and a kobe dean jaylen nailer brought in kirk cousins in the draft We know what they did fernando mendoza number one trade and stooks keyron crawford Trey zoon and then jermon mccoy with the big swing at 101. Are you buying or selling the raiders offseason? How do you not buy a team that drafted the number one quarterback in the NFL?

45:48Like from where they were last year, and I would argue what they have in place for a young quarterback to step into. I think it's pretty solid. Like, I think. Do you, though? For the team that just was the worst in the NFL, like the absolute worst. Remember the tank bowl between the Giants and the Raiders? I do. How much better do you think the offensive infrastructure is, though, in terms of the talent surrounding him? Tyler Linderbaum is a good player. This idea that Tyler Linderbaum is some massive cure-all for everything you need on offense, I think is a little bit overstated. Like, because he got paid$27 million and because he was this prize in free agency, I think we may be overrating, like, the overall impact that Tyler Linderbaum can have for an offense.

46:32Even if Tyler Linderbaum's only the sixth or seventh best center in the NFL, like doesn't just having that as some sort of stabilizing force count for something it counts for something I'm not sure how much it counts for independent of that like I feel I feel fine about the Raiders offensive line again maybe I'm looking at that through the lens of the fact that they were just the worst team in the NFL but it was well documented by the end of last year coaching was a huge aspect of why the Raiders weren't better clearly and in particular on their offensive line So if we feel better about the coaching infrastructure, Clint Kubiak has done wonders with.

47:11He just did this. Yes. He literally just did this exact thing where you're coming into a place where the bottom fell out of the offensive ecosystem and you're getting them back to a much, much healthier position. And the biggest impact of that is the offensive line look like a completely different unit with marginal additions. And that's exactly what the Seahawks did last year. And that's exactly what the Raiders did this offseason. And we argue about this all the time. It wasn't a huge sample size. It looked like he was doing it for the Saints, too, before their entire roster got hurt. So there's plenty of proof of concept here.

47:43You have, we did a whole show earlier this week about how they need help at receiver. But Brock Bowers and Ashton Jenty, as guys who can help a young quarterback out, is a decent place to start for a team that was so bad last year. Like one year ago, they were atrocious. This is a perfectly acceptable place for Fernando Mendoza to be. I have no real issues. I'm not worried. I'm not concerned for his safety, which is like something we say about guys taken at the top of the draft sometimes. I think that's fair. I think we still have a lot of questions about a couple of the starting offensive line spots.

48:21Like they drafted two guys in the third round last year that should compete to be one of the starting guards and one of the starting tackles. Again, that's merely an idea. I overall where I land with the Raiders is I don't have any active problems with any of the things that they did I think a lot of them make sense even the hypothetical Max Crosby trade I get why you wanted to do that in the moment The way I land on this and this is kind of cheating It's not that I'm selling the Raiders offseason It's that if the Raiders were a stock I would be selling them right now because I think people are higher on the Raiders because they drafted Fernando Mendoza number one overall Then you should be given the totality of their moves combined Clint Kubiak did a really good job last year with the Seahawks.

49:01Clint Kubiak is a one-year play caller in Seattle that I think there should be some questions about what he looks like as a head coach. Because I just don't think we know. And so I just don't think, and you look at the staff that he has, like there's a lot of lifers on there who haven't been in those roles recently. Like Rick Dennison is the offensive line coach. I'm open to the idea of this working out. I just think that the idea, like the notion that it's automatically going to be so much better there, I just don't think I can get there quite yet. And so while I do, again, it's not that I actively disagree with anything that they did.

49:33I just think people overall are higher on the Raiders potential than I am. And so if they were a stock, I would be selling them because I think it's a little bit overvalued. I think I don't I don't do stocks, by the way. That may be how stocks work. I'm not sure. Two guys who know nothing about the stock market talking about buying and selling. I think you just can't forget how abysmal it was. Yes. And that's so I think even if you're right that the Raiders aren't some fun, plucky upstart that's going to surprise a lot of people. They could be. They could be. Well, yes, absolutely. They could be.

50:07But even if they're just bad, even if they're just run of the mill bad. And Fernando Mendoza has what I know, Joe got hurt. But like, what did the Bengals do in 2020? The 2020 Bengals went for 11 and one and Joe Burrow looked like a guy you were happy you spent the pick on. Like that's acceptable for the Raiders to be. That's totally fine. And I think that's kind of where I land is like, I don't know. I just, I think that there is a chance that some of these moves don't work out that well. Where we leave this season being like, is the coaching staff that they hired, are they actually difference makers?

50:42And they're actually guys that are going to like multiply the talent on your team in a positive way. I'm just not sure about that yet. I do think it's possible. But also, if the quarterback is really good, that shit matters less. And that's exactly what you're talking about with the Bengals. But it's also one of the things where like, I'm not giving them credit for having the number one pick in the draft and drafting Fernando Mendoza. Like they just landed in that spot. You should give them credit because somebody had to lose the tank bowls. Damn it. Wait, you actually, you bring up an interesting point.

51:07I wanted to ask you about this. You typically have your finger on the pulse of coaching and coaching hires. I'm intrigued by Kubiak's DC hire, Rob Leonard. I know very little about him. Very little. He was the defensive line coach last year. I don't know a whole lot about him either. He was the defensive line coach and worked under Patrick Graham in Vegas for the last couple of years. He was in Baltimore for a year with Mike McDonald as the Ravens outside linebacker coach in 2022. And he coached under Flores in Miami. I do not know if that makes him a good coach, but he has spent a lot of time around defensive coaches that I respect the hell out of over the last few years.

51:43So looking back into his history, again, never met the guy, don't know anything about him, but just looking at who he's worked with and where he's gone over the last few years, it I was intrigued. It perked my eyebrows up. Here's where I land with this. This reminds me a little bit of the Gannon hire, where it's late into the process. They hire one of the coordinators in the Super Bowl. And I think in the moment, there was nothing wrong with that hire. And I do think you can make an argument that schematically, Clint Kubiak has been more interesting than Jonathan Gannon was in Philadelphia. I think it's perfectly fine.

52:14I get going this direction. I just think that the Gannon era in Arizona left a little bit to be desired. And I could see the same thing happening with the Raiders. That's where I land with it. That's just so funny because the beginning of the Gannon era was so promising because they looked so hopeless and they were better than that. And they obviously weren't able to build on it. But the beginning of that was encouraging, at least to me. They just weren't able to do anything with it after that. They're very different personalities. They're very different, like, prospects as head coaches. You hire them for very different reasons.

52:44But there are some similarities in just how I'm feeling about it in the moment. One last thing I'll say is I just, I'm buying the Raiders because I buy Fernando Mendoza. and it goes back to something we've said a million times over the course of the draft process. I don't think people view him that way. Like, people don't view him as a franchise-changing prospect. At least that's my opinion. And I think he could be. I believe in Fernando Mendoza, and I think a lot of that shit will matter less if he's the player I think he is. And I wanted one more point on it. I like the players that they added.

53:13I think that where they went in the draft makes total sense. I don't mind what they did in free agency, and the Linderbaum contract is insane. I think I can get on board with a lot of these things. I just don't know if they're automatically going to be the difference-making moves that Raiders fans probably want them to be in the year one of a new regime. I'm still just in wait-and-see mode when it comes to that. Next one, speaking of the Jonathan Gannon Cardinals, is the Arizona Cardinals. Harry Michael Fleur kept Nick Rolos as a defensive coordinator. I mean, Tyler Rolos here and Isaac Salomalo were the free agent moves that they made.

53:41A couple other smaller ones we could talk about. In the draft, Jeremiah Love, Chase Basontes, Carson Beck were their first three picks. are you buying or selling the 2026 Arizona Cardinals offseason? I'm selling pretty firmly. This is the easiest one for me. I will say if you're a Cardinals fan looking for optimism, I'll dunk on myself and say the Cardinals kind of remind me of last year's Saints who looked completely hopeless and I didn't understand why they drafted a quarterback where they did and one year made a shitload of difference. and maybe that'll be the case for the for arizona but the amount of players that got hurt last year you have a healthier overall roster you added at least one pick to your offensive line and and took a guy in jeremiah love who even if i disagree with the value there maybe he can do some significant things to raise the floor of your offense maybe a year from now they'll be in a much better place than i'm giving them credit for but i don't see it right now in spring of 2026 i'm selling it i I just don't understand the vision for it.

54:46I don't understand what the plan is at this point. You have$155 million in cap space next year. Maybe the plan is like, eh, we're in a holding pattern. Let's see where we're at a year from now. But you look at the way that they use the draft capital, and I just think it's really hard to get behind. I don't think they're any better now than they were at the start of the offseason. Maybe the offensive line is better. You upgrade those two interior spots, which I think is important, but I just don't think it's significantly better. and then the defense, really what you're hoping for is your injury luck is better and that unit takes a big bounce back.

55:17I think that's totally reasonable. But with the way that they use the resources that they had this year, Salamah is 33. He's not going to be a part of your plans when you're ready to be competitive. And so even if it's raising the floor of your team this year, I don't know how it's a multi-year move. And then when you look at the way that they use the capital, they will almost certainly be picking in the top five next year. No matter, I don't even think they have the upside case the Browns do. I think they will be picking in the top five next year. They'll be taking a quarterback because they didn't find one this year.

55:48They will be in the quarterback market next year. Okay, so they're going to take a quarterback in the top five in 2027. Who's going to play right tackle for them? Who's going to be rushing the passer with Zayvon Collins being a free agent? That's why I have an issue with the Jeremiah Love thing. If you look at the multi-year outlook for this team, they have holes at both of those spots beyond this season. They signed Elijah Wilkinson to be a stopgap right tackle this year. I think he did an admirable job in Atlanta last year when thrust into duty, when their top two guys got hurt. He is a journeyman guy that you paid a couple million bucks.

56:20It's not a multi-year answer. Go look at the free agent tackles available for next year. We've been talking about that all year. It's heinous. Good tackles don't hit the free agent market anymore. Jawan Taylor is going to be your best bet at right tackle next year, who we'll talk about in a second. Again, at edge, what are you going to do? Who are the guys that you're going to seek out? You have Josh Sweat on the roster. Other than that, you don't have many other options there. And so projecting this out over multiple years and what they did with the love thing, and not only what they did with the love thing, using the 65th overall pick on Carson Beck.

56:51Like, I just think that there are players available that make more sense for the 2027 and 2028 Arizona Cardinals than where they went with it. And those are most of the important moves they made because they didn't do anything in free agency. The second biggest move they made in free agency was signing a guy that plays the same position as the guy that drafted third overall. $12 million for Tyler Algier, by the way. Which is fine, right? Like, he's a second running back. That's exactly what he's been. It's less fine when you already have James Conner and Trey Benson on the roster. I just don't understand what it's supposed to be.

57:24And for that reason, I think it's pretty easy to sell this one. Jeremiah Love is the highest running back drafted since Saquon Barkley. And Saquon Barkley was incredible as a New York Giant. Like he, when he was healthy, he played like a guy worthy of drafting number two overall. And the offenses were bad. And it didn't get the Giants anywhere. It didn't do anything. And I worry about that for Jeremiah Love, even though I think the world of him as a player. Speaking of the Giants, we're going to talk about them in a second. But first, we're going to take one more quick break.

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59:50The New York Giants hired John Harbaugh this offseason, Matt Nagy and Denard Wilson as his coordinators. In free agency, Isaiah Likely, Jermaine Illuminor, Jermaine Edmonds, small one-year deals for Greg Newsom or Darius Washington, Darnell Mooney. In the draft, their big three moves, Arvo Reese at five, Francis Maui Noah at 10, and Colton Hood in the second round. Are you buying or selling the New York Giants offseason? I'm going to borrow the point I made on a show earlier this week. I wholeheartedly buy what the Giants are doing as long as we're being honest with ourselves about who the Giants are.

1:00:24And that is a team that bottomed out, fired their head coach, brought in an established head coach with a track record of winning and an established reputation in the NFL to reboot them and give them respectability. Like, it's still kind of weird to talk about the Giants that way because they're one of the most storied franchises in the league and they've won several Super Bowls, but they attained that level of ineptitude that they had to bring in somebody to make them look better. And so if we look at it in that frame where you're basically starting over from square one and you're trying to build this thing from the ground up, I think this is a great first step for a team trying to regain respectability.

1:01:09As long as we're not trying to talk about the Giants as a factor in the NFC this year, I completely buy what they've done. It's a hard buy for me. I can get on board with pretty much every single thing that they did. even a free agency, right? Like they would Isaiah Likely, they signed Tremaine Edmonds, Tremaine Edmonds because he was cut, doesn't play into the comp pick formula. They're going to get a fourth round pick for Wondell Robinson. Like they weren't passive in the moves. That Ravens DNA is already in there, man. But that's part of it, right? And I think that it's about trying to make the team better while also understanding that you have to have a multi-year outlook in mind when you're at this stage.

1:01:45And I think that they did a good job of taking both of those things and weighing them equally with the moves that they made. and I like what they did. Like I can completely understand if you're the Giants. If you're the Bengals and you're in this position with Joe Burrow, I have no problem dealing the 10th overall pick and going and getting Dexter Lawrence. I think where you are as a franchise, I get it. Where you are with the Giants, would you rather give a third contract to Dexter Lawrence or would you rather have Francis Maui Noah? It's no question. And it's the coup of the offseason for the Giants and that's not to hate on Dexter Lawrence.

1:02:17I love the move for both parties, honestly. Like for where Dexter Lawrence in his career, it makes sense for him to land on a team like Cincinnati. They obviously really needed him and were willing to pay him to be there for a little while. And the Giants come out of this draft with who our guy, Dane, thinks is the best player in the NFL draft. And you manage to reinforce your offensive line and plug in Francis Maui Noah. I love that he gets to start out at guard. Perfect. He's the perfect spot. Yes. He's the idea that, all right, we're going to see what he is at guard. and then in two years, if we move on from Illuminor, he can go out and play tackle.

1:02:52It's a perfect landing spot for him. And even like a small thing like the Mooney contract for next to nothing. Like, I think that's a way to protect yourself. Calvin Austin as well. Depending on how the draft could go. And so they get Malachi Fields eventually, but I think they have enough at the pass catching spots with likely. I think what they did on defense, and like, again, the Arvel Reese thing, if they bring in DJ Reader and he's kind of the, again, the Costco version of losing Dexter Lawrence and you can, I get everything that they did. The truly the only thing where I, and I'm not like, I want to be clear about this.

1:03:25I'm not like over the moon about this. I don't think that John Harbaugh is necessarily this like total cure-all as a head coach. John Harbaugh operated in a very stable organization that's been very good at a lot of things for a long time with Lamar f***ing Jackson. This is a different situation. But I think all of the moves that they made for the most part are things I can get behind. I understand the thought process behind them. the only one where I'm like, I wish you would have done something different than this is Nagy. That's it. Yeah. It's the only one that I'm not like actively excited about.

1:03:53I can't wait to see what Denard Wilson can do with going from a place where he had no pass rushers on the edge to going to a place where he has like three to four pass rushers on the edge. So many, they might try to get rid of one. I'm into this. I'm very into what they are. And I think you doing a good job of level setting where it's like, what are they actually? And I think being at a place where we're winning between seven and ten games and we're competitive maybe we sneak in as a wild card like i think that's an okay place for the giants to be i think that would be a great season for the new york giants are you kidding me yeah that would be over the moon can you imagine i'm already daydreaming about andrew thomas stays healthy and the new york giants offensive line kicks ass it's actually a strength for the first time in a long time rather and it's been better the last couple years i want to be no but like a strength it could be a strength and then i'll be in here every week arguing with derrick where derrick's like jackson dart isn't doing anything impressive and i'm like yeah it's okay they're he's playing well and winning like it's whatever i i can't wait i'm already daydreaming about it yeah i it's i i think that they've done a very good job of making the team better without overextending themselves too much i think that's it's been a very measured but impactful offseason for the New York Giants.

1:05:09I'm pretty cautiously optimistic about these first steps. These next two are an interesting pairing. We have a team that did as many things as it possibly could and adding players, and then you have another team that added no players. The Miami Dolphins. Some of the details here. $179 million in dead money for the Dolphins, as just in the background of how we think about the rest of these moves. Hired Jeff Halfley as their head coach. Sean O. Eric Sullivan is their GM. Bobby Sloat comes in as the offensive coordinator. Simon Leak-Willis, that's mostly what they did in for agency because they have$179 million in dead money right now.

1:05:46Traded Jalen Waddle for a one and some day three capital. Cut Bradley Chubb, Tyreek Hiltua. That's how you get to$179 million. In the draft, we'd be here for an hour. But Caden Proctor, Chris Johnson, Jacob Rodriguez, Chris Bell are the big moves for the Dolphins. are you buying or selling the Miami Dolphins offseason? I don't know how to answer this. It's impossible to say. Here's my answer. If the rookies are good, then I'm buying it. And if the rookies aren't good, then I'm selling it. I don't know what else to say. When you draft 13 guys and half of them are expected to play pretty sizable roles early, it's all about that.

1:06:24How good of a job did you do? Everybody loves their draft class right now. How good is it going to be really? I mean, I think you said this on a show a while back, like if the Dolphins draft class has a Browns sort of year where you have a rookie of the year candidate and two or three other meaningful starters, then I'm buying this wholeheartedly. If it turns out that a couple of these picks were reaches or a couple of these guys just aren't as good as we thought, or maybe, you know, God forbid, but somebody gets hurt and misses the year, then that's pretty hard to buy because it's a year of the Malik Willis contract where we assume it's not going to go that well, but the less rookie contributions you're getting, the less you have any way to go on what they're building here.

1:07:07So I think it hinges entirely on what a 13-person rookie class does. I don't know how else to pitch it. I'm buying it for what it is. I guess that's where I went. Ground zero? Yeah, it's ground zero. And I'm buying it for what it is. I think that that's a really good way to frame it. And if you look at it, like, if Jacob Rodriguez is 85 % of what Carson Swessinger is from last year, you'd feel pretty good about that. Those early picks are going to go a huge way. Chris Bell gets on the field in, like, week five and does some crazy shit. We talked about it in real time. The Chris Bell swing is completely understandable when you are a team in the Dolphins situation.

1:07:44The receiving core is a nightmare, but when you start with zero players other than the three or four guys you have along the offensive line, you can only do so much even if you have 13 draft picks. The Proctor thing is interesting. Like, I wonder what the multi-year plan for him is. If he was always going to just play guard, would you rather have Ioane? But I don't think that's how they're seeing. No, I think it's a starter point. And then that moved beyond that. Austin Jackson has had durability issues. Exactly. And he might not be there for the long term. So you get him at guard right guard for this year.

1:08:13He's a right tackle beyond that. I think that's a totally reasonable place to land. And then, again, in free agency, what could they possibly do? The only thing that I, not that I question, but that I'm curious about is, like, I'm not sure I totally understand the Willis thing in conjunction with everything else. Like, why did you feel so compelled to do this? You can move on from him next year for$25 million against the cap. You have an ocean of cap space. You won't even notice it. And I think the argument is, in the chance it works out, there's enough of an upside case where it's worth it for you.

1:08:50And when you look at teams that have been these rebuilding teams, like deep in these rebuilds, there can be the most painful version of it, and there can be a slightly less painful version of it. And the quarterback quality really informs that. Like, do you want to be the Cody Kessler-Browns No, I think no. Emphatically. And so even if the rest of the roster is like in its infant, infant stages and it's hard to necessarily square with a quarterback that you've paid, does that make it all a little bit more tolerable for everyone as they come to work every single day? I get that as an argument. That's my answer.

1:09:24And I think there's been a lot of talk since he signed and since they traded away Waddle that it's like, oh, what is Malik Willis supposed to do? And I feel a little bit bad about that, but that's what the money's for. Like from an organizational standpoint, if I'm the Dolphins, this is a guy with upside who gives us something to evaluate. Lord knows where it can take us. I think it makes everybody feel better about coming to work. And I assume it makes Dolphins fans more excited to watch this team than if this was Jacoby Brissett and Gardner Minshew like Arizona. Yeah. Like, yes, I would rather have Malik.

1:09:56It's a perfect comparison. I would rather be like, OK, I don't know if this money is going to be well spent, but at least it's more interesting than giving up. And so, like, I'm fine with it from that perspective. And it's not the most fun situation for Willis to try to make an impression in. But that's what the 67 million dollars is for. Yeah. They moved on from next year's at post June one. It would be 25, 26 million against the cap. They would save nothing, but there wouldn't be any more dead money. It wouldn't incur. And they could save 13 million if they cut him in 2028. In 2028. Yes. And so I think, and I don't think you're in a position with this sort of contract, and we've talked about this, where if you're bad enough to have a number one pick or the number two overall pick, you can pull the trigger on a quarterback.

1:10:35You can easily do that if you want to. And so I don't think it precludes you from doing that. And if it does work out and you're paying him$20 million over the next three years and he's giving you fairly high-level quarterback play, you're getting return on investment with that contract. And so I do get it, even if it seems kind of misaligned with the overall ethos they brought into the offseason. quarterback salaries are in such a place where you see 67 million dollars and you're like that's a crazy price this has to work out and i'm just like i don't think so i don't think that's true it's similar to the justin fields contract from last year yeah right and they the jets have moved on and it's a decent you're paying you're still paying justin fields this year but you're not paying him an amount where it's not prohibited exactly there's there's nothing it's preventing you and if you're the dolphins just throw it on the pile of dead cap charges like whatever well next year they have fewer of those.

1:11:21I think that's part of it. Even though already.

1:11:27Over the cap page is laughing at me. As I said, they have fewer of those. They already have$57 million in dead cap next year because the Tua contract. What a f***ing disaster. We got to clip out you being moved to laughter by the defense cap situation. All right, speaking of Tua, let's get to the Atlanta Falcons. This offseason, hired Kevin Stefanski, kept Jeff Ulbrich as the defensive coordinator, essentially sat out of free agency. Jawan Taylor, one year, five million after losing McGarry, I think is actually a pretty smooth move, but that's really all they did. They're 31st in cash spending this year.

1:12:00That'll go up with the London extension, but for the most part, this team is in a holding pattern. Are you buying or selling? Oh, and the draft. They had no draft picks, which is why I didn't write anything down. Avian Terrell in the second round, Zachariah Branch in the third round. It's one of the more eventful or uneventful off seasons for any single team. I think that's purposeful. are you buying or selling the Atlanta Falcons offseason? I'm buying it in the sense that this is what they should be doing. Yeah. You know, their teenager got the credit card and ran up a bunch of debt that they didn't know about.

1:12:33And then the adults got back in the room and were like, holy shit, we can't, this is crazy. We got to fix this. And so I don't blame them. Johnny got sent to military school. I don't blame them for handling it this way, but I'm selling them as a team that I should care that much about. Like clear, like their goal is to just get through this and get their books in a better spot, get their picks back. And, you know, hopefully you've got a foundation for Kevin Stefanski. But like, I'm, I'm selling them as, as somebody that's going to factor into this 2026 season. I mean, like the best case scenario for this Atlanta team is that they win the worst division in football and lose a wildcard game.

1:13:14and that's like the very, very best case scenario. And that's not that interesting to me. I would make an argument that that's not the best case scenario for like the long-term health of the franchise. Yes, okay. I just mean best case in terms of wins and losses. Best case scenario for them is that they're competently bad and are in a range to try to draft a quarterback next year. I think your best case scenario is that you compete for a division as a proof of concept team, but I actually think you might benefit more from being a 6-11 team that stumbles into a quarterback next year is exactly what's in my notes.

1:13:45Absolutely. So that's where I sit with this. They have a ton of cap space next year. I think this is a everybody's slowdown. We're going to see what we have and then we're going to move into next season. I think that's what it is. The only issue is, again, you get back into draft capital if you have to draft a quarterback next year in the top 10, which I do think they will be in the market to do. The idea that they've given up on Michael Pettix already, I'm sure some people would find that flippant and too quick. It's a new regime. That's what happens. It's a new regime for a guy that can't stay healthy.

1:14:12And so I think that they will be in the market for a quarterback next year. The only thing I'd say in terms of how they could have handled this offseason better, could you have maybe thought a little bit harder about Kyler as a multi-year option as a solution to quarterback? But there's like a—Stefanski has a real history with Drew Petsing. I think that offense and Kyler's kind of misplacement in that offense, I think that's probably enough to turn them off from that idea. And I don't know if Kyler even goes there. I think Kyler's always going to Minnesota where he has a better chance. I was going to say, Kyler probably wants to go to a better situation for himself.

1:14:44So, and listen, I understand that two is not the most exciting option. Two is not the most exciting option when you're paying$53 million a year. Two for a million bucks is kind of like, whatever. I mean, like, this is fine to survive one season. Yeah, I won't be surprised if the Falcons are a watchable team. Yes. Like, Kevin's a good coach. And they, I mean, they still have Bajon. They still have Drake London. Kyle Pitts had a really good season last year. Again, I think Jawan Taylor as a solution for moving on from McGarry. I think Jawan Taylor is going to be, again, Elijah Wilkinson, admirable job last year.

1:15:14Jawan Taylor, another one of those players, at$25 million a year, no thank you, at$5 million a year, perfectly acceptable. So I think they got enough on offense to be okay this year. I'm also really excited to see Jeff Elbrick coach this secondary specifically. The secondary is incredibly fun. You got two Terrell brothers now. Billy Bowman and Xavier Watts were so fun last year. Jesse Bates, one of the most underrated players in the NFL. A lot of fun players back there. I don't know what that means for the Falcons' win-loss record, but I'll be checking in on that on NFL Pro as often as I can. I had the exact same thought while looking at that group.

1:15:53I was like, all right, I can get on board with this. I think that could be a really fun collection of five guys back there. And the front is, we'll see, right? Like the James Pierce thing is its own conversation. There's a very good chance he doesn't play at all for them this year. At the very least, I would guess some sort of lengthy suspension is coming. But Jalen Walker, I think, showed enough last year. And I think there's enough pieces for them to be competent. I really like what Jeff Ulbrich did. I think them keeping Jeff Ulbrich was the right decision for Kevin Stefanski. And so this is going to be a year where can you just be, again, a proof of concept team, where going into 2027, when you have money to spend and draft capital again, are you in a decent spot?

1:16:32And I think they can be taking everything into account. They're doing the right thing. It just means that they're slightly uninteresting in terms of like the landscape of contenders. Yes. And so there's not a lot to buy or sell, but I am whatever little nuggets we can get, I'm buying them as much as you possibly can, I guess. All right. That is all we've got for the rebuilding teams. We'll be back with our second bucket of teams next week, which we are calling the middle class. Very much looking forward to that. I really enjoy doing these shows. Can't wait to dig into the final three of them. For now, that is all we got.

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